The $1M Shark Tank Surge and the Product Test That Changed Everything | Ep. 321 with Wombi Rose Co-Founder and CEO of Lovepop

0:05Daniel Robbins:So, Wombi, I'm super excited today because I've always wanted to go on Shark Tank. And something I've always wanted to know is what is the feeling? I watch the show so many times. I'm like, I want to go on. What's the feeling when you're on there? And not only that, but if you get a deal, what is that feeling like? But first, LovePop. So your mission at LovePop is 1 billion magical moments. And I think we can all agree we are in a mental health crisis right now. It seems like, and then on top of that, we have so much disconnection from social media and AI now that people are like going to robots for the comfort.

0:45Daniel Robbins:It seems like what you're doing is even more important right now.

0:49Wombi Rose:That's right. So our mission at LovePop is to create 1 billion magical moments. Of course, we do that by making this beautiful, intricate paper art. So look at that. That's our cherry blossom. Really beautiful. And the reason this is so important, especially right now, is because loneliness is really, really bad for you. Working on your social connections is really, really important. And that's why we really built a whole company around that idea.

1:20Daniel Robbins:Go back to the beginning. when you had this idea what was the idea then compared to what it is what it's morphed into now

1:29Wombi Rose:yeah when we first started the company so my co-founder john and i originally ship designers naval architects marine engineers we were uh in vietnam on a business school trip our goal was to to start a business out of business school and we just fell in love with this amazing paper art so I'll just show you one more because I love the products. This is the roller coaster of love. You can see the engineering that has gone into this. So we're really engineers. We thought we'd be doing something with like hard hats and steel toes, but we fell in love with this concept and we're just like, oh my God, we can make anything out of this.

2:09Wombi Rose:It wasn't really a business. It was just like, this will be fun. We want to use it for our own personal stationary. and then it really kind of took one step after the other we had a bunch in our backpacks we were showing them to our friends and family we went out into Boston Public Gardens with the product and we were just handing it to people and we were asking like hey what would you do with this and that was actually one of the most important moments is wasn't exactly this design but it's very similar to this we handed it to a lady named Kyle and we asked her what would you do with this and she just like instantly said, oh, I know exactly what I would do with that.

2:45Wombi Rose:I would give it to my mom and I would give it to her today because it's the fifth anniversary of my dad passing away and it's so beautiful. It's like a tree of life. It's just going to make her day. And that was that moment where it really clicked of like, yes, this is fun. This is exciting. We can make all kinds of fun little paper sculptures with this technique, but it's really more than that. You're sending an emotion. you're creating that magical moment. It's more than paper. And that was the moment for us where it really clicked. Like there's this big industry in greeting cards that hasn't changed in a hundred years, needs disruption, and people are hungry for something that's going to have more of an impact.

3:26Daniel Robbins:I like that you went to people. I think sometimes we think, oh, there might be a need for something, but we don't ask people if there really is a need for something. And I think a lot of businesses fail in that sense because they don't really see, is the market big enough for something that they're trying to create? So it sounded like you had a very large market. You went to people. People loved it. How did you get going? How did you create the actual business where you realized this is really going to be something?

3:56Wombi Rose:That's a really great point you just made because yes, in the beginning, we did not have design. We did not have production. We did not have marketing. We really didn't have anything. we were just testing the idea with real consumers in real environments. So we worked with some contract manufacturers, we got some product, and we went to local fairs and markets, we sold them out of our backpacks, we really tried to get an understanding of the consumer and the market need before we did anything else. And one of the moments from that that I remember distinctly is we went to this market south of Washington Avenue in Boston.

4:31Wombi Rose:And this was our first time at the market, we spent $100 to get a spot for a tent, which we borrowed from someone. And we went there. We didn't even have envelopes for cards. We were sitting there cutting envelopes out and putting the little two-stick tape on it as we were selling people cards. And we ended up doing$1 ,700 that day. And the tent next to us did$100. And people were coming and they were bringing their friends. that were like, oh my God, you've got to check this out. And so John and I, we're not consumer products people at all, engineers, but we had never felt that energy like going into an apparel store.

5:11Wombi Rose:People aren't like, oh my God, look at this t-shirt, like come here. But that's what was happening with Love Pop. And so that was kind of that initial spark. That was like, there really is like a really important demand signal that we can't ignore. And then it was only well after that, that we started making our own designs, started doing our own production, built the website. And all those foundational pieces came after we already had a pretty good idea that there was something big here.

5:41Daniel Robbins:I mean, 1 ,700 in one day at a fair, that is pretty epic. You know you're onto something right there. Let's go to Shark Tank. So you're on Shark Tank. You walk out there. Like I would probably poop my pants, to be honest. Like if I walked out on a shark tank, I don't know if I get, what was the feeling when you walked out? And then what was the feeling once you finished?

6:05Wombi Rose:Yeah. Well, exactly. Like you said, we, I mean, we were so nervous. It was nerve wracking because you stand in front of those doors, which I don't know, they're like three stories tall and you're just waiting, waiting to come out on set. And they open the doors and then you're walking down that hallway and, you know, a million things running through your minds. like are we going to say the right thing am I going to remember what I want to say when I get out there um and as soon as we got in front of the sharks it was just this moment of uh relief almost because it's like you see them and it's like these are the people you've seen like a million times and so it wasn't as scary it's like oh I know these people um obviously you don't know them you just see them on tv but it it added that familiarity so now all of a sudden we were a little bit calmer.

6:54Wombi Rose:And then we started talking about the business. And at that point, like everything else melted away. I forgot there were cameras, lights, like all, it just completely faded into the background. And we were just talking about the business and, you know, that's kind of our jam. We got into the flow. We completely didn't notice the time passing as we were going through the pitch. Um, and then of course, incredibly lucky to land a deal with Kevin.

7:18Daniel Robbins:So what, what did you find besides the deal with Kevin, the aftermath of Shark Tank in terms of visibility, sales, all that stuff. We've had a few people on that that did get deals that also did not get deals. And all of them have confirmed on their end that the Shark Tank effect was just insanity right after. Although some of them, it kind of faded. What was the impacts of Shark Tank to the business just being on there?

7:48Wombi Rose:Well, when our episode aired, it aired to seven and a half million people across the country. And we ended up with almost immediately 33 ,000 people on our website. And we were really lucky we had prepared before that with another Shark Tank company, Wicked Good Cupcakes in Boston, who had been on a few years earlier. So their CTO came over, really helped us prepare everything for that moment. And everything held together. So we had seven phone lines going. It took us a few weeks of getting through the email backlog. But it was real. And they actually did a follow-up episode a month later or so, because we did about a million dollars of sales online based on that initial Shark Tank airing and the demand kind of that came from that.

8:40Wombi Rose:And then over the years, we still have people who learn about Love Pop on Shark Tank. So it's been an incredible way for people to get to know us. And I think it's really a personification of the American dream to be on Shark Tank. And for any consumer product brand that is universal, like Love Pop, I think it makes a huge difference.

9:01Daniel Robbins:There's just something about creating, I think I've created like six failed products. I feel like I'm like, I'm way too early on things. Like I think 10 years later, I feel like every time I create something, somebody then creates it. But 10 years later, but they have money and funding. And I had not, I didn't, I didn't even have like, I should have gone to the fairs. You know, I should have got, I should have done something. I was lazy to be honest, but, but there's something about creating a product and then seeing it. So how is it for you? Like if you create the product and then you see it somewhere, like you see it on a shelf or you see it on TV.

9:37Daniel Robbins:How is that feeling for you when you see your product somewhere?

9:40Wombi Rose:I think it's one of the most rewarding things. And I have to show you more product because this is what we love to do. But our designers, when they make something like this is the Anglerfish Valentine's Day card, actually, it's just a love card. You can give it for any love occasion. But when you make something like this, we can get it into a market within a few weeks and then continue to get it out to customers. And you can see how many people have actually bought that design and given it to someone and you know that's actually made a magical moment where someone's like, oh my God, it's so cute.

10:17Wombi Rose:That's really everything that we live for at LaPau.

10:21Daniel Robbins:Obviously, the consumer good landscape has changed in terms of like, it used to be you got to get into retail stores. And then it was, you got to get into e-commerce. And now people are like, you got to get into social selling. What are you finding as a brand that are marketing channels or channels where you need or sales channels that are still highly successful to this day?

10:46Wombi Rose:Well, I think every product is different and every brand is a little bit different, but there are some principles that kind of hold true. So I'm a big believer of there's some work, There's a book, How Brands Grow. It's a great one to pick up if you're really interested in brands. And one of the main ideas there is you need mental availability. That availability can come from being on the shelf or it can come from advertising. But in some way, shape or form, you need to be aware. The consumer needs to be aware of you in their mind when they think of your category. And so for us, that's been direct to consumer.

11:23Wombi Rose:We have had a lot of success in social media advertising. We've had a lot of success in organic traction online. But for us, retail hasn't been as big of a picture. We do have seven retail locations in Disneyland, Disney World, Grand Central Station in New York, a lot of really amazing retail locations. but because our product takes up so much space to display and is really special it's actually easier to sell where we have control of kind of what the shelf looks like but that's different

11:54Daniel Robbins:for for every different product this is a very visual discussion today i don't think i've ever had a discussion with anyone that was so visual like i mean i could just sit here you could just

12:04Wombi Rose:all every two seconds just oh here we go look at this this this is a fun new one oh my god Gosh, clouded into the card. That's the magic. Love pop magic. Wow. This one actually comes out of the card. Whoa. Super cute. Brand new this year for Easter. That's amazing.

12:27Daniel Robbins:Like, that's like, I feel like I'm watching like a magic show where they're like, what's going to come out of the hat? You know, like you open up the card. That's like the hat and like something's going to pop out. That's amazing. So what was something that you had to change within yourself as a founder, as you really grew and scaled this? Like when you scaled and you said, this is a really legitimate business. It could be after Shark Tank, after a million dollar day. It could be after whatever milestone that you have. What is something you need to change within yourself?

13:00Wombi Rose:I think there's been quite a journey for me in terms of how I think about what's important. I'll give you an example of my journey in this one dimension. When I was little, I grew up in a household that was very logical and very black and white. So things were right or wrong. You had to defend your position. There was a lot of debate. And so when I went to college, that was kind of what I brought. And I remember having a debate with classmates over lunch, where it was about you know, electric vehicles and emission impacts of electric vehicles. And it was like, I started realizing it's like, this debate, it's not really landing, like something is wrong.

13:42Wombi Rose:And so after I went to grad school, I ended up consulting, which was an amazing opportunity. And I learned from my team leaders there, it's like, it's not just about the right answer. It's actually about influencing the organization. And that's not always a linear path. So yes, the right answer is important. But also there are sometimes multiple right answers. And it's just as important that people buy into what's going on. So okay, so I learned about that. And then when we started the business, I had to evolve again, because what happened was, I was figuring out how to how to influence and convince people to go in the direction that I wanted us to go in.

14:26Wombi Rose:But that direction often ended up being wrong. And so then after being wrong a bunch of times. And I remember one specific example is like, I really wanted multiple card sizes. And my co-founder really didn't want multiple card sizes, especially in the beginning. And a few years later, I just sat back and said, you're right. We should have just stuck to one size. It would have made everything so much easier. But I had convinced us that we were going to have these multiple sizes. And so then I learned it's not even about convincing people about your point of view because you might be wrong. And in fact, I'm wrong a lot.

15:03Wombi Rose:And so it's really about listening and understanding the other points of view and incorporating that into a really solid decision. And then ultimately, as I've continued to evolve, the next step on that journey has been, it's not even about me making the decisions. It's about other people making the decisions, which means finding really great people and figuring out how to work with really great people, which is an incredibly tricky and difficult skill. And so that's kind of the part of the journey where I am now. And I'm really curious what comes next. But I know that that's kind of how I've evolved over the years.

15:41Daniel Robbins:People and communication might be the two most challenging things of running a business. I can imagine, you know, as you've grown and scaled in things, at least from what I hear too, that those, if you have the people breakdown and the communication breakdown, like the whole company can collapse. When you look at launching new products and services, and I like how you brought this up, like you were going to launch a product. Your co-founder said, it's not a good idea. You didn't. And that was a great thing. How do you look at when you, when you are launching a new product and service? And the reason I ask as well is it seems a lot of people try to do too many products and services without getting really, really good at like one or two in the beginning?

16:26Wombi Rose:Yeah, I think it's a great question. How do we think about launching new product? I think one of the most important things before putting too much time or energy into a product is really understanding the customer, really understanding the problem that they're having and really understanding if your product is the solution. And at this point, is it a product? Is it a service? Is it a combination in some way? In some way, it's a solution for a customer problem. And what I've continued to find is that the customer is the only person who can tell you whether what you're doing is what they want. And they will tell you immediately if you structure the test correctly.

17:05Wombi Rose:And so, for example, a survey, would you like this? Doesn't give you any good information. An email that says, hey, here this is available to purchase right now gives you fantastic information. And so I think there's an art in structuring tests. I think what we've continued to find at LovePop, I mean, we launch 100 products a quarter almost. And we get instant feedback. So like the second we launch an email, we know whether it's working or not. So there's no question once you get it out there, other consumers responding.

17:40Daniel Robbins:Thank you for sharing that. I mean, that's amazing that you're launching so many products, but you're getting the feedback instantly, which then allows you to pivot and change in the moment. I know you have Stash that you're launching. Tell me about that.

17:57Wombi Rose:Yes, the Stash. So we did a lot of customer research and understanding and over the years as well, what helps people send more cards? And again, our mission is 1 Billion Magical Moments. We know that working on your own personal relationships and nurturing them is what makes you healthier and happier. Tons of research backed that up. And so we've been really focused on how can people send more cards? What we learned from our best customers, the people who are sending 30, 40, 50 cards a year, is that they all have a stash of greeting cards at home. It might be in a drawer, in a box. In some way, they are always ready to go.

18:35Wombi Rose:And some of those occasions you can plan out, but some things happen last minute. Maybe you have to go to a funeral last minute. Someone has a birth that you forgot about. Like you need to have cards on hand. And so that's what we heard from everyone. So we built into that a subscription program called Stash Pass, where we actually have multiple different versions of it. But you can get shipped five cards a season, five cards a quarter, and you always have the right card on hand. And it's also a way for us to give our customers some value and giving ourselves some more kind of operational certainty around how many units will need it at a certain point in time

19:11Daniel Robbins:do you ever have a moment and i like that stash i mean it makes sense like we do we all have our greeting card stash we have our card stash you know what though when you move on from relationships sometimes you have to remove the stash but some people keep the stash i don't know i guess that's that's a debatable that's a debatable talk well i mean you're talking about there's there's the

19:33Wombi Rose:You know, there's the stash of cards you've received. And then there's the stash of cards that you have yet to send. In this case, we're focused on the cards you have yet to send. Not a lot of regifting going on in the greeting card space. But we've seen it all. We've seen it all for sure. People have regifted love pops they've received, which is always funny.

19:55Daniel Robbins:Well, I could see yours because I wouldn't want to write in the card. I would want to keep it. The hard part of regifting a card is if you write in the card. But you don't see. That's funny. You don't want to write in that card.