Messi’s record, Mbappé’s magic and Haaland’s big splash: World Cup Daily

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0:52Hi, PodFans. Max here. Barry's here, too. Hello. Football Weekly is supported by Hotels.com. Now, Barry, question, when you're booking a hotel, do you use Hotels.com? Actually, you're probably just going to say, I don't know. Producer Joel does it. I don't know. Producer Joel does it. Well, I think you should give it a try for yourself. Obviously, it's a massive summer of soccer and loads of our listeners will be travelling to watch the tournament and needing to book somewhere great to stay. So it's good to know that when you're a Hotels.com member, you can save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels.

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1:56Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Kylian Mbappe scores two, Erling Haaland matches him and Lionel Messi says, I might be 38, but I'll show you guys. A hat-trick, the joint top scorer in World Cup history. He even made a rebound from five yards look beautiful. But who's better, Messi or Ronaldo? Not today, Cristiano. Mbappe had led the day. France were brilliant in the second half. His supporting cast, pretty impressive. Elise, Barcola and Rabiot is Rabiot is actually quite good. Then Erling Haaland got able support from his teammates and the Iraqis too. England finally get their World Cup underway tomorrow, so we'll look ahead to that.

2:28There's some hobbit, some apple and some sourdough to discuss. We'll answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today in the studio with me in Los Angeles, Barry Glenn Denning. Hello. Hello, Max. Hello, Ben Fisher. Hey, Max. And over in Dallas, ahead of England versus Croatia, Lars Siverton. Hey, Lars.

2:45Lars Sivertsen:Howdy. Howdy, indeed. Root and toot and all that. We're recording before Jordan Austria, so we'll discuss that tomorrow. Let's start with Group J. Argentina 3 Algeria 0 and Bazz after Mbappe and then Haaland for Messi to come out and score a hat-trick he's 38 he's 39 next week it is ridiculous well for me and indeed you Max 39 is still quite sprightly that is true I take your point I believe unless I'm very much mistaken as he took the field today Leo Messi became the first man to take to the field and play in six World Cups and I can only imagine that due to the vagaries of the fixture generator Cristiano Ronaldo will join him tomorrow and I'd say he's very happy about being the second male footballer to play in six World Cups but what a way to mark the occasion it was also his 200th international appearance for Argentina and he scored a hat-trick had a goal disallowed as well for good measure and went off with 10 minutes to go.

3:57I quite fancied him to get another one or two and they were all really good goals. I think the first was my favourite. That pass fizzed to him by Rodrigo de Paul at incredible speed and he just controlled it instantly. Trapped the ball dead, turned, advanced a little and shot. I think Luka Zidane should, he got both sets of fingertips to it, probably should have kept it out, but he didn't. And I'm kind of glad he didn't because it was such a great goal. Yeah. I guess, Lars, you've probably watched more MLS than anyone else here. And I don't know what I was expecting from Messi. You know, I know Messi is good, right?

4:39I'm aware of that. But I wonder if I was expecting, I wasn't necessarily expecting him to be this good.

4:44Lars Sivertsen:Yeah, he is preposterous. I mean, he turns 39 in about a week, is it? but he's playing he's staying healthy I mean he started something like 14 out of 15 games for Miami this season he's still around and he's so extremely clinical and I think that's the most devastating thing it's like you have this guy who has been doing this year in year out he never stops he doesn't seem to ever get injured he doesn't seem to ever have a dip in form there doesn't seem to ever be any problems outside the pitch that has been on. He just does the thing. And you get into the situation now where he has the ball at the edge of the box.

5:25Lars Sivertsen:Unbelievable pass from Rodrigo de Paul, like you said, like unbelievable. But like when he gets to the edge of the box, you just kind of know he's going to put it in the top corner. Like you're not surprised at all because that's just what he does. And we say we run out of superlatives. We ran out of superlatives 15 years ago. Like it's been a really big problem for the podcasting fraternity. there's absolutely nothing new to say about him you're just gonna have to update the numbers and just marvel at the fact that this man just never goes away it's ridiculous but i just think yeah the only vaguely intelligent thing perhaps maybe i'm stretching it here that i feel like i can add is that i do think this tournament sets up particularly well for him one thing is that he's played here for a little while so traveling around which i think might be a shock to some player system he'll be very familiar with of course they fly about a lot in nls the various sort of humidity of certain venues the altitude you might run into some places all this sort of stuff that we freak out about ahead of the tournament he'll have you know been a part of already and i also think if this is because of his age you say okay he can't really press and he can't really do all the stuff that the tactics people freak out about a striker not being able to to do myself included sometimes but i don't think it'll be that kind of tournament i don't Don't think anyone's going to press all summer.

6:42Lars Sivertsen:No one's got the legs for that. So it's going to be a tournament of moments. And those moments, God, he still has them. He has so many of them. Yeah. And Ben, actually, in the flat, we were watching it together. And the second goal, which is sort of the least impressive of the goals, in a way, that was the one that you just looked at and you thought, he has so much time. Like, so many strikers run onto that and blast it and probably score. but just the way he just he makes that look beautiful Yeah on the kind of face of it it looked really simple but I think that's the art of Messi right it was just a sumptuous finish just guided it in as you say with so much confidence I mean he's obviously done it so many times but I think with Messi the thing that struck me today watching him was that speed of thought and the fact that for the last goal where he reacts quickest he expects the you know the rebound he expects it to happen and I think I don't know with him as players get older you maybe sometimes think are they going to slow down or especially with him is he going to be more on the periphery but he was front and centre he's got you know hat-trick and disallowed goal in the opening game so yeah what a start to the tournament for him obviously level with Miroslav closer now in terms of most goals ever most goals at the World Cup yeah I mean I was trying to feel like we needed to say some more about Messi.

8:04Do you know what I mean, Barry? You seem to need to. He has played against Zinedine Zidane and now his son. He played at El Clasico in 05. I think that was the last time he played against Zidane. Not many people have played against a father and son, apart from sort of weird Sunday leagues. I have no more questions about Messi, Barry. I should have some, but I can't think of anything to add that we haven't had. I think we've established over the years that he's a pretty good player. I think you're probably right. What I would say is that he he's got off to a flyer hat trick in his first game Mbappe scored two Erling Haaland scored two I just know Harry Kane and Cristiano Ronaldo will be watching those games today and going right I need I need to score tomorrow at least once Did that game make you think Argentina are in a better place Lars than than perhaps you did before the tournament or maybe you had them I'd heard people sort of writing Argentina off and having watched that and it's hard to gauge I think Algeria are not a bad football team but where do you have them after seeing one performance in the interest of like a fair and

9:05Lars Sivertsen:transparent and open uh podcasting i feel like i need to look up where i had them ah i see i had them losing to portugal in the quarterfinals i do quite like them for a few reasons which is again maybe i harp on about the conditions too much but i think the conditions are going to matter i don't think no one's going to gag and press their way to the final here i just don't think it can be done Whereas if I look at Argentina, they have a lot of smart footballers there. I think tactically clever, technically well-schooled players who know when to raise the tempo, when to lower the tempo, players who can control things.

9:40Lars Sivertsen:That midfield, there's a lot of football IQ there, I think. And I think that really suits the situation and the circumstances. I think if they can get, it's an obvious thing to say, but if they can keep getting these magical moments out of Messi up front, there's a lot of good stuff in that midfield as the defense they've got the maddest defense in the tournament surely like christian romero and lissandro martinez at the back and emmy martinez behind them that's just like there's a lot of lunacy per player there but they're also very good like if they can all avoid getting sent off or ideally not get sent off all at the same time because that'd be very bad but you know if you can keep them going and keep them vaguely sane that's also very good so i think there's a lot to like about this argentina team yeah meanwhile for Algeria, they started okay, you know, they had that, their disallowed goal was tighter than Argentina's and maybe that makes a difference, I don't know, but they got blown away in the end, I think.

10:33I thought they more than held their own in the first half, and the only difference was the Messi cheat code that Argentina had, and second half, they were completely dominated. I don't think they disgraced themselves, but you know, Messi is a cheat called and Argentina have them. Sure. And they have Austria and Jordan to play. So, you know, they still could quite easily get through to the last 32. That game is happening after we finish recording. So we'll talk about that tomorrow. That'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do France-Senegal, beginning with a nice chat with Filippo Clare.

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12:01hi pod fans max here barry's here too hello football weekly is supported by hotels.com now barry question when you're booking a hotel do you use hotels.com actually you're probably just going to say i don't know producer joel does it i don't know producer joel does it well i think you should give it a try for yourself. Obviously, it's a massive summer of soccer and loads of our listeners will be travelling to watch the tournament and needing to book somewhere great to stay. So it's good to know that when you're a Hotels.com member, you can save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels. Plus, you earn rewards on every stay.

12:30So each trip you take helps pay for your future trips. Just use those rewards like cash. And importantly, there are never any blackout dates. What's a blackout date? Well, it's a date where you can't use travel rewards. Frustratingly, usually on or around major holidays or other peak travel periods. But there are no blackout dates with Hotels.com rewards. Superb. Yes. So next time you're booking somewhere to stay, just book it at Hotels.com. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

13:06Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So France, three Senegal, one in Group I. Before I chat to the chaps here, I caught up with Philippe Auclair and I greeted him in French. Bonjour, ça va, Philippe Auclair. Bonjour, ça va, Max Rochton. What is the French for hurling some tasses d 'outes around the dressing room at halftime because that second half was something else?

13:31Philippe Auclair:Well, yes, it was rather different, wasn't it? and yeah quite a quite a change of scenery and uh i think i i think probably didier deschamps went to the mirror looked at himself and said what did you do wrong didier and didier answered you're playing the best player in the world in the wrong position so if you put him in the right position which is in the middle things will change and lo and behold you put the best player in the world at the moment uh not the guy who scored the goals but the guy who made them and who made France stick and then suddenly it's a completely different proposal and Senegal just couldn't live with with Michael Lodice and and Kylian Mbappe who is tonight has now holds the record for the most goals scored by a Frenchman for the national team and I wish somebody had written a book about but him that I could refer to to explain how he got there.

14:35Philippe Auclair:But there you go. Full confession time now. About half time, I had a few things in the script saying Mbappe doesn't press. He's a bit of a luxury player. Would you be better if you just put Mateta up there? And then, well, I mean, as you say, the pass from Alise. I mean, there was a pass from Alise to Mbappe which almost made it. And then there was the goal. And then there was the way that Mbappe, you know, Senegal score. and you think, okay, this could be an interesting three minutes and then Mbappe goes, all right. And I think Mbappe proved today that he is quite good at football. He's decent.

15:10Philippe Auclair:I still think he's not the centre forward and I still think he would be more effective if he played on the left and that the team would work better if he played from the left. But this was a typical Mbappe game because he had loads of half chances and even you would call three-quarter chances, which he didn't quite put through. And his first touch was a bit heavy sometimes. He looked a little bit, not uninterested, but a little bit petulant at times. And then suddenly something switches on. And then he's a different player. And it's a Kylian Mbappe who is now France's record goal scorer with 58 goals.

15:52Philippe Auclair:That's rather a lot. He's only 27 years of age. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. but it shouldn't make us forget that France's first half was apt to quote Alan Hansen was diabolical it was really awful it had no rhythm no pattern no fluidity no beat nothing and to be honest France was very very lucky to come off the pitch at half time with the score you know at 0-0 parity score because Senegal was the better team better organised and more dangerous but they don't have an Olysee, a Barcola a Mbappé Dembélé was very quiet today which is not the first time he's been with the French national team but again is he playing in the right position with that particular set up I'm not too sure about that and it also shows that Deschamps has got this amazing bench that he can count on because when you can ask bringing on Cherki with 5 minutes left, unbelievable Yeah, that's all right.

16:56And Barcola, yeah, of course.

16:57Philippe Auclair:Yeah, you bring in Barcola and you bring in Cherokee, so that's okay. And there were a couple of other guys who were there, but it's not perfect by any means. But I think I was actually dreading that game, Max, because I thought that it could be, I thought the 90 minutes or nearly 100 minutes would be as tough as the first 45 were. That's what I was expecting. but then again pure quality spoke and paid off and France are basically already in the you know they're in the knockout stages I mean a 3-1 victory is pretty much insurance that whatever happens against Norway which is going to be an interesting game but Senegal though it's a tough one to take I have to say Telly who was good Philippe Tell me And actually I thought it was quite good in the first half you made a disagreement with Rabiot he was for me in the first half he was Francis' best player that pass for Bacolus that was we were talking with some friends about it and said that was almost worthy of Antoine Griezmann which is you know in my book that's yeah it's stratospheric in terms of compliment but he was this was the good Rabiot that we saw the very, very good rapier that we saw today.

18:21Philippe Auclair:And in fact, he was France's best player in midfield by some distance. And he created, he intercepted a few balls. The decisions he took were most of the time the good ones. Scrapped a few balls in midfield as well. So no, he was excellent. And there will be, I mean, there were others. I think Teo Hernandez had a decent game. Desiree Dewey was a little bit underwhelming, really had loads of problems on his flank in the first half in particular, defending as well as attacking. But all in all, I think Deschamps would be more than delighted with that. In the end, the result is great. No injuries.

19:03Philippe Auclair:We don't think so. And he's found, well, he now knows, he should have known before, where to play what I keep saying is the best attacking player in the world at the moment and has been throughout the season with Michael Ollise and he's going to be this World Cup star I think I mean it's just I mean what can you say the elegance the efficiency that turn yeah I know oh god it makes me you know it makes my hair stand on end it's like this kind of player who actually makes you love football makes you almost forget about Gianni Infantino and Donald Trump and all the horrible things which have been happening all over America for the past, well, for quite a while now, but before the World Cup even started.

19:57Philippe Auclair:And yeah, that was, yeah, that was a decent second half, I would say. We're getting you on for a full episode soon, so we will ready the lawyers for then. But for the time being, à bientôt, Philippe. Merci beaucoup, mon petit lapin. Au revoir. Philippe Eau Claire there I mean it's worth spending a bit more time on that second half because the difference in performance from the first to the second was something else Yes I'm glad you pointed out to the listeners that you greeted Philippe in French because they might not have guessed otherwise Thank you Barry Yeah the difference between I mean Philippe has pretty much covered everything as far as I'm concerned but the difference between first half France who were desperate, awful and second half France were chalk cheese or chalk fromage.

20:44Yes. You don't know the French for chalk? No. Le chalk. I've no idea. And Didier Duchamp clearly gave them an absolute rollicking at halftime. And it's good to see people are occasionally concerned who runs that dressing room. Well, I think in the second half we saw who the boss is there, certainly. It was a brilliant performance. Michael Alise was brilliant Kylian Mbappe was brilliant Adrian Rabiot that pass for Barca's goal was brilliant I'm just repeating what Philippe said so I might as well stop talking Actually I did love Ben Mbappe's second so just at that moment where you were like oh hello Senegal could get something here and then just that turn and hit it felt very Mexico 86 to me and he didn't even look at the goal he knew where it was going again low finish sort of diagonal cross goal but again, Elise was the architect, wasn't he?

21:39And I was just thinking earlier because obviously Elise being born in London, I think he grew up in White City and Mbappé's celebration, the flute, that was from James Corden or his time with James Corden. So it was kind of a bit of a London link to Mbappé's first goal, as it were, the artistry behind them. Is that right? You're grimacing, Barry. I am grimacing, Max. That's okay. People like some presenters and don't like others. what did you make of senegal in this game last because they did have chances didn't they you know jackson hits the post it bounces off mania that could go in sar has that chance just before half time if they take the lead is this game different jackson had a brilliant volley that

22:21Lars Sivertsen:went in yeah and i thought oh my days it's it's it's a jackson incredible finish that hits the net now like this is okay it was offside clearly and i thought he was remarkably calm about that I think for a guy who has missed as many chances as he has in his life, when he finally hits the sweetest volley against France in the World Cup, I think you're entitled to lose your shit a little bit if that gets given as offside. But he was remarkably calm. I wonder still how much the first half was France just being bad and how much of it was France taking it easy a little bit. Because I do think this French team has come here thinking we're going to be here for seven, eight games.

23:01Lars Sivertsen:so we're not going to burn off a ton of powder in the first 45 against Senegal. But whatever they were trying to do, they ended up not doing much of anything and for sure Senegal had chances. And from a Norwegian perspective, I was watching this going, I don't love this. These are quite tasty. We knew this already, but I have anxieties about facing Senegal for sure. But you are top of the group, Lars, aren't you? After beating Iraq 4-1, how was it for you? I feel so incredibly relieved, Max. That's the only thing I can really move on occasion just by seeing the players and the anthem and everything.

23:37Lars Sivertsen:It's been 28 years. It's been 10 ,227 days, I think, since the last time we played a game at the World Cup. It's been a while. And it's strange for me because I've ended up sort of scraping a living doing this sort of thing. And I've watched all these tournaments and I've done podcasts and written things. but in my entire adult life I've never like actually had proper skin in the game and I do have a greater sense of understanding for why you all completely lose your minds about England and stuff like this than I maybe had previously in the same way that like yeah no it's I understand it much more now to the point where I found it really hard to like provide any analysis or forecast about this game and advance in any sort of rational way because yes clearly we are quite a lot better than Iraq but we've had like so far the story of the tournament there's been so many upsets you know there's been Qatar nicking something against Switzerland there's been Cape Verde holding Spain there's been Saudis stopping Uruguay like the upsets have have been coming and as the match drew near I became increasingly convinced and terrified that the upsets would come for us as well and then when we played not well in the first half I thought Iraq Iraq should get credit Iraq had really done their homework I felt I got the sense that they picked their moments in terms of pressing and they really targeted those of our players who are not super comfortable on the ball they really like made us uncomfortable and we couldn't play the way we really want to for for a lot for certainly for the certainly for the first quarter when we had the drinks break that's definitely not an ad break and we got into the second quarter of the game we obviously scored a very very good goal a nicely worked move and that settled everyone down a little bit but then they equalize and then yeah when the equalizer comes i'm thinking yeah we're the swiss now we are gonna or we are the spain or we are we are uruguay whoever i thought the upset was coming and i'm just really relieved that we got through it even though it was a scruffy performance that probably won't have convinced anyone except for we know that erling holland is a beast his is right on it physically he's in great shape at the moment he's so hungry and um that that was really the big difference.

25:49You can plug your book like Philippe plugged his book about Mbappe if you want to at this day. I mean, it's really great, Barry, for Haaland to get off the mark of his first World Cup. I think most of our listeners know about it, but I have written a book on Ali Nolan.

26:01Lars Sivertsen:You can look it up. It's quite good. Check it out. You'll learn all about why he's that good if you didn't know already. What did you make of this, Baz? Norway weren't good for the first... Well, they weren't good until they scored, basically. And it's no great surprise that Haaland got off the mark. If Norway go deep into the competition, we know it's the semi-final and final in which he'll fail to score. But hopefully in a game against England where Harry Kane also fails to score. You'll be dancing in the streets. Everything proved right. These flat track bullies together. His goals, I mean, the first was a bog standard slid the ball home from a really good low cross at the power post.

26:44and the second one was gifted to him by the keeper dawdling over a back pass. I loved how long he took. Because it was like, you can see the ball coming to him and you're like, I think you really need to go to the ball, mate. And he's just waiting and waiting. You can almost hear the Jaws music. Exactly. I can go. So his goals were probably the two worst, you know, worst in inverted commas of the game. I thought the Iraq, the goal they scored equalised. Alamari. Alamari. What a brilliant header that was. Eric Thorsford's son, I thought he'd scored Norway's fourth. One for the dads there. Eric Thorsford, obviously, was a Spurs goalkeeper, famously made a nightmare debut for Spurs.

27:30But his son came on as a sub for Norway. And I thought he'd scored their fourth with a header from about three inches out. But apparently it was an own goal. Possibly. So, anyway. Actually, their third was an amazing towering. I mean like the definition that was a great great header definition of a towering header any other strong thoughts on this game? In terms of Iraq a bit of a moment of history with Zidane Iqbal coming on formerly of Manchester United believe he becomes the first player of Pakistani heritage to play at World Cup and he actually has the Pakistan flag on one boot and the Iraqi flag on the other so they were probably never expected to get a result as Lars was saying there's always that trepidation beforehand will Norway come unstuck but a moment for Iraq despite defeat

28:11Lars Sivertsen:So it's funny you mention Christian Tolstoy, because actually this was a historic game. You had, I believe for the first time in World Cup history, you had three sons of fathers who had also played in the World Cup play for the same team. Christian Tolstoy, but also Alex Soloth, his father played in 94 in that very memorable game against Ireland, I believe. And of course, Arling Haaland's father also played in World Cup 94. So we had three players whose dads also played in the World Cup. and I want to just note as well on Ollejo Estegar I'm so incredibly happy for him getting a goal because he's lost his place he's someone who cares a lot he wears his heart on his sleeve but it was him who made a terrible mistake against Scotland in the Euro qualifying campaign which basically consigned us to not going to the Euros and I think it's been eating at him a little bit I suspect and so for him to be back in the frame and scoring a goal I think that was a wonderful moment Good stuff Alright that'll do for part 2 Part 3 we'll look ahead to tomorrow's games which include England against Croatia.