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23:37Like I've never really seen a team put themselves so far clear in all of those metrics. And their issues, it's basic to say, but they had a goalkeeper in Solbrin who his shot stopping left a lot to be desired, probably not a top level championship keeper. And their finishing was horrendous. And that kind of fell to various different players. And it meant that even though they were dominant between both boxes, they were conceding loads of the chances they gave up and they weren't scoring all the chances they created. That meant their results weren't great. And a fair few of their signings this summer, I struggled to really work out how they fit into Helberg's very high-intensity, risk-taking style of football.

24:15But in Raleigh Vitek in goal, who was at Bristol City last season, was one of the best shot-stoppers in the league. They brought in a keeper who is far superior to Bryn. And with Will Lanxer, who scored 11 goals for the club ice sport Oxford, who basically didn't create a single chance last season for the most part, he scored 11 goals and is a proper goal scorer and a very very clinical striker it seems basic but my theory is if Helberg especially with the pre-season under his belt can turn Borough into a team who are again so dominant between both boxes but now they've got a keeper who makes saves and they've got a striker who puts chances away then they're going to be very hard to live with now there are other squads in the championship West Ham being one Wolves being another who have a ridiculous amount of quality within their within their squads but there are so many unknowns when it comes to teams getting relegated out of the Premier League like with Wolves they've got a new manager called Cesar Peixoto who was at Gil Vicente last season like we just don't know the quality or what side of football we're going to play we'll learn a hell of a lot about him in the first 20 minutes tomorrow night against Blackburn with West Ham I have serious concerns as we get on to about Nuno's kind of suitability to this role so in Borough it feels like the the most kind of solid candidate where they've shown they can do it last season they've made the changes necessary and I'll be amazed if they don't kick on.

25:28Seb Hutchinson:To add to the Burroughs situation because I covered them in the League Cup first round and having covered them actually a fair few times last season weirdly enough I think what essentially what George is saying about Helberg is he would have had the concern at the back end of the season the way the form dropped off and the way they were beaten in some games and I think of the Coventry game that I also covered as well seeing them firsthand I still saw those vulnerabilities against Wrexham in that game in the fact you think about their back line and you do worry they're going to be in games where they dominate the ball and then they lose it because they're so they're always playing progressive passes so many of their players are asking Luke Ayling to do it Melander who seems comfortable he seems Melander strikes me the sort of player is the center half who when he was younger wanted to be a midfielder desperately and wanted to show what he could do and he is I think the championship's a good place to do that because he's going to get a bit of time on the ball to play those passes but he's going to play a pass at one point that just gives it to the opposition and they're going to break away and there's so many canny managers in the championship so many good managers in the championship I think that teams might take advantage of that again I do worry about Borough if they get in that situation where that's realized and they go on a dodgy run he'll be under pressure as the manager and the money they spent will be but I also think they've tried to address that certainly in the midfield certainly up front in the way that can they win games quicker can they get themselves in dominant positions in games quicker and see them out um their transfer business is fantastic help buy the Rogers money and help buy the Hackney sale um but how they fill that Hackney hole is a tricky thing and how they defensively is where I worry about them with the Hackney replacement as well as Bearhalter who people would have seen playing for USA in the World Cup.

27:16I mean, to sell Hackney for£20 or£1 million and bring in Berhalter for a reported million pounds seems like very good business to me. But I have seen a lot of people who know him well saying him and Aidan Morris will be their starting midfield to our best mates, which is quite fun. They're played together through youth football, but they're both incredibly energetic, out of possession as well as in possession. And that's what, you know, it's what Helberg wants. But also, do you want two centre midfielders who are basically running around like crazy people for a whole game or does that open gaps in itself too like it's we'll see and I'm so intrigued to see them to start the season but this is just the case where I believe I wouldn't be surprised if when we're back here in three years time me and Ali doing a an EFL season preview we're talking about Kim Helberg as the Manchester City manager or the Barcelona manager that you know that's how high esteem I rate him as a coach and normally that in the championship as we've seen in recent years with Bielsa with Kompany with Maresca you know look where these guys have either come from or got on to do like elite managers tend to do well in this at this level

28:19George Elek:yeah then you're non-moving pivot maybe if I get my hips right I spent two minutes watching a compilation of your every touch in a small sided game in the States in summer I've had some I've had some content lows in my time but that really actually root and branch change that's what that you know that's what I had to do after that I love the comments. People notice me applauding the pass before I received the ball. This is vintage. Didn't give the ball away. I thought that was just a twitch, to be honest. West Ham probably need a mention in that they are really short. They're heavily favoured to win the league with the bookmakers.

28:53They were the best of the three relegated teams last season. In fact, their 39 points, I think I'm right in saying, would have been enough to survive in the last 15 seasons in the Premier League. so they got a bit unlucky on that front. Nuno is still the manager and Jared Bowen is staying which is kind of the headline stuff really and Bowen should be the best player in the league. You know, he's an absolutely magnificent player so it seems obvious that they would be kind of the favourites. I think we feel like, and the window is still open for another three weeks but we do feel like there is an awful lot to do still at West Ham.

29:27They've signed Manor Solomon who should be pretty good and Joel Veltman, the 34-year-old, right back on a free. And otherwise, it still feels like they're sorting out who needs to leave rather than who they're bringing in. And clearly we know because of their finances, they've done a great job of selling Fernandes and Crescensio Somerville and others. They've probably raised£150 million. But the financial situation at West Ham, as I understand it, is still pretty fragile. They can't afford to spend much more time outside of the Premier League. I think it's probably fair to say. So they have had some changes off the field as well, I should say, and hopefully a brave new era on that front.

30:05But I think we just feel like it's actually not a great squad in its totality, even though it's got a couple of eye-catching players. So George and I both think Wolves seem better set to challenge straight away with the squad that they have, and potentially the style of play that their manager will look to implement might be more appropriate for being a dominant championship team. But yeah, Norwich, the other one I want to mention. George is very, very hot on Borough. I think Norwich could challenge towards the top. I think Coventry last season, Lampard had had an amazing half season the year before and taken them up from the bottom half where they should never have been on this great run, losing in the playoffs.

30:41I think there's some similarities with what Philippe Clement did with Norwich last season. They had nine points after 16 games when he came in and they'd lost their first seven home league games, which is, I think, unprecedented. And he turned things around brilliantly. You know, the tactics may be not quite as sexy as Kim Helberg. The underlying numbers, not quite as good as Burra. But I think still, you know, absolutely clear that he had a big impact on the team. And off the pitch, seems like he's really got incredible buy-in off the field. And they've got a really solid squad, a lot of young players that I think will develop and kind of kick on again this season.

31:16So Norwich probably the ones, along with Burra, from last year's championship that we think could easily challenge at the top, depending on the strength of those relegated teams.

31:25George Elek:Seb how do you see the situation at Southampton obviously they've got a points deduction but Tundra Echard is still there and clearly there's a charge overhanging but by all accounts you know everyone is with him now

31:41Seb Hutchinson:well they have to be because the season's about to start I mean it'd be straight I think you have to get behind a manager despite what the situation is because the most important thing is the football club and their results so you don't want to be damning the club too much even from within, even if you're covering the club. I think in his situation, it seems, you know, not to get involved in cases, but it seems inevitable in a way that he's going to get a ban of some sort. So when that comes, how do they deal with that? That's also about the finances of the club as well. What are they prepared to do?

32:15Seb Hutchinson:Because is there a case there to get involved in his contract? If he is suspended, how does that then work with them having to get a replacement in? If he is suspended, can he just spy on the team?

32:29George Elek:Well, he's free to spy, you mean? Yeah. Well, you know, he just goes around the back. He's already big. Was it double jeopardy? No, I can't remember. So I was desperate not to do flippant spy-based gags because I know everybody, you know, they're old hat now. I'm trying to be new and, you know, relevant. Well, it was the Middlesbrough losing twice in the playoffs,

32:44Seb Hutchinson:which always makes me giggle. But yeah, I think they're late surge. But they're in that situation. when you have the three teams that drop down in West Ham, Wolves and Burnley, because Southampton didn't go up last season, it creates this bottleneck all of a sudden, which is what I think football fans in general quite like. One, it gives, you think one of these sides is going to panic perhaps. One of these sides might be overloaded with wages that they can't deal with. That probably explains West Ham's situation. They're probably just trying to clear the books a bit and think we have enough anyway to get over the line.

33:17Seb Hutchinson:and then they'll see if halfway through the season they're mid-table, they might panic and then push it out. And that will open the doors for the likes of Wrexham, in this particular case, maybe Birmingham City, maybe even, which would be, in my opinion, one of the great stories of all time if Lincoln City could be up towards that playoff situation. I mean, that would be quite extraordinary. That's what creates something interesting. I think Ipswich going up stopped that a little bit, but Southampton are now in that situation. how long will they be in the championship for now, seeing these clubs go down?

33:48Seb Hutchinson:And what about the clubs? If one of the three promoted sides of the Premier League does stay up, we could be in that situation again. If we were to lose a side, perhaps, I'm going big here, Newcastle, Palace, Fulham, Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford are bringing loads of teams into this so people don't think I'm backing it. Three well-run B clubs. Yes, exactly. If we were to lose one of them from the Premier League, chaos. Seb touched on it, I'm intrigued to see how Lincoln will get on. they won League One last season with 103 points, which would have been a record in modern times had Birmingham not won it with 111 the season before.

34:25And yet, despite their dominance and despite the fact they were such a great team, they're still being written off based on size of club, I guess, rather than the quality they showed. I mean, they have lost their manager, Michael Skibala, who's moved on to Bristol City. His two assistants were appointed shortly after that decision was made. Effectively, the club saying, he isn't the reason for our success. We are just a well-run club and he's a cog in that machine. So it'll be interesting how they got on there. But they also lost maybe their best player in the second half of last season too in Jack Moylan, who's gone to the team that finished second in Cardiff City.

34:55They've got a very robust style of play, which I think will be well-suited to moving up into the championship because they aren't a team that necessarily need the ball. They're happy to sit off and attack in a very direct way where they really try and exploit the space that's left them behind defences. And we see clubs who come up from League One into the Championship, they tend to go okay in their first season. Often, gravity sucks them back into League One the season after. But I think Lincoln could really start well, albeit a pretty tough assignment first up playing against Middlesbrough. Also really intrigued to see Al-Cardiff get on under Brian Barry Murphy, another manager who wouldn't surprise me at all if he's got a huge future at the top level.

35:37A very, very different style of football to Lincoln where they get the ball down and play.

35:41Seb Hutchinson:I just wanted to ask the gentleman's opinion on the new playoff situation. I don't know if it's been explained on the pod already, about the additional places in the playoffs, a system that's very similar to what they already use in the National League. And it's created two extra opportunities for sides in the league. Is this all the way through the AFL? No, just the championship.

36:02George Elek:Just the championship. Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay. So it goes down to eighth, does it? Eighth. I mean, I've got to say, Seb, this might just be signs of my movement into middle age, but I hate it.

36:16Seb Hutchinson:Woke nonsense? Is that what you're going to say? Woke nonsense? Well, I wouldn't go that far. But I don't like it. I just don't really see the need for it. It just seems like it's an attempt. It's a contradiction because I love the playoffs, because the playoffs existed as I came into consciousness about football. but I guess from a very kind of base perspective I don't really see why you want to create a league system where you play 46 games and then one of the promotion places goes to a knockout game where you can finish 30 points behind you know the actual idea of the playoffs even though I love the drama is flawed in my opinion but making it even more forgiving bringing in a team in eighth who are basically mid-table it's just move, you know, football going closer and closer towards just an entertainment show rather than an actual competition to reward quality and success.

37:15So no, I don't like, I'm sure I'll get really into the playoffs when they come around and I'll love the extra games. I love the drama and the excitement, but we as football fans have to take a stand somewhere about the way that our game is changing. And I think creating just more drama to make it into a good TV show is where I would draw the line.

37:31George Elek:Adi, can I ask you about who you're worried about in the championship before we move on to League One and League Two? Yeah, we very much inadvertently relegated three teams who are all within about 10 square miles of each other in our 1-24s. That was Bolton Wanderers who came up through the League One playoffs last season. They had a lone called Amario Kozio-Dubri who generated a lot of their attack, who won't be, I don't think, will be back at Bolton this season. We're not really buying what they've been able to do at this moment to kind of build a championship ready squad. As we see it, Stephen Schumacher, very good manager, came up with Plymouth a few years ago and had them sort of 16th midway through his first season at the level before getting poached by Stoke.

38:18So, you know, plenty to believe in, but we're not buying the squad at the moment and the quality they see. Blackburn we had going down as well. Tony Mowbray is their new manager and they're broadly sticking with the same squad that they had last year. It's kind of hard to know exactly how this will go because Mowbray at his best can develop young players really well while playing attacking football and having some success, but results haven't been great in his last few jobs and the just general atmosphere at Rovers is about as bad as any club in the championship just because the ownership, the Venkis and the fans, I mean, that relationship ended about five, ten years ago and it's still just a place with so little positive energy.

38:58And I do think that can have an effect on the team and broadly similar for Preston North End. Now they finished 14th last season, but it was a season of two halves. Good start to the season. And then they only won four of their last 20 in the league. And I'm just concerned that that will be the level at which they start this season because again, they haven't been able to do huge amounts in the transfer market to give Paul Heckingbottom a much better squad. And the fans are not happy. Heckingbottom doesn't seem happy. that he's kind of going into battle without great weapons. So, yeah, nothing to do with the geography of it all, but it's Bolton, Blackburn and PNE that we're pretty worried about.

39:34You've basically relegated the 1950s.

39:36George Elek:How could you? How could you? All right, that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll do League One and League Two.

39:49George Elek:Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So League One then, as you pointed out, Ali, Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey, Tom Cleverley, all managing in League One, which is fun. Seb, who are you looking at? Cambridge aside, of course, who are going to run away with it. Who are you looking out for?

40:07Seb Hutchinson:Bromley, bizarrely. I used to, when I, probably about 10 years ago, I used to work a lot on the National League. And I remember seeing the route, obviously Luton coming from there to go up to the Premier League, essentially. But it's a bit of a different situation in Bromley's case because Luton had already been a club up in the higher echelons of football anyway. They had dropped down and gone back up again. Bromley were talking about a side who were in a good catchment area. We love to use that phrase. And in the modern game, it's probably more important than ever because you were a club looking around and thinking, if you're in that part of the country and you think maybe we can pick up those players who come from Palace perhaps, who even come from Charlton.

40:48Seb Hutchinson:We're looking higher up the league, but then you reach a point where they are now, where they're in League One. And whereas before they might have been trying to pick players from the leagues below them in the National League, they are now looking in that position. Can we attract those players to kick them onto the next level? Any club in this sort of situation that finds themselves now, I look at League One and I always think, this is the point where a club who is, obviously they're punching above their weight, now has a chance to say, do we belong here or not? Are we just going to drop out? Now, I don't know the gents' opinion on Bromley as a particular case and where they see them going.

41:23Seb Hutchinson:But if you're, say, a fan of Cambridge, for example, you see a club like Bromley in your remit and you think, oh no, another one of these. Hopefully they don't push on because they're one of the cases, unlike Salford perhaps, who think, oh well, it's inevitable they're going to surge past us, but they haven't done. You think Bromley, if we see them go, I mean, we're in big trouble here.

41:44George Elek:Yeah, I mean, do you know what, George, I do look at, League One, you know, and I looked at it, you know, Cambridge were there for quite a long time and then went out for a couple of years and come back again or however long we were in League Two. And you just go, blimey, I'm trying to find four teams who are just sort of smaller, you know, traditionally more likely to go down than us. And it's quite hard, actually, now, because just there are big teams in there. Yeah, there are big teams. I mean, and there are some teams who are consistently punching above their weight and staying up. You know, we saw AFC London last season, having come through the League Two playoffs, stay up and they'll be hoping that they can do that again.

42:22But I would also kind of caveat it by saying that there are regular teams who you might perceive as being big teams who do struggle in League One because it is unforgiving. You know, look at last summer. Blackpool were one of the biggest spenders in the whole of League One and spent most of the season staving off relegation until a kind of a late flurry of results to them up into mid-table. like they would have had one of the biggest wage bills in the league and would have gone into the season confident that they'd be able to to to compete for the playoffs so you know as a Cambridge fan I can understand why you're looking wondering who's going to be there Barnes is another one who generally have been a team that have competed at the top end of League One but as they lose players and seemingly a kind of cost cutting they're another who we worry for and fear could have a season struggle it also wouldn't surprise me you know you look at the teams that have come down from the championship.

43:10My team, Oxford, are currently under a registration embargo, can't sign new players, transfer rumours swirling around some of our better players, even though we don't want to lose them because we can't replace them. You've got Sheffield Wednesday, who I think will go well, but Ali fears for, and they've had to basically build a whole new squad from scratch after their takeover. I'm really concerned about Leicester, who I just don't think have a particularly good squad and have loads of holes to fill under Russell Martin, who's starless for them pretty quickly. since that day at Wembley, where ironically his Southampton side put in one of the best backs of the wall performances I think we've seen in the playoffs.

43:46And since then, you know, he's had a Torre time in the Premier League playing out from the back as he likes to do and then a Torre time at Rangers. He really needs this to work. But I look at their squad and even though you've got players of individual quality or at least we know have been good players, like, you know, players existing already there, Oliver Skip, Sethi Mavadidi, they haven't looked good for a while. Players like Connor Chaplin and Wes Burns who dropped down into League One again, who were fantastic players to that level a couple of years ago, again, you're asking them to find some form they haven't shown recently.

44:14So it wouldn't surprise me if League One, you look at it now and it feels quite easy to see a hierarchical order of big team to small team in League One,

44:22George Elek:but it never looks like that in May. Poor Oliver Skip. How quickly you're just, you know, in the Premier League one minute and now you're away to Notts County at half past midday. He was rumoured to be, he was rumoured to be the, and I'm sorry, I said for a transfer rumour, but he was rumoured to be the kind of first on the list for Borough to replace Hayden Hackney. And the kind of quotes from local media is that Borough were quoted£15 million, at which point they said, no, thank you, and moved on to sign the America's starting midfielder

44:51Seb Hutchinson:for a million quid. We're talking about excitement of young players. They're losing young players as well. Yeah. And also rumoured to be losing young players as well. So that hurts because you'd think, oh, this opens an opportunity for some of our talent to come through, but not if you're then having them picked off as well. So horrible situation for listeners.

45:08George Elek:The image I have, Ali, is now that everyone in League One is hopeless, which gives me, you know, it feels very exciting. We could win the league. But who do you have doing well in this division? Weirdly, I think there is a chunk of possibly almost 10 teams who finished kind of 4th to 14th last season, all of whom you can make a case for kicking on. And so I do think there will be, as George said, maybe some surprises when you look at the league table in a few months' time. I mean, Luton Town and Plymouth Argyle were the top two in our 1-24s. And that reflects that both of those two teams came down from the championship and the relegation hangover was a bad one for both.

45:50But they sorted it out. So Jack Wilshire came in as Luton manager and it took him a couple of months trying to sift through the wreckage of a double relegation. But a very good squad of players. and by the end of the season he'd found the right balance and they won eight of their last ten. Argyle were near the relegation zone halfway through the season, threatened with a double relegation of their own with Tom Cleverley seemingly floundering and then they brought in Derek Adams, very experienced EFL manager as director of football. Rather than sacking Cleverley, they brought in more support for him and it clicked and they won 11 of their last 16.

46:25So by the end of the season we saw both of these two teams really strong at the level, even though they kind of ran out of road and didn't even make the playoffs because of their poor first half of the season. And we think that there's every reason for them to kind of broadly pick up where they left off. And then, you know, George is pretty strong on MK Dons coming up and being strong straight away under Paul Ward, very deep pockets and a good squad already. I think Bradford, who made the playoffs last season, having won promotion the season before. So you can have that mobility straight away, use that momentum and keep going.

46:54I think they might stick around in the playoff picture under Graham Alexander. I think Huddersfield Town, if their new first-time manager, Martin Drury, is as talented as a CV that includes Manchester United and Brentford and two spells with Carlos Corboran. If he's any good, they've got the squad to fly. Stockport, Wickham, Oxford, who knows? Blackpool as well. Reading, Orient. It's a really good League One, put it that way. It's a really good League One this season and you should be delighted that Cambridge United are a part of it.

47:24George Elek:I am delighted I'm delighted that you also relegated Peterborough that's excellent news um uh league two then and you have Salford winning the league and it feels to me George that I don't know what the opposite of circling a drain is but that's what Salford do isn't it they're circling the sun that's it and they're circling the sun thank you but um but but one of the constants in life is they never ever do it like ever and it's sort of you sort of think this is ridiculous if you don't follow it too closely you know they've got the financial backing they've got the sort of football heritage of the class of 92 etc but they can just never make it work but you think seven seasons seven seasons at the level now always well bankrolled always near the top in terms of being favorites and fourth last season was their highest finish in seven seasons uh and they sat their manager off the back of it you know it was a it was one of the poorer playoff final displays we've seen which i think may have put pay to karl robinson um but yeah it was interesting as you can imagine we put out one to 24 was all the comments we get are really kind and nice and no one says anything me um but one we got one this morning which made me laugh it was like will you ever not put Salford top and I was like I think this is I think it's the first we've ever actually done it um because it does feel different this time around uh they you know I as a general barometer I think taking losing playoff finalists is quite a good place to start for teams who are going to do well the season after like unless it's a one-off incredible campaign you think back to Newport County who got so close under Michael Flynn against all odds so you know those not necessarily the case when you've got one of the highest spending teams in a league who have a squad of players that have been you know put together to win promotion they just fall short the chances are they're going to go well again the season after they've hired a new manager called Peter Klamovsky whose nickname is now the clam on our podcast who is Ange Postacoglu's number two in the Australian youth system and then also in Japan before he went on his own management journey in the J League, most recently manager of Malaysia.

49:22It doesn't seem like an obvious choice to bring into League Two, but we're excited to see his brand of front-footed attacking football.

49:29George Elek:Was he the guy who was telling Ange that he was too defensive? Or is he a guy that was telling Ange, you know, what are we going to say? From what we're being told, he's very much an Ange disciple. So he will be following in those footsteps rather than, yeah, he's not the missing Ying to Andrew Yang. I feel League 2 is not the place for that. I mean, my hunch is, having watched a lot of League 2, it feels a risky place to play Ange ball. Yeah, that was our, I said to Ali in May, like, I've got to remember for the 1-24s that teams who win League 2 are always kind of, keep the ball in the air, good from set pieces, and then here we are putting up the team that are probably going to have 70 % possession on pitches that are going to resemble our very little grass from January through to March.

50:15but they've just got a ridiculously good squad of players and then off the back of the playoff final defeat they've added two players who would have been pretty good signings for a League One team a top-end League One team too McCorley Langstaff scored 28 goals in a season for Knox County last time he was playing in League Two got a move to Millwall where he wasn't as prolific but still wasn't unpopular with their fans for his movement and his ability to at least press from the front he's now dropped back into League 2 with Salford and then we've got Molyneux from Doncaster who posted ridiculous numbers when he was last in League 2 when Doncaster won the league, I think it was 16 goals and 10 assists or something like that a player who plays off the right hand side very good delivery but also an amazing long shot on him and adding those two to what's already a very good team at League 2 level I just find it hard not to see their quality really paying dividends

51:12Seb Hutchinson:Seb, who are you looking out for? I would say Grimsby Town. I've always had a soft spot for them. I went to Bundle Park quite a few times, actually. And I feel in this particular situation, they've been... I almost don't want them to go up in a weird way. I just want them to be a presence in that part of the league. I feel it's a lot to ask to push up. But then you look at Lincoln City, what they've done, and Grimsby, being from the same county, will feel, well, maybe that's an aspiration for us. Sorry to say that. but I say David Artel Gibraltar International I like quirks like that but for Groomersby Town I've seen them in the National League and seen them come up essentially being a club in League 2 where you think that's where they should be now I want to know and this is maybe a throwback to the gentleman here we look at Salford and the pressure on them weirdly Groomersby Town are a club where seeing a side like Salford maybe scream past you and think oh they're going to go over the hills Wrexham style but it's never happened just the fact they can mix it with them in that league and say remind them this is where you should be you're not going to go any further the experience of seeing them beat Southampton in the FA Cup I love that so much this experience of seeing them knock out Manchester United last season on penalties I love that so much and even though Grimsby Town supporters will maybe some of them be in position as well why shouldn't we push on but actually I think English football needs clubs like Grimsby Town to hold the whole fabric of what makes our football so great you have a club playing for a coastal town essentially and in fact they're based even more east to where the actual town is in Cleethorpes it just it just spreads the geography around the nation but also it's that reminder if you're another club from London from Manchester area and you go and play at these clubs these are the places where people stereotypically say we don't want to go there we're going to make it hard and when you do go there you do get that sense.

53:03Seb Hutchinson:Manchester United experienced it, but there'll be clubs even in League Two, Salford to pick them out again, who are still experiencing, thinking, oh, we just can't wait to get out of here because of what we believe where we should be. Another reason why I have a soft spot for them, Paul Hurst, who was the manager there, me and him both did a journalism course together, a master's degree about over 20 years ago. And ever since then, I think he was at Rotherham at the time. I've always thought, and he spoke about wanting to be a manager and all this sort of stuff. To see his progression as well was good to see and I always wanted him to do well.

53:34Seb Hutchinson:And he did well at Groomsby before Artel took over.

53:37George Elek:So you did better in the journalism course.

53:40Seb Hutchinson:Well, not to go into detail, but we were split from the footballers because we'd done degrees at undergrad level. I see. One of the provisos of them being on the course is we don't want to talk to the normal journalists. We don't want to talk to them. Exactly. Don't make us talk to them.

53:56George Elek:There was a snobbishness from the real journalists looking down at the footballers.

53:59Seb Hutchinson:Yeah, exactly.

54:02George Elek:Final word from you, Ali, on League 2? Yeah, I think I'll add Bristol Rovers into the mix here. They were, I mean, spiralling last season. They came down from League 1. Surprisingly, I think they all felt they were in a pretty good position, starting to establish themselves as a League 1 club. That was the plan. They got some very rich Kuwaiti owners in, and that felt like that was going to help boost their budget and naturally would lead to improvement up towards the top of League 1. Instead, they got relegated and last season they lost 10 games in a row in the first half of the season and they were in and around the League 2 relegation spots.

54:37So they turned, as so many have before, to Steve Evans. And you have to say it worked out pretty well. They didn't start unbelievably quickly under him, but from the 27th of January onwards, so that's three and a half months of football, they got five points more than anyone else in the league. They rattled off an eight-game winning streak to end the season. Evans has very very very clear style of play which maybe unlike Peter Klamovsky is the kind of prototype League 2 successful team he's got aerial target men at the top of the pitch he's got individual quality out wide, he's got solid midfielders, big strong defenders and I see them certainly in the top three I wouldn't be surprised if they win the league so yeah that's probably the one that I wanted to mention

55:25George Elek:Thanks everyone, I had a nice time, thanks Ali Thank you, Max. Pints and Championship Football Friday night for Wolves Blackburn at the Volley South in Bermondsey. See you there. I'll ask Mrs. Rushton if I can get a pass. Thank you, George. Thanks. My pleasure. Thanks, Seb. Thank you, Max. Football Weekly is produced by Rory Simon and Jesse Howard. The executive producer is Danielle Stephens. We'll be back on Monday. Yes, on Monday.

55:57you