The Coach Who Transformed Steve Jobs: Why Most Leaders Never Reach Their Potential - John Mattone | Ep. 198

0:05Hey everyone, welcome back to Founder Story. Today we have John Matone and John Matone is the founder of John Matone Global. And John, you have had the pleasure of being one of the world's number one executive coaches. I love the introductory video on your website, and it talks about you working with people like Steve Jobs and other incredibly well-known and famous individuals. But you've really been a trailblazer in leadership transformation, and you've been doing this for many years. And I'm sure you are full of incredible insights today that we're going to dive into. But first, what made you become this number one transformative coach?

0:49And why did you get into this industry? Daniel, first of all, great to be on the show here. It's been an evolution. I got out of graduate school many, many years ago. Started my first job at Conoco, the oil company, and discovered I was a pretty good trainer. And I got a lot of feedback from executives at Conoco saying you should start a business. So for 10 years, I ran around the world. My wife and I raised our family of four. But I was never home. Wrote a couple books during those 10 years. Was not doing any coaching, Daniel, at that time. It was just basically speaking and training and so on and so forth.

1:32And was, quite frankly, unsuccessful. successful. One of the books that I had written, Success Yourself, emerged later, which I'll get to in a second, 2010. Went back into the corporate world for 15 years and really, honestly, grew tremendously as a person, as a professional. Had an opportunity to do some coaching in a role that I was in going back a few years ago, a number of years ago, and really, really liked it. In fact, I applied the concepts that were written about in that book, Success Yourself, that failed. And I had executives saying, boy, this is just absolutely incredible. So I knew I had something, but I wasn't sure how to bring it.

2:16I was just unclear about the vision for it, but I knew that I wanted to coach. I wasn't really sure what was going to happen next. Long story short, steve jobs picked up my book in 2010 about a year before he passed was intrigued with the concepts in the book i had the opportunity to meet him uh and coach him i had five coaching sessions with him that were uh transformative and i will tell you that uh in a second coaching session that i had with him he told me he said you know what he was learning uh i say this very humbly um uh with me. If he had applied in his 30s and 40s, he would have been a better father, better husband, better leader.

2:59And let me tell you what, I wasn't even sure. I get chills sharing that with you and the listeners here. But there was a transformation that day. I knew I had the coach and I still wasn't sure how to do it though. And it was a number of months later, I had a calling to do this work. I launched John Matone Global in 2011. I've written 11 books, five bestsellers. But the most exciting thing is that we're bringing my coaching philosophy and process and tools to the world. 55 countries now, and John Matone Global is growing significantly. So it's been an evolution, Daniel. It really has been. Sounds like an overnight success story.

3:48I love that. That took, you know, 20 years, 20 years. How was the, so let's go back to Steve Jobs because I'm very fascinated by, um, by the fact that it was towards the end of his life and he was reflecting about how he was as a leader and the changes he could have made, which I find very interesting. Yeah. Uh, what was that? How was that feeling of getting that call and then now coaching him because it sounds like even at that time you were still 100 % unsure as to like coaching as a career yeah I don't I don't know if it's I think it was only till recently maybe that coaching has become a lot more popular and we find a lot more people want to be a coach but much less at that time so going back to that time how was that feeling and what was that first phone call like or first meeting?

4:43Listen, I got, I got, I had chills and I struggled for a few years because I actually said to myself, I got lucky. And other than my wife and a couple really close people really didn't even know, I wasn't sure how to actually bring it to the world. And I had a lot It took me a few years to kind of open up, you know, and now just about everybody knows I had this incredible opportunity. So looking back on it, I don't think I was lucky, Daniel. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't think the incredible things that have happened to me, my family, and the business would have happened if it wasn't meant to be, honestly.

5:34I look back on it. It was not lucky. It was meant to be. And I'm very humbled, you know, that I had this incredible opportunity. I would say that, you know, one thing that is core, I think, in growth of a human being is making the decision to be vulnerable. If you don't make that decision, you're done. In this world today, things are moving so, so quickly. You're going to stagnate. You're going to die, you know. And one element, I'm sure parents listening in, we teach this to our children to be vulnerable, open, open, listen to the teachers and you go to church, you listen. I would say that Steve Jobs, it took dying from pancreatic cancer to embrace being vulnerable.

6:25And with him saying to me that he could have actually been vulnerable at a younger age and would have grown more and would have been a better human being was, to me, an important tenet that I took with me. And that's what I bring to the world now that, listen, you want to become better. Yeah, think differently, think big. But you've got to consciously make that decision to be vulnerable, to ignite growth in yourself, your team, your family, so on and so forth. If I think back to the most famously known leaders, especially if they were men, I don't really see them ever being vulnerable. Maybe I think it's only until recently that I know leaders that are more open to being vulnerable.

7:12What do you think is the change that is happening and what change needs to happen in order for people to embrace this? Yeah, I would say that, you know, I think the association of greatness and leadership has been overly tied to drive, you know, achievement, the ambition, you know, be tough and so on and so forth. And I think with generational changes and this whole notion of recognizing, Daniel, that you can drive and be achievement-oriented and ambitious, but you can also have a heart. You can have the courage, and that's what it takes, to show your heart and be compassionate, care for others.

8:00Those two worlds coexist beautifully. OK. And when they coexist beautifully, what ends up happening is you don't compromise either side of the equation. The equation gets stronger in terms of building a culture. You know, we talk about culture ultimately. Right. And same thing in our families, too. There are some family cultures that are not good and there are some family cultures that are really good. Where's that come from? It comes from leadership and it's instilling belief, right, in the children that they can execute what needs to be executed. They can achieve their dreams and so on and so forth.

8:40So I think it's a global recognition that these two worlds can coexist beautifully. And in fact, if you look at the results of great businesses and great leaders, I'd say the last 25, 30 years, we're going to see people who can embrace and embody both sides of that equation. So I know you've impacted over a million people and thousands of organizations. I would imagine if you ask most people in a leadership role, whether it's corporate or an entrepreneur or somebody that's in business, they want to reach their full potential. So what, how do you ensure or what advice or strategies do you give to people in order to do so?

9:29Because I think, at least for me, I mean, that is what I always strive to do is I want to be the best version of myself, whether that's, you know, in a relationship with my wife, or that's in business, or that's showing up to my teams. But I also want to, you know, I want to make the most money, I want to be the most successful, I want to impact the most. And I think all of this ties down to me reaching my full potential, but how do I get there? It's a process. And so I believe in measurement. I think it's important to recognize that the inner core, otherwise known as the soul, Daniel, is very multifaceted, very complex.

10:08But ultimately, what I've learned is that if your soul and your inner core is strong and mature and vibrant, what does that mean? Self-image balanced. You know, as soon as you get out of the balanced self-image and you become an egomaniac, right, and you go too far in the other direction, you've got a problem in the world of leadership today. Proper value system, thinking patterns that are strong, mature, and vibrant, belief system, character is an inner core thing. What I've learned is that the inner core drives the outer core. So the work that I do as an executive coach, working with some of the top CEOs, government leaders in the world, very humbly said, we start with measurement.

10:52Let's calibrate how strong your inner core is. Let's calibrate how strong your outer core is. We use 360s. We do objective assessments. I watch them. I observe them. And then what we do is we co-create a strategy, just like a business. It's literally parallel universe. You know, if you want to become the best, just like you were talking about, how do I become the best that I can be? You got to execute a strategy. What are your gifts and strengths that we can make stronger? And what are the things that are getting in the way now or could get in the way? Let's put a strategy together. It's very practical.

11:24And we're going to work together to hold you accountable, you know, and we're going to involve stakeholders, people around you to hold you accountable. And then we execute. And then what we do is we go back and we remeasure again. So executive coaching, the way I do it, very measurement-oriented, very process-oriented. And ultimately, here's the thing. I really believe we're all put on the earth to create a masterpiece. I can tell you that when I work with top people, they've accomplished a lot. But they recognize that, listen, a good portion of their masterpiece may have been built, but they're not there yet.

12:06And that is the key. And I think all of us is recognizing that it doesn't matter who you are and what you've accomplished, you still got a long way to go. OK, most people die not having created the masterpiece. That's what drives me and my team to help, you know, leaders all over the world in organizations ultimately create the masterpiece they were put on you to create. And, you know, that ultimately, that ultimate vision is the overarching thing where the strategy comes alive. You know what I'm saying? Because a strategy only makes sense if it's connected to a higher order purpose. That make sense?

12:51Yeah. You know what I find? I'm glad you bring this up. the most successful people recognize that you know they need to get better and that are not perfect and they're they're almost more it's almost they're more humble in many ways than people that are maybe just one or two years in and think that you know they're at this level of success or a few years in but when they've been many many years in they realize uh that they are not perfect and they can learn from other people. I'll give an example. I used to, I used to consult for organizations. The first phone call I had, um, the CEO tried to make me quit and it was the most uncomfortable thing.

13:34And I, I didn't want to do it anymore, but he said he was just testing me because it was just ways that he could build trust. How do you find when, when you coach these people, how do you build trust and rapport because they have to listen to you. I'm sure you have to tell them things about themselves that they may not even want to hear. Many people don't like to hear feedback, right? Some do. But how do you build this rapport and trust? And do you find that these people, the more successful they are, the more humble they are to listen? Well, yeah, a couple of things. You got to build rapport, trust, and credibility pretty quick.

14:12I'm going to be I'm fortunate in that I've got a little bit of a reputation out there. OK, some of the younger coaches who are just starting out, they've got to work harder. They've got to build a pedigree. You know, you know, when you write books and you're out there and people kind of know who you are, it doesn't give you, you know, you don't have free reign. You still got to prove yourself. It's like an athlete. You got to show up. You got to you got to execute. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your average is. You know, you could have 25 points a game. You still got to show up. So that's my attitude.

14:43And I think the other thing, too, is people got to see you as human, Daniel. You know, they got to see that, boy, you know, here's this guy, Mattone, he's accomplished a lot, but he's had a lot of setbacks, too. You know, a lot of failure. And I'm very open about that. You know, I share. I share a lot about that. And that often helps build the trust and rapport. The other thing that gets everybody is this whole notion of, you know, the questions that I ask are big, you know, like, for example, what's the vision of the essence of the personal leader that you must become? And people often spot me and they say, well, what do you mean must become?

15:24And I always say, listen, everybody walks around and they say, hey, this is what I want to accomplish. The best of the best ask themselves the best questions. and the best questions are the ones that ignite change. What's the vision of the essence of the leader person that you must become? What is that masterpiece that you put on the earth to create? What does that look like? And how far along are you? And let me tell you what, when I start to have those conversations and I have them pretty early with my clients, they look at me and they say, this is interesting, you know, and I've never been asked these questions before.

16:01So I think I think those things are really, really important. And I think also, um, executive coaching, uh, has got a, in many respects, a bad name because they, a lot of people have a perception that it's session based, you know, Hey, you know, I get to sit down with my coach and, you know, and I'm busy and I'm not sure I really want to do this. We built, uh, at John Matone Global, and I guess I built it is a process, you know, and it's just like, uh, if you follow the process and I'm here to help you heart, mind, and soul, you know, guess what? We, we're, we're going to measure, we're going to diagnose, we're going to co-create a strategy, and then we're going to execute together.

16:46And we are going to absolutely create that masterpiece together. I can't do it alone. you can't do it alone. So that's sort of how I work, you know, and I teach that to coaches all over the world. Can you explain more about that? And I also want to thank you for your answer before, because I think a lot of people, um, maybe they want to coach. They, they have to realize that they, you know, building up their personal brand in the industry that they're in building up what they're known for, building up just the success in coaching is required to be, you know, an excellent coach. I think it's one of those things where anyone, I guess, could just, you know, title themselves a coach, even with little experience.

17:30But I'm glad that you have laid down the framework in a sense that, you know, it requires a lot of work, a lot of building up yourself, a lot of things to achieve before you can really hit, you know, high levels of success. us, I think, as a coach. But can you explain more about the intelligent leadership framework? Yeah. So intelligent leadership, the short definition is it's about heart, mind, and soul. We have no shortage of intellect in the world, Daniel. There's so many people with high IQs running around, yet we've got massive problems all over the world. And what it comes down to often in leadership, and this is a function of just how fast we're moving and the orientation around technology is that the heart and soul, you know, in many respects got lost.

18:21The pandemic was a magnifier on that, that those organizations that did not attend the heart and soul before the pandemic are out of business. Just go back to the Jim Collins book that was written, what, 24 years ago. Many of those companies do not exist anymore. And actually, if you look at the research, right, How quickly you can evaporate, even these big companies. So I believe that we've got this great intellect, so we've got a skewed distribution on intellect in the world of business. But the skew is the other way in terms of leadership. And we must work extremely hard to close that gap. And I believe we've got to amp up heart and soul.

19:09What does that mean? compassion, care for others, you know, the value of altruism, very, very important. And an orientation around just being more self-aware, you know. When you put your head on the pillow at night, what did I do well today to bring abundance to the world? Where did I fall short, you know? And just allowing those experiences to enter your soul allows you to wake up the next day and say, you know something? I'm going to do better today with respect to my execution as a human being. We need more of that in order to close the leadership gap. And ironically, it is slowing down, you know.

19:57And so to me, the greatest leaders that I've ever worked with, Daniel, and I've worked with some big time people, they have learned that despite the pace of their lives and their businesses, the extent to which they can slow down, go deep into their soul, analyze what's working, what's not working, and then commit with the coach to do something different and better tomorrow is the absolute key. for all of us. And so I've learned a lot, you know, I think I've learned more, honestly, in the world that I'm in as a coach. I can't believe what I've been able to learn. I mean, look what Steve Jobs taught me in five sessions.

20:43You know what I'm saying? I learned more from him than he learned from me. I'll guarantee it, you know. So I don't know if I answered it, but that would be my take on it. Yeah, no, I mean, you brought up a lot of things and it made me think about the reason why we even started the show five years ago is we wanted to impact 100 million people. And the amazing part about it is I've learned so much by talking to people like yourself. I could write a book right now about the things that I've learned just in the last 20 minutes and things that while you're talking, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I need to implement this.

21:25I need to apply this. I'm going to I'm going to look at this. I'm thinking about it as you're talking about the things that I'm going to go back after this conversation and really start to reconsider and look at. So I am I can totally, you know, understand, you know, from my own perspectives about what you're saying. Obviously, I haven't been doing things as long as you, Um, but I can totally see that, uh, it's like a reciprocal relationship when you work with people and you're both growing at the same time. So I'm curious from, from you though, who is a mentor coach? Who is somebody that has, you know, besides, besides the learnings from Steve jobs, has there somebody that coached you or somebody that was a mentor to you, um, that you'd maybe want to say who's been really special?

22:15There have been multiple mentors. I continue to have not an official board of directors, but I have a team of advisors. My wife is one of those advisors. My wife, Gail, 46 years, married. Daniel, the luckiest guy, really, honestly, to have a pillar like Gail as leader of our family, really, honestly, with four kids and eight grandchildren. children she's taught me so so much my wife is number one uh my parents um no longer with us but my my dad dominant mctonne was an incredible leader in the united states air force i learned so much from my dad my mother uh and uh my father and mother-in-law also no longer with us um so those people were critical you know uh in in teaching me really really important things um i got a first job uh at conoco i was fortunate i i had a gentleman by the name of lou larson who believed in me lou 65 66 years old here i am 20 what 24 and he looked at me he said i don't know i might have to take a risk on you matone i there's something about you you know and uh And he took the risk, you know, and here, you know, you know, Daniel, right?

23:38The greatest mentors, they believe in you more than you believe in yourself. You know, you got to catch up. And so Lou was incredible. But I just look back on the years. So many, so many people had touched my heart, my mind and my soul to make me better. And it continues today. You know, I think that's one of the things that enriches me, you know, is that I'm still learning and will continue to learn until the day you stop. See, that's humbling. I think everyone can learn from that. One is I feel the same way about my wife, that I am also very lucky and she is my number one advisor for sure. Like I fall to the people.

24:22and she's there to you know to help uh ground me because i'm all over the place and then uh everything else that you said around like the job i can relate to that too having there was one person i can think back that really believed in me more than i and i would not have been in my corporate job i would have never been promoted if that one person didn't really take me under their wing. I think it really, it really talks to the importance too of, of us almost paying that forward. Obviously now you kind of pay that forward in your career, like you are a coach and you are, but for other people, no matter what their role is, I think we don't always, we don't always are cognizant or thinking about, Hey, how can I pay this forward to the next person?

25:09We also never know what people will become. You know, the amazing thing is you might help someone that I'm sure he never knew at 24 he was going to help John Matone, one of the world's greatest executive coaches. So you just never know, you know, what's going to become of someone. So listen, I, one of the, you know, one of the things, uh, was, uh, I, I met my, uh, uh, my uncle, Joseph Matone passed away last year. Joseph and my dad were first cousins, uh, Italy and then, and then New York. I never met Joseph. Joseph ended up becoming a famous lawyer in New York and so on and so forth. And I couldn't, I remember my dad talking about, I never met Joseph.

25:55And it was a few years ago, he wrote to me, go, you Dominic's son? And I said, yes. And he goes, John, come up to New York. I got to meet you, you know, your blood. And I walked into his law office at, what was he at the time? I'm 85, Daniel, 85, 86. And he looks just like my dad. It was incredible, you know? And he taught me about philanthropy. You know, he said, John, you're doing amazing in your career. Be very, very proud of what you've accomplished. You got to give back. You got to give back. And I got to tell you, I wasn't going to bring this up today, but now you're bringing this up. And it's not about the money or whatever, just being a mentor to somebody.

26:35But Joseph ended up giving millions of dollars to St. John's University. Uh, and the, the, the law library, the St. John's named after Joseph and the tall. And when I left the dinner with Joseph and the family, and now I'm close to that whole side of the family, Joseph passed away last year. I got home to Orlando and I said, the wife, you always said, you know something, we got to, we got to create a couple of scholarships, you know, for the younger people. and that's what we've done. So Gail and I committed to, you know, creating a couple of endowed scholarships at the University of Central Florida, where I got my master's degree, to do exactly what you're talking about, provide the opportunities for the younger people, the incredible young talent that we've got, so they can become the best that they can be.

27:28And you know, right, a lot of the resources out there for the younger people aren't there, You know, so whatever we could do to help was something that I was really passionate about doing, both my wife and I in our family. It's so easy to criticize younger generations instead of trying to uplift them and realize that we can help. We're always as a as a species, we are very easy to say that they're lazy or this or that. they're always doing the wrong thing versus like, okay, how can I help somebody who's maybe in their twenties be the best leader that they can be? Um, so I, I like your train of thought, uh, amazing how your uncle, even in the last, you know, the last, uh, 10 % of his life was able to teach you something in his eighties.

28:16I'm really inspired by your ability to really learn from everyone. I'm very inspired by that. I'm very inspired, humbled. I'm super appreciative that you were even here today. By the way, I also went to college in Orlando, but I didn't really finish though. So I can't sell you. That's okay. But John, this has been really amazing. If people want to get in touch with you, they want to find out more information. Maybe they want to work with you. Maybe they want to buy your book. How can they do so? Yeah, just hit the website, johnmatone.com. We just launched our new website. We're really excited about it, Daniel.

28:53They could send an email to our CEO, Nicholas Matone, Nick at JohnMatone.com to send an email to Nick. And he loves to talk with everybody. And so I think that's the best way, website and email. You have an actor's name, John Matone. that's like if if for some reason you retire from coaching and you want to be an actor i feel like it's a shoo-in uh john matone is like the the prime character of a movie uh but john this has been great i learned a lot today i thank you for giving me 30 minutes of your time i think the audience is going to also take away a lot uh and i'd love to have you come back a few months and a year from now, hear what's going on then.

29:41But thank you so much for joining us today on Founder's Story. It's been an honor, Daniel. Great to meet you. Great conversation. I learned a lot too. I really appreciate it.