Bet on Yourself, Build a Growing Business with Neil Cooper

0:00The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses, and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Mark connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success.

0:35Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, reveal the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they've learned. Join Mark and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun. Now, let's dive in. Good morning, America. How are you? We are here living during exciting times. That's what I was thinking about this morning. And in fact, I've mentioned before that I'm a big user of affirmations or what I call I am statements. And when I do the radio show, I always do it on the car on the way in. I listen to a little voice recording of myself and I repeat them.

1:14And one of the things I say is we are living in exciting times. And I'm all about being in discovery and learning new things and new ideas. and not everybody would say these are, well, they're exciting times. I don't think you can deny that. It depends how you look at it. But I believe a lot of good things are happening and are in the air and all that kind of thing. We have an election coming up in the U.S. And I don't talk about politics on the show. I always talk about the fact that I don't talk about politics. But we're going to talk about politics for a second only as it affects business. So my guest today is Neil, and I'll formally introduce Neil in a minute.

1:53And in the studio, we also have Mary McCorvey, who we're going to record a show with her today as well. And Mary is an author and multiple company founder and entrepreneur and veteran. She's got a very interesting background. You'll hear more about her on her show. And I'm going to ask, I'll ask Neil first. I'm going to reverse the order how we usually do it. But Neil, given that there could be a big wave, big change. And actually, I'll just mention this real quick. I was listening to the Michael Smircona show on the way in this morning. I think he's a very middle of the road, as he says, stuck in the middle, commentator on politics.

2:36And he had a guest host in today, and they were talking about the impact of the 1946 election, which occurred when Harry Truman's popularity went from like 80 % in a year down to like 32%, mainly because of economic conditions, which is a lot like what's going on prior to this election. And so there were big changes, and I didn't know about this, but the impact of that, there were three people in history, and I won't get into the whole story, but that really made a huge impact on American history, and they were Richard M. Nixon, John F. Kennedy, and Joseph McCarthy. And among other things, Joseph McCarthy became, we all know about the McCarthy hearings and all that and what he did, but his lawyer who he elevated to head his investigation over Robert F.

3:30Kennedy, who was assistant counsel, was Roy Cohn, who later became advisor to a current president and really had a lot to do with his approach to politics, business, and life. And so it's very interesting. And so we have that kind of election that could make a difference potentially. And it's interesting to think, what I was thinking about was what kind of leaders could emerge from this election. So given that, and that's all I'll say about politics, but what are the kind of issues, Neil, that you see? And Neil, by the way, is an entrepreneur, founder of a law firm. We'll talk about that in a minute.

4:05but what kind of impacts, where are the issues that you see it could impact the effects of a national midterm election like this? Yeah, lots of important issues right now, Mark, and good morning to you and good morning to Mary. It's great to be here. Great to have you. Yeah, I see, I mean, there's a lot of topics, AI regulation and how that's going to evolve is on everybody's mind, data centers. Tariffs, of course, is an ongoing issue. Taxes, whether that could change or not going forward. Interest rates, not necessarily a political issue, but to some degree a political issue. Government regulation, of course, and government involvement in various industries beyond AI and software and social media.

4:56And then there's so many other topics that could impact the business environment. What happens with the Supreme Court? What happens with the Senate? What happens with the ongoing conflicts around the world? And they all impact doing business and the business environment. Great, great comprehensive answer. There's obviously a lot of, it's going to be interesting to watch the impact on a lot of different levels. Mary, any other thoughts on that yourself? Well, I really appreciate what you were saying, Neil, about the impact of AI. And I would love to hear a little bit more about that and as to how it's impacting your firm and your bringing attorneys into the firm and growing them in this new environment.

5:46Once we get through Neil's story, let's bring that question up again. So let me introduce now Neil Cooper, who is founding partner and executive partner of Royer Cooper Cohen Braunfeld. And by the way, Neil's here not because he's an attorney, because I know lots of attorneys, and usually I don't have a lot of attorneys on the show. Nothing against them. I'm one myself. But we look for founders and entrepreneurs. Neil's here because he's an entrepreneur. And when you hear his story, he almost didn't come back to practicing law. He almost did some other things. So that's just interesting to note.

6:22But when he founded this firm, he helped grow from eight attorneys in 2012 which is only 14 years ago to more than 85 today. So I refer to them. I hope this is a proper characterization, but I think you've got to be one of the fastest growing law firms in the Philadelphia region, I would think. Yeah, and we were actually named that by the Pennsylvania Lawyer magazine. There you go. I didn't know that, but I assumed it. So he has spent his career advising middle market companies, emerging growth companies, startups, investors. So he's an entrepreneur who advises entrepreneurs to a large extent and also executives on business formation, fundraising, strategic transactions, and growth.

7:02Neil provides strategic guidance to his clients and also brings a firsthand perspective on the decisions and leadership demands involved in building a business. So it's a lot, and you do a lot, I know, because you're a very busy guy. And I know Neil pretty well, and you see him around town at all kinds of things. So again, welcome. Neil, tell us your story, because when we talked about it the other day, I didn't know. and I've known you for a long time, but I had a sense that you might have entrepreneurialism in your blood. Turns out you do. So tell us kind of about your formation story and how that came about.

7:36Absolutely. So it's definitely my blood, Mark, going all the way back to probably the 1930s when my great-grandfather started his own retail men's clothing store, and then he passed it down to his children, who were my great-uncles, and then through them and her cousins, my mother, absorbed all of that. And in the 1970s, when she was a single mother with two kids without support, she needed to find a way to make some money. And she launched a business out of her bedroom closet doing fashion and retail for women. And she took women to New York and she made some connections in New York and it grew super fast.

8:19And we moved to a bigger place so that she could have a dedicated room, dedicated to the store. And then it kept growing and growing to the point that one day the local zoning authorities came knocking on the door saying, are you running out of a business out of a residential place? And she said, I am. They said, you have 30 days to move it somewhere else. And she did that and she moved it to a bigger location, which was a big risk for her, but it kept growing and growing and growing. She did it for about 30 years. And then my dad as well had his own entrepreneurial business with food retail stores and malls and had about 10 locations at its height.

8:58So you were surrounded by it. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And so talk about how you made the decision to go to law school and how that came about and then sort of your beginning legal career. And then you took a kind of different path for a while and then came back to the law in a sense. Absolutely. So when I was in college looking at what to do, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but figured that I was really drawn to a combination of law, business, and government. I studied government as an undergraduate. I decided to go to law school because I thought it would set me up for all of those things.

9:37And I see, fast forward to today, I do see how all of those threads continue in my life. But I did start at, I did go to law school in New York at Columbia. I did my third year at University of Pennsylvania and did an internship at Morgan Lewis. And then I was an associate at Morgan Lewis in the mid nineties, a very busy time with the internet and companies going public and life sciences in the Philadelphia area, which is a theme that continues to today. but I learned a tremendous amount there. It's an amazing firm. I had that entrepreneurship bug in my blood, as you said, and I decided to go to a software company where I became the general counsel.

10:22Ultimately, we were a private company. We had investors like Michael Dell. Goldman Sachs was taking us public. We didn't go public in 1998, but we did go public in 2000. And then, unfortunately, we traded up well. We traded up to close to a billion-dollar market cap valuation. And then we hit the recession in 2001, 2002. We all know what happened there, the internet bubble bursting, and of course, sadly, a terrible tragedy of 9-11 and all the kinds of things that were happening there. Our company at the time decided to put everybody in our Texas location, in Dallas, Texas. And as a Philadelphia born and bred guy, I wasn't going to Dallas, Texas.

11:05unfortunately at that time. You were never going to be a cowboy. It was going to be hard. Yeah. So they offered me the opportunity to commute to Texas. And I said, well, I got a better idea. I want to launch my own firm and it would be great if you would consider being my first client. And they said yes to that. And so I was able to launch my own firm with a great client to start with. And then many of the executives from that company relocated and went to other companies. And so I was able to get them as clients at their new companies. And it was a great way to start the firm and then did that for about five years.

11:41And along the way - That was low risk entrepreneurship in a sense of - Well, yeah. I mean - But there's always - There was a key unlocking move there for sure. And then that client wasn't as many clients are not a forever client. And ultimately they were acquired and merged into a much bigger organization. so that client relationship did come to an end so I had to find other clients but it did give me a very solid way to start things and I grew and then I decided that I was sort of at a crossroads and somebody introduced me to the concept of StrengthsFinders which is a New York Times best-selling book that helps you identify what your strengths and weaknesses are and I took that and I realized that there's certain things I'm very strong at and certain things that I'm weak at.

12:32And while I could theoretically power through my weaknesses and get them done because I'm confident in my abilities to do that kind of thing, I felt like the best thing to do was to lean into my strengths and find other people who are strong at my weaker spots. So that's when I decided to find partners and I found John Royer who had a similar background and story and small firm, and we merged together going all the way back to about 2008, 2009. And this ultimately resulted in our founding of this firm in 2012 with eight attorneys in one office. Right. And since then, it's been amazing. Mary, I imagine you might have some questions about some of the things you just said.

13:15Do you have anything or do you want to hold off? Well, it's really amazing, Neil, how you have come with your family background. It is indeed in your blood. So I guess my question to you is, since you founded this law firm in 2012, how do you continue to feed your entrepreneurial soul? Well, it's really through the firm because we're involved in a lot of different initiatives. We're always looking at opportunities and we're bringing on new lawyers. I do a lot of recruiting both at the junior levels and at the senior levels. We've opened four additional geographies since we first started the firm.

14:01So we've added over 80 attorneys or so and we've added four offices. We've added multiple practice areas since we first started. When we first started, I'm a corporate transactional M &A attorney. We had six of those, one real estate attorney and one litigator. Now, the corporate group, the transactional group is about roughly 40 % to 50 % of the firm. We also have a very large commercial litigation group, a large real estate group, trust in estates. And it goes on, employment, tax. So finding those people, I view as an entrepreneurial venture. We also have affiliated businesses that we are not the practice of law, that we have an ownership interest in.

14:51and those are a couple of companies that are related to the practice of law, so that helps me feed my interest. And then I do a lot of stuff that's related to the law firm but outside the law firm, philanthropic endeavors and economic development endeavors and also things related to the topics where I practice law. With that, we're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back on Founders Forum. Royer Cooper Cohen Braunfeld, RCCB, is a full-service business law firm with more than 80 attorneys across five offices. The firm combines sophisticated legal counsel with a practical, business-minded approach and an entrepreneurial spirit.

15:30RCCB attorneys advise companies, investors, entrepreneurs, families, and institutions across corporate and business, litigation, intellectual property, real estate, private client services, tax, family law, health care, bankruptcy, and restructuring matters. Known for responsive service and legal strategies aligned with client goals, RCCB handles matters ranging from complex transactions and high stakes disputes to day-to-day business needs. The firm focuses on solving problems, protecting value and creating opportunities. RCCB is recognized by leading legal publications and has been named a top workplace for eight consecutive years, reflecting the strength of both its client service and firm culture.

16:07Visit rccblaw.com to learn how the firm can help you grow your business, protect your interests and advance your ambitions. We're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Neil Cooper of Royer Cooper Cohen Braunfeld LLC and Mary McCorvey. And Neil, so you kind of alluded to it a little bit, but in any entrepreneurial activity, there's challenges. The joke on the show is, oh, you start a business and it's a smooth ride, right? Yeah. So may I get a good laugh out of Mary on that one? Yeah. So knowing that that's not the case, what kind of things did you deal with up front? And we've talked about some of them, but what strikes you as some of the most significant challenges you had?

16:53Sure. We did, it is hard to find the right partners once you decide to find partners. And I was fortunate to find many great partners. And Royer, Cooper, Cohen, Braunfeld, we have four co-founders. we've over the years had some partners that didn't work out in the same way and didn't quite see things the same way that we did and didn't fit into our cultural outlook and how we like to, like we talked about earlier, empower people. We like to empower our people, our attorneys, our non-attorneys, our clients and friends, support them, figure out what they're highest and best at, and then support them in going after that.

17:40And not everybody does things that way. So that's okay, but they don't always belong in the firm. So the challenge is finding the right people, putting them in the right positions for success, and sometimes addition by subtraction if you have to. If you have to, but I think those things tend to work out by themselves a lot of times because it's not just one-sided that one side sees it one way and the other side doesn't. I think a lot of times both sides see it that way, and it's just a question of finding a way to go your separate ways. But that hasn't happened that much to us, and I think it's a natural outcome of conducting business and growing and going into new things.

18:26Another challenge for us over the years has been recruiting, and I think we've obviously done it very, very well. But I do remember early on in 2012 when we wanted to grow and we were having a difficult time of it. And we were only in Conchahawk in the suburbs. It's funny how things turn around. We were only in Conchahawk. And I went to a well-known legal recruiter in Philadelphia and said, Kathy, why is it that we're having such a hard time doing this? And she said, Neil, it's the most obvious thing in the world. You're not in Philadelphia. And at that time, every lawyer wanted to be in Philadelphia.

19:01And there was only a certain number of people that would entertain the suburbs. Now it's reversed. Now it's kind of reversed. Yeah. So it's funny how things work that way. And so how big is your Philadelphia office today compared to - They're roughly equal in size. Concha Hocken and Philadelphia are roughly equal in size. We were fortunate to get the opportunity to have a full floor at 3 Logan Square, 1717 Arch. It's beautiful, 360 degree views. We have about 35 lawyers in each of Philadelphia and Concha Hocken, plus or minus. So well-balanced, which is a good thing because the waves could change again, right?

19:37Yeah. So you're positioned either way, which is great. Yeah, and people do like both. Yeah. They do like both. Do some of your lawyers go back and forth between the offices? Yeah, I'm one of them, but we have a lot of lawyers who do go back and forth. Right. What strengths did you develop by handling that? Because obviously, when you got into practice, I think you had one or two lawyers when you joined forces with John. And now you've got all these people and you've recruited people. I don't know if that was a natural talent for you to find the right people and be a recruiter or that's something that developed.

20:10Or did you learn that the hard way? I love recruiting. I learned that I love recruiting. But you didn't know that up front. I did not know that up front for sure. I very much enjoy meeting people, talking to them about what they're trying to do, talking to them about what we're doing and seeing if there's a fit there and then seeing if we can execute through all the steps that we need to do to make it happen. And we're very careful with how we do. We have them meet a lot of people in the firm. Different firms do it differently, but we want to protect our culture and our people. And so we want to make sure as much as we can before they join that it's going to be a good fit.

20:46Even with all that, you can't always do it. So that's a strength you had that you may not have known you had early on, I guess. Absolutely. Yeah, I learned that. It's also important to work with outside recruiters. And that's a skill also because they vary greatly in their ability to bring talent. And the really good ones, you can just see it. They're determined. They're dogged. They don't give up. They're very persistent, which some people can find annoying. But at the same time, if they're skilled and they know what they're talking about, you can also appreciate it. So selection of the right people, even your external people, your external partners.

21:30Absolutely. That's great. Mary, you might have another question. I didn't even look at you yet. I see your arm was up. That's great. Oh, that's okay. What would you say to a second-year law student now who is looking to get into the field and seeing how the world is changing for those people that are coming into the law at this point? Yeah. Well, I see it as an opportunity. I think I see this a little bit differently, and I think our firm does see it a little bit differently. A lot of people talk about being worried about AI coming in and replacing junior level jobs. And there will be some of AI replacing some of the things that junior level people do.

22:17However, I think it will enable them to get to strategic issues faster. And so looking at more important issues, bigger issues and relying on AI. Now, the challenge that some of the younger folks are going to have is how do I learn? Because I'm going to rely on AI and I'm going to press a button and then it'll spit things out. And right now, AI is really good, but it's not good enough to do the work and just say, okay, here it is. You need to be able to check it. So they need to be able to figure out how to learn, so to speak, the old way, but also be plugged into the new way of doing things. And so I think they can help us learn the new way too.

23:00So it'll be a good combination. But they also, we do encourage people to come into the office because we think that's a good way of learning and interacting. Of course, Zoom and Teams and all of the remote ways are also good ways, but you have to be aggressive and make sure that you're doing it and getting people either on the phone or on virtual. I know as a young attorney, for me, a lot of my time was dedicated to research. And I know that, you know, that may be going by the wayside to a certain extent because AI should be pretty good for that, which tells me, if I'm correct, I'm going to just finish the question and then you can comment, but it tells me that you may be, a new lawyer may need to learn new skills more quickly than what we had to do coming up.

23:49Yeah, I think it's partially true, Mark, for sure. Back when we were starting, everybody was looking at physical books and going to the library. And then Westlaw and Lexis, the online research systems became more of a prevalent thing. And then people may at that time have thought, when I was first starting, we didn't quite have email yet, even. And then with a year or two in, we did have email. So people adapted. these things save times in certain ways, but they didn't save time in other ways and they let you spend more time on things that you maybe were spending not as much time as you could have on back then.

24:28Right, right. So same kind of, the future is like the past and the past is like the future. Yeah, we'll see. Obviously we'll see. But I do think that the younger lawyers today will need to learn certain skills, as you were saying, that they may not have gotten into for three, five, ten years. Now they may do it in a year or two. So speaking of the future, we only have a few minutes left, believe it or not. Time flies on this show. But the question I want to ask you is if, so I like to put a time marker on the show because people could be listening to this five years from now because it's a podcast.

25:08So this is October of 26. And so if you and I are talking, which I'm sure we will be in October of 29, three years from now, and you're looking back on the last three years, what would have to happen professionally, business-wise, personal-wise, if you'd like to talk about that, for you to feel that that was a successful progression in your life? Sure. That's a great question, Mark. I think that first and foremost, for the law firm, we're going to need to figure out how to fully integrate and work with AI. as we were just talking about, figuring out pricing models, figuring out which systems and programs to use and how to use them and how to work with clients on that.

25:54So that'll be a big topic for us. We'll also continue to execute on our plan, continue to meet great people, look for opportunities for new partners, new lawyers, new practice areas, new geographies. We also, I mentioned earlier, we have some affiliated businesses, so we'll be working on growing them. We may add some going forward, and we're very opportunistic. So it depends on who we meet and when we meet, but we're very present in the market. As for me personally, I just moved to Philadelphia literally about 10 days ago. To the city, not to the region. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry about that.

26:35That's okay. Yeah, so yeah, I just moved from the suburbs to the city, and I think that's going to be a different kind of opportunity that presents itself because there's all kinds of activity in the city that you have some access to coming from the suburbs, but when you're there on the ground, you see it developing all the time. Neil, thanks so much. Mary McCorvey, thank you for being here. My pleasure. Thank you to Royer Cooper for sponsoring the show. Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.

27:10Founders Forum was brought to you in part by March Forward, LLC. We partner with entrepreneurs like you to assist in accomplishing your future vision, your life, your business, your legacy. Comprehensive wealth planning that starts with you, not a product. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum and that you found something of value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders Forum on WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia or on your favorite podcast streaming service. Securities offered through DFPG Investments, LLC. DFPG. Investment advisory services offered through Diversify Advisory Services, LLC.

27:51Diversify. DAS and DFPG are affiliated entities. March is unaffiliated with DAS and DFPG. members finra slash sipc the information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be interpreted as investment advice the views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of diversify or dfpg