Manchester City out of the Club World Cup and Euro 2025 kicks off - Football Weekly

24:24Nicky Bandini:Perhaps this is what football coming home really means. I'm sorry, Doug. Does anybody want to spring to my defence? None of you were here on Mondays. That's all my fault. Yeah, it is all your fault. I can jump in a little bit just because I think there's a couple of sides to this. I think the point that was made about the lightning strikes and the 30 minutes and all that stuff, like I've played in America where that's been a thing. I understand that. I think FIFA and Infantino seemed a bit surprised by that when the tournament started, which is a bit weird. Playing in MLS, you very rarely play during the day, especially in the summertime, you very, very rarely play during the day.

24:59You will play in the evenings because in the summer, sometimes it's just too hot. Get yourself over to Texas, get yourself over to Florida in the summer and try and play football in anything other than the evenings. I wish you well. You know, we're talking end of days type stuff. So the domestic leagues know how to do it, but then, oh, but we need the European audience. We need that, we need that. So let's just do it during the day. But then there's a greater likelihood of things like this happening. And that's the bit that's disappointing for me because I get everything about this. Obviously, for the way football goes, it's fine.

25:30Everything about this just feels like a money grab. You know what I mean? It's money and it's attention. But in reality, it's not the best way to deliver the product itself. Because if you want to deliver a better product, you would do it when it's cooler during the day or at nighttime rather. That's the whole point. You would sort of maybe put it in places where, for example, again, this is me. Maybe I'm being toxic. I don't know. But I thought MLS had probably 30 plus teams with dedicated football stadia of which most of the pitches have normal grass. But instead we're playing in some of these bigger stadiums which are designed for NFL teams and have had grass laid over the top of it.

26:02And sometimes you watch the ball doesn't even really bounce. That's pretty weird. You know, I'll be honest, that's pretty weird. Oh, the average attendance only been - Don't let it bounce. They found the cure to don't let it bounce. No, don't let it bounce. It's just going to drop from the sky and just roll, of course. Sorry, I'm sort of rambling a bit here. But my issue is that they found a way to functionally make football work in the USA outside of these tournaments. But now the tournament's here. They're trying to do it a different way. And as a consequence, we get to see some of the flaws which they've sort of pushed to the side by having their own dedicated league.

26:30And I think that kind of sums it up. Because I think sometimes when we have a conversation about can we grow football in North America, let's say in the USA. They say, yeah, we can do it. But there's so many different sides to it and so many different ways that it's done. And I don't know if this is necessarily the best way for it to be done. because if all these teams, for example, that travel from Europe to play in America played in the MLS stadiums, they'd probably have a better experience because it would feel more true, feel more fair.

26:54Nicky Bandini:And the crowd, the stadiums would look fuller, right? Yeah, exactly. Very quickly, Nadim. Mark sent a message going, with all this weather talk, can we hear Nadim talking about playing for Real Salt Lake against Sporting Kansas on the 8th of November 2020? I watched the highlights. It's very snowy. You keep the line quite well, Nadim. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah. But you did get, you got hooked in that game, I didn't know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You see, this is the difference between having like data and having an understanding to turn that into information. That was the last game of my career.

27:23Nicky Bandini:Got it. And the reason I came off was because they wanted to give me, at the time, like due to the pandemic and so on, the stadium wasn't full, but they wanted to give me the chance to have a standing ovation in my last ever professional game. So there's the context. And there you go. It makes more sense. In my memory of my game, my last ever game, I love the fact that it snowed so heavily. We hadn't qualified for the playoffs. This is my last game. I had family in the stands. I had friends in the stands. And it's the first time in my career I played with an orange football. And that ball is upstairs in my house now.

27:50Is it? Yeah, that's my memory from that. So there's the context, you see.

27:54Max Rushden:You see, they'll just go on the internet, my friend. That's the people. Did you get the standing ovation? From anyone that was still left, yeah. Listen, it wasn't a lot of people, but it was a nice moment. I remember when, because I knew it was going to be coming off before the game. And when it was like, I'll be honest, when it was that time and the board was going up, I took a breath. I was on the pitch. people coming over to me like shaking my hand all this stuff and it felt it actually felt quite nice you know football it can be such a hostile sport this was my last game it was my last moment felt nice to clap whoever was there go off and then just sit down on the bench and just watch the game in the most carefree manner knowing that I cannot affect this anymore so yeah that was a nice moment Well look

28:30Nicky Bandini:before your last pod we will let you know Oh excuse me is it this one or which one is it we'll get Lars or someone off the bench for the last two minutes and you can have a round outstanding ovation and that'll do for part one Susie Rackle join us in just a second for part two.

28:50Nicky Bandini:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. In the break, Barry has called for mandatory water breaks because of the heat in London at the moment and announced that he went to M &S in Brixton just to stand in it for 20 minutes yesterday. Are you hydrated enough to continue, Barry?

29:06Max Rushden:I am. I've got my pint of water. I've got some sort of protein drink out of the fridge and of coffee so i'm okay okay good stuff let's bring in suzy rack who's out in switzerland for the euros

29:16Nicky Bandini:hey suzy hey hey how are you doing yeah good concerns about the heat there as well there were amber weather warnings in switzerland that could hit 35 degrees apparently later yeah it's horrific

29:26Suzy Wrack:um and air conditioning isn't really a thing here either so this really really ineffective fan has become my new best friend is just following me around this tiny studio apartment um wherever i move basically.

29:40Nicky Bandini:Right. I was interested in reading about women's football in Switzerland. Donnie Lou wrote a piece saying that women were not allowed to play organised football, 11-a-side football until the late 60s. Women's leagues not integrated into the Swiss FA until 93, which was three years after the northeastern canton of Appenzell. Inner Hoden became the last Swiss province to give women the vote. Wow, it's 93.

30:03Suzy Wrack:Wasn't it similar in England? It was 1970 that the ban on women's football was lifted, 50-year ban.

30:12Nicky Bandini:And I think women could vote earlier than the 90s, I think, very unsure. But, you know, the point he makes, Jodie, in this piece is that before a ball was being kicked, ticket sales will surpass that of Euro 2022 in Switzerland, which is great.

30:27Suzy Wrack:Yeah, it's brilliant. I think they're past 600 ,000 for the tournament so far, which when a lot of people were quite critical of it being hosted in Switzerland because of the smaller stadium sizes and stuff is impressive that said it sort of shows how much further they could have potentially gone if they'd gone for you know a country like Germany or something with much bigger higher profile stadiums yeah I mean it is impressive and it shows how rapid the rise is I guess and what's also very impressive is that I think English fans outside of Swiss and German fans are the biggest traveling contingent out as well so it shows it's a reflection of the success of the game and of the WSL that obviously 2022 win and how much that sort of brought people on the journey.

31:08Nicky Bandini:Taking over town squares, throwing plastic chairs around, that's what we want to see. Flares up the arse. Yeah, that's what we want. Although, you know, I'd wait till it's not 35 degrees. So, look, how do you see England? We talked to Seb about it on Monday, who's covering it for ITV, but how do you see England? I saw someone saying, look, the exciting thing about England is they could win it, they could go out in the group. You just don't know.

31:30Suzy Wrack:That's kind of what is the great thing about the tournament as a whole in that there's about five teams that have a realistic shot of winning it. I mean, once you sort of exclude Spain, England's chances, I'm nervous about the group stage because it took them time to sort of get into a rhythm in 2020. The first game was against Austria. It was a 1-0 win. It wasn't overly convincing performance-wise. At the World Cup, they played Haiti first game. So, you know, a much easier job for them they start straight off with France then they've got the Netherlands then they've got Wales like it's a much tougher start they've got to be on it from the beginning and I'm like a little bit wary of of that situation then also Tom was pointing out the other day that no team from uh that hasn't been from group A or B has won the tournament which is a slightly ridiculous fact but there is a point there in that if you're in group D you've got shorter breaks between all the rounds.

32:28Suzy Wrack:So there's less recovery time and stuff. And obviously England were in Group A as the host last time round. So they had a bit more time to breathe around fixtures. So I am a little bit worried about even if they get through the group stage, then them going into the quarters and the semis on a fairly short turnaround, having played three very exhausting games in ridiculous heat.

32:49Nicky Bandini:Yeah, I mean, that was an extraordinary stat. It was from our colleague Tom Gary saying in the last 15 major tournaments, I think, men's and women's the team that wins the first semi-final i that's gone through from the top of the draw wins the tournament like so sort of because they have a day more time just to put their feet up it's a mad stat barry you had your hand up i'm polite yeah i wanted to ask susie who

33:13Max Rushden:knows far about more about the england camp than i do is it a harmonious camp because there seem to be mutterings that all is not well there and there's a bit you know in turn they've gone a bit Dutch there's lots of infighting and I have no idea but that's the vibe I'm getting that it might not be the most harmonious camp of all time I don't think it's as harmonious as 2022

33:38Suzy Wrack:when literally everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet players agents staff FA fans the media like I don't think anything would be able to compare to that in a way it is a pretty harmonious camp because the people who don't want to be there aren't there so in a sense you know if you if you've made it into the squad you're happy you're there and there's a level of harmony in that in the yeah now they're finally down to that 23 I think it is pretty tight um and it is a nice it's a nice group as well relatively there's not there's not too many areas where I think you'd expect to be fractious Serena's like handling of things has been questioned a little bit particularly around like Mary Earps and Frank Kirby in particular, who both retired.

34:20Suzy Wrack:And when you look at, say, like the US women's national team who had like Megan Rapinoe and Becky Sauerber and Alex Morgan, like playing well into their late, mid to late 30s, to see players sort of retiring in sort of early to mid 30s is a little bit, a little bit odd maybe in that context. So her handling things, I think her sort of veneer of like perfection has slipped slightly. But then again, you know, she's won back-to-back European titles and clearly is a very good tournament manager so like I'm loathe to like say oh it's all going to fall apart in in a major tournament when she's the expert at them.

34:55Max Rushden:So you're saying there's a chance?

34:58Nicky Bandini:Of course. Nadim you're covering this as well um how do you seeing those chances? To be honest I was going to ask Susie about this but I feel like a lot is pinned on this game against France to start with because I think if they do start with a win then And with all due respect to the Welsh, and I apologise to Ellis and so on, I'd fancy England to be able to win that last group game. And six points is realistically going to be able to see you through. So yeah, that whole thing about how can they start, can they start quicker, is a different sort of test. And looking back at the last Euros, there've been so many documentaries looking back at it.

35:29And it's a lot of fun, to be honest. I quite enjoy that. It gives me a lot of goosebumps and so on. But this is different now because it's not on home soil anymore. You know, that advantage that they had, it's very easy to forget about sometimes. but for the draw that they're the side of the draw that they're on and the group that they're in I think it's good to sort of sharpen the mind as such and I fancy them to get results against France and Netherlands to be fair and then when it comes down to knockouts I guess you've got to see how the other groups are going to fall because it's not necessarily I don't think it will necessarily be as straightforward as say some people believe in terms of who's going to finish top and second in some of the other groups so then your path then you know because we're hearing people I don't know if you've you've probably seen a season where people say oh maybe if England finish second in their group then they'll avoid Spain before this that and the other I don't know man finishing second in a group doesn't give me good vibes there I'll be honest and Susie as well you said the five teams that

36:16Suzy Wrack:could win it which five do you think that is good questions I think England Spain France the Netherlands you think Netherlands that's a big call yeah I think and Germany I think they've got all got a shout maybe the Netherlands and Sweden are like the ones who are battling out in my mind for the fifth of the big five that could win it and then in terms of like where they finish in a group I'm totally with you in that like you go to win that group because if you come out of that group I mean you'll be exhausted and the turnaround is then short to the quarters but at the same time if you've come out of a group on top again with France and the Netherlands in your group and then rivals Wales who yes they're not a big challenge but they will be up for that game big time the momentum and confidence you're going to have going into that next round is going to be better than anyone else in the tournament so like I think you can't underestimate that psychological factor of coming out of that group top um so sort of yeah where they finish and who they play next is kind of irrelevant in that sense they won't want to they won't want to be playing machinations do we think this is like because you've named five which already is quite a big group really when we're talking about possible tournament winners but like do we think this is the tournament where we could see like a proper like genuine dark horse winner like I feel like I maybe I'm getting a bit too caught up in I don't think turkey are in it definitely not just saying this because i've seen even some of the guardian predictors putting

37:39Max Rushden:italy among their dark horses this time around to win the whole thing but no i don't think i'm in the whole thing honestly i think emma hayes tipped italy didn't she she knows her on you bow to emma hayes's knowledge it's funny because baz raised it about like the atmosphere in the england squad before and i do think with italy the big thing is just the vibe feels so much better than it did the last couple of tournaments they've gone into like i do think with sonchin in charge the whole atmosphere is different stupid stuff like really stupid stuff like after he beat Denmark earlier this year and him saying oh well because we won that game I have to deliver on this promise to get like a new speaker for the dressing room so everyone can have their music I know that's stupid it really is but I'm a big believer in this with like tournament teams that like at tournaments that people have to want to be there like I think it's been one of the problems for Italy's men's team frankly even even at the last Euros was the vibe was just horrendous so like the uh that that stuff does matter I don't really think I believe this Italy squad is good enough to win it but then at the same time like no one thought Arsenal were going to win the Champions League at the start of this season did they right like so there's there's there's maybe a moment where it could be you look at some of the teams that go in as a traditional favourites it feels like Spain and Germany so everyone's favourites but hey you know Bob Mati might not be in good shape to start this tournament and I don't know it feels like maybe there's a chance this is a real surprise winner here there's definitely a chance of it I think outside that

38:52Suzy Wrack:top five it's unlikely although like you say Italy I don't think would win it but they look so much better um and so much more it's like a 2.0 of the one that of the team that did fairly well at the 2019 world cup and the group that they're in is fairly kind to them obviously spain will top it but then it's sort of i would say between belgium and italy for that second place to get out i think it's realistic that they could which is the first game they kind of have to win that one um so that's that's quite fun i mean who knows the world cup uh in uh australia germany collapsed out of the group stage and you know Tom had predicted that they were the winners so you know anything can happen I just I love throwing that in there because he hates it for every single one of these teams there's two versions of that team that could show up in the same way that there were very much two versions of Arsenal that could show up in that Champions League final absolutely blisteringly brilliant Arsenal or the like pretty chaotic very prone to collapse Arsenal and I do think that pretty much almost every single team in this tournament has has those two elements in them, which means that there's not an outright favourite.

39:59Suzy Wrack:So, you know, maybe bar Spain. But I mean, I'm really putting that down to Montse Tome, not necessarily being the best manager, rather than the players being absolutely phenomenal. But yes, I do think it is, there is a chance that there is a new name on it, for sure. It would be nice if it wasn't Germany, purely because of their sort of history in the tournament, and how many times they've won it. That obviously wouldn't be a new name, they've won it like eight times or something. But yeah, it'd be good to see one of the other teams get a title. Yeah, I'm not so convinced we'll be seeing that.

40:31But say when I look at a tournament, you're looking at basically Spain, Germany, then that next sort of tee, you're looking at England and France and so on. And the difference between them all, it's not massive, but Nikki's alluded to it. Susie's alluded to it. We allude to it basically every time we're on this show. I wish you could quantify vibes. I wish you really could, because that can be such an elevator or sometimes it could just take you down. like for all the years for example with say these tournaments like the France team everyone always acknowledges their talent but then they say the vibes are off and they end up winning nothing but with the talent that they have of course they should win it well why wouldn't they win it why wouldn't they be in the final said yeah but you see there's this drama there's this this that Max you need to get to the bottom of this my friend what is the value of vibes when it comes down to success

41:14Nicky Bandini:I was going to say vibes are every if you get the vibe right the show is great 100 % see yeah you get it if the vibe is good if the vibe is good you don't swear any of the small stuff the podcast is great that's the truth of it the other I just pick up I did like you describing the whole Welsh nation name as Ellis and so on that's big for Ellis isn't it you know is it too patronising just say happy to be there Susie or do you think their eyes will be on that England game because you know it is a great achievement to make their first major tournament yeah

41:49Suzy Wrack:and Jess Fishlock said she can sleep at night now because it was the thing that was missing was getting Wales to a major tournament. Yeah, I mean, they're very much there for the participation award. I think the likelihood of them doing much against any of those three teams is pretty slim. That said, that psychological element of elevating your game against the English, I think, is there. That said, the gap is just so huge. I mean, like the gap in international football in the women's game is massive. Like you just don't get the scale of the gap that you do in the men's game to the same extent.

42:19Suzy Wrack:like the game against Jamaica the other day, there were four players who are university players in that Jamaica side, including the goalkeeper who's 20 and plays for a university team. Like that's the goal. Had to finish an essay at halftime. That is a killer, isn't it? And there's only 35 places between them in the FIFA rankings. So it's not like they're at the very bottom and England are at the very top. It's only once you get into that sort of like top 20 that you actually get sort of professional competitive level like players. So yeah, Wales have a task to take anything from it. But with Jess Fishlock, I would never rule anything out because she's just a magician.

42:55Nicky Bandini:Women's Football Weekly is going to be out three times a week. We're going to put some of your episodes on our feed. We'll obviously get you and everyone else on this pod as well. But for listeners that just don't follow the women's game week in, week out, but will come in for this tournament, are there players that they don't know about that they should be fixed on?

43:14Suzy Wrack:Oh God, so many. I mean, from an England point of view, I'm just so excited to see Lauren James back, who is probably a name that people know, but she's been injured. She's been out for three months with a hamstring injury. And I saw her in training the other day and she was still like that, like one of her probably her first, second training sessions, like where she was doing it in full. And she just looked absolutely incredible. And her skill level was insane. Obviously, all the Spanish players. But then if you, you know, you go a little bit deeper, you've got Berenstain for the Netherlands.

43:42Suzy Wrack:there's some really like exciting young players about pretty much every single team has someone decent in now which is a little bit of a stretch but um like a change from the previous tournament there are like top level players at every single team which is a positive sign for development i think from my perspective as well what i would say is you know you've mentioned the gap between say the very best nations and some of the other ones so say like wales being here but then spain also being here as world champions, the gap between those two teams will be very big. And say Wales, for example, could have a Jess Fishlock who could play for a higher-ranked nation as such.

44:21But if you want to get a feel for who's going to be in and around the knockouts, get a chance, have a look at those teams which you mentioned before, the Spains, the Germans, the Englands, and so on. And you'll see the quality that's there. Because, for example, it's really obvious to mention Spain. But like in Aitana Bon Mati, that's a two-time Ballon d 'Or winner playing alongside Alexi Poteas, who's also a two-time Ballon d 'Or winner. around players who are all capable of being Ballon d 'Or winners. So you'll see the way that they play and gain an appreciation for how good they are and why they are where they are in the FIFA rankings and why they are currently world champions.

44:52And then, as I say, well, who's going to beat them? Well, go and watch Germany. If you obviously want to watch England, watch England from that standpoint. Get a chance to watch France. And yes, not every team is going to be as good as that. But if you want to see the pinnacle of European football and to a certain extent world football, as we've seen with Spain, really watch it and see the quality that's there because it's not, even for as good as those names are, look at the way that Spain play as a collective. You know, for England, in my opinion, like they play really well as a collective, but you get the feelings that like, if Lauren James plays well, they'll probably get into later rounds.

45:22For Spain, it could be anybody. And that's the real quality and depth that they have, especially with people, for example, Claudia Pina, for example. You know, one minute you've got Paracuelo starting Barcelona striker. Well, she's coming off, well, here comes Claudia Pina, who scored two goals against England just a couple of months ago. So the quality is there, the depth is there. You watch it and watch it from a football standpoint, you know exactly why some of these are at the absolute pinnacle of world football because they are class.

45:45Suzy Wrack:I'm actually really excited to see some of the, like if anything more excited to see some of the more senior players who this is sort of their last hurrah quite probably, definitely in the Euros, probably World Cup as well. Jess Fishlock being one, but also like Cristiana Giurelli, Viv Mirdema, Mariona Caldente, probably not her last, but she's in a race for the Ballon d 'Or probably. with Bob Matty and Alexia, Penila Harder, Ada Hagerberg, like some of these players who haven't tasted major success at European or global level with their national teams, but have like scooped it up across the board domestically and seeing how they cope because a lot of them have got fairly favourable groups and draws and slightly stronger squads around them to see whether any of them are able to do anything particularly special, I think is going to be really exciting.

46:38Nicky Bandini:Cool. Susie thanks for coming on chat soon

46:40Suzy Wrack:thanks for having me I'm going to go and practice my leaving cert for some reason I just got to urge

46:45Nicky Bandini:yeah we'll get to that in part three see you later

46:54Nicky Bandini:welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly Henning says what happened in Italy in the playoff between Salerno Natana and Sampdoria did I pronounce that correctly Nicky because I tried about 15 times before that moment I'll just throw it to you and you can crack on Salernitana the team who played Salernitana in the Serie B relegation playoff play out I guess what happened oh my goodness Max so much happened so Salernitana initially feared to be relegated based on the league's standing then Brescia were handed an eight point deduction for financial irregularities so they got relegated and Salernitana were bumped up into the relegation playoff against Salernitana this caused already before any ball had been kicked a certain amount of, I suppose, disagreement about the approach taken.

47:42I think there were plenty of people, certainly fans of Sardinitana, who felt that they should have just been allowed to stay up at that point. And Sampdoria, who had been relegated on the pitch, should have gone down and they shouldn't have been a playoff. But the way they did it, they applied the eight-point penalty, which meant Sampdoria got bumped into the relegation playoff. The way that relegation playoff works is it's two legs. If it finishes in a draw, then Sardinitana stay up because they finished higher in the league. The first leg was played in Genova, home of Sampdoria. They won that leg 2-0.

48:08On the way back from that leg, 21 members of Salernitana's travelling party were reported to have come down with some form of food poisoning on the way back from that leg, which meant that the second leg, which would have been scheduled, I think it was for the Friday, was pushed back two days because there were so many people sick. When the second leg finally was played, Sampdoria were winning that game. I think it was 1-0 when it first stopped, but 2-0 by the time it was eventually called off the game was stopped three times due to disturbances from the crowd the certainly tanner fans a group of them were very well very upset and were throwing things on the pitch and fireworks and all sorts and so eventually the game got stopped and uh yes has been awarded as a win samdoria so samdoria stay up but my goodness there was a lot of drama on

48:52Nicky Bandini:the way to getting there um keith says uh gonna be an ordeal uh thanks to uh joe kim who uh alerted me to this a tweet from keith gonna be an ordeal where someone says morning steve at blackpool this season, head coach Steve Bruce, assistant head coach Steve Agnew, first team coaches Stephen Clements, Stephen Dobby, goalkeeping coach Steve Banks. It's absolutely perfect to have your entire coaching staff all be called Steve. Finally, Barry, a lot of people have been in touch about a video that surfaced on the internet from a very young Barry Glendening complaining about, as Susie alluded to at in a part two uh the leaving cert which is what a levels in irish terms uh back in the late 90s um did you like seeing uh how old were you there 20 18 24 i think 24 okay and 24 years old and about

49:50Max Rushden:yeah four stone lighter i'd say yeah so just to be clear max uh this part of the show which you have clearly been looking forward to immensely is you making fun of someone else or belittling someone else's attempts to be funny on television. Think about that for a second.

50:11Nicky Bandini:Do you know what? I actually I wanted it to be much shitter than it was. I must admit.

50:19Max Rushden:Well the context is it was kind of this youth equivalent of the one show called That Last TV and I was just asked to do a segment on it called J 'Accuse and so you had to go on and complain about something that you didn't like so my complaint was about the rigidity of the Leaving Cert series of examinations school leavers have to do where you're very much restricted in my problem I did a very mediocre leaving sir mainly because I was forced to study a selection of subjects I had little or no interest in and I think I would have done a lot better if I'd been allowed study subjects I was interested in and did your video did your you know did that change no education in Ireland I remember that particular episode of the show was reviewed by the Irish Times TV critic and he referred to me as and i quote some idiot well we have that in common from reviews of tv shows i would say that i

51:31Nicky Bandini:i thought actually it was quite fun i think you're you if you run like a pigeon what is the only other observation i had okay right that's fine well i don't run anymore oh i don't do you

51:44Max Rushden:not we've got a half marathon to do mary yes that's true but that that's uh i wouldn't say i'm like a

51:52Nicky Bandini:pigeon more like a fat old man well i'll do i run like a fat old man because that's what i am when i was 24 i was a pigeon right i see well you can always get back to being a pigeon and um maybe you will did you that's the goal yeah exactly for the half marathon i'll run it with you if we're in the same country anyway that'll do for today thanks everybody thank you Nadam. Thank you very much. Thanks Nikki. Thanks Max. Cheers Baz. Thank you. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard. We'll be back tomorrow.

52:31This is The Guardian.