Football Weekly’s summer mailbag: World Cup 2026, the off-season and more: part one

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1:38Jonathan Wilson:Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. It's a mailbag, I guess Mark Langdon would call it, a bridge between the joy, agony of the World Cup and the start of the Premier League. You'd have thought after daily pods for so long you might want to listen to something about the news or politics or food or what people did yesterday, but we can only conclude you have Stockholm Syndrome. This is your life and our life forever. So welcome. You can't get away. Your questions on football and life. This is today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Jonathan Wilson, welcome. Morning. How are you doing?

2:08Jonathan Wilson:Very well, thank you. Hello, John Bruin. Hello. And welcome, Barry Glendening. Hello. So we are recording the morning after the semifinal victory for Argentina over England. But you are listening to this at least a week after the World Cup has finished. So we're going to try. We are. There are some England questions, but we'll start in the mode that hopefully we are all in as you listen to this from Joachim says, what is your favorite thing to do in a football detoxing period like the one coming up? And don't say spend time with your family because we all know that's not true. We'll get to that.

2:45Jonathan Wilson:Barry. Well, traditionally, I always enjoy watching the Tour de France as my bridge between the end of the domestic season and the start of the next one. This year, because of the World Cup and because we're in the States, it's more or less passing me by. And that's a bit of a shame, but I am keeping tabs on it. And I would suspect by the time this goes out, Tadej Pogacar will have won this year's Tour de France by about five hours and 26 minutes because he's unstoppable. I also enjoy watching crime procedural dramas and box sets. would you have a recommendation Wilson for Barry of a crime procedural drama that could get him from the end of the World Cup to the start of the Premier League well we were actually

3:42Barry Glendenning:we were talking about Bosch last night weren't we Barry that it turns out I'm actually slightly behind you on Bosch but I've very much enjoyed Bosch there's sort of three incarnations of it there's Bosch there's Bosch legacy and then there's Ballard which sadly is not about the Sondland centre-back but I finished the first iteration of Bosch on the flight from Dallas to New York So anybody who hasn't, it's not really a recommendation for Barry because he's already seen it. And indeed, you're well into Ballard territory. But anybody who hasn't watched Bosch, it's very good.

4:12Jonathan Wilson:And it's not, Bosch is not the, it's not the man who says Bosch and eats big Chinese takeaways. It's not that. No, it's a Bosch man. Big John. It's not Big John.

4:21Barry Glendenning:LA detective Harry Bosch. Got it. Played by Titus Welliver, who I suspect has the coolest name in the world. or actually has the two coolest names because Harry Bosch, his full name is Hieronymus Bosch after the Dutch, I think, artist. And the actor's name is Titus Welliver. He also was in Deadwood. But Bosch is very much set in Hollywood based on the novels by Michael Connolly, who I'm also a big fan. I'm reading one of his at the moment. And I very much enjoyed, while out and about in Hollywood, seeing places that are recognized from the Bosch TV series.

5:04Jonathan Wilson:And to confirm you said he was in Deadwood, not in Jedwood. That would be different. John, what will you be doing for your detox? Well, like Baz, I do enjoy a bit of Tour de France. There will be some... I'm going to the England-Pakistan Test Series and I'm also going to the Beyond the Gates Death Metal Festival. Yes, this is what I'm interested in. Yeah. Do you know what? Let me just read you the line-up and see what you think of these bands, shall we? Yeah. Where is it? It's in a Scandinavian wood, is it? It's sort of like 10 % stout that you have to drink and just yell loudly. That's sort of the vibe I'm getting.

5:48Go and burn a church. Yeah. Weirdly enough, one of the motifs is a burning church, yes.

5:57And part of the law of the Norwegian black metal scene is actually the torching of churches, which is not a very nice incident. But anyway, so yeah, 2026. So some of your very big favorites here. Top loader, Lighthouse Family.

6:22Dancing in the Moonlight played at the start and end of the set So, Testament, one of your favourites The mighty Electric Wizard, who I'm actually really looking forward to seeing The mighty Blood Incantation Some of these I can't even read Because you know they do the writing The font is gothic The font is, yeah Spectral Wound Yeah, they sound good, don't they?

6:52Jonathan Wilson:It's a fairly rude one for a name. Sounds like what Declan Rice had before the semi-final, doesn't it? Yeah, he ate the wrong lettuce and had a spectral wound, yeah. Castle Rat, they sound good. The Ruins of Beverast, which sounds like some sort of Tolkien offshoot, doesn't it? And my friend that I attend with this is very excited about the line-up. I just tend to go along and, you know, feel the vibes. And the vibes are great. It's very, very friendly. Bogan is a lovely place. Well, next week, actually, which by the time people are listening to will be last week or a couple of weeks ago, I'm off to see the Maccabees in Bristol, which is not quite as intense, I suspect, as John's gig.

7:40But friend of the show, Felix White, is hopefully sorting me out for that. Good man. Last night, I had a chat with Liam Frey from the court scene is he called when we were debriefing and he wished us all the best. And they're playing some gigs. So, you know, and he offered you a lot of love, Max. So there you go. So hi, Liam.

8:01Jonathan Wilson:Thank you, Liam. Yeah. I hope you're well as well, Liam. On the subject of not wanting to spend time with your family, actually, I cannot wait to see. It is amazing how much you miss your children and Mrs Rushton having been away for this long. But I am on a promise to not say the words, I'm tired for six weeks from the moment I land. I am not allowed to say. It doesn't matter how bone tired I am or what hour of the day they wake up. I am doing every morning and every night time for six weeks. That is the debt that I have racked up. So I cannot wait to see them. I miss them so much. Within half an hour, I'll be like, I need to be back on Sunset Boulevard with Christine Quinn.

8:43Jonathan Wilson:And that's how I'll be. But for that half hour, it will be amazing. um regarding your fatigue max of one of many things i've learned about you on this odyssey is that you can fall asleep at the drop of a hat so like you will go to bed for 20 minutes and have an 18 minute sleep and then just get up i it's a superpower i don't think you appreciate how lucky you are to be able to do well as i based my life on jack reacher he often said sleep when you can like the marines you have to sleep when you can because you never know when the next attack is coming and that attack here could just be another podcast uh at home it could be a child waking but it is proper brush teeth lights off clothes off in bed 17 minutes down out and that's the only way i can survive because you never know when your next sleep is coming yes john i think i think it goes for both of jonathan and max that they never know when the next pod is coming i mean you're right soon yeah but they're both it's not gonna be a long time i consider i do me fair share of pods but you two just take it to the nth degree there's just a klaxon in the sky i see it's a big p in the sky and you've got to go back and podcast okay let's do my fourth of six today so wow very well done there's only three or four for me oh no this is this is two of three for me god it's a terribly short day um one of three okay let's do so we're doing well yeah paul says should england appoint brendan mccullum as their new manager run towards the danger we've had we've had two weeks wilson uh uh you know i i don't know if basball would work but uh what do you think to the question i mean he's still england one day

10:28Barry Glendenning:manager isn't he and he seems to be doing quite well t20 wise england hammering india when we were over here, which obviously I didn't see any of, and now top of the T20 rankings, although they were well beaten in the ODI, and their record in the ODI since the last World Cup final is dismal. So I suspect he might lose the ODI job soon as well. Maybe he does have a free time. I mean, I don't think Brendan McCollum's response to going ahead would be to bunker down with eight players on the edge of his own box. No. So in that sense, if we need a short, sharp shock to break England out of the Mafeking tendency,

11:04Jonathan Wilson:then maybe that is the solution yeah do you think wilson that we're all you know late 40s early 50s right so let's say we have 30 years 35 years to go do you think england's men's team will win a world cup in our lifetime yeah maybe i mean it's possible 50 50 i mean if if well people will know

11:29Barry Glendenning:this won't they but if spain uh if spain have won on sunday uh on the sunday is to come for us then england will be the only team remaining with only which have won the world cup once and once only which for neatness's sake makes me think i'm guaranteed to win in 2030 and then there'll be no single time world cup winners but if argentina win have won then uh i don't think that's a certain

11:55Jonathan Wilson:But do you think, John, there is a, you know, it's still fresh in our minds. And like by the time people listen, it will be a bit old and, you know, and I pretty much like five minutes afterwards, I'm like, OK, you know, like my love of football is if we win, it's great. And if we lose, I'm kind of expecting it for all the teams I follow. But do you think there is a mentality, like a psychology, like something intangible for England that doesn't exist for the other big footballing powers? Yeah, this is it, isn't it? Thomas Tuchel was brought in to change that mentality and picking over the post-mortems, I think the reasonable point is that he couldn't change he decided to even take it on yet further OK, these players are going to defend deep and try and kick their way out and they're not going to control the ball and they're just going to hope and hit and hope and he decided to buy fully into that mentality I think as Jonathan said on the pod afterwards it wasn't like Southgate Southgate was at least trying to do stuff and you actually look at the substitutions they were much more attacking let's not really escape that I imagine by the time this goes out everyone will have had quite enough of that we might even have had enough of Thomas Tuchel him and Keir Starmer could be holidaying together in Ibiza by the time this goes out, couldn't they?

13:17But yeah, listen, I think we said this after various finals that England have lost or various big matches that they've lost, is that there is a corner of a football match that is forever England, which is an England player chasing, knackered, after a ball, losing it, no one getting the second ball, and the opponent's going back against them and then having to hack it clear and have to live and see out this danger. And maybe that's why the Mexico game was such a swell of national emotion because this time it actually worked. And it felt like the Dunkirk spirit, the Mafeking, hey, let's just go all the war images, whatever.

13:58It's probably a little regrettable that we have to do that. But that's something about the mentality, isn't it? That we celebrate stuff that's defensive. The underdog spirit, the bulldog spirit, such as it is, and it's something you've got to be a little bit careful with in these times, but the rearguard effort is something we find heroic and the thing is the rearguard effort hasn't really worked for us we've got to be honest about this and that's why Basbal worked for England for a little while because it changed the mentality I don't think England needs to be quite as evangelistic and talk about how we're saving international football because that's doing okay for itself I think but there has to be someone to come in And weirdly enough, Thomas Tuchel, as a pragmatist, maybe wasn't the correct fit because we maybe need an evangelist and someone to change the culture.

14:53Yes, we got there. We got there.

14:56Jonathan Wilson:You must, Barry, feel quietly confident now going into it. I know you are nervous, but you'll always have, you know, it's like Totteringham's Day or whatever it is. You know, it's Glenn Denning's Day when, you know, the day after England are out and you can just walk freely for the rest of the tournament. Well, I thought England would win the World Cup just gone. I really did. I was terrified. They didn't. They blew the semifinal. And look, as for whether England will ever win one in our lifetime, you're convinced, Max, my lifetime will be a lot shorter than yours. Oh, I don't know. Anyway, let's not forget, for a very long time, Spain's inability to win a World Cup was a standing joke.

15:41and then they won one and they also won the Euros. Was it twice? Once, twice? So I suspect at some point England will win one. You know, see also Paris Saint-Germain, their inability or their almost heroic ability to mess up Champions League campaigns and they've since got their act together. So I wouldn't worry too much if I was ye. but I think this one for those of us who don't want England to win a World Cup the one just gone will be always have a very special place in our hearts yeah I bet

16:20Jonathan Wilson:live shows coming up 1st of September Vicar Street in Dublin 9th of September Soho Theatre Walthamstow guardian.co.uk slash football weekly live the London show is being live streamed as well so wherever you are in the world you can watch it and that'll do for part one back in a second

16:36Hi this is Becca Moore for the girls podcast. All right, a quick shout out to our presenting sponsor, Apple Cash. Summer is here, which means the group chats are already spiraling with festival and summer plans. And we all know the worst part of being the one who fronts the money for the passes or housing. That's why this year we're only using Apple Cash. It's a super easy way to settle up because you can do it right in messages. Just tap the plus sign to get started. And the best part is you can spend the money you get right away anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. Every payment is secure and protected by Face ID, Touch ID, or passcode, and your transactions are never shared on a public feed.

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18:06Jonathan Wilson:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Jed says, how can we resist FIFA and its nonsense? Wilson.

18:12Barry Glendenning:Very hard. I mean, the problem with FIFA is, I mean, manifold, but the reason why it's so resistant to reform is that the delegates who vote for Gianni Infantino, a lot of them benefit from that relationship, that if you're on a FIFA committee, and FIFA committees in 2024 lose a vote to expand the number of FIFA committees from 7 to 35. and if you're on a FIFA committee you get your salary you get a stipend and you get expenses which are pretty generous and if you're enjoying that then you're never going to vote against a president who allows that to happen. So I think the only challenge really can come from UEFA, I don't think it'll come from this UEFA, I don't think Alcander Cefurin really has the stomach for the fight but realistically if you had a World Cup without any of the top European teams and if they could hive off Brazil, Argentina and then possibly take Japan, South Korea, US, Mexico then you don't really have much left but you'd have to have a very strong constituency there who wanted reform and what we've seen you know when the Balogun decision happened and UEFA came out and condemned it there were only four European associations who backed that up who were obviously maybe it was five it was belgium germany netherlands and norway was anybody else so maybe it was just four and and the english fa didn't because the fa is looking to host a women's world cup in 2035 and doesn't want the decision will be announced in november doesn't want to scupper that and i think they've probably got their eye on a bid for the world cup in either 2038 or 2042 depending on the regulations so again they don't want to make an enemy of infantino now um and i think you know the fa was sort of burned by them condemning chefferen and his sort of um fiddling about with term limits for uefa president in 2024 and nobody else not even the norwegians who've been very sort of hard on fifa uh not even the norwegians spoke up in in support so i think the the fa will have fine we'll just look after ourselves so i see very little hope of change frankly yeah and do you think john like we care

20:24Jonathan Wilson:and we're really you know we are deeply invested in this sort of stuff professionally as well as like caring about the game and i you know you did wonder if the the fact that it spilled onto the pitch you know the suspension of ronaldo's suspension the suspension of balagan's suspension immediately i think i can't remember if barry said it or someone else said it you know You can understand why fans think this is bent now, even if it isn't. There is a difference to the game being run badly or people not having the best interest of the game at heart off the pitch. Once it goes on to the pitch, could that be a paradigm shift in this?

20:58Jonathan Wilson:Or do you think that is sort of wishful thinking? Yeah, I mean, I think the grace and favour, sinecure and patronage stuff that Jonathan talks about, that will go on while, you know, everyone's on the gravy train. But this is what happens, isn't it, where when things fall down, when come down, look at the previous FIFA regime. We all knew to a certain extent, there were many, many stories about what was happening. and then these falls come almost suddenly, don't they? And that's the thing. But we do live in a political climate where, to follow the leadership of the country that we are currently in at the moment, you can style it out, you can be brazen and that's pretty much how Infantino has chosen to do it.

21:44It's almost as, you know, he doesn't do many press conferences. Those decisions that they make, like the Bellingham decision, they're brazen. They just say, well, we made the decision, what can you do about it? But as we've seen with the fall of Trump previously, and maybe that may come again, and he did come back. As you've seen in the UK with someone like Nigel Farage, who was riding very high. Suddenly, if they've let something slip, if there's a chink in the armour or something like that, that's when change can come. The issue is, as Jonathan alluded to, is who is willing of the other confederations who are Seferin or UEFA, who have recently painted themselves as the anti-FIFA.

22:36You know, they've gone against hydration breaks. They've gone against various rulings that have taken part in this World Cup. But that's as far as it goes. Philippe, we must credit at this point, saying that Infantino would never be a reformer of FIFA. that wasn't going to happen but when the shit goes down we need someone ready to actually take this on but it may be impossible because the amount of interest involved everyone wants a drink out of it don't they and that's the big issue really well I think when Blasher went down we all thought Gianni Infantino would be the saviour didn't we but Philippe did not to be fair right okay yeah Well, Philippe knows far more about this stuff than I do, but I always saw Infantino as this quite amiable, bald bloke who conducted Champions League draws and seemed harmless enough.

23:34And his reign at FIFA has us all pining for the good old days of Sepp. So who's to say that if Infantino was to go for whatever reason, that his successor wouldn't be worse again. Because that, as Johnston has said, is quite the gravy train chugging along there and no one who's on board wants it to be derailed.

24:06Jonathan Wilson:And actually, there's a question, Wilson, on the criticism that you get if you criticise FIFA and Infantino is this is a very Eurocentric sort of view of things. And I suppose, you know, do football fans care anywhere really deeply and do football fans in those smaller countries that get the patronage from fifa care at all like like you know the or i mean it's very hard to i don't know and maybe you don't know maybe it's not a fair question but do you see what i mean that there is this idea you know we are coming from a eurocentric angle what we see we see with our eyes but that doesn't necessarily mean that other people believe that yeah but i think even

24:43Barry Glendenning:to put it in those terms is to put it in the terms Infantino wants us to put it in. He portrays himself as this champion of the Global South and yet he would say, look, we've expanded the World Cup, there's now 16 more teams and the vast majority of those are from the Global South. In many ways that is a very good thing, it is a very positive thing. You saw him, he hasn't been anywhere near as vocal at this World Cup, but the previous one talking about how people in Europe should be silent for 3 ,000 years because of their past crimes. And you think, well, yeah, but right now we knew that in Qatar there were, I mean, however many thousand migrant worker deaths at least related to World Cup projects.

25:26Barry Glendenning:And the idea that somehow the criticism of obvious abuses can be weaponized against the people making the criticism is, I mean, it's a classic populist trick. And I think people go along with, people are so sort of terrified of being seen to ignore the justified complaints of the Global South that they sort of allow that narrative to develop. And, you know, migrant worker deaths are disgusting. Whoever's sort of causing them, whatever sort of cause is being espoused alongside it. So I think what we've seen at this tournament with the issue with Omar Atan, the Somali ref, I think the fact that it varies from country to country, but over 80 % of applications for visas from fans from Africa going to the US and Canada were turned down.