Cornell Frat Bros Alleged 'Damage Control' Attempts Are 'Really Damning': Sexual Harassment Lawyer

0:00I'm Serena Williams, and I'm healthier on Rho. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP-1's diet and exercise. On Roe, you can access GLP-1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. Go to roe.co slash journey to see if you qualify. 14 to 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2 % to 3.1 % in placebo arm. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to roe.co slash safety. Observe the North American dad, 50s, great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana.

0:38An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling, no hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. On Tuesday, Cornell announced that Sally Yates, a former U.S. Deputy Attorney General, has been selected to lead an independent review of the university's response to sexual assault allegations involving multiple former members of a fraternity. A former student known as Jane Doe filed an explosive 101-page lawsuit against the university and others in September, alleging that in October 2024, she was drugged and gang-raped at the Chi-Fi Fraternity House.

1:27Following the lawsuit, the university released a statement saying it had previously conducted a quote, thorough Title IX investigation into the alleged incident. Within weeks of Jane Doe's lawsuit being filed, New York Governor Kathy Hochul appointed the state's Attorney General Letitia James as special prosecutor to lead a criminal investigation into the allegations. James promised to quote, review the facts, gather evidence, interview witnesses, and if warranted, pursue prosecutions. Sexual harassment lawyer Megan Thomas joins Forbes True Crime to discuss the developments.

2:04Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a reporter here with Forbes. Joining me now is sexual harassment attorney Megan Thomas. Megan, thanks so much for joining me. Thanks so much for having me, Brittany. Before we get started, I do want to warn our viewers and listeners that the conversation we're going to be having contains shocking and graphic sexual assault allegations. This month marks nine years since the Me Too movement went viral. And nine years later, a story about shocking sexual assault allegations is continuing to lead the news. In September, a former Cornell student sued the university and others, alleging she was gang raped and drugged by members of a fraternity at the school in October of 2024.

2:46She claimed the university failed to not only prevent the alleged assault, but also adequately respond in the aftermath. And you're a sexual harassment attorney, so I'm really curious, when it comes to the law, when you think about where we're at now, what do you make of this moment, and what has and has not changed in this post-MeToo era? Yeah, great question. So, So, you know, my heart goes out to this woman. It's so upsetting to see these things still happening, as you said, nine years later. But sadly, what I see in my work every day is that we do have so far to go. So you asked what has changed.

3:21During the Me Too movement, there were some important changes to the law, specifically to the workplace law. I deal with a lot of workplace sexual harassment. Before 2019, in order to have a sexual harassment case in New York State, the conduct had to be severe and pervasive. As you can probably imagine, that is not okay, right? The things that we're allowed to go through were not okay. That is an unacceptable standard in my opinion, but it's still the standard in much of the country. Here in New York, now the standard is anything more than a petty slight or a trivial inconvenience can constitute sexual harassment.

3:57So that's an important change to the workplace law and sexual harassment. But in terms of what we're seeing here on this college campus, we have noted there have been changes to Title IX. There have also been, there's been more public outcry. So that's why this case is so shocking. but I will tell you unfortunately I see every day in my career people who are being sexually harassed and assaulted in ways that you wouldn't think was still happening so sadly you know this is still going on. And then when you're looking at this case specifically from your view and perspective as that type of attorney what do you make of these allegations of what allegedly transpired that night in the early morning hours and then in the year since?

4:42So, again, something that we see frequently is when the spotlight is not on an institution, they're not always doing what is right. Now, we don't know for sure all of the information that Cornell had or all of the information the DA's office had, but now we're hearing the DA saying, I'm going to look back into this case. Well, why is that? It's because the spotlight's on it. Similarly, in my work, we'll see things, allegations of sexual harassment and assault being swept under the rug. And then we put a spotlight on it. Maybe we file a lawsuit or we send a demand letter and suddenly, you know, it's reopened.

5:15But that's only because of public scrutiny. And before you and I came on to have this conversation, I want to talk about some news from Cornell, because like you said, there has been a lot of public outcry, not only at what allegedly happened, but how Cornell responded in the aftermath. And the university announced It's bringing on a former deputy attorney general, Sally Yates, to lead a, quote, comprehensive independent review of how the university prevents and responds to sexual harassment, sexual assault and related misconduct on campus. What do you make of that announcement? And typically, what does that type of independent review really mean?

5:54Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglis?

6:31Reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EpGliss. Before starting EpGliss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EpGliss and visit epgliss.com. Or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now.

7:11Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. So this type of independent review usually means, again, that the entity is in the spotlight and they want to show to the public and also to their internal stakeholders that actually we are taking things seriously. Either we have been or we will going forward. And so that's what this person will come in and do. She will come in. She'll have a team. They will really seek to study what would occur in the past when there were allegations of sexual harassment or assault and what should occur or what the university can do better.

7:52So I think that this is a win for the university, and I hope that other universities will do something similar because we're already seeing more news coming out of other universities. This kind of stuff is not isolated to Cornell, and so everyone, frankly, should be doing this. And then when it comes to this Cornell case specifically, days after this lawsuit was filed, the Tompkins County District Attorney, he said he was reopening an investigation into the alleged incident. And he said, hey, back in 2024, we got a dramatically different statement than what that 101 page really bombshell lawsuit alleged.

8:31And last week, though, New York Governor Kathy Hochul, she appointed the state's attorney general, Letitia James, as the special prosecutor in this case, because Hochul said that she, quote, lost faith in the Tompkins County DA's ability to fairly oversee it. And James said she stands ready to lead a process guided by the facts and the law. And she said that they're going to review the facts, gather evidence, interview witnesses, and if warranted, pursue prosecutions. You're a sexual harassment attorney based on everything we know so far about the investigations, the potential evidence, the allegations.

9:06Do you think there are going to be charges brought up against any of those people named in that civil lawsuit? I do. I don't necessarily think all of them will have criminal charges brought against them, but I do think some of them will. I think certainly this will go before a grand jury, I think. And what happens there is the grand jury gets the evidence, and they determine whether or not there's enough to move forward. I do think that will happen with at least two of the individuals who are accused. It remains to be seen. Some of them are, more of them could be prosecuted as well, but it, again, remains to be seen.

9:44And I know, like I said, there was that difference between the 2024 statement to what was said in that lawsuit. And according to some of the records and documents that other outlets have reported on, Jane Doe apparently said there were gaps in her memory. she seemed like there was a trajectory in her thinking of she felt initially this shame and embarrassment as to what happened to eventually coming to the realization that she believed she was sexually assaulted and one of the men according to the um according to the documents into the investigation he apologized to her for how things went down is how he said it and he said that he and another frat brother of his felt bad that they were too intoxicated to shut it down and kicked people out before it got way out of hand.

10:32She said her memory was super clouded. They were all under the influence. And at the end of the day, none of that sexual stuff was illegal. And honestly, she said she really liked being with him and one of the other guys. But then a few weeks later, it seemed like her tone shifted in how she was talking to the men she accused of sexual assault. She said she came to this realization that she was gang raped. How does that play out in if there is a criminal case? Yeah. Yeah, that will play out, frankly, the criminal case and the civil proceeding. So we see this all the time in our practice. Sadly, you know, when someone goes through something so traumatic, they try to bury it and they try to minimize it.

11:10They don't want this to have happened. She doesn't, she didn't want this to have been real. Right. And again, we see that every day. And when people start to process, they start to remember more. They start to piece things together. Sometimes it's easier for someone to think, what would I say to a friend if this happened to them? I tell my clients that all the time. So perhaps in the moment she said, I can handle this, you know, it's not that big of a deal, but then she started to realize, wow, there's more here. Again, this is what could have happened. I don't know for sure what was going on inside her mind, but I can tell you that people process trauma in a way that is very analogous with the way that her statements came out in terms of minimizing it early on and then realizing it was more serious.

11:51And sometimes we see much more time go by frankly, than just a few weeks. we see a year, two years, even more go by before someone is really ready to come forward. And as an attorney, what are you looking at as potential pieces of evidence? Obviously, anyone who's been following this case has seen that alleged Snapchat where one of the men accused here said free. I'm not going to say the word, but the word starts with a P. And it looked like he was inviting, he was telling other men in his fraternity where to go, where she was. There's other recordings, it seems, of phone calls that the Jane Doe had with at least one of the accused men.

12:31As an attorney, what's the strongest piece of evidence in your eyes? Yeah, there's a lot of strong evidence. But I certainly think that statement saying free pee is really damning. That is not consensual sex. That is someone who's saying, you know, basically come and get it. This person is incapacitated. In my mind, again, that is what, that's how I read that. I think that piece of evidence is very damning. I also think it's really damning the way they all tried to cover it up after, again, allegedly, and the damage control that is coming out now. I don't think that looks good for them at all.

13:07And then, I mean, at least on my timeline and so many others, when you're scrolling through social media, this is just completely flooding everyone's feeds. so many people have different takes, have been spouting their takes on the alleged incidents of those nights, of that night and that morning. But from your perspective here as an attorney, what do you think are maybe perhaps some misconceptions on this national conversation? Things people could be missing, things people should consider. What do you think in all of that? I think a big misconception is that this is kind of a freak thing and an isolated incident.

13:46And sadly, again, I don't think that's the case at all. I think that the reason that this case has really resonated with people is that so many of us could have been or were her. And that's why everyone's saying, you know, I am Jane Doe. And I think, you know, this, so many women have dealt with similar things. It's been swept under the rug, or they were in a dangerous situation that didn't go as badly as that. But we need to stand together. And frankly, we need men and women to stand up for victims of crimes like this. And so, again, I think that the big misconception is that this is an isolated incident.

14:21Sadly, I think it's an epidemic. And what are you specifically looking out for next? Because I know that the special prosecutor, Attorney General James, she's going to be investigating this case. How long do you think that would take? What would that really look like? Because all eyes are on what could come next. Yes, such a good question. I've thought a lot about this because all eyes are on this case. I think it will go a little faster than it normally would. But I do think we're going to look at them having a certain amount of time, hopefully not too long, maybe two or three months to look at the evidence and then bringing a grand jury in to determine whether there's a case to go forward.

15:00To me, those are the most likely next steps. Megan Thomas, I really appreciate your legal perspective here on breaking down this story. Thank you so much for the time and you're welcome back anytime. Thank you so much. Take care, Brittany.

15:40to get your home holiday ready. Find furniture, hosting essentials, festive serve wear, and more all in one place. So you can spend less time getting ready and more time enjoying the season with the people who make it special. Shop wayfair.com today to make holiday magic at home. Wayfair, every style, every home.