Chelsea into the Club World Cup final and England’s crunch Euro test – Football Weekly

27:01and leaving things to chance on the final match day. So big game. And this is hopefully the kind of occasion that England do relish. And I'd probably back them to edge it. But I think it's going to be very, very close. They'll be well backed in Zurich tonight. I'm going to be there looking forward to it. The Dutch will be as well. I think it'll be a cracking atmosphere in there. And let's see. And all of an England persuasion will keep their fingers crossed. I suppose the interesting thing, Barry, is if England don't make it, what the fallout will be. You know, to go from winning the Euros, getting to the World Cup final, to not getting out of your group, however difficult this group is.

27:36Max Rushden:Yeah. And I think we've mentioned before that these players and Serena Vigman are not used to being criticised. They've largely got a very easy, and there's no real reason why they should have been criticised because they've done very well in recent years. But it will be interesting to see how they react to any criticism they get if they are knocked out after two games. I suspect some of them might not take it particularly well. And what I find interesting, actually, is the... So if you look at the England men's team and the press pack that follow them, there's quite a distance between them. But the press pack that follow the women's team, they're very close to the players.

28:21Max Rushden:You know, a lot of them are friends. They all know each other very, very well. much better than the England players and the ladies and gentlemen that follow the England men's team. So it'll be interesting to see how any failure, and it would be a failure if they go out after two games, will be covered. A lot of them have never had to cover a failing England team. Some of those people who have followed the England women's team for a long time are also sort of, have had to be champions for the sport in the way that, you know, following the England men's team, you don't have to champion it because it's just everyone's watching it.

28:56I actually, I think it's a really interesting point you made. From what I've heard so far, you know, from, you know, like Susie and Tom as well, but also listening to sort of Ellen White and Steph Horton, they've not been, they haven't done it in an angry way, but they have been critical. Like I haven't heard anybody say, you know, try to sugarcoat what happened. And actually, to be fair to the players themselves, I don't know if you've seen this, Nick, they haven't sugarcoated how bad they were against France either. No, they haven't. And I think the tone has probably quite rightly been that of a critical thing, really, from the media pack in the last few days.

29:33And it almost mirrors the way things have developed on the terraces as well, or the stands, because you won't go to an England women's game and see them get booed off with sort of rabid chants and gestures and things that you might see if England men are drawing with Andorra at half time. or something like that. But I think you will hear the odd grumble if things aren't going so well and it's kind of developing in parallel. And I think it's been, I think, quite a healthy response to Saturday's game. I think that there were points that inescapably you can't sugarcoat and gloss over, but also it is not at this point a catastrophe.

30:19We've seen many occasions, across multiple tournaments, whether it's men's or women's tournaments, where the ultimate finalists or title winners lose their first match or underperform quite badly in their first match. I mean, parallel with men's football, obvious one, Argentina losing to Saudi Arabia in Qatar. So I think there will be a big inquest if it goes wrong tonight, and it might be the most difficult one that England have had to face in a very long time because of the way the media coverage around the game has grown and the way the bar has been set by Serena Beegman in the last few years.

31:03But I think it's also quite healthy in a way that the sport gets used to that kind of to-and-throw and that slightly more demanding style of questioning when necessary.

31:13Lars Sivertsen:Can I also just throw in, I'll confess I'm fairly ignorant on this subject, but I expect quite a few of our listeners are as well. France are a really good team, right? Actually, losing to France is not like a complete, massive, embarrassing slip-up. They've gotten a tough draw here with both France and the Netherlands in their group. And getting a point from that game would have been very good, obviously, but it's not a catastrophic, everyone has to be sacked and everything has to be thrown out the window type of result, even if the performance wasn't good. Yeah, I mean, I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the defeat itself.

31:47they just looked so flat or just so second best actually apart from getting it launched the open the start of the game and the last 10 minutes um norway have won both their games last top of

31:58Lars Sivertsen:group a boom here we go not super convincing but getting the job done yeah i mean what are the what are the expectations of norway i think the expectations are kind of tempered by the fact that there've been some disappointments like we have really good players on paper but it hasn't always worked out so the hopes are that they'll give a much better account of themselves than as has been the case in previous tournaments so these sort of these sort of slightly jammy let's call them that actually jammy wins are at least at least the wins are happening and it's early in the tournament and it gives them a platform to kind of grow into it properly nick we'll uh we'll leave you there but when we have heard of 30 euro mediocre pizzas 35 euros for some sun cream or whatever it was what have you been overcharged for in switzerland well i was i my life was saved last night when at about half 12 in the morning a guy from uefa came around the press room with a load of sort of hot dog sausages that clearly hadn't been hadn't been eaten by the glitterati in vip um so i i pilfered a couple of those for for three um no i've i've i've toned things down max in the last two or three days food wise because you know you get a bit excited early on and think i'm in switzerland and then you know you have a couple of rostys couple of fondues here and there and and you realize you might have to remortgage so um or have a or have a a serious begging ball going out to the accounts department um so um so no it's it's been fairly austere for me since the weekend yeah okay well we'll start a crowd funder fondue for aims we'll see see how it gets please enjoy the game thanks pal thank you uh nick ames there out in lucerne that'll do for part two i will start part three with some transfer stuff

33:58welcome to part three the guardian football weekly so newcastle united have agreed a 55 million pound be with Nottingham Forest for Anthony Alanga. What do you think of this, Jonathan? Quite interesting that they've got like Harvey Barnes and Anthony Gordon who sort of play on that side, I guess. Is that a step up in quality? I like him. I think he's a really good player and I don't think he should ever really have been sold by Manchester United. But then again, I'm not sure what they really are doing these days in the transfer market. So I won't go there for now. I think he's earned the right to maybe play in a Champions League club.

34:33I'm quite surprised Forrest have been relatively okay about letting him go as well. I mean, the price is about the same price as Gio Pedro, which I think Gio Pedro is probably maybe worth a bit more. £55 million seems to be quite a lot. But at the same time, a young winger, Elanga's only 23. So he's still got a lot of room for development. He offers a lot of directness on that side. I saw a quip that maybe this is a play to have another Swedish compatriot around Alexander Isak and keep him around. So maybe that's the conspiracy theorist there. I've got something to say about that. But no, I think Alanga is a really good player, like I say.

35:17He'll offer that directness that Anthony Gordon has on the left-hand side. I'm trying to remember who at Newcastle they played on the right because it wasn't just Barnes. Jacob Murphy. Yeah, Murphy had a good season, but I think that he's maybe got a bit of a ceiling. And I think Alanga offers a little bit more dynamism. So from the point of view of the fact that they can rotate, you know, he's still at the club. I think that makes sense. And he's, you know, younger and also can do a little bit more, I think, in terms of his directness getting in crosses in for Isak or whoever it might be up front, if anything changes there.

35:48But no, I think it's a really good transfer. And of course, there's the sell-on that I think Manchester United owed a bit of money for that. So that might ease the burdens of the failed Amazon documentary that has been talked about in recent days. Yeah, well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. I mean, I like the idea of, you know, Eddie Howe buying Stefan Schwartz and Glenn Hussain, just filling it with Swedes, just so Alexander Isak wants to stay. Lars?

36:12Lars Sivertsen:Can I offer a counterpoint? It's good when we don't always agree on the podcast. I'm completely baffled by this transfer. So this could be one of those, if he scores a bunch of goals, you can replay this and Jonathan can claim victory. But I think this is a baffling transfer fee for a player who I like in the sense that he's a hardworking guy. He's fast. You know, he brings some things. Just feel like he was in the perfect spot. I think playing for this super counterattacking Nuno Forrest was like a place that was really getting the best out of his skill set. Whereas presumably Eddie Howe is trying to build something a little bit more ambitious at Newcastle, a team that's going to dominate games.

36:48Lars Sivertsen:and I know Eddie Howe likes a good lad who works hard and he will get that but I just feel 55 million for a player who has a lot of limitations in my view is a baffling transfer fee and I'd be surprised if we got far over double figures for them in terms of goals or assists and I just think for that kind of money you can buy a lot of really good players around Europe and I don't get it at all is what I want to put in there but we will see one of us will be right and the other will be wrong and that it will be exciting to see which way he goes. Would you like the casting vote, Barry? Are you baffled?

37:20Max Rushden:No, I think it'll be a good signing. I think he's... Jacob Murphy did have a very good season last time around. I think a lot of people were surprised by what a good season he had, and I do think Alanga's a significant upgrade. Interestingly, I saw footage recently of Sean Longstaff taking a wicket. He was playing cricket, a fast bowler, took a brilliant wicket, and And he's been linked with Leeds, but he might be signed by Durham, maybe, if the evidence of what I saw is anything to go by. John Duran has joined Fenerbahce on a year-long loan, six months after moving to Al Nasser from Aston Villa for£71 million.

38:04I was slightly surprised that no one from the Premier League has gone in for Duran.

38:10Lars Sivertsen:Yeah. The detail in that, I read the stories that Fenerbahce is going to cover his entire salary, which is a big... If he's on the kind of money that you usually earn down there in Saudi, that's a big move for Fenerbahce, who don't have it. But Fenerbahce are owned by one of the, if not the richest family in Turkey. So I guess there's some money to be found there. But I do think that's the kind of deal that maybe a few teams in the Premier League, you get a guy on loan and you have to pay a lot in wages and then he'll just leave at the end of it. Maybe that's not a deal everyone's too hyped about.

38:42Yeah, quite interesting though, a player going to Saudi and coming, You know, not the first guy. Henderson did it as well, right?

38:47Lars Sivertsen:It's almost as if playing in Saudi Arabia is not a great thing to do in terms of your sporting. Well, I mean, good for the wallet, but the rest of it is kind of a bit of a nonsense. I hear from Cristiano Ronaldo that actually the level is really high. And Cristiano Ronaldo has been clear that anyone who hasn't played in Saudi Arabia are not entitled to have an opinion on how good the level is. Though it does, by his logic, I do wonder how he can have an opinion on the level of any other league that he hasn't played in. But that's a whole different logic of Cristiano. It's hard to gauge. but we have to take Cristiano at his word.

39:17Lars Sivertsen:The level is super high. Can you confirm that you haven't played in the Saudi Pro League, Lars? I can confirm I have not played in the Saudi League just yet. There's still hope, Max. There's still hope. I'm not sure I'd pass a medical, what with my leg and all, and a few other things. Jonathan, you tweeted yesterday about that. You just mentioned the Amazon documentary, Manchester United, pulling out of that. Seems like a very good idea for Manchester United to pull out of an Access All Areas documentary. Yeah, I think for everyone except anyone who likes Manchester United, it would have been an all-time documentary.

39:51Possibly forecasting their relegation this season, it would have been chaotic. And I think that is the reason that from reading the reports, I think it's from David Weinstein, that Ruben Aron and Mappéas still have vetoed the whole idea. And I think everybody else at the club was kind of pushing it along and was keen. But the manager has found sense and said, I don't think it's a great idea to film a documentary when about 15 % of my squad is pretty much on strike looking for other clubs and could still be around. And have all access behind the scenes footage of that and our current situation.

40:30so yeah I mean it would have brought in from the reports £10 million to United which apparently is significantly more than any other documentary Amazon have paid they've obviously done all or nothings with Spurs I think Arsenal Manchester City as well which surprised me a little bit in terms of the the money they would pay I think I don't know is that a good deal £10 million because it seems if United were so interested in entertaining the idea for just£10 million is that a statement on how how bad the finances are there or is that kind of like too good to turn down that money 10 million

41:05Lars Sivertsen:i think is a lot of money for united right now things have changed uh up there you know you can you have to sack a lot of tea ladies to make that kind of savings to put this in terms that jim jim radcliffe might you know appreciate yeah but i guess the key for the key problem with those documentaries is just summed up in the fact that they've gone nah because the whole thing is they're never as warts and all as they need to be to be entertaining those things i've sat down and watched a few of them with different clubs and they're always just even though they include some stuff that's that's funny they're always a little bit too glossy i find and not quite revealing enough for them to like because they because you want it to be a train wreck like that's the thing that's interesting it's not you you can only have so many shots of people like high-fiving on their way into training and like having having massages and like doing physio and just using each other's nicknames and stuff like that's not interesting like we've seen that now we want the train wrecks but of course why would clubs sign off on that well we've had we've had

42:04Max Rushden:two train wrecks with Sunderland Premier Passions when Peter Reid was in charge was a train wreck and massively entertaining and Sunderland to when I die when they got relegated from the championship because that was originally set up as a vanity project to chart their inexorable progress back into the Premier League and the footage of Charlie Metvin and his mate Stuart when the deadline day panic buy of Will Grigg for four and a half million quid and Charlie Metvin trying to suggest, you know, an Ibiza anthem as a walkout music instead of Prokofiev's Dance of the Night. So failure is brilliant.

42:49Max Rushden:The ones where clubs are doing well are rubbish, but failure is excellent.

42:53Lars Sivertsen:That is the one that's really worked and people really loved. And I feel like all the much more high-budget, high-profile ones after have completely failed to capture any of that because it becomes a huge advertising exercise and it's really boring. But I think that's the whole point, isn't it? No matter how glossy you try and make a team that's finished 15th, inevitably there's going to be a significant amount of games that they lose. No matter how glossy you try and portray that, I can't see a way in which it wouldn't have been hugely awkward for the club. Jonathan, what do you make of that Kunia is in and when will we imagine we'll sign eventually?

43:28How do you feel about their business so far and when they're at? Because it's interesting when they are linked to someone like Dominic Calvert-Lewin, which might not be a bad person to sign, but you sort of think that is sort of, you know, how far they've fallen in inverted commas is perhaps a stretch. But it is really interesting to see that kind of thing. Yeah, there was a graphic, wasn't there, of the four potential options that they could bring in up front. Jamie Vardy on a free transfer, Callum Wilson on a free transfer Dominic Calvert-Lewin on a free transfer and one other I can't recall now who the other one was but yeah not exactly that inspiring I think the transfer business has been terrible when you compare it to the other clubs I mean maybe Arsenal are the only ones who still have work to do but it seems they're progressing with Maduweke looks like they're in for Eze as well and Zubimendi's already done and it looks like Norgard as well from Brentford so they're kind of progressing things and it looks like they have things on track.

44:23City and Liverpool have basically rebuilt half their squads or certain departments of their squads with lots of verts and the amount of business City have done. So when you look at United, who need the biggest rebuild out of all of them to still be haggling about Mbomo when they've only signed one player and haven't sold anybody. You know, I think the Garnaccio thing really sums it all up, isn't it? Being told in May, you've got no place here, pack your bags, you're off, and then he has to come back for pre-season training and be shunted off to train with the rest of the bomb squad of Malisea and Rashford and everyone else.

45:00Anthony just shows that they're having trouble selling players, they're having trouble signing players. I don't see any signs of improvement at this stage. There's a month to go, but I'd be amazed if Ruben Maroon would be happy with just one signing so far now. On the documentary thing, Wrexham are touring Australia and so there's all these big signs going. you know meet the Wrexham squad or you know come down and get a signed shirt and and it's just so fascinating because all I can think is you know you know Wrexham are just sort of I know that I know they're quite famous now and I know they're in the championship but just for someone who followed lower league football in the 90s going why would anybody care that Wrexham are tipping up to play at I don't know the MCG or wherever they're playing um but good luck to them Jay says now Everton have also made moves to sell their women's team to themselves will the Premier League finally make a stand that they didn't take against Chelsea and Villa because, you know, it's Everton.

45:52Yeah, Everton have moved to make the women's team a separate entity, which will be owned by the Friedkin Group, which is Everton's parent company, which does in theory make it easy to invest in the women's team. They've already committed to spending a million on Goodison Park to prepare it for the WSL season. It does also help navigating PSR. Villa have done very similar, have agreed a deal to sell their women's team to V Sports, their parent company. Feels, Barry, like a loophole this um although we have heard that women's teams are independently run you know

46:21Max Rushden:that is a model that can work for the women's team yeah it's a loophole i suspect it isn't one that will be closed anytime soon and i be honest i don't see a great deal wrong with this uh because i think various women's teams will benefit from being run as independent entities we've seen how little regard. Jim Ratcliffe has openly said he doesn't care about the women's team. He never goes to watch them or very rarely goes to watch them. And they're treated very much like second-class citizens at Old Trafford. So I don't see this as a problem particularly. Jim says, which teams and or players impressed you most in the opening round of the Champions League?

47:04Yes, it's back. Qualification started last night. TNS drew 0-0 with KF Scandesia of North Macedonia. Paul Watson is on tomorrow's pod. You can assume he is across all of these sides. Presume this to him is when the Champions League really matters. MPs have voted to back the football governance bill, establishing an independent regulator to oversee the men's game in England's top five divisions. They voted 415 to 98 to pass the bill at his third reading in the House of Commons. The head of the vote, Lisa Nandy, told the Commons, we are doing this for you because for too long you've been treated as an afterthought at best or a nuisance at worst in a game that's only great because of you.

47:43This is for Macclesfield, for Wigan, for Bury, for Bolton, for Derby, for Reading, for Sheffield Wednesday, for Morecambe, for many, many more who've had to endure the misery of being put last when they should have been put first. MPs did vote against a proposal from the Lib Dems to make at least 10 Premier League games available on free-to-air television each season. I saw in the group Jonathan that you put out Rupert Lowe who is former Southampton chairman now reform MP saying that all these people are useless gnomes and know nothing about the game. Something like that sort of sense. If he's against it, it might be a good thing.

48:21But it's not a political podcast. But anyway, it's interesting to see what happens with the regulator. I guess until it's in process and happening, we won't really know how much power it has.

48:32Lars Sivertsen:Yeah, I saw this proposal of putting games free to air a couple of times there And I thought that's actually a really good idea. I've been thinking a lot about this. So I have an acquaintance who's far younger than me, who is a mad football fan, like talks about football every time we meet up, but he doesn't watch games. And maybe this is me referencing my one young friend. Maybe not all young people are like this, but he plays FIFA or EAFC, that's his call now. He watches highlights. He reads all the transfer gossip. You can talk about football for hours, but doesn't watch full games and doesn't go to games because he lives in London.

49:08Lars Sivertsen:And I wonder if there is a risk of like, people, as long as the stadiums are full and some Sky subscriptions are being sold, people don't care. But I do worry that we're raising an entire generation of football fans to think we don't watch games because a lot of families can't afford Sky and fewer families still can afford to go to games regularly. So the way people consume football, the way they're raised to consume football ends up being through games, through highlights on YouTube, through discourse. And I've thought a lot about what that actually does to the fandom and the culture around the game in the long term and i tend to think not a lot of good things this idea of going to your local team and that being at the heart of the local community and how we all see the game i wonder if that will just disappear and i think just little little steps to making watching actual football games a little bit more accessible for regular people would not be a bad thing and it's not a huge sacrifice for the rights holders to make 10 games a year yeah no i don't i don't disagree i mean that's interesting in comparison with cricket that you know if you have sky for example and whatever or you work in it you just you sort of in a bubble where you presume everybody has it but that lib dem proposal seemed

50:17Max Rushden:very half-arsed and just a typical example of an mp using sport to try and gain cheap popularity points you know who's going to pay for these games who's going to recompense the clubs who's going to recompense Sky and TNT. You know, each game costs about£5 million. Who's going to pay that money if they're on Channel 5 or ITV for free? Who's paying for them? What games will they pick? Blah, blah, blah. These are all questions that the Lib Dems don't seem to have factored in. While that's all going on, you've got the urgency of the situation is kind of summed up, isn't it, with what's going on at Morecambe.

50:56You only need to look at a club like Morecambe. and if you look at the fall of Morecambe now into non-league, you only need to look at a club like that and also the issues that a team like Gateshead had with the council to see really, is the government really that bothered about helping these clubs or is it more of a, as Barry's put there, kind of like a point-scoring exercise? I think there's a separation between the Lib Dems wanting these free-to-air games and I think there is a genuine, not necessarily for all MPs, but I think there is a genuine feeling that a regulator is a really good idea.

51:27I think I mean that is not universal but if I look at the people who think it's a good idea and the people who are against it the people who are against it tend to be a vested interest people in the Premier League I think the idea that you can you know we can have some control about who owns who gets hold and owns a football club you presume the regulator can only help and if it can't help then yeah it's a waste of time but that is that is the idea well like Rupert Lowe

51:54Max Rushden:who we spoke about he he thinks only people who work in football should work in football rupert low appointed sir clive woodward as a performance director at southampton and they got relegated that that is the same rupert low who's now well maybe he's convinced himself that by appointing a rugby coach as southampton's performance director and getting them relegated I'm proving his point for him, I suppose. Alex says, hi, Max and Barry. Writing for a bit of life advice after hearing your chat about Jonathan Wilson's wedding, one of my best mates who's been a long-time listener, and I should mention a diehard City fan, was supposed to get married this summer.

52:33He asked me to be groomsman last year, but over the winter, I found out he's actually been married for the past two years. They had a, not to someone else. That was my first thought. They had a private ceremony with full wedding attire and photographer and only recently let us in on the secret. There won't be a wedding now, but we're still going ahead with a stag party. I've chosen to be supportive. It's not about me after all. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit sad. There won't be a proper wedding. I too, like Barry, would have liked to have bought everyone's curry for the night and partied until I witnessed one of the great wonders of the world.

53:02So my question is for Barry. How would you have felt if you'd found out Wilson had secretly been married for two years? And do you have any belated wedding wishes for my mate Brad? Thanks a million.

53:12Max Rushden:I'd have been very surprised if I'd found out Wilson had been married for two years. I'm very surprised Wilson's been married for two weeks, if I'm honest. And the current Mrs. Wilson is a lovely lady who appears to be in full possession of all her faculties. So I wouldn't worry too much about... There's hope for everyone. Yeah, certainly give me renewed hope. I wouldn't worry too much about not getting to be a groomsman because my one experience of being a best man and the groomsmen who were involved, It's just hard work. You're just fetching and carrying, trying to sort out snags with regard to people's accommodation, that sort of thing.

53:53Max Rushden:And you, well, I suppose groomsmen, you don't have to worry about a speech, but you do have to worry about being able to put buttonhole flowers on lapels, which is trickier than it looks. And, well, Brad seems to know what he's doing, so he doesn't need my good wishes. Stag do two years after the wedding, seems to be. it's still a weekend away. Yeah, I mean, I never want to go on another Stag do again. Wilson's was one of the best I've ever been at and I want to leave it there. I'd like a weekend in somewhere very quiet on my own. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jonathan.

54:32Thank you, Max. Thank you, Lars. Thank you, Max. Thank you, Barry. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove and our executive producer is Danielle Stephens.

54:46This is The Guardian.