Michael Jackson’s Estate Is Now Worth $2 Billion—This Is Why His Children Still Can’t Access It

0:02Hi everybody, I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me once again is my colleague, Forbes reporter Matt Craig. Matt, thanks so much for coming on.

0:12Matt Craig: Brittany, thank you for having me. You have a new piece out on Michael Jackson's massive fortune, and your reporting explores two stories surrounding the king of pop's wealth. One, it has grown dramatically since his death back in 2009. And two, his kids are claiming that that money hasn't been distributed into a trust that was meant for them. So we're Forbes. I want to talk about numbers first here. What did his finances look like when he died and what do they look like now? Yeah, so Michael Jackson, around the time of his death, his earning power was slightly diminished. Of course, there were lots of allegations about his possible child molestation and also just the way that stars fade slightly over time.

1:00Matt Craig: But his spending remained extravagant all the way to the end. And he was an acquirer of assets. He owned a lot of music assets, including around the time of his death, the music catalog that included a lot of the Paul McCartney and John Lennon compositions. So he had a lot of assets. He was spending like crazy and not making a ton of money. So when he died, there was just under$500 million in debt obligations that he owed. This mountain and mountain of debt, like I said, reputational damage like crazy. and there was kind of a scramble to see if he had a will, what the will said. He died in 2009.

1:38Matt Craig: The will that they eventually validated was from 2002 and it installed John Branca and John McLean as the co-executors of that estate and they were kind of tasked with saying how do we avoid bankruptcy? How do we avoid financial ruin under this mountain of debt? And it's kind of an incredible story. I'm happy to like get into more of the specifics of it but big picture they went from 500 million dollars in debt to now in a state that forbes estimates is worth more than two billion dollars and that includes cash reserves of around 850 million dollars so the transformation here is really one of the more remarkable entertainment business success stories of the last you know decades we track the highest paid dead celebrities every year at Forbes.

2:28Matt Craig: I've been doing it for the past handful of years and in 13 of the 17 years since Michael Jackson's death he has been the number one highest paid dead celebrity in the world. So the job that the estate has done has been remarkable and of course if you're someone that's a critical of the estate which we can talk about one of Michael Jackson's daughters being among them you could say that that success is because of the enduring popularity of Michael Jackson, the music, the shows, the documentaries, the movies, kind of in spite of the management of the estate. However, you can't argue with the fact that the estate is now worth over$2 billion.

3:08This trajectory is just shocking because like you said, his reputation was essentially in the gutter. He was spending more than he was making. And the years leading up to when he died, they were marked by controversy. And at the time of his death, although he was preparing to perform a concert series, he was nowhere near the height of his career. But it wasn't always a common thought that his wealth would accumulate just like it did. That's at least what a federal judge thought back in 2021. So bring us to that thinking. What was that federal judge going through? Paint us a picture there. Yeah, so there has been this extremely long probate process

3:47Matt Craig: since Michael Jackson's death, and I don't need to bore you with all the details, but the normal probate process, which is just validating a will, settling the debts, and distributing the assets to whoever the beneficiaries are, usually, even for a high-profile celebrity, that process can take one to two years. If there's a really complicated estate, like I'm thinking about Prince, who died without a will and had a huge tax bill, unpaid tax bill, and he died, that process took six years. Michael Jackson's estate is still in that process 17 years after his death. One of the hang-ups is how much he owed the IRS when he died, and that required the IRS to value what the estate was at the time of death because they were owed 20 % of whatever that value was.

4:35Matt Craig: So in 2021, so again, we're many, many years after his death in 2009, a federal judge was basically tasked with with figuring out how much the estate was worth at the time. And the IRS was saying it was around$500 million with the assets that he owned and how much his name, image, and likeness, how valuable that was at the time. $500 million. The estate said because of massive debts, all of his assets were leveraged against, and his name, image, and likeness, they said, was basically worthless at that point in time. Their accumulation of what his worth was at that time was$5 million. So huge gap.

5:11Matt Craig: And really, the judge at that time ended up citing more with the estate. The total price tag he put on it was$110 million, which is still that case is ongoing. It hasn't fully been settled yet. But that obviously would bring the tax bill down significantly. So again, just to underscore the crazy transformation here from a taxable value of$110 million to now well over$2 billion and growing. I should also say that there is no reason to believe that the Michael Jackson estate, you know, the entity that is Michael Jackson, is not going to be earning$100 million a year for the foreseeable future. That comes from his music, which is still incredible.

5:53Matt Craig: He's one of the highest streamed artists in the world to this day. He has a Cirque du Soleil show in Las Vegas. He has a musical on Broadway with productions all over the world. And then, of course, this year, the big one, the Michael Biopic, which became a billion dollar grocer worldwide and kind of juiced the numbers, the sales of everything else. So, yeah, it is incredible, you know, that he remains the kind of force within the entertainment industry, even more so than he was when he died almost 20 years ago. We are going to fully flesh out this legal fight. But before we do, I do want to talk about that 2026 Michael Biopic you mentioned.

6:34because in your reporting you say that that movie exemplifies the dispute in microcosm. I want to talk about that because Michael Jackson's estate has generated billions of dollars in the 17 years since his death. And I'm curious, I know that Michael Jackson is this once-in-a-generation entertainer. Is it because of just how talented he is that it's able to accumulate so much money? Is it because of the executor on his estate? Is it because he's making these really savvy and sound business decisions here and really repairing Michael Jackson's reputation? Is it a little bit of both? What does that look like?

7:11Matt Craig: Yeah, no, I think we should definitely talk about the dispute itself with Paris Jackson, one of his daughters, and the way that she has challenged the estate's leadership and management of these assets. But the thing I love about the way you can look at this Michael biopic is kind of as a Rorschach test. You kind of see in it what you want to see in it. You could either say that John Branca and John McClane, the two co-executors. John McClane actually died in May. So John Branca is now the sole manager of these assets. They were producers on this movie and kind of the leading creative forces behind the Michael biopic.

7:54Matt Craig: So again, how much, you know, is it their leadership versus just the incredible popularity of Michael Jackson and his music, which featured prominently in the movie? At the time, you know, Paris Jackson was saying that John Braykett was using this power to kind of cast himself as a Hollywood power player. And, of course, Miles Teller is cast as John Brackett in the movie. So, you know, she's basically saying that, you know, he just wants to have movie stars play him and be a superstar power player. But the story of that movie, the movie's production, is kind of incredible. They shot basically the whole movie.

8:34Matt Craig: It was supposed to span most of Michael Jackson's life and actually take head on the accusations of child molestation and disprove them. that was kind of the purpose of the movie which is kind of incredible to um imagine especially because that's not what ended up happening the producers in this case i mean the estate is uh largely responsible they had overlooked a a clause in one of the settlement with with with the accusers saying that they could never uh portray that person's story on screen and so a lot of footage that had already been shot for this movie could not be used so they basically they delayed the release of the movie for more than a year there was you know a lot of speculation that this movie literally would just never come out and you could say that's mismanagement on the part of the estate you could say that's a catastrophic mistake on their part um and basically the way out of it was for the estate itself to fund additional production on this movie to the tune of more than 25 million dollars some people peg that number up to 50 million dollars in extra production to shoot more stuff for this movie, split it into two parts, make the first part kind of a controversy-free early years of Michael Jackson's life.

9:49Matt Craig: And that is what they did. And it turned out to be an amazing choice because this turned out to be a billion-dollar movie that now will spawn a second movie, leading to more paydays for the estate. Also, the fact that they invested money into it meant they had a larger stake in that financial success. So where do you come down? Do you say that they made this huge mistake, they had to make a risky bet, it happened to pay off because Michael Jackson is popular and people wanted to go see his movie and see his music on the big screen? Or do you say it's a masterstroke of management that the estate took a larger financial stake in a winning bet, essentially, in a big movie that now will spawn a sequel?

10:31Matt Craig: So that's just, again, in microcosm, the kind of incredible controversy and success that has always followed Michael Jackson. Those two things kind of have gone hand in hand, certainly in the 17 years since he's passed. I think based on your reporting, Parrish Jackson would fall on one side of that argument and the estate executor would fall on the other. because despite this estate generating more than$3.5 billion since his death, one of Michael Jackson's children, his daughter Parrish Jackson, says that the family trust remains unfunded. And there's currently a really ugly legal fight playing out right now over the distribution of his fortune.

11:14It's not as simple as I'm going to describe it, but essentially what it boils down to is Parrish Jackson is saying she wants hundreds of millions of dollars from the estate to be transferred to the family trust, And the estate executor is saying he still needs to manage the assets because of these unsettled legal and financial matters that are playing out still. So paint us a picture of both sides of this legal dispute.

11:37Matt Craig: Yeah, I'll try to simplify it as much as I can. And I think you did a pretty good job, which is that when anyone dies, this probate process is meant to settle debts and then distribute assets to whoever the beneficiaries are. In the case of Michael Jackson, he left 20 % of his fortune to charity, and the rest would be split between his mother, Catherine Jackson, who's now 96 years old, and then his three children, Prince, Paris, and BG. And as they enter their 30s, so, you know, all the assets could go into a trust for those three kids. As they enter their 30s, it would be distributed to them, or they would be able to access that trust one-third at age 30, then one-third at 35, and one-third at 40.

12:21Matt Craig: none of them are 30 years old yet uh prince jackson's 29 bg is in his early 20s paris jackson's 27 28 so none of them have reached that point yet however um because there have been so many outstanding debts and kind of significantly this tax bill with the irs that i was mentioning uh all of the assets or most of the assets i should say uh remain in kind of the the estates coffers, essentially. They have not distributed the vast majority of the assets into the trust. Basically, you know, Harris Jackson is saying that John Brantka, the estate executor, is hoarding those assets in order to kind of maximize his control of them, you know, saying that basically they have to come to him for whatever amount that he wants to give as part of a living trust.

13:15Matt Craig: and he is maximizing his power. However, the state would say that they need to have money in escrow because we don't know exactly what the final tax bill would be and they're taking care of these beneficiaries. They say that they've already distributed$200 million to the beneficiaries. Paris Jackson says that that's not true. Of course, on the other side, she says that the law firm that John Breaker works for has requested$109 million in compensation for the combined years of 2023 and 2024. And they say that's not true, that that's too much. So we've got, you know, accusations flying left and right, being refuted left and right.

13:55Matt Craig: But the irony is that, you know, the kids will be generationally wealthy. They're going to be entitled to probably more than$500 million each. and John Branca, after this probate case settles, is still the trustee of the trust that the money would be distributed into. So he will still maintain the same control, whether he's the executor or the trustee. And so it's a little confusing to me because Harris and the children will still be entitled to their fortune. And John Branca and his law firm will still be getting management fees that make them, you know, wealthy in a much smaller scale. So it's kind of a heated dispute with no loser.

14:42Matt Craig: Everyone here is kind of winning. And it's just a fight over the degree to which and the timeline on which either side will win. When I was reading your piece, that's what I was thinking, because I was like, wait a second. Branca doesn't get kicked off once this is all resolved. then why not just resolve it? And I think the question I have, and it's a simple question, probably has a more complex answer, would be how much is this IRS bill and can't they just settle it immediately? I mean, Michael Jackson's estate has been generating billions in 17 years. Could an IRS bill be that big, be bigger than that?

15:18What does that look like?

15:20Matt Craig: No, I'm actually glad that you mentioned this because I didn't get a chance to go into it in too much detail in the written story, the initial request of the IRS was to say that there was a$500 million outstanding bill and a penalty of$200 million on top of that. So$700 million. That would help you explain why, you know, this massive cash reserves that the estate has, they would not want to, you know, distribute that because then they wouldn't have the money to pay that tax bill. However, with the, you know, negotiation that I talked about in 2021 and, and kind of like the valuation of the estate and the way they were able to, um, talk that down, you know, that tax bill could be somewhere in the order of like$20 million, you know, in which case they have more than enough money to partially distribute.

16:08Matt Craig: The real issue here is, and the, the, I guess, irony, um, is that it's just the red tape of the court system that slowed this down. There is a kind of a handshake agreement in place between the local IRS, the people that actually would do this, and the national IRS office that would need to approve the final amount. And because the Trump administration has fired a lot of the IRS employees, it's kind of one of those things that's just slowed down in the court system. They can't really get someone to look at the case. It's really almost as simple as that. That ruling with the IRS was in 2021. It's five years later with a handshake agreement in place, and they can't really finalize that.

16:53Matt Craig: And it's really just the slowness of bureaucracy. I don't think it's like an amount of money that the estate couldn't pay. I really think it just comes down to kind of like, you know, the incompetence of big government and, you know, having a hard time settling that estate. I think it will happen at some point, probably, you know, relatively soon, next year or two years, you would think. And like I said, after that point, not a whole lot changes for the Michael Jackson estate, which is interesting to me that there has been, you know, so much legal petitions and public statements and kind of fighting over money that is going to end up where it's going to end up.

17:35Matt Craig: And it's really just a matter of time. Do you think we're seeing those headlines and those statements because they want to try to speed this process along? Because I can only imagine just how long it takes to settle a really complex probate process. But like you said, Prince's was pretty complex, and that took six years. Now we're 17 years, a little over 17 years since Michael Jackson died. We're still seeing this slog of nothing really settled. I know you're saying there is red tape, but is it 17 years' worth of red tape? Does Parrish Jackson have this point that the executor is slow walking, that there is what she described as persistent incompetence?

18:13Does Branca have a point? What does that look like from your reporting?

18:17Matt Craig: I just don't see I've talked to, like, you know, experts in probate law. I'm certainly not one, but the folks I've talked to said that there's kind of very little incentive for Brankett to keep this case in probate because he would continue to receive management fees after the fact. So that's hard to see. But I can also see how, you know, you have a lack of transparency, perhaps, or information. And as things move along, 17 years when you were not expecting that, how you could start to convince yourself that, you know, it's never coming. That the money is just being tied up on purpose. And you can start to, you know, demonize the people on the other side.

19:04Matt Craig: And so I guess I don't know fully what the dispute is on either side or what the full slate of facts are. I only have what has been in legal filings and then in my reporting. um but yeah i think it is fair to see what has happened the hold up and say something must be wrong for it taking this amount of time something must be mismanaged because it's a relatively unprecedented uh process and therefore someone must be you know responsible for the fact that i don't have my money yet i think that as she's approaching age 30 and you know her siblings are approaching age 30, that's becoming kind of a more desperate feeling.

19:48Matt Craig: I can definitely see that. I guess I just don't go so far as to say, why create this massive stink? Why run up millions of dollars of legal bills and create this conflict over it? That's where I'm more confused. Once this legal dispute is all figured out, will anything change on the business side for the estate because it's been making money hand over fist millions and millions a year, whether it be from streaming, from other content like the Broadway show, like the Cirque du Soleil show. Once the legal thing is all taken care of, will that change in any way? Functionally, no. At least as it currently stands, John Branca will be the trustee of the assets, so he will continue to manage the ongoing businesses.

20:36Matt Craig: At some point, we just don't know how long will that Cirque du Soleil show run, how long will the musicals run before they start making less and less money and then get canceled, as with every single show. There are other things that can create additional income for the estate, for example, the second movie that I mentioned, or they've talked about doing kind of like an Avatar digital concert show So that, you know, they could, I don't know, would that be in one location? Would that tour around? But that's another thing that could make money. They could do, you know, theme park rides. Like, there are other ways to exploit the IP.

21:13Matt Craig: And I think that John Branca, as the trustee, would continue to try to do that. Historically, like, there is no precedent for an artist maintaining the popularity this long. You would think over time he would become less popular, that people would, you know, want to listen to his music less, would want to go to these shows less. The kind of incredible thing about Michael Jackson as a celebrity figure, as a musician, is that there just has not been an end to the interest in him personally, in his family, in the people running his estate, and in the music, in the shows, you know, in his life. And so as long as there is that level of interest, sure, you could continue to prop up new businesses, new business lines, and continue to make tons and tons of money from it.

22:00Matt Craig: Certainly that's what the estate will try to do. It's just, we just don't have a precedent for something lasting this long. Why do you think that is? I know we talked about it a little bit, but I want to dive a little deeper before I let you go of what makes Michael Jackson, so his legacy so enduring. I mean, is it that talent? What does that look like to you? Because I mean, I'm still struck by the fact that Forbes is on its annual highest paid dead celebrities list each year. Every year since he died, aside from four, he's remained number one. So with stars not dimming, and I'm still remembering, I mean, I'm old enough to remember all of the controversies that plagued him leading up to his death.

22:42Matt Craig: Yeah, I mean, not only that, but, you know, there was the Leaving Neverland documentary in 2019. Like there have been additional controversies after his death. There literally was another case going through the court system last year that was ordered into arbitration in August around another assistant, Frank Cascio, and his siblings who were accusing Michael Jackson of abuse. So the controversies haven't really ever stopped or slowed down. And yet, if you were to look at the earnings of the Michael Jackson estate on our dead celebrities list, 2019, that year, the lead neverland it came out there was a little bit of a dip of course there were like a lot of uh places and sponsors who dropped him it dropped his music his music was taken off commercials and things like that 2020 there was a dip you could say further fallout from that or just the the pandemic and the way that that affected really any musical artist and then 2021 2022 2023 23 continuing to climb back up um so it is again like i can certainly tell you the music is awesome like he was the most famous person in the world um you know the talent is undeniable all these things but there have been other talents that are undeniable there have been other people whose music is incredible that have a catalog it is really kind of like defies all logic that uh michael Jackson is still, I mean, according to the data provided to us by Luminate, his album equivalent unit sales for his music in the past year, 4.6 million album equivalents, was more than any, you know, all but three artists that Forbes tracks current artists, Taylor Swift, Drake, Kendrick Lamar, and then Michael Jackson was ahead of any of the other artists that are currently recording.

24:32Matt Craig: And so it's kind of incredible. If you were to look at his earnings each year, more than$100 million, he would be, you know, I don't know, on any given year in the top 10 highest earning entertainers of any kind, actors, musicians, things like that each year. So yeah, I mean, I can point to the fact that all you need to hear is that baseline of Billie Jean in the trailer of the Michael, the first trailer for the Michael movie and everyone getting pumped to go see that movie and it becoming a blockbuster. But, you know, the Elvis movie only made like $300 million worldwide. You know, um, the straight out of Compton only made a hundred million dollars worldwide.

25:13Matt Craig: Just there is something, some special magic sauce around Michael Jackson that everyone can't get enough of. And, and it is hard, hard to explain and has never really been permanently affected by the lawsuits, the accusations, or the controversy. Well, I appreciate your reporting, you breaking down the numbers and the stories behind them. Matt Craig, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, Brittany. Always a pleasure. Love coming on with you.

25:57Thank you.