In short
EFL playoffs special of Guardian Football Weekly—Hull City’s Championship play-off final win over Middlesbrough to earn Premier League promotion; Bolton’s play-off final win over Stockport to return to the Championship; and League Two play-off final—Notts County beating Salford City. It also covers the fallout from “Spygate” involving Southampton and manager Ivan Juric? (Eckhart/Tondarekker referenced) and what it could mean for next season.
Guests
Barry Glendening, George Elec, and Ali (Max/“Ali” on the panel). They discuss tactics, recruitment, and analytics (expected goals/XG).
Key claims
Hull’s promotion was driven by elite finishing (Ollie McBurney, Joe Gelhardt) and strong defensive/goalkeeping performances in the playoffs, not just season-long underlying numbers; XG is framed as a chance-quality tool, not a replacement for goals. Bolton’s win hinged on substitutions—Sam Dalby and an overhead-kick finish—plus Stephen Schumacher’s attacking approach. Southampton’s “Spygate” reputation and manager future look damaged; Eckhart likely won’t manage in England again.
Notable examples
Hull’s 0-1 winner McBurney; Middlesbrough’s keeper Sol Bryn; Bolton’s Sam Dalby and target-man Sam Dalby; Stockport’s Adam Sidibe (taken off despite strong play); Notts County’s data-driven recruitment via Football Radar; Salford’s budget and Kyle Robinson’s playoff record.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOHull City's Rise to the Premier League
1:53 to 3:30
Discussion on Hull City's journey to the Premier League and highlights of playoff matches.
“On the panel today, Barry Glendening, welcome.”
Managerial Changes and Team Dynamics
3:30 to 6:15
Exploring Hull City's management changes and their impact on team performance.
“And Hull probably haven't been talked about.”
Expected Goals (XG) Insights
6:15 to 8:36
Understanding the role of expected goals in Hull City's season performance.
“I believe that according to their ex-G, Hull should theoretically have been relegated.”
Playoff Final Performance Review
8:36 to 11:02
Examining the playoff final and standout performances from Hull City players.
“The other funny thing to say about the numbers is obviously that's over a 46 game period.”
Looking Ahead to the Premier League
11:02 to 14:00
Discussion on Hull City's future in the Premier League and player needs.
“The Middlesbrough keeper, look, it's a horrible thing to happen.”
Hull's Physicality Needs for Premier League
14:00 to 16:49
Discussion on Hull City's need for physicality and squad adjustments for the Premier League.
“When you sort of, in your mind, you imagine the championship is as physical as the Premier League, it's just not as technically good.”
Sunderland's Successful Recruitment
16:50 to 17:41
Analysis of Sunderland's effective recruitment strategy and player performances.
“And Sunderland's recruitment last summer, I don't know if they just got really lucky or their recruitment department is brilliant.”
The Return of Jared Bowen?
17:42 to 18:28
Speculation about whether Jared Bowen could return to Hull City and the implications.
“But yes, he is a bit Jake Humphrey for my tastes.”
Middlesbrough's Challenges and Future Prospects
18:29 to 20:39
Examination of Middlesbrough's situation and their managerial prospects moving forward.
“Get Andy Robertson back as well, like a whole reason.”
Southampton's Crisis and Implications
20:40 to 23:46
Discussion on Southampton's managerial crisis and its impact on the club's future.
“I'd be fairly confident that Eker won't be their manager next season.”
Show all 27 chapters
Eckert's Controversial Management Decisions
23:47 to 27:06
Analysis of Eckert's management approach and its repercussions for Southampton.
“Like everyone kind of likes Southampton.”
Bolton's Championship Triumph
28:03 to 29:50
A discussion about Bolton's promotion back to the Championship and key player performances.
“I thought maybe it might have been because of the heat or he picked up an injury, but he was clearly very angry at being taken off.”
Match Analysis: Bolton vs Stockport
29:50 to 31:12
Analyzing the critical moments and strategies that defined the playoff final.
“even though he's not young, I think he's 27, he was brilliant in that hour that he was on and he caused Bolton a lot of issues with their high line with his pacing behind.”
Bolton's Journey Back to Glory
31:12 to 33:04
A look back at Bolton's struggles and their return to the Championship.
“And Ali, I mean, Dalby, the touch to be part of that second goal was so, because the ball came into him so fast and he cushions that so well.”
Stockport's Challenges and Future
33:04 to 34:52
Discussing Stockport's challenges, player performances, and future prospects.
“was them putting out a team the first or second game of the season in League One with a load of 17, 18-year-olds.”
Upcoming Championship Season Insights
34:52 to 37:43
Insights on the upcoming Championship season, including team strengths and weaknesses.
“and hit a really good shot across the keeper and Adai managed to tip it away from goal, but Witten couldn't sort his feet out quickly enough to jump over the ball or get his feet away from it and diverted it in.”
The Consistency Challenge at Stoke
37:43 to 39:48
Exploring the challenges Stoke City faces in maintaining consistency and attracting talent.
“Gary Rowett left Stoke and went to Millwall and had them on the fringes of the playoffs consistently.”
Salford's Playoff Journey and Future
39:48 to 42:00
A look at Salford's playoff performance and expectations for the upcoming season.
“to attract that kind of manager because it is seemingly so difficult to succeed there.”
Notts County's Financial Strategy and Player Recruitment
42:00 to 43:20
Learn about Notts County's unique financial model and smart recruitment strategy.
“that probably go up at some point it'll be interesting to see if they decide to stick or twist with Robinson because my assumption is even though they They'll appreciate that they got very close.”
Comparing Recruitment Strategies: Notts County vs. Salford City
43:20 to 45:00
Explore the contrasting recruitment approaches of Notts County and Salford City.
“They had obviously Macaulay Langstaff, who they signed from Gateshead, now plays for Millwall, who scored 40 goals in a season for them.”
Assessing League One's Competitive Landscape for Next Season
45:00 to 48:00
Understand the uncertainties facing League One teams as they prepare for the new season.
“Notts County have taken a different approach, smarter approach, I'd say.”
Charlton Women's Dramatic Playoff Victory
48:00 to 49:16
Discover the thrilling details of Charlton Women's playoff success and a dramatic transfer saga.
“You know, Luton, obviously, you'd expect to be kind of there or thereabouts again.”
Thomas Tuchel's England Squad Announcement Analysis
50:04 to 54:32
Dive into the analysis of Thomas Tuchel's squad selection for the upcoming tournament.
“You saying this is a sensible squad, which we largely agreed on yesterday.”
Harry Maguire's Omission Reaction and Tuchel's Management Style
54:32 to 56:05
Examine Harry Maguire's reaction to his omission and Tuchel's direct management style.
“who are in the squad rather than ones who are left.”
Tuchel's Selection Insights
56:05 to 57:54
Explore Tuchel's explicit player selections and decision-making process.
“I think generally as a concept, we can all kind of understand that selection as well, even if it did come out of the blue.”
Pep's Leaving Party and Retirement
58:10 to 1:00:38
Discussion about Pep's retirement party and notable video messages.
“If you ever tried to spend a Scottish note in London, for example, you can't get rid of them for a lot of money.”
Listener Email and Relationship Comparisons
1:00:38 to 1:01:15
Read a listener's email comparing relationships to football teams.
“It would cross his mind if he's emailing us.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is The Guardian.
0:30George Elek:to stay. So it's good to know that when you're a Hotels.com member, you can save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels. Plus, you earn rewards on every stay. So each trip you take helps pay for your future trips. Just use those rewards like cash. And importantly, there are never any blackout dates. What's a blackout date? Well, it's a date where you can't use travel rewards. Frustratingly, usually on or around major holidays or other peak travel periods. But there are no blackout dates with Hotels.com rewards. Superb. Yes. So next time you're booking somewhere to stay just book it at hotels.com hotels.com it's all in the name
1:13George Elek:hello and welcome to the guardian football weekly an afl special the hottest football matches since john aldridge at usa 94 a lot of cramp and sweat and in the end hull bolton and lox county end up victorious in spygate terms probably a good thing that whole city won ollie mcburney right at the death. They stayed in the championship last year on goal difference and now they're in the Premier League. It was a tight game between Bolton and Stockport for an hour or so, but in the end the Trotters run away with it, while our Salford destined to be in League 2 forever after Notts County sweep them aside.
1:39George Elek:We'll do a little on the England squad. I roll, Baz. We're heading well and truly into wedding season in the correspondence. All that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.
1:53George Elek:On the panel today, Barry Glendening, welcome. Hi Max. It's not the top 20 takeover as we celebrate their Christmas of course. George Elec, hello. Hi Max. Hey LA Maxwell. Morning guys. Let's begin then with the championship playoff final. Hull won Middlesbrough 0. Hull promoted to the Premier League. I suppose George it's been an must been a very interesting week or two to be the host of the world's Premier EFL podcast. It's been quite good for business it's fair to say. The Spygate content has yeah has done okay for us because it felt like it's the first time basically ever that EFL news has been the sporting news in the country you know as we said on the day that Arsenal won the Premier League title the lead story on BBC News at 10 was Spygate and Southampton being tracked out of the playoffs which was pretty incredible so yeah it's been it's been really fun as you say given the controversy that would have come about had Middlesbrough won this playoff final you even had the Hull owner Ashen Illusherly on Wembley Way being interviewed before the game, announcing, which was also then BBC breaking news, that he would be taking legal action if they didn't win the game, which kind of set the whole game up.
3:02It's a great power play before a match, isn't it? I know, I know. I actually then saw him walking on Wembley Way with about a million bodyguards around him shortly afterwards. There are a couple of things to this. Firstly, it's great that we're not going to have any complaints over who the promoted teams are in any kind of more arbitration panels or anything like that. Secondly, it means that next season we're going to have two games between Middlesbrough and Southampton. And I think we can all agree that it should be the first game of the season live on Friday night because it's going to be incredible.
3:28George Elek:With that in mind, Ali, to this game. And Hull probably haven't been talked about. I was thinking about this, you know, I did quite a few talk sport shows when Spygate happened and during and afterwards and pods. And I think we probably didn't really, if you're a Hull fan, you're like, we're in the playoff final, for goodness sake. And now they've won the playoff final. We're not even leading with them. Yeah, I got the sense that there was a lot of Hull City fans and those at the club sort of trying desperately to go like, you know, we're actually in this and we still don't know what time kickoff is three days before the game.
4:01And yeah, I think everyone made it. I don't think in the end that, you know, the stories I was reading of people flying over from Australia and potentially going to miss the game through the uncertainty, obviously, thankfully they were all there and they were treated to a brilliant performance. You know, this Hull team have had such a funny season because, as you mentioned, they stayed up on goal difference last season and they had over the summer a transfer limitation, if you like. It wasn't that they couldn't sign anyone, but they couldn't pay any fees. So it was just frees and loans. And within that, Oli McBurney, who scores the winner, is one of the free transfers and surely one of the greatest free transfers ever, given the monetary value of promotion to the Premier League as much as the glory as well.
4:46And they had a new manager in Sergei Yakirovich, who'd had a great record in Bosnia and in Croatia and had done pretty well in Turkey. The owner, Ajun, who'll be delighted that he's already got so many mentions on this podcast. He doesn't shy away from the limelight. His nickname when he first came over was the Turkish Simon Cowell. Yes, that's right. He made his money syndicating all of those sorts of shows over in Turkey. You know, he's been a pretty lively owner of Hull City so far. They have bought and sold dozens of players. They've bought a lot of players from overseas. Some of them have been great.
5:20A lot of them have been complete waste of money. And his managerial hires had been pretty rogue as well, in a way. Like, he hired Shota Arvaladza, and it was an absolute disaster. Then he hired Liam Rossinia, and it went pretty well. Then he sacked Liam Rossinia because he thought the football was boring, and they almost got relegated last season. So when he hires this guy, Jachirovic, I think most observers would go, uh-oh, you know, are they playing with fire here, getting someone that doesn't know the league? And instead, Jachirovic has been incredible all through the season, but particularly in these playoffs.
5:54He completely understood what was needed for Hull to progress and to win these playoffs, not conceding a goal, having conceded the fourth most goals in the whole championship throughout the season. So them being a really good defensive team was not the story of their season at all until it needed to be. And I think that's a real achievement for him as a manager. And that's what's, I think, taken them to the Premier League.
6:17George Elek:I believe that according to their ex-G, Hull should theoretically have been relegated. Instead, they've been promoted. Is this a damning indictment of the ex-G statistic? Is it just speak volumes about Ollie McBurney and Joe Gowhart's finishing? Or what does it tell us? It depends. There's a common misconception of how XG is used. The people who rally against it and want to say that it's pointless and means nothing seem to have this idea that people want to replace it with goals, which just isn't the way that it's used. I mean, XG is a useful tool in order to understand chance quality. and it can often flag up teams who are maybe playing worse than their results or playing better than their results.
7:05In Hull's case, there was a piece written on our website a few months ago about this, kind of trying to work out why their underlying numbers were so bad compared to their results. And part of it is because they had two players, Anony McBurney and Joe Gelhart, who are elite finishers for the level, who even by their standards were having elite seasons. And that helps, you know, having good players helps. And it's interesting that they played against Middlesbrough, whose underlying numbers were the best in the league by miles under Helberg, but they had basically no players who were clinical in front of goal and therefore missed loads of chances.
7:34Like finishing is a skill and it's an important skill in the same way that having a goalkeeper who makes good saves is an important skill. And in Panda, Hull have a very good shot stopping keeper unlike Middlesbrough, who've got Sol Bryn, who's been one of their weakest players this season. So it tells a very good story of what's going on between both boxes. It's a helpful predictive tool. It's by no means, you know, people, we've had some comments on our YouTube video saying, you know Hull are the death of XG and I think that just kind of misses the point of what it is basically and the other thing to point out is that even though for much of this season Hull may have been posting kind of unsustainable numbers that wasn't the case in the playoffs like they played two games against Millwall they played a game against Middlesbrough and apart from a disallowed goal for Millwall none of their opposition ever got close to scoring like none of their Millwall didn't create anything of note that stood and Middlesbrough didn't have a shot on target I don't think on Saturday So the performances they put in when it mattered in the playoffs was a masterclass from Jukirovic and there was nothing unsustainable about that at all.
8:35They were the best team in the playoffs and they won them. The other funny thing to say about the numbers is obviously that's over a 46 game period. Actually, the league table broadly generally aligns fairly well with expected goals numbers. So this is certainly one of the greatest differences in finishing position to overall underlying numbers. But what's kind of worth pointing out is they were third halfway through the season, having posted, you know, not very good numbers and they were running very hard. The numbers did catch up with them. And that's kind of when George says, and this is how we prefer to use it, not to say anyone deserves anything or not to say that they, you know, that they're rubbish or they're lucky.
9:17but as a predictive tool. It actually helps George and I when there's 72 teams to cover. You don't get it right all the time, but it's certainly, it is quite a helpful tool to predict future results, probably better than if you just predicted the team that had won the most games over the last five games. If that's what you use to predict the future, then they would win every game for the rest of time. And we know that's not what happens, right? So with Hull, it did catch up with them. Like in the second half of the season, and I think their record was about 12th in the league for four months or so and they almost dropped out of the playoffs.
9:49So, you know, the tweet I think that Barry would have seen, it's frustrating really because it boils it all down in the most reductive way. You know, it's a whole season's worth of good performances and then poor performances, good results and poor results and none of it really matters, obviously, because, you know, you end up where you end up and they made the most of their playoffs.
10:11George Elek:I mean, Barry, it wasn't a classic, was it? And George mentioned Sol Bryn, and however much of a weak link he might be for Middlesbrough, God, poor bloke. I mean, he's so desolate at the end, isn't he? Yeah, look, playoff finals are often not good. I think the Bolton-Stockport one, which we'll get to, was an exception. It's all about winning. And I remember being at the championship playoff final last season with Wilson and his Macca mates, and it was an okay game. I think Sunderland were probably a bit lucky, but it doesn't matter. It's all about winning, and if your team wins, it's a brilliant day.
10:53George Elek:It's a fantastic occasion. If your team loses, you just get out of Wembley as quick as you can, and you go home and try and put it behind you. So, yeah, this wasn't a good game. The Middlesbrough keeper, look, it's a horrible thing to happen. There's lots of playoffs. You know, our colleague, talks with our colleague, Mickey Gray is probably the poster boy for playoff misery missing that famous penalty against Charlton Athletic. It's all about winning. That's what playoff finals are. Look, we should talk about McBurnie, George, because that's the key moment. And he was looking knackered. I mean, he's fair.
11:32George Elek:He looked knackered after a minute because he was so hot. And, you know, he's quite fair. but like it is it's nothing more than right place right time that's what he's really good at i cannot stress to you how hot it was at wembley over these three days and uh i was sat in the in the nice seats down by the dugout the hull dugout and when leon miller came off after an hour i thought he's going to pass out he was so red like it was boiling and as you say mcburney puts a shift in you know he he has to lead the line for a team that basically don't have the ball he's got to press the the the borough centre-backs who for a lot of the game were just knocking it between themselves probably trying to get halter to kind of chase shadows but he'd come closest earlier in the game um he'd started the move he got the ball on the right hand side played a huge diagonal um to ryan giles bust the gut to get in the box and headed the ball onto the bar and then he started the move to that led to the goal with the ball coming you know bit of hold up play ball going out to hirakawa the substitute who um has been a really good pickup an impact player who comes off the bench on learn from bristol city all bristol city fans are wondering why they're watching one of their players assist a goal in a playoff final.
12:34And the cross came in and Bryn, I think, tried to catch it and just basically parried it into the path of McBurn, who stayed it in, whipped his top off, ran celebrating in front of the Middlesbrough fans. And yeah, for him to be a free transfer, this is also in the context of him having just been left out of the Scotland squad. Again, a lot of Scotland fans probably watching on Saturday thinking, yeah, could probably do with a guy like this this summer, but he won't be there. But he's just a brilliant goal scorer, a very good footballer. And I just think one of those players that, this wasn't always the case early in his career, but now as he's a more senior pro, just the kind of play you want at your club, like someone who you can see really, really cares, someone who has the quality, who scores goals.
13:14And I'm excited to see him be the poster boy, I guess, for Hull in the Premier League next season.
13:19George Elek:Yeah, I mean, it'd be interesting, Ali, to see who the other poster boys are. I think it was their manager, it might have been their owner. I was listening to afterwards, talking about how Sunderland have been a good model, which would suggest they're going to buy 15 players and we won't see any of these lot, you know, in the Premier League next season. But it's probably fair to say they need some reinforcements. Yeah, I think so. I think there is always something to be said for if you have a group of players that have achieved together, that reflects the fact that they understand each other very well.
13:48They have a good team spirit generally, that kind of telepathy, if you like, you know, having built a unit together. and in most cases when you move up a level I do believe generally in at least making sure you don't completely blow that up but it does seem particularly if we're just looking at this season sample size of promoted clubs that actually the most important thing is to buy £120 million worth of 6 '3 athletes particularly in midfield Hull are going to need that
14:20George Elek:Do you think that's interesting that it's physicality that Sunderland and Leeds went for? When you sort of, in your mind, you imagine the championship is as physical as the Premier League, it's just not as technically good. Yeah, the championship's very physical, but I think it's just like, it's sort of like diet Coke to full fat Coke. Yeah, it is physical and it is, you know, that is a correct way of describing the championship, but possibly more so the endurance that you need because it's a 46 game season rather than 38. Like everyone in the Premier League This is probably complete rubbish, but it feels like in the Premier League they are all one to two inches taller on average.
15:00They are all stronger. They are all faster. And the incredible changes in terms of how teams approach set pieces has meant that anyone looking for marginal gains now wants to be taller in order to defend set pieces better, in order to attack set pieces better. And so, yeah, Hull's squad definitely needs some reinforcements. But, you know, no one ever buys a whole starting XI, right? I know Tri Hulme, for example, I think he played in every game for Sunderland this season. There are players in that squad who can step up and who will have to step up. But, yeah, you should be excited to follow their transfer business this summer because, as I said, under the owner, I mean, he just loves buying players.
15:46And he will buy players from everywhere. and sometimes they might be players with strong links to the Turkish Super League. So we might see some quite entertaining signings. You know, a lot of the like streets won't forget Premier League players that end up in the Turkish Super League might be coming back to Hull. He's quite keen for Hull. Hakan Suka. Yeah, yeah. Emre Velazoglu will be there in midfield, the 5 '3". He's keen for Hull to be seen as like the representative of Turkish football in the Premier League. And George said he saw him with a lot of bodyguards. There was certainly some Twitter rumours I saw that some of the guys he was with are basically the Avengers of Turkish billionaires who are now all like, yep, let's do this all together.
16:27So they are going to be a fascinating addition to the Premier League for sure.
16:30George Elek:Trae Hulme and Dan Ballard are basically the only two players who won promotion last season who were first-team staples for Sunderland this season in the Premier League. Luke O 'Neill as well to a lesser extent after he came back from injury. But that was it. Everyone else. And Sunderland's recruitment last summer, I don't know if they just got really lucky or their recruitment department is brilliant. But pretty much every single signing they brought in, with one exception, Simon Odinger, was a success. So, Baz, just quickly, as a Sunderland fan, I'm trying to work out whether you absolutely adore Luke O 'Neill because of the incredible journey that he's been on with Sunderland Football Club, versus the fact that he keeps writing quite clearly chat GPT, ghostwritten LinkedIn-style tweets about his journey and leadership.
17:28I never dreamt of making the Europa League because why would I have done? I was playing for Hemel Hempstead in the National League South. I'm trying to work out how that squares off with you.
17:38George Elek:I very much like Luke O 'Neill. He seems like a lovely fella. But yes, he is a bit Jake Humphrey for my tastes. But, you know, two each their own. Look, he's setting himself up well for post-career. and fair enough because his journey and his story is, it actually is very inspirational and it should be very inspirational and therefore fair play to him. Him and that cabbie are on Sunderland Till I Die. I mean, frankly, the two nicest people you've probably ever seen on television. Sorry, George. I was just going to say, talk about, I mean, going back to Hull. You do have to wonder if, you know, one of their biggest or best players they've ever sold in Jared Bowen, who's now headed to the championship.
18:19Surely you've got to think that Ashen will be looking at Bowen and thinking he's someone that he'd like to bring back to Hull as a bit of a statement as to their return to the Premier League. I mean, there's no way, is there? Well, unless the only way possibly is if West Ham can persuade him to basically load him out for a season whilst they're in the Championship, as some relegated teams have done, in order to be like, then if we're back up, then he can come, you know, we'll still have him when we're back in the Premier League. But let's see.
18:41George Elek:Get Andy Robertson back as well, like a whole reason. Yeah. Harry Maguire. Quick word on Middlesbrough, Duke. Oh, yeah. Quick word on Middlesbrough. Six games at Wembley without winning there for Middlesbrough, right? I mean, Kim Helberg has done brilliantly he's come out really well from the whole spygate situation i think you know as a guy who loves the club and loves football and speaks so well about it um they will they will go again presumably they'll probably lose hayden hackney i don't know who else they'll lose yeah i mean i think a few slanton fans are just throwing their phone against the wall hearing you say he's come out of this well because they do not agree um but yeah i agree um he i think he's honestly think he's the most exciting manager we've had in the championship since bielsa in terms of the playing style he's implemented in my mind he has a squad of players that are in no way suited to play the style of football that he wants and yet he still turned them into a very good team i think they will sell hackney i think that's no bad thing loads of examples in recent history of clubs cashing on their best players at the right time and using that money to reinvest you look at sunderland and jack clark you know sunderland fans obviously you know weren't happy to to lose him but the sale enabled them to kind of reinvest and push in that promotion season it's it happened consistently and I think that you know even though fans hate losing their best players you've got to capitalize on on it when you have a talent that's worth tens of millions of pounds I'm sure they'll do that this summer similarly with Morgan Whittaker I wouldn't be surprised at all if he moves on too I would back them if they can bring in the type of player that the Helberg needs to play his style I think they're going to be very very strong next season and there's an extent and it won't feel like this for Borough fans there's a degree to which I kind of wonder if maybe not going up this season could be quite a good thing for them I'm not sure they necessarily would have been suited for promotion now playing this way I think would have been hard for them with a manager who plays such kind of high risk aggressive attacking football you know you look at Sunderland as a blueprint who under Labrie you know don't play that way and have been kind of a bit of a seamless transition up to playing in the Premier League because they're already playing a style where they're happy to concede possession a lot of the time it'll be the same for Hull at the beginning of next season too so um yeah Borough definitely one to watch out for even though those who watch the power final wouldn't have seen it they are normally a very good watch and um and have a manager that I think is going to be a bit of a star in that in those circles it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being one of the elite Ali what what what happens Southampton now what how badly damaged is the reputation has that character is he still there as we record he is still there as we record yeah i they must be reeling obviously and i suppose once the appeal was rejected maybe it was let's should we have a week just to just to well i was going to say relax that's probably the wrong word but you know what i mean take stock i guess I mean, it's going to be interesting and I don't feel sure either way on exactly what they're going to do.
21:37I'd be fairly confident that Eker won't be their manager next season. It's absolutely, I know we've already gone through this, it is absolutely insane what's happened. When you consider that that guy is the youngest manager in the EFL, like 33, had put together a ridiculous winning run. He won championship manager of the month three consecutive months to finish the season. So he's like the absolute flavour of the month and now is like complete like villain of this ridiculous drama that's captured the attention so much. So I assume he won't be their manager. I mean, he may get a ban from the FA.
22:13He may well get a ban. We don't know yet. But I'm really interested to see what impact does this have on the on the club as a whole? like the fans are saying a lot about you know having completely lost their trust in clearly well in everything because they were that they feel so let down by what's happened that's understandable um they weren't very happy anyway because of the relegation and they'd kind of just about parked that because they won every game for four months so that's now dredged up again the players you know it was reported at the time that they were considering their options legally in terms of, you know, could they work out that this was a potential loss of earnings for them or loss of opportunity for them, which was, you know, came from a poor decision made elsewhere or from cheating.
22:58And maybe, you know, some of those guys will leave because they feel so let down by what's happened. I have no idea what the club is going to look like come August. And there's always a chance, as excitable as everyone gets, there's always a chance that things are kind of fine like maybe they change manager in the next we haven't by by mid-june maybe by the time the season starts things feel different and look different there and maybe once they start the season and they start playing football matches and start winning football matches because they're still likely to have a good team maybe things will be normal or maybe they will continue to be seen as this like incredible villain i don't know like do you really think it's going to last for years like southampton as as a hated club because of this i I can't see it happening.
23:42George Elek:I mean, I think people move on and, you know, football moves on very quickly. But it's just mad that it's happened to such a bland, probably isn't the right word, but inoffensive club. Like everyone kind of likes Southampton. They're fine. Southampton, nice little club. So for this to happen to them. Produces great minds like Matt Letizia and Ricky Landon. well great player previously the most controversial thing was how tight the gold nets were at the dell and it's gone to this but i mean like i'm really torn george like it sort of depends who is most convincingly spoken to me last time which is perhaps a sign of my own weakness that i i just can't work out if how egregious this crime is and how big a punishment should be and you sort of feel for eckhart right that this is clearly not the right thing to do and the like you know reading out his messages sort of telling young interns to do better and bring back stuff and all that it sounds bad but it shouldn't be the end of his whole football career he's really a brilliant football manager right if i'm if i'm honest i feel next to no sympathy for him for from the bits from come from the bits that we're getting where and also the thing that's been lost here is that the you know it's all all we can go off is reports right apart from when the efl published the written findings last week which was pretty damning on on etker and it made it seem as if he had basically orchestrated a kind of premeditated covert operation to spy on the opposition team, which is bad.
25:09But there's also reports that when the news first came out, that Samson's first defence was to say that the analyst, the intern analyst, was working as a lone wolf, which is absolutely ridiculous. And then there was a story saying that Tondarekka didn't know that it was illegal, which is also absurd, given that he was Barnsley's assistant manager however long ago. Reports that he's had, you know, he's been involved at clubs that have previously and the German national team that have previously, you know, had accusations thrown at them of this in the past too. Like, you know, it feels like they've tried to squirm out of this.
25:43Well, he has tried to squirm out of it a fair bit. You know, it seems pretty obvious to me that both the treatment of his staff and also the way that he went about trying to gain an advantage was not particularly good. The conversation around how much advantage do you actually get is in my mind totally and utterly irrelevant because obviously it was enough to make them do it, especially in the context of the Middlesbrough game where the best player in the championship player of the season, Hayden Hackney, was very deliberately being kept, you know, his availability for the game was being kept in the dark by Middlesbrough.
26:11They weren't confirming if he was available or not. So even just by going up there, seeing that he wasn't on the pitch and getting back in the car and driving back down again would have been of kind of a fair benefit to them. So my assumption is, you know, the FA are investigating now. My assumption is that we probably won't see Tonda Rekker managing in this country for the foreseeable future. and I have very little sympathy for that. And to Barry's point, my hunch is that when Eckert, if Eckert leaves, then a lot of the animosity will end up being directed at him rather than the club, would be my guess, because it feels like he's the villain of the piece here rather than the club who'll be looking to make amends.
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26:48George Elek:The Championship welcomed Burnley Wolves and West Ham. West Ham expected to part company with Nuno Espirito Santo. Suggested yesterday, the Championship, no place for a dying Jedi like that. Scott Parker, Gary O 'Neill on the very boring but probably sensible shortlist there for the job at the London Stadium. And that'll do for part one. We will do the League One and League Two power finals in part two. Hey, everybody. This is Taylor from The Total Soccer Show. And this episode is brought to you by Hotels.com. The summer of soccer is right around the corner. And if you aren't using Hotels.com to book the experience of a lifetime, it's worth asking why.
27:25As a member, you save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. So whether you're following your team across North America this summer or planning a well-earned escape after being glued to football for weeks on end, make sure you book on Hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's all in the name, Hotels.com.
28:03George Elek:welcome to part two of the guardian football weekly uh so bolton four stockport one bolton promoted to the championship after seven years away at this game barry a bit more exciting than the championship final the previous day yeah it was a good game bolton were worthy winners i suppose was interesting because the standout player of the match was on the losing team, Adam Asidabe, who played for Stockport County and was somewhat strangely, in my opinion, taken off after, I think it was 60, 65 minutes. I thought maybe it might have been because of the heat or he picked up an injury, but he was clearly very angry at being taken off.
28:48George Elek:so I must confess he's a fella I never heard of before Sunday but I suspect he will have quite a few suitors on the back of that performance alone. Louis Barry who Stockport County brought in to try and get them through the or get promoted and through the playoffs he did not have a good game but Bolton I think were worthy winners and I was quite pleased for them because a little friend of mine, Jack Jackson, was at the game. He's a big Bolton fan. His brother is a Chelsea fan. And yeah, Jack had a very nice day out with all the clampers who came down from Bolton to go to Wembley. Jack, Paddy McGuinness and Vernon Kaye.
29:34George Elek:What a lovely day it was for all of them. What did you make of it, George? Yeah, I totally agree with Barry about Sidibe. He only came in in January from St. Johnson, having spent a lot of his previous career in non-league. kind of in the Stockport area. So maybe it's just a case where, even though he's not young, I think he's 27, he was brilliant in that hour that he was on and he caused Bolton a lot of issues with their high line with his pacing behind. Scored a goal that was disallowed using VAR that I think was the right decision, but I know a lot of Stockport fans think it was quite harsh.
30:05But he then scored a very, very good header to equalise. It felt like Bolton's substitutions really worked. They brought on Sam Dalby, who is a target man for the last half an hour of the game. He set up, or he played a part in setting up the goal to make it 2-1 as soon as he came off the bench, he then scored an overhead kick. And it felt like basically the best player on the pitch was Stockport and he came off. And then the best player on the pitch came on for Bolton and that kind of really swung the game in their favour. Bolton were absolutely brilliant in the second half. And as a Bolton fan, having been at Wembley two years ago and lost 2-0 in a game that your team didn't turn up in at all, the season before that, they lost over two legs against Barnsley.
30:45to have that second half where you see three goals in front of you on a hot Wembley day, like they were loud. They didn't stop in the whole second half. It must have been an unbelievable hour or so to be a Bolton fan. And Stephen Schumacher's done a very good job. He's been well supported. This was the aim and the expectation was that they would get promoted and they've done so through the playoffs. So yeah, deserving winners on the day. And it was, as you guys have said, a very good playoff final.
31:12George Elek:Yeah. And Ali, I mean, Dalby, the touch to be part of that second goal was so, because the ball came into him so fast and he cushions that so well. And then his strength before the overhead kick is brilliant. Yeah, it's lovely to see you show such appreciation for the specifics of hold-up play. Of course, of course, always. You know, it's having a real resurgence, isn't it? So, you know, a lot of, I'm sure a lot of your Cambridge United heroes growing up had showed deafness of touch like that. Not everyone does. It was brilliant. You know, George is right when he says Schumacher's been well supported.
31:53You know, what he means is they've got a really good squad and that means they're able to bring Dolby off the bench. You know, they had a guy on loan from Celtic called Johnny Kenny. He was injured here, but, you know, in the second half of the season, Dolby would play up top with Kenny. and that gave them a whole new dimension with a target man, a speedster, plus the tricky wingers they've got, plus the technical midfielders they've got. The defence stood up really well during the playoffs. Chris Farino in particular, I felt, had a fantastic playoff campaign. So, you know, he had the better options off the bench and he used them to good effect.
32:26It feels funny because 4-1 is a pretty standout scoreline in a playoff final. It feels very rare that you get that. And yet Stockport, you know, it wasn't a 4-1 game, if that makes sense. Like up until the hour mark, it easily could have gone either way. And yeah, certainly in the first half, Stockport looked incredibly dangerous. So two really good teams going at it and a much more entertaining game than Saturday's Championship playoff final. So great to have Bolton back in the Championship. You know, people will probably know, but may have forgotten that they suffered back-to-back relegations from the Championship down to League Two in the midst of administration, points deductions.
33:04You know, one of the most memorable things that we've covered really was them putting out a team the first or second game of the season in League One with a load of 17, 18-year-olds. They didn't have any senior players for a few months. And the regeneration of that club under the owner, Sharon Britton, and her team has been absolutely magnificent. And they're now back in the championship where, certainly in terms of size of fan base, that's absolutely where they deserve to be over 20 ,000 fans in League One so they'll be contributing to a pretty intriguing championship next season I think it's fair to say
33:37George Elek:George, worth mentioning Kyle Wooden, I mean poor guy scores his own goal it's not his fault at all, the ball's parried into his path but just the fact that Stockport were playing with their top scorer and a centre forward, Paul Warhurst is it a reverse Paul Warhurst? I can't remember, he was a centre back who became a striker, a reverse Paul Warhurst who went back to centre back and was doing a great job at centre-back for Stockport. Yes, like Dion Dublin played a bit centre-back at the end of his career. Yes, it's Dion Dublin the right way round. Gary Doherty was definitely a DC slash ST. The Doherty Dublin.
34:11Yeah, and he played there for the end of the regular campaign in the playoff semi-finals as well because of Stockport's injuries to their usual centre-backs. And he did, you know, the annoying thing, well the frustrating thing for him is that, you know, even though the headline will be that he scored a known goal, he played well. Like he dealt with the threat of Bolton really well in the first half. He was booked for a pretty rash challenge at one point on Ruben Rodriguez. And for the first goal that Bolton scored, it was thanks to a save from Corey Adai from his Thierry Gale shot that he really should have done better with.
34:41There was kind of a bit of a scuff from 30 yards and I'm not entirely sure how Adai got the slow down to it and how he didn't control the parry better. But for the own goal, it was a brilliant save. Kozy Adoubri set off down the right-hand side and hit a really good shot across the keeper and Adai managed to tip it away from goal, but Witten couldn't sort his feet out quickly enough to jump over the ball or get his feet away from it and diverted it in. So, you know, one of the top scorers in the league playing centre-back, he's a huge player for Stockport and, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what Stockport do now because they've lost Simon Wilson, who's been a huge part of the, you know, the really successful project that they've had over the last few seasons.
35:17He's going to kind of manage the football operations at Sheffield Wednesday under their new owners, which is going to change things. has cut a pretty frustrated figure quite a few times this season and after the game at Wembley on Sunday. So it's been an incredible kind of upward trajectory for Stockport over a fair few seasons under Chaloner. But if there's a time where it feels like things might start to change a little bit, maybe Wilson's department signifies that this might be it.
35:42George Elek:You mentioned, you know, Bolton going up and Lincoln and Cardiff going up, contributing to Ali to a quite interesting championship next year, which perhaps we should have done in the previous part, but it's okay. I don't think people, it's not memento, is it? People don't mind about timelines on this podcast. How do you see that division? And then we'll ask you the same about League One. Well, I haven't really thought about it, to be honest. Playoff final weekend. On the beach, I see. Not on the beach. I only left TGI Fridays outside Wembley about 12 hours ago. You know, this is, I have not turned my attention to the 26th, 27th season yet.
36:14We've got a World Cup to cover with the England pod. So yeah, I mean, look, I think with the Championship, you always start with the teams coming down. we're in a bit of a weird position where it's obvious that the teams coming down from the Premier League they get stronger it seems in terms of the squads that they come down with the players that stick around it used to be the case that teams would come down from the Premier League and all their best players would go I don't really fancy it but I think now the Championship is seen as as good a league as basically any other in some of the top leagues in Europe so for a lot of them you know actually sticking around for a season isn't the worst thing in the world so Burnley for example like I know they've been poor again in the Premier League and but their squad looks incredible to be honest on paper so that their manager hire will obviously make a big difference but at the same time we've had consecutive seasons where one of the teams coming down has gone down again in Leicester and in Luton so it you know those teams are always kind of I would say the main characters and then you've got like Birmingham and Wrexham came up from League One with tons of cash and ambition both finished top half but outside the playoffs they will be feeling very bullish about their chances you've got Southampton you've got Borough who you know both of those are really strong this season Mill will finish third and you know their trajectory has been amazing and the way that they've dealt in the transfer market gives you hope that they can build another even better team maybe for Alex Neal who's an exceptional manager and that's only you know half a dozen of the team so uh yeah that's as good as I can give you but you know when I say it's intriguing I really mean it it was even this year like the teams it used to be the case on our pod that you could basically tell which championship teams were poorly run and and basket cases at worst and generally they would you know they would go down but now like I think the way that clubs are being run is just so much smarter across the board they make fewer expensive mistakes in player recruitment possibly they make slightly better apart from Southampton perhaps and so it just the water level has risen so much and it's Georgia's Oxford United for example they got relegated and everyone's kind of patting them on the head going like you guys actually did really well you really did your best, you weren't a terrible team you're always competitive even with a small fan base and a smallish budget but like unlucky you just couldn't compete and that's pretty brutal at the moment unbelievable objectively true
38:43George Elek:George Stephen Schumacher is one of many former Stoke City managers who has done what he did well at Plymouth he's done well with Bolton couldn't get a tune out of Stoke and that seems to be a problem at Stoke for good managers for everybody yeah Alex Neil is another one who couldn't get a tune out of them Alex Neil Michael O 'Neill who's just done a pretty good job when he went in at Blackburn Nathan Jones, who's gone on to Anos Thampton, didn't go to plan. Gary Rowett left Stoke and went to Millwall and had them on the fringes of the playoffs consistently. Mark Robbins has a whole wealth of success in his managerial career and there's rumours that he might be the next Stoke manager to be sacked imminently.
39:31I don't understand how Stoke can be so consistently poor, but it looks now, given the evidence at hand, And if you don't succeed at Stoke, you're probably not going to have much trouble getting another job because I think people are happy to write it off. And I wonder if Stoke at any point will struggle to attract that kind of manager because it is seemingly so difficult to succeed there. But when you consider the Coates family should be incredibly good owners given the money that they invest in the club and also the patience they share with these managers for the most part, where even though they've churned through them so quickly, they're normally given quite a decent opportunity.
40:06Schumacher is probably the only example where the fan base and from the outside it looked a bit harsh and a bit quick to move on from him. But yeah, he's a good manager. That's his second promotion out of League One and I think Bolton will, the one thing with Schumacher is you know he's going to play attacking football. You know he's going to play on the front foot and so I don't expect Bolton to be one of these teams that goes up and kind of reverts to a more defensive style. Whether or not that works or is conducive to an attempt to stay in the division, we'll have to see.
40:32George Elek:So then the League Two player final, it cut at one point late on to a Salford fan with like a program on his head like a hat in the sun. He was like, he got one of the seats that was like directly in the sun. I mean, I hope since you went to all three, George, that you were at least in the shade for these. Rygate-Rustler says, how satisfying was Notts County winning in front of Neville, Button and Becks? It does feel, George, that Salford will never, ever leave League Two. Like, ever. They were good this year. I mean, they were, I can say it now quite easily, they were pretty unlucky on the final day of the season not to get an absolute stonewall penalty, missed an absolute sitter.
41:07George Elek:A goal would have put them up instead of Cambridge I don't care and then they just got they were just very comfortably beaten it seemed in this game yeah I was really surprised the to the degree at which Notts County were able just to really you know win the game with ease because Salford have been you know they were very impressive over two legs against Grimsby in the playoff semis where even though Grimsby kind of managed to force the game into extra time for the majority of it Salford were by far the better team across the two legs against a very good Grimsby side they've been strong at the back end of the season too Kyle Robinson has a really poor record in playoff campaigns I think that was his first sorry his fifth playoff that he's competed in as a manager and he's yet to win one which is a surprise but yeah they've been not as counterweight by far the better team Salford have reportedly a very big budget for the league I have no doubt that that will continue to be the case in the in the in the coming seasons I expect that probably go up at some point it'll be interesting to see if they decide to stick or twist with Robinson because my assumption is even though they They'll appreciate that they got very close.
42:08You know, the aim and the minimum aim probably for the season was to get promoted out of a league where four teams do go up. So it'd be interesting to see what happens there. They've got a squad of players. You know, Dan Udo, for example, was signed from League One when he was a good League One player last summer. In Ryan Graydon, they just cherry-picked one of the best strikers playing in the league that they play in, which isn't really a normal thing to do in League Two in a January window. So, you know, they are... MK Dons were kind of the real money bags team in League Two this season. They've gone up coming second.
42:38I expect Salford to be right up there again next season.
42:42George Elek:Let's give some credit then to Knox County, Ali, especially pod listener James Belshaw, who I thought was still in goal for Harrogate, but he's had his boyhood club, Knox County. But just a brilliant day. But they have money as well, don't they? You know, which is not a crime, but they did really well in this game. Well, they're a very interesting team, club. they have money partly because they they're the biggest fan base in league two so averaging over 10 000 in league two highest attendance in the league so they have you would say therefore you could be confident saying they'd have among the the highest like organic revenue if you like uh in league two and that you know i think their their budget based on what i know and have been told would be around the kind of fourth or fourth to sixth mark in league two so no one's trying to pretend this is like a story of huge overperformance versus their budget what's interesting about them is their owners who are the Reeds brothers they they don't swallow five million quids worth of losses every year like a lot of owners do in League Two they are from what I can tell happy to lose a million quid a year and that actually means that in many ways they're not able to be as competitive as Salford so they have as I understand it incredibly strict like wage structure they don't overpay their players they have been incredibly smart in recruitment for many years now starting in the national league where they signed Ruben Rodriguez who starred for Bolton at Wembley in league one played for Oxford as well they signed him from the was it like the Dutch second tier Portuguese number 10 Alessandro Jatta who scored the first goal for then is a Gambian striker they signed him from Denmark and he has scored basically one in two a very healthy rate for two seasons now, two and a half seasons now, I think.
44:31They had obviously Macaulay Langstaff, who they signed from Gateshead, now plays for Millwall, who scored 40 goals in a season for them. So they are a nice combination, Max, of wealthy, but also really smart with their money. And it reminds me a bit of Stockport County, who are, you sometimes get clubs who are so rich that they don't need to be that smart with their recruitment. They just buy the obvious players and the best players. And I would say Salford City are basically a good example of that, broadly. They just sign experienced players who've played at a higher level and they are quite good as a result.
45:05Notts County have taken a different approach, smarter approach, I'd say. And I think it's really, really interesting. So, yeah, they are, I haven't used the word data, but you have to mention it with Notts County. The guys that own the club, they own a company called Football Radar. That's where they made their money and that's how they bought Notts County. and they have applied all of their data analysis into running the club in terms of its recruitment, decision-making, everything. They are probably the closest club in terms of how they are run to Tony Bloom's Brighton and Matthew Benham's Brentford, I would suggest, in the whole pyramid.
45:41And yeah, some people say League Two, it's probably really hard to be like that, probably harder to be sort of data-driven. You're definitely limited in where you can recruit from in League Two. you can't sign Venezuelan wonder kids at the drop of a hat but they're doing a pretty good job and yeah I find them a very intriguing club
45:59George Elek:So they've gone up with Bromley MK Dons you mentioned and the Mighty Hughes I imagine because it's so soon so recently you were just in TGA Fridays unless Ali was there without you every minute together that you can't tell me exactly how the Mighty Hughes will do in League 1 after you predict us to finish I think 18th in League 2 he left a couple of hours before me so that he could start his research for next season we know who's the professional one of the two Ali we know that given Max that our team is going to be playing in the same division next season I've already put some thought into this I must say, it's all I think about when I go to bed is how strong will League One be next season and I think the answer is we don't know because you've got two giants basically who in Leicester and Sheffield Wednesday where there's so much that is unknown about the state they're going to be in.
46:54Like Leicester obviously have an absurd amount of talent for a League One team, but we have to assume the likes of Abdul Fatahou and Sefi Mavadidi and these players will be leaving this summer. We also don't know who their manager is going to be. They've also reportedly taken out massive loans against their parachute payments and may have to act accordingly in terms of, or should be acting accordingly in terms of preserving the long-term future of the club rather than throwing everything at game promoted this time around. So Leicester could be the best team we've seen in League One in a long time in terms of talent, or they could be made up of young players and they have to really clear the decks.
47:32Similarly, Sheffield Wednesday come down as a team that have had to clear the decks because of the issues post the Chancery era. But they've got a new owner in David Stork. They've appointed Simon Wilson that looks like a very smart bit of recruitment in terms of the football upside. but we have no idea who their players are going to be. We have no idea how deep Stork's pockets are. We just don't know. So when you consider those two are the bookies' favourites to win the league, and we genuinely have absolutely no idea what state either of them are going to be in, it's pretty hard to work out how strong the league is going to be.
48:00You know, Luton, obviously, you'd expect to be kind of there or thereabouts again. Oxford, I'm sure, will definitely have, well, I'm pretty sure will have aspirations to get straight away back up to the championship rather than consolidating. And then MK Dons, I expect will have one of the biggest budgets in the league again. So, you know, sitting here now, there have been times in the past where you look at a team in League One, you know, when Sunderland came down, for example, even though it didn't go to plan, when it came down, it didn't go to plan. There's no reason to think that with Leicester and Sheffield Wednesday, they're certainly going to be one of the best teams in the league.
48:32But they obviously have the potential to be, but they also have the potential to be teams that, like the ones I just mentioned, could come down and initially struggle.
48:39George Elek:On the subject of the playoffs, Charlton women beat Leicester in the WSL promotion playoff. Goal is after extra time. Charlton won the penalty shootout. goalkeeper Sophie Whitehouse saving four penalties to hear more about that. And the Champions League final. And, of course, Bunny Shaw actually took a turnaround. She was going to sign for Chelsea and then decided to stay at Man City. Tom Gary saying one of the most dramatic U-turns the women's Super League transfer market has ever seen. Go on to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, wherever you get your podcast. That is out today. And we'll do some England in part three.
49:14Hey, everybody. This is Taylor from The Total Soccer Show, and this episode is brought to you by Hotels.com. The summer of soccer is right around the corner, and if you aren't using Hotels.com to book the experience of a lifetime, it's worth asking, why? As a member, you save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. So whether you're following your team across North America this summer or planning a well-earned escape after being glued to football for weeks on end, make sure you book on Hotels.com and start earning rewards.
49:50Because when it comes to hotels, it's all in the name Hotels.com.
50:04George Elek:welcome to part three of the guardian football weekly uh george ali as you mentioned ali uh you have an england pod now you can focus on um we have spoken about thomas tuchel's radical picking 26 good footballers uh yesterday um uh and i've seen i've seen you do a you know it was on my doom scrolling alongside houses I can't afford in various areas of Melbourne's inner north and east London. You saying this is a sensible squad, which we largely agreed on yesterday. Oh, that's good. Yeah, it was funny because I tweeted a week before the squad announcement when I was going through what I thought he was going to do.
50:44And it suddenly occurred to me that it was going to completely baffle like two thirds of the nation and have a very strong reaction to it which it then did it felt like on Thursday night when the leaks were happening and on Friday morning there was a really strong it felt like everyone was up in arms and then increasingly over the last few days I feel like he actually explained himself pretty well and anyone that's actually committed more thought than oh my god that player's really good why is he not going has kind of gone like yeah I kind of see what he's doing here yeah this is uh you know This is different, but like, yeah, a very clear idea of how he wants to play, like incredibly specific for every position.
51:26Picking players that he thinks play well in those roles, in those areas of the pitch, rather than picking players and then working out how to play them all together on the same pitch. I'm bored of that. We've seen that. We've seen that all the time. I don't want to watch Phil Foden tucked in off the left or playing on the right or playing as a 10 when there are better players playing with Harry Kane as a number nine. So, yeah, I think things have kind of eased off a bit and hopefully now people can look forward to it. As you say, we're very fortunate as England football fans that we've got some pretty amazing players who are in the squad.
52:02And I prefer to focus on those rather than those left out. But certainly, like, it doesn't mean that there aren't some areas that you still wince a little bit about. like left back depth and central midfield depth. But again, like, you know, those aren't major issues to have. Let's be clear. Like there are other nations heading to the World Cup who might have more glaring issues, let's say.
52:23George Elek:Runde Stifter in Runde Löcher is round pegs in round holes, George, which is what Tuchel appears to be doing. Do you share Ali's, I mean, I don't have his optimism or just a sensible review of the squad. That's different to we're going to go and bloody win the World Cup. yeah I was I guess when you look at the players that we all thought would be the starting 11 and then the three or four most likely substitutes they are all in the squad so you know the the everyone getting kind of wound up about 20 20 to 26 these guys between them are probably going to play 100 150 minutes in the whole world cup that's if we go far the only one that I'm disappointed about is Adam Water not being in the in the squad because it feels like you know having four centre midfielders, albeit we've got Nico O 'Reilly and Rhys James who can both play centre midfield if needed having someone of Wharton's passing ability I think there's room for him in a squad like this, but having said that, as you say, Tuchel has a very clear idea of what he wants from the roles in the squads he, it's enlightening to him talking about Foden and Palmer, I've actually found it even more baffling to read and see so many people saying like you know we need Phil Foden to provide that little bit of X factor to break down a low block.
53:40And I'm like, have you not watched Phil Foden play for England in the last two major tournaments? Like that's just, the opposite has happened. And he's looked at Harry Kane and he's looked at players that thrive around Kane and how to get Kane to thrive. You look at Luis Diaz, for example, who, you know, left Liverpool and there wasn't much thinking that he would be a big loss. And he's gone to Bayern Munich and alongside Kane, he's been absolutely sensational this season. And that profile of winger, that profile of a player that's going to make those runs in behind, either down the flank in order to get balls into the box or coming inside to be a goal threat.
54:11And that's the profile of wide player that he's chosen. And that's why Noni Maduweke is a more appealing option to Thomas Tuchel than Cole Palmer or Phil Foden. So let's put a bit of trust in Tuchel. And yeah, I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, but I definitely don't think the squad announcement has changed my opinion on how we're set to do.
54:30George Elek:Ali, can I ask you, I know you want to focus on players who are in the squad rather than ones who are left. out but what did you make of the reaction of harry mcguire and his uh extended family to his omission i was really surprised i must admit um i i it made me realize that despite you know practically worshiping slabhead as an england fan because of what he's done in an england shirt i like maybe i didn't actually know that much about what he's like as a bloke because i'd have thought he'd been the really stoic yeah wouldn't say anything wouldn't want to be seen to stick his head above the parapet and look you can't help but but notice you know a lot of our comments on youtube have gone well if Tuchel's really keen on characters and clearly in the case of Dan Byrne he's barely talked about Byrne the footballer at any point all he's done is say how much he loves him as a bloke and how much he's bringing to the dressing room same as Jordan Henderson like people saying well maybe Maguire in doing that has kind of proven why maybe he's actually not this incredible uh senior pro that that a lot of people think he is so yeah I didn't expect him to be in the squad anyway Tuchel has been like he's really interesting manager to manage England because he he doesn't dodge any question at all it's actually quite jarring like I feel like a Gareth Southgate press conference by the end you could pretty much predict verbatim what he would say uh to any like question easy or difficult with Tuchel it's like he just can't wait to explain himself and in a way that's really direct and often you know people the press love to like read between the lines and be like oh a manager says this about one player does that mean they're slagging off another player Tuchel's just happy to slag off the players that he doesn't like and obviously slag off's an exaggeration but like he said about Maguire in March where everyone thought he played pretty well those were his first games in an England shirt for like over a year and he went like yeah no um i don't see him uh very high in the pecking order here so like and even named who he had above him in the pecking order he's been so explicit about so much of this stuff that really the only major surprise was that tony was called up because that that that really did come out of nowhere yeah he gave calvert lewin and solanke a look in march and i don't think he liked what he saw and i think you know i don't think anyone's as a general concept the idea of having a third striker that's a different profile, that's a bit of a lump who you can, you know, Slovakia at the Euros, he came on, he was a target for long throws when we were getting desperate and crosses and scores a penalty in the shootout.
57:06I think generally as a concept, we can all kind of understand that selection as well, even if it did come out of the blue. What I really liked about the Tony selection was the talk that Tuchel and his team were sitting around talking about possible scenarios in the World Cup. And every time that happened, they kept coming back to Tony, which I just think it sounds like they're basically just in the local pub having a pint playing a game and they're like right okay 1-0 down we get a penalty who do we want? Ivan Tony okay that's one for him 1-0 down lead a target man up front Kane's injured who do we want?
57:36Ivan Tony okay perfect yeah let's call him up it just seems incredibly the way that
57:42George Elek:you or I would pick a squad All roads lead to Ivan Tony Exactly Good luck with your pod we will no doubt chat to you Thank you if you're happy to while we're away doing the whole thing The Bank of Scotland have unveiled a limited edition£20 note featuring an image inspired by Scott McTominay's overhead kick. Fans will have the chance to win 50 of the 100 notes in the coming weeks. All notes should, even though it's a cashless society, should have overhead kicks on them, shouldn't they? Trevor Sinclair, of course, the£100 note. If you ever tried to spend a Scottish note in London, for example, you can't get rid of them for a lot of money.
58:19George Elek:Especially if someone's drawn an overhead kick, someone's taking an overhead kick on it. They'll take one look at that guy and it's not a real thing. No Real Madrid players in the Spain squad for the first time ever, which did, you know, made me raise an eyebrow. But I don't know how many top Spanish players are in the Real Madrid squad. I think there was two that were expected. It's not that huge a surprise. No. And 19 ,000 Man City fans went to Pep's leaving party. That's too many people at a party, isn't it? You know, anything more than 20, really. You're not going to get around and chat to everyone.
58:47George Elek:He got video messages from Michael Jordan, Tommy Fleetwood and Neil Warnock. What a band that would be tonight singing. Carry on, George. Did you see the Michael Jordan clip? I haven't yet. Michael Jordan says, you've had an amazing career. Congratulations on your retirement. Oh, right. So there we go. Pep's done. Broken by Michael Jordan. Is Michael Jordan the new Jim White? I'm hearing. Michael Jordan famously one of the great retirement and then comebacks of all time. So maybe he's just trying to set that up for Pep. Let's get one of these wedding emails out of the way, Barry. very cool with this whole, it's our fault.
59:22George Elek:If we read him out, more will come. But James Horgan says, Dear Football Weekly Pod, my name's James. I'm an Irish lad living in Boston, Massachusetts. Before I forget, I hope Max has recovered from solo parenting. She returned three hours ago. Oh, I feel 10 feet tall. And it's saving banking those days for a trip of his own. Well, I am going away for six weeks in two weeks. But I'm working every day, but that doesn't seem to count. I've been listening to the pod for several years. It's provided great company during the years. And without making too much of this about me. I really appreciate the perspective you give me on life's ups and downs through the medium of football.
59:52George Elek:My longtime friend Patrick introduced me to this podcast. I can't think of a better present than being graced with a blessing from Barry ahead of his big day. We never thought this day would come as Patrick was very much like a mid-table team, not very motivated to go for the title. A longtime United fan, although they aren't in the Champions League final this year, Patrick will get some silverware of his own when he marries the wonderful Molly on Saturday. Cheers, Pod. Up the Rebels as So, yeah, Patrick and Molly. What has happened to this podcast since we were last on, Josh? Well, you know, if it's not this, it's a vasectomy.
1:00:24George Elek:But it's my fault. It's a bit of love at the end of a pod. I'm happy with it. There was a fellow from Cork called James Horgan in my class and school, so I don't know if that's the same one. He'd probably have mentioned it in his email if he is, so it clearly isn't. You'd think he would. It would cross his mind if he's emailing us. But anyway, yeah, he portrays Patrick like the Stoke City of relationships, basically. Which I'm not sure Molly's marrying well, but best of luck to them anyway. Yeah, absolutely. You know, a couple of years and she realized no one could get a tune out of Patrick and she'll move on.
1:01:02George Elek:But no one will judge her for it. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Cheers, George. Thank you, Max. Thanks, Ali. Cheers, Max. Thank you, Barry. Thank you, boys. Film of Weekly is produced by Ty Epapula. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. We'll be back on Thursday.
1:01:23This is The Guardian.
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