Spain outclass and outpass France; England to take on Argentina: World Cup Daily

0:00Philippe Auclair:This is The Guardian.

0:30In the second half, Olmo's glorious touch to Pedro Porro. He set himself and finished superbly. The French midfield was possibly the weakling going into this tournament, and so it proved. Olmo, Fabien Ruiz and Rodri just too good. We waited for the French onslaught, but it never came. That incredible forward line, completely blunt. And then we look ahead to tomorrow, the second-place playoff between England and Argentina. Who's going to be right back? Is Declan okay? Under a roof feels good. Is the ref mates with Messi? Let the conspiracies begin. We address a fair bit of criticism we got from you lot after the England-Norway pod, Trevor Brooking voice, we're not positive enough, is we were a bit tired, a good enough excuse.

1:06Also today, FIFA confirm a 30-minute half-time at the World Cup final. That is a lot of taking penalties against the mascot. Might there be a 64-team World Cup as well? We'll answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

1:20On the panel today with me in New York, Barry Glendening, welcome. Hi, Max. Hello, John Bruin. Hello. and in Paris Quel dommage je suis désolé Philippe Eau Claire Bonjour ça va

1:32Philippe Auclair:Bonsoir ça va pas du tout pas du tout Yeah exactly Nigel says can you just get Philippe to talk about his favourite cheeses again I don't want to hear him sad Tombo says is this what happens when French people show up to work on Bastille Day before we get the panel's thoughts I caught up with Sid Lowe after the full-time whistle Sid Lowe sitting cross-legged on the floor Spain were good weren't they? Yes they did look good and they looked very Spain-like I think there's a really interesting kind of tactical switch that has happened with Spain, which I think is very significant. But yeah, they were Spain the way they wanted to be today.

2:07And this was the way, if they were going to beat France, this was the way it was going to have to be. Take the ball off them and don't let them play. Don't let the front four really get hold of the ball and go at them. Yeah, the midfield were amazing. Like you said, they just kept the ball so brilliantly. yeah and and look i think there is i think as i mean i don't want to sort of bore you with this and and i don't want to bore myself with it really but i think one of the things that's interesting is when they won the euros two years ago we talked a lot about how lucila fuente given a twist to spain style you know we talked about tiki takers being sterile thousand passes were not really happening um and we talked about how he's shaken that style up basically by having the two wingers uh nico williams and lamina mal being very very direct being prepared to go longer and this in a way I was going to use the word regression but regression feels like a very unfair word because it sounds very loaded but this in a way was a return to the kind of Spain before that twist partly of course because Nico Williams has been injured because they've been playing Alex Baena on the wing rather than an out and out winger someone who'll come inside and play partly because Laminya Mahler has not quite found his place in this tournament although I would argue that he's played better than than his critics say and I think also because the opponent and I think all the way through this tournament we've seen a manager that's been prepared to tweak things because of the opponent more than others and I haven't got this in front of me I'm afraid Max and and I don't know if you've got somewhere you can find this but I want to see Mikel Oyarzabell's heat map today because this was the number nine who played right in midfield added an extra body in there loads and loads of the ball and I think it really was today a very conscious thing of saying we're calm we're in control we keep hold of this that's how you beat these guys you don't let them run the counter-attacks on you you don't you don't allow them to have space to go into um and and and i thought that once i mean even after the first goal i thought spainworth were basically safe but once they got the second i had absolutely no doubt at all yeah um a shout for pedro porro who looks to be one of the most popular players in that squad yeah everyone loves him and he's funny he's entertaining he's one of these guys we had him yesterday in the mix zone which was a it's a mad scramble but he's entertaining in those kind of I think he quite likes the idea of sort of seeing a group of journalists sort of scrambling and fighting and trying to get a word from him and he plays he plays with you and he delivered a wonderful line yesterday which of course has been borne out brilliantly today because we asked about you know that that thing of when you're a fullback of where the balance lies and you're kind of playing who blinks first when you've got a really great winger do you try and attack not just to attack but also to force them back you know to make them think oh shit I better go with my winger or do you think hang on a minute this guy's killing Mbappe I'm not going anywhere I'm waiting here where's the balance and he said he said well it depends on the game really he said if you look at the last game with Jeremy Doku I was basically following him all game long I only left once and that was our goal and I've just thought well played sir and that's almost exactly what happened today as well yeah that's great and like they must they must be feeling confident now like you know They've got an extra day's rest, which makes a massive difference.

5:08And they are better than either England or Argentina. Yeah, I mean, obviously they won't say, you know, we're better than these two. I don't even think they will say what they felt, which was that if you beat France, you win the World Cup. But the winners of the World Cup came out of this. I don't necessarily want to ascribe to them an absolutely cast iron belief that the winners of this game would win the World Cup. But I think they felt that. But one of the other things that's been interesting with Spain in terms of the messaging throughout this tournament is a willingness to embrace the idea that they're favourites.

5:41You know, most managers run a mile when you say, oh, favourites, no, no, no. Now, obviously, Luis de la Fuente has done the cliché thing of saying, well, being favourites doesn't mean anything. And people say that and it's not the point. But all the way through, they've kind of said, well, why not? And Luis de la Fuente has been using this line. i'm not sure now max whether it's the last three rounds since the quarters or he's only been since before the cause if he's only been using it since after the cause but he's used a line which comes from a um who does it come from i think it comes from a comedian and the line is ecc and because in spanish yes and if are the same words see although it's pronounced slightly different so and if yes like could it be and why not you know um and what if you know what if we could actually do it and all the way through the tournament they've talked from from a place of confidence in fact one of the few things that irritated Luis La Fuente earlier in the tournament was the fact that around the Spain team there was this negativity and he couldn't quite understand it and I think it was going into the Uruguay game when he said the players are are stung by the criticism they can't understand it and this will drive them a little bit because they're thinking what's wrong with this lot why is everyone so negative about you know the draw with Cape Verde the victory over Saudi Arabia the fact they had to struggle a little bit to to beat Uruguay and that he felt something was coming and I think all the way through this tournament he's had a kind of calm that has said i know we're in an all right place here and obviously they're in a really quite a good place today yeah they are uh oh thanks sid uh have a safe journey home and we'll see you in new york nice one see you in new york cheerio cheers well actually just for the tape that was me and sid but sort of like memento or inception i haven't done that interview yet so we don't know what sid said i have a fair idea spain good france not as good barry um god i don't know what your fearometer is like now Barry you know but I think I'd have rather played France Spain

7:29Max Rushden:were absolutely brilliant um they were brilliant and it's certainly their best performance of the tournament so far and they were underdogs going into this game but that was as comfortable a 2-0 win I think as you'll ever see and Spain were brilliant and not to take away anything from their performance, I was staggered by the number of French players who just didn't turn up. There were bad performances all over the pitch. Chumani, I think, was clearly not fit. Elisa had a bad game. Adrian Rabiot got booked and was, I think he was hooked at halftime, wasn't he? Because I think he was a little bit lucky not to get his second yellow.

8:13Max Rushden:Lots of poor performances all over the pitch. I think France only had two shots on target. one of them an Mbappe shot from an almost impossibly tight angle that was saved by Simon. And they can have no complaints about the beat and dished out to them because while the scoreline was 2-0 to Spain, that was a hammering. We all thought the midfield was the key, John. And we all sort of noticed, you know, Fabian Ruiz, Olmo and Rodri against whichever two the French had. They just couldn't get the ball. No

8:48John Brewin:I think Real Madrid Are going to be unhappy again Because Rodri could win The Ballon d 'Or again Couldn't he They're going to have to Flounce out of the ceremony He was fantastic He was fantastic And This game makes me Do you think As the game closed out Didier Deschamps thought I was right all along That Because they were Undemanding midfield Clearly he didn't have Players of the talent When they went back To winning the World Cup They had you know Matuidi Pogba Gresman would drop in there as well. And Spain just bossed midfield and controlled the game. And Mbappe, Mbappe, as he's called on Foxhawk, was not a factor in the game.

9:30John Brewin:And the hero that we expected and have seen all tournament was not allowed to take any part in proceedings because Spain were so dominant. And let's have a word for Pedro Porra, who, of course, scored a goal, and Marco Cucurella. two players who've made their names by coming to the Premier League almost the hard way you know Kukarela was a Barcelona kid that had to go to Brighton and Poro went to Manchester City and has come round the other way was over in Portugal I think and then goes to and he has been a star of the tournament he's been absolutely fantastic Spurs fans watching him Spence and Romero going what's that what's this all about what is this yes but Spurs have had a good World Cup I mean, Poro, Philippe, is one of those, you know, just such a happy, smiley guy.

10:21Like, he looks like everybody completely loves him. Of course, he did score a goal, so they were happy with him. But his finish, you know, was absolutely brilliant there.

10:30Philippe Auclair:No, it was magnificent. And I'm a bit surprised, of course, that Pedro Poro would have such a great World Cup because the Pedro Porro I know and love is a Pedro Porro I see for Spurs. It's not quite the same kind of player, but there you go. Nothing to be... Absolutely, you can hear that I'm actually quite relaxed after that because I don't think there's anything to be sorry about in terms of the way the game panned out. I'm regretful that we didn't see more from France, But if you remember, we were presenting the group that France was in at the beginning, before the World Cup, we were doing our previews.

11:16Philippe Auclair:And we were already talking about the fact that this French midfield was very shallow, I think is the word I used, and also that we had weaknesses at fullback. Well, at one point, when you meet absolutely superb position, as was the case with Spain, we saw that. but the degree of disorganization in that French team a Didier Deschamps team is something that I haven't seen many times there was also it was both a lack of discipline a lack of organization spatial organization and a lack of despair I was going to say because when it came to about 65-70 minutes you thought there's still time there's still time lucky to be to kneel down to be honest but there's still time to show what this amazing front four can do but you know games are won in midfield, what can you say?

12:17Philippe Auclair:And this one was won by the Spanish midfield and Pedro Porro We won't talk about the refereeing Max. What was wrong with the refereeing? I mean, he was rubbish Was he? He was awful He made absolutely no difference whatsoever and he was very very poor which is not a surprise to anybody who knows his past works but it made absolutely zero difference there is no defense for France to be used as we were robbed or anything like that we were beaten fair and square and we were beaten we could have been beaten by far more than two goals and it's a great disappointment it was always going to be the game in which we would finally see how good that France team was because of the level of their positions the first time they've met a position of that quality and they failed but the amazing thing is that they failed because of a lack of organization which again when you think about the great Didier Deschamps teams and there have been a few organization and discipline was part of it and in this case i mean i was looking at the at the beginning it was quite clear to me okay that's a 4411 all he says just off bapé sometimes staying on the same line something dropping a little bit back when out of possession and then the shape got completely lost it's a bit like you're you're doing a mayonnaise and you're pouring the oil and it's fine, it's working okay.

13:56Philippe Auclair:And at some point it starts to uncurdle, so to speak. And no matter how much oil you're putting or how fast you're whisking the whole bloody thing, it's not happening. And the mayonnaise on Bastille Day didn't work at all. It was really flat. It was just at the end of like a mess of mustard, yolk and oil, but not mayonnaise. And it just didn't work. And to be honest, I was watching this obviously in France with a few friends. And they were all gasping and saying, oh my goodness, do this, do this, do that. I said, no, they can't. They can't. Don't worry. That's the way it is tonight. They won't be able to do it.

14:41Philippe Auclair:It was very, I mean, it was very underwhelming. and very disappointing. But again, well done to Spain for actually being better than I thought they would be. I mean, I don't know if you... I remember, for example, just put that in there, the performance against Uruguay where they really, really struggled against a not very good team. And I didn't see them being pushed to their limits by the French as the Uruguayans had done, which is a that for me is a real disappointment that there was absolutely no way we tested them properly. If I can use the that kind of we the Ian Wright we sure we did we didn't we didn't test them properly.

15:25Philippe Auclair:And even, you know, in the last throws of the game when Ousmane de Belay is, you know, shooting the ball, you know, and it's just, you know, it's I could say, yeah, the keeper has to keep to catch it. But there was nothing really. Yeah, John, we didn't propose anything.

15:42John Brewin:It reminded me of the Euro 2024 final. I remember that Spain just held England. And also Deschamps' selection reminded me a little bit of that Southgate, where Southgate went against his instincts. And it felt like France were playing Phil Foden, Jack Grealish, Morgan's Gibb White, all together at once, just to see if it worked. Is Gibb's White there? What, for France? No but for England But you know There's always this Playing all the tens Yeah there's always this instinct Isn't there That like chuck them all in together And we'll But there is But there is Barry That idea that we We sort of thought about France Before this That you know If Dembele doesn't play well It doesn't matter Because Mbappe will turn up If he doesn't turn up It's alright because Barclay will Or Dua will Or Elise will Or Cherky will And so for none of them to show You know even Even if they weren't playing well You sort of one of them Will just do something

16:37Max Rushden:Yeah and normally It's Mbappe and he didn't today. He caught an increasingly frustrated and forlorn figure as the match progressed. But I can't help but wonder if it will turn out that something happened behind the scenes because it just seems remarkable to me that so many of them could have such an off day. But then Spain gave them very little space in behind in which to operate and that's what France thrive on. But even when Barcola was having not a good game. He was replaced by Due and no sooner had Due come on than he left Pedro Porro completely untracked and unmarked to score Spain's second goal.

17:20Max Rushden:Game over. So, I don't want to harp on about referees, but as someone with little or no skin in this game, I thought the ref was fine. And I'm curious to know what Philippe found so objectionable.

17:35Philippe Auclair:Objectionable, I would use that term. there were some strange decisions, like a reversal of a free kick, which was really weird. And to me, it was very much like VAR intervened when it shouldn't have intervened, saying you've made a mistake, it should be a different thing. I'm also, on a purely almost metaphysical plane, I'm really interested in the penalty because as a friend of mine who is not French said, if Lamin-Yemal had managed to get the ball and scored, the goal would have been chalked off. And which I think is an interesting metaphysical point because to be absolutely honest, it makes absolutely no difference to the game itself.

18:19Philippe Auclair:Well, it was the first goal, so it was very important, obviously. But he was very poor. And there was a lot of play acting as well, which I didn't think was really lovely. But we can forget about that. That's in a way that's immaterial. Spain were by far the better team it was probably the best performance we've seen by any team in the World Cup so far, that doesn't mean they're going to win the World Cup but they were absolutely terrific and I mean so many of them had great games but I'm amazed at the lack of communication between the French players and between the lines every time obviously a French player had the ball trying to build up play there were three, four Spanish players who were there cutting the passing angles on that player.

19:09Philippe Auclair:Normally, you would be able, with a team which has got the kind of technical talent that France has, and normally, with the kind of technical organization you're supposed to have, there would have been solutions. There were none. And time after time, even when they were challenging in 50-50s, if they won the ball, they lost it immediately afterwards. and when you see that when that is happening you know you don't you don't stand a chance no no and actually what's quite interesting John is that you sort of think well if one team has the ball the other team will be able to break but not only did Spain have the ball but when they attacked like you saw it for the Porro goal like the touch from Olmo the movement and there was one move in the first half where was it Olmo backheeled it to Yamal and the other ball had a chance that was blocked wide you know those little sort of combinations that Spain was so much better than France?

20:04John Brewin:I think at this point we have to say how good a coach is Luis de la Fuente because he is Yet to lose a game at the Euros and a World Cup Yeah I mean there was a point I mean when Spain were champions back in 2010 they had a pretty horrible run at World Cups and then he is and then they had Luis Enrique who was a good manager for them but he's managed to harness that team and say Laminya Mal who I still don't think is at his best he's still clearly suffering the ill effects of the injury he had when playing for Barcelona but he makes a contribution and he made use of him and the Luka Dean foul was the reason that came about is Yamal's reading of the way the ball is going to fall and he takes a whack and it's a penalty Never touched him That's a dead leg You could see Luka Dean's look at his face and say oh no PSG's Luka Dean None of us knew that.

21:03John Brewin:We found that out, yeah. I mean, the only thing I would say about the referee that we talked about was his height. Tiny little man. Little man, yes. And he forgot his spray. I mean, I suppose the silver lining, Philippe, is that Gianni got booed when he was on the screen, so that's good. Did they show him on the screen, actually?

21:19Philippe Auclair:because FIFA has made the broadcasters sign up to a pledge that they have to show Gianni I on screens like twice a game. They know it's going to be booed like the hydration break. And did they show it in the stadium as well?

21:40Max Rushden:Well, there is talk that the cutaways to Gianni I, and I really hope there isn't a second and a third along the assembly line. There is talk unconfirmed that the cutaways are pre-recorded and then dropped in, approved by some FIFA lackey and then dropped in.

22:03Philippe Auclair:He cannot be shown being on his mobile phone because it happened, I think, in 2022. And so people cannot, he has to be shown as if he was, as if he were looking intently watching intently what's happening on the pitch. So you cannot possibly cut to him when he's looking at his mobile phone, which is probably about all the time because he's checking his Instagram account. He's sliding into iShowSpeed's DMs.

22:28John Brewin:Yeah, but he's always sat there benignly surrounded by his Praetorian guard of football legends. I think what it is, and we did hear booing on the TV broadcast. I think they showed him. I think what it is is that in the stadiums there are these huge screens. And supposedly, if you're in the, I mean, Barry and I went to the baseball the other day. Everything is about what's on the screen rather than what's on the pitch. So people can see the television pictures and almost the football list is something that's going on below. It's just there. It's just some guys running around. Yeah. Anyway, anyway.

23:01Max Rushden:We were on the jumbotron at the Met and I think I was filling my vape. Right. Kiss Cam. Kiss Cam took a turn. I feel Gianni's pain. I would rather it was me. Did they boo? Did they boo? You sitting next to Mohamed Bin Salman and Carlos Puyol, where you fill up your vape juice. Anyway, look, I guess, you know, Deschamps, he did make the perfect metaphysical mayonnaise in 2018. So, you know, there is a World Cup in recent history. And that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll look ahead to England-Argentina.

23:40Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. so England play urgency it's nice being in the tournament but when you have to think about the game it's stressful but Andy writes according to the news there's an outbreak of explosive diarrhoea sweeping the US if England are triumphant in the final would Barry take a hit of infected lettuce to get out of doing the pod someone sent a message going Mark Langdon had the right idea it's the lettuce you need to avoid Barry or it's the lettuce you need to take will you take an emergency lettuce break glass in case of England victory No, I'm not that against it Okay We did get quite a lot of stick for how we covered the England-Norway game Not that our analysis was wrong necessarily But I think most England fans wanted at least a few minutes of celebrating the fact And obviously we get criticism about everything all the time Yes But when it's Producer Joel said it wasn't an avalanche but a moderate landslide I guess a bit of self-reflection isn't a bad thing I think it's fair to say, John, that we were lower energy when we recorded that pod because it was after the Argentina-Switzerland game than we were at full time when I was jumping all over the place.

24:44John Brewin:Yeah, the tapes are there. The video evidence is there. Run it back and you'll see how delighted we were. Barry, less so. Less so. Packing up his belongings. Hi, Podfans. Max here. Barry's here too. Hello. Global Weekly is supported by Gradient FC. Now, Barry, with the World Cup underway, we know player performance will be under a microscope. from superstars cementing legacies to upstarts vying for big summer transfers. But with 48 teams and up to six matches a day, it's hard to catch every moment. And that is where the Gradient FC app shines. Their player rankings update daily during the World Cup, so you know whose performances are trending up or down on the world stage.

25:24How does it work? Well, Gradient's rankings use the same grades trusted by clubs across Europe's top leagues for player recruitment. Each match is graded by a team of experts who evaluate over 2 ,000 actions per match, not just by outcome, but by execution. So, for example, a completed pass that leads the receiver into danger is graded negatively, while one that puts the receiver in on goal is graded positively. Now, I know you hate making match predictions, Barry, but maybe all that could change at the World Cup with Gradient FC, with head-to-head player comparison tools that show who's best across more than 100 grades in metrics.

25:54It's easy to build and defend any prediction. And here's something else that will appeal to you, Barry. It's free. Fantastic. Explore it for yourself at gradientfc.com or download the Gradient FC app from the Apple Store or Google Play.

26:33Max Rushden:No matter what comes next, you've got free talk and text with the TextNow app.

26:38John Brewin:Download it today.

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26:47John Brewin:But the thing is, and this is a problem with England's games in the World Cup and Argentina too, they're a slog, aren't they? You go through a lot of emotions. And I suppose by the time we got to record, which was late in the evening after the Argentina game, which again was a slog. And there's no harder job in the world than podcasting. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, this is tougher than pulling sheet metal, isn't it? Yeah, it's really tough. But it was, yeah, the emotion had sort of, and we're trying to be analytical, attempting it at least. And the thing is, it wasn't a perfect England performance.