The Truth About Founder Wealth | Ep 302 with Julian Metcalfe Founder of Pret a Manger and itsu

0:04So Julian, I'm so excited to have you today. I mean, I've been to the restaurants that you founded for many, many years. I've seen them all around the world. I've tried them all around the world. And just I can imagine how what it's like to be a founder of a business where you could go in many different countries around the world. And you see you see that thing that you started your baby, that thing that you created. I'd love to understand because I know you're doing so many other things and we could get into all that. But Julian, what is it like when you're walking down the street and you see Pret a Manger?

0:43And I know there's like a thousand stores all around the world. What's that feeling like? OK, that's a perfectly good question. But it's a question which is in my I reckon of no interest to your viewers, because if I wanted to be a founder and I was loyal and listening to your show, what I really want to try and understand is how do I become a founder successfully? What do I have to do? And can I learn anything from this old man at all? Is he going to say anything which triggers emotions and connection for me? And I hope that's what I'll do. That's the reason I'm very happy to do this show with you is because maybe I can teach something because in my day we didn't have podcasts.

1:29So I had to learn the hard way. I didn't get any help from anybody. But the feeling that to answer the question, when I walk down and see a prêt -à-manger anywhere in the world, you know what? I really don't give a damn. I look at it. I judge it. Is it good? Is it bad? Do the staff look happy? Is the food good? And then I realize there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well walk away. So I don't care. It's not connected. Sadly, you know, I don't own any of it. I can't influence it. The people who run it have no interest in working with me. it would. So that's fine. That's a prerogative.

2:04So I don't give a damn. I appreciate the answer, by the way. I mean, I love that. And I love your honesty. It's important that people listening to this realize the truth, which is it really doesn't matter. What matters is them, your viewers, and how are they going to be a successful founder rather than going to the extreme end, which is it wonderful to be a founder? Is it wonderful to be success? How does it make you feel? Fuck it. It's not important. What matters is how do you make a success? What do you have to do? I love to hear. What does it feel like? So what do we have to do? What do I have to do to make a successful business today?

2:42Well, there are lots of things because, you know, when people talk about founders and rich people and they think, oh, they could go out and they could buy any yacht, any helicopter or a Ferrari, and it must be such a wonderful experience. It's nonsense. It's a founder. If you're going to sell a product or make a service, it's a compelling cause for huge commitment, love and determination into your product, into your service or whatever it is you're doing. And I promise you this, the dream of the Ferrari is pretty frigging low on your list of priorities. In other words, most people who build businesses, they really spend very, very, very little time worrying about the Ferrari or the yacht.

3:28That's not what propels them. It's not what motivates them. I mean, it's nice if you can afford to go and buy a Ferrari, I guess. I mean, I don't want a Ferrari, but some people do. But it's not. You know, very often the people who show off with money show off with expensive this and that and have huge gold watches and all this shit. They're often not that successful or wealthy people. So anyone who wants to be a founder, I think that's really interesting. I really respect people who want to work for themselves. I think you're great. So welcome. The idea of working for yourself is wonderful. And I hope maybe I can give you a couple of tips.

4:06But to be a founder is wonderful. Wonderful. So let's go back in time to the first company you founded. What problem were you solving? What was your vision at that moment? No, that's a good question, because I think most people who found a business, it is important that you are trying to solve some problem. Sometimes really amazing founders are solving problems that we didn't even know we had. But in my case, my problem, the problem I was solving was really obvious, which was the food in England in 1986 was pretty disgusting. America, the food in New York was much better. The food all over Europe was much better.

4:42so you could eat anywhere in italy or anywhere in france you know with in those days 10 bucks five bucks you could eat something really good in england it was really really bad really shocking so i thought stupidly because i was so naive i thought well it can't be that difficult um so i'm going to open a food shop um more or less that's kind of how it happened i was quite young. I think I was 24. And I'm going to open a food shop and I'm going to make it great and everyone will come and then I'll buy a Ferrari. So what you're saying to me then is that the feeling of getting the Ferrari was not satisfying.

5:23No, of course it's not. No. So what did you ever buy in your life that was satisfying? And the reason why I asked this question too is I was just listening to another founder of NetJets and he was talking about his watch and how his watch represented success because it was a milestone versus it being a watch. It could have been anything else. He just chose it to be a watch. But is there anything in your life that when you hit a certain milestone, maybe you go on a trip, maybe you buy something, I don't know, maybe you listen to a song. Is there something that has meaning? it's a really good question and it'll be a question which a lot of founders will be really interested in because they they are all we are all as founders captivated by the concept of we want to be free we want to be able to afford uh what we need and want in life we don't want stress and agony we don't want to spend all our days doing something we hate for and then being paid less than we think we're worth um we don't want to be controlled by a wank a stupid boss who's an idiot.

6:28So being free and possibly being rich and having the freedom to buy whatever you want whenever you want it is very compelling, obviously. But unfortunately, most of the work, 90 % of the work and responsibility of being a founder is your relationship with your customers. So you must not spend too much time dreaming about or thinking that the money, if you make success of what it is you do, will give you much joy. In my case, I'll try and answer your question. I remember for years always having to go economy. When I first could buy a business class seat, it was a huge breakthrough for me because it is more comfortable and the seat's wider and you feel less like you're on a train.

7:11So for me, being able to buy my first business class seat was amazing. There are a few other things. Being able to afford a lovely home with a beautiful view, that type of thing is lovely. Being able to afford a holiday home is lovely. you know so christmas or easter or the holidays are less stressful things like that they're wonderful so i'm i'm not ever going to say money is not important of course it's important and and but it's not your god it's not your main reason your main reason is i want to do a beautiful job with my service or my product i want to build a strong team and i want to astound them myself and my customers with something which is just great.

7:52And if it gets me another watch or another Ferrari, fuck it, maybe it does. Who cares? It's certainly not. Yeah. I could totally relate to the business class, by the way. I used to always fly economy, but my back would hurt. I'd be very tired. As I'm in my 40s now, I know you're only a little bit older than me. I think you're like 45. I still never go first class. I'll go business. this. I mean, I could afford to go first class anytime I want, but I never do because all of us as founders, don't waste money and never confuse status with success. In other words, don't go and spend three times on a first class ticket because it makes you think you're superior.

8:34That's ridiculous. Don't waste money. Don't be stupid. I love that. So I know that you, I would say you have a obsession with details listening to you understand i've heard you talk about lighting packaging ingredients all these things do you think that most founders need to have this maniacal focus on details and really like being in there with the product the service that they have to make sure there is as much perfection as possible yes yeah the answer is yes of course yeah they've got to really care about it. I don't know if the word is maniacal, but I've got to passionately and really be accountable and really care about it.

9:17Yeah, of course it is. It doesn't matter what it is, a service. It doesn't matter what it is, anything. You've got to astound your customers. If you don't just astound them, you're not going to build loyalty. They'll go somewhere else. I love that. And I get that. I've heard you talk so many times about this, and that's what I really took away was you just you're so passionate did you ever have a night where you woke up in the middle of the night and you said you know what this is a bad idea maybe i'll go get a job but this whatever this being a founder this business this is a bad idea no i've never had that ever i've only ever had one job in my life i've never ever ever ever ever however tough it gets ever for a single second thought of giving it up uh no how did you get through that what kept you going in the nights when every, like you said, being a founder is not easy.

10:06And I don't know if it's for everybody in terms of the grit and, and the mental fortitude you need, but what kept you going? So that to involve everyone watching, uh, that there's two things you said there, which, which are interesting. Number one, anyone could be a founder, anyone, every single one of your listeners could be a founder. Of course they can. It's just up to them. They, if they want to start a service or build a product or which which um they they handcraft her and believe um will add value to people's lives and they've then got the guts to go around and uh and mock it up and talk to people about it and test it and and and maybe they can um be a founder anyone can be a founder i know that now also when you do found a business when you start a business start selling something things never turn out quite the way you feel you think i promise you never never never never Every day, for me, every day is different.

11:02You have to change and accept the fact things don't work out the way you hope every single day. That's fine. Why I love doing it, because it never gets boring. The mistakes and the opportunities are always there. Even big things, when whole markets change, you move from, you know, renting videos to Netflix. Well, these things don't usually happen overnight. You know, you should be able to see them coming. So if you make a product which is fantastic for today but won't be around in 10 years, well, it gives you plenty of time to pivot and build that relationship with your customers. But most people, founders, they like to find something new, don't they?

11:40Actually, most of us never find anything. I've not done anything new. My God, I sold sandwiches. They've been around since the 18th century. It's the oldest, most boring business in the whole world, I found it. sandwiches my god what's new about that nothing what's new about what i do now with itzu and noodles nothing they've been eating and loving this food for a thousand years i've done anything what i do do is work with smart people and we work out ways of adding value to our customers we try and astound them we try and give them more than they expected we try and get them to we try and give them more than they hoped more more than they were expecting we try and enhance their life in a way and that's fun and it's engaging and it's creative and that's what founders do they make a better pencil or a better soup or a better bowl or a better cup or a better phone like that guy you know that we have an englishman called dyson i think he made 500 prototypes, didn't he, to make his Hoover work?

12:45That's mad. That's passionate. You have so much heart in business. I am so inspired by talking to you right now because of your heart and your passion. And I want to know more about Itzu. And I'm wondering, when you started it, did people think, like, you're kind of crazy, like you're saying, the Earl of Sandwich must be really happy because of how well you made the sandwich. and now you have noodles like thousands of year old thing that people have been eating for a while. So what was this like starting over with this new restaurant? So Itzu started Itzu Grocery and Itzu started because anyone who's ever been to Japan will know how much they love and respect their food.

13:26Their food's incredible, just breathtaking, the respect and love. And I was astounded by age 23 when I first went. I've never seen anything like it. So I came back to England and I opened a very affordable Japanese restaurant with a Japanese partner. But I wanted it to be very, very, very affordable. Because I wanted everyone to be able to afford to go there. So we created a Kaiten restaurant, which is like a conveyor belt. We only had 16 dishes and they were beautiful. And it soon became the busiest restaurant, I think, per square foot in London. It won lots of awards. It was an amazing experience.

14:06But after that, we opened five more of those. And then I got exhausted by being in the restaurant business. I wanted to bring affordable, healthy East Asian Japanese food to many more people. So we opened the first issue shop. And that was in a building in Hanover Square, a small shop. We made everything there downstairs. Beautiful relationship between the equipment, the menu and everything. There were only 14 of us who worked there. But I remember on the first week, we sold 10 times as much as the previous occupier of this place. 10 times the volume. The box, the bento boxes, everything we did was beautiful and very affordable.

14:48And after that, we opened another one and then another one. And then we opened 10 more, 20 more, 50. And wherever we opened, people flocked and came and enjoyed it. Now, with that comes a huge amount of challenges with people, training, management. The restaurant business is very, very, very tough. But, you know, on the whole, not every day, some days we do really poorly. But on the whole, I'm lucky enough to work with amazing people. And we're opening new Itzus, I think, in Holland now. And we opened one the other day, another one. They're beautiful, affordable East Asian food, broth, noodles, brown rice, dumplings.

15:28We're the biggest seller now of dumplings almost in Europe, certainly in England. We have six flavors of delicious gyoza without preservatives, without additives. Miso soup were number one. Seaweed were number one. I first went to Korea years ago and I ate their toasted seaweed. Never eaten anything like it. It's different to Japanese nori, the Koreans. They do it differently. And I fell in love with that. So now we're number one in seaweed, number one in miso. And it's a grocery that's filled with passionately brilliant young, just young developers, creative people. And we all get together every Wednesday, every Friday, every Monday.

16:08And we develop and we create. And then we create products with real guts. And then we take them to our supermarkets here in Europe. and they buy them. It's great. It's very creative. And it's important because on the whole, it's all affordable and it's all preservative and additive free. And it's convenient. In other words, a lot of what we do is really quick and easy to eat. But the biggest thing I've ever done in my life, my career, by far, with regard to food, is this latest thing we're doing with these noodles. So instant noodles are, these are instant noodles are remarkable. The noodles are completely additive free.

16:47There's not a single chemical in this. The secret has been to develop with the Japanese. The great miso master of Japan and I worked together for three or four years to develop the broths. We have six flavors of broth. It's not paste. It's real miso paste, not powder. And you mix it with the noodles with water and for like three dollars you have a fantastic, healthy, delicious meal. I mean, it's like a miracle in a way. I mean, people like finders, you know, they want to believe that product's a miracle because they really do need to believe in miracles. And it's taken me 64 years, but I think we've got a miracle.

17:30Julian, not only am I starving right now, I love Japanese food. Pretty much a lot. Most Asian food. I mean, I'm currently in Asia and I love Asian food, but I really, really love Japanese food. Some of the best steak I ever had was a Japanese restaurant. It was pouring out. We ran in because it was raining. The place was a mess. There was one employee. He did everything in the restaurant. And so he had to clean. He was insane. And the steak was like$6 and it was the best steak I've ever had. It's amazing, isn't it? And you know, many countries in East Asia, you're in the Philippines, right? So I ate some mango 10 years ago, the best dried mango I'd ever had in my life.

18:14And I found out it was made on an island in the Philippines called Cebu. So I flew to Manila. I then got a plane to Cebu. I went to the factory. And I've never eaten mango that good. Never. And I spent the two days there at the factory. And then we started selling mango. But food in East Asia is just incredible. I mean, the food of Laos, the food of Cambodia, the food of Vietnam, oh my God, you could live off. It's incredible. I know those mangoes. I tell everyone that the Philippines has, A, the best mangoes I've ever had, because I like to hang out near Cebu, same area. And then also, we go to this very small island and we get they call it young coconut so it's like coconut from the tree the guy climbs up the tree it's like a dollar he gets you the coconut they chop it open and it's the best coconut water coconut whatever it on a coconut juice it's amazing it's unbelievable there's nothing like like you're saying i love what you're doing one day you and i have to have lunch i'm gonna have i want to see the passion of you eating the food i feel like you would have enjoyed yesterday so we have a three about three hours every single wednesday we're about 16 of us brilliant people working together creative packaging product all about the color the texture the food the taste working with our partners in in japan or in korea or we have one or two really very talented partners in in china now in vietnam and and they're amazing I keep going all the time on that.

19:54But we only do East Asian food at ITSU. And we do it with, we really like to try and keep it very authentic. And a great, I think we're successful because a great many people prior to us just cut corners. They're not really dealing with the companies at all. It's fake, as it were. Well, I can't wait to get it. And I am curious if you could go back to the young Julian. When you were early on, maybe you were in a pret shop in London and you could give one piece of advice, but it's not about business. It's more about happiness. What would you say? Well, I think two things on that. apparently um any work founder any any potential founder watching your show i've been reliably informed at least here four times that when people get very old if they've been successful they all answer this question the same way which is not what's given you most happiness with your great success and everything you've done what actually has made you happy you know what the answer is?

20:58It's always, always watching the people I work with grow, watching them build their confidence, watching them take on responsibility and become great leaders. In other words, like so much about humanity, it's the ability to watch people grow and give. Our company has been completely built by what we call the four ITU IQs. And I don't know where we ever would be without them. But they try and reflect. It's purely accidental. They were put together just with common sense years and years ago. But they are, I want to grow, which reflects about you as a person. I want to take on responsibility. I want to be better.

21:40I want to be accountable. I want to learn. I want to be more professional. I want to walk tall. You know, I want to grow. You've got to want to grow. You've got to believe you can grow as a person. Number two is I build trust. It is impossible to build a business, to found a business, to be successful in business unless you understand the word trust. People have got to be able to trust you. Your team, the people who work for you, people who work for you. Trust is important. And the other one is I take pride. You've got to love your product or your service. You've got to take pride in it. You've got to believe in it.

22:16It's got to be good. You've got to be honest about it. And the last one is I care. In other words, I actually care what people think of my product. I care what they think of me. I care about my reputation. So I care, I take pride, I build trust, and I want to grow. Those four things will make any founder watching this successful. It's all you need, those four. The rest is, that's it, just those four. There you go. The masterclass is out. Final question, Julian. Thank you for sharing those four. I love that. is there anything in life, anything that you haven't done yet? I mean, it could be go to the moon, I don't fly to Mars.

22:54It could be whatever it is. Is there anything in life that you say, you know what, this is something I haven't done yet, but I would like to do. So I guess the honest answer to that question is everything you achieve and all your founders and the people watching this, everything you achieve in business with your product, your success, and everything, unfortunately, the truth is it kind of pales into insignificance compared to your personal relationships with people, i.e. your family and your friends, your partner maybe. That's the irritating truth. So if you're a founder and you work enormously hard, you're really dedicated, it invariably does come at a cost.

23:33But a clever person knows that early and doesn't destroy their personal relationships. Stays, manages to love, be loved and stay close to the people who are immensely valuable. And that's obviously your friends, your family. So that's a good bit of advice. Don't screw up your relationships as a founder too badly. You're bound to screw up some, but try not to screw them all up. I wish I'd done far better on that. I love what I do. i don't regret it but i spend far too much energy in involved in what i do rather than going for long walks i don't play golf i don't have the temperament i don't take sports do sports i don't look after my health and i wish i spent far more time with my children although i do work with two of them and i work with one of them quite a lot but you're and that's the only advice i can give you if you want a bit of brutal honesty.

24:34Your friends, family and relationships are probably ultimately far more important than anything you do in business. I appreciate that, Julian. We've heard this before. Some of the other incredible people that we've had on like yourself, many of them have told us it came at the expense of getting divorced multiple times, came at the expense of not being able to see their children very much growing up because they were engulfed in the business. So we've heard this before, and it seems to almost always be a byproduct of the business. Do you think it's possible to really scale at the same time also?

25:10Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course it's possible. Absolutely it's possible. It's completely possible. Yeah. As long as you stick to the truth and you only stick to the truth always. Your children, for instance, will understand. Your children, human beings, we want to be around people who are driven and passionate and successful. It's wonderful. It doesn't matter if you're a writer or a singer or a politician. It doesn't matter what. Your children understand. Your family understand. What they don't, what is unforgivable is when your energy, your determination becomes destructive. There's a fine line, you know.

25:47Julian Metcalfe, I mean, this has been amazing. I was so excited to have you on and just everything you've done before was always inspirational. I love hearing you talk just because I've never listened to anyone that is as passionate as you about the customer experience, the customer and what you're doing with Itzu. I mean, I can't wait to try it. I love noodles and I'm always afraid of unhealthy noodles. So I've been looking for an alternative and one day I'm going to come out to you. We're going to have... There it is. Thank you so much, by the way, for joining us. Thank you for giving all of this incredible now there it is no that's the noodles these are hand folded everyone is folded by hand plays three times now in north vietnam uh it's a product for two dollars i think it'll be three dollars it's the best three dollars you can ever spend i think anyway don't like me thank the japanese and the vietnamese and the genius and the hard work of the people who did it i just i I just oiled the wheels.

26:47I just didn't do much. They did that. Amazing, by the way. You are amazing. You're brutal, honest. That's why I like to talk to anyone that's from the UK. Anyone that's from the UK, British, they always give me – they're always honest. But thank you so much. By the way, I grew up watching Monty Python. Whose Line Is It Anyway? I grew up all watching British humor. People just did – oh, wait. I tell – there's some lines from Life is Brian. Was it Life is Brian? Yeah, it's a flesh wound. The flesh wound is great. There's another one I can't say because people might be offended, but there's so many great lines that I remember and I say them and nobody has a clue what I'm talking about.

27:26Like they don't remember it. And so I'm glad that you do. But thank you so much for joining us today. Wonderful. Okay, bye-bye.