Football Weekly’s summer mailbag: AI, how transfer gossip works and more – part two

13:00Jonathan Wilson:I mean, what's interesting about some of them is when you occasionally talk to them, it does sound like they've never seen a football match. And like the end is, you know, the transfer is the end of the, that is the end of the thing. That is not a means to an end to build a football team. It is just sort of human transaction obsession. It's quite strange.

13:22Seb Hutchinson:What's the new one is that if your club doesn't sign enough players, there's a problem forgetting the fact that you already have players at your club. See what I mean? I can't believe they've not brought anyone yet.

13:35Jonathan Wilson:Nicky makes that really good point that you sort of see a footballer and you decide how good they are, and you do not countenance for that, that they could get better at football or worse at football or be put in a different system that might make them play better or worse or put someone next to them. It's literally just this is how good a person is. And if you don't spend$80 million on them, they're no good. If this player has been at your club for three years, it's not exciting. And we do get carried away with it a bit. I mean, right now, of course, the window will be whirring away. We will, of course, do all the transfer stuff.

14:05Jonathan Wilson:Once we've found out who's bought who and we've committed it vaguely to memory or Barry's put it on his pad of paper, we'll do some previews and talk about those things. We've got live shows, 1st of September at Vicar Street in Dublin, 9th of September, Soho Theatre, Walthamstow. Please go to theguardian.co.uk slash footballweeklylive. The London show is live streamed as well. Watch it wherever you are on earth and we'll be back in a second.

14:29Hi, this is Becca Moore for the Girls Podcast. All right, a quick shout out to our presenting sponsor, Apple Cash. Summer is here, which means the group chats are already spiraling with festival and summer plans. And we all know the worst part of being the one who fronts the money for the passes or housing. That's why this year we're only using Apple Cash. It's a super easy way to settle up because you can do it right in messages. Just tap the plus sign to get started. And the best part is you can spend the money you get right away anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. Every payment is secure and protected by Face ID, Touch ID, or Passcode, and your transactions are never shared on a public feed.

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15:19Jonathan Wilson:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Kelly says, Max, Barry and everyone else. I'd never listened to the podcast before the World Cup. My brother, who is an Arsenal fan, recommended the podcast to me a few weeks ago as I was struggling to keep up with so many games. Since then, I've become a devoted daily listener. Now the World Cup's coming to an end, I've decided to arbitrarily pick a team to watch during the rest of the year, which has the added benefit of helping me follow along with Football Weekly in the future. which team should I choose? So I guess we're talking Premier League.

15:44Jonathan Wilson:Seb, who do you think would be the best, who would be the most enjoyable team to follow in the Premier League?

15:54Seb Hutchinson:Enjoyable? Does football work like that? Enjoyable? I don't think it does. Yeah, it depends on the stage. So Sunderland would have been enjoyable last season because they were promoted, did better than the fans would have thought, the people thought so they're on that ride that's when it's at its best but then the expectation sets in and so you're you're done then aren't you you know i would say the other problem is did they

16:20Jonathan Wilson:say that their partner was an arsenal fan that's their brother right a brother is not yeah so that

16:27Seb Hutchinson:will play a part in it if that's the person you're going to be discussing football with so in their arsenal do you take tottenham well i don't know if that's an antagonistic angle I don't know if it is because of where the clubs have been recently. So yeah, I would say just off the bat, why don't you go and support Bournemouth, knowing that there's probably a new stadium coming. They'll probably buy a fresh player that nobody else has seen before. And you can go there and you can have the heads up on everybody else. And you can sound really knowledgeable about this player that nobody else has seen.

16:56And if you lose a game, nobody's going to bother you about it as well.

17:01Seb Hutchinson:And you'll be able to relax and enjoy your football. Good point. Any advances on Bournemouth, Barry? I was thinking Brighton for much the same reasons Seb has posited Bournemouth. It's a nice club, decent team, good, nice young manager. If they get beaten, you can go into town from the stadium and have a nice fish and chips and walk along the promenade or out on the pier. and they're probably not going to get relegated. They're probably not going to win anything, but it's nice. It's a nice team. Yeah, any advances? Go on, complete the set. Complete the B set. Come on, give me one more B. There's an airport nearby.

17:50John Brewin:As the world's living expert on B teams, it would be remiss of me to... I mean, yeah, Bournemouth is the nice one, isn't it? but I suppose they have a new manager. We'll have to see how that goes. As we've seen so many times in football, eventually the formula does break. I hope that doesn't happen to Bournemouth because I was privileged last season to see them play, I think, the best football in the Premier League, the most exciting. But yeah, although you could do, you could if you really wanted to have soap opera, you wanted to have enjoyment or maybe an element of needle, Everton or Spurs, just for that.

18:35John Brewin:What are you doing to people? But I think something could be interesting. You can't give Foist Everton on someone. Why not? You can't do that. They, how dare you, Barry? They are the team of our Prime Minister. So, you know, being in Everton.

18:51Jonathan Wilson:By now, it's always the test. Where are we? It could be Binface.

18:54John Brewin:who knows Binface is presumably a Leighton Orient fan or something like that but we don't know but I don't know but imagine being an Everton fan when it actually become good again it's a bit like being an England fan you know

19:08Jonathan Wilson:yeah yeah unless you have anything strong to say Wilson I'll move on to another question Dino says hi Max Barry and the team I'm an avid listener from Perth Western Australia I was born in the UK it was lovely to hear about the football fans in the UK struggle with the timings of World Cup matches as this is something I have to deal with all the time when watching the Premier League. Question for the panel, which is different. How will AI change the way football is reported in the future? Do you use AI when creating your match reports or scripts? Will there come a time when you'll be able to feed in the live broadcast of a football match and create a match report with analysis within seconds?

19:42Jonathan Wilson:Jonathan Wilson, is your Ronaldo piece AI by now, or is it still from your fair mind? The only time I've ever used AI,

19:50Barry Glendenning:and I'm pretty sure it would be a suckable offence of the Guardian to use AI, and quite rightly, the only time I've ever used it was I had to write this awful pitch document for something where I had to make myself sound good. And I spent two or three hours on it. And blowing my own trumpet is just not my thing. You're just too humble, aren't you? You're too humble. Obviously, I hate to speak of my humility, but they're your words. They're not mine. But I think humility is one of my defining characteristics. So I got AI to do that. Did it make you sound good? I didn't get that. I can't remember what the picture was.

20:32Barry Glendenning:I didn't get it anyway. It obviously didn't make me sound that good. But that's the only time I've ever used it. I guess there is a terrifying future when... I mean, AI clearly... I was replaced at Sports Illustrated by AI. That was galling after 11 years. Didn't even get an email saying thanks very much. They stopped replying. They just blanked me. stop replying to my emails so that's uh that's an american employee relations for you but i mean it's obviously rubbish at the minute it's totally generic based on a couple of stats i guess it could get quite good but i would have thought what you want and maybe i'm maybe i'm flattering myself here that what people want is kind of sort of the individual's take on it the sort of the quirks that you you know that individual that you know basically you know if i'm going to go if i'm a Portugal game, you're going to get a thing slacking off Ronaldo.

21:22Barry Glendenning:Yeah, I feel like I could. Could they replicate that? Yeah, I reckon. I reckon there's enough out there. But there are AI commentators. I don't want to worry you, Seb. But do you remember, Max, when we went to South by Southwest, we had to go to this dinner to Gladhad and some people who worked in AI. And it's very prominent in, say, tennis, golf, Formula One, I think. and there's AI commentary teams. I have no idea whether they're good or not. What I can tell you is that AI is rubbish at football. I've looked things up on AI sometimes. It's basically glorified Google, and the amount of very basic information that gets completely wrong is quite mind-blowing.

22:10Just really basic stuff. What players play for what teams, who won last year's FA Cup. Really, really basic stuff. It gets wrong.

22:21Barry Glendenning:Who did win last year's FA Cup, Barry? Good question. Flea circus. Flea circus.

22:32Go on, Barry. Can you get it? Who won the FA Cup? Can you get it? Oh, God.

22:37Seb Hutchinson:There's only going to be... It's going to be one of three, isn't it? I think I know.

22:42Jonathan Wilson:I think I'm like 99 % sure, but I don't want to laugh at you too much unless I don't get it. But let's all wait for Barry to get who won the FA Cup. Who won the FA Cup? I'm not AI. No, I know you're not AI. I know that. So I'll give an AI answer. West Ham won last year's FA Cup. Right, okay. Crystal Palace. This year's FA Cup. City.

23:03Seb Hutchinson:No, Palace was the year before.

23:04Jonathan Wilson:It's Man City. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, last year is 2025, isn't it? Oh, I see. Okay, all right. You are taking it literally as AI. I mean, I've never logged into AI, so I don't know. But hopefully it won't replace vanilla podcast. Well, you have, Max, because if you look something up on Google, you get AI answers. Oh, right, yeah. So you're using it without knowing it. Wow.

23:28John Brewin:The thing is, I was going to say that there are occasionally scandals about people writing stuff in AI, and there are AI checkers where you can check whether your work comes out as AI. So I put a match report from Bournemouth or wherever, and it said it was 100 % human written. So I was delighted with that. But people, the press conferences, your phone and certain translating machines can do a reasonable job of this. But I think it was a Pep Guardiola press conference that I was at, and Pep with AI was not great. So I was sent a transcript by one of my colleagues and said, has someone actually done this properly?

24:08John Brewin:you know it's actually got like a proper transcript to this and i just got replies that no mate we're all too lazy now we just use ai so so ai struggles with so so so good it just can't

24:20Jonathan Wilson:just can't compute of that uh craig please yeah you just go to gemini and go please patronize eddie howe for 500 words craig says what's the panel's favorite sporting memory that doesn't involve football uh who wants to kick off on on that i know that one straight away uh linford

24:41Seb Hutchinson:christie's gold in 92 and i'm basing this on the moment at the time i was oh my goodness i was so happy i was so happy i couldn't believe what i was saying because it's such a obviously such a simple sport to understand the 100 meters but it just felt i remember the because i think the year before maybe two years before this world championship and all the best runners were in it and they all went under 10 seconds. It was an amazing race. And you always felt Linford was the nearly man in that group. He wasn't quite able to get over the line.

25:12Jonathan Wilson:Carl Lewis, Dennis Mitchell. Carl Lewis.

25:14Seb Hutchinson:Leroy Burrell was in there. Franky Frederick. Frankie Frederick was always second. But I don't think, I'm trying to think, I don't think Burrell was in the Olympic final. But Dennis Mitchell was. Frankie Frederick was. Carl Lewis was. Wasn't at his best. And I felt, and then the next year, Libford won the world championship and set a new 9.87 or something. And I've never seen anyone who was an American run that. So I just remember at the time thinking that's amazing. It was close, close behind that was just Frank Bruno winning his world title as well against McCall. He was hanging on. Do you remember this?

25:51Seb Hutchinson:Do you remember this? And he was basically, he started the fight well. And then the last few rounds, it was just an absolutely knackered man hanging on and just waiting for the bell. and then when the bell went and he was lucky because that title shot came because McCall had beaten Lennox Lewis who had knocked out Bruno before so yeah they're the ones for me and you always go back to when you're younger because you get really emotional

26:15Jonathan Wilson:On Athletics, the 4x4 Chris Akebusi getting past Is it Pettigrew? Is it Antony? It was yes David Cole Absolutely. That is an amazing moment. Barry? Offaly beating Limerick in the 1994 All-Ireland Hurling final. I was there at Croke Park and Offaly were dead and buried and they scored two goals and six points in the last four minutes to win the game and snatch it from Limerick at the death. and that is my favourite sporting memory, including football. It's just my favourite sporting memory, full stop. Wilson?

27:08Barry Glendenning:That I've been at, England beating Australia at Trent Bridge in 2005. Were they chasing 127 and did their best to mess it up? and then Ashley Giles clubbed a boundary to win it. But I think if you're talking about watching on telly, it's definitely when you're younger. And I would say Faldo holding the putt on the 11th at Augusta, the second playoff hold to beat Ray Floyd in 1990. But that was partly because I was allowed to sit up late and watch the Masters and something me and my dad did every year. So it's partly that as much as Faldo.

27:46Jonathan Wilson:On golf, the Constantino Rocker putt, Is it the 18th at St. Andrews? Yeah. To take it to a playoff, maybe with John Daly? I can't remember. But it might be 60 feet. It might be 100 feet. I don't know how long the putt is. But he beats the ground. When it goes in, he is on the floor beating the ground. It's just an unbelievable – in terms of golfing moments. Of course, you've got all the riding. Did you say you were there? Were you there? No, no, no. No, no, I wasn't there. I just remember watching it on the TV. But that is a single golfing moment. It's unbelievable. John?

28:21John Brewin:I was at the 2005 Ashes. I was in the final day winning and claimed it at the Oval, which was a sensational day. I was there too. Yeah. I unfortunately had to do the late shift at work, which probably wasn't my greatest day's work. But that Mark Cavendish winning the World Cycling Championship, led in by a British team, a brilliant lead out by a friend of the show, Bradley Wiggins. And, yeah, absolutely fantastic. And, yeah, golfing memories, Ryder Cups and so on, I think. I mean, Medina is amazing. Medina is unbelievable. Celtic Manor as well, the K-Club. You know, all these repeated wins. Absolutely fantastic.

29:08Barry Glendenning:The Belfry in 85, the first one they won in however long it was.

29:12Seb Hutchinson:Can I correct myself? Leroy Burrell was in the race. I've just seen. All right. I've given him a massive disservice. So, Joel, make sure you put that in so everybody's aware. Apologies. bruny surin bruny surin was in that race and then ray stewart who was the only player you know in the 88 olympics with um ben johnson yeah ray stewart jamaican athlete was the only member of that race who didn't have a drugs charge against them at some point in their career

29:38Jonathan Wilson:wow and there's i think there's a documentary about that i i should say that um stokes at headingley i was in the park jamie had said we've got to get out of the house it was sitting in the park and i was holding my phone watching stokes at headingly and like i think does nathan lyon miss a run out and like my hand is like the phone is shaking i realize that maybe i shake all the time when i'm watching sport but i'm not holding the telly but like my phone my hand was like this and and the edge baston test you know the the one where harmison gets that wicket a mate of mine had got married the day before one of like the earliest weddings in our like friendship group so we were all like our hangovers were unreal and half of us wanted to we were in a in Cornwall in a hotel we were like we're just two wickets and then we'll go back we'll drive back to London and obviously that went on for so long and we were all so sick and hung over and just and just the stress of that and I think I think Harmy Bowles a full toss that one of them maybe I can't remember Brett Lee like Middles and it goes straight to extra cover yeah it goes straight to extra cover and you think if that goes over we've lost and then we get the wicket we shouldn't be a wicket right because his gloves off the bat um i'm in a whatsapp group with a couple of english guys and several australians and the whatsapp group is called lion has fumbled is it oh amazing moment that's a great question um oh and the searle brothers in the olympics the abanialis are failing the abanialis are tiring come on great britain come on great britain can I give a shout out as well the final frame between Dennis Taylor and Steve oh yeah that was something else yeah even the final black like that is just unbelievable moment alright that'll do for part 2 back in a second

31:44That's why this year we're only using Apple Cash. It's a super easy way to settle up because you can do it right in messages. Just tap the plus sign to get started. And the best part is you can spend the money you get right away anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. Every payment is secure and protected by Face ID, Touch ID, or Passcode, and your transactions are never shared on a public feed. Set up your Apple Cash today in the Wallet app. Apple Cash services are provided by Green.Bank, member FDIC. Terms apply.

32:36Jonathan Wilson:Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Richard says since it's pre-season, there's not much to talk about. Could you all discuss how you got started in the industry? I've published twice on Football 365 recently. I'm trying to sneak into the football journalism game. It'd be cool to hear what inspired you guys and what path you took. Oh, wow, we could be here for hours talking to ourselves doing this. But, Seb, give us a potted two minutes.

32:57Seb Hutchinson:Mine takes ages. Mine takes ages because I did running at the – I managed to get into running in the BBC when I was about 15, which is younger than I should have been. I shouldn't have been there really. And that gave me a taste of what TV was like. but I wanted to be a commentator from the age of 10. So I was doing a lot of work beforehand. And then when I finished uni, I did a master's in sports journalism just because I just wanted to stay in it. And then things built from there. I had a work placement at a couple of places. I did apply to The Guardian, and they turned me down. Too woke? Were you too woke, Seb?

33:35Seb Hutchinson:I think I was before woke. I don't think woke existed then. I think it was shit writing probably. And then, and then, but then I ended up working in TV as a, as a junior producer and then ended up as a junior producer at ITV. I'm trying to sub this all down quickly. Were you doing like,

33:52Jonathan Wilson:were you doing sport or were you doing like loose women? Right. Okay.

33:55Seb Hutchinson:No, when I was a runner, I did all sorts. I did a whatnot to wear watchdog robot wars when it first started. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. And that's great because when you do start having that experience is when you're around basically working people. It's just the most important thing because it takes away that idea of the world is about me, which you have as a young person. You think they're waiting for me to start work and everyone's going to be so happy. And then you just see people who just want to, oh, my shift finishes in five minutes. I just want to go home or, you know, this sort of stuff, the real world stuff.

34:26John Brewin:The real life.

34:27Seb Hutchinson:And there's no substitute for it. John?

34:30John Brewin:I trained as a local news journalist. but and I've always had great respect for local news journalists because it's a quite hard job very hard to find a patch to get the stories going and then um thanks to doing work experience I did work experience at the press association then at the BBC landed a job at ESPN uh as a result of that as a junior member of the team and it started from there really and I was there for a very long time and then thanks to I should say Barry and Barney straight after leaving ESPN I was on Football Weekly and started working on the desk thanks to Philip my gaffer on the desk so that's it really I've worked at two places for a long time in particular and freelance other places, that's it Wilson?

35:22Barry Glendenning:I failed at being an academic I did a three month journalism course and then stumbled into a job on onefootball.com, which was a sort of global football website. It was sort of ahead of its time. It still exists in a very, very, very different form now. And then it thankfully went bankrupt at exactly the right point where I had a bit of experience and some contacts. And I was able to, from there to freelance, got a job at the FT on staff. And that lasted three years. And then I've never had a staff job since.

35:53Jonathan Wilson:What part of academia did you want to go into?

35:55Barry Glendenning:Well, in retrospect, I don't think I did want to go into it, but it was just sort of the path I was on. So I was accepted to do a doctorate at York looking at constructions of imperial masculinity in the works of Joseph Conrad and Rudyard Kipling. Right. And thankfully, I didn't get funded for that. So I could start slagging off Cristiano Ronaldo.

36:17Seb Hutchinson:That'd be a good one now. That'd be really a good one now.

36:22Jonathan Wilson:I mean, I know your story and you know my story, Barry. I mean, I presume everybody listening does. I don't know, but you can do a minute. I entered a journalism competition run by a magazine in Ireland called Hot Press, kind of like the NME, but with a broader range of entertainment, not just music and politics and literature and stuff. and I won it and part of the prize was the commission to write four articles for them. I wrote the four articles and they offered me a job and that's how I got into journalism. You'll all remember me reading the news on BBC Radio Cambridgeshire and then going to report on dog shit.

37:08Jonathan Wilson:I mean, I've literally reported once for BBC London on dog shit as someone was picking up a dog shit with their bare hands and me saying, from the BBC. What are you going to do? You know, he'd left it and I went, what are you going to do with that? And then he picked it up with his bare hands. That's real local radio. It's absolute peak. How do you hear that? How do you hear that sound? Oh, you've got to paint pictures with words, Seb. Absolutely. Radio Cambridge for three years, did the longest ever radio show in a shopping centre for them. Six days. It took me longer to get it than I held it because a guy in Slovenia started on the Wednesday.

37:41Jonathan Wilson:Went to BBC London, worked a bit with Danny Baker, who was brilliant. was sort of like, eventually got the overnight show for a bit, which was mad. And then got the breakfast show with SAC for not being famous, replaced by my nemesis, Paul Ross. Went to talk sport to do a current affairs show, then got Soccer AM, got lucky, did that for seven years, et cetera, et cetera. Here we all are. Matthew says, Matt, here in Melbourne, I'm an annoyed England fan, wondering if you've seen any good films lately. I'm hoping for a good palate cleanser on Monday when I go see the Odyssey. Okay, what's a good film you've seen recently?

38:20Jonathan Wilson:Man of Culture, Jonathan Wilson.

38:23Barry Glendenning:I think the last film I saw just before I came out to the US, or to Mexico, was The English Patient, which I have to say I enjoyed enormously. I know it has a reputation as being slow, but I did not find it slow. I thought it was excellent.

38:40Jonathan Wilson:Is that the one that Frank LeBouf's in? Or is that... No. No, no, that's... Which one's he in? It's a great cast.

38:46Seb Hutchinson:No, that's the FIFA film from 1998.

38:48Jonathan Wilson:No, no, no, not the FIFA film. No, no, he is.

38:50Seb Hutchinson:Is he in Lucy?

38:51Jonathan Wilson:Is it Lucy? He's in a film with, is it the Stephen Hawking film?

38:58Seb Hutchinson:Oh, it is. Yeah, no, you're right. And he's the Turing film, isn't it?

39:03Jonathan Wilson:The Theory of Everything. I can't remember. There's a point where someone's in a hospital bed and Frank Leboeuf is the doctor and half the cinema going, who's Frank Leboeuf? And the other half are like, just watching a general French actor. Theory of everything confirmed. Barry, a film recommendation? Oh, I don't watch films very often. I just watch TV shows, box sets. You don't have to recommend one. I'm really struggling to think of the last film. Don't worry, don't worry. I'll get it, John. John, I'll recommend one. Okay, Seb. Oh, sorry, you go, Seb. Sorry, yeah. No, no, no, Seb.

39:36Seb Hutchinson:I watch a lot of films, but I tend to sort of go back rather than see the new stuff. I mean, I do see stuff at the cinema. I would say besides Jurassic Park, I'd recommend that to Jonathan Wilson. Besides that, I'd do Sunset Boulevard because I saw it for the first time.

39:51Jonathan Wilson:Yeah.

39:52Seb Hutchinson:And it's from the early 50s. Absolutely fantastic. That and 12 Angry Men. And I say this because a lot of people might have heard of these films but wouldn't have seen them. But it is worth it for a modern audience even now. They have not dated at all these films and they're very relevant.

40:07John Brewin:So do you know whose favourite film is Sunset Boulevard? Tell me.

40:12Seb Hutchinson:Bielsa?

40:13Barry Glendenning:Is it Enzo Fernandez?

40:15John Brewin:Donald Trump's favourite film is Sunset of Bouloubad. It does make sense, actually. Yes, I suppose he shows it all the time at Mar-a-Lago. Anyway, on the plane over, I watched Casablanca. Doesn't get much better than that. I also watched Full Metal Jacket. As another recommendation, this is one of my very favourite films, Seven is crime drama, The Friends of Eddie Coyle, starring Robert Mitchum. Absolutely sensational. Set in Boston. Fantastic film. You've got to watch all these films

40:50Jonathan Wilson:and then you've completed films. Jurassic Park, Cool Runnings, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, Enemy of the State. Done. Three of those are from the same year. Three of those are from the same year, aren't they? I'm stuck in the 90s. Yeah, you know, there are some good actual ones that make you think, like the lives of others. and life is beautiful. But really, if enemy of the state's on, I'm just watching. Come on, Will Smith. Come on, Gene Hackman. You can do it. Chris says, why does the pod have a producer and an executive producer? Does the exec stand behind the regular producer shouting at him and hitting them with a big stick until they get it right?

41:29Jonathan Wilson:Well, look, there's people that have to listen. This is a very good question. I also want to know the answer to this one. They have to, I would say that, you know, for the tape, because we're recording this during the World Cup, that the team here, Joel Grove, Rory Simon, Matt Bentley Viney, plus all the people back at base have done. The amount of work they do is absolutely extraordinary to make us just prat about and look vaguely presentable and sound vaguely presentable. So, yes, you need one to do all the nuts and bolts and one to listen back to check that they've put all the nuts, haven't missed out on nut and bolt, especially when Philippe's on another one to check that we aren't going to get sued by everybody in the whole world.

42:07Jonathan Wilson:So they are worth their weight in gold. but thank you for the question and that'll do for today thanks everybody thank you John thank you thanks Baz thank you cheers Wilson cheers thank you and thank you Seb thank you Max Football Weekly is produced by Rory Simon and Matt Bentley Viney our executive producer is Joel Grove and we'll be back next week I guess when the season begins

42:32Seb Hutchinson:this is The Guardian

42:38Thank you.