The $2.8B Brand Builder Explains Why Your Marketing Is Failing | Ep 311 with Bill Harper Co-Founder of BrandBossHQ

0:04So I think, Bill, you and I wish we recorded everything that we've already said, but you're the$2.8 billion brand builder. this is true you have the secret you've unlocked the key as to what what makes a brand stand out and i love the fact that you talk about story since the whole reason i made this show founder stories because i also saw that the story is so i think the story is more important than the lesson that's taught from the person's perspective i'd love to hand it to you around why is the story Why are you so big about the story? Story is everything we are and do. Everything that you've ever known, everything that you have ever learned has come through story.

0:53If you go to a cocktail party tonight and decide that you just met your new best friend or the biggest jerk you ever met in your life, it's because of how you related what you believe in and what you value through story. And what has happened in business is that we think it's about dollars and cents and features and benefits, but it's not. It's about storytelling. And what is it that we believe that we're going to get from a brand that is going to change our life for the better? And that's not done when we just rattle off, you know, once upon a time, there was a three speed blender with a quick release lid for easy cleaning.

1:26Like no one can relate to that. But if what you say instead is, don't you hate it when your margaritas have lumps and your mother-in-law looks at you and goes, our margaritas never have lumps at home. And you go, damn it, I need a stronger blender with bigger blades so that I can get there. And if the company comes out and just says, we have stronger blenders with bigger blades, they don't make the connection. But if you come out and go, don't you hate it when this happens? You go, yes, that happened to me last week. I hate that that happened. I don't ever want to have that happen again. I hate that feeling.

1:58Now what we've done is we've tripped into the emotional decision-making process. I care about something, so I'm emotionally invested. Now the reward for that to the business is, tell me how your blender makes sure that I'll never have that moment again, at which point you get to talk about all the stuff that you're excited about, which is our sharper blades and our, I don't know, hurricane, cyclone, cup, whatever. Anyway, all that stuff that excites you about your product is step two. Step one is figuring out what the story is that that person needs to hear that they can relate to. And we refer to that as relevance.

2:33If you say something that is relevant to somebody, that means that it's a story they can identify with. Everybody on the planet is in one of two heat seeking modes at any given moment in time. I am either trying to achieve something or I'm trying to avoid something. The more that I see that your story shows that you give me an advantage to my situation, the more I'm emotionally invested in wanting to learn more about your company. When businesses do that, they become liquid death, dollar shave club, Nike, Disney, Apple, the rest. And the rest of us are just left to sit on the sidelines going, gosh, how did those guys do it?

3:10But to a business, the way they got there was story. And that's what I help businesses understand. What story do they need to tell to be able to scale? So I've heard this before, and I don't know if this is true, but driving people away from pain is more powerful than driving people to pleasure. What would you say about that? That is absolutely true. And it's one of the biggest things in marketing that people see and respond to, but then are terrified to try. Years ago, Wendy's came out with Where's the Beef, right? And the whole idea was that they had these square hamburgers that stuck out of the buns, right?

3:46And they were like, well, our hamburgers are weird and they're square and they stick out of the buns. Now, they could have come out and said, we make bigger hamburgers, and that would have been delightful and lovely and whatever, and no one would have paid any attention. Instead, they said, if you can't see the meat, then the bun's too big and you're getting scammed. And what they did there was they caused this thing that no one had ever thought about before. People had been getting McDonald's and Burger King hamburgers forever and never thought twice about it. Wendy's came out and said, where's the beef, dude?

4:14And every single person was like, I mean, to the point where it became a cultural phenomenon, everybody was looking at him and going, you know, they bring up a good point. We should have more meat on our hamburgers. And that thing is what led Wendy's to take its rightful place alongside those two culture or industry giants. Right. Before then, when Wendy's came out and I'm old enough to remember when it did, they didn't have any standing at all. It was very much like what Chick-fil-A did with the cows, right? Chick-fil-A came out and they could have said, well, we make chicken sandwiches and that's fantastic.

4:48And instead, they had a bunch of cows say, stop eating us, eat more chicken. And that thing became so playful and such a fun story that everybody was like, yeah, I'll go give them a try. Let's see if the cows know what they're talking about. That sort of playful nature in messaging, which we refer to as edutainment, is the difference between a company that succeeds and becomes a category powerhouse and one that just brambles along until they ultimately fail. I think some people are like, well, my industry is boring. And I know you were just giving me the examples of insurance. Can you talk about that?

5:23Because I think people might see, oh, well, these are these are like fun things. You can create fun in these industries, but my industry is just dead boring. Like there's no way that I can create something. And what I do, that's going to stick around. There is no industry on the planet. Let me say it again so the folks at home can hear. There is no industry on the planet that cannot be made fun and interesting. Not one. And insurance is a phenomenal example because people hate insurance and there is literally no difference between any provider. OK, you are literally buying based on story. And so here are a couple of stories that stand out in the marketplace.

6:02Geico is for people who prize time and money, 15 minutes or less, 15 percent or more. They own that. Progressive understands that people hate insurance and all they want to know in the world is that you are going to serve me no matter what, because I'm paying for this ridiculous thing that I hate in the first place. So Flo and her band of merry men are all there to serve at the master's feet whenever they can. Farmers is all about experience. We know a few things because we've seen a few things. And Allstate is all about showing how it feels to have life throw you awful curveballs through this funny character called mayhem.

6:42And so for each one of us, we gravitate to a particular type of solution. Hey, I'm really serious about my time and my money. You're a Geico person. Hey, I don't care about any of this. I just want you to serve me. You're a progressive person. Hey, I really want to know that you've got experience. You're over at Farmers. And please, I hate all of this. Just make me laugh. Those folks are going to be over at Allstate. There's nothing wrong with any story. The question is, what story is most appropriate for your business? What's the one that feels the most like you? The tone is most aligned with who you all are as people.

7:15And then we build on that to go out into market. And that's where all of it really takes root and becomes an advantage to your growth. You know, the wild thing is, as you're talking through these taglines or these storylines, I can remember all of them, even going back to like, like, was it time to make, where's the beef? Yeah. Time to make the donuts. Where's the beef? Yeah. The easy, the easy button from Staples. Like if you think back on the companies that stood forward, like I think, think about this for just a second. Liquid Death is the least innovative company on the face of the planet.

7:52Least innovative company. They put flavored water in a can. Do you have any idea how many hundreds and thousands of competitors that they have? But they understood that people standing at a party didn't always want to drink beer. And you didn't want to just drink a water because you felt like a dork at the party. So what they did was they said, well, what if you had an impure water brand? Not unpure, but impure. If all the rest of the water brands were Pollyanna running around saying, we're pure, we're pure, we're pure. What would happen if you imagined an irreverent older brother water company that stumbled in the house drunk at two in the morning?

8:31That's what Liquid Death became. They became the irreverent alternative to going out and just being regular water brands. So when I go to a party now, if I don't feel like drinking a beer, I can still hold something that kind of makes it fit into the crowd, but it's water and it's all cool. And in solving that social problem and in telling that story in a really fun way, which Liquid Death excels at, they have scaled in eight and a half years to be worth over a billion dollars in valuation. Most companies would cut off their right arm to have that kind of scale and growth. But in order to get there, you have to have a story that your target audience can relate to it's it's insane and it reminds me of dollar shave club and and the use of i think that was like really the first um major use of humor but but like like you're saying edgy humor on something that was uh you know not food related that you know a shave like a shaver like you said their shavers were pretty horrible in my experience when i use It was a terrible shaver.

9:35But people bought it. And I mean, how fast it grew is quite insane. So can you, and by the way, I couldn't help but think before about State Farm. Because every time I see someone named Jake, I always say Jake from State Farm. It's pretty bad. Like how this stuff sticks with us. I can't even remember like important things in my life. But I can remember these things. What are some of the steps that business owners can take now? Because I think we're all sold on like, look, we need the story. No story, no glory. We need these things, but how do I even go about doing this because I am not someone that's a good storyteller?

10:13Number one is you've got to identify one thing that the brand stands for. It is incredibly difficult when businesses keep pivoting to create the reputation and the momentum that's necessary to build expectation. A brand is nothing more than expectation. If I say James Bond movie, you know exactly what you're going to get. If I say McDonald's French fries, you know exactly what you're going to get. And the reason is because there is consistency in the thing that is represented, right? James Bond is always loyal to a fault, physically fit. He always gets the bad guy. He always gets the girl and he always has gadgets and he's always shaken, not stirred.

10:52Now that's different than the international spy that is Jason Bourne, right? And that's different than Austin Powers or Ethan Hunt, all of whom are basically commodity products, the same thing. So the first thing that we got to do is we got to decide what is it that we're really selling. So in the case of say Volvo, and I use cars because they're easy, Volvo just sells safety and they never deviate off that message. Porsche only sells performance. Mercedes only sells luxury. Prius only sells saving the world one gas tank at a time. Figuring out what your company represents as an idea is step number one.

11:30Step number two is changing all of your messaging to showing people how your solution changes their circumstance for the better. Not describing your solution, but talking about how you change their circumstance for the better. Let's show you an unsafe solution and then let's show you how Volvo keeps it safe. Or let's show you a car that's crunched on both sides, but the cabin stays undamaged. These stories relay the value of the brand without boring the audience to death with a list of the features and benefits. And that's the big thing that's different. The other thing is understanding that the funnel, the marketing funnel, is very specific.

12:10At the top at awareness, you're looking to excite people. This is where Jeep shows you driving through streams and up rocks and crazy mountains and things like that. They're not talking about the gas mileage. They're not talking about shock absorbers or the buy this weekend. That comes later in the process. As you move down, it goes, why should I emotionally engage? Step two is, is my emotional engagement justified? Tell me something about the product that makes me believe that it would be a good choice to be emotionally engaged. The next one is, why should I buy now? And then the next level down is once I've bought, how do I continue to stay with the brand?

12:48That set of four stages is really important. If you can master those things, what is your, what is your one story? How can we get everything that we talk about to show you how we make your life better and making sure that you've covered all four of the bases in that marketing funnel, you're going to be ahead of 95 % of the businesses on the planet. Man, I'm going to take what you just said. I'm going to plug that into Claude and I'm have Claude help me start to figure out what those things are. I mean, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Something I'm really, really excited about are how social media videos now are transforming ads.

13:28I was just watching a video yesterday and what I've noticed is they're hiring these people that do comedic videos on social media, like these comedic shorts, and they make a really funny video. But in the end, it's an ad. And then I'm like, oh, at the end, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was an ad. And then I like to read the comments to see. And everyone's like shocked. Like that was the most entertaining, like the edutainment. That was the most entertaining video. But they're hiring. I don't know what your thoughts on this, but they're basically hiring comedy people. I talked to ClickUp. I don't know if you're familiar with ClickUp.

14:03so they said that they went to uh they went to comedy shows and hired these like actors who are not really acting very much but they're trying because they're cheaper than hiring content creators and they paid them like their day rate just to pump out content but but and now a few of them are like full-time and now they're full-time the click of making this content but they've also gone on now and their content is like really huge. Funny makes money. Everybody loves comedy. Everybody loves to be entertained. And the thing of it is the faster you get to an entertainment level, the more sticky and engaging your, your material is the challenges that businesses think it's about being serious.

14:50The funny part of it is that they enjoy the funny content just as much as everybody else does. But the second they walk into their own building, they drop right back into the silo that says, this is business. This is very important. It's very serious. And the problem is, is that that's not how people buy. So the internal team has all got their arms crossed saying, we're very serious and our product is better than everybody else. And the average consumer is like, dude, I got 10 seconds before I have to pick up my daughter at recital. If I forget to get mayonnaise, my wife is going to yell at me.

15:21I got a new boss. I can't stand this guy in front of me won't go out of green light. Their whole life is like 15 pounds of reality shoved in a five pound sack. What they're desperate for is, yeah, I got to solve the problem. But for the love of goodness, man, just entertain me along the way. And if businesses understood that that was true more than they do, they would stop being the stuff shirt, boring things that they are. And they would start attracting real people to come by from them. And once that happens, once they truly understand it, you can't unsee it. Then it becomes a thing that you get hungry for.

15:57Now I want that because I really liked it. People talked more about me. They shared my stuff because it was worth sharing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That momentum is what builds business. I watched this one. It's like the Brooklyn coffee shop and they've just like propelled to the stratosphere. It's like a coffee shop that they have these two people and it's a real coffee shop, but it's like a fake coffee shop. And it's just a story every day. And I was listening to somebody else walking through how they're looking at basically brands creating like a movie or a TV show, like a short one that they ongoing do that just integrates the brand into it.

16:39But it's not, the show is not about the brand. Like there's a guy who writes these notes all around this resort and he's always writing these notes to people and it's like a whole story. But the resort is the actual brand that owns the TV show. Or like luggage, it's like a couple and these friends that moved to New York City and they're always moving around with this luggage. And there's like a whole story in dating and moving to the city. But the luggage is the one that's paying for this show. How do you see this going forward in terms of brands creating this type of content that is basically like an ongoing story?

17:16There is no doubt that the opportunity to become a creative engine more along the lines of a production company exists for every business. It is, however, a significant transition, right? To go Netflix transition from I distribute pre-made movie content to I am a series creator is a significant transition and not everybody can make that journey, right? They can hardly get to the edutainment phase as it is, like creating themselves or recreating themselves as a movie studio or a television series production company is almost like completely beyond the stratosphere of their consideration. But I don't think that you have to go that far.

17:59One of the funniest, most effective things that I have seen in the last couple of months was a series of posts that were done by Little Caesars. And Little Caesars, when I was young and coming up, was really funny. That That was back in the pizza, pizza time. Right. And there were some hysterical spots that were done, like the lucky day guy where everything he did was lucky. It was like, you found my wallet. I have a brother. Like there were all these like just super fortuitous weirdo things. Well, anyway, they, they did a post recently and it was really interesting because it was supposedly a guy that worked at the pizza shop or I'm sorry, visiting a pizza shop, picking up a pizza who relayed how this guy came in to rob the Little Caesars.

18:43And the guy behind the counter jumped over the counter and the pizza and took out the guy. And he's writing this whole thing. I was standing there and I went in to get my pizza and this guy came in and then he threatened the thing. And the guy did this judo move and this kung fu thing and went out through this. And then he did this and then he tied him up with his belt. And then he went around and was like, that'll be$9 for the pizza. Right. And it was one of the most entertaining things that I'd ever read. I'm glued to this thing. And there were millions of views on these like little Caesars posts that were just these really well-written, funny, completely ridiculous scenarios, but you earned their attention, right?

19:23That was the thing, just like a movie, just like a good TV show, you earned the attention of the viewer. And that's what businesses need to do if they want to convert them into sales. I like that, Ernie. It's like Duolingo. And then they killed off the mascot and such and such. And they really, it really transformed like that short period of time, transformed the brand. And I love what you're saying, because I've seen this too, where brands, they don't spend a huge amount of money. They do something like there's the sign guy in TikTok, very controversial. A lot of people hate him, but a lot of people love him.

19:56Like there's, I saw a restaurant that does something similar where they're just, it's cheap. It's not spending a lot of money. They're doing it very cheaply, but it's really, it's creating, like you said, the attention. It's grabbing the attention because our attention is very short. You were saying something before because I know you have, I don't know if it's a book about Steve Jobs at the bottom. Tell me about Steve Jobs. The thing that I think is so amazing about this particular quote is all about the mindset, Right. And one of the things that he famously said was when he was first starting Apple, I pushed the universe and it moved.

20:34And I was so surprised at the reaction. I pushed it again to see what would happen next. And I wish that more business owners would take that same mentality when it came to creating marketing. I think if they would let go of their mindset that marketing has to be serious and it has to be about how great our product is and the rest of it, and we have to do it just like everybody else because that's how it's done, they don't realize how much they're hurting themselves. If they would look at things in terms of what if instead of what is, which is exactly what that quote from Steve Jobs is all about, they would open up for themselves an entirely new way to think about their position in the category and the way that they talk to consumers and the way that they related to them that would have a profoundly positive impact on their businesses.

21:21And it has been proven by brands like Nike and Disney and Apple and Dollar Shave Club and Poopery and the list goes on and on. They see it as individuals, but they just can't make the jump as business owners. That hurdle is what we spend the majority of our time in advertising businesses, helping customers get across. It's kind of amazing when I think about like Apple started by these two people, like Disney started by this one guy, Walmart started by this one person. it's kind of wild to think because now nowadays it's like okay if you want to create something big you you start something and you get a massive funding and you do all these things but you look at these legacy brands and you're like it was started by one person who had like one idea who made like one product who did something kind of is almost like they did something kind of simple back then obviously i know times have changed how do you how do you see ai playing into this Because you have people arguing about the AI slop, no original ideas.

22:22AI can create, but it's kind of boring and maybe human's better or AI is better. What do you think about all this? There's a lot that we could go into, but very simply, AI is great for minimizing redundant tasks. It's phenomenal for that. It's also great for evaluating great amounts of data, right? If you're trying to understand how something has performed over years, those kinds of things are great. It's also phenomenal and has leveled the playing field in terms of allowing any business to create print or video or things like that at the same level as anybody else. Nike no longer has an advantage over my agency in terms of ability to create creative assets.

23:06I can go and create something that's at that level now. And that's been proven by multiple brands, but it doesn't replace the experience of knowing what things are funny, what things will work, how will strategy work. The large language model that's behind an AI is trying to amass from all of these different things that have happened. Here's the common denominator. When that thing keeps getting served up, it's no longer original. It has never been original because what they're doing is they're saying, well, these are the things that worked. And here's the aggregate of that response. That's going to lead a lot of businesses to some very poor decision-making about how to use it.

23:44The companies that are using AI well are the ones that are using it as an efficiency tool or as a creative tool, not as a solution to the thinking or the strategy in the first place. AI just can't do that, at least not at this level. Let's see what happens with all these agents. But I like what you're saying. I haven't thought about how it's creating the answer is not an original thought because it's just take it from all these other things to guess or estimate what it thinks that you want to hear. I got to say, it's good if you want a best friend that tells you all you want to know, tells you only things that you want to hear, and you never want to hear anything bad.

24:26We wrote this book here called Unlimited Possibilities. and the reason I wrote this book is I thought back to when I was younger, all these things I wanted to do in life and then as I got older, I tried to achieve those things and I call them the unlimited possibilities. What was for you something when you think back to when you were younger that you then achieved later on in life and now thinking about those things, you're pretty amazed? The biggest thing I think was starting a company in the first place. The first time that we did that, I was invited to be a part of a company that was just starting, and I was very nervous about it and very afraid of it.

25:04Five businesses later, I see it as the most freeing, most creative direction possible. Understanding your craft to a point where you feel confident standing in front of absolutely anybody is the most empowering thing you can possibly have happen. And owning your own company just facilitates that. You are going to fail, learn, and proceed at a rate like none other if you are in your own environment. And what that does for your ability to stand firm on your subject because you're not looking to your boss, did they approve of what you said, et cetera, is one of those big, big opening moments. And I think it isn't for everybody.

25:47There's a lot of hard work. I think people oversimplify it and they think to themselves, Oh, I'm not going to have a boss. No, that's not the way that works. Now what you have is 10 bosses because every client you have is a boss, right? So it's different. It's just not what you're used to, but it isn't like it's, you know, we don't sit around eating bonbons because we own a company. Like that's not how that works at all. So it isn't for everybody, but if you get the chance to try that sometime in your life, whether that is a lawn mowing service or it's a small company as a solopreneur or it's a small partnership that does something, your perspective on how business works, how people buy into things, why they do, as it is now all your responsibility, is one of the most expanding mind things that you can possibly do for yourself to say nothing of your empowerment and confidence in terms of what you're capable of.