.jpg&w=1920&q=75)
In short
The Guardian Football Weekly Extra covers: Manchester United’s crisis after losing 2-3 to Brighton in the Carabao Cup, including the claim they became the first side in 50 years to come back from 2-0 down at Old Trafford; Sunderland’s 1-0 Europa League win over AZ Alkmaar, their first European goal since 1973, with Enzo Le Fée scoring a penalty he won himself; and multiple cup/league results plus a Premier League weekend preview (Newcastle thrashed 1-3? actually Leeds 4-1 Newcastle; Liverpool 3-1 Spurs; Ipswich 2-4 Arsenal; Villa 3-1 Coventry; Everton 1-0 Wolves).
Guests/panel
Barry Glendening, Sam Dalling, Max Rushton, Dan Bardell, and Max (Dowman) is referenced as a panel voice.
Key claims
VAR audio release shows an offside/“interfering with play” miss involving Enzo Fernández; Carrick is under pressure; Arsenal’s Max Dowman (16) is handled carefully; Sunderland’s Le Fée was “masterclass.”
Notable examples
Shea Lacey’s debut goal, Mason Mount’s second, Brighton’s press, and Le Fée’s post-hit winner and late saves.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOManchester United's Carabao Cup Exit
1:09 to 2:06
Discussion on Manchester United's recent performance against Brighton in the Carabao Cup.
“On the panel today, Barry Glendening, welcome.”
Assessing Michael Carrick's Management
2:06 to 3:21
Analysis of Michael Carrick's performance and the pressure he faces as Manchester United's manager.
“It was a great moment for Shea Lacey to score a really good goal from the edge of the area on his full debut.”
Manchester United's Long-Term Issues
3:21 to 4:33
Exploration of Manchester United's past decisions and their impact on current performance.
“I don't think this mess is entirely of his own making, or it definitely isn't, because Manchester United aren't shopping in the expensive supermarket anymore.”
Analyzing Defensive Mistakes
4:33 to 5:36
Discussion on Manchester United's defensive weaknesses during the Brighton match.
“So now Carrick's got the job permanently.”
VAR Controversy and Its Implications
5:36 to 6:25
Debate on the VAR audio release and the mistakes made in officiating.
“And they lurch from one bad result to another.”
Impact of VAR on Match Outcomes
6:25 to 7:45
Discussion on the broader implications of VAR errors in crucial matches.
“I mean, he's right, isn't he, for that second goal, Sam?”
Liverpool's Performance Analysis
7:45 to 14:01
Analysis of Liverpool's recent performance against Spurs and standout players.
“Because a really serious, ruthless elite Premier League club doesn't hold on to that sentiment like, okay, that guy got us there, and this is our chance to make a fresh start in the summer.”
Liverpool vs Spurs: Key Performers and Strategies
14:01 to 20:56
Analyzing Liverpool's strong performance against Spurs and individual player highlights.
“He's just far and away their best player right now and was under Arna Schlott as well and he's there to achieve anywhere near the goals that they want to achieve this season.”
Developing Young Talents and Team Dynamics
20:56 to 28:01
Discussing the careful nurturing of young football talents like Max Downman and the contrasting situations of other clubs.
“players that a lot of people won't have heard of as well.”
Sunderland's Europa League Success
28:01 to 29:23
Discussing Sunderland's strong performance in their Europa League campaign.
“But this game was an Enzo Le Fay masterclass and he's fast becoming one of my favourite players of all time, I have to say.”
Show all 17 chapters
Newcastle's Troubling Loss to Leeds
29:24 to 30:28
Analyzing Newcastle's recent defeat and their struggles this season.
“Hello and welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.”
Mitigating Factors for Newcastle's Performance
30:29 to 33:18
Discussing the reasons behind Newcastle's poor show and potential future challenges.
“They just look like a team who knows their identity, knows exactly who they want to be.”
Chelsea's Ownership Change Discussion
33:19 to 35:15
Debating the implications of Chelsea's recent ownership changes.
“but I'm certainly not going to write off those chances.”
Concerns for Tottenham and Villa
35:16 to 38:28
Examining Tottenham's and Villa's current struggles and future outlook.
“I'm sorry that Kieran Maguire wasn't here on this panel.”
Raheem Sterling's Legal Troubles
38:29 to 42:01
Discussing Raheem Sterling's recent legal issues and its impact on his career.
“You've already alluded, Max, to the fact that we have this interminable international break coming up.”
Refereeing Insights and Correspondence
42:01 to 43:29
Listeners share their thoughts on refereeing and the skills needed for VAR.
“several concerned citizens called three different police forces to alert them to this.”
Evolving the Referee Profession
43:30 to 45:01
Discussion on the need for specialized skills in refereeing and data science.
“The second question, what sort of people should actually be operating this increasingly complicated system?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is The Guardian.
0:30Then no Carabao cut for Roberto de Zerbi either. Lots of changes at Anfield by both teams where one side could finish and the other couldn't. Dominic Subozlai, take a bow, son. Max Dowman's good, still young, but he'll be 25 by the end of the upcoming international break, so he could get the call. After the Carabao to the continent, a Sunderland score a goal in Europe for the first time since the year of Barry's birth. And then the Premier League, Leeds 4, Newcastle 1 was on Monday, but still worth talking about. Then we'll look ahead to the weekend. There's been lots of correspondence about referees as the VAR audio for the Manchester derby drops like it's a hit single.
1:01All that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.
1:09On the panel today, Barry Glendening, welcome. Hi, Max. Hello, Sam Dalling. Hello, Max Rushton. And good morning to Dan Bardell. Hello, Max. Baz Grogan says, when will Kieran McKenna replace Michael Carrick? The name's Dave, Dave, Dave, says are Manchester United the new Everton? Manchester United 2, Brighton 3 then in the Carabao Cup. And that stat, Baz, is astonishing. The first side for 50 years to come from 2-0 down to win at Old Trafford since Spurs did it. So I'll take the win. But since they've been so bad for so long, it feels like they keep doing that.
1:43Max Rushden:Yeah, I was a bit surprised by that stat as well. I read somewhere that Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager of St Mirren when that last happened. But I suppose Brighton gave themselves every chance of coming from 2-0 down by going 2-0 down so early. So they had lots of time to overcome that milestone slash millstone. But Manchester United started very well. It was a great moment for Shea Lacey to score a really good goal from the edge of the area on his full debut. And then Mason Mount, who was making a rare-ish appearance, scored their second. And you kind of thought, well, that must be game over, really.
2:26Max Rushden:but I think Fabian Herzler is kind of everything, well not everything, but he's just a better coach than Michael Carrick and he's a better problem solver than Michael Carrick and solving problems mid-game seems to be something Carrick isn't particularly good at at all. And Brighton are a better team than Manchester United with better players and more squad depth I would argue because both teams put out second-string-ish sides. And Brighton's press was really well-organised. Manchester United just could not deal with it at all. There were times they were trying to play the ball out from the back and they just looked like children against men.
3:12Max Rushden:I think Brighton were well worth the win at the end. They were just better than Manchester United for 80 minutes of the game. Now, Michael Carrick says he doesn't feel the pressure he's under, but he is under pressure. I don't think this mess is entirely of his own making, or it definitely isn't, because Manchester United aren't shopping in the expensive supermarket anymore. They're in Aldi. Their supposed rivals are shopping in waitrose, and they don't have the squad depth to compete. I don't think they can have any complaints at all about going out. I was actually looking in terms of coaching.
3:52Who in the Premier League is Carrick more elite than? And it's a short-ish list of maybes.
4:00Max Rushden:You know, Gary O 'Neill, Marco Rosé, De Zerbi, Lampard, Arbeloa. And none of them are of any great shakes. I like Marco Rosé as a sort of, you know, a slightly sort of, you know, boozy way of saying Marco Rosé. but you know I'll take it I don't know I mean it's it is so tricky isn't it with Carrick Dan because I guess he's quite early in his journey and the question is if you're early in your journey is Manchester United too big for you but then he did so well last year they couldn't not give him the job and it is only you know like they were unlucky against Man City because that goal shouldn't have been a goal and it is a second string team here I mean it's an improvement getting knocked out by Brighton rather than Grimsby so I guess he's got that that he can hang his hat on true good point I think the problem is Manchester United now are wounded by a decade of bad decisions.
4:54So now Carrick's got the job permanently. Everyone is now going to look back and look at what they did with Solskjaer and say, oh my God, they're doing the same thing again and it's not working. But Solskjaer did work to an extent. In fact, I think if you look at where Manchester United finished in one of his seasons, it's probably the highest they've finished since Ferguson left. On with you, Max, that I think after the job Carrick did, he finished third and got them into the Champions League. They absolutely had to give him the job. Probably it wouldn't have been right to do anything else. But something does seem to switch when you go from being that interim stroke caretaker manager to being the permanent manager.
5:26And just when you think they might be becoming a little bit stable, you feel like they might have made some good footballing decisions. What unravels on the pitch shows you the complete opposite of that. And they lurch from one bad result to another. And now you worry for them at the weekend as well. You can't be doing what they did last night. But good teams, when they let in a really, really bad goal and it goes back to 2-2, they settle, they regain a little bit of composure, they don't do what Manchester United did and concede another one straight away where you look at the players on the pitch and their supposed positions of where they should be and where they actually are.
6:00And it's absolutely all over the shop. So he says he doesn't feel the pressure. I mean, I've never heard a manager come out and say in an interview, yeah, I'm really, really feeling the pressure here. I'm worried for my job. It just doesn't happen, does it? But suddenly, in a matter of a couple of weeks, it does feel like Michael Carrick is under pressure. But then everyone above him is under pressure because they can't get yet another decision wrong. Yet right now, it looks like they may have got another decision wrong. Maybe. I mean, he's right, isn't he, for that second goal, Sam? Is it? Heaven and Jorow.
6:31I know they're not the first choice centre-backs, but they're so far. Like Pascal Gross is just, I understand you can lose the ball when you're playing out. But I mean, Dallow sort of makes a mistake before that, doesn't he? Which doesn't help from an experienced player. But yeah, you do look at those centre-halves who were sort of physically bullied a little bit by Brighton. Even the first goal when the ball comes across from the Brighton left-back. And is it heavens looking around to say as if, where are you, Maserati? But they just got the positioning wrong. But I think, you know, Dallow at the weekend, was it 250 games?
6:58He got his shirt to say he's played that much for Manchester United. And that's probably just a sign of where they're at. Like, he's an OK player. And I wonder at what point do we have to let go? and I know it's fun for us in the media and everyone likes to keep saying how bad Manchester United are, but they haven't won a title in 13 years. At some point, this is just Manchester United. This is the way they are, but it puts a lot of pressure on the Fulham game on Sunday, doesn't it? Because now, not only do we have an international break, but it's a two-week international break and everyone talks about the morale of going into it with a defeat.
7:32If you go into it with three defeats in a row, it's just strange. I know probably hindsight obviously is a wonderful thing, but all this, they had to give Carrick the job. And you're probably right. They probably did, but only because that's a sign of where they are, right? Because a really serious, ruthless elite Premier League club doesn't hold on to that sentiment like, okay, that guy got us there, and this is our chance to make a fresh start in the summer. But in reality, which elite managers are they attracting? Because of what Barry said at the beginning, they're not shopping in that top tier.
8:05their midfielders they bought a Chelsea reserve midfielder Tielemans really like him but they basically picked him up on the cheap via a release clause Belieber hasn't played yet so they're not attracting that top tier and so they've gone for a company man but I mean to be honest based on what Barry said his analysis at the beginning they did blooming well to be tuning up in the first place I think we should give them
8:24Max Rushden:some credit I totally understand why they did give him the job but I don't think they had to give it to him and at the time an awful lot of people were expressing reservations about him getting the job on a full-time basis. Let's not forget that. Because he took over an absolute shambles under Amorim. He only had to deal with one game a week. He did well. He did what was asked of him. But what he's doing now, or being asked to do now, is a completely different gig. So I get why they gave him the job. I had no objections to them giving him the job. But they didn't have to do it. And it was stressed at the time.
9:07Max Rushden:He was only coming in to see them through to the end of the season. Five wins out of six for Brighton at Old Trafford. And the third goal, slightly annoying, it took a little deflection on the cross because the move was absolutely beautiful for that goal. While we're on Manchester United, the VAR audio has dropped, as I said in the intro. It seems such an odd verb to use for VAR audio, isn't it? Honestly. Dan, yeah, your thoughts on the VAR audio coming out? Yeah, you talk about it dropping. absolute banger. Everyone's been waiting for it, haven't they? We're quite fortunate that it came out so quickly after the game.
9:42I think the timing worked out pretty well. Sometimes you have to wait a few weeks, so we got quite lucky with that. It's absolutely incredible. You sat there waiting for someone to notice Enzo Fernandes. At no point does anyone even consider the possibility that Enzo Fernandes might be interfering with playing, might be offside. I'm no expert on the rules, but I knew straight away that he'd gone for the ball. So therefore, he was offside. It's not even anything that requires line drawing. You can absolutely see straight away that Enzo Fernandes is offside but they've completely missed it and then all the rigmarole that comes with it afterwards, referees going on TV and trying to defend their own.
10:20It's just indefensible. And the worst thing is that two of the people in the VAR booth are actually assistant referees, are exact alignsmen. And so it's so bad that they managed to bumble through and get that wrong. Although, Sam, I almost find it quite impressive when I hear them talking. They're doing a lot of stuff, aren't they? Not the big thing they should have spotted, but maybe I'm just too kind that I should hammer them like everyone else. I mean, it's a terrible mistake. I know it is. I'm with you in that, I mean, they notice he's there, don't they? Because they're having a look to see if he's touched the ball.
10:54but just at no point does it twig that they needed to check whether he was offside or not and he goes back doesn't he I can't remember what the phraseology is but basically go AAP or something basically go back to the start roll it through check everyone's onside yeah but I like the way how Webb comes out in that you know someone like Jose Mourinho or Alex Ferguson was always like yeah defend your players in public I will never say anything bad in public whereas how we're like basically the opposite it's like yeah they've messed up it's their fault and but But it is, I know it's easy. Well, it is easy to sit at home and say they should have got it right.
11:28And they should have got it right. And Jay Boffroy was actually very good. I thought I'd never say that I wanted to hear more from Jay Boffroy. Down the barrel. But he was very good. Come here and say it. Look down the camera. And then the presenter goes, well, he was live when he was saying it. Yeah, but come here. Come into this studio and talk to me. So I like that from Boffroy. But I've also been in a pressure situation at work where it is easy to get tunnel vision and look at everything else. And then you finish and someone else points out something really obvious that you should have got.
12:00And they should have got it. Of course they should. But humans make mistakes. I just wonder at what point during the game in the next five, ten minutes have they realised in that booth that they've missed that and messed it up? I mean, just that stomach-dropping moment. It'd be hard to come back from that. It's nice we're getting that audio. It's not nice they're getting it wrong. I feel like Barry's the most intimidating of the four of us on here. Can we get Barry to, like, stare down the barrel and try and get Howard Webb on this podcast to see if he'll come and justify himself to us?
12:28Max Rushden:Well, I don't think I'm intimidating at all, but Howard has explained himself on the referee show he does with Michael Owen or that VAR show. They've acknowledged the error. I don't think anyone's actually apologized for it. And he doesn't seem like a particularly humble man, Webb. But I wonder at what point is he going to be held accountable for his employees' egregious errors? Because on this occasion, they just forgot that they had to check whether Fernandes was interfering with play. They were so busy rocking and rolling to see if he touched the ball that they just forgot to check, oh, is he interfering with play?
13:08Max Rushden:and Webb has he explained to Michael Owen that there's a process and then there's a process in place to check on that process so his solution now appears to be to add another a third layer of process to check the process that's checking the process it's just bullshit they messed up these things happen but in a game of that magnitude you said earlier Max that United were unlucky against City they deserved to lose they were second best but they didn't deserve to lose because of a mistake like that sure sure i'll say have to be good processes lads good processes um anyway i mean more var as and well i'm sure uh liverpool three spurs one um we should start at the end dan with that sobers light sure i mean the the angle from behind him is just oh chest let it bounce hit it it's so good he's such a such a good player like he was good when he first came to liverpool but the last 12 months he has taken his game to a completely different level to the point where I think he'll probably end up being Liverpool club captain at some point.
14:15He's just far and away their best player right now and was under Arna Schlott as well and he's there to achieve anywhere near the goals that they want to achieve this season. They're going to rely really heavily on him. Half the time he's not even playing in his right position but the technique that that guy has, he's up there as one of the best players in the Premier League and at the moment, nothing he does really surprises me because he scored some lovely guys. Both teams made lots of changes. Liverpool made 10, Spurs made 8. But Barry, it was three elite finishes against a team that could have, like I don't feel too downhearted from the performance, but you know, they need to find a barn door they can hit or they need to just look at what Liverpool did.
14:56Like it's a skill in the game and Liverpool had it.
14:59Max Rushden:It is a skill in the game and we were all teetering at Spurs after they lost this one. And Jamie O 'Hara was losing his mind on talk sport in the face of extreme provocation from Jason Cundey. But I thought Spurs were okay in this game, actually. And if it hadn't been for their banter start of the season and you didn't know about that and you were watching it, you'd go, oh, they're not bad. They're just not taking their chances. Marmadash Vili was in goal for Liverpool. He made two brilliant saves. and Bergvall, Koudas, Marmouche had chances. They should have scored. Beyond that, Liverpool took the chances, as you say, and Spurs didn't.
15:44Max Rushden:But I didn't think... I've seen them play worse this season. Well, I mean, we all have, but... A little prediction. I suspect by the sooner rather than later, Marmadashvili will take over from Alisson as Liverpool's first-choice keeper, I'd say, before Christmas. Interesting. Yeah, he did have a good game, didn't he? And another one for McAllister as well. It's another lovely finish. So maybe he's happier than he was a couple of weeks ago. Ipswich 2-Arsenal 4. I mean, Max Downman's the story. And Sam, I have only today realised just how long this international break is. And like everyone else, I'm totally traumatised by what they expect any of us to do on the second week of it.
16:27You know, can I do another podcast on should Jed Spence be playing left back or whatever it is maybe if Tuchel picked Dalman we'd have something to talk about for the next two weeks my plans are I'm going to go on holiday I'm taking the opportunity to go to the Dutch version of centre parks because there's no football on but Max Dalman I mean 15 16 year old young footballers are very much in the news at the moment I think the way Arsenal were handling him is absolutely wonderful I think we forget there's people and he's basically children and but he is a child playing like a fully grown adult i mean there's just sometimes you see a footballer and just the little things they do i don't know what it is and even to the relatively untrained eye you just that you just go oh everything they they do makes you purr and i know there's a bit of confirmation bias in there as well once you're already thinking that but the the composure he's got um to be playing to be in and around a team of that level and to be someone that Michael Arteta already knows that if he turns to him, when he turns to him, he can rely on him is quite something.
17:32I mean, do we want to see him in the England squad? Yeah, in some ways, yes, because for me personally, those games often lack excitement and seeing someone like Max Damman in there would bring a little bit of extra interest. Is it too early? I don't know. It's not a call I would like to have to make, but you certainly think on talent, he wouldn't look out of place. Yeah, his feet, Dan, are so quick, aren't they? He's absolutely outrageous. I think the England talk for me would be premature because he's not playing for Arsenal every single week. They're doing a really good job actually of protecting him.
18:06They just seem to wheel him out in cup games and the odd Premier League game. He looks like a superstar and then maybe you don't see him again for a couple of weeks. He might be a bit more of an advantage this season because Arsenal obviously haven't invested loads in the top three positions. I know it's not necessarily his position, but Trossard and Martinelli went and were replaced with one player. So there may be an option for more game time for him elsewhere if Eze moves to the left and the guard's not available for whatever reason. So we'll probably see him more so this season. But I think you protect him.
18:35I think as good as he is, you don't want to see him anywhere near the England squad right now. I think that would be irresponsible. I think it would be completely the wrong thing to do until he's more of a big part player for Arsenal, I think you've got to keep him away from it. Okay. I mean, I was being selfish, I guess. I just wanted, you know, I wanted some material and I should think about Max Downwind's future. Yes, Barry?
18:55Max Rushden:That shimmy and soft shoe shuffle he did to put Cedric Kipre on his backside in the lead up to the first goal was beautiful. Head up, not looking at the ball, advancing. He's brilliant. And the obvious contrast is with JJ Gabriel. at Manchester United, who's a 15-year-old, who's asked to leave the club, apparently due to interest from various European heavyweights, including Barcelona and Real Madrid. There's talk that he's been badly advised, doesn't have good people around him. But then you look at the bin fire that is Manchester United, and maybe he would be better off leaving, who knows. And then other prodigies coming through, like there's Chris Rigg at Sunderland.
19:42Max Rushden:And I think back to the time when we all used to hear about this brilliant kid who was at West Ham, but we never really saw him. It was Joe Cole. So who went on to have a very good career, but maybe fizzled out a bit towards the end. But you really need to nurture these young talents and, yeah, just look after them. And Arsenal really seemed to be doing that with Downman. Yeah, you're right. I mean, there was Ravel Morrison, wasn't there? And I suppose there's just so much goes into it. and like, Damund might be brilliant at 16, obviously fitness matters, but you just don't, you just don't know if you think how good Dele Alli was, like, your career, it's, and that's sometimes when we take for granted, you know.
20:23Rooney was another one. Sure, yeah, and you know, Rooney obviously was brilliant and stayed brilliant and they're just, it's just hard to be at that level consistently for so long. You know, and Arsenal had lots of youngsters, didn't they? Marley Salmon, playing at centre-back, I mean, the big question is whether he has a good leap, of course, but you know, I thank you so much. Presumably not the first, but it was the first thing that came to mind. They finished the game with five teenagers on the pitch,
20:52Max Rushden:so that's good. Doing everything right at the moment. Yeah, Aoife Ibrahim, Theo Julian, players that a lot of people won't have heard of as well. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do the rest of the Carroward Cup and the Sunderland in Europe as well.
21:16Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Villa won 3-1 at Coventry. Dan, did you go last night? You didn't go last night. A failure to get tickets on my behalf, which was pretty poor for me. Left it too late, really. But I sat at home and watched it. Pretty routine victory. Both teams kind of had a mix of players who'd been in the first team and giving people minutes who needed minutes. and Villa's reserves were better than Coventry's reserves, as you probably expect. Tammy Abraham has been hopeless since the start of the season. He managed to get two goals. That'll do him the world of good.
21:53Villa so far have won two games this season, one in the Champions League, one in the Carabao Cup, so I wish all of our games were cup matches right now. It maybe just gives Villa a bit of impetus going into the Tottenham game on Saturday lunchtime, which is a really, really big game for both teams, I think, now with the way they've started. so it was a useful exercise for Villa Ibrahim and by the 50 million pound man from PSG he's only 18 he played and looked lively and had a good cameo the other day as well so yeah it was pretty routine for Villa in the hat for the next round but I'm not sure it's high on the list of Unai Emery's priorities right now.
22:27Yeah lovely ball from Eddie Hemmings to set Tammy Abrahams up for the first I just want him to be like a middle-aged off spinner whenever I hear Hemmings but or a rugby league commentator of course and that's Eddie Waring doesn't matter Alejandro Garnaccio seems like the kind of game he would should have played in don't know what's going on there it's very much looking like Harvey Elliott mark two Emery was asked about it afterwards and he the line he gave was that because of things that went on in pre-season uh he's a little bit behind everyone else yeah you got this so he'll have to sit there patiently and so it was the standard line and you You know, Manzambi comes on, doesn't he come back from injury?
Read the full transcript
23:05If you're not going to get 15 minutes when you're free one up. He had a concussion protocol in pre-season where he missed two weeks and he couldn't play in the Super Cup. But yeah, he'd have had more of a pre-season than Manzambi who got injured at the World Cup. It looks very, very strange right now. I think maybe you wouldn't think as much of it if the Harvey Elliott stuff hadn't happened last season. But obviously it did. it's either he's not ready or his attitude in training isn't brilliant in which case with emery you won't get on the pitch or it's a combination of the two but i'd just be speculating at the moment you you'd think carabao cup third round when you're making changes that's that's the time to unleash him and look it it hasn't happened he has to continue working work work train work when he can have minutes to play try and play well he's progressing we have players in front of him now that's what emery said lovely goal from uh coventry victor torp putting a free You kicked right in the top corner, wasn't it?
24:00Thanks, everybody. Everton beat Wolves 1-0. Sam, you're at this one. You got a last-minute ticket. As Barry said in the WhatsApp group, it sounds like some sort of self-flagellation or penance. But you made it all this. How far away from the Hill Dickinson are you, Sam? It's an hour. It's an easy end. I love it as a ground. It's not the easiest. Well, it's easy to get to within two miles of it. Then it's a bit like the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium where actually finding somewhere to park is a bit of a nightmare. But any chance to go to Everton or Liverpool I love because the stewards, the friendliness of the stewards at both of those ground is just on a different level.
24:35I always love visiting them. It wasn't the worst game for a game that looked like it was heading for penalties before Alcarez comes off the bench. A little bit of magic to finish it off. Everton, they're a strange old team. I thought Wolves pretty much matched them for much of the game. It opened up a little bit later on. But Moyes is just, he's like the last generation of, or the last of his generation of managers still. I'm sure there's more to it, but it feels like his generation of managers were like, keep it solid and then give it to your best players and get them to do something. And Grealish was back and started last night.
25:13And it's very much give the ball to Grealish. And it used to be in die this year. Dibbling, the Everton fans around me seemed, the consensus was that he had his best game in an Everton shirt and he provides an assist for the goal. Tiano Barry continues to, wow, you just want him to do well. There's something very like about him. I liked Beto, but he just doesn't seem to be that good. And he should have scored at the end of the first half. Jal Virginia makes a brilliant save. But Everton, Johnson comes on and plays up front. Brennan Johnson came on through the middle and they might arguably look better when they had him up front.
25:48With everything that's gone on with Everton so far, they're unbeaten at the start of the season they've got home tie in the next round of the cup and these are the kind of competitions that some a team like Everton where they are at the moment could be looking to go on and go quite far so it's one of those well job done in the hat for the next round so they can be pleased with their night's work I like Charlie Alcaraz did that kind of look who's talking now celebration you know like the sort of two glove puppets you know finger and I was like who's been talking about Charlie Alcaraz I don't know you might be able to hear one of, I think, Willie Rushton screaming.
26:20Maybe he's a big Charlie Alcarez fan.
26:22Max Rushden:Anything else to take your interest? Well, there was that good game between West Ham and Fulham, wasn't there? Which Fulham ultimately won 3-2. Again, it was sort of mix and match at both squads. It was a decent game. The draw has been made, I think, for the next round. I know Sunderland at Brentford, but I can't remember. Oh, and Fleetwood are at home to Arsenal. Fleetwood play at Highbury, so, you know, Arsenal back at Highbury. Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Newcastle and Mancini or Norwich who play tonight will play Brighton Ok then to the Europa League Sunderland 1, Eze Alkmaar 0 from Mick Horswell in 1973 to Enzo Le Fay in 2026 first goal in European competition since October of 73 when Sunderland beat Sporting Lisbon 2-1 at Roker Park before losing the away leg The atmosphere, Baz, looked and sounded amazing in this game Very loud Sunderland had the pre-match TIFO of a ship with more lands to conquer or something it was a big occasion on Wearside as you say, first European football for 53 years I was very confident ahead of kick-off and then Sunderland were missing so many chances I thought, oh, they're going to blow this but they didn't, they won 1-0 courtesy of an Enzo Le Fay penalty which he won the penalty.
27:49He took it himself despite having missed one against Arsenal
27:53Max Rushden:on Saturday night. He put it in the same corner. The Alkmaar goalkeeper didn't get to it. He sent him the wrong way. But this game was an Enzo Le Fay masterclass and he's fast becoming one of my favourite players of all time, I have to say. He's just so good. But Sunderland survived an early scare. after actually a loose pass from Enzo almost allowed Alkmaar to open the scoring. But he was pulling the strings from then on. He hit the post. He scored the winner. And then Sunderland had to survive a bit of a late onslaught from AZ Alkmaar with Robin Roos called upon to make a brilliant save. A fella called Pateta stabbed the ball over the bar with the goal gaping.
28:48Max Rushden:And then Nilsson Anguilo had a shot kept out by a brilliant save right at the death. But really good start to the Europa League campaign. And yeah, it was a good night on Wyrsait. Yeah, some good games as well. Dino Mozagreb at home. Milan away. Poznan away. You're going to Poznan, aren't you, Barry? I am going to Poznan. And I shall obey local tradition by standing with my back to the game and with my arms around the shoulders. While Noel Gallagher stands facing the right way at the front. All right, that'll do for part two. We'll do a Premier League preview in part three.
29:34Hello and welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Before we look ahead to the Premier League weekend, Sam, we do need to talk about Newcastle getting gubbed by Leeds on Monday night because we haven't done a pod since then. And I guess before we do Newcastle, lots of people were quite loudly positive about Leeds before the season. And I was a bit surprised I hadn't really paid enough attention to what they'd done over the summer or what shape they were in. But they did. They blew you away. Well, fortunately for me, I didn't go. I was working. And there's probably not a great crossover between pensions professionals and Football Weekly listeners.
30:05but I was stuck reading about something called anti-franking, which is about as complex as it gets. And anyway, by the time I finished reading about anti-franking, BBC Sport had told me Newcastle we're 3-0 down at Ellen Road. And so I made an executive decision along with my wife to watch the finale of Ludwig rather than the second half, which I think proved to be a good decision. But I have watched back highlights and leads. They just look like a team who knows their identity, knows exactly who they want to be. Dominic Calvert-Lewin, they've managed to keep him fit. I think when they signed him, they had a complete faith in his ability.
30:42It was keeping him fit. He's been out on the pitch. Trafford's gone in and goal. They've got enough quality in the side. They're big, they're physical, and they don't have what Sunderland, for example, are about to face of having two games in a week to deal with. So I think they're going to be very good. Newcastle, they had a brilliant start, that performance at home to Liverpool, and then they went to Spurs and won. but this sort of vertical high pressing or whatever it's called high-paced football the last couple of games has been really missing and they did well to get out of the den at Millwall to progress in the cup the manager I think is that wake-up call people said at the start of the season yeah yeah got to be given time there will be bumps in the road this is a very young side it's going to be you know finishing 12th again might be about right and then everyone got really excited after the first couple of games went oh actually we can we couldn't can and should get in to Europe everyone's really exciting um but yeah I think it's going to be a bit of a struggle there are going to be performances like this and every team can put in a performance like that there were a couple of mitigating factors you know they've missed Byrne and Joe Linton who are in a summer where they've lost a lot of experience they've missed a couple of their their big leadership um figures Gonzalez goes off early Ramsey wasn't able to come off the bench Willis Sula actually hasn't played since the first game of the season so there's mitigation that sounds a little bit like excuses I think the reaction at home to Hull on Saturday which is a very difficult game is going to be telling but yeah I feel like this won't be the first time Newcastle will get a bit of a walloping just hopefully they're few and far between from a Newcastle perspective.
32:19Yeah and Hull's good start Barry it's sort of got me to the point of now expecting to do something which is presumably the point where all the wheels fall off and Hull revert to what we all expected Hull to be But I mean, if you look at the form of those teams and the way they're playing, especially after that result for Newcastle, I feel like Hull might be the favourites for this game.
32:36Max Rushden:They certainly would be on the evidence of Newcastle's first half in this game. They were completely blown away. There was no aggression from them. They kept giving the ball away. They lost every individual battle. They're second to every ball. It was quite shocking, really, how much they couldn't cope with Leeds' speed and pressing and physicality. I think Giselle got it wrong with his setup because Leeds crowd the midfield, don't they? And Newcastle just had a two-man midfield. It was sort of a 4-2-4, and Leeds were just cantering through at will. So it seems unlikely that Newcastle will play that badly again, but I'm certainly not going to write off those chances.
33:24Max Rushden:they have been really good so far like really good Nico Gonzalez will be missing from the whole game because he suffered a concussion during this game he got smacked a ball in the face after 15 minutes he quite clearly was not right and he was allowed to continue for another 15 minutes before he had to go off and it just boils my piss to see that happen I completely agree lead time to Palace so a good opportunity to win again. Chelsea go to Brentford. Chelsea chairman Todd Bowley and director Mark Walter have sold their stakes in the club to majority owner Clear Lake Capital. Swiss billionaire Hans-Og Wies has also sold his stake which means Clear Lake have now acquired full control of the club.
34:09I wonder, Dan, and I don't expect you to know, but it seems like a big headline but I don't know if this makes any difference. Does it make any difference? Todd Bowley seems to be like the figurehead for laughing at a team spending a billion and selling hotels for themselves. But Clear Lake Capital have been there the whole time or can you envision this being a big change for the club? I mean, sometimes you hear a question about to be asked and you think, I hope he doesn't say my name after that. Unfortunately, you said my name. It was just on rotation. No, no, no.
34:42Max Rushden:I looked around. I did a little fist bump when I heard Dan say it. No expert on this and obviously it only happened before we were about to come on. I think it's been in the works, obviously it's been in the works for a fair while. I don't think it will make a difference to anything. Obviously, I thought Clear Lake owned Chelsea anyway, so I can't say that it's going to make a huge amount of difference. I mean, they've made some semi-decent footballing decisions in the last kind of six, seven, eight weeks, so you'd hope for their sake that that continues. They've changed how they're doing things slightly, but I can't see, in my unexpert opinion, that it's going to make a single bit of difference.
35:16I'm sorry that Kieran Maguire wasn't here on this panel. I had to look around. You know, as you said, Barry might be the most intimidating. That was a low bar, but the most intellectual. The bar was even lower. I mean, Sam's an expert and I should have gone to Sam, really. Gerald Pedro wants a new name for the Fund 3. He doesn't like CPR. Cole Palmer doesn't like JP Morgan. I think CPR is a good one because it's good to highlight, raise awareness for CPR. When they all are retired and they're short of money, they can do an advert for the British Heart Foundation. I think it's a really good idea.
35:50That shouting is Ian Rushton, who I've locked out of the studio. Spurs Villa then. I mean, who is more worried about this one, Dan, me or you? Every football fan will feel the same. I don't like to be going to a place where a team hasn't won a game or scored a goal yet. That feels like you're asking for trouble. No football fan in their right mind would want to go and play that game. So I'm worried from that. I mean, we've only scored one goal and we haven't won a game, so it's not like the bar is particularly high here. Could be one of the worst games of football that you ever see, or it could go completely the other way and be like 4-4 or something.
36:24I think Villa and Spurs had a 4-4 back in 2007 or something. Are you surprised at your start? Not really. I mean, I think I'd be more worried if last year hadn't happened, but obviously it's a different group of players now. I think the main problem for Villa has been is that they've obviously lost the amount of players that they've lost, but they were also their best players. Their replacements, a lot of them haven't been able to play yet because of injury or arriving late or whatever. So actually Villa's kind of backup players from last season have started the season. We were good in the first half last week, but really poor in the second.
37:00We've got a decent record at Spurs over the last few years, but at some point Tottenham will put the ball in the back of the net and I have a horrible feeling it will probably be Saturday. I mean, they might not. I guess, Barry, from a Tottenham point of view, there's every minute ticks by in that game. Because at the end of the game, it looked quite promising. And then like 25 minutes in and they're all like, oh, we haven't scored yet. So maybe this won't happen again. And I presume from, I don't know how neutral you are, but as a neutral, I mean, you'd want Villa to win this game, wouldn't you?
37:27Max Rushden:Yeah, I think we're all finding Tottenham's travails amusing. It's not a great ad for the Premier League, is it? when two of the bigger teams in the division are meeting and they've played a combined eight games between them and have no wins and no goals. Or one goal, is it? That's a disservice, Barra. Sorry, yeah. So that, yeah, it's not a great ad for the greatest league in the world, TM, is it? Well, it might be a good advert. It shows the strength and depth from the other teams. There are mitigating factors for Villa. They sold, you know, half the team, more than half the team that won the Europa League final.
38:08Max Rushden:And they're trying to bet in the replacements. That and many of the replacements on the face of it don't look as good as the players that are replacing. Unai Emery may well improve them because he does that with players. But so there's definitely mitigating factors for Villa's bad start to the season. And Spurs, not so much given the money they've spent. You've already alluded, Max, to the fact that we have this interminable international break coming up. But I think there's a few managers that will be under a bit of pressure if their teams don't get positive results this weekend. De Zerbe, Frank Lampard, Pierre Sarge at Palace, Arbelow at Fulham and Carrick at Manchester United could all be in.
38:54Max Rushden:They will be under pressure if their teams get beaten this weekend. I think yeah I think you're right I mean the interest break is so long that they could sack someone and then that manager could get sacked as well because they just had a bad start even though they haven't played any games I don't know I really goes to Bournemouth he should get a nice reception Sam how do you see that one? Well I mean Bournemouth have got that have a big game tonight haven't they a trip to Real Sociedad which for them a few years ago would have just felt so far away is it a cliche now to say that no one wants to go to Bournemouth.
39:29It's just a really difficult game. And there's the Iriola factor. They've started OK, Liverpool, haven't they? They're not great. They haven't lost a Premier League game. They're not great defensively. If he goes there and loses, is he under a bit of pressure? It's maybe not quite the extreme of the other guys, but it's not been the start they'd have hoped. I mean, Bournemouth are just such a good football team at the moment. I watched them up at Newcastle the other week, and you're just like, I think there's still this, a bit like what I said earlier about how in our heads, Manchester United are still this BMOF huge club that should be good.
40:06Bournemouth psychologically still should just be Bournemouth and they're so much better than that. They're a really, really good football team. Alexander Izac got a couple of goals at Ipswich. They just need him to get going. Like, I can't see a world where he doesn't get back to being the centre forward he was not that long ago. And when he starts firing, I think Liverpool will be a completely different team. But they need it to happen sooner rather than later. We've talked a lot about Manchester United. They go to Fulham. That's the Super Sunday game. Arsenal go to Brighton. Sunderland go to Manchester City.
40:46Yes, Barry?
40:47Max Rushden:Fulham just shouldn't be a Super Sunday. The Super Sunday topic. I'm sorry. But it's just not right. Isn't it like Spurs last season where that's turned into appointment viewing now because Manchester United are in a little bit of a mini crisis and everyone watches to kind of set their downfall. Yeah, true. Forrest Carve and Everton Ipswich. Bit of AO. B. Raheem Sterling's been guilty to dangerous driving. He was driving on the motorway while inhaling nitrous oxide before crashing. He's been bailed until the 25th of November, still without a club, of course. It's sort of a shame, I guess, isn't it, Barry?
41:24I don't know what level he wants to play or how well high up he can play, but you talked about careers fizzling out earlier. And careers, I guess, do. It's really hard unless you leave when you're at your absolute best. But clearly, the end of his career hasn't been perfect.
41:44Max Rushden:He's been far from perfect. He could be looking at jail time here. I think this goes beyond football. It emerged at his court hearing, you know, he'd been up all night. He was driving so fast and so erratically that for several hours, several concerned citizens called three different police forces to alert them to this. He's very lucky he didn't kill or seriously injure himself or someone else. So hopefully this will be a wake-up call for him. and I'd say him getting a football club at the moment is probably the least of his worries. Bit of a gear change to the number of correspondence we've had about amateur referees or refereeing after specifically Barney on Monday, but everyone talked about who would want to be a referee.
42:36Robert Peacock writes, Hi Max and Co, my ears twitched when Barry mentioned we should try to convert NASA engineers into referees. As someone who sits within the Venn diagram of football referee and rocket engineer, I can provide some insight. I spent eight years in Scotland working my way up the leagues, reaching the Lowland League as a referee and League One as assistant referee. I hung on my whistle four years ago and moved to New Zealand to work as a design engineer for Rocket Lab. I can confirm that designing and building rockets is much easier than trying to control a field of 22 angry Glaswegians plus coaching staff and fans.
43:10With rocket engineers chalked off the list, maybe the answer is with brain surgeons or nuclear physicists. All the best. Keep up the good work. Robert thank you Robert um uh this one from uh uh Mark is quite long but he says uh a long time listener about seven years felt compelled to write after Barney's comments about refereeing uh following the Manchester derby I've been waiting for years to hear a pundit any pundit on any platform make this argument I couldn't agree more there are two separate VAR debates the first is the big philosophical one do we actually want VAR and everything that comes with it not sure there's an easy answer to that most people seem against yeah I'm against it but once you've decided it's staying.
43:47The second question, what sort of people should actually be operating this increasingly complicated system? Barney was spot on. I have a degree in math, so PhD in computational statistics. I work in data science. I particularly enjoyed his use of phrase data wonk. I spent years wondering what to tell people I actually do. Data scientist sounds vague. Mathematical modeler sounds unbearably geeky. Statistician somehow sounds even worse. Professional data wonk is perfect. Had I discovered it while single, it would unquestionably have gone on the dating profile, probably reducing my matches by 90%.
44:19Referring has changed into a fundamentally different job. I don't think refs are dishonest or incompetent. I think many are being asked to perform a task for which the traditional refereeing pathway simply hasn't prepared them. They sometimes remind me of people I've seen in data science roles who simply are not well suited to the job. As Barney suggested, why not recruit people specifically for those skills? Mathematicians, statisticians, data scientists, people accustomed to making structured decisions for imperfect evidence and then train them in the laws and conventions of football. I'm not volunteering, incidentally.
44:50I do think Barney is right. Eventually, refereeing has to become a much more specialised, analytically sophisticated profession. The jobs evolved enormously. The people and structures around it need to evolve too. And then there was some incredible praise for me, which I'm too humble to read out. But it does have the words extraordinarily good in it so I have read it out anyway thank you Mark for your message and you're welcome to email footballweeklyattheguardian.com if you disagree with the first bit or the second bit of his email and that'll do for today, thank you everybody thank you Barry, thank you thanks Dan, thanks Max cheers Sam, you're welcome thanks Max, Football Weekly is notice no one agreed on your praise there, they all sounded very solemn and just said goodbye, Football Weekly is It's produced by Rory Simon.
45:39The executive producer is Taiya Papula. And we'll be back on Monday.
45:54Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.
46:03We have the tech to get food delivered in 15 minutes, but we all have horror stories about buying tickets. The GameTime app gives fans the advantage. Get amazing tickets in just a few taps. Fees are included, so what you see is what you pay. And the GameTime guarantee means authentic tickets at the best price every time. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets to concerts, sports, comedy, and more with GameTime. Download the GameTime app and create an account for$20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.