Ivan Misner: How a Quiet Introvert Built BNI into a $16 Billion Referral Powerhouse | Ep. 193

28:13Yeah, I've been, I'm just going to plug it real quick. You know, where do you start? So just so everyone knows, I'm going to plug just real quick. Sorry. If they go to, just so you're talking, they can check it out. Go to Ivan Meisner.com. I-V-A-N-M-I-S-N-E-R.com. You can check out his blog, the things that he's talking through. Check out all his books. Just want to make sure that people can follow along because I know we're going to open up to questions. I know they're going to have a lot of questions. Ivan Meisner you can look at the top of the room I-V-A-N-M-I-S-N-E-R Ivan Meisner.com you can see all these blog posts it's incredible website with a ton of great information because we all need to be better marketers I'm sorry networkers and marketers and also you can check out his books and you can of course go to BNI.com for the organization but Ivan Meisner.com sorry to interrupt but back to you.

29:05Heck are you kidding you're talking about my blog I can interrupt anytime. I've been doing two blogs a week since 2007. So I have lots and lots and lots of content up on there. It's all free. Obviously, if you want a book, you go to Amazon, but the blogs are all free. All the content is free. So the article I was talking about was when you walk into a room, where do you start? So next time you walk into a networking event, there's a lot of people, observe the room. People who are standing perpendicular to each other, let's say two people facing each other, standing perpendicular, it's hard to break into that conversation.

29:44So just look past that for a few minutes and then look around the room. People who are standing in a triangle, a closed group, a closed triangle, it's hard to break into that. People that are standing in a square, four people standing in a square or in a circle like a huddle, it's hard to break into that. What you want to look for are what I call open twos, open threes, and open groups. An open two looks like the letter V. People are standing askew from each other. It's really easy to slip in there and introduce yourself. Or people standing in an open three, which looks like a U. It's easy to step up and introduce yourself.

30:23Or an open group where you have a larger number of people, but there's an open spot. Look for the open groups and slide in. Now, if you are a member of a networking group, it's really important that you teach your fellow members to always stand in open twos, open threes, and open groups. Because it is a subtle but significant technique to make people feel included, to make people feel like it's easy to strike up a conversation with other people. It is a great technique to use. I've tested it and we've seen, you know, where people, where chapters who use this technique in BNI, people walk away going, I don't know what it is, but it's just so easy to strike up conversations with people in this group.

31:12Well, it's done on purpose. So always stay in an open twos, open threes, and look for them. I remember once I did a, it's so funny, I did a presentation, Tino, I talked about this. And by the way, you can see I've got on my blog, I think I've got JPEGs in there. Let me just double check. And so everyone go to IvanMisner.com so you can follow along. And you can see the JPEGs or a JPEG at least, and use that as a model of what I'm talking about. and I remember once I did this presentation, I talked about it, and I'm standing with a guy at a networking event, and the two of us are standing. We're doing the exact wrong thing, perpendicular, looking at each other, and he looks at me and he goes, is it closed too?

31:59I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I've got it. We open it up. Boom, immediately, third person comes in. He and I look at each other, the first guy and I, like, closed three. We open it up. Boom, fourth person, fifth person, sixth person, seventh person. And the group got, you know, the circle got to like eight or 10 people before I stepped to another group. But I mean, that's the way it works. Look for people in open stances. It's such a simple technique. But, you know, a lot of what I talk about is simple. It's not easy. If it were easy, everyone would do it. And they forget. And so these techniques are very effective.

32:35Hope that answers your question. Wow. That's really awesome. Now, this really happened to me over the weekend or the last few days. how do you recover from saying something stupid because you're nervous this is what happened to me I was in a bathroom and I was washing my hand and I asked lady I compliment her with it's really beautiful it's a real beautiful tops it's a beautiful tops like I asked her what she does and she said she handled Beyonce's fund and I don't know how to say after that I think I said something stupid. So I don't know how to recover. Maybe I'm beating myself hard because I said something that, oh, that must be weird seeing people's reaction when you say that.

33:20Did I say stupid thing? I don't know. Is that what you said? Yeah, that's what I said. I normally don't say things like that, but I guess how do you recover from that fall? I feel like it's a big... Yeah, look, first of all, don't beat yourself up. It's not that bad. It's an unusual thing to say. Listen, I've said worse, okay? I've absolutely said worse. So the first thing I would tell people is don't worry about saying something stupid. You will. It's inevitable. We all do. I definitely have. Don't worry about that. What you want to do is recover as quickly as possible and ask a few more meaningful questions.

33:59And there are some that you can use that are really easy. Like, oh wow that's a really interesting business what do you like most about what you do well people love to talk about what they love most you might want to you know ask questions like what what's the most challenging thing about what you do and and you said that she handles uh was it Beyonce's foundation is that what it is no yeah so you know who who does um who does Beyonce support What organizations does she support? I'm really curious. And just get the person to open up. And then you don't have to follow a very specific line of questioning.

34:39Remember, it's not an interrogation. It's a discussion. But follow the thread. So if she were to say, these are the kinds of things we support, then you could say, tell me more about that. That's really interesting. Or I have some experience with organizations like that. This is the experience I've had. Tell me more about your... And just get people to open up and talk. You can recover. That was not so bad that you couldn't recover. Willingly, I've said worse. It was probably one of the worst. I've never done that. But maybe I was in the bathroom. I wasn't expecting her response. And I was kind of looking who was in the room.

35:19Again, I was kind of looking. But then it was a bad timing. But there you go. That wasn't so bad. Yeah, no, no, that's incredible. That same event, interestingly enough, there was somebody who is very, very, very high level individual, used to be C-suite of a very large organization. After two minutes of talking to them, they turned around and said, enough about me, I want to know more about you. and that person out of all the 50 people that we met that day I remember that person so I love what you're saying around uh asking questions about the person and then you gave everyone those two examples the challenging what do you love um these are great openers we're all amateurs when it comes to to networking and I think that's why so many people are here just so everybody knows I pinned to the top your website ivanmeisner.com so they don't have to remember how to spell it it's right at the top of the screen.

36:17All you have to do is just click the top of the screen, goes right to his blog, his website. So just tap literally the link we pinned to the top, really simple, tap that, go to his website. You can check out his books, his blog, two blogs a week for a long time. There's a whole lot of information to read. And we all need to be better at networking, especially since I know I've done the most networking the last few months I've probably ever done. I think everybody right now is going to conferences, is going to events, and we all need to be better. I wish we had this conversation a week ago, by the way, because I know a few days ago, I could have done a much better job at networking.

36:53So I appreciate that. But I think we can go, Kate, do you have any more questions or I can open up to audience? Yes, I have one last question. These are great questions, you guys, by the way. Oh, thank you, Ivan. How do you want to be remembered? You know, it's funny. The more gray hair I get, the more often I mess this question. And, you know, what do I want my legacy to be? And I think your life is your legacy. How you live your life is how you're remembered. There's a, let me give you a variation of a quote by Jean-Paul Sartre that I read in college. And I love this quote. I'll paraphrase him.

37:33He said, we all die too soon or too late, and yet our life is complete at that moment with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. We are our deeds in life and little more. And I think that summarizes what I think a legacy is. It's not what you want. It's how you lived and how you affected people. In one of my books, Who's in Your Room? I talk a little bit about this and then we can move on to the next question. I talk about the fact that we all have people that are in our story, that there's somebody, particularly when we're young, that said something that helped change our trajectory, story, sometimes the bad, sometimes the good, but they're in our story.

38:33To me, we all have people that are in our story, but to me, what's more important than who's in our story is whose story are we in? Whose life have we changed in some way, helped in some way that we're in their story? And that's a life well lived when you are in people's stories in a positive way. Great question. Wow. Thank you. Dan? Yeah, which is exactly why we call this founder story, this segment here, because there's so, I love that point. I mean, there's so many quotable things that you're saying. So I hope you don't mind that. I think a lot of people are going to be quoting Ivan Meisner.

39:19So if you quote Dr. Ivan Meisner, please give him credit for that. Maybe give him a hashtag on social media. Maybe do an at right there. Add in Ivan Meisner. You can also click at the top. But it's so incredible what you said. I think there's so much inspiration and power in the story and the impact. And that's what people remember. They remember your story. They don't necessarily remember your accomplishments. So we have Dr. Ivan Meisner, the founder of BNI, the world's largest business networking organization. I keep saying the world and I say planet at the end. I don't know why it sounds. It sounds it's like double the world's largest business networking organization on the planet.

40:00Dr. Ivan Meisner here. You can click the top the link right there. You can check out his blog. He has incredible New York Times and many bestselling books as well. also of course you can go to bni.com with this organization and i remember going to one i want to say was maybe 15 years ago throughout my life i've gone to different types of bni uh first in florida one in new mexico then also in california and i've met some some great great people that are even uh you know somebody who became a great friend of ours as well um so i want to open it up to questions here and i want to see uh who has a question before we do that somebody did ask real quick.

40:38I've never seen this before. When is your birthday? June 30th. All right. Somebody asked what, so you might get a present in the mail. I don't know. June 30th. I was born in 1956. So I'm 65 years old. All right. So June 30th, somebody asked what is the day of your birthday? So I don't know why, but there you go. You might get it. You might get a great, great greeting card. So I'd love to see who let's go to dimple first um dimple renee michael butler welcome michael butler so dimple renee michael butler and then we'll keep it going over to you dimple

41:39Well, that's a great question. You know, we had almost 10 ,000 chapters when COVID hit, 9 ,700 groups, all meeting every week, 9 ,700 weekly meetings in person. So we had to pivot very quickly. Luckily, I've got a CEO who runs BNI who was absolutely visionary on this topic, and he saw that COVID was going to have a dramatic impact in the world. And so we started transitioning Asia in January of 2020 and Europe in February. And we did the rest of the world in March of 2020. The whole world transitioned to online. And so all of our chapters are meeting online for the better part of a year. We still have chapters that are meeting online.

42:35We have 700 chapters who started online, and they may continue to be strictly online. What we are suggesting to B &I chapters now is they consider, look, they can do what they'd like. They can either go back to meeting in person. You know, I started the organization meeting in person, so I'm in favor of that. But I also recognize that the world is changing. and so some want to meet in person again that's fine as long as it's safe and you remain safe meet in person some want to just meet online and that's fine but what I think we're going to see a substantial movement too and I'm seeing it now is a hybrid where chapters are meeting online say three times a month and meeting in person once a month.

43:29I love that concept because it still has people meeting face-to-face in person, but the ease of operation online is significant. By the way, I predicted in 2018, I wrote an article at entrepreneur.com that the future of face-to-face was online, that we were going to be moving to an online platform because of the technology that was developing mixed reality, 3D technology, holographic imaging that I predicted that within 10 years, we were going to be meeting online. I didn't see COVID coming, but the technology is a... I mean, think about this. what if COVID had hit us in 1990 instead of 2020? Wow.

44:23We would really, really have problems as a world and business. So many more people would have died. So the technology has been a godsend for us worldwide. I hope that answers your question. wow incredible thank you ivan all right great question too dimple appreciate that so we had i wrote it down here we had renee michael butler then diamond diva and then uh bali paul and katrina and then we'll go from there so renee michael butler diamond diva bali paul katrina over to you renee and great to see you

45:08the interview with Dr. Ivan. And Dr. Ivan, I'm just so grateful for your honesty, your humbleness, as well as your heart, you know, for your passionate purpose of being able to share for so many. I think we have a hot, a hot mic. I'm not sure, but I do hear other people in the background. Just being able to really help others to succeed, especially during this time, you know, I too was in this space of just working online since 2016. So I definitely can, as you said, it's a gift that we're in right now because we've all been able to connect so wonderfully. And I know for sure, thanks to Daniel alongside us, we can continue on listening to your interview for hours because we hear the sincerity as well as the confidence.

45:54And also, you are a true gift and you continue on giving. And that's a great gift that you've been doing. I'll say this too. I've had the pleasure of meeting your friend as well as I would say one of my mentors, Mr. Sir Richard Branson. And I am going to post this picture up. I have the pleasure of meeting him. And he's another great giver in this space. I have two questions for you, Dr. Ivan. With a long and triumph career, what has been your proudest moment that will stay with you? Then the second question is, I know everything that you do is so important to understand, how do you juggle the fatherhood as well as the entrepreneurship still while making time for yourself?

46:43And while you're answering, I'll make sure I switch out the picture to show Alfred and S. Luther Branson. Thank you.

46:54Thanks, Renee. What a great set of questions. And first of all, let me just talk about Branson for a second. Amazing man. His ego does not enter the room before he does, which is really incredible. And I think I have a philosophy about humility. I think that humble people don't think less of themselves. They just think of themselves less. And Branson is, I think, a classic example of that. I watched him. I mean, I've been to Necker now four times. And I've met him three or four times elsewhere. And for those who don't know, Necker Island is his private island. And I watched him talk to staff. And he talks to staff the same way he talks to millionaires.

47:37He gives his staff the same respect that he gives millionaires that may be on the island. And there's a lot to be said for somebody who's a billionaire who treats people that way. And yeah, amazing person. Okay. So your two questions are, the second one was really, I think, about balance. And the first one is my proudest moment. My proudest moment I'm writing about right now, it will be in a book that comes out maybe late next year, 2022, possible it'd be early 2023. The book, the working title on it is The Third Paradigm. And it's about co-creation, about how business has gone from competition, the first paradigm, to cooperation, the second paradigm, to co-creation, the third paradigm, things like crowdsourcing.

48:33And that's what the book is about. And I tell a story in there about really my proudest moment. It's too long to tell here, but I'll give you a really, Really Reader's Digest version, which is it was one particular day at a BNI convention that I knew would be either the best day of my professional career or the worst day of my professional career. And it was because I had released an online platform that was a total and complete disaster. And what I had to do was fall on the sword, beg for forgiveness, and more importantly, then move the organization in the direction that it needed to go. which means that I had to make it right.

49:26And so getting to the point where people would go from wanting to draw and quarter me publicly at the meeting to having them go, yeah, we can do this, was probably my proudest moment in business. And I tell the whole story in the book. It's called The Third Paradigm. It's not out yet, but you might find that interesting when it does come out. Let's talk about balance. You can get this material right out of a book I wrote called Who's in Your Room, which is about the people that you surround yourself with. And so I'm going to give you the secret to balance. Would you guys, Daniel, Kate, would you like, you think they'd like to hear the secret to balance?

50:14Absolutely. All right. Here's the secret to balance. Forget about balance. You'll never have it. Yeah. When I tell people that, they'll either chuckle or you'll hear, especially in a public audience, you'll hear people groan like, oh man, I thought I was going to get something good. I hope you get something good because I think balance is impossible. And you said it in your question, juggling all these different things. You used the term juggling. I think life is more of a juggling act than a balancing act because, you know, we think of balance as scales and that our personal life has to be in balance with our business life, which has to be in balance with our spirituality and our health, and it's all got to be in balance.

51:02And that just isn't realistic. Life is more of a juggling act than a balancing act. And although I don't think you can have a life of balance, I strongly believe you can have a life of harmony. And harmony is different than balance. This is not just semantics. Even the graphic for harmony, the yin and the yang, are out of balance if you separate them. It's the whole coming together that creates a life of harmony. And I have lived a life that is probably not very balanced. I mean, I have 2.3 million miles on one airline alone. I traveled immensely. It's hard to raise a family, have a marriage of 31 years and a successful business.

51:52And so I tried to create a life of harmony. And I'll give you two or three things. This is right out of the book, who's in your room. The first is a technique. It's about be here now. Simple concept. A lot of what I talk about simple, just not easy. Be here now. Wherever you are, be there. Don't be at home thinking about that project that's got to get done at work. Don't be at work thinking about the fact that you didn't spend time with the family last night. Wherever you are, be fully present. Now, nobody's perfect at this. I wasn't. But I got pretty darn good at being present wherever I was.

52:31And the more you can practice that philosophy of be here now, the more you're going to have a life of harmony. Here's one more. There's like six or seven different techniques to create harmony. But one more is you have to have a life with margins. You have to have space for yourself. It's like in the margins of a book. You have to have space for yourself. You know, if that involves meditation, if that involves, you know, for me, I do meditate, but for me, it's like going out on my boat on the lake or, you know, I have a telescope looking at the planets and the telescope. Okay, don't tell anybody.

53:11I'm watching TV. I watch TV. You know, I watch, there are programs I like. And that's one of the ways, that's a margin for me. I have, since I was a young man, taken almost always one day a week, unless I'm traveling, one day a week that is my mental health day. I don't go anywhere. I don't do anything outside of my house other than hang with the family if they're here or, you know, made to go out on my boat or go in the hot tub, you know. Other than that, it's my day and I recharge my batteries and so i talk about this in who's in your room i don't believe balance is possible but i believe harmony is i hope that answers your question

54:01yeah

54:04yeah

54:14and

54:26Daddy likes Farm nhưng

54:35you for you

54:54yeah yeah

55:04Yeah. Thank you, Renee. Thank you. I appreciate it. And you're right. You didn't say balance. I threw that in there when you used the term juggling. And I hope that, again, I hope that answers your question. It was a great question. Awesome. Thank you so much, Ivan. Thank you, Renee. Always great seeing you as well. So founder of BNI, Ivan Meisner. Ivan, how much more time do you have? Just so we know. Oh, I've got at least a half an hour. I'm speaking to by zoom to China in an hour. So I've got a hard stop in an hour for sure. All right. So, so we'll just make sure I have a diamond diva, Michael Butler, Katrina, Bolly Paul.

55:44Sorry if I screwed up the order, but diamond diva, Michael Butler, Katrina, Bolly Paul, we'll go in that order. So please, if you could just get quickly to the question so everyone can answer diamond diva always asks very, very insightful questions. So get ready because this is going to be a good one. I know that. Also, there you go. Don't fall out of your chair. I just want to make sure that everyone checks out. Just click the link at the top, Dr. Ivan Meiser. You can go to IvanMeiser.com. All you have to do is tap the link at the top so you can learn more about him. But Diamond, over to you.

56:16It's Diamond. Thank you so much, Daniel. And hey, Mark. I'm going to play today. I'm a DB. It's so great to see you, Dr. Ivan Meiser. again here is people's face and as always i'm learning new things every time that you share and my question is in regard to something that you shared in your book who's in your realm and so we think about the people that we surround ourselves with the network if you will it really is important that we have the right people because guess what they're dropping those gems and those see that growing our self-conscious mind and really impact how we view ourselves to the world our mindset and we truly are the average like jen ron said that five people with and with that in mind what advice would you advise for people to be able to discern are these the right people in my network and what would you do about that found out this is diamond and i'm complete

57:22So that's a great question. And I do talk about this in who's in your room. Let me give you the concept of who's in your room and then I'll answer your question directly. The concept is, imagine you live your life in one room and that that one room has only one door and that one door is an enter only door so that when people come into your room or into your life, they're there forever. You can't get them out. Now, many people say to me, well, that's a metaphor. You know, I've gotten people out of my life. And so what I'd like all of you to do, Diamond, what I'd like you to do, everyone who's listening, Daniel, Kate, everyone, I want you to think of somebody that you got out of your life.

58:02And I want you to think about why you wanted them out of your life. And I want you to think about what they did to make you want them out of your life. Now, you guys, you don't have to say who it is, but do you have someone in mind? Yes, I do. It's normally when someone's clashing my value when it comes to integrity. I can't be around that person. So I want you to think about something they did that made you want them out of your life and then you get them out of your life. So here's the deal. If they're still in your head, they're still in your room and they'll be there for the rest of your life because every decision you make in the future will be in part, anything that relates to what they did, it'll be in part because of your experience with that person.

58:51And so it is more than a metaphor. One of the people we interviewed was Dr. Daniel Amen for the book. And he said, people's fingerprints are all over your brain. When you have a relationship with them, personal or professional, their fingerprints are all over your brain for the rest of your life. And so it's very important to be selective about the people that you let into your room. And you, name it Kate, it's about values. You've got to get good with your values. You have to know what your values are. And in the book, we have a simple values instrument that you can use to kind of figure out what your values are.

59:26And there's a lot of stuff online to figure out what your values are. And what you want to look for are people who have values that are resonant with yours. They don't have to be the same values. As a matter of fact, in so many ways, diversity is good. And this is one of them. You want people to have values, but values that are not dissonant with yours, incongruent with yours. And so you screen people based on their values and how their values interact with your values. Part of the question was, what do you do with people who you finally want out of your life or your room? And there's a couple of techniques in the book that we do.

1:00:05There's several, but two that I'll share here today. One is homeopathic doses and the other is benign neglect. Benign neglect is like, you know, we went to college with people that were friends, high school friends, people that we really liked. And through benign neglect, the relationship dissipated. And we even, we liked them. And that happened. Now, imagine if you did it with a plan. Imagine if you have a plan for people that are problematic, that are in your life. And you use benign neglect as a way of pulling yourself away from them being active in your life. The other is homeopathic doses, where when you have to interact with them, you interact with them in small doses.

1:00:50Let's say you're going to go to a city where you've got this person that you maybe never really... They're no longer a good fit in your life. And you know that if you show up there, it's going to be on Facebook and they're going to get mad that you didn't let them know. Let them know the day before. Hey, I'm going to be in town tomorrow. I'd love to get together for a cup of coffee between 12 and 1. And chances are pretty good that they may not even see the email that you've sent. And it's like, oh, I'm sorry I missed you. And if they do, then you've created parameters around the amount of time that you have to spend with them.

1:01:26And so it's a homeopathic doses, benign neglect and one last thought someone might be in your life like family members they might be in your life but their baggage has to stay out this story is not in the book but it will be in the second edition that we're working on and then i'll take another question um i had someone who told me that she had someone a family member who would come to family dinners and they'd have these big family dinners. And at every family dinner, she said this relative would throw in a verbal hand grenade into the room and people would get upset and there'd be arguments and fighting and crying.

1:02:15And she just kept doing it. And so the family got together without her and said, how are we going to deal with this? And she actually talked about my book and different techniques. And they decided, I love this, they decided that the next time she did it, that everyone would look at her and say, oh, interesting. Okay. And then turn back to their conversation. Ignore it. No matter how hostile the statement or the grenade was, just ignore it. and you know what happened that woman stopped coming to most of the dinners she was getting something out of winding people up and when she could no longer wind people up um it wasn't fun for her anymore and so she went to very very few dinners and when she did and she's throwing a grenade everyone's like oh interesting okay and just ignored it very effective technique you may be in my life but your baggage has to stand wow what a timely advice before thanksgiving yeah love that thank you thank you ivan great question diamond as well appreciate that we're gonna go to michael butley here in a second diamond were you gonna jump back this time I actually purchased that book and I'm using the techniques that you shared with some of my clients because like you said sometimes it's a family member sometimes it's not someone that you can easily walk away from and it's important to develop those coping mechanisms so you can check your mindset and still have a productive life so thank you so much for your share I complete thank you diamond reads a lot of books and it's always every person that we have as a guest she's read the book and always inspires me because she has a great question i think that's you had mentioned before she always has a great question from a book she's read about a great host so thank you diamond for for sharing um she always talks about tapping the house that takes over a million our biz we've done some incredible guests interviews and we're so happy that iva is here so make sure you follow the club you can see all the stuff that's coming tomorrow is actually international women's entrepreneurship day so we're going to have a celebration there and that's going to be fantastic um tap the top here dr i'm in my so you can go to his website i have mr.com just tap the top it's really simple all you got to do is tap it goes right there you see his blogs his websites and make sure you're following all these incredible people on stage i have not said that but follow everyone up here they're just amazing and we're so happy that they're here and we also have uh a, um, sorry, I forgot what I was going to say.

1:05:05I blanked out. See, I was looking at who I have to call on next. You can't do two things at one time, but tap the top, go to Ivan Meisner's website, follow everybody, go to social. I would even say, take a screenshot and tag Ivan Meisner. I bet he'd be pretty happy. Share a quote and put a hashtag in there. I'd love to see that trending. How cool would that be? Um, and then we have Michael Butler was up next and just make sure we have about 15 minutes left so we want to make sure we can get in we got uh michael butler katrina bali paul then uh then phil so michael butler over to you yeah before you go michael butler if we can be mindful to go straight to the question that way we can intern as many as we can thank you absolutely absolutely a great ring tonight thank you dr ivan for being here i've been a fan and a follower for a long time

1:06:00still

1:06:25Thank you, Michael. And everyone, please call me Ivan. So it's a great question. Let me give you a technique that I talk about in a couple of my books, including Networking Like a Pro, the second edition. It's called the 24-7-30 follow-up system. 24-7-30. Within 24 hours, reach out to somebody that you meet either through a Zoom networking event or in-person networking event, reach out to them, send them an email or do something really crazy like send them a card or something through the mail. I love send out cards. I'm a client. I don't sell send out cards, but I love send out cards. It's a great organization where you can send a card by going online, but it sends it through the mail.

1:07:07Nobody gets stuff through the mail anymore. So within 24 hours, send them a note saying, hey, it was great meeting you. I enjoyed our conversation on whatever, and I hope our paths cross again. That's it. Don't sell to them. Within seven days, connect with them on social media. So when you're talking to them, find out what social media platforms do they use. Do they use Clubhouse? Do they use Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter? Where are they? Instagram. Find out what their favorite one is. And that's what's important is find out what their favorite one is. And I learned this really from my kids because my eldest daughter, when she was 17, you know, I would call her and she wouldn't answer.

1:07:45But if I texted her, boom, she'd answer immediately. And then I remember saying to her, honey, you know, this is a phone that you have. You can actually talk into it. It's like, you can go to dad. She said to me, dad, you're not only not with it, you're not even near it. Like, okay, well, you still have to be home at 10 o 'clock. So then my next daughter was, if I called her, nothing, if I texted her, nothing. For her, it was WhatsApp. I had to WhatsApp her. And then my son, he didn't like WhatsApp and text. He was a gamer. He was a gamer. And so I knew that Steam had an instant messaging platform on their games.

1:08:23So I was in my 50s. I downloaded Steam. I bought a game so that I could instant message my son and he would respond immediately. I tell you that because you want to go where they are, not where you like to hang out, but where they like to hang out. If you want to really network with this person, that's what you got to do. You go where they are, not where you necessarily are. And so find out what social media platform they like the most and go there. Now, I'm on all of them, but I probably am a little more active personally on Facebook than the others, my public Facebook page. So find out where they are, go there within seven days, and make comments, interact, don't sell to them.

1:09:10Then within 30 days, reach out to them and ask to do a one-to-one where you can learn more about them, find out about what they do. Hopefully they're willing to meet with you and tell you what they do and hear what you do. And again, don't sell to them. Don't sell to them. It's about holding the relationship, not closing a sale. Look, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. You'll fall over business. It'll happen from time to time. But what you want to do is build relationships with people. And so 24-7-30 follow-up system, it's about building a relationship with people. Great question. Incredible.

1:09:54Thank you, Michael Butler. Awesome. This is the master of publishing and networking as well. Michael Butler there. thank you Ivan Meisner click the top you can follow along we have about 12 minutes left so check out his website uh up next we have Bolly Paul then Katrina then Phil we'll see what we can get through so uh Bolly Paul over to you then Katrina make sure we are getting straight to the question thank you so much yeah the the problem is I'm taking too long with the answers no no you You are good. Yeah. There you go. In case, I did this, and I really, my question is, is this, I remember Charlie Lawson when I was, he was preaching the group, give us again, and the history of it.

1:10:46And it was inspiring. And what struck me was that you created that philosophy in the mid to late 80s when the whole of the sales world and the financial world everyone was taking you know greed was good and the movies and all the stocks Wall Street and all that were in the head and everything was about taking sales was extremely flashy the opening of closing the dean and all that matchup. And what you, you went the other way. And instead of taking, you told people to give. What, where did you get that inspiration from? Because that was a masterstroke.

1:11:48well I didn't like the networks that I was going to where everyone was trying to sell to me and I just felt like I was being slimed and had to go home and get a shower and so I realized that the best way to get referrals was to help people. And this philosophy of giver's gain is kind of the evolution of that. Your network, in my opinion, your network is a beacon of hope in a sea of fear. The world's a crazy place. When you have people around you that are there to help you and support you, magic happens. And to me, giver's gain is more than a phrase. It's a way of living one's life. It's a perspective to view and interact with the world.

1:12:31It's an attitude, not an expectation. And when it's applied properly, it'll change your life. And when it changes enough lives, it'll change the world. I really believe in the philosophy of Gibbers Gain, and I have seen it work, particularly over the last two years, more than ever before. Hope that answered your question.

1:12:59thank you incredible yeah thank you bali paul thank you ivan katrina you are up next we have about five minutes left so katrina over to you so

1:13:26creating an online um bni where it doesn't have to be chapter specific to a location so for instance like I've been able to because of the zoom now I've been able to go to other chapters in different parts of the world and we've been able to network because our businesses are online also so do you see like a different type of BNI additionally being created for just online businesses that don't need to be brick and mortar or in the area um close to other business owners to just have this. I hope that makes sense. It does. And the answer is, is it within the realm of possibility? Yes. But it's a little more challenging for a couple of reasons, some of which you might not be aware of.

1:14:14But one of the things that we really believe in is the power of meeting in person. And so if it's not geographically based, it's going to be very difficult to meet in person. And maybe that'll change someday, like I said, with the holographic images. But BNI is locally owned and operated. And because it's locally owned and operated, there's an aspect of the business that people who join a group that is just global, that the company then would in effect be competing with its own local owners. And so we have to get past that issue. And there are ideas to get past that issue that will make it viable.

1:14:56I think it's inevitable that BNI is going to be a platform, a platform that is both online and in person. And it's hard to predict when that transition of mostly online is going to take place permanently. But I think it's inevitable. As I said in that article on entrepreneur, that it's inevitable that technology is going to change things. We're going to be disrupted. And I want BNI to lead the disruption, not be disrupted. A lot of people don't know, but Kodak invented the digital camera. They invented the digital camera and they licensed it out to other companies. How'd that work out for them?

1:15:37There was an executive with Kodak who said, besides who's going to... They didn't want to compete with their film processing business. And one of the executives said, besides who's going to look at photographs on a computer. Nobody wants photographs on a computer. And we're not thinking ahead. So we're trying to think ahead. We are taking that into consideration, but it's a little more complex than people might recognize at a glance. I hope that answers your question. It was a good question.