When AI Becomes Management | Fortune Daily

0:02Kristin Stoller: A computer can never be held accountable. Therefore, a computer must never make a management decision. That could be a quote from last week's debate about the safety of AI, but actually it comes from an internal IBM training page from, wait for it, 1979. 79. Yes, we were having these debates even then, because back then the tech industry, of course, knew that computers made work simpler, but it also knew that they couldn't be trusted to make the judgment calls that we humans can. And today, of course, we are grappling with the same issue. According to Fortune editorial director Kristen Stoler's latest piece, AI is running a mock in certain workplaces, specifically when it comes to complex HR matters.

0:57Kristin Stoller: So recruiters are drowning in AI-generated applications. AI note-takers are recording the wrong meeting and circulating the notes to the wrong people, which if you've experienced it, is a complete nightmare. And the org chart as we know it may be getting completely thrown out the window as AI agents start to access company systems, spend money, and yes, actually make management decisions. I'm Ellie Austin in a stormy New York, and this is Fortune Daily.

1:34Kristin Stoller: Kristen, thank you so much for joining us. So I want to pick up on a few of the issues that you have been covering in your weekly HR newsletter that you write for us, because Because we're hearing all these big promises about AI changing the workforce. But actually, you've been finding that AI is stumbling, particularly in a lot of human resources matters. I want to start off talking about hiring. So we're hearing that candidates are using AI to write their resumes and applications. And then companies are using AI to screen applicants. How is this going? And who is winning this weird AI arms race?

2:11Yeah. And the sad thing is, Ellie, I don't think anyone knows who's winning right now because you're getting slop on both sides, right? It's slop coming in, slop filtering slop. And it's like, what can hiring managers do to actually get quality candidates? So that's been the big question right now. A lot of HR leaders are trying to come up with creative ideas to still be able to use AI to help hire, but also to get to those candidates who are the most quality.

2:37Kristin Stoller: And you spoke to a company called Warp, which is an AI people management platform. And they've come up with an original initiative. Tell us a bit about what they're doing. Yeah. So they were facing that problem. They had so much AI slap coming in. They couldn't weed out who was the best. And their chief people officer, she noticed that the best hires that they had recently were coming off of people who would comment on their executives' LinkedIn, loving what they posted, asking how they could get involved. And they were making great hires. So she thought, okay, what if we incentivized all our employees to post on LinkedIn?

3:14Therefore, we'll actually have humans interacting with our employees and getting the best quality candidates from those interactions.

3:21Kristin Stoller: And do the employees, are they posting job postings or are they just posting generally about their work at the company? Good question. They are posting generally about their work in the company, but it's pretty open. They're allowed to post anything from a challenge they're facing, a win their company has, or just commenting on something on the news and saying, and here's how it relates to what I do here at Warp at My Job. And the best part is, for as many times as they post, they're entered into a raffle and a lottery. And then once, I believe it's once every month or once every quarter, I can't remember, but they pull a ticket and then they get a couple hundred dollars from it.

3:55Kristin Stoller: And is it working for them? Are they finding that new candidates are being funneled their way? They're saying it's working really, really well. They've made 30-ish hires all from these referrals from this program recently. They love it. The other interesting thing, which I'm not sure that I completely love, but they are offering a Claudebot to help employees write these posts and having the Claudebot read all of their passwords and come up with something to help them post on LinkedIn. That makes me a little nervous, but they say it does work for them. So AI is still very much in the loop. Still very much in the loop.

4:29Kristin Stoller: You mentioned a bit earlier, Kristen, that when companies are opening job applications, they're being bombarded with AI slop. What does that look like in this context? Because we know about AI slop online and on Instagram and things like that. What is it in the hiring process? Yeah. So what I believe, there's a couple of different ways to look at it, but I think the most prevalent one is people will look at a job description. They'll feed the actual job description into Chat2PT, Claude, and then say, come up with a resume or come up with a cover letter. And the resume and the cover letter will basically just take all the keywords and feed them all into it.

5:02So it's not unique. Everyone has the same resume and the same application if you're doing that.

5:06Kristin Stoller: So what are you hearing from hiring managers right now that really makes an applicant stand out for them against this backdrop? It's really, and this is not going to be a surprise to you, what makes us human, right? It's the interviews, getting your foot in the door. So having those human referrals as a way into a company has always been the best way. But here it takes on a unique lens, right? Because you're getting your foot in the door, you're getting a human interview, and that's where you have to shine. And I've had a lot of debates with HR people, and we've talked about this too, saying, is the cover letter dead?

5:36Is the resume dead? Because if AI is generating them, who cares? And the answer is maybe, because it all comes down to the human relationships.

5:43Kristin Stoller: And in a way, what Warp is doing is asking its employees to become influencers on its behalf, which we're seeing other companies like retail companies do as well. Another issue you've been writing about a lot is companies reducing their human workforce and expecting AI to take over a lot of those functions. What are you hearing about whether or not that sort of gradual morphing of the workforce is working? Yeah. So I've been having a lot of dinners and meetings with HR leaders. A lot of them are saying that narrative has kind of been in the past. You know, that was maybe the narrative last year.

6:16this year it's not so much about reducing headcount, it's more about changing roles. And I think the big thing that they're wondering is like because they're changing all these roles, it's really the entry level and the talent pipeline at the bottom that's really going to be affected.

6:30Kristin Stoller: When you say changing roles, tell me what you mean. That means like, for example, if someone who is in an HR recruiting position, they used to go and have to search for people, filter people out, book interviews, do all those tasks that were really like low man on the totem pole type tasks. AI is doing all that. So now what do you do with that person? You train them to maybe go out and sit at talent or career fairs and be that forward-facing person. So you give them, give the scheduling, the annoying task to AI, and then push them into kind of a different type of role. And you were saying about entry-level jobs being particularly complex.

7:05Kristin Stoller: Tell me more about that. Yes. So entry-level roles, it's like because people are doing the scheduling, those annoying tasks, what do you have entry-level people do? A big thing people are doing right now is apprenticeships. So they come in, they do a circular kind of program within a company, sitting with a lot of different functions, learning a lot of different things in the company, and then kind of seeing where they go once they're in their third year and putting them into a bigger role instead of immediately hiring them for one specific entry -level role. And what say does the young person themselves have over which function, which department they end up in?

7:37Yeah, for a lot of companies, I don't know that they do. That's the interesting thing. And I think that's another reason why, and this is very similar to the AI debate that's happening, there's a lot of pressure on young people to go into those skilled trades, plumbers, electricians, data center engineers, things that you can really take advantage of and make a lot of money right now. And you have more of a say of what you do, but you might not need a four year degree.

8:01Kristin Stoller: Mm-hmm. Also, there's a general, I would say, like disillusionment with corporate America that we're seeing, particularly among Gen Z. So I'm sure that plays into it. A hundred percent. If you were coming out of university right now, trying to get a foot on the job market, what would you, having this sort of 30-something-year-old Christian knowledge and insight that you do as a result of your job, what would you be prioritizing? And maybe which industries would you be lasering in on? Okay. So I'd really be prioritizing from just a logistics point of view, networking. It has never been more important to go to those job fairs, go to the happy hours, go everywhere where you might need a person in person.

8:38That has been the top way I think everyone gets a job these days because it's so hard online. Industry-wise, it's tough because every industry is being disrupted right now from media, as we know, to pretty much everywhere. So I'd say, I try and remove the stigma in your mind around the skilled trades because they are they are where all the giant salaries are for young people and for years it's just been you know no one's going to tell their kid go be a plumber but you really should think about it and I think we as a society have to change how we think about those jobs that are really like the the pillar of society

9:16Kristin Stoller: yeah they are the pillar of society yeah um HR departments I imagine are grappling with a whole new set of weird complex situations. For example, AI note takers appearing in every meeting on the screen, often without an invitation, and then sometimes circulating notes from meetings to people who should not be the recipients of those notes. We've seen the odd situation happen like that here. How are HR departments adapting to this whole new sort of interpersonal challenges that they are now facing as a result of AI? Are they having new trainings? What does the future look like for the HR department?

9:58So in January, I spoke with some lawyers who actually deal with advising HR leaders on how to deal with this. And their thought was, you really should not be using an AI note taker in a meeting unless it is incredibly necessary. If you and I were just - What's necessary? I think necessary is if it's like maybe a big client pitch meeting and you know that no one is going to be staying on the call after. You need detailed notes that a human just couldn't provide. But I think if it's like, you know, a regular team meeting or a one-on-one, if you and I are sitting in a conference room, there's no need for an AI note taker.

10:32So they are advising people to kind of audit what meetings need them and what don't and err on the side of don't if they don't think it's necessary.

10:38Kristin Stoller: Got it. Okay. So don't send it just because you can't be bothered to turn up to the meeting, whack your note taker in instead of you. Exactly. You have a part of your newsletter, Kristen, where people can submit their own questions, office-based questions. Yes. How do they get, and then they're solved by a professional. Yeah. How do they get those questions to you? Yes. So I am encouraging everyone, if you have a crazy work crisis or a wild workplace story that you just need some advice on, we all do. And it's anonymous. It's anonymous. You can go to my newsletter. It is a link there where it says, submit your stories here.

11:11And we're going to put the link to the newsletter in the show notes. Thank you. That would be fabulous. submit it online. And I welcome all of them. And I actually have HR professionals answering everyone. So it's a chief people officer or chief human resource leader. And if you're interested in being one, then they can also reach out to me as well to answer them. Kristen, thank you so much. Thank you, Ellie.

11:33Kristin Stoller: Kristen, thank you for sticking around. So there was one other thing I wanted to ask you about. So I'm sure you saw this headline that last week, and I have to say this story made my blood run cold. A senior banker at Morgan Stanley sent an email to clients with a list of over 100 live deals attached. Yes. The banker obviously tried to recall the email. I don't believe that worked. And blurred versions of the deals ultimately ended up on social media. What was your reaction when you heard this? Oh my God. I was like you. I was just like chills. Like this is, if that happened to me, that's my worst nightmare.

12:07And I think so many employees have situations like that. I've had, I'm sure you had where I meant to send something to someone else and then I send it to my boss on Slack.

12:15Kristin Stoller: Does the recall button on emails work? I've only done it once. It's worked for me once, but that is a terrifying situation. And in this day and age, anything can be screenshot. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I think I remember a boss saying to me, early on in my career, don't put anything in writing. That A, you wouldn't be prepared to defending court and B, you wouldn't be okay with seeing posted widely on X. Yeah. Okay. So that is a pretty massive office fail. Give us a couple of others that you've been hearing about in your newsletter recently. Oh yeah, Ellie, I get all the juicy stories from my newsletter.

12:50So the one that I had today was someone wrote in to say that they sometimes stay late after work. And when they do, they've noticed some of their leadership going into a conference room and cracking open some beers, having some wine, frequently. And, you know, they're a little uncomfortable. They were like, is this normal? And I think the reason they were mostly freaked out was a lot of it were HR leaders. So they were a little concerned, how do you address something when HR is the one who might be the problem? So that was interesting. And you asked an HR expert for advice and give us a brief summary of what she said.

13:27Kristin Stoller: Because also there's a question as to if you're allowed to have alcohol in the workplace? Yes. So what she said, her advice, and this is the chief people officer of the payments company Remote, the global software company, she said, you should first immediately check your handbook, check your company policies, see whether drinking on premises is allowed. If it is, then you really don't have too much recourse here. If it's not or if it doesn't say, there's other people you could go to besides HR, right? There's the legal department. There's your own boss. there's a couple different people who could help you decide how should we approach this but if it makes you uncomfortable it's definitely something you shouldn't ignore Kristen thank you very much of course thank you Ellie that's it for fortune daily I'm Ellie Austin please remember to like subscribe to the show and if you have any office fails or questions for Kristen HR related leave them in the comments below this episode and she will get back to you also a reminder that you can listen to the show on Apple and Spotify I'll see you tomorrow.