England leave it very late but Euro 2025 final beckons: Football Weekly

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1:41Nicky Bandini:Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Oof, England into the final of the Euros. They were seconds away from being knocked out, but let's face it, the 96th and the 119th minutes are not bad times to score. England weren't great, flat in the first half, better in the second without creating much, and we called for it on Monday. Get it launched to Adjumang, Michelle Adjumang with another crucial goal. She almost won it in extra time with a beautiful lob before Chloe Kelly, hero of the last Euros, scored the rebound after her penalty was saved. It was soft, but it was given agony for the lime greens, as the Italians have always been known.

2:12Nicky Bandini:Also today we have an Arsenal contingent on the pod So we'll discuss Jochenrez and the rest of their spending In other transfer news Is Emi Martinez going to Man United Is Johan Wisser joining the Brentford exodus And Granit Xhaka's the next man going to Sunderland Rangers start their season with a win in the Champions League Palace appeal their European relegation And the regulator is now the law Someone with far too much time on their hands Has rated our previews of last season As always we'll answer your questions And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly

2:44Nicky Bandini:On the panel today, Nicky Bandini, welcome, commiserations. Morning, thank you. Noreen Chowdhury, hello. Hello. Jordan Jarrett-Brien is here. Hey, Jordan. Morning, mate. How are you? I'm very good. Joining us from Geneva was at the game last night, Nick Ames. All right, Nick. Hello, Max, yes. Yeah, good. Luke says, has Barry taken the week off because it's coming home? Yeah, here we go again. England two, Italy one. Nick, you were there. I mean, it was a sort of another, it was very similar in a way, I guess, to the Sweden game where England didn't really turn up for quite a lot of it, but I don't know if that matters anymore.

3:15Nicky Bandini:I don't know what that means, but it doesn't matter. We're in the final. I haven't got a clue what it means either, Max. That was absolutely bonkers, wasn't it? Just another of those nights of white knuckle tournament football in a stadium here in Geneva that is brilliant for holding the noise in. So it was another full house, 26 ,000 or so, I think. and England fans and Italian fans as well in tremendous voice. And by the end, everyone is just shattered yet again for the second time in five days. And what does it mean? You can look at it in two ways, that this team has got such a resolve and certainty and confidence that they can find that way throughout the end, even though for long periods they have frankly, I mean, England were laboured all night, really.

4:07I don't really think they had a good spell or a sparkling spell in the game. There's a couple of chances first half. I think Toon had one, James, who went off at halftime. A couple of chances for Lauren Hemp shortly after the interval. And apart from that, it was all scratchy, scratchy, desperate stuff. And Adjurman comes on. And then what I loved about her equaliser, which came straight after England had had a corner in about the 94th and 95th minute and the keeper Hampton's up and we're all like, okay, this is the moment, this is going to be the one. And then she, you know, Chloe Curley, fantastic player, but she puts it in the side and it was face palms or invisible face palms everywhere.

4:57And you think that's it and then a few moments later um yeah to go back to my train of thought adjur man it gets cast almost as this battering ram agent of chaos but the composure for a 19 year old to connect a loose ball in the box a moment like that when it's on the line and the whole country is watching you two whole countries are watching you and not to snatch at it but to take the touch and pick the spot and drill it 19 years old i've not not played much that much domestic football at all except out on loan at brighton absolutely extraordinary so then the the lid goes off the whole place obviously like the subs are cascading down the byline you know the the touchline the classic scenes and then you think okay they're going to do this now on italy who i mean i'm sure nicky will talk a bit more about but were fantastic i thought they were so well jordan and played it nearly perfectly.

5:56It was tactically spot on from a team that is technically inferior. They looked out on their feet, and then fast forward, Adjumang again shows what a wonderful, subtle player she is too by lobbing against the Woodward, which was a fantastic effort. And then you think, we've got the penalty rigmarole again, you're all ready for that. And then it did take a penalty, but only one penalty, and kind of a bit of a penalty, because Chloe Kelly steps up and again just puts it not wide enough of a keeper parried she's sharp enough to rebound and then all hell breaks loose again and still trying to make sense of it are you are you coming down on the side of it's written in the stars they they still always find something or is it more they're going to get found out by quite possibly spain on sunday who are quite capable of dishing out a clinic if you're on a sort of five or six out of ten which england had been for most of the tournament.

6:54Nicky Bandini:I mean that penalty Nikki it is so soft isn't it I mean I'm I'm watching it delighted that it's been given and then I just don't see in maybe I don't see enough replays but it's one of those where you think if that if that was against me I'd be pretty I mean the Italian manager was furious and I I would have been. Yeah I don't know what to say with the penalty I think it's one of those that it is a foul if you do it somewhere else in the pitch it is a foul she is grabbing her and I do think Severini initiated the contact even though there was some contact both ways when I watch it back I think she does um it's one of those fouls that um I think a lot of referees in the penalty area in the semi-final with two minutes left of extra time a lot of them are going to go you know what it's not it's not worth it I think a lot of referees wouldn't have given it and I think a lot of referees I think any referee who hadn't given it I don't think VAR would have overturned it I don't think it would have been clear and obvious uh to the VAR booth if it hadn't been given.

7:50But I think the ones that was given, VAR was never going to overturn it because unfortunately, as much as it breaks my heart, it is a foul. I think it's really hard. It's really easy to say it's soft because I think it was soft. And I think if it had gone the other way, I think you would have absolutely had everyone in England kicking off about it. So it's completely fair to call it soft this way. But I think it's one of those that is soft and feels worse because of when it is and how it happens in the context of the match rather than because it's an outrageous call. It isn't an outrageous call.

8:23I think there is a foul there. It's just a soft one.

8:26Nicky Bandini:Yeah, Mark Lackenberg, I'm not sure who he was broadcasting for, said he wouldn't have given it because that's not how to decide a game, which is clearly not how referees are meant to referee football matches. That's not how it works. Jordan, you were at Croydon Box Park. You have our sympathies. How much beer was flying around when that penalty, when the rebound went in or when Adjumang scored? Lots of gin and tonics more so than beers, if I'm being honest. But not as much beers as you probably see in some of the men's games. I mean, the best moment of this whole game for me, guys, wasn't even necessarily the winner from Chloe Kelly.

9:03It was, and I lived in Italy for five years, it was when the Italian manager, I think it was when the penalty was conceded. Obviously, we can't hear what he's saying, but I'm pretty sure I saw him mouthed Vaffan Kula on camera and that was the bit where I was like, yep, he's lost his head here. I thought this was a really, really good game, but for maybe not all great reasons. I thought England, for large parts of the first half, were actually quite poor. I think Lauren James had a couple of half chances that she could have done better with maybe. Roosa had a poor miss. But I thought the tempo from England, for large parts of the game, was really just tepid and slow.

9:39And I was really disappointed with the lack of intensity from their play. it took them quite a long time 70 minutes onwards I noticed before they really just thought sod it as you love to say match get it launched but also get go two at the back they had three and even four at the back for way longer than they needed to Italy weren't a massive threat so they didn't need to have three or four players at the back just got you know get push another player from defence into midfield and that really annoyed me one of my favourite things probably my favourite thing in football is a great first touch and forgive me I forgot my Italian player's name who scored but for her goal that first touch is so so good and even as you're behind her her first touch as nick mentioned was really good just get it out of her feet and a great strike which is double nutmeg so when you know when the gods are with you the gods we've got another day that gets blocked by the defender or the goalkeeper so um you know the luck and the fortune was definitely with her on on that particular moment but i think for england if they're gonna win this final be it spain or germany they'll have to play a lot better because i don't think in large parts they actually played that well i think they were quite fortunate and had italy not lost their heads in that last 10 minutes there was an opportunity when a player had a chance to either run into the corner or pass it inside to two of her colleagues the player shot and it went wide and i thought to myself i'd be absolutely spitting blood if i was the italian manager because that's an opportunity where you've just got to run into the corner and run the clock down um and and then you never know i think the penalty is a clear penalty i'd slightly disagree with both of you i think it's a it's a quite obvious penalty and i think it's an example of them again just panicking and not keeping their composure and if england are going to do better in the final definitely if it's spain they play in the final they'll have to play a lot better and my final point would be that there's this whole discussion around whether serena vignan is getting a selection right or wrong because she seems to be getting it right in that she's rectifying it with her substitutions but i don't know if that can always work i don't know if that's always going to get you through because as i mentioned i don't they played particularly well until Chloe and Ajime Zane came on in that second half and changed the game and I also love how raw those two players are, Chloe and Ajime Zane feel like they're not FA groomed tactical players, they feel like they're very off the cuff, just give me the ball I'm going to do something a little bit raw, I'm going to take on a player, I'm going to be a little bit rogue and I kind of like that about those two players as well.

12:00Nicky Bandini:Noz, you wanted to talk about Ajime who has had such an impact in the last couple of games. Yeah, completely she really feels as if she's had this breakthrough tournament and just like looking at the fact like she, her debut was so recent and she scored like, is it three goals in four games or something? It's amazing. But I think especially in the context of like this issue about diversity and particularly in the women's game and also in the context of Jess Carter's experiences and racism on social media. The other day I was reading an article in The Guardian by Anita Asante. It was from 2022 and she was basically talking about the lack of diversity in the women's game and in particular the lack of black players.

12:45And it was so predominantly white. She cited loads of reasons that that might be the case. One being how white the coaching set up is in the women's game. Another one was about how WSL teams seem to have copied the men's game in terms of having training facilities in rural areas, in suburbs. And obviously those are predominantly or far more white compared to inner city areas. And then you get into a whole issue about how difficult it is for certain demographics to travel to training and travel to trials. so um and and at that time when when she and other people people sort of brought this up obviously the england team were doing really well and and they experienced a big backlash to that okay oh it's all on merit we're like why are you bringing this into it which is obviously sort of like uh really stupid headed but i think i think when you when you've got a breakout style like i think it's that thing of if you see yourself in the people who are having success if you see yourself on the pitch and becoming sort of national heroes and almost transcending the sport in some way, that can inspire.

13:57And I think that's what's particularly exciting about Adjaman in terms of like, hopefully she already feels as if she's going to be a transcendent sort of like individual in terms of game, even though she's so young and even though she's so early in her career. But like, it's just exciting the fact that this could sort of like, you could have like Lots of girls of different sort of demographics that sort of look at her and plays like her and kind of think, well, actually, like I finally see someone like me on the pitch doing it. So I think that's what I find most exciting about that. I think it's just a shame that we have to have someone like Ajman who has to be excellent and almost a star to inspire other girls to want to be in this particular England set up.

14:41I would love it to just her just to be a squad player and just not the not getting the you know the crucial goals um for that to be enough to just be able to see her on the bench for example she's a phenomenal player and she's a great talent she's doing really really well but it just feels like the bar for there has to be a a star player a black star player for that to inspire other f minority girls and and I think that's that's a shame why can't she just be an okay player and that be enough do you know what I mean for her to inspire other girls and other generations to want to be England footballers.

15:13They feel like we need this pin-up star. If she hadn't have scored yesterday, would the conversation be around inspiring other black girls, other British Asian girls into wanting to be footballers? Do you know what I mean? I feel that just the bar of expectation for inspiring other girls, for black girls, is so much higher than everybody else. And I just think that's so unfair. But you know as well as I do, Jordan, that that's always been the case. Of course. Any person of colour or any sort of ethnic minority, it's not – sadly, and this pisses me off as much, I'm sure, as it does you, being mediocre is seen as being less than mediocre.

15:53And it's this idea of – it almost relates to the good immigrant thing of you have to be exceptional and then you're accepted and then you're heroised. but if you're just at a level where, say, a white player is, then suddenly you're not one of the good ones. And I think, sadly, that's the nature of things. And what I'd hate is if you've got a situation now where you've got players who are legitimately complaining about racism on social media because of the colour of their skin and I don't want basically thinly veiled racists to turn around and say, oh, well, look at Anjiband, she is getting all the praise, which is a totally wrong-headed way of looking at it.

16:37But it sort of points to what you're saying in terms of like, why does it always have to be exceptional sort of people of colour who are heroised?

16:46Nicky Bandini:Nick, there's an interesting discussion about Wiegmann and her changes and when she makes them and when she brought, you know, Kelly and Ajermang on and whether she should do it half an hour earlier or actually you wait until, you know, the Italians are knackered and A, think, oh, we're close here and then you sort of hit them with the chaos, as Jordan called it. Because at the time you're thinking you've got to change something. I felt like I'm yelling at Vigman, like I'm yelling at Southgate. Yeah, completely. I'll talk about one of the changes first in the context of the very instructive discussion that we've just had because it's worth pointing out that Jess Carter did come onto the pitch right at the end.

17:24She had been named among the subs. She came on towards the end and, you know, it can get lost in the milestone of those late moments of a chaotic game like that but she got an absolutely incredible reception which was just a a really nice moment i think and a deserved moment and at the start of the game as well it was quite well documented the then the players opted not to to take the knee because i think they they're looking for more substantive action rather than gestures and and i think we we have to go along with them on that because they know how they feel and how the situation has affected them and yes and um the subs instead linked arms on the touchline in in you know a a visible show of solidarity so so that was a really important and good moment that you know can can get lost in the swirl regarding the other subs yeah i i mean people with like 15 20 minutes to go were definitely starting to agitate but even to start shaking things up a bit more they were toiling as as as we've all said already um but she does seem to time it well and to be fair um the game breakers came on and broke the game and i think you just have to trust that they understand how long certain players can go for they've got the data they've got the stuff like that and they they can see signs in the opposing players when their tiring which Italy were clearly I think in the last 10 minutes or so and I think yeah you kind of can only trust the managers now and judgment in terms of the timing of those subs because it's it's worked out so far quite spectacularly.

19:07It always comes to this over and over again in football doesn't it we as journalists reporters broadcasters storytellers we always come down in the end to having to fill our narratives around what actually happened on the pitch right and yeah and similar things happened um actually with the england men's team didn't they the euros when you've got goals coming out of nowhere in injury time suddenly a tournament that could have been a terrible tournament becomes an all right tournament and and i think this tournament for for england does feel like one that has been on the margins of being a very different tournament and now they could still win the whole thing and yeah that's partly the the stories we you have to tell it's partly the reality of sport and great players who have great moments and in all this conversation about Agyemang I think worth saying you shouldn't just score a goal and almost score a second incredible goal she also held the ball up she also worked for the team she also put herself she was really impressive I mean something else for a teenager but of course I feel like because we haven't really talked about it from the Italy lens and I do want to bring that into it as well because they've had an extraordinary tournament I do remember at the start of this tournament chatting with Susie and saying could they be a dark horse and I was being a bit optimistic but I didn't I didn't think they could win it I certainly didn't think that I would have been not putting them in the conversation even really to get to a final so I think the semi-final was the top of the ambitions and and ultimately they were moments away from from getting this across the line and going to the final in some ways I wonder if almost like Inter in the Champions this season where the story almost looks worse because you go to the final and get hammered almost in some ways could this end up being a happier ending for them because I think if they go to that final without Gilelli who is looking very much like she's pulled the hamstring losing that sharp end say it's Spain again Spain already outplayed them pretty comprehensively in the groups but they managed to make it scary for Spain because they had that sharp edge if they lose that sharp edge does it become something else but I do think it's a remarkable remarkable tournament for Italy um it has a bit of bittersweet for me because when I look at it and I just had this really fascinating conversation earlier between Jordan and about um representation and how much that matters I mean obviously this is going to be a huge uh sliding doors moment I think of opportunity for Italian football because this is an amount of focus that really hasn't been on the women's game probably since the 2019 World Cup in Italy and bear in mind Italian football women's football has gone professional since then but then I look at the stars of this run and yes Sofia Cantore has been magic and she's off to Washington I think she's going to be a great player for a number of years but Cristiano Diarelli is 35 Barbara Bonansea who of course scored iconic gold against Australia in 2019 she's 34 that Juventus attack all three of them were at Juventus together this season might not be part of the story at the next uh the next major tournament the next world cup so so there is a question hanging over it of whether or not this group can carry it forward with quite the excitement that you want them to and so it falls to is the italian football federation going to do everything it can to capitalize on this moment and and galvanize the movement and get more more girls and and young women involved and that's the bit that i wish i had more faith in the italian football federation in general than I do at the moment.

22:32So we'll see on that front. But it definitely has been a tournament that I think has captured the imagination more than anything since 2019, which is an opportunity at the very least for Italian football.

22:46Nicky Bandini:Meanwhile, Nick, England, this is their third major final in a row. And it's Serena Wigman's fifth in a row. I mean, that's actually extraordinary, isn't it? Yeah, she knows how to do it. She's a winner. And just even the way she answers questions in press conference afterwards, just so calmly and authoritatively, and it's almost like, okay, what are we all worrying about? She's got that edge and that self-assuredness, and also that sheer pragmatism and sort of dogmatism almost that you need. She's completely certain about the way she wants to do things and the way that England should approach these very hair-raising situations.

23:27and yeah like you know her record is completely almost unimpeachable i i think if they'd gone out last night which they almost did and by the way we haven't mentioned that that there was a massive moment four minutes before the 90 when um when when hannah hampton made a astonishing point blank save from i think it was severini who later conceded the pen if i'm not wrong and that would have sent england out would have given italy the win that at that point they deserved frankly um i think if that moment goes another way they're out and and they'll and there's a bit of an inquest about what we've talked about already some of the performances some of the lack of patterns some of the way that you know a lot of a play for me in my last few games has gone gone a bit aimlessly down the channels at times there's not been that that structure that sophistication um but at the end of the day we even gets it done and that's because she knows how to do it and it's an astonishing record and now we'll have to see whether she can go one better on Sunday and I'm going to the Spain journey game tonight very interested to see how that goes an informed Spain team that does give you a chance at the back but normally blows you away at the front against a Germany team that has you know shown a lot more doggedness in getting this far than maybe we expected of this particular Germany side and missing a few key players too so I'm off to that after this and then you know hoping to see a few signs that if England do get it together on Sunday in a way that they haven't really yet then Serena can be

25:06Nicky Bandini:lifting another trophy we haven't really touched on the most important part of the evening it was anyone else as outraged as I was to see England Italy not be white shirts against blue shirts I mean I this it really it just because you know it just takes you you're just watching it going this game could look more, every moment of it could look more spectacular than it is. And I mean, I don't know if this is, you know, biased, but I thought at least the England third kit is that or second kit is kind of nice. Like the Italy one is, it's an abomination. What are they doing? I was very sad about it, Nikki.

25:38So that kit is a deliberate choice to have a kit that is specifically for the women's team. It's a kit that was designed to, there's a kit that the men's team don't wear, the women's team do wear to give them something that's I guess um unique to them I tend to agree I don't really love the color there's a lot of um marketing waffle that came with it about it representing certain art styles and mint colors which represent the natural world I don't know a lot of that read to me like Adidas trying to flog some shirts but um what minty world are they

26:07Nicky Bandini:living in the land of Colgate what is this what is this extra Wrigley's extra world that we live in but yes it upsets me. Chris also says, should we watch the final on BBC with Robin Cowan on comms or on ITV with Seb Hutchinson and Lucy Ward? It's a football weekly split. Impossible. How do we make that choice? How do we choose? We have to get two tellies and listen to them all. Anyway, that'll do. We'll obviously cover Germany, Spain on tomorrow's pod but that'll do for part one. Thanks Nick. You have a nice day. Thank you mate. I'll try. Good stuff. Fnick Ames there out in Geneva. Here we go at the Germany-Spain game tonight.

26:46Nicky Bandini:That'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin talking Arsenal.

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28:03Nicky Bandini:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Huge news, everybody. on the 11th of September we are doing a live show our first one for two years we're at the Troxie I think hopefully not because nobody wants to come or wanted to come for two years geography being the main issue we're playing the Troxie in London we would like you and almost 2 ,000 people to come along seems ambitious how much time we got? basically two months to flog these tickets but I don't want to sound desperate it will sell fast we will have a brilliant panel, of course, and try and get in some cameos, a big half-time show.

28:42Nicky Bandini:If you are not unable to come to London, you can live stream it from wherever you are sitting, so every single person listening to this can come, basically. So just don't let us down. I don't want to be angry. I'd just be disappointed. Theguardian.com slash footballweeklylive. It will be lovely to see you all the 11th of September at the Troxie in East London. We'll put a link in the pod description. We'll put it all over the Instagram. I'll tweet about it every hour and annoy everybody. Let's do a bit of Arsenal. Nicky and Jordan are both here, of course. Are you happy with business so far, Jordan?

29:17Nicky Bandini:Yes. Yes, I am happy with what we've done so far. We've addressed, I think, some key holes that are going to be needed to be filled if we're going to win this prep down Premier League. I think Zubimendi is a phenomenal signing. I think he might actually prove to be the better signing in a weird way than Xokarez which is he's all but done, I think he's a lovely player that I think will just bring the dynamics into our game that I think we need in the middle Mascara deal I think has been done I think that's a future proofing signing for the next couple of years but it's a good backup there Kepa I'm not a big lover of but I think as a number two, I think you're going to struggle to get a better number two goalkeeper than Kepa I would like a left winger that's me being a bit greedy we've spent like a billion pounds already but I would like a left winger because I'm not convinced that Martinelli and Trossard are the answers if the bar now is to win the title of the Champions League I don't know if you do it with one of those two as you're starting left winger but otherwise I think Arsenal are looking like they're very very strong defensively we've always been good I mean defensively I think we're pretty solid I think the problem has been just creating a little bit more and having that guy that can put the ball in the back of the net in those really key moments across the season.

30:32And also depth. It's four competitions. It's a long season. I think the depth, I think we're seeing addressed by Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. I think they know there's a lot of games coming this season. So I think that's something I'm really pleased that we have, that we've addressed. But I think mentality as well before Nicky comes in. I think mentality is equally an issue as just transfers. We can buy great players. That's all well and good. But I think the Arsenal mindset has to really change somehow. They have to really go to somewhere this season that have not been before if they really want to get the job done.

31:03Yeah, I think mentality and winning is such a hard thing to pin down in football, isn't it? Like I've heard a lot of this from people in the reporting of the Gokre Shining, oh, is it mentality monster? It's everyone's favourite phrase, mentality monster coming in. But I mean, he's certainly used to winning, isn't he, from sporting. And of course, Madweke now arriving as a world champion from Chelsea. I mean, that feels a very odd way of framing it. But hey, they did just win something. I think I'm the same as Jordan. It's hard not to feel good about this summer if the Gookarist deal gets across the line.