The end for Enzo Maresca and what now for Chelsea? Football Weekly Extra

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30annoyed with the medical staff for telling him who to pick and how long for. One win in seven on the pitch, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe you know the rest. And Chelsea are Chelsea, so it was never going to work. Liam Rossini, a favourite for the job. How will Blue Co-owned Chelsea possibly price him away from Blue Co-owned Strasbourg? Also today, Brentford nil, Tottenham Hotspur nil, Liverpool nil, Leeds United nil, Sunderland nil, Manchester City nil. Still a bit to talk about, Sunderland's unbeaten home record, Thomas Frank getting a wonderful ovation from everyone except the Spurs fans.

1:01What a shame Palace and Fulham scored and we didn't get a clean sweep. Then to AFCON, where Gabon have been suspended by Gabon while the last 16 begins tomorrow. And in the EFL, Cambridge are up to fifth. We'll do all that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

1:20On the panel today from the Racing Post, Mark Langdon. Welcome, Mark. Hi, Max. Hello, Lucy Ward. Hi, Max. And good morning, Lars Hiversen. Good morning, Max. Alice says, have there ever been more panelists than goals before? It's a great question. Well, look, we'll get to last night's football in a second. But let's do Enzo Moreska leaving Chelsea then. Zavard says, feel free to cut and paste the analysis of Moreska's firing by Chelsea from any one of the last 15 times or so. Manager thinks they're in charge, finds out they aren't. Tail as old as time at the bridge. So Chelsea said one of those statements that they always make.

1:57Chelsea Football Club and head coach Enzo Maresco have parted company during his time at the club. Enzo led the team to success in the UEFA Conference League and the FIFA Club World Cup. Those achievements will remain an important part of the club's recent history and we thank him for his contributions to the club with key objectives still to play for across four competitions including qualification for Champions League football. Enzo and the club believe a change gives the team the best chance of getting the season back on track. We wish Enzo well for the future. I mean, it appears, Mark, that Enzo wanted to leave and Chelsea wanted him to leave.

2:27and so that's fine it's fine for everyone well yeah i mean i mean chelsea do this all the time but they actually don't get any worse for doing it um you know there's this belief that you have to have continuity and chelsea just have never really had that stability and it's worked for them you know they they often roll the dice and um you know win a trophy um as maresca did and it felt like this was inevitable you're right um once maresca had started calling people out even they didn't mention who it was um you just felt that that was the beginning of the end and when you're not winning games as well then um it does become inevitable I think it's probably the right decision if if things have got to the stage where it's unworkable and um there's a lack of trust between certain departments um it doesn't feel like you can carry on like that but I mean when Mareska was appointed he was a relatively inexperienced coach and he's got relatively inexperienced players and I think you will get these kind of ups and downs and even as a leader like he wouldn't have been in that position too many times where at Chelsea if you do go on a run it was one winning seven something like that like the pressure does come and he maybe hasn't got the tools to to deal with that at the moment but that's what you get employing somebody that hasn't managed somebody like Chelsea before so I just think that we'll be in this situation probably 12 to 18 months time and maybe they would have won an fa cup or a league cup or qualified for the champions league and um you know everyone will say that they're doing it wrong um chelsea but um i don't know it seems to work for them relatively well yeah and i suppose if you're a chelsea fan lucy the fact that you've seen so many managers sacked and it doesn't seem to have any discernible difference to you winning trophies or not and the fact that i don't think many fans particularly warmed to the football that marescu was playing that chelsea fans will be fine about Yeah, I do think it's a little bit different because this lot above the new owners want to do it in a different way.

4:31They want to be the project, develop and sell, you know, like basically just a trader. They're just trading and it's like snakes and ladders. They sort of get better and get better as the players get better and then they sell and then they got dropped back down again. That's what it seems like to me. But I've read the reports from both sides because obviously both sides have been briefing. It's been quite hilarious, bizarre, really. Mareska's culpable, I would suspect, in some issues, like his subs were poor, he's a bit rigid and slow in the way that he played. But you can't expect a manager to function from the sounds of it and the level of interference that he had.

5:07Something that I read yesterday was about the owners wanting autonomy for the medical staff to say the load for each player, which is absolutely ridiculous in a football club. So you basically got someone who knows about players and fitness to say, oh, he only needs 42 and a half minutes or whatever. I mean, I'm being ridiculous, but that's what they're basically saying. He can only play for 30 minutes. And it becomes an issue if you allow backroom staff that much power. The manager is there to get the information from all the experts and then make a decision because he has got experience and decide then what's going to happen.

5:43and it basically creates silos in the training ground and it's very, very negative. And I would suspect that Mareska has gone, I'm not having this. I'm not having somebody telling me who doesn't really know about football that I can only play a player for that amount of time. And also, I remember the briefing yesterday about him creating that mushroom squad, the bomb squad, being negative all of a sudden. When it happened, everybody was saying how good that he'd separated those players out and the ones that he didn't want. But all of a sudden now that's negative. And I thought that was probably the best thing he did for having a longer period of time at Chelsea, separating players in the training ground and saying, right, I don't want them because there's too many and they're the ones I don't want.

6:28And it's the owner's fault and supporting directors. They didn't get rid of them at the time. But yeah, just the fallout from it. And certain journalists have been briefed one way and certain the other way. And it's unbecoming, really. You say it's unbecoming. it is also quite funny. Yes. It's like when players fight on the pitch and the commentator says, well, we don't like to see this. Realistically, we do like to see this. And I feel like the briefing wars after a big managerial sackings are quite entertaining to observe. I want to focus on the medical staff thing because that's something, obviously, me being a layman here picked up on.

7:06First of all, that's one area where I have some sympathy with Mareska for the way he's handled it because, of course, he's been criticized a lot for excessively rotating. and for subbing off players that people don't want to see subbed off. If it turns out that was under direction from the medical staff saying they can only have so-and-so many minutes, you can understand his frustration for having to be the public face of that decision, for having to sit in the press conference and get killed for having taken someone off after 60 minutes, when in fact he has been told he has to come off after 60 minutes.

7:34And I think, weirdly, even though the focus on this whole thing is that, oh, he was speaking to other people and blah, blah, blah, he has shown a bit of loyalty, I think, there for not throwing the medical staff under the bus. I don't remember him sitting in the presser saying, stop having a go at me for rotating. I've been told I have to do this, which would have been a very human thing to do when you're getting a stick for this. But I am curious about what you said, Lucy, because you obviously know the inner workings of a football club a lot more than I do. For me, being an outsider, being a layman, the idea that the medical staff determine how much physical strain the players should have seems kind of logical.

8:11but you feel very strongly that the manager can never be overruled in this and I think I certainly would be curious to hear more about that and I think some of the listeners might be too. I think that you know that sensible in a football but workings of a football club never ever go hand in hand lads and and I think historically the manager has the final say and without that the players will pick up on anything where the manager doesn't have that sort of autonomy. So as soon as you've got someone else in the club who can say, right, you'll only play 45 minutes, the players just play on it. They know that they go, oh, I'm feeling a little bit, you know, honestly, you have to have one person who says, right, he's playing for a half or whatever it is, 60 minutes.

8:57I'll take him off at 60 minutes. If you keep telling a player that they're not quite fit yet or they're tired, then they will believe they're tired it's a it's a it's psychologically i don't know there's bits where they're injured and they can't play fair enough but they are do err on the side of caution these these these medical staff so they will say a lot less because they don't want they think that they might end up back in the back in the physio room but it's a real struggle of power but players will pick up on anything so if they think that the physio has got a little bit more power than the manager or if the manager says you're gonna you're starting or i'm not gonna start you because of then they will then go to the, honestly, it's a soap opera.

9:36So anything that you think is sensible and common sense doesn't necessarily work in football. I think that the main point about Mareska, I think he's outgrown being a rookie manager, learning the ropes because he's won things. And the Chelsea board and owners want a manager that they can manipulate, a coach that can manipulate, which is why you've then seen Liam Rossini's name come up, who is probably a good coach, but he wouldn't be a coach at this stage in his career where you say, oh, he could definitely manage Chelsea, looking at the managers that Chelsea have had in the past. He won't bluster into Stamford Bridge.

10:16He will be incredibly thankful he's been given the opportunity and they will then be able to manipulate him until he starts to win things and then thinks, hang on a minute, I'm better than being manipulated by owners. so sorry is this the Chelsea cycle we end up getting like they will hire a young up-and-coming manager which they kind of did with Maresco he came from Leicester and and then the second he and at first he accepts all the restraints and goes yeah yeah I met Chelsea awesome good players good stadium huge name good salary and then once he gets them to the Champions League and wins a trophy he starts going okay I'm the man I can start making demands and then they sack him will it be this forever well I mean this is the that's the tricky thing I mean Pattenham said they needed a puppet which is sort of yeah it's good news for fozzy bear or orville but but but i think mark isn't that an issue then if you have a young squad and you get an inexperienced manager and lots of people have said the reason they can't be consistent is they don't have experience in that side then you are actually that project doesn't seem like one which will actually ultimately get real top success chelsea had um thomas tuchel before um like could you imagine say tuchel walking into that situation being told well of course to do by sort of loads of different people like he he's not having that for one second and nor would any of the the really top managers i mean i would just i mean chelsea are 15 points behind arsenal and i think that there was an expectation in the summer whether that's right or wrong that they would be a lot closer um to arsenal and they're only six points spent 1.6 billion pounds yeah so i think yeah they they there there have been some poor results um as well that that go with it that make the decision easier but i yeah I do believe that they want a coach that they can control and where each department is in charge of whatever they are.

12:01And the manager just deals with, with the pitch on pitch stuff. And I would say that most of the sort of big coaches wouldn't want to work in those situations. And then actually Lucy, wouldn't you want to, if you're a Chelsea fan or if you're the manager or the head coach or the man on the grass, whatever they want to give the title to don't we want to hear from some of these other people you know if there are so many people in the dressing room or on the training ground saying do this do that don't we doesn't whoever coaches that team and don't the fans deserve to hear from these other people yeah i've heard things in the past about sporting directors like managers get sacked sporting directors have nothing on them even though they've brought the players in and when you know the the modern structure is a coach coaches the players that the sporting director brings in but then the manager gets sacked for bad results when it may be to do with players but these people in the background will want to have their say but they would definitely won't want to go in front of uh of the media you know the head of medical services won't want to go in front of the media and i think from what i've read as well i think some of the good people that were there at chelsea um since the new owners have come in have sort of been moved out you know academy staff who were there a long time but obviously produced players because Chelsea are excellent at producing players for themselves and everybody else.

13:20They've sort of disappeared so good people who have been there for quite a long time but there's sort of positives to that as well that you sort of freshen everything up but these people who were in the background trying to look after their own little silo and have something to say and then the owners that allow them to do that is just must be an absolute nightmare for Maresco. And I would say that it will have contributed to the bad results without a shadow of a doubt in recent times. Everything that's been going on will have contributed to that. Exciting for the YouTube viewers to see Lars has zoomed himself in to make this very important point.

13:57Entirely accidentally, I might add. There is a good point here, an interesting point about accountability because we have sort of an envy. The British football has started importing this more continental model of you have a clear differential between the head coach and the sporting director who has more long term but if you looked at germany the sporting directors speak the sporting directors do media interviews especially when things are not going well the sporting director will often come out and say like we believe in the manager or we have something going on they're very absent in england now every every clubs will have one and they very rarely come out in front of things in italy they'll speak as well and also in italy you have a history of the club president being quite a public figure often because they're egomaniacs, but also like they also come out and take off some of the flack if they need to and take some ownership over the project.

14:44And I think there's something interesting there about how we've, the structure have been changed so that the head coach is now more of a head coach than an old school manager, but he's still, he's still this sort of figure this that's thrown in front of everything and is the face of the project and everyone else who actually have a lot of responsibility. They're just in the background. And I think maybe that's something to think about and i suppose the other question mark and i'm minded to agree with you that it almost doesn't seem to matter what chelsea do they'll just win stuff enough to be you know one of the most successful clubs i guess in the country but if this is their pro if this is their model which is slightly different to under a brand of it right which was you know high profile manager when something goes like how long do you give a project of young manager young team well i I think they'll just consistently change it.

15:34The first time there's trouble, the easy thing to do is to, particularly if the fans start to turn on the manager, and I think that that was fair, what would happen in this case with Maresca. It's just an easy person to get rid of. Who decided to buy, say, Gittins and Garnaccio this summer when you already had wide players there at the club that would believe that their first team as Neto, you want Esteveo to come in and start playing more minutes, but you've got Gittins and you've got Garnaccio. What are you supposed to do with these players? There's a lack of quality in really key positions.

16:14Goalkeeper, centre-forward, centre-back, the cornerstones of what makes a successful team I think are still missing from Chelsea despite all the money that's been spent. and like they have won trophies i think like if you were to be really picky about it you would say well chelsea like when marino was there particularly but even after that like they were winning the really biggest um trophies and that was the premier league and then they won um two champions leagues as well but they feel a long way off winning the premier league at the moment and arsenal have been through kind of that stability and backed arteta when things got tough um and the champions league okay it's still early days you don't know if they um you know that they might go on to win it but they don't look like one of the favorites at the moment to win the champions league and i think those are the trophies where where maybe you do actually need somebody longer term you need to believe in in something with the manager to you know to go on and challenge arsenal and man city because chelsea are a long way off being able to do that on a consistent basis and if you spend over a billion pounds like you would expect to be challenging i think for the premier league so so maybe there is a a flaw a fundamental flaw in what they're trying to do yeah and actually that sort of depends on what the own how the owners view success lucy because you imagine with that kind of investment that that is leagues and champions leagues yeah i'm not sure to be honest max i just think that it's a it's a it's looking at it on a spreadsheet of how much can we make of the play you know i'm sure esteval for instance which is a great sign in you know you look at the potential he has and that they'll probably sell him for a lot more than they bought him i think that is success to them that's what it seems like anyway i think so and actually and yet lost sometimes they have looked brilliant you know even i mean so the villa game is an example where they haven't looked brilliant for a whole game that occasionally watch them i can't remember a couple of there was once this season where we were like oh hang on maybe the arsenal game or something we'll be like hang on these guys are there is real potential in this team and there is of course huge potential in this team there is so this is the other thing obviously as fun as the briefing wars are about the the disagreements and the things there's also this element of okay and this last pochettino and this is pochettino season before he went they finished sixth in the league but they were fourth on the xg last season they finished fourth in the league and were fourth on the xg i if my opinion counts for anything i I think this is the fourth best squad in the league.

18:46I think if you go through them man for man, I think they're just about like, they're not as good as Arsenal, City and Liverpool on paper. But of the group after that, I think they've probably got the strongest squad for me. So they should be, round about fourth would be a good place for them to be. They're currently fifth, sixth on the numbers. And if you're Chelsea, you've got the same number of points as a dreadful Manchester United team. One more point than Sunderland, two more points than Everton. That's kind of where you are. Is that good? Is that where this squad should be? I feel like no.

19:17So there's also this element of Maresca apparently speaking to City, apparently suggesting he might be convinced to not speak to City if they hand him a new contract, part of the briefing wars. That's something that's been put out there. I feel like playing that card when you're not doing that well seems like a bit of a gamble. I think just based on performances and results and the general trajectory, Chelsea were probably looking at it saying, we're not sure about where this is going. and if the manager picks that time to start like throwing himself around and disagreeing with people about stuff and talking to other people then you make the decision very easy for the guys upstairs I guess Alright that'll do for part one part two we'll look back on a wild night of Premier League action

20:04Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly as producer Joel says who knew dry January would also apply to the football Thomas says was that the worst day of football ever like the absolute antithesis of that crazy boxing day result list i'm just in the premier league efl was pretty good uh tom why are all eight teams vying for that coveted final slot on tonight's match of the day it was a shame in a way that fulham and palace scored because i'd love i'd love just a picture of just four nil nils of the nil nils because we'll do the nil nils first and then we'll go to the goals sun loan man city i think lucy was the best game and actually given that the entire Sunderland squad's gone to AFCON, given who they were playing, and sort of in terms of stoic defending and just, we've been impressed with Sunderland, especially at home for a long time, but this was another real great example.

20:54They knew that there is some fragility about Manchester City and Sunderland played the way you should play against City when you're at home. And they just have this ability, a little bit like Leeds and Ellen Road, to use the energy of the crowd to help them. You know, at times they press the life out of City. At times they then dropped and stopped them from getting through. And they're absolutely brilliant at it. I think really well coached. That's the first thing. Physicality high, which is obviously something that, you know, you've looked at Sunderland's recruitment and whether it's the first choice that have gone off to AFCON or the ones remaining, they have to have that sort of high level of physicality.

21:35And it just shows you that if you've got that physicality, you work hard and you try and be bold, which is what they tried to be. But they needed that little bit of luck, I think, last night as well. But, I mean, yeah, it's great for Sunderland. I mean, I've done a bit of work up there with Sunderland and it's such a massive club up in the North East that you sort of smile at the joy around the place of how well the team's doing. Yeah, I mean, to me, I'm beating at home still. this far into the season and they played 10 home games, Mark. It's so impressive. And of course, City missed, Savino had a couple of good chances.

22:11Harlan, one straight to the keeper, there was that brilliant moment. Almost summed up their defending where Vukhieh, I think, took one in the face from Doku and then it came out and someone else kicked it in Alderete's head. And you were like, this is, you know, that is when, as a fan base, you think this is proper defending. Yeah, and they've played Arsenal now. They've played Man City. they've um you know beaten Newcastle so it's not like it's been a really easy run um a fixture sometimes the calendar can work out that maybe you end up with all of the kind of easy gains in inverted commas at home first half of the season and your record looks false but they've actually taken on the the two best teams um and you've done Arsenal a massive favor as well um last night but it wasn't as if City had loads and loads of chances.

23:01They only had four shots on target. I think they did enough to win the game, City. But it was still a great effort, roting goal. A bit like Matt Sells last year, he just has this belief that nothing's getting past him. And you wonder how sustainable that is. But it's great while it lasts. And I know he's been shouted out a lot, but I think the signing of Xhaka in the summer, definitely one of the um the best of the season you'd be knocking on the door of any kind of team of the the season at the halfway stage his influence on the side is just enormous and um he does both sides of the game um and also just his leadership qualities as well there um just really significant player and when they signed him i wasn't sure he kind of had the legs I would say to maybe sort of still be able to do it central midfield in the Premier League but he's he's so important to what they're trying to do also just must be so rewarding for him like I mean he could have gone off to like Saudi Arabia or something and just kind of knocked about counted his money and played silly sort of park football but instead he sort of made the call to to go to Sunderland in the northeast and try to help them stay up after getting promoted and it's like a huge professional challenge for him and i'm hoping he's enjoying the northeast off the pitch i mean it's a lovely part of the world uh but but on the pitch certainly like he's really lived up to his billing and is doing a great job in midfield and that that must be so much more rewarding for you to have a year or two like this towards the end of your career before you go off and maybe you know make the big pointless check somewhere else the point is as well max is i don't think every single experienced player could do what he's doing.

24:47He's obviously a good player. What Mike said about his influence, I think the most important thing is his influence on others. So when he's on the pitch, he's a manager on the pitch, basically. So Labrie can just think, right, I've given him the instruction. It's loud in here. He can be the one that affects others. And that's when you get to that sort of next level as a player where you're very good yourself, but you make others better and you influence players. But I don't think it's every single experienced player would be able to do that. I think it takes a lot more effort from him and, you know, off the pitch as well.

25:20So real credit to the way he's sort of gone into Sunderland and just embraced everything about it. It must have been hard, Mark, as a Spurs fan, for saying a central midfielder who could do both parts of the game. I thought I was like, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Really impressive as well, Mark, that, you know, they lost six players and they weren't fringe players to AFCON. And they are unbeaten. okay three draw three three draws in a row but they are unbeaten since the players left yeah i expected sunderland to drop off well i expect them to drop off almost as soon as the good results started in august but you know it's particularly at this point i i did think that it would be too much for them and you're getting much uh bigger clubs moaning about injuries and absentees um at this stage and you've seen kind of what sunderland have had to put up with what's it's their own you They recruited the players and they knew that AFCON was happening, so it's not like it was a surprise.

26:10But it's still a lot to take out of your squad. And like I said, they limited City to particularly first half. There was the Haaland chance and there was the offside Bernardo Silva one that was close. But it wasn't like there was loads and loads of chances for Man City. Savinho should have scored, I think, in the second half and they were knocking on the door. but there was a good tactical i suppose game plan really from sunday because you can't you can't run after city for 90 minutes you have to be uh clever in when you do the pressing and then when you sit back and there was uh probably goes back to the shackle thing there but there was an intelligence to the way that they kind of um went off the city at points but then dropped off as well so um yeah a good tactical performance and um you know they'll fancy their chances at white art lane on sunday as well yes uh a nice moment brobby sort of throwing diaz on the floor before shooting straight at donna was good and look quadier almost scored an unbelievable goal and it looked totally intentional that sort of backheel volley that he tried uh you know he has scored the occasional brilliant one so uh i i'm glad it didn't go in but i and i look it's but uh uh still it was a great effort i think for the title race though you know arsenal will be absolutely delighted when they asked when they got a point so like there's no shame in getting a draw at sunderland but still uh it's been a good couple of days for them uh to liverpool then where we start the chat about booze lots of booze at full time i think last what the performance and the result i guess you know it was pretty lackluster producer joel saying looked like a team that stayed up to watch all of the hootenanny which you know i don't believe i don't believe anyone's ever got to the end of it have they um tom says why is slot ball so boring when does a calming presence become a handbrake how many passes back to Virgil van Dijk is too many it's not ticker tacker position it's just slow there's a risk that I'm just being contrarian on this but I watched 90 minutes of this game and I thought Leeds were really good I just thought they were really well organized obviously you'd want Liverpool to move the ball a little bit quicker you want there to be a little bit more movement and you're kind of waiting for Florian Wurz in particular to maybe do a little more in terms of finding openings but at least Leeds kept their shape really well and were aggressive in the challenges without giving away too many fouls didn't allow themselves to get dragged out a position too often and just it's not like there were a ton of spaces that Liverpool very obviously could have exploited I came away from that feeling more impressed with Leeds as defending than exasperated at Liverpool's failure to attack but I have noticed in the aftermath of the game that not everyone felt that way.

28:47Sure. Well, I mean, I guess that is a way we watch football sometimes when we're looking from a particular point of view that we forget, you know, there is an opposition. There are players literally trying to stop you doing what you're trying to do. But it is a really impressive point, Lucy, for Leeds and for Daniel Farker, who in the last few weeks, they've been so impressive, haven't they? Yeah. I mean, he's stumbled upon a solution for the players that he's got, you know, the league that he's playing in and just that sort of changed to 3-5-2. I mean, what I would say is last night, it shouldn't have just been so easy to defend in a 5-4-1 and keep Liverpool out from a Liverpool point of view.

29:25I think that Liverpool made it easy for Leeds to sort of be in that structure that nobody committed a defender. Probably Hecateke did it in the second half trying to get in behind. Nobody made those runs in behind, didn't move the ball quick enough. So I think from a Leeds point of view, they were like, Yeah, it was brilliant. But, you know, Liverpool didn't really sort of test us. But yeah, he sort of changed it to this 3-5-2. Calvert-Lewin getting himself in form and fit has helped loads because at some stage, just before he started scoring, he didn't really know where the goals were going to come from for Leeds.

29:59And that was a real problem. So there's only so much a defence can really defend in the Premier League without it being too much pressure if the forwards aren't scoring. But yeah, they get the ball wide. They put the ball in the box. Setpiece is very strong. They've obviously looked at it in the summer and thought, right, where do promoted teams score their goals? Mostly from setpiece situations. So let's try and make sure that we were as good as possible at doing that. And it's worked. And, you know, I did the Leeds-Chelsea game for radio. And as soon as I saw Chelsea on the pitch warming up, I thought, they're not ready for this.

30:33They are not ready for this atmosphere. and it was as if, why is somebody not saying to them, Leeds fans and Leeds players see this as a rivalry? And the same, I'm doing the Leeds-Man United game on Sunday. If those Man United players are not ready for the effects of the rivalry, then they will just do what Chelsea does. So they've got that power of just a unity at home, but away from home. They were very, very good last night, but I do think Liverpool made it easier for them. And I would, where I would maybe question what I would have wanted to ask Arislot if I'd been in the presser would be, was this a game where it made sense to put Verts out on the wing?

31:16Like, I do accept that Florian Verts needs to do a little bit more, clearly. And he's a very, very talented player. I think everyone watching him can see the close control he has and all this sort of stuff. But when you're playing a team who are sitting back in this sort of shape and who are not allowing themselves to come out and be tempted to open up the game, you are going to have to try to knit through that. And sticking someone with the sort of quick feet of Wirtz out on the wing, and you can watch his touch map from yesterday, he was just out on the flank almost all the time. I'm not sure that gets the best out of him.

31:47And I know there are games where you might be hesitant to have him in the middle because he doesn't offer you a lot defensively. he's not a super physical guy but that's not a big concern in this game because leads aren't trying to come out and make a game of it you're trying to find an opening here and i thought again he you're expecting him to do more but i'm not sure his position really helped him yesterday i enjoyed ekatike heading it against perry's head i mean the cross was it frimpong i can't remember that absolutely hammered it i mean i'm not sure it was a cross so he did well to actually get his head on it um and uh some good humble bragging from arna slot he wanted a penalty Eckerti came out I've been fouled but stayed on his feet and it's definitely an issue that players don't get decisions if they stay on their feet but he said I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that one of my players stayed on their feet it happened against West Ham Paquette should have got a second yellow but one of my players stayed on his feet it's just a team who we are and unfortunately it's not recognized I saw Leeds players going down in the second half the question is should we change or not I don't think we should are they the only honorable side in the Premier League Mark yeah I mean you know these small clubs like Liverpool Arsenal Man City they're always on the wrong end of these decisions aren't they it's so unfair I think there would have been frustration I just think he picked two defensive side really a lot of there weren't enough offensive players on there to impact the game at the start so I think what the what the listener the question the question the listener sort of posed I would agree and I think that in trying to fix the defence that was a problem say about a month ago when that they were conceding too many goals I do think that they've now lost something going the other way I thought they were really poor when they won at Spurs a couple of weeks ago scraped past Wolves and now this this nil-nil I'm not sure that kind of just because they're now conceding fewer goals that everything's sort of worked out well now for Liverpool because I don't think they're creating the the volume of chances that they should be and he had enough attackers on the bench really to suggest that maybe just even one or two more offensive players could have made a difference from the start because once you allow leads to get into a kind of rhythm and you know you want to get after them early really right once they're settled into the game it can become much more difficult to then impact the result i would say talking about shoring up a defense but affecting things going forward to the G-Tech.

34:05Brentford nil, Spurs nil. Simon said, should the FA look at charging Spurs and Brentford for putting on the worst 90 minutes of football in the best league in the world? Dan, if Tottenham swap Frank for a cardboard cutout, would the cutout be more ambitious? I have seen so many League Two games like this. This was bleak from both teams, actually, like an exhibition in giving the ball away, an exhibition in clearances, just sort of being hoofed out for a throw-in. I guess Brentford were marginally better. Romero probably should have been sent off when Thiago was through and Romero just completely missed him I don't sure how VAR missed that and look the big story I guess you're a Tottenham fan is Thomas Frank getting booed by the travelling Spurs fans when he went over to applaud them your thoughts Mark Max you think the VAR has fallen asleep because I was struggling to stay awake for it lost the will to live I can't be bothered here I think in Thomas Frank's head he's thinking that's not a bad point at Brentford they're doing really well at home they scored a lot of goals against Liverpool against Manchester United Hammond Bournemouth like three days ago yeah yeah so we'll go there we'll be really sort of disciplined look to get something on the break and you know the worst thing that can happen here is we get a 0-0 and there's four points over that festive period and then we've got Sunderland at home and we're not that far off top five and he would have then walked over to the Tottenham fans at the end and got a different view on what's going on.

35:38And it's not that game in isolation. That performance has been kind of the default one at home and away, which is why they've struggled so often at home because they've got no way of breaking teams down if it's not from a set piece. The amount of times this season I've seen Pedro Porro sort of open up his body and just call a right-footed pass to the opposition defender um it just happens all the time um like archie gray is a number 10 he was playing center back this time last year now he's playing as a number 10 i don't like i i really like archie gray and he was beginning to develop in that sort of position just i don't know as a six or maybe as an eight but a 10 i don't think that it's fair to ask him to play that position he didn't seem to know kind of what he was sort of how to play that role there's no way of progressing the ball up the pitch and like it's not getting any better so that's why the fans are unhappy it's not oh they've drawn a game against brentford and the shame of that it's that there's no sign of progress um in this team at all yeah he said on being booed they seemed like they were not too satisfied it's fair when we don't hit that top performance overall it's double-sided because i think we need to understand is the acknowledgement of the defensive side of the game we've done excellent today against the team who just scored three against liverpool three against man united so on and so on of course the offensive part needs to be better there's no two ways about that and i suppose the devil's advocate position is lars that brentford have the fourth best home record in the league it's only arsenal city and villa have a better home record than them their home record is better than any away record in the league so this is the fourth hardest game of the season i I mean, it sounds silly to say.