Arsenal’s late heroics at Newcastle and peerless Palace beat Liverpool – Football Weekly

17:24Nedum Onuoha:Agent Nketiah.

17:26Will Unwin:Yeah.

17:26Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, genius from Arsenal, this is going to get them the title by a point. But what a finish at the end. Composure, quality, talk about confident strikers needing those moments just to kickstart something. And for Palace to show that having gone down, a lesser team would have probably just accepted the point at that stage. but to go back to show again that you can create something and Liverpool fell asleep let's be honest getting a little bit of space but yeah incredible for Palace incredible what they're doing it'll be interesting to see how they manage things with the European games coming up if they can get that balance because I'm not sure the squad's as deep as it could be I think it was against Liverpool they had the same start in XI apart from Jeremy Pino in for Eze from the FA Cup final it shows great consistency if you consider the amount a turnover in players at Premier League because this summer.

18:22Nedum Onuoha:So they've got that consistency so yeah, it'll be interesting to see if they can balance it perfectly with Europe. Maybe being in the Conference League might help them a bit with lesser quality opposition but Steve Parrish might not agree.

18:33Barry Glendenning:I loved how Anketiah was like, this is what I do when the ball first went in and then after the VAR check his real emotions came out because that weight was agonising and God, it was so tight. Naidam, what did Palace manage to do? It's a stretch just how they blew Liverpool away but they were really much, much better. What did they do that no one else has managed to do?

18:51Will Unwin:It's a great question. Thank you so much. We've seen Palace beat Liverpool, is it two of the last three times? Or is it three times in a row? Because they've beaten the Community Shield, didn't they? Yeah. Obviously overall from the panel shootout. But Palace, as a side, they're a team that are very, very comfortable, like absorbing pressure. You know, you can go up against them, but they have the belief that they can stand there. And it's like they don't get bored of it. But then you know full well that they've got a massive transition in them that will put you under pressure. Because I think it was a year ago when they played, I think it was City or someone like that, Glasner was talking about how his side are like top in the league for sprints and so on.

19:23Will Unwin:And you think, well, how would that really work out when a team is always in a low block? Because everybody goes when they need to go. So the way that you play against them, they frustrate you and they almost drag you to a point to where you think you have to commit more bodies forward, but that's playing into their hands and their belief commitment. And you mentioned the same side being picked again. That again is a huge strength. I think at times we get drawn into the conversation about you need depth, you need depth, you need to be able to rotate, so on and so forth. For them, they're like the exact opposite of that point.

19:50Will Unwin:You know exactly who the player is going to be. You know exactly how they're going to play. And they know that with those around them as well. And the confidence and belief that they have is very much there. So going up against Liverpool, they've beat Liverpool recently. They've beaten Man City in the FA Cup final. They've beaten loads of teams. This unbeaten run is remarkable, by the way. It's absolutely remarkable that they're on. So they have no doubts about their style of play being robust enough to be able to get wins against anybody. and the chances they created against Liverpool's side, who this season, as Will said, they've had a lot of late wins.

20:18Will Unwin:But their late wins have felt a bit different, say like Arsenal's late win yesterday, because it didn't necessarily come with a great performance. So you knew at times Liverpool obviously had the right players for those big moments, but they're also getting lucky with one or two things. But against a side like Palace, maybe you weren't going to have that look and they didn't have it on the day. So you had to give Palace a ton of credit. They definitely deserve it. And to go back a year to be a historian, they didn't win their first eight games of last season this is like a remarkable thing in my mind because I remember thinking are Palace going to go down last year and then fast forward here they're in Europe and they're the most confident and just you know settled side arguably in like the whole league so yeah fair play to them and are we going to talk about Liverpool or do we just do it from the Palace standpoint

20:59Barry Glendenning:I was just going to say Nadim is it a stretch to call yourself a historian by going back a year I don't I mean I'm not listen within this it's very modern history

21:07Will Unwin:in 2025 it is I'm very much a historian I'm very much a historian for saying that Yes.

21:11Barry Glendenning:I suppose as someone who potentially hosts a podcast specifically about yesterday, actually a year, it's eons, it's eons ago, isn't it?

21:18Will Unwin:This is ancient history talking about a year ago with Glasner Palace.

21:22Barry Glendenning:You can do some Liverpool, of course.

21:23Will Unwin:Yeah, the Liverpool thing. I'll just be, I'll talk about Slott. Slott's comments after the game about one player decided to be more offensive than, you know, thinking about defence and not taking the draw and so on. Why mention one player, but then not say the player's name?

21:37Barry Glendenning:For people that don't know, just give us the context.

21:38Will Unwin:You were saying the reason they lost the game is because in the defensive moment, one player was thinking about trying to win the game. So he's trying to go forward. And that's what left the gap for Nketiah to score the goal, which then meant that Liverpool lost the game. So it's a really specific thing to mention without being specific about who the player was. It's almost like he sent you on this mission to try and figure out who could I possibly be talking about. But it is Frimponga at the back post. And in fairness to him, I think he did get back in positions. It wasn't like he was at the halfway line or anything like that.

22:07Will Unwin:But I was doing a show yesterday and someone made a good point as well. The goal comes because Kerkers decides not to kick the ball forward with his right foot and instead kick out of his left for a throw-in. With all due respect, in the 90-whatever minute playing against Palace, a throw-in defended is not what you need to be doing anywhere in your sort of defensive third. So it's a series of errors, consecutive errors that lead to goals, not just that moment from the play that he wants to mention but remain unnamed. I'm not really on board with that. I don't see the angle at all.

22:34Barry Glendenning:Sure. And I mean, he did sign for him, Pong. he should know he's quite attacking. It wasn't even that bad. It wasn't even that bad.

22:41Will Unwin:That's the thing.

22:41Barry Glendenning:It's great for the title race, Barry, isn't it? We said it on Thursday. It's great that, you know, they don't go on this massive march and now people can sort of see the potential holes in Liverpool.

22:51Max Rushden:Yeah, I think the form of Ibrahima Kanata is a concern for them. I think Arsenal have had a more challenging set of fixtures to get the season started. What do we know? Five, six games in? Six games in. I think Arsenal have had the more challenging fixtures, and they're only two points behind. So I won't lie, I expected them to slip up against Newcastle, but they got the job done, and that's a massive win for them. And if they hadn't capitalised on the defeat of Liverpool the previous day, I think it would have been very deflating for all concerned with Arsenal. but they did capitalise eventually, got there in the end, and they're in a very good position.

23:40Barry Glendenning:They are. I tell you who isn't. That's Manchester United, and we'll start part two with them.

23:49Max Rushden:Scotland has natural beauty in abundance, but beyond the stunning landscapes, it's a fertile ground to build, grow and succeed, filled with people who are ready to push boundaries in the pursuit of breakthrough ideas. That's why today, Scotland is a dynamic hub of opportunity across growth sectors. From clean energy and life sciences to digital technology and space innovation. Scotland. For the head, heart and the spirit. Discover more at theguardian.com forward slash brand Scotland. This message was paid for by Brand Scotland.

24:19Will Unwin:Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

24:39Max Rushden:Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.

24:59Barry Glendenning:welcome to part two of the guardian football weekly uh candid says maybe i'm jumping the gun here but are united in crisis brentford three manchester united one look a manchester united defeat will is no longer surprising we get pushback for talking about every man united lost like it's a huge story which happens a lot i don't know if this one this one feels significant or it just feels mad you know that amurim hasn't won back-to-back games since he got there in almost 12 months and and they were just comprehensively the second best team here it's

25:31Nedum Onuoha:almost as if manchester united are now a very mid-table team and that they win games at home against your burnleys and your chelseys with 10 men and they lose against brentford and teams like that because the oaks teams are better than them because united with that squad etc will finish about 12th and that might be the stage that we're at with united i must say on positives i really like that kit yeah black shirt yellow shorts yellow socks that is lovely yeah but no it is not the thing is we've had him he keep you know we all talk about the system and the information he's like oh when we lose it's a system when we win no one mentions it when they lost and the whole point in this system is that you overload in certain areas at no point do they see any of that or have done really since he's arrived the system doesn't seem to be working and any great coach would be able to adapt to the plays he's got and maybe tweak it but that doesn't happen instead you sort of end up these mediocre performances on repeat defensively i mean shocking the first goal and the second i mean how on earth that ball is just let's go to the top chase score and how on earth chargers like to chest the ball down for the second is absolutely mesmerizing but i mean i'm not a former premier league defender so maybe someone else on the panel can discuss that but no no nedham's crying sorry but it looked like do you know it looked

26:50Barry Glendenning:I thought he'd fallen asleep. I thought he'd fallen asleep. He couldn't face another discussion. He couldn't face another discussion about 3-4-2-1 and whether it were.

26:59Nedum Onuoha:The problem is that obviously there's not much coming out of United about negativity for Amarim because, I mean, the usual problems, who can replace him, blah, blah, Southgate. I mean, if Southgate replaced him, one of the people Ashworth was considering who they then sacked after they got Amarim. The problem for United is if they do sack Amarim, which I think is unlikely, then Jason Wilcox's position really should be under a lot of pressure for backing him, for doing the recruitment that has left the squad very top-heavy, not dealing with the problems in defence and midfield. And so Wilcox can't really turn around and go, we need to sack him because he then has to look at himself and go, well, maybe I'm a slight problem as well.

27:38Nedum Onuoha:And so the problems may just continue for as long as Amerim wants to stay around.

27:45Will Unwin:Is anyone surprised they lost to Brentford after winning the game last week? is anybody hands up if you're surprised no hands up okay yeah I think we're in this really funny place with United to where like you know when they win two games in a row they will celebrate it something I never thought I'd see associated with United under any of their managers in the Premier League era so it is strange and I think they have a squad that's capable of you know being able to do it but as Will was saying some of the defenders in some of those moments like to be honest the one that really sent me the most and it's disappointing to have to say this about somebody who literally has represented the country so well for so many years.

28:19Will Unwin:But that Harry Maguire mistake from the first goal where Thiago's running behind, one of the first things you get told from a very young age, if there's no pressure on the ball, you cannot try and step up. John Henderson had as long as he needed to. And I think we just saw the week before with Brentford, I think possibly against Chelsea, where he played a long ball through to... He did the same, yeah. Yeah, I think with Charlotte to score or something. So that's something that they're going to be looking for. So to try and step up there, but then also then have to try and chase somebody back when you're already going in the wrong direction.

28:46Will Unwin:and that's not great. And I think some of those individual moments are essentially what's going to be costing them. And also the mystique's not there anymore. You know, teams have a genuine belief that they will get points against United, whether it's home, whether it's away, it doesn't matter, whoever's playing. Well, these are the flaws, we'll try and play into it. And yeah, I was looking at the fixtures before, I was not falling asleep. So they've got Sunderland at home before the international break, which that feels like a trap game in itself, doesn't it? Because if Sunderland win that, it's chaos.

29:14Will Unwin:but then also like United should win that and then you go into National Break and talk about it for at least five days before England play but the fixtures after that Liverpool away Brighton at home Forest away Spurs away Everton at home don't see two in a row coming there either to be honest which is somewhat of an alarming state of affairs for where United are right now

29:33Barry Glendenning:you're going to reference Baz the guy who still hasn't cut his hair the haircut guy he's his five games the poor bastards they ain't winning

29:42Max Rushden:those five in a row that's for sure

29:45Barry Glendenning:look Thiago's got five and six like his finish was brilliant for the first goal and I loved Barry the third goal like the speed of the break Yarmuluk is so good at it and just the way and I get some kick that ball so hard that it went everywhere like an old plastic football

29:59Max Rushden:and then ended up right in the middle of the goal yeah it was brilliant counter-attack weirdly um Naidem has highlighted Harry Maguire's mistakes and Amorim is one of the he's a coach who regularly takes off central defenders during games. It was Harry Maguire he took off and left Matthias De Ligt on. I thought Matthias De Ligt had an absolute nightmare of a game. He was so bad, and yet it was Maguire who was replaced by Lenny Uro. The counter, Brentford break at speed. Yarmouk plays the ball to Matthias Jensen, who advances. I think he kind of just shot because Matthias De Ligt was backing off him and he didn't really have any other options.

30:46Max Rushden:And he just thought, oh, to hell with it, I'll have a pop. And yes, it's fizzed and swerved and swazzed its way past by Inder. But for all the movement of the ball, it still went into the middle of the goal by Inder, who had an alright game by his admittedly not great standards, probably should have kept it out.

31:10Barry Glendenning:Do you know there's an interesting point, Nadim, that I think Michael Richards made on Match of the Day just about the number of, not formation changes, that stays the same, we know that, but the number of different positions players are playing them. A, taking centre backs off, which feels weird because not many managers do it, but also, you know, you're left centre back, then you're left wing back, then you might be right centre back, or you're playing in the 10, then you're wing back, then you're back in the 10. And so you can't get any rhythm, right? Even if you are able to play all those positions.

31:37Barry Glendenning:If you're only doing one for 10 minutes and then one for 15 minutes, I know he's chasing the game. But that seems quite obvious.

31:43Will Unwin:I'm an interesting position here because I may have to go against that take.

31:46Barry Glendenning:Okay.

31:47Will Unwin:No, please do. I will say

31:50Barry Glendenning:you corrected me incorrectly about Xavi Simmonds' position when I looked at the number of times he'd played left and in the 10. so we called him we called him a winger well you called him a winger I'll have to check the tape I don't know if that as a historian

32:06Will Unwin:as a historian we can do this if you want sorry Professor Inouye

32:10Barry Glendenning:anyway do carry on Derek do carry on

32:12Will Unwin:yeah in regards to United and the changes firstly like the defensive changes just don't feel right because as a defender playing in a game usually if a sub's happening you never need to look to the side to see if it's you that's coming off because usually if you're coming off you're either injured or you're having an absolute horror show but to do it the manager obviously thinks there needs to be some level of freshness back there but I would tend to disagree because you know those guys like could you imagine like he gets to like the 60th minute and Van Dijk's coming off for I don't know who they've got available now you know to try and

32:42Barry Glendenning:Gomez or something like that

32:43Will Unwin:yeah to try and freshen up the defence it's the type of stuff that you just don't see but he generally believes in it and it's funny to think that given the fact that you know there are three defenders back there already do you really need to be having the rest and so on I don't get that part and also in terms of the the changing positions and so on. I think coming towards the end of a game when you're chasing it, like all cars are on the table. You can, the manager's going to do whatever. It's not the true structured nature of a game in itself. And he's just trying to do something different. So I don't think it's a case of needing to get settled because at this point it's more or less just the kitchen sink being thrown.

33:15Will Unwin:And if you happen to be playing left wing, you happen to be playing left wing. You know, we've seen times for United where Harry Maguire's playing up front. Is he disappointed when he only plays 10 minutes up front instead of 20 because he doesn't have enough time to establish himself in that position? probably not so you know it is what it is it serves its purpose in that moment and I don't think the players coming off if they lose will be disappointed they didn't get longer to stand in a certain position because they probably had that for the previous 60-70 minutes but as you said some of the substitutions and the time in which he does it they might seem very clear to the manager Amorim but I think for other people it very much feels a little bit unconventional which isn't great when you're losing you know one in two games whatever it is the run that he's on at this moment

33:55Barry Glendenning:Just before we end this, and we haven't praised Brentford enough and our apologies, Nathan Collins should have been sent off, Barry. And VAR took four minutes. And everyone can see it's a red card.

34:05Max Rushden:Yeah, Brentford were 2-1 up. Nathan Collins gave away a penalty by tugging Brian Aboumo's shirt. It was a clear denial of a goal-scoring opportunity. The ref awarded the penalty correctly, didn't send him off. Then VAR decided to intervene and see if he should be sent off. so Fernandes is hanging around waiting to take the penalty takes four minutes to arrive at the wrong decision and the decision they arrived at was it wasn't a denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity because Mbwemo wasn't in control of the ball how could he be in control of the ball he had a big Irish man hanging out at the back of his shirt he couldn't get to the ball properly so that was ridiculous and then some excellent shithousery from Keith Andrews who I think this is a statement win for him, even though it's only against a bad Manchester United team.

34:56Max Rushden:You know, he's a young coach trying to build a plane in midair or rebuild it. He decides, oh, we'll delay it even further by sending on some substitutes. So, Fernandes had five or six minutes to think about what he was going to do with the penalty, took a bad one and Keevee and Kelleher saved it.

35:14Barry Glendenning:Yeah. To Stamford Bridge, Chelsea won Brighton 3. Worth saying, Will, if you're a Brighton fan, apart from perhaps Palace, winning at Chelsea a team who have taken 15 players and staff since Todd Bowley came in the joy in that away end you know when they score in the 92nd and then the 100th minute

35:30Nedum Onuoha:they looked so happy yeah the business of football sort of desperation to copy models from elsewhere and see how it works it's an interesting take I mean it shows on the pitch that it's not always the straightforward solution as Manchester United and possibly Chelsea at times will tell you but again Chelsea two weeks in a row where they've given the opposition a massive advantage. I appreciate split-second decisions, but I always think that it's better to have 11 men on and be a goal, obviously a leveller, and previously maybe a goal behind. But I don't understand why you can't make that decision and think, well, just let him through.

36:06Nedum Onuoha:We'll see what happens. And then after that, changed the game completely. Chelsea dominated, 60 % session, and sort of went the away. Brighton, Danny Welbeck, the master. Last season was the first time he'd scored 10 in a season. He got a bit of criticism at the start from the manager this year and has come back and started getting the goals. A veteran of the game and happy to take the criticism and come back. Great finishes. I like De Kuyper at Club Rouge as well and so I'm really pleased that he's slotted in quite quickly. It's always a bit of a step up from the Belgian league but he's looked really good.

36:43Nedum Onuoha:uh so yeah really good for brighton again well you know they've made sort of proactive changes to their hierarchy this summer as well recently and if club always sort of progressing and moving in the right way so really pleased i'm really pleased you know chelsea solutions to throw money at things and you know a lot of talk now about mareska's job being a bit in doubt which you know after a couple of defeats big game against benfica this week playing jose's benfica as well

37:08Barry Glendenning:which makes it even more fun doesn't it i mean welbeck gets better and better how will he good will he be in 20 years time that header was so good across from Minta who is a really exciting player isn't he do you think the vibes are off at Chelsea because as Will said they were just so dominant in this game and they had a lot of injuries as well you know they've got a lot of defensive issues Fafana Toysin Levi Colwell as well obviously Cole Palmer's not there and they were as cruising as you can be at 1-0 before that red card

37:39Will Unwin:I don't know if it's case the vibes are off but you know I think it's the last three results haven't been anywhere near what they would have hoped for, I believe. Losing to Bayern in the manner in which they did. Chelsea are back in the Champions League. But it's not like the Chelsea that we know. It's like a younger version of Chelsea. I almost feel like a newcomer in there as such. And then that game against United where so many people would have fancied them to go and get a result. All of a sudden you're on the back foot because of a red card. And in this game of the weekend, to be playing at home, I think that's what makes it feel worse.

38:08Will Unwin:Those are the two who are away. But to be at home and to be dominating a game of football and then to just be swarmed upon by, you know, what is essentially your feeder club almost. It was a bit awkward for the 15 people I think you were probably talking about, you know, from the staff to the players to, I don't know, whoever else is there. But I don't think the vibes are off. I think it's going to be a tougher stretch with key players being out, as you've mentioned. But they are still a very good side, which is why they were dominating that game until the red card happened. It's not to say that Brighton couldn't have had a comeback because they've done that against City and probably others so far this season.

38:38Will Unwin:But to lose in that manner, to lose late as well, and to lose multiple games in a row. It's not something that we associate with Chelsea when it comes down to patience over the last decade or so, even with these new owners. I think Maresca is going to be feeling the pressure and needs to find something different. But unfortunately, even if he runs out of players, he still can't go in that special dressing room and bring in the likes of Sterling Di Sassi. They're very much unavailable, aren't they? So you just have to wait until January.

39:04Nedum Onuoha:And Maresca has allowed Brighton to take advantage because against United, it was defensive substitutions very quickly against Brighton again, defensive substitutions very quickly, to then just say, well, right, we're going to try and protect the lead, which against top-class opposition for quite a long period of time, you know, the weekend again, I just think you're causing yourself a lot of problems when you've got quality attacking players, you actually can't, even with 10 men, put a bit of pressure back. And I think trying to absorb it all is just so difficult at the top level for that period.

39:34Nedum Onuoha:You know, 10 minutes, fine, but for that length of time, I thought it was quite negative for Maresca.

39:39Barry Glendenning:Yeah, another interesting non-penalty when Gusto kicked Minter in the face.

39:43Will Unwin:And it wasn't given, but it'll even itself out, I'm sure.

39:48Barry Glendenning:An interesting question from Gordon who says, Are some managers' jobs, for example, Chelsea and Man United becoming too toxic? A Glasner or an Iriola would be crackers to go to United, wouldn't they? I mean, the same barrier could potentially be said at West Ham, although on a slightly smaller scale, I guess. They sacked Graham Potter on Saturday. Apparently, they decided to do it two weeks ago. They waited until he'd done a press conference, as far as I could tell about swapping his face with the one pound fish man and others and then sacked him and then Nuno was already taking training on the Saturday afternoon um West Ham can confirm Graham Potter's left the club results and performances over the course of the second half of last season and the start of this season have not matched expectations it's hard to disagree with that Potter said I'm incredibly disappointed to be leaving West Ham particularly without being able to achieve what we set out to achieve at the start of our journey in East London I do acknowledge the results have not been good enough up to now.

40:37Barry Glendenning:I mean, it's no surprise, is it Barry, that Potter has been fired?

40:40Max Rushden:No, absolutely not a surprise. The owners and the hierarchy at West Ham had to do something, not least because they're taking a lot of heat themselves from fans, arguably more heat than Potter was. They have to be seen to be being proactive. So I'm not surprised Potter has been sacked. I am surprised that Nuno has agreed to take the job. because I think if he waited, something better would come along. Having said that, West Ham's biggest issue in terms of conceding goals is they just cannot defend corners. I think that's something Nuno will be able to sort out reasonably quickly. He may even have sorted it out by tonight, Monday night, when they go to play Everton.

41:30Max Rushden:and if he can do that I've every confidence he'll do a pretty good job at West Ham he can't do a much worse one than Potter I think Potter was averaging exactly a point a game over nine months so I am surprised Nuno took the job but I suspect he will be pretty decent

41:49Barry Glendenning:Do players care, Nathan? I mean, as simple as if the manager likes you, you care and if they don't, they don't or if players go we're not doing very well it'd be good to get someone new in they're just like I mean, is the WhatsApp group just like

41:59Will Unwin:oh well here's a new person uh do players care i think the ones that were closer to him will care but i think in terms of the general feel around the place like you know when you're on the pitch and you're seeing fans leave the stadium quite early because the team's not doing so well and maybe it's the tactics maybe it's the training you know you can't you can't escape those things because you know for us like we watch them once a week or whatever like they're training together for this whole time so they know whether the vibes are good or they're bad because sometimes they will leak into the training ground.

42:27Will Unwin:And when it feels like a chore to be coming into work, that's when you know managers probably need to be changed and so on. So I think there will be some level of disappointment if they like him on a human level. But in terms of results, they're probably all aware of the business of football and how it can't stay that way because as well with fans and stuff. If a fan doesn't like a manager and they see a player, they'll probably tell the player they don't like the manager, which then puts the player in a position to where, what, am I just going to argue for him? Say, no, no, he's actually brilliant.

42:50Will Unwin:Don't worry about the fact we're averaging a point a game and you guys are all leaving early. Like everything's actually fine. I think you can read the situation, you can understand the critiques, the criticism, and you find out very early whether you think it's going to work or it's not. And unfortunately for a post-op at West Ham, it just never seemed like it was going to be working from an early stage, whether it's to do with, say, almost like a personality trait or the fact that they thought it would bring excitement, but then they weren't really scoring many more goals and defensively they felt just as bad as they were before under Lepetegui.

43:15Will Unwin:So as a player, you care a little bit in terms of the person because you do know them and you probably wish them well after giving the opportunity to play. but then also you probably care more about the person that's going to be coming in because what does this mean for you because now you're talking about your future if Nuno comes in and everyone's like oh maybe Nuno will be playing really defensive and he'll hit us in transition he likes this type of profile of player how does this affect me and as you said that was a an interestingly quick turnaround of manager yeah you don't really have much time to grieve the last person before saying well I need to make sure I'll turn up approximately an hour before training starts this week because then you'll see look this guy's really keen he wants to do everything he can look at him he's doing extra after training oh he loves it yeah look at him he's actually standing there doing a low block hole by himself on the training pitch that's my type of player you know so yeah the future person is more important important than the past especially when the turnover is that quick

44:05Barry Glendenning:I can't remember if I said this at the live show or on the pod Barry so correct me if I did but how does this affect me is exactly what you said when I told you I was about to become a father and I was moving to Australia when I said exactly the same thing to Charlie Baker he said you'll be a great dad that was his opening gambit um it's not really affected you too much

44:25Max Rushden:well to be fair max you did show some video footage at the live show which proves you aren't a great dad so you're in fact that you're anything but and there's another story i won't tell but could which further cements the fact that you're a terrible father so let's move swiftly along

44:43Barry Glendenning:what's the second what's the second one you lost your son oh i lost him for a few minutes it was quite terrifying but you know i found him again he went down a different alleyway um the descent will of graham potter is interesting isn't it osterson's brighton you know your stock is so high chelsea possibly england then west ham it's hard to know where he'll go next after leaving

45:04Nedum Onuoha:chelsea he was sort of very nervous about his next job and he's heavily linked to leicester and had long talk with leicester probably made the right decision not to go to leicester but got to a certain stage and thought i'm gonna have to take an available premier league job here and unfortunately for him it was West Ham who I mean I think you'd read Jacob Steinberg's piece about how rudderless and desperately poorly run they've been for quite a long time so it's not obviously plenty of it will be put down to him but I think the sort of recruitment over the years has been terrible yeah I think they're still trying to recover from the Tim Steiden era of recruitment where it sort of square pegs round holes and no real strategy but yeah I think Potter might be tempted by the prospects of heading abroad now he's seen the Premier League it's ruthless you know and picking his club very very carefully he'll have time he'll take his time and he won't rush into anything I yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we saw him rock up somewhere a bit out the way away from this Premier League madness he's sort of come to probably irritate him a little bit you know I'm sure he wouldn't have enjoyed being put up for that press conference when he was getting sats and whatnot.

46:14Nedum Onuoha:So yeah, it's a shame for him. Chelsea again went in. It was a bit strange place to be. Lots of turnover in players. So trying to create a cohesive unit was difficult and didn't get time. West Ham, you know, some good players there, but lacking in key areas. And that's been a problem for him. And, you know, once things start going against you and the fans are going against you, it's hard to pull it back. And I think he's found that. So yeah, seems, you know, not dealt with him too much, but yeah seems like a nice enough guy a thoughtful guy so hopefully he can pick himself back up I mean you've seen how difficult it was for Zen Haag after leaving a big job again he lasted four games but yeah I think he might be a bit more careful and take something a bit out of the way this time

46:58Barry Glendenning:OK that'll do for part two with apologies to the rest of the games we've got a lot to cram in so we may rattle through

47:09Max Rushden:Scotland has natural beauty in abundance but beyond the stunning landscapes, it's a fertile ground to build, grow and succeed, filled with people who are ready to push boundaries in the pursuit of breakthrough ideas. That's why today, Scotland is a dynamic hub of opportunity across growth sectors, from clean energy and life sciences to digital technology and space innovation. Scotland, for the head, heart and the spirit. Discover more at theguardian.com forward slash brand Scotland. This message was paid for by Brand Scotland.

47:39Will Unwin:Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

47:59Max Rushden:Upfront payment of$45 for three month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.

48:18Barry Glendenning:Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Fraser says, it's Maxime Esteve, the Frank Sinclair for the Generation Elf Bar. I had to look it up. It's a vape juice or something like that. A brace of own goals that the Etihad City won 5-1. Doesn't tell the whole story of the game, that scoreline, I think. Nadeem, what was your own goal record like?

48:36Will Unwin:Do you know what? I was clean as a whistle. The first like seven years of my career. Then one happened and I couldn't have felt any lower. I was like, oh my God, this is actually a horrendous feeling.

48:45Barry Glendenning:And was it a shinner? What was it? What was your...

48:47Will Unwin:It was at West Ham. Cross came into the box from a corner and I was marking someone and the two people ahead of me, as the ball was coming in, they missed it and then it just dropped and just hit my knee and gone in. It's a pinock. Oh God. So what a horrendous feeling, honestly. Especially West Ham's goal scored by. Sunderland's there ain't nobody else at home what a horrendous feeling honestly

49:14Barry Glendenning:and did a teammate did a teammate like patronisingly say you know you'll be alright

49:18Will Unwin:do you know what those ones what's worse being patted on the back or people looking like they just ignore you just leave you to suffer by yourself I feel like you just can't win in that situation I think I ended up scoring like maybe three in my career and they're all exactly the same balls just like ricocheting off you and going in and you're just wishing the earth would just like swallow you up to be honest

49:35Barry Glendenning:look at 1-1 And, Will, this was a slightly tighter game, wasn't it? But City did run away with it. So I don't know how back City are from this result.

49:44Nedum Onuoha:I think second half, they just sort of clicked into Giroud. Doku have an incredible season. Everything's sort of coming together with Doku. One of those players where he's got all the talent, but trying to put it all together in one cohesive plan as a footballer where he knows what he's doing next. And I also think now his teammates know what he's doing next, which wasn't always the case in his early time at City. and I think just City just clicked into gear a bit, played a bit quicker. And when you've got that amount of quality on the pitch, no offence to Burnley, but they don't, that these things will happen, especially when you're making a few mistakes.

50:18Nedum Onuoha:Actually, the worst mistake I've ever made was the flick on for the Haaland goal. Oh yes, so good. One of you, don't let it, one of you, put a name on it. Their own goals are really unfortunate. That's just actually a massive cock-up. City, week by week, obviously, big change in dynamic from the performance. at Arsenal and things. But yeah, I just think the quality on the pitch, if City get into that rhythm that they showed in the second half a bit more, say, I'm going to the Monaco game this week, and they should really beat Monaco, not in the great place at the moment. But I just think, yeah, Haaland scoring repeatedly, Doku looking exciting.

50:56Nedum Onuoha:Obviously, a few worries about Rodri, but I just think, yeah, there are signs that it could be quite an exciting season for City now with Evvin and Savinho looking really good after his summer, whereas he looked like he might be off-road and getting back to his best after a pretty terrible year or looking like he's got the potential to do that. So, yeah, I'm nervously optimistic that City can have a really good season.

51:18Barry Glendenning:Good for you. So Villa, that was patronising. That was like helping someone to score an own goal. It didn't merit that, Will. It was a good answer. Villa 3, Fulham 1. Really important win for Villa here, Barry. I mean, for half an hour, Fulham and Josh King, not that one specifically, looked like they were tearing Villa apart. Yeah, but they were tearing Villa apart.

51:38Max Rushden:Yes, they did. And that's why it looked like that. Josh King's a very exciting player. He's having a bit of a rough trot of it at the moment. He had his maiden Premier League goal chalked off, disallowed. I can't remember whether it was harsh or not, but it was. And he looked very crestfallen and disappointed. I think he was ruled out by Vavar for something or other. he's now been booked for simulation two matches in a row and I thought the one yesterday was a bit unfair, it doesn't really matter but it's something you don't want to get a reputation for I thought it was a penalty did you?

52:19Barry Glendenning:I know he goes the other way you don't think so Will? he doesn't need to start going down

52:25Max Rushden:I do think Martinez sort of hooked his ankle out from under him so yeah maybe it was a penalty it certainly wasn't a dive you can lose your balance you can go down without it being simulation or without it being a penalty I'd lean further towards it being a penalty than simulation but anyway as I say it is not something you want to get a reputation for because referees will be keeping an eye on you and predisposed not to give you the benefit of the doubt we spoke about Raul Jimenez's goal already really good header Then somebody at Villa flicked the switch and they got a much needed win. Ollie Watkins got a confidence boosting goal.

53:08Max Rushden:Morgan Rogers, having been the subject of some mockery and derision from his own fans during the week, he played well. John McGinn's pretty reliable. He scored a good goal. And Emi Buendia came off the bench and made a couple of good contributions. interestingly he replaced harvey ellery who did the square root of bugger all while he was on the pitch so um he hasn't hit his stride yet at villa but it's still early early doors isn't it

53:41Barry Glendenning:yeah i mean there's nothing something so great as a fan to score two goals so quickly because you're just still celebrating it's like this this could go on forever this is so exciting um billy says is it time for sunderland fans to dust off our passports yeah they won one nil at forest former Sunderland hero Nader Manuha is here are you ready for the Europa League or the Champions League I mean a great victory slightly controversial goal

54:07Will Unwin:yeah I think the as far as decisions that probably didn't need to be made this weekend I think that one from the referee was probably right up there but then in some ways I thought Forest were good overall but also look how badly they defended the set piece it's really interesting that there are four players at the back post surrounding one of ours I wonder what could possibly be happening next. You know, you want to have a little sense for those moments. But yeah, Sunderland doing well. It's something that, you know, I'm very, very happy with it. And also, I didn't expect it. With all due respect to them, the squad that I thought they were bringing up, I thought if they don't make a few signings here, I couldn't see them getting many points, to be honest.

54:41But instead, they're robust.

54:44Will Unwin:Their goalkeeper's doing really well. The defence is solid. The midfield's got a great engine to it. They've got good ability to score goals. They're good in transition. And they've got depth. like Traore coming on rather Broby coming on it's not something that I thought we'd be seeing this season but it's something that does make sense in the moment so yeah I think they are probably going to win the league probably the FA Cup definitely and next year I'd imagine they'll be in that draw for the Champions League and so on the mega draw coming in pot four but Sunderland are for now anyway all the way back I don't mind it at all because it seems like it makes sense the points that they're getting, the way that they're playing and it doesn't feel like a fluke.

55:22Will Unwin:Like it was a tough game going away to Nottingham Forest, but they played in a manner which they needed to. They've got someone in Xhaka who, you know, has got so much experience and even the way, like listening to him talk after games is really good because he doesn't pretend it was something that it wasn't. They were really good, they suffered, but we're learning how to do this, we're learning how to do that. So if you can talk to the press like that, imagine how he talks to his teammates and brings out the best in them. So I'm all aboard the Mackham train and hopefully they do something good in the derby as well because then that could be like proper vibes through the roof, going to win the league, going to win it all type territory.

55:53Max Rushden:Nadum, can I ask, most of the players who got Sunderland promoted aren't really getting much of a look in on the first team now. Will those who are still at the club be really pissed off over that or will they just accept that that is their lot in life?

56:12Will Unwin:I think it depends how the manager has spoken to them. I think if the manager hasn't said anything and they've been completely pulled away from it, then you would be really, really disappointed, especially if you can sense that there's not going to be any game time for you at all. So there will be a level of disappointment in there. But if they do have to go somewhere in January, they're coming from a place where they're in the Premier League now. They're technically a Premier League player. So the options that they have could be better than, say, they would have had if they were still in the championship.

56:37Will Unwin:So, yeah, there's some disappointment that always will exist with people who help a side get promoted, for example. But then it's a tough argument to make that somebody, and some of these players have never played in the Premier League before and haven't really played to the highest level before, if they're saying, well, I should be playing, I think the argument stands up in the Championship but probably doesn't in the Premier League which is why they're unfortunately in the position that some of them are in.

57:01Barry Glendenning:First one, Wolves 1. Wolves so close to getting their first win. It is their first point of the season. It would have been vintage Dr. Tottenham will. But Jao Pelinho, like Clark Kent, looks puny, actually absolutely ripped when he takes his shirt off. got an equaliser late on probably a fair result the Tottenham were better in the first half Wolves

57:20Nedum Onuoha:better in the second yeah I mean I think you look at the positives of Wolves that you know Prairie with zero points on the board change things at half time really positively and it made a big difference and you know that they deserve to score and you wouldn't have really criticized if they'd gone on to win it you know it has you know plays look like they're starting to settle but Prairie made the point in that you know they they had a lot of players arrive late in the window played zero games went off into actual duty and things like that and so now is the point, a bit of confidence after the Everton win Arias looks a good player defensively looking a bit better Sam Johnson in net, seems to be an improvement as well, so yeah really good for them for Spurs, not their greatest performance overall, a bit one dimensional at times, really upset that the kudos goal was disallowed because that Bergfall assist would have been absolutely incredible so nice but again you know you live and die by recruitment and getting Palina in so many important contributions already this season you know and if I was ripped like that I'd probably take a book in in the last minute after an equaliser so

58:27Barry Glendenning:no I was thinking I was thinking you can't take your shirt off and it's a winner you know get the ball get back there could be one more chance he's missed the chance I think show you're ripped another time

58:36Nedum Onuoha:wait and see what he does when he scores a winner in the last minute

58:38Barry Glendenning:well no absolutely right balls out Palina we look forward to that But 2 Ellen Road leads to Bournemouth 2. Will, you were there as well. So tell us all about this game in 60 seconds. And apologies, because there weren't really any duds. Normally, over a weekend, there'll be a few duds. Not really any duds this weekend.

58:56Nedum Onuoha:90-up minute equaliser from a bloke's teenager scoring his first goal in the Premier League. So a big moment.

59:00Max Rushden:Another rewrite for you, Will. I was out banging a beer tray with a soup ladle. Leeds really good.

59:08Nedum Onuoha:Really physical. I think probably Premier League teams that have come up learning from the mistakes of Russell Martin so they can thank him for this, that trying to outplay opposition when you've got inferior players isn't the best idea. Be tall, be physical, be robust, get in team's faces, make it as difficult as possible, really hostile at Ellen Road and Calvert-Lewin should have scored, well had three really good chances, probably should have scored at least one in the first 20 minutes, so if he can get into a goal-scoring frame of mind then I think Leeds have got a really good chance to stay it up but Bournemouth kept going, not their best game, a little bit disjointed, a little bit a little bit slow at times but again that's because leads are at them and whatnot and four goals all from set pieces which is the modern game so you know and leads just learning those things as well that the fine margins of you know switching off for those goals the the draft excluder of brennan aronson for the seminary yes really don't put your shortest player as a draft excluder so maybe he'll be out for that um but yeah just and it was just little moments of fine margin from both sides so yeah really tight game but yeah i think leads will do well if they can keep that that level of physicality and that level of aggression going because i think that can make a difference you know primarily level of a lot of talks of tactics and whatnot but actually those sort of things do make a big difference if if you can make ellen road intimidating does the um

1:00:21Barry Glendenning:the draft excluded needs to be the same size as the wall so if you're like a three-man wall you need tarik lampton and if if you know and if if the keeper wants an eight-man wall you need dan burn and that's how it works if they don't exactly tally up it just aesthetically it just doesn't it doesn't work I thought

1:00:37Max Rushden:Lord Longstaff of Northumberland scored a really really good goal in this game that has been completely underrated and overlooked I'm not saying it was Pinnock style goal of the season material but it was a really good

1:00:51Barry Glendenning:shot I thought it was a bit of a shank wasn't it a bit of a shank or is that unfair

1:00:57Nedum Onuoha:I'd like to say I did say that he had a really good game in my work in the match report my rear end but yeah and a really good sign in again good recruitment 12 million quid incredible for someone with that experience and knows what he's doing

1:01:09Barry Glendenning:and probably a six player draft excluded yeah I would say long staff that's his role next week that's what he would be no you're right I shouldn't have criticized it was a good finish well done Sean okay that'll do for today thanks everybody thank you Will thank you Max thanks Baz thanks thanks Nadam thank you sir Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove our executive producer is Danielle Stephens we will be back on Wednesday.

1:01:36Will Unwin:This is The Guardian.

1:01:45Max Rushden:Scotland has natural beauty in abundance, but beyond the stunning landscapes, it's a fertile ground to build, grow and succeed, filled with people who are ready to push boundaries in the pursuit of breakthrough ideas. That's why today, Scotland is a dynamic hub of opportunity across growth sectors. From clean energy and life sciences to digital technology and space innovation. Scotland. For the head, heart and the spirit. Discover more at theguardian.com forward slash brand Scotland. This message was paid for by Brand Scotland.