The Leadership Strategy Behind PacSun’s Resurgence

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0:40It is the season for seasonal drinks at McDonald's. The power of pause and a really important decision. It's probably best to take that pause because, well, it can lead to better decision making. Those words stuck with one CEO who fell in love with fashion at age 15, and now she's running the most iconic brand, or one of them, in the entire world. Talking business with Brie Alston, PacSun CEO, Union Enterprise Zone at the NASDAQ.

1:13Hello, everyone. It's Jabbar Young, senior writer at Forbes, Union Enterprise Zone at the NASDAQ. And I have a special guest, Brie Olson. She is the CEO of apparel brand PacSun, one of the more notable brands in the world in the fashion space and currently owned by private equity group Golden Gate Capital. Brie, I know this is not your first time at the Nasdaq, so I have to say welcome back. Thank you. You're very welcome. It's so great to be here with you. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming all the way from California, too, to get here. Of course. Wow. She said she was on a flight at 1 o 'clock in the morning.

1:43She got here. Now, I appreciate the time. Before we get into business, how's the family? How's your boys? They're doing great. One boy, one girl, 14 and 11. Yeah. So what's that like? They're giving me a run for my money. What's it like having those teenagers running around? It's wonderful. I mean, they're one more touch point when you think about having access to information about young people. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I do that all the time as well. Like I always ask my daughter, hey, what type of music are you guys into? What's this? What's that? So, you know, you can kind of use them as a guide in a way.

2:16Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, here we are at the stock market. I have to ask you, 2026, right? What's your soundtrack to business? What's keeping Brie motivated as a CEO? What's in your ear? So, A$AP Rocky. A$AP Rocky. Of course, your creative director, of course. Yes. And he is also a huge household name. So, my 14 and 11-year-old also love Rocky. Yeah. And we love Olivia Dean. And so, I would say there's a full repertoire. But I mostly get to listen to what the young people in my home are listening to. That's right. So that means a lot of Cardi B and all that. I thought you would say Rihanna right after ASAP Rocky.

2:55I love Rihanna. Yeah, yeah. You walk into a third grade class, Bree, and they say, well, what do you do, Ms. Olson? How do you explain your role to a third grade class? So the way that I explain my role is I'm in service ultimately to the customer. And so that starts in our stores. That's all of the digital touch points. There really, there aren't boundaries or traditional boundaries when you think about it. And as a steward of the PacSun brand for almost 20 years, I feel like I've had so many roles within the organization. Ultimately, how we show up to the consumer, whether that's at a store visit or checking us out on the TikTok shop, is the measure of success.

3:38And so if I were to explain it to a class of third graders, I'd probably tell them I get the unique opportunity to wake up and do what I love every day. I have had a passion for the retail industry and clothing. As you said in the intro, since I was very young, I got my first job working in the stock room of Banana Republic at age 15. And so it's been with me this entire journey. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, listen, that's a perfect segue, right? You update on the brand a little bit, PacSun. Of course, the Pacific Sunwear of California, a longtime brand founded in 1980, began as a surf and skate type apparel.

4:17At one point, more than 600 stores throughout North America did go through some bankruptcy proceedings in 2016, but transitioned into more of a fashion, music, arts, sports brand. And here as we sit in 2026, estimated sales or sales reached$970 million in 2025, something that you had mentioned. How's the business going? We're doing well. Yeah. I would say we're continuing to stay on pace with our accelerated growth plan and very pleased with the ability to open up new stores in the U.S. We opened up 10 stores last year and 10 this year. We've got 300 stores today. You're right. At one point during my journey with the brand, we had exceeded 1 ,000 stores.

5:02And so there were some decisions we needed to make in terms of restructuring, cultural reorganization, shift to our real estate portfolio, and a transition out of traditional surf and skate into reaching a more broad view of lifestyle for what we speak to, which is the Los Angeles, California lifestyle of music, fashion, art, and sport. Yeah. My daughter has never been to California, and I was very, I am not saying this because you were here. You've got to bring her out. But I told her I had you coming up, And she says, oh, PacSun. I forgot I have to go grab me some stuff. I said, well, what do you know about PacSun?

5:40And she's all they make clothes that I like baggy and colorful. And I was so surprised at age 12. She was dying to get to a PacSun store and gave me all the reasons why. Right. How do you kind of look at that? Because you have these young individuals that are all of a sudden interested in a brand. And that's something that I remember listening to previous interviews you did. That was a focus of you guys a while ago to focus more on the young consumers because these are your new buyers of the next generations. Yeah. Gen Alpha is our future consumer or cohort. And so it brings so much joy and gratitude to hear that 12 year olds are eager to shop PacSun.

6:18And I think we've put a lot of efforts in, whether that be through partnerships with Roblox or the launch of PacSun Kids in 2021, that have had intentions of creating a clearer road or path for consumers to experience PacSun at a young age and have that brand affinity early. And then we've done a ton of work in terms of research. The Paxson Youth Council, which is comprised of 14 young people between the ages of 12 and 24, that don't come in. They don't act like a focus group. They actually have the intention and the work is cut out for them to come and help advise myself, the leadership team, our board on strategies for the future.

7:01and those are very intentional moves in terms of bringing this younger generation to have a real seat at the table and to co-create the future of PacSun with us together. And that's very interesting to say that because listen when I was young coming up and going walking to malls I would always walk right past PacSun because it wasn't targeted for me like I was more into streetwear and culture but here it is my daughter now is interested in PacSun so I would say that's quite the turnaround from a brand narrative perspective right and you kind of cover it in your book, Co-Creator a little bit, authored by Forbes Books, right?

7:33I have to make that known. Forbes Books has authored this, but, you know, the cultural strategy that redefined PacSun, take me on the inside of that kind of shift, that pivotal shift and how you were able to help this brand become more culturally relevant instead of just focusing on the two segments, meaning surf and skate. So listen, 20 years ago when I joined the brand and even 15 years ago or 10 years ago, PacSun was seen as a retailer. We didn't carry a single piece of product that carried the PacSun name. Now, 50 % of our product that we sell online and in stores is branded PacSun. So PacSun is the guy or girl's favorite pair of jeans.

8:18It is their favorite cozy hoodie. And that was the first really important shift. The second was to acknowledge and to give credit to listening to the consumer in more meaningful ways. So when there was movement or less affinity for surf and skate, we needed to coalesce and build strategies that really honored listening and lifestyle and bring those to life. And so we started with partnerships with Kendall and Kylie Jenner, introducing a new view of fashion. We had a 10-year partnership with them. We entered into a partnership with Jerry Lorenzo, Fear of God Essentials. We have a partnership with The Met or our partners with Formula One.

9:01And so bringing to life sport, music, fashion, and art in really meaningful ways for the consumer. And that helped us shift out of being a retailer into being one of their favorite brands today that celebrates youth culture in genuine and authentic ways. Yeah. Well, looking at how you guys again. I remember listening to this story and how Barnes & Noble was able to reinvent itself. At one point, Barnes & Noble was considered a zombie company, right? They were closing stores left and right. Nobody's seen any growth for them. The pandemic gave them an opportunity to rebrand. Obviously, the stores were shut down, so they were going and redesigned.

9:38And now you have Barnes & Noble opening new stores in the U.S., right? And so that was a phenomenal turnaround. You guys are similar to that, right? You closed a lot of stores during that bankruptcy period, but now here you are opening new ones. I believe 75 you had mentioned over the next three years. What are you guys seeing from that footprint and expanding? Is that still smart in today's society, being as though that people are e-commerce and online? Although I think the American shopping malls are picking back up again, but what are you guys seeing from the footprint and how not to expand too much?

10:08Yeah. So there is a return or a desire to shop from the young consumers today. And we see that in research. We see that in feedback loops. And they want a third place again. And so I think we have to be very fluid. However, there are so many changes happening in terms of consumption and understanding Gen Z, but also Gen Alpha and their preferences, social shopping, live shopping. Those are all new and interesting. It is super important to have a real estate portfolio that reflects being where your consumer needs you. So if we identify great malls where there is high consumer demand and we see also that we have an important digital footprint there and there is a void in that market, that's a market we're going to go after that's supported by data and customer feedback.

10:57We also, last year, our mall foot traffic was up double digit positives. And so when we're seeing PacSun outpace the mall itself, I think it's important to also acknowledge that there's a real return there. At the same time, we've built things such as the PacSun Community Hub, which is intended to kind of be a co-coalition of community, technology, creativity, and also help solve for social platforms and opportunities in the future for them to create their own small businesses. And so the PacSun Community Hub is really intended to be the next step in terms of what commerce looks like and the open creator economy.

11:42And so I think these are all things that we're balancing when we think about the growth of the brand. Yeah. Well, what do you see from American malls? I mean, you just mentioned, again, I see a lot of young people. I'm still a mall goer. I like going to the mall. I like trying on my clothes. I know we're in a different era in video that matters. But every time I go, I see just teenagers walking through the mall and I'm like, oh, well, this is very interesting because I thought American malls, they were dying. But here we are. It seems like some sort of revitalization going on. Do you see that as you travel throughout malls to see if there's opportunity for PacSun to return?

12:14Absolutely. I think there was rhetoric that malls were dead, really kind of 2019, 2020. And then we saw a very strong resurgence. And so I think we're paying attention to those cues. Young people are going back to malls. They enjoy shopping live in the moment. There's also immediate satisfaction to being able to touch and feel product. And so we are seeing a return to mall. And so we're looking at that acceleration, physical stores, the actual digital footprint, and then also this whole space of live shopping and the creator economy. Yeah, I love it. What's it like being CEO of a brand like PacSun?

12:53I think for me, it's a huge privilege. And I love being in service to young people, my teams, and really having the opportunity to lead with purpose. I think that it's been very rewarding. And so I feel like it is a real privilege. Biggest positive surprise? I mean, positives and negatives of all roles. What's the biggest positive surprise of being CEO? I think the positive surprise is actually the accountability. Because in the end, there's all of the decisions kind of ladder up and you get to have responsibility. I thrive off of responsibility. And so that's a real strength to be able to look at the accountability, whether things are challenging or things are going really well, to have that accountability, be able to sit with myself and our leadership team is very rewarding.

13:49Yeah. How about the biggest negative surprise? All right. Positives and negatives. What's the biggest negative surprise. Yeah, I think one of the things that's been more challenging being owned by private equity is access to capital and seeing such strong strength in the brand and having a path of self-funding limits your opportunities in the more immediate and short term. As opposed if you're a public company. Absolutely. Yeah. Did you learn anything about yourself writing this book? I learned a lot. I think the process of writing a book and having the ability to pause and reflect was very interesting, and it piqued my curiosity more.

14:28And I often think in 10 or in 20 years, if someone were to write a book about the chapter we're living in now, how would they reflect back on the decisions we're making today? And is our decision-making criteria, our purpose for the organization, our values for our leadership team, are they creating the consistency that we'll need to continue to build and thrive with strength? Yeah. You had a quote, and I really love this. You said, leadership is the ability to inspire purpose. And purpose is so core to our happiness, both personally and professionally. Leadership is the ability to inspire purpose.

15:04You said that on a podcast in 2025. I really love that quote. Elaborate on that again and how your leadership style is, you know, kind of is just about that, inspiring people to be more purposeful. So I think first and foremost, I believe that we're all on a journey of continued learning and curiosity. The more that you continue to push yourself to learn and to adapt, you become a stronger leader. And so that's kind of step one. And step two for me was when I took the role of CEO, I did a lot of internal purpose work myself. And I was heavily inspired by a book by Bill George called The True North.

15:44And it comes with a workbook. And I would argue that the workbook is even more instrumental and can inspire more change than the book itself. Why is that? Because the workbook forces you to put your own words down on paper. And it asks you some fairly jarring questions about your existence and what are you really doing in the world and are you being true to your inner purpose. And then it goes on to make an assertion that your personal purpose and your professional purpose cannot be separate. And so it pushes at the things that actually drive you and it puts you into a question in terms of are you delivering on your core purpose.

16:25And so I have gifted that book to most of the members of the PacSun team, and it's inspired them to do different work. And it ultimately led to us redefining our purpose and our reason for being, which is to inspire the next generation of youth and create community at the intersection of sport, music, fashion, and art. And so you can see, you know, in that statement, we're not talking about selling clothes, although that is an output of the work that we do, inspiring creativity, individualism, self-expression through the way someone might dress. And so it was cumbersome and difficult to get our board aligned to our new purpose.

17:08But we actually used customer testimonials to help showcase to the board and to our leadership team how important this is. Because when you talk to young people about why they love PacSun, they say things that have feeling. Like, PacSun makes me feel the most seen. I feel safe within their space or their stores. I feel my most expressed in their clothing. And those are things that are highly inspiring and motivating for a leadership team. And when it comes to retention and understanding what it means to lead with purpose, those have been big unlocks for us in terms of how we want to lead, how we want to manage, and how we will have a holding position and a staying power with young generations that will stand the test of time.

17:56Yeah. Well, listen, you learned that leadership from somewhere, right? You grew up in the San Diego area. Your parents were educators. Mom, elementary school teacher. And your dad left the business world and became a physical education teacher. What was that like for you growing up in the San Diego area? And what did you learn from your parents? My parents have taught me that education ultimately is the most valuable resource that we have. And it's free. And you can have access to libraries, to even with AI. one could argue that there's more access, and you can have a coach or a tutor if you didn't have access before through some aspects of AI.

18:37And so I think knowledge is power, and curiosity is something that they instilled with me at a very young age. The love of reading was also something very important in our family. My sister has gone on to be a Rhodes Scholar. She's a cultural anthropologist specializing in genocide. So my family came from a background of deep caring, deep empathy, and a desire to give back. And so to be able to merge my love of retail and fashion with also a desire to give back to young people is something that I think has served me very well. And I have a lot of gratitude to my family, my parents, and my sister for being raised in that environment.

19:20Now, again, you said, you know, back in age 15, you were working at Banana Republican. What would you tell your younger self, right? Take me back to that back room you said, maybe stocking or something like that at Banana Republic. What would you tell a young Bree about navigating corporate America and what to do and what not to do? I think the most important thing is probably something that my father taught me about your work ethic is, you know, work hard, do the job. don't complain, keep your head down and be your best self. And so I think, you know, if more people really understood the value of just getting the job done and doing it with a good attitude, and it's really important to pick something that you're passionate about because you're going to put a lot of work into it in your career.

20:10And so picking something that you love naturally allows you, I think, to have a much happier life. Yeah. And then you attended UC Berkeley, mass communications and business, right? And also you completed that advanced management program right at Harvard. Bree, that's a$95 ,000 program, right? I mean, I look at, was it worth it? And why? I mean, because that's a huge fee to pay to get into those programs to continue to educate yourself. So I think first and foremost, going to a public university in California was important to me. and I think that access to the public school education system is very important.

20:47My parents both worked in public education and so I loved the grounding of what I learned at Berkeley. Yeah. And then I went and did my master's in Italy and so I got to see a more global view and spent several years working and living in Italy which exposed me to a whole new culture and way of working. I think after almost 15 years at PacSun, I noticed some habits that the leadership team had of thinking in a sea of sameness. And so we would all agree at the table. We all got along really well, but I didn't feel like we had enough new ideas or enough inputs from the outside. And actually a few members of our private equity board had been familiar with the Harvard program.

21:35And one of the reasons it was interesting is that 80 % of the people who attend come from all over the globe. And so you're introduced to these new industries, people from all over, and there's abundantly different perspectives and ways of approaching the same problems. And so a nine-week program in person, living back in the dorms, was just what I needed pre-COVID to really change my way of thinking. And I think it was another example of the power of pause and really investing in education and curiosity and challenging my own thinking and my own habits so that I could come back to PacSun and introduce some of those ways of thinking and addressing problems or challenges or opportunities differently.

22:26And so it was a very good investment in my point of view in terms of what I needed at that point in my career. Most people don't stay 20 years at a company. I've been able to do that because I took a few opportunities to really ensure that I was thinking differently, being exposed to different ways of approaching things. And also the international element really had huge value. Yeah, well, paying it forward, right? What would you tell that young executive, that young Brie, maybe that's in a company and she's looking or he is looking to move up and transcend? What would you tell them about staying within the company and making yourself more valuable?

23:04Because again, packs on for 20 years. Most people go on to new things. What would you tell that young executive? Yeah, I think if there's opportunities to excel within an organization that you're already familiar with and that is familiar with you, you will get chances and exposure to areas that you might not get from the outside. So I took on e-commerce, marketing, things that I didn't have direct responsibility for prior within a company because I knew the ins and outs of the company. And so there was a lot of value of moving up in a company, you know, that's familiar to you. At the same time, I think the best thing I ever did in my career was actually moving to Italy and working internationally.

23:46And I really encourage people to take those leaps when they can, because that type of opportunity really forges different ways of thinking. And being able to live and work in a different culture is something very valuable when you bring it back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, again, you mentioned move to Italy. You learned Italian and Spanish, right? You were put in that world, worked for brands, J.Crew, Valentino, Apricrombie & Fitch, and then again, 20 years at PacSun. If you had to sit back and think about that young Bree again in that room, Banana Republican, that stock room, falling in love with the business at age 15 to here you are now at PacSun.

24:28An author, right? You beat me. I'm a writer and you already got a book. One word to describe your career journey. What word would that be? Curiosity. Curiosity. Why curiosity? Because I've always been curious about the customer, the community, the business, the people. And I think as you're looking to evolve in your career, if you remain highly curious, you will unlock really important steps to the future that you can't do with just passion alone. Love it. Get you out of here on some fun stuff, right? Bree, if I gave you 10 grand right now, what's the first thing you invest in? PacSun apparel?

25:06What would it be? PacSun. That was an ollie hoop for you, right? Your superpower. What is Brie Olson's superpower? Vulnerability. Vulnerability. Wow. Elaborate on that. I would say that's my superpower today of being able to share and be my whole self, irregardless of the situation. And for many, many years, you're given a certain view or ideal of what an optimal leader looks like. And oftentimes people find themselves trying to mirror or, you know, emulate that type of behavior or that leader. When in the end, I think the best leader you can be is being true to yourself, your value system, and who you actually are.

25:54And for me, that took a great deal of vulnerability. And so it's a superpower, not because it's something I was good at before, but it was something that took a lot of courage for me to lean into to bring my whole authentic self to work every day. Outlook, right? You look at the fashion business today, right? There's a whole bunch of brands out there, but what do you see? We have wars going on, high gas prices. You know, a lot of young people I may encounter may not find the jobs out there because AI is impacting things. And so that's impacting their buying power, their spending power. What do you see in the business today?

26:30Are you guys facing any headwinds, tailwinds? Is sales continuing to peak up? I've seen that the young consumer has been very resilient and they are constantly reinventing new ways, even within the economy. Look at the amount of young people that have become creators themselves, that are now making TikTok videos in their bedrooms, but earning affiliate commissions, that are now spokespeople for major businesses. So I think creativity, even in the face of AI, will continue to win. And I think that we have to focus on human capital and what needs to shift and change within that celebration of human capital with the acceleration of AI.

27:16So I'm optimistic for the future, in particular for young people. And I do recognize the challenges that are being faced and that we are presented with every day. But I think that these younger generations, Gen Alpha and Gen Z, they give me a lot of hope. Because when you talk to them, they are incredibly independent. They are very courageous. I think they're one of the most courageous generations that we've seen. And so I think they will forge a path forward and they will surprise us all. Yeah. Well, how's PacSun using AI? What are some of the things you guys are doing? Yeah. So we established an AI council about 36 months ago, and we have AI across almost all facets of our organization.

27:59But I would say from an operating perspective, heavier on allocation, planning, management of the back end and resources, we have been more tepid in terms of the use of AI on the creative front. So we have kept it out of the design piece for now. We're really celebrating the uniqueness of our designers and that being, you know, a real signature language where we don't want to emulate or look like something else, even if it's trending. And so I think having our four pillars of music, fashion, art, and sports also helps create some clarity for our teams. And then understanding our purpose as an organization has also created clarity in terms of use of AI for our teams.

28:43Yeah. You are still a big believer in the word diversity. I mean, we're in very divisive times right now, but one of the core pillars that you mentioned in, again, other interviews is that diverse thought, right? Having Aesop Rocky in the room, having Selena Gomez in the room, is PacSun still a believer in diversity? Absolutely. It is a core pillar for PacSun. It is a reflection of our community, And it is absolutely a way that we will co-create today and moving forward. Gitchi, how do you own two last things? The first is co-create it, right? If someone has not read this book, right, why would you tell them to go and purchase this book and read it?

29:20And what will they learn? I think co-creation goes hand in hand with purpose. And I think there's a unique question you can ask yourself in reading the book. irregardless of what industry you're in, what you're inspired by is, can you co-create without purpose? And can purpose exist without co-creation? And co-creation is the concept of putting the community first. It is the opposite of what we've been doing in the past, where a brand dictates to the customer what they are going to want. It's about building the future of your brand alongside your consumer as opposed to for them. And so I think it really applies this philosophy to all industries.

30:05I also think when you think about Gen Alpha and Gen Z, which are the future consumers for everyone, irrespective of the industry, there is so much that is going to have to change for your brand to be resilient and to continue to have staying power in the eyes of these younger consumers. And so this book is for them. Love it. Get you out of here on this. Good to Great, my favorite business book from Jim Collins, Good to Great. What's the difference between a good fashion brand and a great one? I think a great fashion brand has customers that love the brand, that it serves a purpose outside of product and gives an association or a personalization a reason for belonging and is participatory.

30:53Brie Olson, sweet and short. I love it. I love it. Author of co-created Forbes books. I work at Forbes and I haven't even gotten my book yet, Brie. Congrats on the book. Best of luck the rest of the year at PacSun. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Brie Olson, CEO of PacSun here at the NASDAQ Enterprise Zone. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening.

31:39The Sausage McMuffin with Egg