#349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

22:34And so, you know, you pay $99 or $129, something like that to upgrade the operating system on your Mac. And he's like, hey, what if we gave it away for free and we just did an ad supported version of Mac OS? And instead of buying them, you can get it for free. But you have to watch an ad every time before you use your computer. What? That doesn't sound like Steve Jobs, right? And thankfully, both of those ideas, Steve changes mine. And again, just this constant iteration. Let's surround myself with these small groups of smart people. Let's make suggestions. Let's make changes. And over time, our products will improve.

23:12Okay, so I want to move on to the third thing I want to talk to you about, which is I mentioned earlier that the number one is like the supporting actor, the supporting cast in this book. And there's a line, the first time I read the book that I've never forgot about. And it says the further you get away from one, the more complexity that you invite in. And so I want to talk about their advertising first, but I think this applies to more than just ads. So your goal is a single idea expressed clearly. And for advertising, you really should try to pick just one message per ad. And so this is another example where they're going over this idea for ads for a new Apple product.

23:46And Steve's like, well, there's five things they do really well. We should mention all five things in the ad. and the founder of the advertising agency and a close friend of Steve Jobs for like three decades, this guy named Lee Clow, he did this demonstration of the difference between a good ad and a bad ad. So Lee crumpled up a piece of paper into a ball and threw it to Steve and asked him to catch it. And Steve was able to. And Lee says, that is a good ad. Then he crumpled up five pieces of paper into little balls and threw them all towards Steve at the same time and asked them to catch him.

24:17And Steve didn't catch any of them. And Lee said, that is a bad ad. And Lee's point was that the more things that you ask people to focus on, the less that they remember. So I remember reading James Dyson's autobiography for the first time. I've read it three times since then. The last time was episode 300, if you want to listen to it again. But he says something also. He's like, you simply cannot mix your messages when selling something new. A consumer can barely handle one great new idea, let alone two or even several. So he talks about in the book when Dyson's first product is that Cyclonic vacuum cleaner.

24:50He thought it was the world's best vacuum cleaner. A byproduct of the product he made though, an added benefit was the fact that the vacuum cleaner could also be used as a dry cleaner for your clothes. James never, never mentioned that in his ads. He let the customer discover that use later on because in the marketing of the vacuum cleaner, he learned what Lee Clow had learned as well. Your goal is a single message, a single idea expressed clearly. One message per ad. So then you have this principle. The further you get away from one, the more complexity you invite in for products. And it compares the operating system upgrades of Apple and Windows.

25:29So at this time, Apple offered the operating system Leopard as an upgrade. It had one version and one price. Microsoft was offering Windows Vista at this time. it had four versions, all with different features and all at different prices. And it's funny to see the difference today because this book is, you know, 15 years old. I just saw that there's four different versions of the Apple Pencil. There's no way that Steve would like that. There's another great story in the book where he's got a team that are at the time, they're trying to figure out, okay, you have this file on your computer from iMovie.

26:04You have this home movie you want to put into physical form. You want to make it into like a DVD. and so his team comes up with like this this complicated presentation he just ignores the presentation walks over to the whiteboard and he starts drawing out he says this is the application it's got one window you drag the video into the window and then it has one button again the further you get away from one the more complex you're involved in that one button says burn and then Steve says that's it that is what we're going to make and then he walked out of the room after Steve Jobs Died, Johnny Ive gave this great interview with Vanity Fair.

26:38And he said something I'll never forget. I've mentioned it multiple times. He said that Steve was the most remarkably focused person he ever knew. So Steve would even do this when he would, the advice he'd give or the direction, not even advice, he made it mandatory. The direction he gave his advertising agency. He's like, listen, for every single quarter, we're going to have a single focus. So whatever product or feature that we are focused on, we're going to be focused on that for the entire quarter. It's going to be mentioned in every ad, and it's going to be the main thing you see when you go to apple .com.

27:09Steve's most important concern was making things easier for customers. And so this entire thing, when you think about this third section, where it's like, focus on one, the further you get away from one, the more complexity you invite in. There's two things I think Steve understood, you know, instinctively, that when you attempt to communicate more than one thing, you were dividing your audience's attention. And the reason I think that that was an instinctual thing to him is because he applied that to both internally, so like his teammates, his employees, and externally to his ads and his marketing.

27:38This idea, when you attempt to communicate more than one thing, you are dividing your audience's attention. It's very important. Number two, people find more words confusing. I love to read. I love to read probably, as you know, probably more than, you know, 99 % of the people on the planet, whatever that number is. It drives me batshit crazy when I read an 800 -page book, and it's very common, you read an 800 -page book when that book should have been 400, 300 pages. Editing your thinking is an act of service and it takes time and effort. That's why people don't do it. There's this famous saying that I was thinking of when I got to this section, you know, because I'm jotting down, I'm trying to like interpret it, like distill these ideas.

28:18So I remember them in the shortest amount of time possible. And I was like, oh, this is like this, this thing that's attributed to many different people, but it says I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have the time. And so that's been attributed to people like Mark Twain, Cicero and Pascal. In fact, after I took that note to myself, the fact that, you know, people find more words confusing, you need to edit your thinking. And I really think editing is an act of service. But I was rereading Steve's shareholder letters from Pixar and his 1997 shareholder, this is hilarious how everything's connected.

28:50In his 1997 shareholder letter, he says, he quotes, he attributes to Pascal in the letter that I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time. And he's like, well, since I'm only working on Pixar, I have plenty of time. So I'm going to write you a long letter for the shareholder letter. But he certainly didn't do that when he went back to Apple. He didn't do it internally and he didn't do it externally. He understood that people find more words confusing and that you really need to edit your thinking down to its essence. And I think viewing that as an act of service to other people, because that is what it is.

29:20Our time here is limited. Do not take two hours to say something you could say in 15 minutes. Don't take a thousand words when you can show a picture. Editing is an act of service. So the fourth thing that I want to talk about and why simplicity is so important is because simple is fast. So he comes back. This is a hilarious story because they're working on hiring a new advertising agency at Apple. I should be clear, more clear here. So at the time, Gil Amelio is the CEO of Apple. He's the one that buys, makes the decision to buy next. He is the CEO of Apple right before Steve Jobs takes over.

29:51And when Steve comes back and Now he takes over Apple. Gil is fired. Gil had this like really complicated ongoing process to pick a new advertising agency. Keep in mind, they're losing money. If they do not turn things around, they will literally run out of money and go bankrupt. And Gil's idea is like, okay, we're going to, we need a new advertising agency and this is the way we're going to do it. We're going to interview more than 20 different advertising agencies and then compare them and then pick the best one. Steve comes back immediately and he cancels this entire process. Right before Charlie Munger died, he said something that's so important.

30:22And he said that trust is one of the greatest economic forces on earth. And what Steve did here is a perfect example of that. Steve canceled this entire process and he called somebody that he trusted. He called somebody that he had a relationship with. He calls his old friend Lee Clow. Lee Clow is the one that did the 1984 Macintosh ad. That was a decade before where we are in the story. Steve trusted Lee and that trust enabled him to move faster. That is so much simple than sitting down. I'm going to interview. How the hell do you even interview 20 different advertising agencies? How long is that going to take?

30:57And then you have to whittle them down. Okay, now we got our top 10. Now we got our top five. Now we're down to two or three. Simple is fast. So Steve calls Lee. They immediately start working. The second ad they do is the here's to the crazy one ad. And so in the book, Ken is talking about that. The fact that that ad was created. They came up with the ad. They made it and they aired it in less time than it would have taken Gil Amelio to complete all the initial meetings for the 20 different advertising agencies. Gil was being complex, and so therefore he was moving slow. Steve was being simple, so therefore he moved fast.

31:30There's a hilarious story. I did this episode on Herb Kelleher, which is the founder of Southwest. He's one of my favorite founders I've ever studied. I find him wildly entertaining. It's episode 322, if you haven't heard it yet. But Herb also had this religious dedication to simplicity. And so there's a fantastic story in the book that I think is related to what Steve was doing at Apple and why simplicity is so important because it's fast. So it says Herb Keller illustrates the speed with which Southwest moves by telling a story about Don Valentine, former VP of marketing. Why would he be former?

32:03I wonder why. Valentine had just joined from Dr. Pepper. So, you know, a big, slow bureaucratic organization. No disrespect to them, right? Valentine had just joined from Dr. Pepper when the marketing group met in January. You got to remember these dates. January. They're meeting in January to discuss a new television campaign. Valentine was ready with his timeline for producing spots. I'm going to try not to laugh already. We're meeting in January. So this is what he says. Okay, we're ready, guys. Let's do this. We're going to write the script in March. Pardon me? Two months from now? We're going to write the script in March.

32:34We're going to get script approval in April. Remember, we're in January for God's sake. So we're going to write the script in March. We're going to get script approval in April. We're going to cast this commercial in June. What the, what are you doing? And we're going to shoot it in September. When Valentine finished, Herb said, Don, I hate to tell you, but we're talking about next Wednesday. We're not running this ad nine months from now. We're not going to take nine months. We're going to make an ad and it's going to be done and shot by next Wednesday. Simple is fast. And I think what the advice that Herb would give you, and I think the advice that Steve would give you.

33:11If you feel you're not moving fast enough, narrow your scope, simplify, and then up the intensity. And there's another thing that Herb and Steve had. This is the fifth thing I want to tell you about. And this is another thing that they both had in common. And it is how they taught. How they taught. There's a casual conversation with the ultimate decision maker. And the reason I thought about this section too, it's like, why would, why do I want to name this like how Steve taught. There is a great line from Jim Senegal, who's the founder and former CEO of Costco. And he says, as a leader, if you're not spending 90 % of your time teaching, you're not doing your job.

33:51What did Michael Jordan say? He was teaching. He was the leader of the team. He was teaching his team. There are certain standards that you live by. This is the Chicago Bull way. This is the Apple way. This is the Southwest Airlines way. Jim Senegal saying, this is how we do things at Costco. If you're not spending 90 % of your time teaching, you're not doing your job. And the way Steve taught was through conversations. It says in the book, if you had this slick presentation, this is internally. I'm going to do an entire new, the next episode will be about how Steve Jobs sold. And I'll tell you more about that in a minute.

34:25But if you had a slick presentation internally, Steve suspected that you spent the limited valuable time that you had wrapping the idea, making it beautiful, instead of spending the time thinking through the idea itself and getting to its essence. He talks about that over and over again. Get to the essence of the idea. Boil everything down. Do not use, when he told Andy, Andy Miller, the guy that sold his company for $275 million to Steve that I mentioned earlier, something Andy says in that video that Steve would say, do not use 10 words when you can use one. Use a picture instead of a deck with 100 words.

34:59He would tell Andy over and over again, you have to think like an Apple guy. That is him. That is Steve teaching Andy. This is the standards of excellence we have. This is how we do things at Apple. Great companies have distinct cultures. They have a distinct way of doing things. I just spent the week with one of the most valuable private companies. It's run by, I'm not going to name the company or who the person is, but I would say is the 78 -year -old founder who's been running the company for 45 years. It's just like I described it as like, oh, I spent the week inside of one of these books.

35:28It is very obvious when you interact with all the, I was with their top executives, or 40 top executives and the founder, it is very obvious they have a distinct culture and they are literally the best in class in their industry. And one of the executives said, the founder has all, I think it was like 10 ,000 people, 11 ,000 people all marching in the same direction. You would say that about Steve Jobs. You would say that about Herb Kelleher. And what is remarkable is how informal Steve was. This is how he's teaching his entire company. It's a casual conversation with the ultimate decision maker.

35:58And if you can center these casual conversations around a demo or a picture even better. But Steve would just talk about why the product needs to exist, how the product worked, and why it is different and better than other products. And he loved to use visuals if he could instead of words because he thought a picture was simpler than words. Again, he's trying to make things as simple as possible. So he would, there's many examples in the book and I'll talk about this more and how he gave presentations too. He would just like jump up, he'd have the conversation and he would draw out the idea. If there wasn't a demo of like the software or the product there or an image of it, he would draw on the whiteboard as a way to illustrate his point.

36:32And there's a fascinating line in the book that said that Steve acted as his own slideshow. He did not want to see a slideshow with a bunch of bullet points. He would tell you, converse with people rather than present to them. There is one exception to that rule, and that's when Steve did the new product presentation for Apple's new products. That was not a casual conversation. That was a presentation. That presentation was painstakingly choreographed. He was relentless about rehearsing it. He had backup plans for everything. The thing that was the same about the internal conversations and the external presentations was that he loved using images, demos, simple language, and then ideas stripped down to its essence.

37:11I'm not going to spend too much time here because the next episode, I read an entire book on how Steve Jobs prepared for presentations that I think is going to be very valuable to you and I because business is sales. We're selling customers. We're selling employees in the company mission. We're selling recruits on why you want to join the company. And I think the book I'm going to talk about in the next episode is really a blueprint from a super salesman, a master salesman that Steve Jobs was. And the last thing I want to talk to you about is a way to find a simple path forward. And I actually call this the Hurst principle.

37:40I came up with that name myself. It's from this biography of William Randolph Hurst that I read many years ago. And there's an idea in it that I think can be applied to whatever industry that you're working in. So I want to get to one of the most important things that I ever read. And it took me rereading it multiple times for it to actually sink in and have a fundamental understanding of what it actually meant. There's a line in Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs that says, one of Jobs' talents was spotting markets that were filled with second -rate products. And when you analyze Steve Jobs' career through that lens, that one of his greatest talents was spotting markets that were filled with second -rate products, you see it over and over again.

38:15He did this with computers. He did this with MP3 players. He did this with phones. He did this with tablets. And one of the hallmarks of a second rate product is the fact that it's too complex. I'm going to read from the book because I think this is so important. This is describing because remember, this is the focus on really the turnaround of Apple. The iPod really was the product that helped Apple turn the corner. And so when Steve analyzed that, he says that he believed that the music player category needed most was simplicity and whichever company delivered it would soon be running this planet.

38:48That is a quote from Steve Jobs. Whichever company delivered it would soon be running this planet. It turned out that one key insight allowed Apple to leap ahead of the other company. Steve explained in a 2006 interview. Now, this is Steve's words. We had the hardware expertise, the industrial design expertise, and the software expertise, including iTunes. One of the biggest insights we had was that we decided not to try to manage your music library on the iPod, but to manage it in iTunes. Other companies tried to do everything on the device itself and made it so complicated that it was useless.

39:26In other words, we analyzed everything that our competitors were doing. And in focusing on what they were not doing, we found a simple path forward. So why do I call that the Hearst principle? William Randolph Hearst built a media empire that would be worth like $30 billion in today's dollars. And it started out with a single newspaper in San Francisco that his father gave to him. And so at the time, there was a bunch of other newspapers, competitors, serving the same city, right? They're all in San Francisco. Their newspapers are very similar. There's very little differentiation. And their distribution, the way they are selling, there's no differentiation.

40:01They would sell, they'd hire these things, these little kids called newsies. They're like little boys. They're like 9, 10, 12 years old. And they'd roam around the streets selling the newspaper for a penny or two pennies. And so William Randolph Hearst is looking at this, right? And he's like, well, I want to build a media empire. I have one newspaper I want to expand. I have little product differentiation. I have no distribution differentiation. What should I do? And he realizes like, well, the people in San Francisco are not unique. They're like people everywhere. They read the newspaper because they want to know what's going on in the world, what's going on in the country, what's going on in sports and business and everything else that newspapers read about.

40:37And yet me and all my competitors are just focused about the residents in San Francisco. Is there something that my competitors are not doing? Are there markets that my competitors are ignoring that I can attack? And so what he did was he put his newspapers on trains and started sending them to all the communities that might be 100 miles from San Francisco, 200 miles from San Francisco. He's like, well, they don't live in San Francisco, but they're the same kind of people and they're probably interested in the same things. So instead of fighting what might have been a losing battle, just kind of like cutting prices and doing the exact same thing as his competitors, he put his newspapers on trains and drastically expanded the market.

41:10This immediately works. He starts making much more money than his competitors, and then he uses that extra money to start buying up his competitors, and he expands to other cities. That is the beginning of what turns into this giant multi tens of billions of dollars empire. All of that from a relatively simple idea. So the Hearst principle is very simple. You write down on a piece of paper everything that your competitors are doing, whether in the product design or their distribution. Then you draw a giant X across it. You tell yourself you cannot do it the way they're doing it. and you force yourself to think about new ways and new solutions.

41:42It's the exact same thing. He probably didn't write it on a piece of paper, certainly didn't call it the Hearst principle. But if you think about what Steve Jobs is telling us, he's analyzed what his wallet's competitors were doing. He attacked a market full of second -rate products. He says, if I can't do that, I'm forced to find a new way. And he found a new and better way. And that changed the trajectory of Apple forever. And I think this quote from Steve Jobs is a perfect place to close. Simple can be harder than complex. You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.

42:17And that is where I'll leave it. Highly recommend buying the book, reading the book, keeping it close to you. It's a great resource. If you buy the book using the link that's in the show notes on your podcast player or available at founderspodcast .com, you'll be supporting the podcast at the same time. That is 349 books down, 1 ,000 to go. And I'll talk to you again soon. I have just two quick things to tell you about before you go. Number one, I am hosting another Founders Conference. This one will be on July 29th through the 31st. It is in a private venue deep in the California Redwoods. This place is gorgeous.

42:47It is actually in Scotts Valley, California. And the idea to do these two -day conferences was actually pulled out of me by people that listen to Founders. So one of the most common requests that I've received over the years is this desire for, David, can you introduce me to other people that listen to founders? And I didn't do anything with that information because I didn't know how to do it. And I actually think I stumbled upon a great way to do it, and I'll tell you about that in a minute. But I was thinking about, I just listened to this entire episode back, the same one that you just listened to.

43:19And if you really think about one of the main ideas, it's like, hey, your goal really should be that you have a single idea that's expressed clearly. So I heard that multiple times. I reread that part. I rewound that part. And I thought about, okay, what is the single idea expressed clearly? Like why do these founders conferences, these founder events, why do they need to exist? And they need to exist. And the reason, the North Star that these events exist is to help you build relationships with other founders, investors, executives, and high value people. and it wasn't until after I had this idea and it wasn't until after I did the first Founders Conference which was held back in March in Austin that I realized, oh, I accidentally stumbled.

43:59I had this idea and that was a test of that hypothesis but I realized like, oh, I actually stumbled on a great way to help other people build relationships with high value people and you do it really quickly and there's a couple ways that these events are structured that I think serve this goal, right? what is that single idea expressed clearly? I want to help high value people build relationships with each other. And so what I did at the event back in March, and I'm also doing at this event on July 29th to the 31st is I ran out the entire venue. That means that if you attend, every single person you see there is for the same reason, is there for the same reason and has the same interest as you.

44:40Number two, if you just heard what Steve Jobs, one of Steve Jobs' main principles, like Like just make it his, one of his biggest concerns was making it as easy as possible for other people. And what I decided to do is like, I want to make these all inclusive, which means that if you get your, all you have to do is get yourself there. Right. And I take care of the rest, your lodging, your food, access to every single part of the event is all taken care of. And then the third most important point that I think helped facilitate a lot of these relationships so quickly at the last event is these are intentionally smaller events.

45:13this event in scotts valley california on july 29th to the 31st that i highly encourage you to attend is only going to be around 120 to 130 people and it is the the end result why i think i stumbled onto something is because the amount of friendships investments deals customer leads partnerships and other opportunities that can't that have happened that came out as a result a direct result of the last event is staggering. I frankly was shocked by it. And that leads me to believe that I'm on to something because again, the single idea expressed clearly, the reason this event exists is to build relationships.

45:52So even the way that the event is scheduled, there is a lot of unstructured time to talk to other attendees, I will be there the entire time, there will be a lot of smaller breakout sessions around specific topics. So if you attend and you want to lead a breakout session around a topic that you happen to be an expert in, just reply back to your confirmation email after you apply, and then my events team will handle everything else. I am doing this event in partnership with Rick Burnham and Paul Busser. They're the founders of Seder Grove, which is a $500 million holding company, and one of the breakout sessions will be about how they started and structured their company.

46:28I met Rick and Paul and built a relationship with them through the podcast. They were listeners of the podcast, and my friend Patrick knew them and introduced them to me. And they also taught, in addition to running this, they run a podcast called The Art of Investing. They run their holding company, but they also teach at Notre Dame. And they actually invited me to speak at their Art of Investing class. And that relationship led to this partnership, which is a great illustration of, again, the single idea expressed clearly. Why does this exist? This exists to help you build relationships with other high value people.

47:00And that opens up opportunities in the future that you can never possibly predict. So to come to the event and to build relationships to other high value people, the first thing you need to do is go to founderspodcast .com forward slash events and apply. The second quick thing I have to tell you about is another example of something being pulled out of me. And one of the benefits of that you just heard. So let me explain. So for years, people knew because I'd go around talking about the fact that since 2018, I have been cataloging all the research that I do for this podcast. And I was putting all of my notes and highlights in this app called ReadWise.

47:33I'd go around talking about how great it is, how I couldn't make the podcast without it. You just heard me use what is now called Founders Notes. So foundersnotes .com to sign up for this. But what this is, is my own internal tool that I use to catalog the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs so I can pull it up on demand. And you just heard that because when I'm quoting Sam Walton, when I'm quoting Michael Moritz, when I'm quoting Walt Disney, Herb Kelleher, James Dyson, all these other ideas from past Steve Jobs podcasts. I was doing that by searching this giant database that contains all my notes, all my highlights, all my transcripts, and now this AI assistant that'll do all this reading and research for you called Sage that I also built into Founders Notes.

48:17And the reason I say this was pulled out of me, this idea to build this product in partnership with Readwise, and again, this is the power of relationships because I found out about Readwise because one of the founders, Tristan, sent me an email in 2018. And he's like, hey, you obviously read a lot. You might think this app is valuable. I didn't know it existed until then. And then it wasn't until five years later that I then sent, I had talked to Tristan and I had sent Tristan emails like, hey, there's actually an opportunity for us to partner here because I keep getting these emails, these DMs, these requests that, hey, how can I have access to this giant second brain you have, I would argue it's the most valuable database in the world when it comes to learning from history's greatest entrepreneurs.

49:00And so the initial idea I came to Tristan, I was like, hey, I would like people to be able to see what I see. And then since then, we've added so many more features and just made it so much better that this is now a tool that I use nearly every single day. And if we go back to that idea, the same idea that was important to Steve Jobs, hey, we need a single idea expressed clearly. One of my favorite lines that I've ever heard This is why there's such a high amount of people that you and I study that were obsessed with learning from history, that had read hundreds of biographies throughout their career because they understood what Charlie Munger so eloquently said, that learning from history is a form of leverage.

49:38Learning from history is a form of leverage. Founders Notes gives you the superpower to do this on demand. The podcast is a great tool to learn from history, but it is pushed to you. Founders Notes gives you the ability to control it. It gives you the ability to tap into that collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs and use it when you need it. And so there's two main ways that you can search Founders Notes. One is a keyword search. If you listen to the last episode I just did on Michael Jordan, the last 20 minutes of that podcast is me going through because I was asked the question, how did history's greatest entrepreneurs think about hiring?

50:14All I did was type in hiring into the keyword search in Founders Notes and then went through. So, you know, there's probably like, I don't know, 10 or 15 different examples. The second thing, if you don't have a keyword search, I just ran into a friend of mine who has access to Sage. Sage is the AI assistant that operates on top of Founders Notes. And that idea also came, was pulled, I guess not pulled out of me. It was given to me by somebody that was beta testing Sage for me. And this person, after using it said, hey, you know, you had all these other names for it. I think I was going to call it like Founders GPT or the names were terrible.

50:46the name and i take solace that steve jobs also came up with bad names the mac man for god's sake so anyways he's like this is after using this this is not the right names you should call it sage and he sent these two definitions and he said because sage is a profoundly wise person it refers to someone with a deep understanding of life accumulated knowledge and sound judgment that is every single person you and i study on the podcast they they've had a deep understanding of life accumulated knowledge because they've they spent 50 years on their career and then somebody put all the highlights or the main lessons into a book and sound judgment.

51:19And the second one definition was that a sage is a wise, discerning or prudent person. It describes someone who shows good judgment and makes well -considered decisions. So a friend of mine was like, hey, I was on my way to a board meeting. I needed some information about leadership. I was asking sage for how history's greatest entrepreneurs thought about leadership. And it gave me a bunch of good quotes that I used in the board meeting. That is what I meant. Founders Notes gives you the superpower to now access the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand when you need it.

51:52Another subscriber just sent me this note that Founders Notes is giving him a compounding tactical advantage over his competition. If you are going to spend hours and hours invested in listening to different Founders episodes, I would encourage you heavily to invest into a subscription for Founders Notes. It makes the lessons that you're learning on the podcast even more powerful. And again, it gives you the superpower to tap into the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand. And you can do so easily by going to foundersnotes .com. That is founders with an S, just like the podcast, foundersnotes .com.

52:25Thank you very much for the support. Thank you very much for listening. And I'll talk to you again soon.