Premier League season preview: Leeds to Wolves: Football Weekly

12:04Max Rushden:I suppose the one thing to add is they look very light in central defence. If anything happens, Kanata or Virgil, then I could see that being a problem obviously there's 20 days of the transfer window remaining so that they may bring in someone Mark Gay has been talked about I think in pre-season they've had Andy Robertson do a shift in the heart of defence Graven Burch has played in the heart of defence maybe Endo as well can do a job but I do think they are at the moment completely over-reliant on Kanata and Van Dijk which is fine as long as they're fit but if either of them suffered an injury that was going to keep them out for a long period, I could see that being a problem.

12:51Max Rushden:But otherwise, I think they'll retain their title.

12:54Jonathan Wilson:You have them first. I have them third. Wilson? Third. Bruin? Second. Second. Okay, how exciting. Okay, then Manchester City, who've brought in Rinders from AC Milan. Ryan Ignore is coming from Wolves. Ryan Cherky as well from Lyon. James Trafford from Burnley. and Sveir Naipan, a midfielder from Rosenberg. They've obviously lost Kevin De Bruyne and Kyle Walker. A lot of experience in there. They begin at Molineux, then they play Spurs, Brighton, Man United and Arsenal in their opening five games. Presume, Barry, the hunger will be back for City.

13:29Max Rushden:Yeah, I'd imagine so. Obviously, every City preview has to be accompanied by the big charges asterisks. I think much of their City, this is, it's kind of Pep's third iteration of City, isn't it? with no De Bruyne now. Much will depend, I suspect, on whether Phil Foden has a good season or not. He was weirdly bad last season, I thought. He needs to step up, I suspect. The signings they've brought in, I suspect James Trafford will definitely challenge Ederson for the first-choice goalkeeper position. They've just got so many good players. There's no real megabuck signing. They're all around the 50-60 million mark, I think.

14:13Max Rushden:I think they will challenge for the title, but I don't think they'll win it. I could also see them finishing maybe 9th or 10th. I don't know.

14:23Jonathan Wilson:Well, Johnny Lu had them 6th, Wilson, which surprised me. But how do you... And I think they will win the title this year. I certainly have them top. But how do you see them going? And how do you see them changing from what went wrong last year?

14:36Barry Glendenning:The signings both in January and in the summer reflect this. I think they probably tried to get away with one year too many with too many players who were getting towards the end. Rodri being injured obviously was the huge issue and I think a lot depends on how well he comes back. I mean, if Rodri is back at his imperious best, then absolutely no reason why they shouldn't win the title. I think a lot depends as well on Guardiola that he clearly found last season very difficult. That interview he gave to GQ, he sounded very tired. He was talking about the break he was going to have when his contract's up in 2027.

15:10Barry Glendenning:well, he didn't specifically say when his contract's up in 2027, he said when he leaves City, but his contract is up in 2027. So you assume he's looking at that as the end. I'm never sure it's a great sign if you're embarking on quite a big job of rebuilding. You're bringing in, what sort of, is it nine new players this year? And you're already thinking of a holiday you're going to have when you're finished. That doesn't sound like somebody who's got bags of energy. But, you know, it may be this is a new challenge for him and he is sort of energised by that. it's almost a bit I don't know if you've read Stuart Lee's autobiography but he talks about how he's doing this long tour in the Southern Hemisphere in fact and how he got bored and he would then liven up for himself by deliberately losing part of a room in New Zealand just for the fun of getting it back and

15:55Jonathan Wilson:I mean I've lost many rooms

15:58Barry Glendenning:not quite so deliberately Have you ever got one back? No I don't think so But imagine how good that would be right? Yeah yeah And Guardiola's in the rare position most managers when things start to go wrong they just get sacked because he's got so much credit in the bank he's he's got this chance to to rebuild and it may be that that does sort of give him this sort of renewed sense of purpose it does sort of um you know recharge him but you know he's been a manager for well at the top level for 16 of the last 17 years and that is a long time for managers to be at the very top so it's it's very difficult to know whether he will be recharged or whether he won't be if he's recharged yeah they can win the title if if not then it could

16:34Jonathan Wilson:be a difficult season for them so it's interesting that they brought in those players in january who have had time to settle down. I think Marmous is such a brilliant player. If him and Haaland can sort of find a way of working together, can they?

16:46John Brewin:It did seem a bit of cross purposes a bit last season, didn't they? I mean, it's funny when you look at those January signings. Victor Hayes has already gone to Girona. Now that normally isn't a positive sign for City, is it? Though he's very young. I mean, to say City are the great intangible of the season, really, because Because previously City have signed players that you thought ready-made. This guy will come in and be brilliant for them. And we're buying players that we knew all about, like Jack Grealish. And Jack Grealish is one of the people that has supported the club, like Kevin De Bruyne, like Kyle Walker.

17:23John Brewin:So they're not particularly recognisable. But the question is, as Jonathan says, it's in Pep. And Pep's been pretty public-facing this summer. Big GQ interview. Hanging around at the Oasis concert. but, you know, videoing himself singing into his iPhone at the concert as I've never done that, but, you know, whatever.

17:45Jonathan Wilson:Which song did he choose to sing along to?

17:47John Brewin:I think it was Don't Look Back in Angle, which is the Manchester anthem, so fair enough. To be fair to Pep, I don't know if you saw this tweet over the summer which was about how Pep has become part of Manchester and you never saw that from Alex Ferguson, which is nonsense because Fergie's there still lives there Fergie's one of Fergie's best mates was a guy called Foo Foo Lamar who was basically a drag artist right his real name was Frank got it yeah in the gay village and so like you can't get more investors in a city than hanging around there so there's this whole sort of because Manchester is about City v United right yeah I mean as you can tell by my own dribblings on the subject.

18:36John Brewin:But when we're talking about greatness as a manager, why do we think Ferguson was a great manager? It's the reinventions, isn't it? It's the coming back again and again and again. And if Pep does it this time, with this group of players that we don't really know, we don't really know what tactics he's going to adopt, we don't know if he's... Because he's taught, hasn't he, about maybe it's about being more aggressive, maybe it's being like Bournemouth, maybe it's being like Newcastle. If he does a tactical revolution with this group of players and wins the title, well, all hail Pep.

19:04Jonathan Wilson:I suppose defensively, you're right, they will not look like... When you think of City, you just think you know all the players. But yeah, it'd be interesting to see.

19:13Barry Glendenning:Well, Ayat Nuri, I think, is a really interesting signing because I would never have picked him as a Guardiola player. Wolves, great to watch because he gets up and down. He's kind of fun to watch as a neutral. Is he really going to be able to sort of adapt himself to the discipline of a Guardiola side? that smells immediately to me of one of those signings that Pep has two looks at him and then does he get greelished

19:38John Brewin:exactly yeah or maybe even does he get Calvin Phillips yeah oh yeah exactly and the thing is Pep is good at burning bridges with players but it's like not interested and you've got there's a long list of those players

19:51Jonathan Wilson:I suppose we don't know at the time of recording Savino's still there and I suppose if he does go they could bring in Rodrigo I mean Rodrigo wow wow guys yeah

20:01Barry Glendenning:But the Savino, if he does go, City had this spell of, I don't know how long it would have been, say seven, eight years, where they didn't get a transfer wrong. They were brilliant at signing players. That just seems to have gone slightly wrong in that last season under the Chiqui Pagiristein. Obviously, Ugo Viana's come in now. These are Ugo Viana signings. And it does just feel, I mean, the profile of the player seems younger, less proven, which is fine. I mean, that's a logical way to do it in many ways. A lot of clubs are doing that. Ryan Cherky I think is a hugely exciting prospect not quite guaranteed that he'll fit in straight away but he's definitely a player you would like to have at your club but I think there is a question mark now of a city's recruitment in the way they just hadn't been for a long time

20:46Jonathan Wilson:Have we done their positions? No Barry

20:48Barry Glendenning:Second

20:49Jonathan Wilson:Fourth Third Top That'll do for part one Part two we'll begin with Manchester United

21:03Jonathan Wilson:Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Yes, please come to our live show on the 11th of September. Playing the Troxie in London. Wilson, you're part of the panel. Yeah, very excited. Along with Johnny Lu, Nicky Bandini. Lots of cameos. Fancy coming down, John? Yeah, I think so. There you are, John Bruin coming down. This is great, getting everyone in. Tickets can be purchased by heading to theguardian.com slash footballweeklylive. We're live streaming it across the world. No excuses for any of you lot to watch it at some point. and lots of videos, etc. Plug in what we're going to be doing on our Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikToks.

21:37Jonathan Wilson:Manchester United, then.

21:38Barry Glendenning:Sorry, you did not mean no excuse not to watch it.

21:40Jonathan Wilson:What did I say? No excuse to watch it. Both are fine. If I find out any of you have watched it, I'll be very disappointed. Manchester United, then, have brought in Brian Mbumo, Matthias Cunha, Benjamin Sesko. They're interested in Balaba. Rashford has gone. Christian Eriksen's gone. They begin at home to Arsenal. Then they go to Fulham, home to Burnley, away to City, home to Chelsea. They came 15th last year. Dwayne says, how many points will Manchester United win the league by? Danny, can United fit in a title parade before the World Cup? Come on then, John. They've spent a lot of money. How are you feeling?

22:18John Brewin:Well, I'm surprised they've spent so much money. That's the first thing to say. The players that they've brought in are all good players, but they're not top, top players. because that's not the market that Manchester United can exist in anymore.

22:35Jonathan Wilson:You almost went full-must.

22:36John Brewin:Top, top, top, top. Top, top, top. But they can't... Say Rodrigo, you mentioned before. He's not going to sign for Manchester United. But they are still capable of picking off players from smaller clubs. So Mbwemo, watched a lot of him at Brentford. Good player. Can he make the step up? Cunha... Or just step down. Well, it's undeniable, yes.

23:09John Brewin:I'm just getting used to it, all right. It's been 10 years, but it still hurts. It still hurts. It's been 12. Whatever, God. But there was two years of hope, but there's 10 of misery. I mean, did he even win trophies and it's still miserable? Oh, God, we're not supposed to do that again. No, but Kunja, brilliant play for Wolves, explosive. So you've got this sort of idea that you're looking for the new firebrand, the new Gansana. Let's not give him that label already. That's absolutely ludicrous. Sesko, it's funny, isn't it? A play like that, there's so many clubs linked with him. Manchester United end up with him and you already get the back channels.

23:52John Brewin:Well, you know, a lot of clubs have looked at him. he's no good and you know so it is funny that they've just gone big Sir Jim spending has gone for they've gone for strikers they've just gone for it gone for bit as Lars made the point

24:07Jonathan Wilson:they've gone for lots of players who just shoot from anywhere it's going to be fun

24:10John Brewin:it's showbiz it's showbiz it's Manchester United let's bring back Manchester United as an entertainment franchise rather than you know a black comedy you know it's can be both and it is likely to be both the other aspect of course is that this red-hot manager that they signed back in October, November last year almost appeared gave up on the domestic season and gave up on a lot of players. He now has to work with those players that he's got at the moment. He has had the summer to train them as he would like. He's had the summer to fit them to this formation that for some reason he is utterly wedded to.

24:54John Brewin:I think one of my predictions for the season is that at one point he will not play that formation and he might just be a little bit better. Or it's worse and he says I was right all along or whatever. There'll be some variation there. But my observation of Amarim over the summer is this. I was away, came back from holiday from my black metal weekend, got home. And just as I got there, they're showing the Premier League, the summer series. and I didn't catch any of the game but I did see they were like oh we're just waiting to speak to Ruben Amorim and they cut to Ruben Amorim face like thunder and they took a while to get Ruben Amorim on because he was obviously annoyed about it it was an own goal wasn't it in that game he was annoyed he also has already developed the curse of Manchester United he looks about 15 years older than when he took that job remember when Jose Mourinho went from salt and pepper to white yeah It happens to the best of us.

25:53John Brewin:Well, quite, yes. But it's, let's see how the Manchester United process. David Moyes turned up, you know, strawberry blonde, left a very grey man. So we'll have to see.

26:05Jonathan Wilson:I didn't think you'd be that enthusiastic. Barry, how do you see them?

26:08Max Rushden:It's one of the tougher ones to call. I personally think Ruben Amorim will whip Manchester United into shape and make them a force again. I could be wrong. he could be the equivalent of the monorail guy of the Simpsons.

26:26Barry Glendenning:At least he has built a monorail in Lisbon. That actually did happen. Seems to have left quite a good monorail heritage in Lisbon as well.

26:35Max Rushden:I think the monorail guy in the Simpsons built one in Shelbyville as well, but it wasn't a very good monorail. Then there's the concern. the players he has brought in or United have brought in are clearly good players but then Manchester United have brought in a lot of good players over the last 10 years who have suddenly stopped being good players and become very bad players Will this happen again? Only time will tell So I'm inclined to think I can't see them plumbing the depths of last season I just cannot see that happening as funny as it would be I think they'll be fine without pulling up too many trees.

27:18Jonathan Wilson:Give us your thoughts, Wilson, and where you have them.

27:20Barry Glendenning:Barry says they've brought in very good players, but I'm not sure they have. They've brought in players who might be very good. Like Kynia is very tempestuous. That could easily go... It might be fine. He might be a canton now, but it could go wrong. And Bermot has only really had one season of being anywhere near as prolific as he was last season. Brentford, I think, is a club where last season everything worked. Every aspect of it was working together. The squad was incredibly well-crafted. and I suspect you take any unit out of that, they might not be as effective elsewhere. He might be fine, but there's a question.

27:51Seshko, big, he's quick, can't finish one-on-one.

27:55Barry Glendenning:Now, he's young, that might come. So there's a doubt there. And is he any better? He probably is better than Hoyland was when he turned up, or Zerkesy when he turned up, and Zerkesy, a completely different type of player. But you saw the thing that those players couldn't do immediately is highlighted at the United, immediately exposed. Each of these three players, the same thing could happen. My other question is, how much were they paying for those packed lunches? Because if this is a club that's on the brink of bankruptcy, as Jim Ratcliffe told us, and then they stop for packed lunches and suddenly they can spend two and a million quid on three forwards, that doesn't sound, you know...

28:33I don't know,

28:33Barry Glendenning:if you go to Pret every day,

28:34Jonathan Wilson:you'll be skidding quickly. Actually, a Pret box is now ten quid. I had a shawarma box yesterday. That was good, but ten pounds.

28:41Barry Glendenning:Well, they weren't giving them pret, were they? They should either be in their own kitchen. Add a green goddess juice and that is just a dessert. That's madness. So much sugar in there. What are you doing? Yeah.

28:50John Brewin:That's what he needed, maybe.

28:52Max Rushden:I think the fact they don't have European football as well is quite an important factor.

28:57Barry Glendenning:That is a big thing. And I think the one advantage they've had, or should have had, is they had all this last two thirds of last season for Amarim to look at the squad, assess it, start to put things in place but then you'd have hoped with all that sort of preparation soon as the window opens in July but it got in the four or five players they want crucially got rid of the players they want to get rid of I mean don't forget that Anthony's still there Sancho's still there, Malassia's still there Ganaccio's still there so four of the five players they want to get rid of are still there taking their wages, draining resources, I mean sorry that sounds like it's their fault, it's not their fault it's that the United have created that situation and as long as they're there it's obviously hampering what they can do elsewhere I don't think if you'd looked at the squad last season necessarily have said that the front three was what needed the big change I mean their best player over the last four or five years has been Brino Verneich and you would think he'd be one of those three maybe the plan's to play him deeper but then you need somebody with an incredible engine to play alongside him Ugarte really hasn't looked like last season he didn't look capable of doing that made the big mistake against Everton in the summer series I mean Balaba would seem that profile of player who could do that but he's still young there's a lot of pressure to put on him where does Kaby Mane fit it seems this great young talent United have but they've got a system that doesn't really work for him Amigallo looked really good in parts last season but is he really a wing back it seems like he's so short oh god this is so miserable oh no he's so he's so short you sort of think if he's If he's playing right wing back, it's the opposition.

30:37Barry Glendenning:All you do is move a ball down the other wing, pop it up to the back post, and then... Duncan Ferguson heads out. Yeah, if you've dragged the back three across, then Jallot... What's Jallot going to do against a six-foot-four... What would Jallot do in training in Sheshko? Nothing. Where are we putting United? I have them seventh. Eighth. Sixth. After all that. Yeah, I was going to say. Well, I think the lack of European football, that time will help. I'm so optimistic they're going to come fifth.

31:05Jonathan Wilson:fifth wow um so the predictions don't really fit with the discussion but that's fine uh newcastle then they've bought an antinialanga they bought an aaron ramsdale malik tau is on his way in from ac milan they want johan wisser as well they've lost lloyd kelly uh who wasn't there anyway i think last year sean longstaff and callum wilson have gone they go to villa and then play liverpool leeds wolves and bournemouth they came fifth last year where we have two sunderland fans on this panel. David Ornstein tweeting this morning, he's adamant he will not play for Newcastle ever again, even if the window closes.

31:42Jonathan Wilson:No wish to reintegrate. God, they should have had him at that barbecue. Oh, yeah. Shouldn't they? So, presuming he goes then, John, how do we view this Newcastle season? Johnny Lou had them third, saying, look, beyond the noise, they're still a very good team with a very good coach.

31:58John Brewin:I don't doubt that it's a talented group, but it's a much lessened group without a player like Isaac. We've got to suggest that that is the end for him. They're just going to have to get that deal done and then buy in the players to replace him and rather flesh out the rest of the team. Borrowed Aaron Ramsdale, didn't they, on loan? Goalkeeper's been a problem for them, hasn't it? Nick Pope, they've sort of lost trust in him. So he doesn't play out. Depends how you want to play, right? Yes, yeah. Does Aaron Ramsdale play that well out? Well, I mean, that was the Raya Ramsdale...

32:31Barry Glendenning:Yeah, that's what I was going to say. He's better than Nick Pope. He's also a relegation specialist.

32:35John Brewin:Yes, well, yeah, you're into sort of Nigel Quasi territory, aren't you, with a goalkeeper? But listen, Newcastle, it's almost like you can't talk about the football with them because it's like this soap opera has taken a different direction. It's the realisation that maybe the Saudi ownership wasn't the golden ticket. Maybe, you know, the diversification of Saudi-Arabian interests maybe has Newcastle a little further down the priority list than before. It's a situation that will amuse quite a lot of people because the way that the Saudis were received with such open arms, though you have to have sympathy for Newcastle fans who felt that the Mycashley reign would not be repeated.

33:23John Brewin:Eddie Howe is a manager who has done a great job for them. This is a severe test of his ability to pull the club together. you'd expect the public to be unified behind him. They've got someone to hate. That's Alexander Izak now, the guy that was there, Godhead last season. It's going to be very, very difficult. They're in the Champions League as well. So in the reverse of Manchester United having a clear look at things, being able to play week to week, they won't be able to play week to week and expect them to drop out of the top five. We're going to have to see what dealings they can do. The other thing is, compare the Saudis to the Abu Dhabi arrangement, Abu Dhabi, when they went into Manchester City, got the set-up behind the manager correct.

34:04John Brewin:That's what's gone wrong at Newcastle. It's been a mess. Paul Mitchell, sporting director, has left. Amanda Stavey left the club, which people say has had a big effect. It's been a mess behind and you've had the recruitment policy not working. You can have all the money in the world, as Manchester United have proved. If you don't spend it properly on the right people running the club, then you've got problems. And those are the problems Newcastle have got.

34:29Jonathan Wilson:I've got them down in 10th Barry

34:31Max Rushden:I've done 11th the weird thing is if a couple of days after the end of last season you'd asked me I'd have thought this is going to be a big summer of recruitment for them and they will definitely be in the shake up for the title next season and now I think they'll do well to finish in the top half of the table I'm not going to pretend I haven't I've found this all Isaac saga and them this apparent reluctance of so many players to go near them. Hilarious. I'm not going to pretend anything other than that. But, yeah, there's just something weird going on there. I don't think it's a North East thing.

35:12Max Rushden:No. It's specifically a Newcastle thing. I'm wondering, is there some big footballer group WhatsApp chat that they all know something we don't? I'm only guessing. but I think Newcastle it should be a very attractive proposition and players won't touch them with a pole

35:32John Brewin:it's a great place to live and we'll visit it for Jonathan's wedding it's a fantastic place I love Newcastle as a place I'd happily live there but footballers don't seem to want to go there to play for Eddie Howe

35:44Jonathan Wilson:so where are you putting them? I have them 11th 8th and because Johnny had them 3rd in the sense that we do get so carried away with transfer stories.

35:55Max Rushden:Well, I just think there's been so much focus on Izak and Wissa. They're very woefully short in other areas. They need a couple of centre-backs.

36:06John Brewin:Botman isn't the fittest.

36:08Barry Glendenning:I think there's a mood issue there as well. I think that's what's so frustrating for them. They win a domestic trophy the first time in 70 years. They're back in the Champions League. This should have been all positivity. and instead there's this you know their sort of iconic player wants to leave I think a couple of other players are looking at that and thinking well if he wants to go maybe I also want to go their struggles to bring players in I think mean that that tier of players just below Ezek are thinking well is this place building or not and I think I've got sympathy with them there in the sense that Amanda Savvy left for reasons of health and that's very sad and she clearly performed a very useful function there in terms of being some kind of liaison and it appears that besides the briefings it's very hard to know exactly what the truth is but it appears that Paul Mitchell took a much harder line with Isak than she would have done and maybe had she been able to remain that situation could have been resolved they could have come to some kind of agreement do us one more year and we'll let you go we'll put in a release clause or whatever rather than this really toxic standoff where it's very hard to see how he could come back now.

37:20Barry Glendenning:I know players have come back. Luis Suarez wanted to leave Liverpool and came back. It helped he was banned for the first seven games of that season. So there was a natural sort of cooling off period. But it does happen, but it's very hard to see it in this circumstance. Also, Darren Eel, the CEO, he's in terrible health. And that's a tragic situation. But that possibly means they haven't quite had the leadership they might have had. And then the fact that the complication that the Saudi piff, I mean, one of the things Paul Mitchell got frustrated with, I think, was things had to go through a whole series of committees.

37:54Barry Glendenning:He could never really take a decision. It always took ages to get done. And the less interest of the Saudis becoming Newcastle, and they do seem to be refocusing on Saudi-based sport, then the further down that priority list they slide. So the issue is not really the quality of players in the squad. I think Barry's right. There are a couple of areas where they obviously are short. it's just this sense of hang on this has stopped moving forward and as soon as you lose that momentum the better players are always looking hang on where can I get a better deal where's the next place to go have not recently been a regular Champions League qualifier means there's always that doubt and still it appears Benny Manczewski preferred the offering at Manchester United which assuming he's got a he did listen to our bit about Man United to be fair but assuming he's got a cable channel in Leipzig he must have seen United play but even then that is a more I mean Mepa they offered him more money I don't know if Isak was only on 20 grand a week maybe it is purely financial but anyway United's package was or Manchester United's package was more attractive than Newcastle United's package

38:53Jonathan Wilson:Nottingham Forest brought in Dan and Doy from Bologna forward and a winger Igor Jesus from Botafogo and Ajay Acuna a centre-back from Botafogo as well Alanga's gone to Newcastle Danilo's gone a couple of others have gone as well they begin at home to Brentford they play Palace West Ham Arsenal Burnley They finished seventh. Jim says, as the headline in Wilson's recent article noted, analysing pre-season friendlies is maddening, but right now it's all we have. With that in mind, Forrest scoring one goal in seven games feels suboptimal, don't you think? They did massively overperform expectations.

39:24Jonathan Wilson:Certainly me and Barry's expectations. We had them relegated. They have to compete on multiple fronts. They have kept hold of Morgan Gibbs-White. Elliot Anderson was perhaps England's stand-up player in the other 21 Euros. I know Harvey Elliot got player of the tournament. How do we think they're going to go, Barry?

39:39Max Rushden:I'm not relegating them this season, but I do expect a massive drop-off from what they achieved last season. I think Alanga is a huge loss. I don't think Chris Wood will score anywhere near 20 goals again. Morgan Gibbs-White appears to be being held there very much against his will, so I suspect he may not perform as well as he did last season. They have had a clear-out of quite a lot of dead wood, I suppose you could call it Milenkovic and Murillo if they can be as good again this season or as they were last season that would be a big feather in their cap but I do expect just an overall drop off and I can't see them troubling the top half of the table but I'm not relegating

40:27Barry Glendenning:Well I've actually got them 8th I've got them 14th for much the same reasons as Barry said I think having to play in Europe will put a stress on that squad Chris Wood had the season of his life last season he may well get 10 or 12 or 15 this season but it's not going to be as good as last season I'm not convinced that Dan and Doyle is an upgrade on Alanga he might be, he's played very well for Bologna but whether he's exactly that sort of very direct somebody who's very good in transition Alanga was perfect for that and Dan and Doyle may not be quite perfect for that so yeah, I think there will be a drop off I just sort of sense around that club I mean I'm saying this is some great wisdom I've defined but there is a volatility around that club Can you put your finger on where that comes from?

41:15Barry Glendenning:I don't know I don't know Okay fine It tends to come from the top these things but who knows Was this one of the questions we had to answer who's going to be the first manager to go but Nuno for no good reason is pretty high on that list just because Maranakis he likes sacking a manager Where have you got them John?

41:32John Brewin:I've got them 14th I think that European, well, being in the European routine will affect them as it has done so many teams over the years. They haven't really strengthened. This striker Igor Jesus that's using this, Maranacos appears to have this hotline to Brazil, doesn't he? In which they got Murillo. What Forrest did so well with a couple of players is that they have whereas, say, smaller European clubs pick up Brazilian players and then not in Forest going straight to the producer and that's to the original line of it and you know picking up that talent let's see how he goes Brentford had to sign a player called Igor last season and he got injured I'm hoping that that doesn't happen the same we need a fit Igor I want to see both fit Igors this season Brentford are going to need their Igor has there ever been

42:27Barry Glendenning:a good Igor? Igor Stepanus Igor Tudor Igor Tudor was a good player Igor Stimach? I've been in the Premier League Igor Seamach was good in Derby Yeah fair enough Best Igor

42:37Jonathan Wilson:Best Igor

42:38John Brewin:Best Igor

42:39Jonathan Wilson:I'm here there is a reason for me Alright that'll do for part 2 Part 3 Igor Bishkan as well Says producer Joel Yeah of course There's a plethora of Igors Bishkan was better in the Champions League

42:49Barry Glendenning:Than he was in the Premier League Still I mean he was so good Against Juventus We're tight for time

42:55Jonathan Wilson:We can't go into the Eagles Premier League history Part 3 will begin with Sunderland

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43:41Jonathan Wilson:Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. If you're a regular listener, you'll know that this month Football Weekly is being supported by TNT Sports. In the ads, we've been talking about how TNT Sports is the destination for football's not normal moments. Whether it's the Premier League, the UEFA Champions League or the Men's and Women's FA Cup every match day has the potential to deliver drama, fun and excitement. And as this is a prediction pod, we thought we'd ask the panel for a forecast of their not normal moment of the season ahead. Something that would never happen. Man United finishing 15th.

44:08Jonathan Wilson:Spurs finishing 17th. Big Sam coming back. Aston Villa signing Rashford and Ascensio in January. So yeah, something that would never happen, but actually might happen. John, I'll start with you.

44:18John Brewin:I've got a couple here.

44:20Jonathan Wilson:Okay, good.

44:20John Brewin:Yeah, I was watching Everton, unveiling their new stadium, the Hill Dickinson. It was a veterans game. Everton v Roma. I'll tell you who was the best player on the pitch. Leighton Baines.

44:33Jonathan Wilson:Oh, yeah.

44:34John Brewin:I think Baines could still do a job for Everton. So Baines back. Baines back for Everton. I'd like to see it. I think he could grace the Hill Dickinson. And another one. I was sad to see that Juanma Lillo, Pep Guardiola, almost like his comedy partner, His call-risk line partner has stepped away. He's been replaced by Pepin Linders, formerly Klops. So that's an interesting swap, wife swap, if you'd like. But Pepin Linders is an ambitious guy. I could see him taking a club job somewhere else. We know there's been a bromance going on recently. I know who the new assistant should be for Pep. Noel Gallagher?

45:16No.

45:17John Brewin:Neil Warnock.

45:18Jonathan Wilson:Neil Warnock.

45:19Max Rushden:Yes, that's a great idea. Barry? What would be nice if we could get through an entire season where Arsenal fans are not in any way upset by any refereeing decision that goes against them at all over the course of 38 games. They're perfectly satisfied. There's no talk of conspiracies of any kind from on high, from Stockley Park or from the PGO, MOL. It's a pipe dream, but it could happen.

45:51Jonathan Wilson:I'll say at no point in the season we'll get frustrated by the handball door. Wilson?

45:57Barry Glendenning:I like John, I've got a couple. I quite like, especially a big team who have a bad start to the season and in January they say, you know what, we haven't really been performing so we're going to lower the ticket prices to reward our fans for their loyalty. Perfect. The impossible. Or, and this is even less likely, a journey from London to the North West for a game to run smoothly. or and this is perhaps I think this is vaguely plausible and to be fair this is somebody on Twitter that asked us a question what stimulated the thought after Newcastle have got rid of Isak and they're desperately scrambling around on the last couple of days of the window for a forward they re-sign Ivan Toney from Saudi Arabia

46:43Jonathan Wilson:that is interesting and you could see that happening prodigal son returns with the Premier League UEFA Champions League Europa League Conference League Emirates FA Cup and Adobe Women's FA Cup all in one place. TNT Sports Not Normal. Stream TNT Sports on Discovery Plus or watch TNT Sports channels on EESky and Virgin Media. Subscription required. Age 18 plus. T's and C's apply. Okay then on to Sunderland. They've bought in reams of footballers including Granit Xhaka, Simon Ladinga from Brighton as well. They've lost Joe Bellingham. They've lost Tom Watson. They begin at home to West Ham. They've then played Burnley, Brentford Palace and Aston Villa they won the playoffs in dramatic style certainly the playoffs semi-finals in dramatic style Chris says how the Newcastle fan how delighted are Barry and Jonathan knowing they've arrived in the Premier League the exact season Newcastle's wheels fall off finishing above us is surely on the cards I was speaking to Kevin Hatchard yesterday European football expert Wilson he was saying a lot of the players that you brought in are quite physical it could be quite a dirty big boot hit them hard Sunderland fine yeah no no I'm excited about it

47:46Barry Glendenning:the best recent Sunderland was the Sam Annerly on London, they didn't mind a tackle. So, whatever it takes. If you'd asked me immediately after the final whistle on the day of the playoff final... Through the tears? Through the tears, yeah. I would have said,

48:04John Brewin:I'm just going to enjoy the day

48:06Barry Glendenning:because next season is going to be terrible. But the signings have actually given me a little... I hate this about football. It just gives you hope. Just when you think, I can write off this season, it's fine. The aim is actually to be the first team to get in single-figure points. To set a record that will last the test of time, a record some have held twice previously, but actually I think the signings have been as good as you could realistically have expected. There's a nice range of ages that they're still going for the young players to develop and sell on, but they have brought in some experience.

48:33Barry Glendenning:I mean, Granit Xhaka, I think, particularly looks a pretty smart signing. I mean, how bad must Eric Ten Hag's first training session have been at David Kinsley? But suddenly, Granit Xhaka discovers his lifelong ambition to live in Sunderland. but anyway I'm grateful that he has so it's going to be incredibly difficult for them but there's a chance I think the start is pretty kind I think the stats show that newly promoted teams if they don't get 8 points in the first 5 games they don't stay up well starting at home to West Ham then Burnley away then Brentford at home there's a chance it's 9 points right there and then is it Palace away and then Villa at home so that's 15 points in the first 5 games and nearly half way there Barry?

49:17Max Rushden:Yeah, I presumed that when they went up, they would go straight back down. The number of players they brought in has astounded me. Some of them look... Working on the presumption that every player you bring in will be really good is quite a foolish one. But if even a third of them work out, that would still be really good. I think the signing of Granit Xhaka could be an absolute inspirational one. Interestingly, in 10 ,000 simulations of the imminent season run by the Optus supercomputer, Sunderland were the only team out of 20 who didn't win it once. So, up your a supercomputer. My sights are set slightly lower than winning it.

50:11Max Rushden:I think Regis Labrie has something about him. I really do. He's very calm, he's authoritative and very tactically flexible. I won't mind if Sunderland get relegated, but I certainly expect them to give a much better account of themselves than any of the three teams that came up last season.

50:31Jonathan Wilson:I have them 17th, John. I have them bottom chaps, I'm afraid. That's okay.

50:35John Brewin:I'm not sure why I came to that conclusion. Regis Labrie, obviously a very talented coach. Though he does remind me of someone who could work on MasterChef, the professionals. Maybe it's just the name. He sounds like a linebacker for the Buffalo Bills, doesn't he? Yeah, or a game show host or something like that. Granit Xhaka, that's an interesting signing. It feels to me that he's got the slot that should have been Jordan Henderson's. And then Odinger, a really talented player. I wonder why Brighton have let him go. That's my...

51:11Barry Glendenning:There's rumours that he's not the most dedicated trainer.

51:14John Brewin:Yes, and when you consider the managers you work with, Deserby and Herzler, they like things their own way. Let's see how Regis gets on with him.

51:25Jonathan Wilson:You just sack him in the end zone and then hats him.

51:27John Brewin:He'll get him peeling potatoes in the corner like a commie shit. Come on down.

51:33Barry Glendenning:Sutherland's pre-season has been dreadful as well. Oh, has it? They beat Augsburg and they beat South Shield as much as they've beaten anybody else. won the big local derby 4-0 as well got beat 3-0 for Avicarno at the weekend where have you got them? 20th

51:47Jonathan Wilson:oh you've got them but I'm realistic ok Baz 15th 15th good for you ok then Tottenham are brought in 17th

51:55John Brewin:I had them brought in unfortunately Spurs have brought in

51:58Jonathan Wilson:Mohamed Kudas Matthias Tell and Kevin Danzo have signed permanently Luka Vuscovic a centre back from Hadjik Split as well Jao Polini has come in. Heumann Sonner's left. Hoiberg's left as well. James Madison injured for most of the season. They begin at home to Burnley. Then they go to Man City, play Bournemouth, West Ham and Brighton. We are recording this before Tottenham's victory over PSG in the European Super Cup. I had more enthusiasm for that until their social media account was like, Bayern Munich score 2-0, Bayern Munich score 3-0, Bayern Munich score 4-0 and a pre-season friendly. Thomas Frank, look, Spurs have ruined the lives of a lot of high-profile managers.

52:35Jonathan Wilson:Can they ruin the life of a lower-profile one? Barry?

52:38Max Rushden:Probably. I have high hopes for Thomas Frank I have to say at Spurs. He has a hard act to follow insofar as Ange Postagoglu won a trophy. He doesn't have a hard act to follow insofar as Spurs lost more than half of their Premier League games last season. Was it? 22 matches. I think he's been around long enough and is smart enough not to be phased by this step up, bigger stadium, more demanding fan base. Spurs had a big problem last season, I think more so than any other side. They're just throwing away points from winning positions. I think that won't happen this season. I think they will be far more defensively solid under Frank.

53:33Max Rushden:I think they'll be better at set pieces. I think they'll be absolutely fine. I think he'll have them motoring up the table. They won't be anywhere near the relegation.

53:42Barry Glendenning:The problem Frank has is that his history shows he starts slowly at clubs. It takes a while for players to learn how to do what he wants them to do. I think at Brentford he won one of the first 10 games, I think is the stat. And because he is, as you said, he's a lower profile manager, there is a danger that a section of Spurs fans who are already a bit, why are we getting a bloke from Brentford? Surely we're better than that. They see that and they immediately turn on him and it becomes a bit like Nuno and he's drummed out by October. I think that is a genuine risk. I hope it doesn't happen because I think in time he would be good.

54:16Barry Glendenning:But already things are sort of ganging up on him, not getting Gibbs white when it looked like they got him. I think Kulusevsky's knee is still damaged, yeah.

54:25Jonathan Wilson:They're exploring Eze and Savinho and El Canoos. They explore a lot of clubs. No club better.

54:32John Brewin:at exploring transfer opportunities. Yeah, it's funny, I saw Daniel Levy did that interview with Gary Neville and talked about the money they've spent. But then I actually looked at it and actually it was money they spent previously on players that were already coming in, like Danso and Tell. Listen, I'm a huge admirer of Thomas Franklin, as I've said many times on this podcast. I do fear for him. I do think he has the wherewithal, the constitution to deal with it. At Brentford, there were a lot of difficult times over those years. He dealt with them all. when Barry says that they'll be better at set pieces, I think they couldn't be any worse than the under-and-and-and-prostacoglu at set pieces.

55:10John Brewin:Thomas Frank will actually concentrate on set pieces and not dismiss them as some mere frippery, as dear old Ange did. The thing is with Frank is that he is a pragmatic coach and he will play, he can play different styles. I think... And he changed how Brentford played. Yes, because he played that very passing game. Then he arrived as the sort of new Wimbledon in the Premier League. and by the end of it, they were playing this really attacking football. I think Tottenham fans will quite enjoy that if he plays that. And he's innovative and he has the ability to improve players, which is a big skill in managers and Tottenham need that.

55:45John Brewin:They've got quite a lot of good young players coming in. There's a lot of hope for the Japanese guy that's coming again. I think they'll be fine with Frank if there's patience there. Patience at Tottenham, in short supply over the years, but also beyond Frank there's been a big shifting in the boardroom and the sporting director and head of football and all that stuff. It's a club in transition. Funny enough, winning a trophy was supposed to be the achievement of a dream. Well, football doesn't work like that, does it? It's on to the next thing.

56:19Jonathan Wilson:I have them fifth. Sixth. Seventh. Seventh. All right. West Ham then. We are running out of time. Who could have foreseen this, West Ham and Wolves fans? As is customary, we apologise I suspect West Ham Wolf fans won't be that upset we've run out of time I have them bottom have you? yeah right I'm not quite sure why but I don't think it's going to be I mean they've brought in Jean-Claire Tadibo they already have him yeah El Hadjouf not that one left back from Sarri Pride Carl Walker-Peters and Callum Wilson Kudus has gone Zoom has gone Danny Ings gone with Carl Antonio of course great news for Barry Lucas Fabianski's gone so are you sure it's him that's gone?

57:04Jonathan Wilson:I can't be sure they start at Sunderland then they play Chelsea Forest Spurs and Palace came 14th does feel Barry like a tough season for Graham Potter this yeah

57:13Max Rushden:you look at the signings they brought in not even remotely inspirational I think West Ham's most remarkable moment last season was the Nicholas Fulcroog rant after they failed to beat Southampton I think they beat Manchester United as well Well, and they're the only two things of note, West Ham, that registered with me last season. They did change managers and everything. Yeah.

57:37Barry Glendenning:But, I mean, their form didn't change at all, did they? It was 23 points from 20 games on Lopetegui and 20 points from 18 games on Graham Potter. So it just kept going at exactly the same rate.

57:45John Brewin:It's a classic West Ham misery summer. Again, we were talking sporting directors. One came in, he's gone. The same guy that's been doing, pretty much running the shop for many years is doing it. David Sullivan, there is disquiet amongst the fans. Maybe West Ham fans wouldn't have it any other way, but you do fear for them. That game against Sunderland, six-pointer.

58:10Max Rushden:Isn't it? Twelve-pointer. Twelve-pointer. I do think that the one ray of positivity is Lucas Paquetta, he's off the hook for that. Gambling charge. Hopes will once again be pinned on Jared Bowen. Jared Bowen has twins who are over, just gone past two years old. Jared Bowen's going to be very tired. Do you know what? On the same note,

58:35Jonathan Wilson:did you see James Madison, who has three kids, has twins and another kid. And then they did an announcement saying, we're having twins again. So I was obviously, you know, I'm really sad that he's injured because I love him as a player, but I was worried about this season for him anyway for a nine month's time because you can't have twins and twins and not be absolute. Two sets of twins. Two sets of twins.

58:55Max Rushden:I've never heard of that before.

58:56Jonathan Wilson:Yeah. So Bowen will be absolutely broken. Yeah, Bowen's going to be broken, man.

59:01Max Rushden:He's worked hard enough as it is. Yeah. But the thing is, I was looking at what I said. I researched the age of Jared Bowen's twins in the course of this because there's so little else to work with. Graham Potter was sold to us as this, oh, he's a genius. And he did an undeniably good job at Brighton. But I'm beginning to wonder, has he gone by?

59:25John Brewin:I think the West Ham fans are wondering because it's not a lack of charisma. It's just that he's just a normal guy. And that isn't how football works. It doesn't work at West Ham. You're right. You need Harry. You need Harry. You need Slavin. You need someone that's got a bit of... Where are we all putting them? I have them 17th.

59:47Jonathan Wilson:18th?

59:48John Brewin:19th.

59:48Jonathan Wilson:So the three of us relegating West Ham. I'm also relegating Wolves. I have them 18th. Jorgen Strand, Larsen, sign permanently. Fair Lopez John Arias and David Moller Wolfe have come in Cunha's gone Ryan Aitnore's gone Gonzalo Guedes has gone they begin against City then they play Bournemouth Everton Newcastle and Leeds look Vito Pereira did a brilliant job with them last year and it looks like it's going to be tougher this season the thing that they can hang their hats on is him

1:00:18Barry Glendenning:under Garon Hill took 8 points from 15 games under Vito Pereira 34 points from 23 games it's a massive improvement that's you're almost trebling the points per game. If they can sustain that, then you talk about getting into Europe, but I suspect they can't sustain that. But he clearly is a very charismatic bloke. He seems to be good at motivating, not just the players, but the fan base. Once he'd come in, once that first three or four weeks had passed, he didn't really think Wolves were going to get relegated last season. So if they start well, I think they'll be comfortable in the mid-table, but they're one of those clubs who you could see falling off a wall.

1:00:51John Brewin:Look at his CV. Look how long he's lasted at his various clubs. It's a long CV, isn't it? It's a long CV. There's a lot of clubs. He's managed in Brazil, Portugal, Asia as well. He's there for a good time, not a long time, I think. And he likes his pints after points, doesn't he? Even when they were struggling with Gary O 'Neill, I always thought there's a lot of talent in the squad that's fairly latent. Fair Lopez that they brought in, a quote from Vitor Pereira, he has the magic we need. So, let's watch out for him.

1:01:22Max Rushden:They have a brilliant midfield I think in Andre and João Gomez John Arias they brought in he lit up the Clorborough Cup will he be able to carry that form onto the Premier League time will tell I don't think they'll do as well as last season but I don't I'm not relegating them either I have them 16th

1:01:42Jonathan Wilson:13th I have them 15th 15th I have them 18th quickly let's have your top 7's Barry your top 7 please

1:01:50Max Rushden:Liverpool Man City, Arsenal, Brighton, Chelsea, Spurs. And your bottom three? From the bottom, Burnley, Everton, Leeds.

1:02:00Barry Glendenning:Wilson. Top seven, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Villa, United, Tottenham. Bottom three from bottom upwards, Sunderland, Burnley, West Ham.

1:02:10John Brewin:Arsenal, winners, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Manchester, United, Villa, Tottenham. Bottom three, Burnley, West Ham, Sunderland.

1:02:20Jonathan Wilson:Right. And I have Man City winning the league, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Man United as my top seven, West Ham, Bolton, Burnley 19th and Wolves 18th. Apologies to these three sides. So you have Chelsea, you think, will win the league?

1:02:34Barry Glendenning:I think they need to bring in a centre-back, but I trust their ability to buy players. Yeah, I think, you're watching the Club World Cup final, they were so good and that was such an obvious Maresca triumph. I think last season, Mureska loaded grief, oh, this football's boring. But if they take the lead in the first 15, 20 minutes of games, and you're being slightly boring protecting a 1-0 lead, I think fans are much more accepting of that. And a lot of the problem last season was they just didn't take their chances. I know a lot of Chelsea fans got quite upset with Nicholas Jackson. They've clearly upgraded him, Jean-Pedro and Liam De Lappe, I think are both upgrades.

1:03:11Barry Glendenning:And Nicholas Jackson, I just feel really sorry for. he's one of the people who's been chewed up by that whole way of doing business, he came in having played 16 games in La Liga and suddenly oh, you're a first choice centre forward for Premier League club who expects to get in the Champions League and it's a ludicrous expectation to place on a young player, he's never had a time to develop or a place to sort of he hasn't had the right sort of curve of education so I still think there could be a player in there, I think his movement's pretty good, just not that good at finishing yet.

1:03:42Jonathan Wilson:I'm being told we have two minutes to get out of the studio. I don't know what's on next, so whatever thought you had, John, you can't have it. And that'll do. Save it for the next pod. Okay, we'll do. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Wilson. Cheers. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you, Barry. Thank you, Max. Leave us a nice review on Apple or Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, etc. And we'll be back next week. But we'll weekly as produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

1:04:11Max Rushden:This is The Guardian.