Messi in a class of his own and rain stops play in Philadelphia: World Cup Daily

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0:52Mark Langdon:Hi, PodFans. Max here. Barry's here, too. Hello. Football Weekly is supported by Hotels.com. Now, Barry, question, when you're booking a hotel, do you use Hotels.com? Actually, you're probably just going to say, I don't know. Producer Joel does it. I don't know. Producer Joel does it. Well, I think you should give it a try for yourself. Obviously, it's a massive summer of soccer and loads of our listeners will be travelling to watch the tournament and needing to book somewhere great to stay. So it's good to know that when you're a Hotels.com member, you can save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels.

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1:56Mark Langdon:Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Remember that pod we did last week about Haaland, Messi and Mbappe? I guess you could just go back and listen to that one again and we could all go home. Lionel Messi becomes the leading scorer in World Cup history, the first player to score in six different World Cups. Argentina have scored five goals so far. Messi has all of them. We've run out of saying we've run out of things to say about him. And then Kylian Mbappe scored twice against Iraq in a game that took about three days. The first was better than the second. Iraq, again, really not helping themselves.

2:22Mark Langdon:Mbappe, the second highest scorer, level with Miroslav Kloza, who's getting a lot of mentions this tournament. And then Erling Haaland, two brilliant finishes and a 3-2 win for Norway over Senegal. It was tense at the end, but they got over the line. Also today, we'll look ahead to tomorrow, including England versus Ghana and fitness concerns over Declan Rice and Bakayo Saka. But Thomas Tuchel says everyone is available. There's Mark Langdon's first night out and has he eaten a vegetable yet? Your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, all in LA together, Barry Glendening, hello.

2:52Mark Langdon:Hello, Max. The US Soccer Editor, Alex Abnos. Hey, Alex. Hello, Max. And from the Racing Post, Mark Langdon. Hi, Max. A day in, Mark. We'll get to vegetables and all that. It's been two nights out, actually, even in the one day. It has been. Wow. You're an animal. We're recording before Jordan Algeria, by the way, so we'll cover that on tomorrow's pod. But let's start with the other game from that group, Group J. Argentina 2, Austrian 0. So Messi has the record all-time goals at World Cups with 18. He got it in the 38th minute with a sort of vintage Messi finish. five goals in two games and a missed penalty he's on 18 closer and Mbappe on 16 the real Ronaldo on 15 Gert Müller 14 just Fontaine on 13 well it seems unlikely that Müller and Fontaine will add to those does anybody want to say anything about Messi anything new well because we've run out of things to say about the fact that we've run out of things to say about how great Messi is I would like to focus on his many shortcomings as a footballer.

3:47He missed a penalty today and broke another record by becoming the first player to miss penalties in three different World Cups. Right. Now, how can you have someone that unreliable in your side? He's clearly a liability. He's missed penalties against Austria today, which he put wide. Poland in 2022 which was saved and Iceland in 2018 so he's good for one penalty miss in each of the last three World Cups and one penalty miss in every two World Cup he plays he should be left at home

4:23Mark Langdon:He does have a reassuring average penalty record for someone who is otherwise quite good at this Yes, I was looking at Transfer Market's website and Messi's penalty record is success rate only 78 % which is below average generally said that four in five penalties would be scored. We were listening on US TV and Owen Argreaves, who was co-commentator, he couldn't believe that the penalty was missed. He actually said he was 100 % certain it would go in. He is an average penalty taker, but Barry's being slightly facetious. Which is unlike Barry. It's very unlike Barry. Two nights out, you know him so well.

5:05We don't speak that much though. So we just sit at the bar in silence, which is just how he likes it. But I think from Argentina's point of view, they play to Messi's strengths still. And another thing he's not good at, Barry, is tracking back. He's never been particularly good out of possession. And yet Argentina sacrifice other players. The four in midfield will do the work of five to make sure that it doesn't matter, that Messi stands around when they haven't got possession. and I love these first goal because somebody said to me, like, describe a Messi goal. I feel like I've seen that one just like, you know, a thousand times before when he does just hit it with the instep of that left foot coming in and I just love watching him score goals.

5:55I don't think I'll ever get bored of it. The second one was almost tackle. It was almost a tackle the way it went in but it's amazing to see him still producing the goods at the age that he is in an Argentina team that actually going into the tournament I didn't fancy that much but the more I'm watching them the more they feel like a strong tournament team yeah definitely and they're getting contributions from everywhere obviously like Messi is getting all the headlines and he should because he's playing about as well as he uh as he has in a world cup but on that first goal for example you know I think Tiago Almada deserves a lot lot lot of credit for that goal because he not only controlled the initial pass in from the sideline from Messi, which was not an easy ball to control, even though it was like on his right foot because everything Messi does is perfect.

6:41But then he drove it forward, stuck with the play. And as soon as he got rid of the ball to the left flank, you could see him check his shoulder. He looked around. So he knew that Messi was right behind him, which is what enabled him to just not touch the ball and play that perfect dummy. It was like one of the most beautiful examples of a dummy you will ever see so you have when you have the greatest player ever to play and then also players like tiago amada who are also very talented willingly you know playing dummies to him and and doing all sorts of uh team related things that really really bodes well i think well i was just going to say it's very difficult to avoid drawing comparisons with a certain other team with a multiple Ballon d 'Or winner playing up front with them and how the same policy may not be being applied by the 10 other teammates on the pitch.

7:31The way I was thinking of that is the same question. What would they do without him? Applies equally, but in very different contexts to both teams.

7:39Mark Langdon:That's the thing about Messi, though. He doesn't look any different to the last World Cup, fitness-wise and the way he runs and moves. I still think there could be another one in him, you know? Really? I do, yeah. Is he too? Because he does very little running. Mark has already said he does a lot of standing around, very little running, and just the way he can just stand in one spot and just send balls wide, you know, hither and yon, and always finds his man. But, well, let's see how he gets on in this World Cup first. He's doing all right so far, but I do think there could be another one in him.

8:14Mark Langdon:And so is the difference between him and Ronaldo though, that he's not having to play right up front. It's a different position. And are the Argentinians sacrificing more than the Portuguese? Or is it just because it's a different position? Up front, if you can't run and press, it is different. I think for Portugal, if Portugal played two up front, they would lose one of their brilliant midfielders, which would seem a really dumb thing to do. Argentina, their midfield is good, but it's not as graceful as that Portuguese one. You want to get all of those Portuguese ones in there. I think for Argentina, because they played two up front, Lautaro will do a lot of running in behind.

8:54So maybe if Portugal could get Ramos up front with Ronaldo... He's a bit of a lump still. Lump is harsh, but you know. But that kind of... I think it helps if you've got somebody playing close to you and Ronaldo just wants crosses in the box all the time and it's such a... I would say it's not the way that Portugal would ordinarily play. Well, those midfielders wouldn't play like that. No, they wouldn't. But the Argentina team, I think, would still play like this if that makes sense. Got it. The primary difference I would make between Messi and Ronaldo at this point is that Ronaldo just needs a moment.

9:26And he is just failing to rise to those moments again and again. Whereas Messi is thriving. Yes, he does not run most of the time. But when he does need to run, he really runs aggressively. And he's able to string together a lot of small moments into something that becomes big. I think you saw that on the second goal. He made like two or three small plays in a row that were nonetheless very skillful that enabled him to be in the position to make that tackle to score the goal. There was also a run, a shot that was blocked in the first half, I think, when it was, you know, and that was like classic Messi jinking around players.

9:59So he still got lots of the things that made him great. And I would say that maybe that's not as obvious with Cristiano Ronaldo now.

10:09Mark Langdon:producer Joel wanted to point out the assist for his opener from Fakunda Medina his name is essentially Funky Cold Medina by Tone Locke the 1989 hit and one for the kids I think it's Tone Locke is it Tone Locke? I think so I believe that is correct that's okay what you lose with Jimmy Somerville you regain with Tone Locke amazingly before my time I think Austria, Baz, quite good I thought they were alright yeah yeah they were decent enough but they created very little and they couldn't put away what few chances they did have Marcel Subitzer I think had a free kick saved by Martinez Gregorich had a header that he put over possibly could have done better with but they were fairly well beaten but not terrible ok that'll do for part 1 part 2 we'll begin with that game between France and Iraq that started some years ago.

11:13Mark Langdon:This episode is supported by Boss, formal wear provider for the US men's national soccer team. For soccer's biggest event this summer, the US is playing on home soil and Boss will be dressing the US players and coach Maurizio Pochettino in Boss Performance business wear for their off-pitch appearances. Boss and the USMNT share the same values, discipline, precision and the confidence to perform under pressure. US fans can look sharp too in the Boss Performance collection and wear their passion with special fan wear capsule and embroidered badges in national colors. Own the moment with confidence.

11:43Mark Langdon:Discover the Boss Performance Collection as worn by the U.S. men's national soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion, your way. Available now at Boss.com or at your nearest Boss store. Hashtag be your own Boss.

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12:53Mark Langdon:welcome to part two of the guardian football weekly so france 3 iraq nil in philadelphia with that two hour delay i spoke to philippe in the middle of the night he stayed up but we said you don't have to stay up but he did and he was tired bonjour ça va philippe au clair est-ce Oh, je suis crevé, Max. Just think, though, you could be three minutes more tired if they hadn't cancelled the hydration break in the wet of the second half. I was looking forward to that. I was hoping to see this. I was wondering which song they would play really blaring out on the speakers of the stadium to cover the booze, but it wasn't to be.

13:36Mark Langdon:Because this game took about two days. I don't know if you can remember the start of it, but, you know, it's an interesting day where Messi does that and then Mbappe does this. And I don't know if this will be the story of this tournament. I don't know if it'll be the story of the tournament, but it was very much the story of the evening, of the two evenings or how many evenings it took to finish that. And I have to say, Max, that I haven't seen Bappe as, what would be the word, a young fawn discovering spring again. He was full of vim and it seems like everything he was doing was a little bit quicker than usually that has been.

14:21And what he did was absolutely superb, I must say. And, yeah, it seems there is a little bit of a toile, as we say in French, between those guys. And, again, fairly impressive performance by France, I must say. Few changes. Nothing really affected the way that they played. And, again, I think that, I mean, it has to be stressed out. I don't think many people were expecting Iraq to put up such a good show because they did. actually play some decent football and they were beaten by a team that simply at times was totally unplayable I have to say the kind of surface that they played on as well favoured France in a way the way the ball was fizzing and on the grass which is always lovely to see did favour the kind of super fast team that France had put together with Barcola starting I mean it's absolutely frightening Bacolet the way he starts and the speed with which he moves and again Mbappé who was yeah absolutely terrific and didn't celebrate with the James Corden celebration for which I'm very grateful indeed I know the one yeah

15:45Mark Langdon:good for Dembele as well I didn't realize he'd never scored a World Cup and to To be honest, he didn't have the greatest of games either. I was actually, I was looking at my notes, trying to remember what happened two days ago before talking to you. And I could see Dembele invisible, awkward, not really involved. Because to be absolutely honest, he doesn't have the same role with his team as he has with PSG. and because of that, I think in a way it doesn't feel as at ease as it should be and as it could be. But yeah, so he broke his stock. And for Kélian, I mean, you have to remind people of the numbers which are absolutely phenomenal.

16:32So that was his 100th gap for France. 59 goals, 60 goals now for France. 60 goals, yeah. 60 goals, 52 goals in 53 games, and 12 goals in the last 12 games for France as well. I mean, the numbers are absolutely prodigious. But it was just not the numbers which were really impressive. The first finish was magnificent. The second one was a beautiful present from his friend Dembele with a lovely little ribbon around it, blue, white and red. And you just got to push the ball in there. As if almost, yes, you know, you were talking about Messi, almost as if Dembele was thinking, you know what, it would be nice if you won the golden boot again this time.

17:24You wonder how many goals these guys are going to score in the tournament. I mean, the fact that we've got an extra round now as well. So let's get ready for more records to be beaten throughout the tournament.

17:35Mark Langdon:Before you go, Philippe, you wanted a word on Eric Roy, former footballer manager who passed away a few days ago. We remember that Eric Roy, I mean, obviously Sunderland fans will remember him as a, obviously I'm as a player there and a much loved player there. But I think most of us will remember Eric Roy for the absolutely amazing journey. I don't use this word very often. I don't like it. But in this case, it is perfectly justified with Stade Brestois and a team with very little money which he saved from relegation which he brought into the Champions League and which then managed to qualify for the knockout rounds of the Champions League and what we discovered I think those who didn't know him personally is that Roy who just died when he was at the age of 58 that's no age had actually been suffering from terminal cancer at the time when he was leading that Brest team throughout Europe.

18:41And I have to say that I had flashbacks of him on the touchline encouraging his team and the way that he had this communion, this extraordinary communion with the supporters of Stade Brest. I was thinking, what a guy, what a man, what a wonderful football man he was what a wonderful man full stop and he's broken a few hearts I must say lately but before that he made them feel very very very big indeed and so goodbye Eric and thank you for everything

19:17Mark Langdon:Wonderful words Philippe you always articulate these things incredibly well so thanks for your time my friends Philippe Eau Claire there our best wishes of course to the friends and family of Eric Watt incredible courage and perfectly spoken about by Philippe. Back to this game, Alex. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Mbappe will beat Messi to the record. Yeah, I could easily see that happening with the way this France team is playing. I think that this race, not just for the golden boot within this tournament, but the overall scoring lead all time for the Men's World Cup is going to be a storyline that continues to develop.

19:51And I think it's amazing. I mean, like Mbappe's goal scoring record in World Cups is just absolutely absurd. I believe he had, what was it, four in his first one? and then eight in 22. And he looks like he's well on his way.

20:04Mark Langdon:And actually also, and Philippe alluded to it, how many goals you might need to win the Golden Boot in this competition. It's going to be ridiculous. And by the way, we have Harry Kane playing later today. So it'll be, listen, you know, just speaking from, obviously, like an American media perspective, we love a scoring race. Yeah. And this is going to be the kind of thing that really captures the public's attention. You know, I don't know if we've mentioned this on the pod yet but but a lot of the courage over here is quite you know individual player led yeah that is that is how a lot of americans generally get into soccer and not sports in general it's not it's not it's not just a soccer thing like the nb this is the big thing that everybody's talking about with the nba right now and everybody's changing teams and you follow you're a lebron fan instead of a lakers fan and so on got it that's that is definitely like happening and has been happening with soccer with americans for a long time so that's why something like this goal scoring race is going to be I think it's a big deal probably no matter where you go but it's an especially big deal here I mean his first goal is beautiful yeah it was a real sledgehammer of a shot left foot from outside the box and Ahmed Basil in the Iraq goal didn't get near it Joe Hart on the BBC's coverage because they had quite a long time to offer they need to get some cricketers in, they know what they're doing with these he reckons there's something odd about the ball and he said that Edward Mendy Zidane the Algerian goalkeeper Pickford and now Basil have all been caught out by similar types of shot where the ball doesn't spin in the air and it seems to fizz towards them more quickly than they're expecting so he wasn't having a go at the Iraq goalkeeper who's just saying he reckons there's something funky about this particular World Cup football that shots above shoulder height that don't spin in the air are difficult to deal with.

22:00Mark Langdon:So it's the opposite of the Jabalani did go everywhere. Now this is called, I know what it's called, the Trionda is staying still. Yeah, it made sense to me. I'm probably not explaining it very well. But yeah, it did seem to make sense. It did feel like one of the first tournaments where it didn't talk about the ball before it started actually. And Mark Schwartzer on UK radio, the other day was making a similar point about the fact that he thinks it's difficult for goalkeepers. I mean, I don't know if there is a union for keepers and they're kind of just sticking with it. We saw Simon Mignolet queuing to get into a nightclub or a barra yesterday.

22:43We should have asked.

22:44Mark Langdon:It took me long enough I was like, that looks a bit like Simon Mignolet but I'm not sure if it is Simon Mignolet and then the moment had gone. And also it's rude to go up to someone and say I think you're Simon Minionet but I'm not sure could you put this full Sunderland kit on and then I'll have a better idea to see if you are but yeah maybe if he's still queuing we can ask him any other strong thoughts on this game Mark? no not really I went for lunch during the first half and watched the first half in a diner then came back and went to bed while they had the rain delay so it was useful for me if not for Philippe I suppose the one thing was the Dembele goal because he's somebody that hasn't done it at international level and there was criticism of him even in the opening game, I think in terms of the creativity now, Elise is the one that is kind of seen as the hope there and Dembele is never going to score as many goals for the national team as Kylian Mbappe so it's like, where does he fit into this team and how does Deschamps get all of the players kind of feeling like they're special and And Dembele's goal, I think, will just make him feel slightly better.

23:54And it was also an important goal. We'll get on to the Norway match later on. But it does mean that 3-0 win does mean that they're top of the group going into the Norway game, which means a draw in the final round will see them finish top of the group. And I don't think you want to finish second in this group because it looks like being Ivory Coast quite early on, which would be a difficult enough last 32 game. And then it could be, you know, Brazil. Is that because Brazil, England? And England. So I think you do want to win the group, yeah.

24:26Mark Langdon:Okay. Yeah, well, let's get to that. I will just sound the getting ahead of ourselves. Well, absolutely, yeah. Let this England get knocked out in the last day. Let's beat Ghana first, lads. Come on, focus. So, as you say, France are top on six. Same as Norway, who have six. That late goal for Senegal changed those. Norway were top of the group until that Ismail Assar goal in injury time. Senegal, they both have 0, but I guess a big win for one of those in the last two could feasibly, I mean a really big win, could get them into one of those third place games. So Norway 3, Senegal 2, and on paper was the most interesting game, and probably the most interesting game on the pitch, Pat.

25:05I think so, yeah. I certainly enjoyed it. I think Senegal were a little bit lucky not to be out of it by half-time, because they went in at the break only 1-0 down to that Peterson goal after he took advantage of an awful clearance from Koolabally to fire Norway into the lead. And then Martin Odegaard missed a hatful of chances and Erling Haaland missed a... He pounced on an Edouard Mendy blunder that you would expect him to score 99 times out of 100 and this was the one he didn't. I think he snatched at the opportunity where he had plenty of time to take another shot or touch and pass it into an empty leg.