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In short
Football Weekly Extra panel discusses Liverpool’s 3-2 Champions League win over Atletico, focusing on their “late show” pattern: winning goals in stoppage and late minutes, driven by fitness, relentless intensity, and chance creation even when games aren’t wrapped up. Key claims include that the mentality becomes self-replicating, and that Virgil van Dijk’s winning header came from a needless corner; Simeone’s touchline red card is linked to an outburst after sustained abuse.
Notable examples
Van Dijk’s header vs Robin Le Normand; Salah’s diagonal runs and fluid attacking patterns; Wirtz/Leverkusen as a model for late-game hunting.
Guests
Barry Glendening, Max Rushden, Johnny Liew, Archie Wintat (football writers/analysts on The Guardian panel). Other matches: Bayern 3-1 Chelsea (Harry Kane’s 10 goals in 6; Michael Olise standout); PSG 4-0 Atalanta (Kvaratskhelia praised); Inter 2-0 Ajax; Bodo/Glimt’s 90th-minute equaliser; Swansea’s Carabao Cup injury-time comeback; plus Premier League weekend previews.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOLiverpool's Late Goals
0:49 to 1:21
Discussion about Liverpool's performance and late victories.
“As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once.”
Liverpool's Late Goals
1:24 to 2:11
Discussion about Liverpool's performance and late victories.
“Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.”
Panel Introductions
2:11 to 2:28
Introduction of the panel members for today's discussion.
“And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.”
Liverpool vs Atletico Madrid
2:28 to 4:28
In-depth analysis of Liverpool's match against Atletico Madrid.
“Second, but it's nice seeing you again, too.”
Simeone's Red Card Incident
4:28 to 5:20
Discussion regarding Simeone's reaction and red card during the match.
“I can't remember who gives it away, but Schoberslai is in and Bradley is putting the guy under pressure.”
Liverpool's Season Performance
5:20 to 8:05
Analysis of Liverpool's overall season performance and key players.
“get away from me, you ain't touching me kind of thing.”
Attacking Philosophy and Player Development
8:05 to 14:00
Discussion on Liverpool's attacking strategies and player dynamics.
“Verts especially, you started to see him link up with Sobber's eye and Salah looked better than I think I've seen him.”
Analyzing Dribbling Skills and Player Quality
14:00 to 15:24
Discussion on dribbling ability and player quality in football.
“not against the goalkeeper, in that I reckon they'd have the confidence to take the ball past them.”
Diego Simeone's Societal Commentary
15:24 to 16:48
Exploring Diego Simeone's remarks and their implications.
“Well, no, just briefly going back to Diego Simeone, after the game when he was sort of apologising for his outburst, He said, I know I cannot fix society.”
Bayern's Dominance Over Chelsea
16:48 to 18:56
Reviewing Bayern Munich's performance against Chelsea.
“where the locals have been that enthused.”
Show all 29 chapters
Harry Kane's Impressive Form
18:56 to 20:06
Discussing Harry Kane's performance and scoring record.
“Mark Aguero, you would put in the easy to boo box, wouldn't you?”
Chelsea's Structural Issues
20:06 to 21:16
Analyzing Chelsea's tactical structure and mistakes against Bayern.
“have scored 20 or more goals for two different clubs in the Champions League Ronaldo, Neymar and Harry Kane What did you make of Chelsea Johnny?”
Referee Decisions and Game Analysis
21:16 to 23:55
Examining key decisions and moments in the Chelsea vs Bayern match.
“Just from a Chelsea perspective, worth mentioning that they were very unhappy that Jonathan Tarr wasn't sent off in the build-up to Cole Palmer's goal for Chelsea.”
PSG's Ominous Performance
24:42 to 28:07
Discussing PSG's dominating win against Atalanta.
“Welcome to Part 2 of the Guardian Football Week.”
Inter's Important Win
28:07 to 29:50
Discussion on Inter's recent victory over Ajax and its significance.
“Inter won 2-0 in Amsterdam against Ajax.”
Bodo Glimt's Comeback
29:53 to 31:48
Analysis of Bodo Glimt's remarkable comeback against Prague.
“Great comeback for Bodo glimped in Prague.”
Olympiacos vs Paphos
31:49 to 33:18
Review of the goalless draw between Olympiacos and Paphos.
“Is that the ball over the top coming from his right and he chests it and then throws it in the top left?”
Benfica's Struggles and Coaching Changes
33:19 to 35:16
Discussion on Benfica's defeat and potential coaching changes.
“Is there a danger of oversaturation here?”
Ange Postacoglu's Challenges
35:17 to 36:38
Exploration of Postacoglu's difficulties with Nottingham Forest.
“would even begin to appoint in his place.”
Swansea's Dramatic Victory
36:39 to 38:43
Breakdown of Swansea's comeback and the pressures on Postacoglu.
“snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Swansea.”
Merseyside Derby Preview
38:44 to 42:01
Preview of the upcoming Merseyside derby and predictions.
“I think that, yeah, this spoke more of inside Ange going, I'm going to shut a few people up here.”
Everton's Performance Analysis
42:01 to 44:48
Discussion on Everton's unexpected successes and challenges ahead.
“They've been getting good results without, I think, playing particularly well.”
Arsenal vs. Manchester City Preview
44:49 to 45:56
Impact of match scheduling on Arsenal's upcoming game against City.
“to Saturday lunchtime, I know that they're both at Anfield, but physically, mentally, I think that's a big ask for Liverpool I think there's a good chance that Everton can hit them.”
Manchester United's Struggles
45:57 to 47:19
Insights into Manchester United's current poor form and their next match.
“I think that extra couple of days is going to it's a real help to Arteta.”
Brighton vs. Tottenham Analysis
47:20 to 48:38
Evaluating Tottenham's recent form and their challenges against Brighton.
“When he's reading, you know, Das Kapital to Patrick Dorgue or whatever, this isn't helping much.”
Fulham vs. Brentford Rivalry
48:39 to 51:13
A look into the Fulham and Brentford rivalry and upcoming fixtures.
“Brentford at home at the weekend and then Cambridge at home on Tuesday in the Carabao.”
Listener Questions and Wedding Dilemmas
51:14 to 53:18
Listeners share stories and dilemmas related to football and life events.
“Bournemouth, Newcastle, Wolves, Leeds as well.”
Listener Questions and Wedding Dilemmas
56:34 to 57:17
Listeners share stories and dilemmas related to football and life events.
“We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most.”
Listener Questions and Wedding Dilemmas
57:54 to 58:09
Listeners share stories and dilemmas related to football and life events.
“Could AI help you do more of what you love?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.
0:30Max Rushden:And the best part is you can spend the money you get right away anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. Every payment is secure and protected by Face ID, Touch ID, or Passcode, and your transactions are never shared on a public feed. Set up your Apple Cash today in the Wallet app. Apple Cash services are provided by Green.Bank, member FDIC. Terms apply. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears.
1:06Max Rushden:We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.
1:37Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. If football matches were 82 minutes long, they're not. Why do people say things like this? Liverpool would have no wins this season. Five games, they've won three in injury time. Fortunately for them, football matches are as long as they are. Virgil van Dijk, the hero last night against Atleti. Cue some vintage Diego Simeone. Chelsea lose convincingly and Munich defensively not at it against Elise Diaz and Kane. Also today, waves and waves of PSG as they demolish Atalanta. A solid win for Inter and a great comeback from Vodo. A sad injury time for Ange in Swansea.
2:06Two goals in injury time mean they're out of the Carabao Cup. We'll look ahead to the Premier League weekend, answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.
2:20On the panel today, Barry Glendening, hello. Hiya, Max. Johnny Lu, welcome. Hello. And Archie Wintat, nice to have you on. First of the season, I think, Archie. Second, but it's nice seeing you again, too. Oh, OK. Were you on yesterday, Archie? I'm sleep deprived. Saw you a few weeks ago, but it's always good to know that I leave a lasting impression. Football just never stops, Archie. But look, try better this time so I can remember that you're on. Oh, yes, we did a fuller minute. Of course, of course I remember now. Liverpool 3, Atletico Madrid 2. How do we, Johnny, how do we describe how Liverpool, are they getting away with this?
3:01Is this just a relentless sign of champions? Or is this just a coincidence? What, they're winning goals in the 92nd, 95th, 83rd, 100th and 88th minutes or going back chronologically this season? Well, there's a lot going on there.
3:13Jonathan Liew:I mean, I think these things become self-replicating after a while because of the mentality that they build. Slott talked about the fitness of the team. and I think that stylistically they are just quite, they are relentless. They don't have, you know, they don't seem to drop off. They seem to raise their game and raise their intensity towards the end of games. These all factor into it. I mean, the other point worth making is that Liverpool probably should have had that game wrapped up and sealed long before they needed a winning goal. And if you look at some of these late shows this season, Bournemouth, you could say that they probably should have won that.
3:51Jonathan Liew:Burnley, they should have won that quite easily, again, well before injury time. So it's not like they're sort of, with the potential exception of the Newcastle game, they're not really stealing these games. They are creating a weight of chances that you have to sense is going to tell at some point. And also starting games generally pretty well. They haven't been behind at all this season. But yeah, it does become self-fulfilling after a while. You know, opposition teams know what you're capable of. The Anfield crowd kind of senses something and they kind of raise their game. They raise their level.
4:28Jonathan Liew:It was a totally needless corner. I can't remember who gives it away, but Schoberslai is in and Bradley is putting the guy under pressure. And that's the corner from which Van Dijk converts it. Sometimes these things just go for you and they align. I was going to say that corner from which Van Dijk nods it in. On first glance, I was like, hang on. Why is that Atleti player marking Van Dijk? He looks way too small for him. Checks notes. Ah, that's their centre-back, Robin Le Normand. Robin Le Normand, yeah. He's one of my favourites. Robin Le Normand. And I was like, ah, okay. Well, he surely would be a good fit.
5:10Except I checked it. he's 12 kilos lighter than Van Dijk. And you just see this kind of push away as if it's kind of like the sibling, get away from me, you ain't touching me kind of thing. And then I'm thinking, well, surely Alexander Sourlott would have been a better choice to mark him. But yeah, these things in hindsight when Virgil van Dijk goes and heads the winner are easy to say. Or I would point out to Liverpool's slew of recent late goals that they've brought this mentality in from Bayer Leverkusen. This is what Leverkusen were doing two seasons ago with Florian Vietz and Jeremy Frimpong.
5:49So they have hit the lottery in terms of the amount of late winning goals that they have been on the pitch for now. I think as a player, you must be lucky if you enjoy this a couple of times, but they're well into double figures now. And like, what a drug that must be that you're just continually hunting down. Albeit, can it go on? And then I see the Mick McCarthy meme of, it can. Yeah, I mean, there's no better way to win a football match. And then, Barry, from that moment, it's a brilliant header from Van Dijk, isn't it? But then we have the Simeone moment, which is, you know, I think someone put it in the group, you know, filed under scenes you don't want to see, but you do want to see.
6:35Max Rushden:Oh, absolutely. You want to see them. he eventually got a red card because according to him he'd been being insulted and abused by a fan or some fans behind the dugout throughout the game then when Liverpool got the late winner one imagines the abuse escalated a notch and he reacted which he conceded he shouldn't have done but he does have previous let's say as a manager and as a player i would say the liverpool fan or fans who were giving him loads were probably quite lucky that there was several stewards there to get between simeoni and them and so yeah he got a red card for that yeah i think something or nothing yeah i mean he's giving the fans you guys i watched one video from like someone's filming it you are giving those fans exactly what they wanted.
7:35They are going, we did the right thing to yell at him. He said, obviously my reaction is not justifiable. I insulted him. It was 90 minutes of being insulted the whole time. Then you turn around when your opponent has scored and they're still insulting you. It's not that easy. The referee understood the situation. I hope that a team like Liverpool can improve that part. That was the nice line. Good luck with that. But Liverpool, I think, Barry, in this game, you started to see signs of and as Johnny's alluded to, they've been pretty good this season. But actually, I thought Verts especially, you started to see him link up with Sobber's eye and Salah looked better than I think I've seen him.
8:12So, you know, they're winning all their games but they started to click, I thought, a bit last night.
8:17Max Rushden:Yeah, they've been winning their games without playing as well as we know they can. They are making these wins more difficult than they need to be. I mean, this 3-2 scoreline really flattered Atletico, I think. Florian Verts, People have been sort of looking down their noses and saying, well, he's not all that, is he? Archie's clearly seen far more of him than the rest of us. But he was, I thought, excellent last night. I think he created four or five chances. He linked up well with Alex Izak. Izak, I thought, was decent while clearly looking off the pace. so that looked like the beginnings of a good relationship there.
9:04Max Rushden:Salah as well has been the subject of some disparaging remarks. I think people just want Salah to have a bad season because he's due one. And if this is a bad season for him, well, he's doing all right, isn't he? And I can only see him improving. I would be very happy with this performance if I was Arnaz Slopp, even though Liverpool had to leave it so late to win the game and only won 3-2. Because I think their performance was much better than a last-ditch 3-2-1 win. What I'd say on Wietz is that because he doesn't have the ego of most number 10s in that position where they feel like they have to have the ball all the time or they have to make it about themselves in the decisions that they take.
10:00He can sometimes go under the radar because the way that he plays and the decisions that he takes are what is the best for the team in this moment. He's capable of dribbling past a few players, but only if the situation calls for it. And I think that, yeah, it's one of the things that makes him unique and whether he continues to play like that at Liverpool is a question, but whether that will be appreciated is going to be a thing. Because also, if you look at the amount of big name attacking talent there in that Liverpool team, there are not enough goals and assists to go around for everybody to get the credit that they're going to want.
10:42Or indeed, that people are going to want for Florian Witts to have justified the£100 million plus fee. So I do think there's that. Just one thing on Atleti, they did have a lot of injuries last night. going into this. So to be honest, this was actually probably an okay result for them. The fact that they came within a whisker of getting a result at Anfield was remarkable. And the thing that Sid tweeted, which I think is brilliant, because Marcus Llorente scoring another double at Anfield and Sid revealed, Sid Lowe, of course, I think there's only one Sid in terms of this podcast. Well, actually, Sidney Poitier did a few of the early ones.
11:27Of course, I forgot. He said that Marcus Llorente has a dog called Anfield, which I think is great. Oh, really?
11:35Max Rushden:That was the famous game just before the original lockdown. Covid, was it? Covid. They had the Liverpool Athletic game and the Cheltenham Festival, which it was sort of widely perceived those events should not have been staged.
11:51Jonathan Liew:People say that game happened just before Covid. I think COVID is very much.
11:55Max Rushden:Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. You're probably right. Just on verse, Johnny, he's got this balance, hasn't he? And the ability to sort of take the ball in tight spaces and suddenly have yards of space that were definitely not there when he got the ball.
12:12Jonathan Liew:No, no, exactly. I think, you know, they call it taking it on the half turn, right? You know, your body is sort of at a 90-degree angle to the ball and the shape of your body and the first touch allows you to glide it with that first touch into the space that was previously there. Roots is very good at that. I mean, I think Isaac is very good at that as well. I thought, even though he didn't last, he didn't get to the hour, I thought the way he held up the ball and the way he wants to take it in tight spaces and the way that draws defenders towards him, it creates space around him. I think that's a very exciting development for Liverpool.
12:48Jonathan Liew:philosophy this season is um certainly is attacking for philosophy is to basically flood flood the box with players and when they you know when there are five or six players rushing into the area it's a terrifying thing but also it's quite a chaotic thing and the that that sort of needs to be worked out you can't really you can train for that kind of thing but you basically just need to keep doing it in different situations until everyone learns who needs to go where Salah's goal is a perfect example when Salah gets that ball in that sort of slightly withdrawn spot on the right wing. He's looking for the diagonal into goal.
13:20Jonathan Liew:He is going on that diagonal and he wants little layoffs. He wants little give and goes. He wants dummies. And you get out of his way. That's the kind of thing that someone like Eketike or Isak will learn over time. And once it all clicks, I do think there was a huge amount of potential in that attack. Not just the talent, but the way Slott will get them combining. We saw glimpses of that. Do we think to a level actually where no one will get near them? Not necessarily in the Champions League, but the ceiling is so high for a team that have won all five games. It's how dynamic they are. Johnny talks about it there with the half turns.
13:57And it's just the amount of players there who you would back in one-on-one situations against opponents, not against the goalkeeper, in that I reckon they'd have the confidence to take the ball past them. And dribbling, I believe, is the actual phrase that we use. I think that's the frightening thing, I think, for many defenders, because there's always this talk of, can they break down a low block? And it's like, well, how many of these players just have the ability to go, well, I can dribble past you, or if not, I've probably got the skill to stick it in the top corner. So, yeah, the fact that Hugo Eketike comes on and is, you know, the striker in reserve on this night tells you about the quality.
14:43One thing I would say, though, that second goal from Mo Salah, I didn't think that Graven Versch actually meant to play the ball through to Salah. I think he kind of mistouches it, but he just kind of holds his posture and he goes, yeah, yeah, no, of course, of course, because the ball kind of gets away from him. But that's the thing is because it's so fluid and so quick, Everything looks like it's meant. And yeah, they are pretty tasty. Yeah, actually that move where I think they played it out the back, I think Van Dyke did something brilliant as usual. And then Wurtz and Sobber's Lie and it ended up with Salah hitting the post.
15:21And you thought, oh, that would have been a really, that would have been a beautiful goal, wouldn't it? And Barry, unless you were poised to say something, I'm going to move on.
15:26Max Rushden:Well, no, just briefly going back to Diego Simeone, after the game when he was sort of apologising for his outburst, He said, I know I cannot fix society. And I think, I reckon you could probably give it a good go. And if you look at society in its current form, if Diego Simeone, for some reason, stepped down from Atletico Madrid, I would like to see him go around this man in black going to Elon Musk or going to the White House and doing his damnedest to fix society. I think he might do a better job than he thinks. The purge. It's like the purge.
16:08Jonathan Liew:Diego Simeone has one night to fix society. And then when he does, he gets to run down the touchline. Grab his crotch. He runs straight off. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't shake hands with anyone. He just disappears straight down the tunnel. You never see him again. Bayern 3-0 Chelsea 1. Probably Chelsea's toughest game in the group stage. It seemed more than fair 3-1, I thought this, Archie. I think so. From a Bayern perspective, very encouraging that they were able to dominate for such long periods against what is a good team. The fact that they were able to play the kind of football where I can't remember all A's around the Allianz Arena for a very long time, where the locals have been that enthused.
16:59and I think the star of the show for me was Michael Alise. He has continually stepped up his level ever more increasingly at Bayern since he arrived last summer and what he was doing to Marco Correa kind of reminded me of, you know, how those Turkish ice cream men go, here's your ice cream. Oh, no, I put a little bit on your nose. Like just the way he kept on taking the ball away from him And Kukurea, I did feel a little bit of sympathy for him for how ruthlessly whistled that he continues to be in Germany when I think people here need to understand he didn't make the decision for the handball against Germany in the Euros, which is what this is all going back to.
17:49the fact that he handled the ball and the penalty wasn't given. So because the referee's not there, people in Germany are going like, they take their anger out on Kukurea. And Michael Alise picked up the most popular yellow card seen at Bayern in recent years for a foul on him and was continually, I think, it was bullying, to be honest. From a Bayern perspective, when they are still missing key players, I know Chelsea can say the same thing, but Jamal Musiala is out with a long-term injury. Alphonso Davies is out with a long-term injury. The fact that they're bringing on their fourth choice right back just after halftime, which is when I thought, uh-oh, things could start to turn towards Chelsea's favour here.
18:28And instead, Bayern played some of their most fluid football. And I think that's a really good sign for Vincent Kompany when you're bringing on a player who everyone's written off, apart from you, in Sacha Boué this is, and the supposed weakest link of your team is playing well. I think that speaks to the strength of your team. I hadn't written Sasha Boae off, but until 15 seconds ago, I was not totally aware of Sasha Boae's existence. So that may have something to do with it. Mark Aguero, you would put in the easy to boo box, wouldn't you? He's easy to sort of understand why you might boo him.
19:04Without wanting to do this kind of question to you, Barry, Harry Kane is good, isn't he?
19:09Max Rushden:He is, Max, yeah. He's now got 10 goals in six games this season. He's got 95 in 102 for Bayern. it must be very exciting to see him banging them in as an England, you being an England fan with a World Cup ahoy. But it's not just his finishing. He spent a lot of last night doing that thing he gets criticized for doing when he's in an England shirt, which is dropping deep, trying to link up play, blah, blah, blah, with runners going past either side of him. so when he does that for England and they lose he gets criticised for it but when it works as it did last night he's superb he's just getting better and better I mean I still have reservations about Harry Kane but I thought his performance last night was as near to perfect as you're going to get Yeah only three players have scored 20 or more goals for two different clubs in the Champions League Ronaldo, Neymar and Harry Kane What did you make of Chelsea Johnny?
20:14Jonathan Liew:Structurally I thought there wasn't a huge amount wrong with them i mean if if maresca looks back at that he will say okay well the the penalty is a bit a bit soft uh gusto gives the ball away for the third goal and you know that's an individual mistake and the first goal i think they end up with joao pedro defending left back against against elise because of a breakdown of a set-piece situation so i you know structurally i don't think there's there's too much wrong there we saw the power of of palmer on the break we saw lots of flashes of of real promise for chelsea when when they managed to counter bayon so in terms of in terms of that i don't think there's too much wrong i still think that chelsea have a little bit of an issue playing through a really good press and bayon do do have a really good press i think there there is the potential for little mistakes to creep in there uh i don't i don't think that's quite locked in casado gets gets them out of trouble quite a lot i think has needed to but i i think you know i do rate chelsea i think they've started the season pretty well uh so i don't think there's a huge amount to worry about like like you said that is their hardest fixture i do just want to mention sorry before archie comes i do just want to mention that the camera angle at the alliant is absolute nonsense i mean that that is like did you know it's really low it's basically like like you're watching it from just behind the dugouts it's absolute park football so i just i wanted to to register my dismay at that oh i'm do you know it's interesting i'd never i haven't spent enough time thinking about that because camera angles are you know that i can really get you know on a high horse about like too high or too low is well they should have got on a higher horse maybe that would have yeah that would have helped him if the cameraman although trickier to be steady on that you know then it would look like ref cam for the whole game if if if the man on the doing the wide shot is on a horse actually wanted to come in on something perhaps more important, but perhaps not.
22:03Just from a Chelsea perspective, worth mentioning that they were very unhappy that Jonathan Tarr wasn't sent off in the build-up to Cole Palmer's goal for Chelsea. That's nonsense. I agree with you, Johnny. I saw Gio Pedro pulling at Jonathan Tarr's shirt first. And from what I saw, Tarr is trying to wriggle free from him. I say this because Enzo Mareska made a big play of it in his post-match interview, saying that, I mean, if there's not blood, then it can't be a red card apparently these days, which I thought was a bit far. Would be a strange rule, wouldn't it? Producer John made a good point about Cole Palmer scoring that goal, the 89th minute one, you know, that was disallowed.
22:55It was a great ball and a lovely finish. But if you are chasing the game, you need to get the ball and not do your novelty celebration. And of all the celebrations, you cannot pick up a ball if you're doing the Kale-Kalma. He's really limiting himself there. That should be reserved for equalising at the very least. It's got to be an equalising goal, that, I think. And yeah, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do the rest of the Champions League.
23:22Max Rushden:As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.
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24:42Welcome to Part 2 of the Guardian Football Week. PSG 4 Atalanta 0 I mean Barry this was sort of ominous and we talked about Liverpool being ominous but I mean PSG it looked like I only watched the highlights it was basically PSG cutting through Atalanta over and over and over again Well now Max
24:58Max Rushden:before we get into the weeds of this one I have to ask do you know who the Atalanta manager is?
25:09So it was Gasparini. Yep, it was. For about 20 years. I can give you a clue.
25:18Max Rushden:Their manager is the man who I'm pretty sure you can't remember who took over from Russell Martin at Southampton last season. Ivan Urich? Yes! Hold on. Thanks, I enjoyed the quiz. I'm happy with what I've won. I've got it. I really thought you'd have forgotten Ivan Urich. but he's done well to get that gig, hasn't he? Anyway, as I said, Barry, I mean, he didn't do much to stem the PSG tide, did he, Ivan? No, I'll be honest. Before this game, I thought Atalanta might win. PSG, they're starting to pay the price of having a one-week off-season. I think they've lost a couple of players, Dwey, Dembele, Beraldo out injured.
26:06Max Rushden:I think Dwayne, Dembele are muscle injuries. Maybe they'd have got muscle injuries anyway. I don't know. But I gave Atalanta a squeak of winning this. And how wrong I was. Because it would be charitable to say they were incredibly lucky to win. Or to only lose 4-0. As you say, PSG cut through them at will. Nuno Mendes missed a sitter. Korneski, the Atalanta goalkeeper, made some superb saves, but it was just a routine evisceration on Atalanta by PSG. A hugely impressive performance. Kvaratschalia's goal, Johnny, was totally delightful, wasn't it?
26:50Jonathan Liew:I watched several times, actually, I watched a compilation of Kvaratscalia's performance. Like someone had made a Kvaratscalia compilation from last night set to classical music. Ah, classical music. Yeah, I watched that several times. We talked about Elysee earlier in the last part. Players like Elysee and Lamine and Kvaratscalia are the players who are currently setting the standard for wing play in Europe. i think you know that there is a lot of prem faced uh we talk about palmer we talk about saka boden as well who seems to have totally dropped off they are not currently operating on a level anywhere near i think these players that is uh yeah and kvart scalia incredible incredible feet incredible touch incredible vision pace uh i'm not just doing the alan shearer thing where you name attributes uh influence set pieces uh just just reading off reading off the yeah the football manager list anticipation injury proneness expected to move abroad at the end of the season yeah yes wnt wanted um so uh yeah i mean i think he he is good isn't he he's excellent uh lewis and rique in a sling because he recently underwent surgery on a collarbone injury injury uh after falling off his bike.
28:13So yeah, I wish him well. Inter won 2-0 in Amsterdam against Ajax. Two corners, two headers, two goals. A very League One highlights package from this one, Archie. It was. Hakan Chalinola is really good at taking set pieces as it turns out again. And yeah, this was, I think, an important win for Inter in the context of their season after the way they lost against Juventus at the weekend in what was such a thrilling ride. And also, I think that going into that Champions League final last season, Inter's reputation had grown again so much, and such was the way that they lost to PSG. I think that it was less a defeat, it was more a humiliation.
29:03And I think that there is some rebuilding work to be done here for them. I don't know if I place Ajax as not an easy place to go because Ajax are not the team that they were a few seasons ago. But still, this is, I think, a very healthy result. And considering the intervals, I had a change of coach in the summer, that they do. I think that the Champions League final showed that they do need to undergo some changes and some youthfulness needs to be brought in. That, I think, yeah, is coming. But yeah, a good start. There was some good VAR in this game where, was it Turan was pulling someone's shirt and then they pulled him down and he got a penalty and Michael Oveva changed his decision.
29:50So we should occasionally say it's sometimes good. Great comeback for Bodo glimped in Prague. They were 2-0 down with 12 minutes left and equalised in the 90th minute. It was some strike that, Johnny, wasn't it? From someone called, what's his first name?
30:03Jonathan Liew:Sondre Brunstadt-Fett. which does look a little bit like a like the anagram that you get the anagram round of a pub quiz where you have to you have to anagram it into a Sondra Brunstadt hang on is that that it's that Fenchurch Street on what two years but we talk about we talk about Zidane against Leverkusen in the 2002 final at Ampton Park and this was this was basically you know better it was better than that uh better than that wow it's better than that what it's the 90th minute of the game to equalize when you've been two nil down and i'm sorry i think it's not the champions league final is it i mean i know but also he's not zidane like it's like i think it's cheating not cheating i think zidane should get a lot gets minus points for having zidane's talent i think that's a little bit it's a little bit unfair on everyone else do you expand that that basically there should be like a handicap system in football so that, you know, your Kvarachalias have to be sort of weighed down.
31:04Jonathan Liew:In certain categories, right, when you're judging how spectacular or how impressive a goal is, I think the fact that you are not Zidane but doing a Zidane-like goal and you're Sondra Brunstadt-Fett or Fenchurch Street, then I think we have to award bonus points for that. This touches on something that has actually been, you know, beating in my heart for a while. I'm really glad you've brought this up, Johnny, because it still irks me to this day that when Pytin Kasami scored the goal of the century for Fulham away at Crystal Palace, he didn't win goal of the month because Jack Wilshere in Arsenal did something which was quite nice.
31:44Like, no, no, Pytin Kasami's goal will never happen again. I remember that goal, yeah. Is that the ball over the top coming from his right and he chests it and then throws it in the top left? Exactly. Oh, Arsenal scored quite a sexy team goal. No, no, no, no. It was a good goal. It was a... As you can see, I processed it well. Joel says, that also counts as your Fulham minute, I'm afraid. Olympiacos nil, Paphos nil. I didn't catch this, Barry. Did you catch it?
32:15Max Rushden:My notes for this game are, in their entirety, Olympiacos should have won Bruno sent off a second yellow Pafos I think he's a Brazilian and David Luiz plays for Pafos I did not know that and he got injured I like when you don't know the position you just say Pafos bloke I would go with player to cover my back more than just bloke but there you go So, look, they've already beaten three sides on their way to get to the group stage. It's their first point in Champions League history. So, well done to Paphos playing for an hour with 10 men in Greece. Tonight, games include Newcastle, Barca and Man City, Napoli.
33:02Apologies to these teams for not fitting into the Guardian Football Weekly schedule. But, you know, playing on a Thursday night.
33:09Max Rushden:I think, Max, they should be apologising to us. Yes, I agree, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I completely agree. Well, UEFA. Perhaps it's UEFA's fault.
33:17Jonathan Liew:We're not doing a Friday pod for these. Could we go to four pods? Are we like EastEnders? Is there a danger of oversaturation here? I mean, I think that ship is set when we went to three, Johnny. But we did discuss doing a Friday one. It just doesn't quite work with me or Barry's schedule, if we're being honest. But yes, as producer Joel says, a Sunday omnibus where we do all the pods again. Word for word. Why not? Anyway, we'll talk about those on Monday's pod, which we're recording on Sunday night to suit my schedule. So thanks, everyone. So it'll be out early for you on Monday or late on Sunday.
33:57Elsewhere, the Carabag defeat for Benfica proved too much for Bruno Large. And they've sacked him and are in talks with Jose Mourinho to go into the dugout. Yes, Johnny.
34:10Jonathan Liew:Have you heard, there's some talk in Portugal that Benfica might have a cheeky punt at Ruben Amorim for that job. Oh, really? And that United, obviously they don't want to sack him because he's on a huge compensation. But if they waived their compensation, it allows them to get rid of him and allows Amorim to save face a little bit. He can go back to a big club in Portugal. This is just some of the, you know, a theory that has been put to me. And I don't know, it makes a little bit of sense. Yeah, it sort of feels like everybody would be happy, right? Right, exactly. You know, I mean, Amram does, obviously, he doesn't want a sacking on his CV as much as he's trying to, he seems to be trying to get sacked at points with some of his comments.
34:59Jonathan Liew:But also, you know, it allows United to kind of, oh, well, you know, he wants to go back to Portugal. how could we compete with the mighty Benfica?
35:10Max Rushden:If Amorim did, if that did happen, I have no idea who Manchester United would even begin to appoint in his place. I just looked. Glasner is the favourite with Southgate's second favourite.
35:24Jonathan Liew:Right. What? That makes sense, kind of. Glasner would make sense. Glasner would make sense because they don't want the ball. and he plays 3-4-2-1. Surely they want to find some. Surely these players have proved in the last however many months that they really can't play 3-4-2-1. So actually the last thing you want is someone who plays 3-4-2-1 or do you think he can do it better than Amarim? I don't know. Maybe he's just... Maybe he is just... Maybe Amarim should... Maybe the problem isn't 3-4-2-1. Maybe the problem is that Amarim isn't doing it very well. Maybe the problem is not the idea but the man and once you truly perfect the idea of 3-4-2-1.
36:01Jonathan Liew:In order for true Stalinism to emerge, Stalin had to get out of the way. It was only really Khrushchev who could take Stalin's work and bring it to its full fruition. Maybe Glasner is that Khrushchev. Possibly the first time Ruben Amram has been compared to Stalin in how he's dealt with. I can't believe we've gone from football manager to Stalin in five minutes. This is sensational. This is the Guardian Football Weekly.
36:29Max Rushden:Is Amarim's a five-year plan or was he expected to do it a bit quicker? Good point. Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin with Nottingham Forest and Anz Postacoglu snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Swansea.
36:53Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. As we're in the Carabao Cup last night, one game, 2-0 up, ended up losing 3-2 to Swansea. Two goals in injury time. I mean, Barry, it is worth the third, the injury time winner is doubly spectacular, isn't it, for Swansea?
37:08Max Rushden:Yeah, I've only seen the goals from this game, but Swansea bloke cracked one off the post. Galbraith. Sorry, who scored it? Cameron Burgess. Swansea bloke, Cameron Burgess. So Swansea bloke cracks one off the post. Cameron Burgess had more or less turned away, waiting for either the final whistle or play. And then it's almost as if he heard the crack off the post and went, oh, hold on, and turned back and then just rifled home the winner. Brilliant result. It's such a pure strike. It's such an amazing kick of a football, isn't it? And it was so casually done as well. You talk about technique. unique but it literally just oh hold on oh boom and what a way to win a game yeah i mean it's so good for swan poor old ang there's something about the way that josh time on um has seen the ball hit the the angle of post and bar there and you see him in one of the replays with his head with his hands on his head and even when burgess has struck the ball his hands are still on his head the ball needs to hit the net to end his disbelief of what this is what has just happened I cannot think when have there been two finer clearer strikes of a ball in succession yeah like that and I'm sure that that was also the thought passing through Ange Postacoglu's head somewhere in the recesses of it because the other part of him looked to be saying what did I agree to do again why am I here which I think is is to be honest a valid question when I this is this is not the job you take after what he'd just done at Spurs I don't think so this is no no you don't take over from the best coach Nottingham Forest have had in their recent history since Vinnie Davis as we established the expectations that you're working with when you've just seen extraordinary things achieved with a team which would have done very well even if Nuno had continued to ascend the heights that they had done.
39:30I think that, yeah, this spoke more of inside Ange going, I'm going to shut a few people up here. I'm going to prove them wrong rather than taking the right job for him.
39:43Jonathan Liew:I think it matters that his kids are at school in London and so he didn't want to he didn't want to relocate he didn't want to move further afield and when when this job came up i think i think that's that's one of the reasons that's interesting and we quite often forget you know real life things that are happening to to humans uh or you know nottingham forest bloke in this uh situation i mean and maybe you know sometimes you can be unlucky right obviously every time someone hits the post with a great strike and it comes back for a rebound that rebound is ballooned into rosette like that is like the law of football that's where it goes and then it's 2-2 and it's a penalty shootout look they had made lots and lots of changes we might as well start our premier league preview with them then they go to burnley uh on saturday i mean i don't know where johnny on the sort of must win scale for ang this is yeah i well i think he's uh that that that defeat last night will have raised a bit of pressure on him i think slightly unfairly because you know the guy's been in charge for two games and one of them was against Arsenal, who are probably the best team in the country at the moment.
40:47Jonathan Liew:And one of them was with a much changed team, as we talked about. And I think they showed... It was so beautiful, actually. ...elements. Was it their second goal? I think that was proper back to front. When he talked about it'll be Wednesday, it won't be this huge project. You'll see our style on Wednesday. That's kind of what he meant. So Burnley, obviously, a much different kind of prospect just because of the way that we know that they will defend, the way that we know that they will approach the game, and the fact that Forrest will have to make the running. They will be under pressure to break them down.
41:30Jonathan Liew:And Burnley will quite happily, as Forrest did, actually, to a lot of teams last season, just say, look, we'll break you down and we've got players who can counter us. So a different kind of test. and I think it'll be a good measure of where their developments are. Two really big games this weekend. The early game on Saturday is the Merseyside derby, Barry. So in what minute did Liverpool score their winner, do you think? Are you about to say, I think Everton will win? Is that what I wonder?
41:54Max Rushden:No, I don't think Everton will win, but I don't think I'd be massively shocked if they... No, I would be surprised if they did. Everton are a bit odd. They've been getting good results without, I think, playing particularly well. Their first home game at Hill Dickinson, I thought Brighton were much the better team and Everton still won that game. What was it, the 3-2 against Wolves, I thought they were a little bit lucky. I suppose my judgment is clouded and influenced by the fact that I predicted they'd have a very bad season and now it's looking like they won't. Jack Grealish has been undeniably excellent for them I'd imagine he'll cause Liverpool some problems but it's hard to see past a Liverpool win really isn't it sorry two men just walked in is your house, they're removal men Johnny will you be removed from the house in one second
42:55Jonathan Liew:no they're decorators they've just gone into that room to get their stuff Because the way your Zoom is set up, and this may not work for listeners, it does look like a progressive number of people are just walking out of a tiny wardrobe behind you. Like a magic trick. A clown car. Like Mary Poppins wardrobe. How many people are in that wardrobe? That's actually the door of the room. Right, behind that. But it does look like, because of the wardrobe in front of it, because of the clothes rack, it does look silly. They are emerging from the wall If we keep going we'll see a lion and a witch Come out Mr Tumnus will finish the podcast, this is great Barry's professionalism There was Unbelievable And I probably do what many listeners do I was listening to his voice Which is soothing but I didn't hear any of the words
43:50Max Rushden:Well nothing Of much profundity I can assure you That me just Sitting on the fence on Liverpool I checked this out David Moyes has gone to Anfield 23 times and never won. And just, I wonder whether Jack Grealish could be the figure to turn that tight. I like the idea of him in a Merseyside derby, him embracing that atmosphere. But the thing that stood out for me from an Everton point of view, sadly, is that the only time Everton have won there since 1999 was when no one was there to see it during COVID. And there were no spectators in for that one. And so, yeah, I feel a bit for Everton and also the way Liverpool are shaping up.
44:44It doesn't feel like...
44:46Jonathan Liew:I think Everton will get something. I think the turnaround from Wednesday night to Saturday lunchtime, I know that they're both at Anfield, but physically, mentally, I think that's a big ask for Liverpool I think there's a good chance that Everton can hit them. And actually interestingly on that sort of tiredness thing that we sort of tend to ignore once the game kicks off, Arsenal play City and Arsenal, you know, they're already home from like a comfortable if tough game in Bilbao Man City have got to play Napoli on Thursday night and so how much, Johnny, does that give Arsenal a bit of an edge against City?
45:19Jonathan Liew:Oh totally because, you know, we've seen how we've also seen how physical these games have been in recent years you know we've seen we've seen sendings off we've seen crunchy tackles and uh incredibly intense pressing and i mean certainly if you think about some of the arteta guardiola duels from the last three three or four seasons they have been up there with some of the highest quality not maybe not the most exciting in terms of goal mouth action but in terms of in terms of two teams that have been set up to almost kind of exhaust the opposition all over the pitch that that is that is the standard that that they've they have set so i do think it matters you know obviously you know city are playing at home but thursday night i mean it's different with the europa league i think because europa i mean we all know the europa league is not real football but a champions league game on a thursday night against against napoli and then going to arsenal on sunday yeah i i certainly think given that the the kind of the margins at this level of the game, the physical margins.
46:21Jonathan Liew:I think that extra couple of days is going to it's a real help to Arteta. Manchester United, Chelsea, Barry, your thoughts?
46:28Max Rushden:I think Chelsea will win. Although weirdly, looking at this weekend's fixtures, I think you could make a case for the fact that there could be 10 draws out of 10 matches. I was trying to do my last man standing earlier this week. I've ended up going for Wolves against Leeds. But I could make a case for every single game this weekend being a draw, but watching Manchester United in their current state, and it is a state, I couldn't make a case for them beating anyone, really. The only case I'd make would be that they've got a full week's training. Although you wonder at this point, as Barry's facial expression says, does that help?
47:17Oh no, it's even worse. When he's reading, you know, Das Kapital to Patrick Dorgue or whatever, this isn't helping much. Brighton Spurs, Johnny, what's your take on the all-new Thomas Frank Tottenham?
47:32Jonathan Liew:It's been impressive. I don't think it's been quite as impressive as people make out. I think they've been a little bit lucky. I mean, if you look at their, sorry, XG, you know, in and out, I think they have been outperforming it slightly. And we saw during the, you know, you discussed this, you would have discussed this on yesterday's pod, but certainly during the second half of the Villarreal game, we saw a little bit of caution and negativity creep in, which I think is never far from the surface with Spurs. But, you know, I think right in a way, tough place to go, tough place to go. It's a place where Spurs have actually been humiliated quite a bit in recent times.
48:14Jonathan Liew:They went 2-0 up last season, lost 3-2. I think they lost really quite heavily, like 3-0 a couple of seasons ago. It's a place that they found really tough because Brighton is a tough system to break down. And they bring angles at you, which unless you are pretty secure and you know what you're doing defensively, they can catch you up very easily. So again, it's a big test of how well Frank has set up that defence and how well he's drilled them. Huge few days for Pullo, Marci. Brentford at home at the weekend and then Cambridge at home on Tuesday in the Carabao. We're taking 5 ,000 there. You will never have seen it.
48:53It'll be like Galatasaray away for your lot when you see the Cambridge Ultras. Is there a posher football match? Someone said, is there a posher football match ever? Fair point. I thought of you when Cambridge nearly did what Manchester United couldn't. in winning away at Rimsby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were robbed. But we're denied there, right? So look, if Kevin's not playing, then you might have a chance. Yeah, he looked good, didn't he? But Kevin looks really good. I twinkle-toed. He is doing things that I can't remember many wingers at Fulham doing. As sensationally, I think he may even eclipse Luis Boamorte in terms of the dribbling that I remember, albeit that's a very long time ago.
49:40And I don't think Luis Boamorte was capable of doing the number of stepovers that Kevin is capable of doing. So there's that. Brian Ruiz, are you a Brian Ruiz man? Oh, yes. Like man's got an ice cream scoop, but he's not got a dribble. He's got an ability to look elegant. And honestly, it felt like he was kept at the club against his will. I've never seen anybody look more pissed at having scored a 90th minute winner for us. Didn't you have Berbatov and Ruiz at the same time? Berbatov, Ruiz, Darren Bent and Adel Tarapt as a front four. That started for Fulham at some point, which on paper, you're like, oh, those are four good players.
50:27In separate teams, if you split them across four different teams. You can read a Jonathan Wilson piece going, Ruiz and Berbatov aren't going to press, are they? You know, that's your issue. Exactly that. Brentford, Fulham Brentford, as I will always remind you, is a big deal to both sets of fans involved here. There is hatred of each other. Brentford had the upper hand for a while. I would say that we have the upper hand right now. Harry Wilson is the buzzword from Fulham fans' point of view and singing about him after the miraculous turnaround that we did last season in injury time to beat Brentford and then Harry Wilson doing similar, a similar job away at Brentford last season.
51:10Yeah, it should be a spicy Saturday night. All right. West Ham Palace, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Wolves, Leeds as well. Cover them all on the weekend's pod, Monday's pod, on Sunday. Spencer says, Hi, Max and Barry. My daughter just got a call up for the women's team and is so nervous. The United States Soccer Federation. We listen to your pod, during all the painstaking drives to practice and games. It would make her world for a shout out on the pod, if it makes sense. Either way, thank you for providing a great soundtrack to us. And from all those relentless but beautiful car rides to practice and games, without you, we'd be listening to Taylor Swift in the car, which arguably would get you up for the game more than our Witterings.
51:48Keely Sholton, US Soccer Federation Talent ID Center, selected, it says. So look, Keely, you are now the best footballer that listens to this podcast. Harrogate goalkeeper may take issue with you. Our apologies. Our apologies. We're now all Keeley Shelton fans. Good luck. What age group is Keeley being called up to? I don't have that information.
52:15Max Rushden:Spencer is your textbook soccer dad. Yeah. He's driving Keeley to practice in his four by four. Up I-35 to Philadelphia for the next game. Good luck, Keely. Ryan says, hi, Max Barry and the gang. Big fan of the pod. Proud to say I started listening as soon as the legend of the soccer M glory years, Max Rushton, started presenting in 2017. Like everyone. I've hardly missed an episode since. Honestly, I enjoy it most when the panel go off on random tangents. Seb Hutchinson's deep dive into his entire goalkeeping career, a recent highlight. I'm astonished that that all stayed in. This is the first I've learned of that.
52:55I'm getting married on the 20th of September. And instead of asking Barry for his customary well wishes or ill will, I thought I'd ask for his advice. I'm a big Liverpool fan. When the fixtures came out a few months ago, I realized my vows will be happening at the exact same time as the Merseyside Derby. To make things worse or better, one of my best mates, Dan, also a listener and Liverpool fan, is the celebrant leading the ceremony. The problem, my fiancée Fiona isn't a football fan. I'm pretty sure she won't appreciate me or Dan sneaking a look at live score while I'm meant to be saying, I do.
53:23Barry, any words of wisdom on how to handle this massive dilemma? Keep up the great work, Ryan.
53:28Max Rushden:Well, it's not so much a dilemma. It's just a rookie error. A textbook case of someone arranging their wedding and not checking the sporting calendar first. I've attended a couple. One was a good friend of mine from Burr, got married on the same day that Ireland had a Rugby World Cup quarterfinal against Argentina. a lot of rugby fans in the congregation. So what ended up happening was things were shifted around a little bit. And at one point, the wedding just more or less stopped for two hours so everyone could watch the rugby match on a big screen. More recently, the championship playoff final this season, one of my mates, Jonathan, big Sunderland fan, season ticket holder, not Jonathan Wilson, a different Jonathan.
54:20Max Rushden:He couldn't go to that because his brother was getting married on playoff final day. And when his brother told him what day the wedding was on, he immediately went, that's the playoff final. Guarantee Sunderland will be in it. And they were. So it's a rookie error, Ryan. You just got to suck it up and you'll find out what the score was after you have exchanged vows. Sure. If Fiona turns up. yeah and also like the vows are quite short aren't they so if you vow if you've got an early the trouble with early the early saturday weddings is there's no atmosphere is it people aren't as up for the vows at 12 30 if they are three o 'clock especially like an evening vows you know vows under the lights they are the really the best they're the best ones aren't they but you know if you get your vows done it's not gonna take 45 minutes well if it's a catholic mass wedding oh gone forever yeah i was at a catholic uh wedding in galway and halfway through we realized that the canon was called peter rabbit and it just was just too much for me that this guy was called peter rabbit i don't i don't think he wasn't he's a priest max isn't canon one a protestant thing or a well i don't know i said at the bottom canon peter rabbit but maybe he's my apologies oh no actually canon canon canon is uh it's it's a step up from monsignor i think so i think it's priest monsignor can anyway yeah sorry the buffet was just carrots oh yes he came out of a hutch you're right johnny and uh ate a carrot and then delivered this anyway my love to uh you know that couple who were married and to ryan and fiona of course and uh just find out just watch the second half.
56:02That'll be doing the photos. What you do is you say, now it's wife and family and then do 45 minutes of photos and then you come back in for your photos. Anyway, that'll do for today, won't it? Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Barry. Thank you. Thank you, Archie. Thanks, Max. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you. Thank you to all the men in your wardrobe as well. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.
56:34Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.
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