Dan Burn and the pantheon of great headers, Fifa’s peace prize and more: Football Weekly Extra

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30Phil Foden finishes and Jeremy Dock who's brilliant setting up Erling Haaland. Chelsea are held in Azerbaijan. Carabag aren't quite the carrier bags everyone thinks they are but still a disappointing result for a side who are impossible to work out. Game of the night in Bruges 3-0 with Barcelona. Victor Osserman gets a hat-trick with the help of the handball. Or why is no one listening to me? We'll look ahead to the Premier League this weekend. Man City Liverpool stands out while Spurs Man United has crisis clacks and for someone written all over it just like last season. And champions elect Arsenal go to the Stadium of Light.

0:57There's FIFA's I can't believe it's not the Nobel Peace Prize. questions and that's today's guardian football weekly on the panel today barry glendennig welcome hi max from the racing post mark langdon hello hi max and good morning lars iverton hi max bjorn says dan burn best headed goal this year this decade uh stew please can we have a minimum 60 second expert analysis from barry on dan burn's header how does that sit in the pantheon of exquisite headed goals van persie ronaldo asprea uh barry i mean what it was just such a the game wasn't fascinating it was hard to know which was the most interesting game to start with barry but just the moment it left his head how is that gonna how do you curl the ball with your head yeah it was a really wonderful head a really well worked free kick kieran tripier swung it towards the far post well into space it wasn't particularly near the far post uh voltamada and somebody else blocked the defenders while Dan Byrne ran around the side.

2:02And I think he slightly took the gloss off what was a truly excellent finish by just saying afterwards he decided to head it as hard as he could because he did curl it in. I don't know. I can never remember if it's fade or draw that golfers use. That would have been a draw there, Barry. A draw. Okay. Wonderful, wonderful finish. Then you could see him when he was taken off, showing the other subs how he'd done it, miming his header. It was tremendous altogether. There's a lot not to like about Newcastle, but I think Dan Byrne is one of the things it really is okay to love about Newcastle. He seems like a top bloke.

2:46He loves playing for them. It's his hometown club, and I think he couldn't believe his luck when they came in for him when he was at Brighton. I think there was a time, was it last season when he was habitually being left trailing in the wake of far more quick attackers that we were writing him off and saying he was far too slow to play in this Newcastle team or maybe even to play Premier League football but he's proved his detractors wrong and yeah that was a sensational goal really really enjoyed it Mark we were having this conversation yesterday I think about Mickey van der Ven about goals that you just don't often see you just go that does how does that work and i've i've just watched that header so many times and i mean i think it's the same question to barry i just want to talk about it more i can't think of it i can't i'm trying to think of other headers that are like that and maybe the camera angle is just perfect he's done it before in the cup final but no not quite as good i think mark i'm not sure this this feels better than that one this was a better header i think van persie's still i would say my favorite one just because it was so unusual but I think just to build on that the Dan Byrne loving I mean this is somebody that has had to go right the way down the Leeds to come back up again and you can see what it actually does mean to him to play for Newcastle to score a goal in a cup final as well for them I always feel like he's vulnerable when he plays left back just always feel you go on the winger get at him and you'll beat him and some have i think he had a tricky game against arsenal earlier on in the season but he actually does the job fairly well um and he's got himself into the the england squad and with set pieces becoming increasingly important in both boxes to have somebody that strong in the air so tall so powerful i think it helps you a to defend them but b also to score goals um as well so yeah there's not a huge amount to love i think about sort of the the champions league as a whole really because it is just money grabbing but actually to see dan burn um reveling in in the atmosphere of a big champions league night i think that is something to um keep us warm through these winter months i'm gonna correct myself i just realized dan burn is a lefty isn't it so bending it to the left so that would be a phase I was thinking that.

5:10But then again, when you're doing it with your head, it becomes, but this is me being biased because I'm righty. In the pantheon of great headers, I feel like bringing the Scandi bias, I have to mention Henry Clarkson against Bulgaria in Euro 2004, but fine, let's just put that in there. It just occurred to me that I don't buy this that he said, I just headed it as hard as he can. I just think he wants to dial the expectations down a bit. I think people saw him do that, and then they think, whoa, what can he do next? Would you also start saying, people who can do that with their feet, we will always say oh he's got a cultured left foot and he's got a one can we just say now does Dan Byrne have a cultured head is that what you would and I'm every single every single Dan Byrne header from now on I'm going to be watching closely like is he actually is this is he communicating something with this I was just wondering yes and what Mark said about how great it is to have an extra tall guy on the pitch because yeah the idea that he seemed to be too slow to do this not only is he playing regularly but he's playing regularly that left back where typically you need speedy boys uh and and having a fullback who's that big and strong means you still have two big center halves and it just gives you like extra extra aerial power here no it's great yeah and actually i mean it's a bit like we were talking about you know the art of striking a football with matty cash with chaneloglu's corner to zilinski and his finish but that the art of heading it is actually it's not really discussed very much like how actually you know there is a skill to doing this you know whether you're cushioning a header or you're trying to put one with power or put it back from where the keepers come from or whatever and so quite nice to have that opportunity to talk about one art of the game i don't know if anyone had any thoughts beyond no just does this mean we're gonna have like heading clinics with dan burn is that going to be the new sort of social media content we could have or a heading coach like next to the set peeps coach just a head and comes on for flick on so yeah we'll we'll teach them how to like there's probably something you do with your neck muscles and the timing to get the right swallows on it yeah possibly um mark did you have any thoughts beyond this moment on this game yeah i think it was important for newcastle to win they've not got an easy run in so you know if you want to finish in the top eight you definitely needed to win this game just wanted to speak about um athletic and actually um i know full um respect for dan burn who didn't call them athletic Bilbao and called them athletic club in his post-match interview so he sort of I felt that they were like they've got a lot of injuries at the moment to key players and it's really harming their chances and it's a shame because they fought so hard to get into the Champions League but particularly with Williams being out at the moment like the team just lacked a bit of stardust but it was an important win for Newcastle because like, if you look at the league table at the moment, if you finish outside the top eight, it looks like it's going to be very competitive in that playoff round again.

8:05So there will be a desperate fight for those last couple of spots, I would say. I'd say the reason Dan Byrne knew the proper name to address Athletic Club by is because Newcastle and they have this sort of special relationship, a unique bond I keep hearing it called that goes back to I think 1994 when they played each other in the UEFA Cup and apparently it's down to the fact that some athletic club fan got left behind in Newcastle and a kindly family of Geordies took him in and gave him a bed for the night and fed him and watered him and when athletic fans heard about this at the away leg athletic went through over the two legs, but the Athletic fans invaded the pitch and instead of being violent, they applauded the travelling Newcastle fans.

8:59And this has forged this unique bond between the two clubs. I think Rob Lee's testimonial, it was Athletic Club who were invited to play in it. And it goes to show how rancorous an environment football can be. that such a basic act of human kindness can result in such a strong relationship between two clubs. That's a very lovely and eloquent explanation, Barry, and something I didn't know. I just think he knows his athletic club because he has a cultured head. Yeah, that's true. Of course. Let's go to Carabao 2, Chelsea 2. Chelsea have not won away in the Champions League since 2022, and they continue to be an odd team.

9:41I guess, Lars, if you could give us some context on what getting a point away at Carabao is, because I think instantly you think this is an embarrassment. But that actually hasn't been bad, have they? They've beaten Benfica and Copenhagen so far, Carabao. Yeah, I'm still working them out a little bit because they had this brilliant comeback in Lisbon against Benfica where they were down and they turned the game around and that essentially got Bruno Lars fired from the job there. And then they followed that up by beating FC Copenhagen at home in a game that was pretty even, really. but that's two wins in the Champions League phase for a team from Azerbaijan which is great but it also doesn't give us a lot of definitive proof of how good they really are it means they're not like atrocious clearly they can hold their own but I'm still kind of working out how good they actually are but certainly this was impressive in the sense that Chelsea had more possession had more shots but they were competitive and they played with a good intensity I mean the coach Gorban Gorbanov has been there since 2008 which is not something that you typically see in non-modern football and they are a team that has I mean they're owned by one of the bigger sort of holding companies in Azerbaijan so there's a little bit of power behind them but when we're talking about sort of teams from outside the European football mainstream they're definitely minnows they're not like high-powered minnows like Shakhtar were back in the day for instance and they've been very very impressive in what they've done in the grip stage so far Mark, Chelsea made seven changes to the team that beat Spurs at the weekend.

11:12I presume you were at that game. They've made 85 changes to their starting 11s this season in all competitions, the most of any Premier League sides. I mean, it feels like a difficult number to comprehend if that's a ludicrous number of changes or how many changes you would make. There's obviously a balance between you've got to play all these games, you've got a big squad, but also it's quite hard to find rhythm, I guess, which makes Chelsea, you know, routinely difficult to kind of understand. They are. it's mainly a young team as well so I think that will bring about inconsistencies the team selection I think it's right to rotate as much as Maresca is doing you've got to remember they reached the well they won the Club World Cup so their pre-season was not usual and I think we're still trying to work out exactly what that means PSG are picking up a lot of injuries at the moment themselves and they reached the final might just be pure coincidence so I think that Maresca does have to manage that and he's got a big squad so if he doesn't rotate then players will get increasingly unhappy so I think that he's doing the right thing in rotating I thought this was a pretty poor performance from Chelsea though particularly first half and you know maybe slightly fortunate they were only one goal behind but they have got real star quality and Estevejo is it feels just like a matter of time before he actually becomes like a real superstar and he's well on the way to doing it he's making important contributions off the bench at the moment won't be long before he is really lighting up the Champions League and will become one of those players I think that become it's just undroppable for Chelsea.

12:57Philippe Sang, French TV analysis of Carabao Chelsea at half-time consists of a worst of compilation of Jarrell Hato in the first 45 minutes. Seems harsh, doesn't it? Yeah, he had a shocker. He was responsible for the first goal. He almost gave away a penalty before that was scored and then he did give away a penalty for the second. It was a night to forget for the young man. Yeah, but this is really he's come into Chelsea that maybe could have done with another year or two at Ajax but Chelsea want to bring in these players and I think that just comes back to what I was saying earlier really young players will make mistakes older players make mistakes as well but you just feel like that is part of the risk and reward of what Chelsea are trying to do.

13:51I'm not making excuses for Chelsea here, they clearly have the resources and the manpower and all this to go and beat a team from Azerbaijan but for people who are not aware like it is a trek like it is you it's a five-hour flight with an added four-hour time difference because they don't do daylight savings times they would normally be three hours but this time of year is four hours so you're doing when you're flying out there from the uk they will have flown out in the middle of the day and arrived basically late late at night and it's like it does mess around with your um having having spent a little bit of time in the sort Caucasus region last couple of years it does make mess around with your body clock a little bit and like it's not easy to just go there reset do something and go straight back again it's a genuinely sort of it's a bit of a throwback as an away trip really to to a time where zipping around Europe wasn't quite as easy as it is now and and I think they make a really interesting addition to the Champions League for for that reason and of course it's going to be even worse for the guys who have to go to Kazakhstan I guess I think Chelsea tried to stay on sort of UK times which would have brought about its own complications as well.

14:53Yeah, make it sound like they had to get the Orient Express all the way to the Caucasus there. You know, Enzo Maresca, you know, just throwing coal into the front of a steam train. Anyway, to the Etihad, Man City 4, Dortmund 1. Barry Man City were extremely good in this game. Phil Foden's goals were beautiful. The setup from Doku for Haaland was great. What did you make of it all? Yeah, I pretty much agree with what you've said. I think Dortmund made it quite easy for them, left lots of nice inviting spaces between their back five and the next line of defence for Phil Foden to find pockets in.

15:35And it's through that that he scored. Unlike against Bournemouth, City's wingers were playing out wide, sort of hugging the touchline, making the pitch big. that made life difficult for Dortmund. And then, of course, Erling Haaland was doing Erling Haaland things. I think that's 54 goals he scored now in 52 Champions League games for Salzburg, Dortmund and City. He scored his goal here and then there was one memorable occasion where he got a touch of the Mickey van der Venz and decided to just charge upfield. I think by the time he got near the edge of the box there was four or five Dortmund players around him trying to get the ball from him so he just squared it to I think it was Nick O 'Reilly who was in acres of space because all these defenders had been drawn to Haaland and he should have scored but Koble saved his shot he got it too close to the keeper but it was a very straightforward win for City although Dortmund did have chances Donnarumma had to make a couple of saves but it was a pretty easy night at the office.

16:49Mark, where's Phil Foden on? What's his on-the-plane status right now, would you say? Yeah, I'd say he's probably still more off the plane than on the plane given the balance that I think Tuchel wants in the side. I was one of those that was championing the Phil Foden on the left. I sort of hold my hands up and say, you know, that was, you know, I feel like I wasn't the only one, but a lot of people jumped off that bus pretty quickly during the Euros. I still feel like the problem was more that they had a right-back playing at left-back rather than Phil Foden himself, but clearly had a very bad season last year, almost unexplainably bad, and the fitness didn't seem to be there, and it's hard to know if maybe there was a few off-field stuff because it just wasn't the Phil Foden that we'd seen going into the Euros.

17:43And if somebody said to me, like, describe a classic Phil Foden goal, I think it would have been the two that he got against Dortmund where he picks the ball up really quick feet. And it's powerful, but also placed really nicely as well. He's got that quick feet and he seems to be enjoying football again. And he definitely wasn't doing that last season. I think he does want to play centrally and he made that fairly clear and he does do his best work in that position. But in terms of like the England question, there's a lot of players that do play in that exact same role. And the emergence of, say, Anderson sort of further back as well has just added the complications there.

18:25I'd say Bellingham would be ahead of Foden still if you were looking to play like a natural number 10. and Rodgers I guess at the moment yeah and Rodgers is somebody that's got the trust and Cole Palmer to come back so there are a lot of good players there I just hope that Foden can just continue to enjoy his football for the rest of the season and if he does that and plays to that level it makes it difficult to leave out but there's a lot of good players in that position I love the way Lars the way Jeremy Dockard gets away from I can't remember who it was for Haaland's goal it's such an extraordinary change of pace isn't it so doku is incredible he has his ability one-on-one i don't i'm not sure there's anyone better in the world to be honest just going past the man or just getting someone one-on-one down the flank there but he's never really like even going back to at the end the season before he joined man city he was a little in and out of the team uh i got the numbers in front of me now he started 13 and came off the bench 16 and it's been the same with cc the two seasons he's been there started 18 the first season came off the bench 11 then started 16 came off the bench 13 The point I'm making is that he's someone who's yet to fully become as consistent as you want him to be.

19:36I do feel like he's kind of taking some steps this season. Again, he's being used off the bench a little bit more, but I feel like his actual output in terms of real end products has gotten a little better. Three assists so far this year. And it is an incredible weapon city. It has. He is such an unbelievable dribbler. maybe he is someone who will also in the way that Haaland has benefited this season from City sitting a little deeper giving him more space to run into that sort of tactical tweak is something that probably benefits uh Doku a little bit as well and Mark just a question on Joe Bellingham at Dortmund and how is he how's he faring only two appearances so far yeah I um yeah not great well documented that maybe the Bellingham family are not happy with the minutes that he's been receiving in Dortmund and that I think caused more problems than sort of helped him with reports of his dad getting involved in sort of trying to tell the club that he should be playing more often I think it was a big step for him he's just a player that was playing in the championship because his name's Bellingham like he's just expected to be as good as Jude Bellingham straight away and that is just really unfair um to just because they've got the same surname doesn't mean they're the same player doesn't mean they've got the same potential doesn't mean he will go on to play for Real Madrid so I think there needs to be uh some patience but he wouldn't be somebody that Dortmund as those stats show that they're relying on uh really at the moment all right that'll do part one part two we'll begin in Bruges

21:14and welcome to part two of the guardian football weekly uh so brilliant game of bruise club ruga three barcelona three mark you watched this one so opened yeah i mean i had to take one for the team didn't i really barry and lars had taken the really good game so i said i'll watch barcelona and yeah i mean it was um it was the most fun i don't know if you've heard but barcelona like to play with a high line yeah and it looks so ridiculous doesn't it it does it's not whenever they can see the goal it looks so ridiculous clearly there are advantages to having a high line we know that but when they can see it was it the second the second goal i think for was first goal and you're like how is there just one defender and also like a really tiny person not that's necessarily relevant how is that possible mark um because when when bruges get the ball all of the Barcelona players just run forward and sort of you know you I think it might have been the first goal where there's about sort of seven or eight Barcelona players in just the image all near the halfway line because the defenders are rushing up and the midfield are not quite putting pressure on the ball and like it looks terrible when when it goes wrong you're absolutely right Max of course there are benefits to that and had 23 shots in the game and maybe they wouldn't have been able to have done that without putting pressure higher up the pitch but defending like that doesn't feel like you'll win the Champions League and it's caught them out in La Liga as well at times this season already lost the Classico I thought that Club Rouge were fantastic in this game because they didn't just sit back and accept their fate they they knew they would have to defend but they poured forward when the opportunities arose I thought Forbes he got the two goals set up another one uh that pace just off the right flank caused barcelona a lot of problems and vanekin in midfield sort of attacking midfield position like somebody's been at sort of bruges just hanging around and they bring in a lot of younger players he's a fantastic um footballer and really clever and intelligent and helped to dictate when they went forward what they were trying to do so um it was uh definitely the game of the night absolutely loved it barcelona could have won they could have lost at one stage i did lose um the score in my head because there was there was a penalty that that was given and then disallowed there was a goal that was given and then disallowed it becomes quite chaotic in in those moments but a fantastic game mark you main you main screened this i had like revolving highlights from all the games on the second screen and it was farcical because every time they went to this game felt like it was either a good barcelona attack and let's be fair there were a lot of those as well but every time it felt like they went to this and bruge was doing something it was the same move it was like a long ball into space off and out wide to forbes and just a pile of space everywhere and no barcelona players anywhere near it and like deep into the second half this was still happening and was there any you were watching it properly was there any sense that hansi flake was trying to adjust was trying to adapt to trying to do something or was he just going there going yeah i guess this is what we are doing in this football game like this i just think this is really extremely weird behavior by the coach it was weird and no they they didn't try to change even though bruja clearly worked out like a way to just beat the offside trap and um it did involve forbes just being quicker and so as long as he timed his run um they were always able to get in and it was quite it was an easy outboard they didn't have to play amazing football to just create chances but you are also right lars that some of barcelona's attacking play lamin yamal in the second half particularly um was devastating and his goal um what the combination play with olmo was um that that was unbelievable as well yeah that was joyous barry wasn't it yeah uh he picked up the ball skipped past two defenders to the edge of the area played a light and fast uh one two i thought it was lopez or olmo one or the other received a return pass and then just with the outside of his left boot sort of shunted it into the bottom corner it was beautiful goal i'm curious to know mark or anyone what what did you make of the club rugger winner in inverted commas that was disallowed i by anthony our own anthony taylor i thought it was a bit harsh yeah i thought it was harsh but i think it might be a foul i i agree i agree with max i i i think that i think chesney knows that he has messed up and then is able to kind of make the foul almost normally it's the other way around normally normally the attacker makes contact with a goalkeeper to win a penalty um it was sort of reverse of that really where Cesny's Cruyff turn um goes wrong and then he um I think he panics realizes that um he's in big trouble and manages to collide with the attacking player um yeah i i thought um that summed up barcelona really uh though sloppy they were my tip to win champions league at the start but i'm going off that uh more with every match really benfica nil leverkusen one i mean benfica have nought points in their campaign which isn't very many points lars arguably the lowest number of points they could have had at this point they should have won this game five nil i think yeah the greek forward uh pavlidis who's been otherwise pretty sharp this season has had some good games.

26:38He's got, just look that up now, and he's got eight games and nine domestically and not a bad striker, but he had a couple of really bad misses in this. One which particularly insulted me because it would have been a great assist by the Norwegian Fredrik Ausnes, who was playing right back for the occasion, played a very clever ball into him that he missed, which is upsetting for me. And yeah, Benfica, Jose Mourinho coming back has not completely revolutionized them. They've had a couple of good wins in the league recently, to be fair to Jose. But in the Champions League, they have played Chelsea, Newcastle and Leverkusen, which I think is not an easy run of three games to have in the Champions League.

27:16But yeah, still no points. A hat-trick, Barry, for Victor Osserman, with a lot of help from the handball, though. I mean, you can imagine what I was going through when I got to this game. Yeah, I mean, my notes for this game our Osman diving header from Leroy Sané Cross, good goal got in front of his man and got the crucial flick and then 0-2 Osman penalty for a stupid handball and 0-3 another stupid handball, another Osman penalty. The first one the ball is crossed in to the penalty area and the ball goes off the defender's leg and hits his hand now I thought that couldn't be a handball if it comes off another part of your body and hits your hand.

28:05But I think there was two penalties given like that in various games last night. So I must be wrong. They were both daft. But again, we're talking about it. And there's a much lower, or is it higher? Lower, higher. A different threshold for this in the Champions League than there is in the Premier League. and the one in the Premier League is already ridiculous. But this one is in the Champions League, it's even more ridiculous. Somebody on the radio yesterday texted me to say, why don't they have a different penalty spot, like a bit further back for these stupid handballs? And I actually quite like that idea.

28:45You know, just like, just make it more difficult. Have it on the edge of the box or something. Because then you're going, okay, fair enough. It's a free shot. It's not, that's, that's adding something. I know as soon as you suggest anything that changes the game, I was, oh, you can't do that. but honestly one day there'll be an uprising one day there will but like until then like clearly i i don't know people aren't listening to me i can't be the one to lead it i'm in favor of the indirect free kick solution because i get that like with the first one of these in particular it feels unfair of the defender but it is also a cross that's coming in that's going into a dangerous area and he does stop it with his hand and i can kind of accept how that there needs to be some kind of consequence for that but i also just think essentially giving the other team a goal is not a rational consequence to that that doesn't make sense so can we have some kind of i don't think there should be i just think sometimes yeah can we not just i just want more indirect free kicks in the box because they're really funny i think i think that's a valid argument here yeah i agree with you or direct doesn't matter make it direct but like have all the players in the way that's fine that is also entertaining it's probably worth noting also that on the back of this defeat, which, to be fair, was entirely deserved, Ajax, like Benfica, are also on no points after four games, which is not a lot of points.

30:02They're an absolute mess. I really don't know how Johnny Heitinga is still the coach of this team. I mean, they've drawn five of the first 11 in the league. They're already eight points back in the league, and they have zero points in the Champions League. I mean, obviously he's young, he's a young coach, he's still figuring things out but i'd really be very surprised if he's still there by by january ten hog might go back oh god that might be an option wouldn't it i mean i kind of feel like he needs to take some time out of the game and chill and meditate and do some television work or something because the leverkusen thing was so bad uh that that was such an embarrassing thing for him but maybe maybe going back to ixman i'll just tv work and meditation the same thing i don't know no but i think it's a way for coaches to have like if you if you've done such a big boo-boo that like no one takes too seriously anymore tv work can be like a way of like if you turn up and you make some good points and you seem like a rational human being that can kind of be a way to get yourself back in the in the frame mark into one again they beat kyra at 2-1 um not a classic but sort of into again you know doing the business without anyone suggesting you know they'll be good but they are one of three teams with 100 record yeah whenever i watched them they're not very good um but they are getting wins at the moment yeah they're doing probably better than I expected domestically as well I was I was anticipating quite a big drop off um this season I'm not sure that they are playing to the same standards but they keep winning in the Champions League Lautaro put them in front but Kyra equalized relatively early in the second half Arad got the goal I mean it was a night of good headers because it was an it was a really nice header from him and also Schick's um header would ordinarily um you know maybe been spoken about more but because of dan burns heroics it doesn't but then it was carlos augusto that that got into the win it was a really strong finish from the edge of the box again that you would again inter should win they did win deserved to win but wasn't massively pretty atalanta won one nil in marseille barry and It's almost the Wilson scenario at the end of this game, wasn't there?

32:09So Atalanta's Ederson handled the ball in his own box. Actually, this is one that came off his foot first and then hit his hand. The ref didn't seem quite sure what to do while all the Marseille players appealed for a penalty and more or less stopped playing. Atalanta broke upfield and Lazar Sarnadzic cut inside from the right, pinged an absolute beauty into the top corner from distance. And he celebrated scoring. Marseille's players and coaching staff went berserk because they thought they should have had a penalty. and the ref finally decided, I think with the assistance of VAR, to let the goals stand and Marseille were diddled out of what possibly might have been a penalty, I don't know anymore.

33:07But this game was also interesting because Adamola Luckman, who seems to have a quite fractious relationship with Atlanta and I think wanted to leave during the summer, when he was subbed off, he said something to our old friend Ivan Juric, former Southampton manager, and Juric sort of did a double take and grabbed him by the biceps and sort of quite aggressively. And then Luckman was ushered away by some of Juric's assistants. And so there seems to be some sort of bad blood there, beef between the two of them. but yeah an interesting game. Do you think Luckman said did you manage Southampton last year?

33:53Roberto de Zerbi did find a screen a freeze frame of the handball incident on an iPad and tried to show it to the referee which I think listeners might know that sort of disrespect towards referees and that is a big hobby horse of mine it's a big problem but actually I find yeah finding the evidence on the iPad of showing it is just on the right side of comedy for me to actually be yeah that's fine it did immediately get a yellow card so so good value all around can i just say i have a feeling that the original wilson scenario was even more intricate and i think it's a it's a loophole that has now been closed because there was one season i believe it was only one season where the rules said any handball at all intentional natural whatever if it's the guy who scores the goal or the guy who assists it it has to be blown up now they've changed that now now i think it's only the goal scorer but for one season it was for the assist as well, if you handle the ball before giving the assist.

34:47And that meant you might plausibly have a scenario where a defender, for instance, handles the ball completely accidentally, not punishable handball, in his own box, then boots it long and puts someone through. Or gives it to Mickey Van Der Ven. Yes, also that, yeah. That player would then be in a position where if he scores, it is a punishable handball and a penalty down the other end. But if he misses, it's fine that that that was an actual mechanic in the rules for about one season before i think someone realized actually that's really stupid and we need to close that uh hole but that was for about one season that was a real thing uh pavos beat villarreal the other one one nil first ever winning the champions league mark for them yeah and i mean a great one as well a surprise one you know this is a team that um obviously champions league they return they've got money but in relative terms they haven't got as much as some of the teams that they're competing against and to beat I think they're around a third in La Liga at the moment certainly having a very strong domestic campaign it's an amazing result really for Paphos who twice already in this competition have been down to 10 men and have managed to kind of pick up points and now a win as well so yeah a team that I assumed would finish in kind of the bottom places maybe sort of last or one from last but i'm making a good fist of it at the moment and terrible result for villarreal and not a great night for the la league or week really for the la liga representatives all right that'll do for part two uh part three we'll do a premier league preview welcome to part three of the guardian football weekly uh we want a bit of time to talk about the uh peace prize so let's rattle through the premier league games at man city liverpool stands out mark how do you see it i don't know i might go for the barry answer there not sure uh well i think it is really really tough liverpool against real madrid probably best and most complete performance of the season um had that midfield back working again defended well didn't give up many opportunities but I still don't know if I trust them in this game as much as I would have done sort of this time last year and Erling Haaland you've almost got like one goal up haven't you when he's sort of playing at the moment you just think well he'll score and one player that I haven't given much credit to for Man City I think he's playing quite well at the moment is Nico Gonzalez who I think it's fair to had a tough time when he arrived first in in the Premier League and he's not as good as Rodri and it looked like that when he first came in but I actually feel like this season when he's been in he's played to a much sort of better level and the quality now with the City have got in midfield with Rinders and Foden and Nico Gonzalez I think that can stand up maybe to what Liverpool have got as well so I'd probably edge um towards City um just purely because of the Haaland factor I would say I also just think a big part of playing Gonzalez there is that you're not playing Chani Reinders there which I think we all agree should not be happening because then you're kind of nullifying his strengths and also asking him to do stuff he's not very good at yeah I'd be interesting to see I presume Liverpool will play a very similar side to the side that did so well against Real Madrid uh leaders Arsenal Barry go to the Stadium of Light the inevitable Granit Xhaka goal.

38:19I don't know. I have a sneaky feeling that Sunderland might do something, but maybe that's just sort of blind hope rather than anything else. A lot of people seem to have that sneaky feeling. Look, if they want to beat Arsenal, they have to score against them. That's not too many people doing that. They also have to not concede, which is also very difficult against that Arsenal side. And if they do concede, then they have to score two to win. Could they sneak a draw or a jammy 1-0 win maybe but usually if i expect sunderland to do something the good positive they invariably don't i think people are putting a lot of hope in sunderland then and it might be misguided i arsa should beat them but who who knows yeah actually i'm just trying to work out if this is the first trip that arsenal have made to you know one of those sort of cauldrons it's a it's a late kickoff isn't it you know that kind of atmosphere and um maybe i'm doing some other team a grave disservice of where they've already been i mean we've been to new castle we've been to liverpool okay i'll take it back do you want me to list the various clubs that you've dissed here now they've played away games for arsenal this season they've played away to united away to liverpool away to athletic club away to port vale away to newcastle away to fulham away to burnley and away to slavia prague so all of those teams no cauldrons according to Max Rushton they came out of the Fulham Cauldron on stage didn't they Spurs Man United quite a strong Spurs contingent on the pod today that Copenhagen result even if it was just Copenhagen felt really needed after the Chelsea game yeah discontent in the stands after the Chelsea game not I would say at the result but at the performance and the way that they tried to go about that game much more enjoyable against Copenhagen Copenhagen and not Chelsea I mean let's just hope this game is every bit the classic league final probably the worst probably the worst game of football you could ever wish to see I'm not it's really hard to just work out sort of I would say even more where Manchester United are at the moment because I know that they're it feels like they're progressing but away from home and I still would would worry about just the amount of chances that they give up um you know even against forest there's a couple of goals um and it wasn't that long ago they were getting hammered by brentford so this would be an opportunity i think for topdenham to show that they have got a creative side to them and they are able to open up um premier league teams but they haven't done it too often um this season so i'm trying to stay patient uh with thomas frank's only been 10 premier league it's not been long it just feels like every every premier league game is such an event and um it so much is spoken about everyone uh you know every single performance that um i think we do just sort of lose just the reality of kind of the fact that he's only been there a couple of months and needs to be given time but i agree that had the copenhagen game not gone the way that did, I think he would have been under big pressure.

41:33The lads at Tottenham days are well and truly behind Manchester United now because I think in the last seven meetings with Spurs, they've lost five, drawn two, which is not to say they won't rouse themselves to win this one. But I wouldn't be putting a huge amount of faith in this Manchester United revival just yet. But I, listen, I understand from Thomas Frank's perspective. I don't know for a fact that this is what's happened but listen he's taken over a team that was one of the worst defenses in the league last season they were actually the worst non-relegated defense in the leagues last season they were so bad defensively it was ridiculous and I think it's understandable then to just start we need to sort that out we need to build some kind of more solid fundament at the back there we need to stop losing the ball in dumb areas we need to pass it a little safer all of that is fine but we're in November I'm kind of hoping that they add because currently they're kind of playing with the the Paulina Bentancur thing in midfield.

42:30None of them really pass the ball forwards. So that leads you to a situation where you're kind of knocking it long a lot of the time and with no Solanke up there to kind of compete for those balls. A lot of them don't really go to anyone. Or you're playing it wide early to Kudus and Otterberg. Kudus in particular is such a great individualist. Some of the things I said about Doku earlier apply to Kudus as well. But there's a lot of hopeful long balls to no one in particular and then balls out to kudos maybe he can do something but there's not like poor chavi simons has been bad like he hasn't come to grips with the premier league yet but he is also kind of drifting around in that area just not getting the ball in any sort of it was like i actually listeners don't know this we're doing video now and i've kind of i've recently gotten rid of a lot of my hair because my sort of forelock of the civets and yeah the forelock had become like not so much a part of my hair as just like a soul patch of the forehead you know it was just the sort of thing that was there on its own, not connected to anything.

43:27That's been Xavi Simons in quite a lot of games for Tottenham this season. And it's a little bit his fault, but it's not entirely his fault that none of the central midfielders passed the ball forwards ever. So this kind of stuff, I feel like Spurs, they do need to improve. And I don't think the alarm bells are ringing quite yet, but I have noticed that there are some bells on that wall over there. And another month of the team just not being able to pass the ball. And I think we'll see the alarm bells jiggle, if nothing else. Yeah, I think Manchester United could get something out of this game.

43:58Elsewhere, Chelsea Wolves, Palace Brighton, Villa Bournemouth, Brentford Newcastle, Forest Leeds, Fulham Everton and West Ham Burnley. Any of those games? Well, it's just a really good list of fixtures ahead of the international break. You know, Everton-Fulham, that's a big game between two teams who aren't setting the world on fire. Same West Ham-Burnley, Chelsea Wolves. Who's in charge of Wolves this week? I don't even know. Could be anyone really. Probably Steve Bull. It's got to be Steve Bull, isn't it? And then obviously Palace Brighton. Those two sets of fans absolutely hate each other. Villa Bournemouth's an interesting one near the top of the table.

44:39Newcastle are rather enigmatic. They're doing very well in the Champions League. Can't string a few results together in the Premier League. and they travel to London again to play Brentford, who are up and down. So that could go either way. And Forest Leeds is another interesting one down near the bottom. So it's a real good work by the fixture generator this week. And before we go into another interlull. Villa Bournemouth for me is the one I'm looking forward to out of the rest here. Because at the risk of enraging the Villa faithful, I don't really buy the Aston Villa revival. I know they had this run of like five straight wins before they lost four straight wins in the league and all this sort of stuff.

45:29But I think their underlying numbers are kind of a little stinky. Like for the Football Weekly bingo card, like I've almost made an entire episode without mentioning XG, but here we go. Like only Burnley has created a lower XG number going forward so far this season. That seems bad. I don't like that. They've won a couple of games now, but I don't think they've looked very good. and they've got Bournemouth coming who I think are a more impressive outfit in a number of ways and yeah, big test for Villa to see if to put some substance behind the Villa revival. Terry says, I'd like to think that the Guardian Football Weekly community could get behind the campaign for Barry Glendening to be the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize winner to give it the gravitas it so richly deserves.

46:10Yes, if we don't win the FSA this year, we are coming for the FIFA Peace Prize. We have been nominated for Podcast of the Year at the Football Supporters Association. We didn't win it last year after many years of winning it and the blame lies solely with you, the listeners. Yes. So come on, sort it out. It's not a given. It's not a done deal. Your vote actually matters. We all got complacent and this time, you know, to lose two in a row, Barry, would be shameful. It would be shameful. We lost it last year due to a combination of our own listeners' apathy and reluctance to just take 30 seconds out of their day to go and vote for us.

46:50And the Football Ramble galvanizing their listenership to vote early and often and repeatedly. So, yeah, you can't let us down again. I got so complacent. I even had my speech ready when I went to the awards last year. And then it was really late in the evening. I think it was the last award they gave out. And I was actually hoping we wouldn't win because I was too drunk to give the speech. I mean, it hasn't stopped you in the past, I would say, Barry. Lots of Football Weekly family are nominated. Lucy Ward, Seb Hutchinson, Guardian Women's Football Weekly, Sophie Downey. Not the top 20, so vote for them and do vote for us.

47:35And clearly, if we go on a sort of shameless social media campaign to win, that's not embarrassing. If another podcast does it, then it doesn't count. It's pitiful. it's needy yeah yeah yeah now on the Peace Prize more importantly FIFA President Jenny Infantino announced at something called the American Business Forum which I've looked into doesn't seem like an event I'd necessarily want to be at he's creating the FIFA Peace Prize to be awarded each year to quote individuals who help unite people in peace through unwavering commitment and special actions the inaugural award will be presented on the 5th of December during the World Cup draw at the Kennedy Center for Performing Arts in Washington DC Donald Trump is expected to attend you know make of that what you will if you're thinking about people who are in the market for a peace prize at the moment a statement released ahead of his joint appearance with Trump at the American Business Forum Miami said this is Gianni in an increasingly unsettled and divided world it's fundamental to recognize the outstanding contribution of those who work hard to end conflicts and bring people together in a spirit of peace and he also said Gianni, as far as I understand, President Trump was elected in the United States of America and was quite clearly elected.

48:47When you're in such a great democracy as the United States, you should, first of all, respect the results of the election, which is interesting for a man who has stood unopposed to become president of FIFA in the last two votes, recommending somebody who supported an insurrection against a vote previously. Double thumbs up from last. I don't know, Barry, what there is to say about this piece prize. I think when Gianni Infantino succeeded Sepp Blatter as leader of FIFA, I thought he's just that bald guy who used to conduct the Champions League draw. He can't possibly be worse than Sepp Blatter.

49:26And I've got some things badly wrong on this podcast in the past, but that's right up there. That really is. He's a shameless, toadying sycophant. And look, I don't know how he can sleep at night, but probably very well in a seven-star hotel room with goose-down pillows and 10 million thread cotton sheets. So good luck to him. Just an embarrassing man who brings shame upon the sport himself and the world regularly every time he opens his mouth and says or does anything it is what it is no way to speak about barry