FA Cup magic for Mansfield and VAR is missed at Villa Park – Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30or was it just a bad performance? And even still, was it worse or considerably better to have a weekend without anyone drawing lines and super slow-mo replays of non-handball handballs? The pitch at Grimsby was good fun, but not fun enough for Wolves to lose. And then basically every Premier League side won. Also today, a brilliant day in the Scottish Premiership title race. Celtic coming back from two goals down at Kilmarnock and Rangers coming from behind to beat Hearts. It's tight up there. There's Igor Tudor to Spurs, Thomas Tuchel staying with England, a director of football going in goal and someone's run the numbers of Barry's chicken-killing youth.

0:59We'll answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

1:08On the panel today, Barry Glendening, welcome. Hi, Max. Not for the first time, I want to skip straight to the end. Like all the listeners. Dan Bardell, hello. Good morning. Welcome, John Bruin. Hello, Max. Let's start then at Turf Moor. Burnley 1, Mansfield 2, the only real upset of the FA Cup fourth round. I think, John, in the last round of the FA Cup, we said there's a chance that Mansfield Towns' name had never been uttered on the podcast before in its history. And now look at them. And without them, this weekend had no magic. No. Thank the Lord for Nigel Clough, who oddly did not do any post-match duties.

1:50I'm not sure why that was, but I was listening to the car radio on my way back from Birmingham and I heard an interview with someone who sounded just like Nigel Clough and then talked about how he was going to have a nice bottle of wine after the game. And I thought that doesn't sound like Nigel Clough. And I think it was, I couldn't even work out if it was Gary Crosby or Andy Garner, one of his assistants. But anyway, yeah, a great win. Is a Burnley defeat to Mansfield? does that live up to our definition of the cup of dreams as compared to well the team that sound a bit like Mansfield that I'm often accused of the town I'm often accused of being from Mansfield when I'm from Macclesfield I'm not sure I suppose the bigger question because we are Premier League eyed is what does this do for Scott Parker it was a pretty empty turf more the public not really up for this one but let's credit Mansfield brilliant result and of course the winning goal scored by Lewis Reid.

2:50Let's do the gags, shall we? A perfect day and that goal really was a transformer and it was hit. It was vicious. So there we go. There's my Lou Reid gags. That's good stuff. Yeah, I can't fit Walk on the Wild Side Inn but then you won't be surprised to hear, John, out of Lou Reid songs. satellite something satellite of love wonderful song great bowie back yes yeah yeah yeah anyway barry um it was a brilliant free kick and look mansfield took loads of fat you know like for them and we say this every year i guess for them this was the cup of dreams this was brilliant and they had their second really good result in this competition yeah i think it's as far as they've ever gotten the tournament um and again if you're expecting it to happen does it still sound count as a shock technically yes it's an upset i wasn't even remotely surprised burnley lost but they should have been out of sight by half time ashley barons providing his occasional reminder that he's still at burnley still exists he missed a sitter jackup brin larson had one hooked off the line, I think, after beating the keeper.

4:11Loom Chumé blazed one over the bar when he should have at least hit the target, if not scored. So Burnley did have chances to put Mansfield away before halftime. They didn't take them and paid the price. Burnley fans clearly aren't going to be particularly fussed. Very few of them turned up. Who can blame them? Whether or not this decides Scott Parker's fate, It doesn't really matter at this stage because their season is pretty much over, isn't it? Bar the most implausible and unlikely of turnarounds. But hats off to Mansfield. Hats off to Nigel Clough. He's played in an FA Cup final. His dad famously never won it.

4:57And he's unlikely to win it with Mansfield, but he has a better chance of winning it this season than Scott Parker. yes and you know uh i i looked up famous people from mansfield rebecca aglington richard bacon and alvin stardust i don't know if any were in attendance would be some surprised if alvin stardust was yeah yeah i was gonna say yeah since he left this model coil in 2014 dan burley made nine changes i mean there's a piece by full and i'll see on the bbc website saying that there are 183 changes in this weekend's 14 games you know hull and imps which made 10 oxford made eight But did Burnley need to make nine changes for this game?

5:37Should Scott Parker be... I mean, he's under some pressure anyway, but if you don't win and you do that, people will ask that question. Yeah, and he said that himself after the game that people would raise questions because they've been knocked out, and probably fair enough and probably rightly so. If you look at Wolves, they would have made changes as well, but they've got through, and it kind of gives their season something. I think it gives the fans something to kind of dream about, something to look forward to because they know they're going to be in the championship. For Burnley, you know, a home title to Mansfield, you get yourself into the fifth round, it probably would have done the same for them.

6:15So I think Burnley fans will have every right to feel disappointed. Managers have their reasons for making changes. There's a reason why nearly every club does it, particularly the Premier League teams and sometimes the championship teams as well. You've got to get minutes into people that don't normally play. other teams have other priorities so they make those changes but you can't get away from thinking that that would have given the Burnley fans just something this season, a glimmer of hope and now it kind of feels like they've got absolutely nothing and I think Josh Laurent was one of those changes and Burnley deserved to get knocked out for his celebration in front of the Mansfield fans, a very arrogant and cocky celebration at 1-0 up and when I watched Match of the Day and kind of knew what was going to go and end up happening in that game, I did chuckle to myself that he did that celebration and eventually he'll have been knocked out of the FA Cup.

7:04Yeah although he did sit the keeper down quite nicely I mean I think you're probably right you just when you I mean I said that is the thing isn't it beating Mansfield gives him hope but losing to Mansfield in a season that's going terribly wrong it's just that oh can it get worse and I suppose John the question is you know do you think Scott Parker deserves to keep his job at Burnley? I suppose the question would be what is the point of getting rid of him at this point in the season because, as Barry said, the fate is pretty much sealed. And the other thing is Alan Pace, who is the owner of the club, has come under a bit of criticism from fans.

7:39There's been a bit of an open war there. And do you know what? Sometimes owners like someone else to be a lightning rod for criticism coming their way. And maybe Scott Parker will serve as a probably well-paid, well-numerated human shield for the ownership until the end of the season. But when Burnley fans look back on this season, another season in which they are going down, the Mansfield loss is obviously one that's going to go against Scott Parker, who has, we all have to say, done a good job at Burnley doing what Scott Parker does. But the doubts will be, of course, of his credentials as a Premier League manager, though those in the Scott Parker camp would point out that how often has he had the materials to work with to stay up?

8:27I mean, maybe you could point to the fact that Gary O 'Neill did a very good job in succeeding him at Bournemouth a few years ago and helped establish that club. But yeah, I'm sort of anti-sacking managers apart from in one instance. And, you know, when the fate is sealed for the season, it makes it easy for a new manager to come in to have a clean break in the summer, doesn't it? rather than a series of games in the Premier League where they're losing, losing, losing, and you affect the psyche of the club going into the season ahead because they've already got to be planning for a promotion campaign at this point.

9:04To Villa Park, then Villa 1, Newcastle 3. Malaga Mag says, watching the Newcastle Villa games, refereeing, it's like watching a child on its bike for the first time without stabilizers. Adrian, surely we need some sort of video refereeing brought in after the Villa Park disaster. One quick check on a replay and they could get 100 % of decisions correct, says Adrian. We had lots of questions, of course, along those lines. I didn't think you had money for PSR, but Chris Kavanagh was a good signing, Dan, but not enough. It's just a joke. He just had a bad game. But still, it was... I mean, I don't know which decision was the...

9:36It was the handball penalty, wasn't it? They all went in your favour, Dan, but he had a bad day when he had no VAR. Yeah, and annoying from a Villa perspective that you're the right end of so many decisions, yet you still find a way to get a player sent off and get yourself knocked out of the cup. I was obviously in the ground and don't think I appreciated at the time how bad some of the decisions were. I kind of walked away thinking 11 v 11, I think Villa might have won that because I thought we were on top. Got back, watched the highlights and realised actually we were a little bit fortunate there with a few decisions.

10:11As soon as Villa went down to 10, Newcastle have got the kind of energy and application where they can make that work for them. Villa are a team that notoriously struggle when they come up against 10 men, but in the second half, as soon as Newcastle got one, you just felt that they'd go on and win the game and they did. But Chris Kavanagh put in one of the most disaster class performances from a referee I think you've ever seen. And we've seen some bad performances from officials before. There was a tweet from Match of the Day in the evening saying, if anyone missed any of the action, tune in to Match of the Day this evening.

10:43Chris Kavanagh missed nearly everything that was in the Villa game. So I'm assuming he tuned into the FA Cup edition of Match of the Day. Yeah. So the big question, Barry, is if you have VAR and that exists, that probably changes how you referee a football match. And I don't know how many games in a championship, if any, Chris Kavanagh's doing, but you're not used to refereeing a few from now on. Yeah, mainly. He's at Mansfield next week, yeah. But, I mean, the handball inside the box is the most egregious, isn't it, Baz? because it's so far in the box. And the thing is, he saw the handball. So it's not like Dean handled the ball.

11:22Luca Dean, who should not have been on the pitch because he should have been sent off in the first half, another challenge that Kavanagh saw but didn't penalise accordingly. So he saw the foul. If he hadn't seen the foul, you'd go, okay, he missed it, fair enough. But he saw it but thought it was outside the area. And that beggars belief. and the linesman was nearby. He presumably also saw it. I guess they're conditioned now to have, well, they think, well, I have VAR as a safety net, so if I make a big boo-boo, it'll bail me out. But obviously VAR wasn't there this season or for this round of the Cup.

12:03The only thing I'd say is, I don't think his were, while his decisions were terrible, I don't think they were the worst of the weekend. I think the worst of the weekend came in the Burton-West Ham game when Burton were denied a clear, absolute Stonewall penalty. Oh, that penalty. When the score was still nil-lil. And I think if they'd got that penalty and scored it, I think they'd have won. But we'll get to that game later. For all the bad decisions that went against Newcastle, at least they won the game. So it didn't affect the outcome. Yeah. Which is not to say, you know, on another day, it could have easily affected the outcome and probably would have.

12:43But it was a shocking performance. The only thing I'd say for those who are saying, oh, well, this shows why we need VAR is that was one of 14 games that have been played in this round of the Cup. Most of them were fine from a refereeing perspective. There were a few errors, but we'd have got a few errors as well, I'm sure, if VAR had been on the case. Yeah. And actually, John, it's a sort of case in point for VAR if what it did was said, that's outside the box, that's a red card and that's offside, and it did nothing else in that game. You go, actually, it wouldn't take very long and we all wouldn't have a problem with VAR.

13:21You know, I still preferred the football this weekend, and I'm a neutral. And Eddie Howe actually said it is better for the neutral. It's annoying when you're on the wrong end of decisions. But it sort of showed that, you know, the mistakes are sort of part of it, really. There's been this widespread view that this was a disappointing weekend, but it made for a hell of an atmosphere at Villa Park. It really did. I was near the Newcastle fans, so their outrage was there. Of course, if you're in the press box, you have the benefit of replays. You can see the mistakes being repeatedly made. Both managers actually spoke in favour of VAR in a way.

14:01I mean, Eddie Howe obviously hedges everything he pretty much says anyway. Unite Emery just said, no, you need it to provide assistance to referees. It was, I mean, some of the decisions, I mean, the Lucas Dean one, I mean, even VAR, you know, on a coffee break or falling asleep after the dinner, you know, which sometimes we think might be going on up at Stockley Park, would have given that one straight away, wouldn't they, on second look? I mean, you know, it was vicious. It was nasty. Nick Greenhalgh, I think, was the linesman who probably needs to go to the opticians to see his spatial awareness, how that works.

14:44Because he was level with it when it was in, you know, the handball in the box, which was, as you say, the most... Actually, yeah, is that the most egregious decision? I think the Luca Dean one was. my favourite bit actually about video replays about this game was Bezo having been sent off decided that he was going to watch the replay of his sending off on the video in the dugout before he went into the dressing room to just check to see why he had been sent off because it was almost as if he'd lost the run of himself and was confused as to why he'd been sent off I mean that was blatant that there is actually a question there of is he sent off for serious foul play in which it's a three match ban or is it Dogso in which case I think it's only a one match ban I think the official said Dogso but it was more dangerous play I think and actually Dan of all the decisions that was the worst decision of the game him flying out like that it's madness yeah reminiscent of Emi Martinez on the last day of last season at Old Trafford I couldn't I was sitting in the whole tent couldn't believe he kind of looked down and he was already gone before before it developed.

15:53I don't know what was going through his brain. He's quite a composed goalkeeper and calm goalkeeper generally, but completely lost his mind. And obviously that's kind of killed Villa's FA Cup run from that moment, even though they're a goal ahead. It was always going to be very difficult being down to 10 for that amount of time. And when your goalkeeper goes off, it feels like you have to have more of a rejig, although I guess you don't because you're still just losing a man and someone goes off. I'm going to sound bitter, and I've got nothing against Newcastle at all. I think Newcastle and Villa are in the same boat in a lot of ways financially and with the restrictions.

16:29I did think that that result maybe masked over a few things for them because I think in the first half when it was 11 v 11, I can't get away from this season thinking that their football is a little bit basic and that their strength was always their physicality and the way they pressed the more physical side of the game. because the Premier League's gone more that way generally. I feel like their strength's almost been negated. Their formation, the 4-3-3, nowadays you've got full-backs inverting, like Villa play with a left winger who plays as a left 10. For Newcastle, everyone is kind of doing the job that that position stereotypically dictates.

17:07And I just think if that had been 11 v 11, I think Villa would have got through relatively comfortably. I think they'd have gone on and got the second goal. Obviously, the first one shouldn't have stood. but I do think it masks some deficiencies in Newcastle's kind of make-up this season that they got through. Worth mentioning Sandro Tornale's second goal because it's such a brilliant ball-stayed ball strike, isn't it? Absolutely loved it. But have you got any other thoughts on this, John? I think you were there too. Dan makes a good point, actually, about the first half. Walter Marder, I thought, struggled a bit in that and there's been a few doubts about him.

17:41He did get his goal. And listen, Villa in the second half essentially was saying, come and break us down. And I think actually there, Volta Mala did show that he's more than just the big man with some lovely touches. And he's very, very good to watch when he's in that form. A player that I do like very much, Harvey Barnes, didn't have the best day. Anthony Gordon, a little bit off. But Tonali, a guy of whom there's a few questions being asked of his future. And it's the question I think Eddie Howe's asked almost every week. what's his status came through no Bruno Goumares of course for a significant amount of time and so someone's got to step up and it looks like Tonali's going to be the man good win that for Newcastle I think it hasn't been the best season really for them and do you know what it's their only chance of silverware and after last year when they enjoyed it so much winning at Wembley you know going back to Wembley again would be make the season better make it memorable and that's what we're in it for, right?

18:42Memories. Yeah, we are. And we'll start part two at Grimsby, if any of us can remember what happened there.

18:55Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Pedro just writes mud. I mean, the result wasn't what we wanted, Barry. And I sort of shame on Grimsby for not scoring a Ronnie Radford in that mud. I think there was one Wolves player looked like he'd done Tough Mudder by half time. And, you know, the ball just rolling out and stopping just off the side of the pitch. It had all the things you wanted apart from the result. Yeah, it was very nicely set up for an upset. A bad Premier League team arriving at Blundell Park. Wet, windy, freezing cold. The pitch is a barely playable bog. The mascots who accompanied the players out in the pitch looked like they would rather be anywhere else.

19:41One of them was crying. He was so cold. A couple of them were wearing gloves. One had, I don't know if it was ear defenders or they were woolly, so I'm guessing just ear muffs to keep the cold out rather than the noise. So it was, the conditions could not have been more perfect for an upset. At one stage, I think one of the Grimsby players was shepherding the ball out of play for a throw-in and it just sort of stuck on the line and eventually trundled out of play. But yeah, the mud, fair play to Wolves. I mean, it was not a good game. It was a fun occasion, but it was not a good game. I think both sides had one shot on target and Wolves happened to score theirs.

20:31Santi Bueno, Nid, Inna, Chau Gomez, Cross. that was Wolves' only shot on target. I think Gomez hit the bar as well. But yeah, it was unfortunate. It could not have been set up better for Grimsby and they weren't able to take advantage. But they gave a decent account of themselves. They did. And look, they've had, you know, they beat Man United in the Carabao when it was absolutely pelting. You know, sort of Ruben Amarin's Nadir, of many Nadirs, I guess. If you can have more than one Nadir before you write in. What about Burton West Ham? Actually, Baz, you did the minute-by-minute of this one as well, didn't you?

21:09How sad were you when there was an extra half hour to cover of this one? I was devastated, I won't lie. I was really devastated. And I was really annoyed with West Ham because they made, I think it was 10 changes. Mavropanis was the only player from the last game to be picked. They left Jared Bowen, Thomas Suchek, and Mateus Fernandes. they had the weekend off, they didn't even travel, weren't in the squad. And the players who did go out, so bear in mind, these are players who can't get in the West Ham team. They strolled around in the first half as if visiting Burton and playing this team of League One strugglers was beneath them.

21:55And that annoyed me. I'm not sure why, because I don't really care about Burton or West Ham. But yeah, I was annoyed by that. And then eventually they brought on Crescensio. Somerville, he provided one of very few moments of quality in the game, and that was enough to win it for West Ham. Freddie Potts was sent off as well for a late, nasty lunch. Couldn't really have any complaints. But Burton, they had loads of corners, loads of free kicks. In Therese Shade, they had a... long throw merchant, but they weren't able to do anything with all these crosses from corners, open play, long throws, free kicks.

22:38West Ham were just heading everything away. But as I already said, Burton should have had a penalty in the first half when it was 0-0. I have no idea how it wasn't given. It was one of those, I can't remember who was in cold comms, but they were going, oh, it wasn't enough of a barge. But it was, I mean, it wasn't even a soft barge. It was like the guy takes on his chest, doesn't he? He blindsided Jake Beasley and absolutely clattered into him and flattened him. And I don't understand why it wasn't given. So Burton are entitled to feel a bit grieved, but they could have done more, I think. Birmingham took leads to penalties, Dan.

23:17I don't know how you feel about talking about Birmingham City. It does remind me of that rivalry of someone calling Paul Hawksby on Talks Ball. and he was a Villa fan and he was driving and he got a chipped windscreen and his family with him in the pissing rain, winter's night and the guy comes up to fix the car with auto windscreens and he refused to have his he refused to have his windscreen done by somebody who worked for auto windscreen because they sponsored Birmingham City. Anyway, this was quite a good game, I thought. Birmingham Leeds, I don't know what you made of it. Yeah, first half, I would say not much happened but in the second half an extra time it was a really really good cup tie it was an open cup tie that I think could have gone either way I thought Birmingham gave a good account of themselves really and when it went to penalties I thought they might get they might get through here which isn't ideal from a Villa fan perspective but I thought they did really really well I thought that their deliveries from set pieces I mean I know most teams delivery from set pieces is good nowadays but they caused Leeds real real problems so I actually thought there was a lot for Birmingham to take heart from there.

24:27They've still got a chance of getting in the playoffs and trying to go up this season as well. So they looked in a good place to me. The pitch wasn't great. It wasn't as bad as the Grimsby game, but I didn't think the pitch was great. But Leeds get through and at the moment Daniel Farker just seems to generally be finding a way to be doing a really, really good job there. From the moment he came under serious pressure, he's just kind of rode every storm that's come his way and I don't expect them to go down. And now the Leeds fans can start dreaming of Wembley and having a cup run, which I think they'd all enjoy as well.

25:00So yeah, Leeds have got through. But I actually thought it was a really, really interesting game and really, really exciting game, end to end. Can I just say, I really enjoy the Villa v Blues rivalry. It's utter, utter pettiness. I don't know if you saw this footage, I think it was in last year, when a Birmingham fan was laid to rest. And at the funeral, the congregation were asked to sing, and they did sing, Shit on the Villa together. And it was a very poignant moment, I felt. Wonderful. It's amazing what football can do, isn't it? It brings us all together, doesn't it? I thought Paul Robinson on Match of the Day made a very interesting point about this.

25:53So this went to penalties, Leeds won. The Leeds keeper had the players' names and numbers on his bottle and which side of the goal they kicked to. But Paul Robinson made the point that the Birmingham players, they were wearing some retro kit, very nice one actually, blue with a white stripe down the middle, but they didn't have numbers on their shorts. So, working in the assumption that the Leeds goalkeeper would not have a clue what their names were for most of them, his water bottle was sort of rendered redundant because he wouldn't be able to see the back of their shirts as they walked up. I just can sort of imagine a player walking up to places of all the keepers going, Would you mind turning around?

26:39What's your name, please? Yeah, Lucas Perry. Unless Lucas Perry has an encyclopedic knowledge of all Midlands football. It's just his, it's his little skill. He knows everyone there. I did like their kit, yeah, celebrating 150 years of existence. And he made a brilliant save, actually, Lucas Perry from Adam Stansfield in the first half. And Birmingham hit the second. Jay. Yeah, sorry, Jay Stansfield. And Birmingham, I'll do that again. He made a brilliant save, Lucas Perry, from Jay Stansfield in the first half. And then Birmingham hit the post in injury time before extra time. And there was an amazing block just after that, but Leeds are through.

27:16Some of the big guns, Liverpool 3, Brighton 0. And we mentioned lots of changes, John, and Liverpool didn't make lots of changes. I don't know if Arna Slott has PTSD from losing to Plymouth last season. But the FA Cup could be some salvation for them this year. Yes, so we did. The mysterious Calvin Ramsey did come on at the end, which was interesting. Yeah, that's a good win. Brighton, that's more the story, I suppose, that we're interested in. Fabian Herzl's future becomes a little bit more uncertain a lot of discussion over whether they'd be pulled into a relegation bottle which I don't see but you know I might be wrong because they're in such bad form I think Arne Slott decided yes let's keep up the good vibes with the team selection and you know again that man Dominic Zoberslai comes through with a great goal that's just what he does Oh, it was so nice, wasn't it?