Leeds make winning Premier League return, plus a Euro roundup – Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30Nico Williams and Oviedo, of course. Archie's here on the eve of the Bundesliga season. Will Luis Diaz have a nice time with Harry Kane? Does adding Eric Ten Hag outweigh losing Alonso, Frimpong-Wurz and Xhaka at Leverkusen? In France, a scratchy winning star for PSG and a defeat for Paris FC in their first top-flight game for 46 years. All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

0:56On the panel today, Barry Glenn-Denning. Hello. Hi, Max. Archie Wintut, Will Common. Hello. And bienvenue, mon petit cochon, Philippe Auclair. Merci, mon cher Max. Petit cochon is a bit naughty, really. Oh, is it really? Yeah, it is. Derrière, derrière. Let's start at Ellen Road. Leeds 1, Everton 0. Petit says, based on the first 45 minutes, was Barry, in fact, optimistic about Everton? um crypto palace assume half the pod will just be you trying to explain the handball law and dave says uh hi max long time listener please can we have a furious rant from you about how the handball law is broken natural arm positions and how even when a defender stops the ball from going into the net with his arms it still isn't a penalty from a very happy leeds fan uh dave in leeds dav he says from leeds so we'll start with the handball barry i thought it was a penalty you did I initially thought it was a penalty then I kind of changed my mind and then watching the post-match analysis on Sky, Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher kind of changed my mind back again the handball law we know is an absolute shambles and it's going to be the source of controversy throughout the season it's already been the source of controversy in several games in the opening weekend I think in this instance you can make a good argument as to why it was a handball and you can also make a good argument as to why it wasn't.

2:28It's a very subjective decision, so we're never going to have consistency in it. And the ref, in consultation with his assistant, seemed to decide it was. And I think, on balance, they were probably right. If it went against my team, I'd be annoyed. if it went for my team, I'd expect it to be given. And I'm glad it happened because if it hadn't, we would have very little to talk about as far as this game is concerned. I understand why Everton fans are mad, but, and this is irrelevant to the debate in hand, pun not intended, I think they got exactly what they deserve from that game, which is nothing.

3:13Yeah, I agree. Dale Johnson, who is the man to go to, tweeted the James Tarkovsky penalty decision isn't about arm position but how he leans into the path of the shot and blocks it with his arm regardless of the arm being close to the body this can be seen as handball once given very difficult for the VAR to get involved if Tarkovsky was standing still and retracting his arm that his arm position god this is fascinating stuff his arm position would mean this shouldn't be a penalty but it's all in the movement of the body and the weight of the on-field decision I mean that's the thing Philippe the thing that infuriates me is when you know it's you're like half a yard away but he's got time Tarkovsky in this situation he's got plenty of time and he's he actually definitely leans towards the trajectory of the ball which is deflected which is perhaps the only excuse I could find for him because when I saw it I thought that's a stonewall penalty he's definitely diving to his left to stop the ball and he happens to stop it with his arm, which is actually not exactly against his body.

4:15It's not extending the arm, but he's extending his body in a position, which means that the arm is extended, if you see what I mean. And I find it extraordinary that this has been discussed for so long, and actually we're still doing it. And also because the role of VAR, the VAR can only redress the decision, change it, if it is a clear and obvious error. It is not a clear and obvious error. It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the laws of football. So it's a handball. It's a penalty. And to be honest, Everton, what did they show? I know. I would say Stonewall is perhaps pushing it, but I don't know, sort of chipboard wall.

4:55I mean, that's sort of maybe like a timber wall penalty. I don't know. Like, it's not quite as certain as Stone, but you take my point. Maybe I should stop this analogy. But anyway, like Barry and Vili were right, Archie. Leeds were really good. It did feel like attack versus defeat, like from the minute the game started. And OK, you expect Leeds to like push at the start, but it didn't really change. Certainly the first half, like Everton did nothing. It felt like Daniel Farker had given the Braveheart speech in the dressing room because Leeds just went charge and were just swarming all over Everton.

5:36for that first half. The fact that they didn't have a shot on goal tells you something. I felt for Everton in the fact that they were without a recognised full-back, that Garner and O 'Brien are not meant to be playing there, that they were suffering from the injury of Mikalenko and needing more recruits. Although Everton fans are scratching their heads, I think, at the fact that they sign a 19-year-old left-back in Adam Asnu from Bayern Munich and he's not to be seen. particularly when he came on for Mikalenko in the friendly against Roma last week. I think Everton still have some transfer work to do.

6:14I was really pleased for Daniel Farker because let's not forget there were question marks over whether he would start this Premier League season with Leeds, despite having got them promoted. And from the last time I saw him on a touchline, really, which I know he got them promoted last season, but Borussia Mönchengladbach, this was the complete opposite of what his Gladbach side showed. They were kind of bottom of all the statistics for sprints, amount of running that they do, tackling. And this was all action football. The way that they used the crowd, I think, was so important. And similar, I would say, in the way to Sunderland's victory at the weekend as well.

7:00And I think it's interesting that if you look at the promoted sides from last season, their first victories came in October, November and November. And already two of them have got the monkey off their back early on, which I think is encouraging. Albeit, I think they were helped by the fact that they got this Everton side on the opening day and that West Ham side on the opening day. Yeah, that's an interesting point, actually, Barry. I mean, probably less so Burnley. but if you think about for everyone else going to Sunderland going to Leeds you don't fear going to Southampton or Leicester particularly it's not saying they don't have good atmosphere sometimes but there is something about the Stadium Lions and Ellen Road last night that is just it just has a like a real it's fierce right yeah and that the atmosphere at Ellen Road is famously febrile and Everton I don't think it's unfair to say look cowed by it particularly in the first half they were a bit better in the second half but Leeds kept them pretty much at arm's length I think Jacob Ryanheader and a Charlie Alcaraz shot from a narrow angle were their only chances of no Elland Road and the Stadium of Light are intimidating places to go I guess Turf Moor is as well is it a northern thing?

8:21I don't know The atmosphere in Premier League grounds is, apart from a few exceptions, is often just very... Anodyne, isn't it? Anodyne, thank you, yeah. That's what I was now thinking. What's the most southerly ground which can really kind of put teams in... Millwall? Selhurst Park, probably. Yeah, Millwall, Selhurst Park. I think Palace is a good shout, isn't it? but I think that's I think that's an interesting and I suppose Philippe is a lot of these players because you're trying to think is you know are players used to big atmospheres and sure they are but maybe some of these players are not necessarily used to I don't know if we're putting too much impact on that and just not enough on how well coached leads are and you know Nanto looks exciting and Dan James looks exciting and all those I think it's more to do with the way that it has an impact on the home side than on the away side I think the away side they're used to it they this is what they do for a living.

9:23What happens is that suddenly they've got in front of them, I mean, as Angie was saying, you know, suddenly it's Braveheart. They go berserk. They have got this extra 2 % or 3 % in intensity, which they get from the crowd. Just like being a musician and having a great crowd, you're going to have a great gig. If the crowd is behind you, you're going to be better. and I think it's this increased level, simple as that, increased level in intensity in the challenges, in the fact that when they go for a 50-50 ball, it becomes a 52-48 ball, it becomes a Brexit ball. And I think this has the impact rather than, oh my goodness, look, they're so loud, I can't play football anymore.

10:09No, it just leads to an increase in intensity, an increase in tempo, and a sense, I think, of you get suffocated by what is going on. It becomes relentless. And in this way, it affects you. I don't think the effect comes from psychological impact of hostility that you feel from the stands. It's more how it transfers to the home side and how it's able to go beyond what it normally does. Despite having named Millwall and nodded along to Crystal Palace, I think there is something about these stadiums as well that ellen road and the stadium of light they kind of hulk over you as stadiums and and you feel that on the tv as well in a way that those grounds uh that selhurst park and the new den don't and yeah i i still agree with with philippe as well that that that it does seem to get that extra 10 out of out of the home side and and also just a word for Anton Stach.

11:07Do you know his father, Archie? No, why? Oh, okay, because on the commentary they said he's a very well-known football and tennis journalist in Germany. And so I took a note going, I wonder if Archie knows Anton Stach's dad. He could have been a tennis player, Stach. And then he chose football. Should you know his dad? Anyway, talk about the player because I was really impressed with him. Maybe I've met. Well, it was his shot that caused this penalty as well. And he had a couple of shots from range. And he's been in the discussion to play more for Germany, but has got too many people ahead of him right now.

11:50And I think that will still remain the case, particularly with Josue Kimmich being mooted for the central midfield spots, again, by Julian Nagelsmann. but he's got such great anticipation on the ball and his timing of the timing of his tacklings. I guess that's what anticipation is. You look at the way that he's able to have the game in, like have a really good overview of the game and see how things are going. And he's been a very stable player for Hoffenheim in the last two seasons in a team which has been very chaotic. And I think that actually those are good characteristics to have when you're going into this kind of organized chaos that Daniel Farker was demanding of his team.

12:42So, yeah, I think a very impressive debut. Matthias Stack is his dad. And his grandfather was a wrestler called Giant Hay.

12:58Just a quick word about a player that I absolutely love to watch and who genuinely looks like he's playing in the wrong team and it's young NDI again. The only things that actually made me feel somewhat sympathetic towards Everton last night, which is strange, is the way that he was trying to make things happen. He was trying to go past players. He was proactive. He's got absolutely beautiful feet, but I wonder what he's doing in that team. You really have to wonder what he's doing if they're going to play that way. And which is a pity. He's an absolutely lovely player. I'm sure the Everton fans absolutely love him.

13:34But honestly, the fact that he couldn't produce anything, he would manage to go past two players, create some space. There was nobody to pass the ball to. There was nobody to receive the ball in the box. There never was a solution for him. So even when they made a little difference, thanks to a bit of individual brilliance or skill, there was still nothing to build on. it's really awful yeah and actually barry you know because you predicted ever since ago down but and despite the you know the atmosphere at leeds if you're going to a game if you're going to leeds and you're going to sort of play that defensively there are a lot of teams in the premier league that are on paper better than leeds like everton fans i think who've come in buoyed with his enthusiasm and greelish that might be quite a sort of that's just you know it's a reality check i know it's only the first game but i i think there might be less enthusiasm now look it's one game and they weren't good and they do need signings.

14:28But we've seen Everton be down amongst the dead men at a far later point in the season in previous years and they always seem to circle the drain, but they never go down.

14:45You know, they might struggle this season. I think they will... I've seen Everton fans predict them to finish as high as seventh, eighth, and I cannot see that happening at all. It's great that two of the promoted teams have won already, and hopefully it will be much more competitive at that end of the Premier League, unless, of course, Sunderland and Leeds embark on mid-table or higher. Leeds need a striker desperately. They really, really do. Can I ask you a question, Max? Can I ask you, what the hell is this thing about Harrison? Why is he so hated? Because he actually went on loan to Everton and then he came back to Leeds.

15:27I just don't understand. He's a wonderful player. He actually had a real impact when he came on for Leeds. And what they hate about him is the fact that when they were relegated, he was loaned out to Everton and then has come back. I mean I'm sorry but I can't get my head around this one did he say something disrespectful I don't know I don't know but but it did for a while because I obviously had I had you know one eye on this and one eye on whatever the Australian spin-off Lloyd Griffith's spin-off of Death in Paradise on the on the big tv uh I just presumed he was playing for Everton until I looked down oh he's playing for Leeds that's interesting isn't it Bournemouth have signed Ben Doak had a great season at Middlesbrough has a very good in a Scotland shirt um and perhaps will replace Wattaro who's gone to Brentford speaking of Brentford Johan Wisser has done a very modern footballer thing and has removed all association with Brentford from his Instagram account I saw someone say why are footballers now acting more and more like 14 year olds after a booty breakout exactly got to keep our eyes on producer Joel's Insta account when he removes that Christian Romero signed a new deal at Spurs keeping it until 2029 I presume he has a release clause but perhaps surprised that he didn't go to Atleti this summer you know he's won the World Cup Messi likes him it's a good thing for Tottenham Archie a fuller minute presume the 96th minute at the annex is the minute you'd like to talk about I'm so stunned that it's come so early yeah I know yeah Rodrigo Mooneys Money Mooneys my heart sings I've spoken about him before but I'll gladly speak about him again because he arrived four years ago back up to Alexander Mitrovic and took him a while to settle.

17:12He was sent out on loan to Middlesbrough where he had a very unhappy season-long loan and people were wondering, well, is he ever going to make it? And then when he scores away at Burnley, season before last, he breaks down in tears because of the emotion of it all. And I think seeing that really took him into the hearts of many Fulham fans, as did the goal streak that he then went on. And last season, scoring seven goals off the bench, nine in total. And there's been all this talk about him going to Atalanta and us Fulham fans have been up in arms. We don't want Rodrigo to go. So the fact that he scores in the 96th minute, away at Brighton coming off the bench, and then a scarf is thrown to him and he holds it up, which says, come on Fulham.

18:00And everyone's talking about now, well, he can't leave. that's not the action of someone who would want to leave, is it? Sky Sports reports this week that Rodrigo Muniz is still open to a move to Champions League Atalanta. Oh, no. So, yeah, we're still sweating a bit, but it was very nice to see. And, yeah, I think Fulham will be fine this season. I think, as Barry says, 11th. He predicted it last season. I think we're probably about there again. Not a problem with it. Does Muniz have still open to going to Atalanta on a season? Is that his bio? Yeah. The social media, the social media of Mooney's suggests that he's happy as well.

18:41It's a painful 12 days ahead, Max. Okay, really? Keep staring at it. All right, that'll be for part one. Sid Lowell will join us for part two.

18:54Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Ben says, can the halftime extravaganza at the live show be the pod regulars singing the monorail song from the Simpsons? Oh, absolutely. we're in with rehearsals already every day and then we're doing Hamilton to finish it all off uh the 11th of September the Troxie in London Jonathan Wilson, Nicky Bandini, Johnny Lou, Barry of course tickets can be purchased at theguardian.com slash football weekly live we are live streaming the show as well producer Joel yesterday had a brilliant idea so uh that is worth the ticket alone but you know unless you come you won't know welcome then Sid Lowe Hello.

19:32Great. It's nice to have you on. Shall we start with Barca beat Mallorca 3-0 away from home? The front three, Ferran, Rafinha, Jamal all scored. It's quite a good start to the season, really. Yeah, it is. The context to this, or at least maybe context isn't quite the right word, but the focus to this has really all been about the refereeing decisions. And in particular one in which Barcelona scored a goal while Antonio Reira, the central defender from Mallorca, was on the floor holding his head because he'd headed away a shot. I say he'd headed away a shot. It's a mad decision. It hit him very, very hard and he collapsed the floor.

20:07I think you could probably get away with this decision if you just don't give anything. But the referee kind of puts his whistle in his mouth and sort of looks at him for about five or six seconds and actually looks as if he has given it. And when it drops to Ferran, he scores in a very kind of, oh, he's blown it, sod it. I'll just put this in the top corner sort of way rather than a real shot, if you so. I mean, it's a brilliant shot for it's worth. and then suddenly it's given the whole stadium's like oh hang on um so that annoys Mallorca is the second goal of of a pretty good staff for Barcelona anyway that then gets because of the the annoyance and the arguments about it it gets the first of a double yellow card for uh for Murray he then gets sent off uh Vedat Morici gets sent off so Barcelona end up playing against nine men and in the last minute you mean Lamine Jamal almost called in you mean Lamal which everyone's doing these days it's turned into a tongue twister scores a brilliant brilliant winner so the focus then becomes him a little bit as well but it's a good start for for barcelona yeah i mean it's a mad decision isn't it because he is he's not unconscious but he is just so flat on the floor like man flat on the floor it look when you just look at a picture thinking that looks weird and i mean i guess there must be you know afterwards you know somebody saying well if they'd been the other way around they'd have blown that sort of feeling as the smaller club Of course.

21:28Yeah. I mean, in a way, that's the problem. Well, it's not the problem. Obviously, the fundamental problem is whether or not decisions are right and how well games are refereed. But then you get, if you like, the problem that goes with it. And this is always the case. I guess it's the case everywhere, that question of a bigger club. But in Spain, even more so, of course, because everything is seen through the prism of refereeing favours, through the prism of, oh, they all support Real Madrid, or they all support Barcelona, and depending on which side of the divide you're on, you then kind of make a big thing about this obviously in the Barcelona case the the sort of the background for this story is still the the famous Negreda case when Barcelona were playing vice president of the referees committee over I think it was 17 years and so that kind of rears its head all the time even though it's kind of no longer relevant and the other part of this Max is that this summer Spain did a complete overhaul of the refereeing system series of things changed so for example that they don't name the referees now until one day before the game as a way of trying to protect them from from this kind of constant onslaught of of attacking the build-ups of the game and that's a response really to round your tv who do these very kind of deep voice dramatic videos about what an evil man the referee is and how he's going to screw us this weekend and they and they they say they do that they've done that change they've changed it now so that the VAR referees are only VAR referees so in theory they will be specialists and it's run by different people there's there's a free man committee now that names the referee for the games but my favorite change to the refereeing structure and I'm glad actually that you brought up the referees at the very start which I always try and avoid the referee thing but I really love this particular change the refereeing structure Spain had this weird thing and they've now changed it and it seems even weirder in the past referees in Spain were always known by two names and that's their two surnames Spanish people have two surnames their father's surname and their mother's surname and were known by their two surnames only.

23:21So, for example, you would have the referee, so bad they named him twice, Mr. Anandeth Anandeth. And the referees were known by their two surnames. This summer, in a bid to humanise the referees, they decided, we're not doing this anymore. We're going to call the referees by their first name and their surname. So the guy that screwed Mallorca at the weekend, last year they would have blamed Munoera Montero. This year they blamed Jose Luis Munoera. Right. So it's totally changed everything. It's absolutely fine now. Now, obviously, for a country that loves to call people sons of bitches, you're now saying, well, which are the two sons?

23:54Hang on, who's the person in question here? Anyway, so don't worry. Everything's fine because referees are now known by only one of their sign-ins and their first names. You can now call them Dave or Barry. It's absolutely fine. I look forward to when it's just their first name. And as you know, the referee is just Juan. And you're like, OK, great. This is really personal now, isn't it? What is it? Rashford came on and he came on down the middle because presumably he's not going to displace Rafinha or Yamal. What's his, you know, how is he being viewed at the moment? Well, I mean, the answer to the question is presumably he's not going to replace Rafinha or Lamine is that he is occasionally.

24:34And I think fundamentally his value to them is that he allows them to rotate through all of those forward positions in theory. Now, obviously, you guys have seen him play a lot more than me and whether or not he's really suited to playing on the right-hand side and how suited he is to playing through the middle in a team that kind of is technical in tight spaces. I think probably, my feeling at least is, and to correct me if I'm wrong, that he'd be good through the middle in a team that can go beyond people, but maybe in those tight spaces less so. So he came on in the middle of the weekend, but then went out to the left a couple of times.

25:06I think the main thing really is that he gives them variety and volume in the forward line and can play in any of those three positions. Because for what it's worth, a more natural replacement for Lewandowski up front is for Antares, who started there this weekend. So I think Rashford's role will be a bit of all of those things. And then I guess there will then be a response to kind of how well he plays in certain positions. Because I think it's not impossible, for example, that we see him take Rafinha's place on the left and that it's Rafinha that comes inside. And it's Rafinha that plays a little bit more centrally.

25:36I thought he looked a little bit out of place, which I suppose is natural on the first weekend. Had a couple of moments, but not a huge amount. And I think that's it really from a Barcelona point of view, is that Rushford is there to be useful and maybe to turn out to be really, really good. But to begin with, at least, to be useful. The big surprise was Atleti losing. What did you make of that? I feel like we're in this kind of cycle where we have these conversations all the time. everybody in Spain about Atletico Madrid evolving into something different and being different and being on the front foot and now that they've got money and now that they're not this able to play this underdog game and and the talk about going direct and being strong and fighting against the power because they spent a hell of a lot of money I think it's 300 and 338 million euros if I remember rightly across the last two summers now they bought a load of players this summer again they're attacking players they very much went for young players and for about 70 minutes against España I know they played on the front foot.

26:31They were a bit more attacking. And then it kind of fell apart. They got caught out. They're a little bit lucky. I'm lucky, I suppose, in a way. They got caught out by a couple of deliveries. One a set play, another a cross from the right-hand side. And conceded two goals and then sort of didn't know what to do. I also think that eternal debate about who are they, what they want to be, how they want to play will be there. But I think they were actually reasonably good in this game without being brilliant. I think that's the other thing that happens with Atletico, is that when they do play on the front foot, I think people exaggerate it.

27:04And I also think people sometimes exaggerate how defensive they are when they're not playing on the front foot. I think there's this kind of, it's almost kind of a, there's this sort of truism about Atletico Madrid. And they got caught out by an Espanol side, who I enjoyed this because they basically played a bit direct. And talking to Markus Dimitrovic after the game, the goalkeeper, this is brilliant. and basically he said, well, you've got to play Brexit football. That's such a cliche that I just use there, so sorry. So, you know, a couple of big guys up front and put the ball in the box can cause you problems.

27:37So there you go. I just wanted to ask, Sid, we take it as given that Diego Simeone just keeps on going at Atletico Madrid. But I just wanted to know from your perspective, how close has he ever come to leaving in the time that he's been there? Because I remember there's always a time when a big position would come up in European football and his name would be one of the ones linked. And I just wondered how close that has ever really come to happening. But also, what's the appetite, I guess, for just even more Simeone at Atletico? I mean, it's a really difficult question to answer because I think, look, the answer to it is that I think the first thing is the context, which is to say that I don't think the moment that Simeone goes really depends on another big job coming up.

28:24I don't think it's about that. I think it's about him and Atletico more than about that. I think there have been a couple of moments. Obviously, the really famous one was after the second European Cup final in Milan, which I think hurt him so much that he admitted that he was thinking about it. And everyone was desperate, desperate, desperate for him to say that. Now, that has shifted a little bit. And there have been moments over the last few years when people have thought, you know what, it maybe wouldn't be a bad thing if he walked, if we had a different approach, if there was a sort of freshening up of it.

28:52But I think what's happened, of course, and maybe there's a parallel with Wenger here. There's this idea that you can't push him out. He has to be allowed to make his decision because of everything he's done and everything he represents. And then in those moments when people start to think that, then there tends to be a moment when they start to play well again, when they start to really compete again. And people think, actually, maybe he is the right guy. I think if there was a way in which he could go and everyone feel like it was the right moment and the right time that that everybody could feel like it was nobody's fault and that's part of the problem is it is managing the departure how do you say goodbye how do you make this happen the right way then I think there is a way that people could kind of move on relatively easily but they absolutely love him of course and from a from a from a cynical club point of view I think he's been quite useful for the club in a way because he has been the guy if you like that that is everything that symbolizes everything so the club's mistakes can be hidden by behind him that he can be the guy that kind of holds it all together.

29:53Simeone said something I thought was quite interesting before the weekend's game. And he was asked about his time at the club. This is the beginning of his 15th season, albeit the first season was only six months. And he said that there's been times in my period here where the team grew quicker than the club and then the club caught up. He said, and then the club grew quicker than the team. So, you know, the amount of money being invested was better than what the team was doing and that the stability of the club I mean, because he's totally changed the club through their success. Obviously, that's about the club as well and about how much they can invest now and, you know, the new stadium and all of these kind of things.

30:28And he actually said before the weekend's games, he said it's now time that the team has to catch up with the club again. And I think that is a generalised feeling, that there is a degree of pressure that says, look, two summers in a row spending really big money. There needs to be a response to this. And last year they went 15 consecutive wins in La Liga. I think it was, if I remember rightly, 22 or 23 in all competitions in a position where it really looks like they're going to compete and then they have that European Cup knockout against Real Madrid with a double penalty and they completely collapse.