Aus Open Day 15 - Carlos Alcaraz: History Boy

21:03Catherine Whitaker:He'd set it up. He'd got the shot he wanted and he just couldn't quite execute.

21:07Matt Roberts:And there had been a poor second serve return earlier in that game as well. those were the two points that he had to win, I think, to take it into five and then you've got Alkraus' five-set record, but those were the pivot points in the fourth set.

21:29David Law:Yeah, there was a moment when Djokovic had applied the pressure and got that break point that he failed to take and then levelled up at five games on. and I looked down at Nadal, who is in the front row of the seats at the end of the court. And suddenly he's really sitting forward, like leaning forward, ahead of everybody else in his row. And I thought to myself, I actually looked up the head-to-head between Nadal and Djokovic at that point and sort of wondered what was going through his mind. because what went through my mind was Djokovic taking victory from Nadal at Roland Garros in that third set, that incredible third set that they had about five years ago.

22:17David Law:And I thought, you know, he must be looking at Djokovic and Alkraus here and thinking, I know what it's like trying to beat this guy when he's playing like this. but the beauty from an Alcrast standpoint is that he didn't buckle this time. He's buckled against Djokovic playing like this several times and at the Olympic final here last year but he just trusted his legs. He kept on soaking it up. He kind of put away the toolkit of explosive shots really for the match. We didn't see the huge forehands, did we? No, he sort of said, I'll outlast you. And for him to put away kind of the bravado and the daring and become Mr.

23:05David Law:Percentage, it was almost like role reversal between these two. You know, Djokovic was having to be the high wire act to try to kind of compress his skill set into bursts in order to win the match, whereas Alcaraz was playing the long game. I found it so tantalising and fascinating.

23:22Catherine Whitaker:he did keep up the drop shot Alcarras didn't he like that was his

23:27Matt Roberts:he's a real play for him he had the touch on it throughout which is I mean obviously an incredible weapon but also a tell that he's not too stressed I think because touch can be the thing that goes when you're stressed and he had it all the way through

23:42Catherine Whitaker:and he was using it early in rallies often quite soon after he'd served it was often the next shot that he would hit and I just think it did a good job of keeping Djokovic off balance. It was kind of like, if we're going to play short points that he wants to play, they're going to be short points on my terms with the drop shot. Otherwise, I'm going to use my legs, we're going to extend it. And yeah, it was really smart.

24:05David Law:And another great way of just taking a bit out of Djokovic's legs as well. And the first point of the game that he broke to win it, 24-shot rally. You know, it was a masterclass from Carlos Alcraz in sort of match management. And I just feel like that's taken us to another level with him.

24:28Matt Roberts:Yeah, and discipline.

24:29David Law:Yeah.

24:30Matt Roberts:Discipline, maturity, match management. These are words we used to talk about Cameron Norrie.

24:40Matt Roberts:John Jones last year knew things. I like how he hits the racket and I like the way he focuses. He was ahead of his time as little John Jones.

24:52David Law:You know, there's a line that I remember from when they first played one another at a Grand Slam at Roland Garros when they were one set all and Our Crafts was roaring back and I was really excited because I was so convinced that this guy was ready. and I always remember Andy Roddick tweeting at the time his line that I'd heard him use before about Djokovic. First he takes your legs and then he takes your soul. And I was watching this and thinking, jeez, Alcaraz is doing it to him. You know, because that's the player. You know, another thing he said tonight is that every time I take to the court, I learn from this guy.

25:36David Law:He's soaking it up. it's extraordinary to witness. And it's going to make him even more of a nightmare for everybody else that's left behind when Djokovic stops. There wasn't the kind of outpouring of raw emotion

25:55Matt Roberts:in the aftermath and in the ceremony that I maybe was not expecting, but I thought there was a world in which Alcaraz was kind of a mess, because he's told us how much he wanted this. But he was just happy. He was just so happy, which is wonderful to see. And Djokovic was incredibly magnanimous, came around the net, didn't he? And they embraced. And I was so sure that Rafael Nadal would be the one presenting the trophy because, of course, it was Nadal's record that Alcaraz broke. He sat there on the front row. I'm thinking, he can't have flown to Australia just to receive a keyer with his face on it.

26:37Matt Roberts:I would. But it turns out, I mean, he obviously had a nice time, I think, watching the final, but he really did come here just to get that keyer.

26:46David Law:And their massive paycheck.

26:48Matt Roberts:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, it was Mark Edmondson giving out the trophy, and I'm sure that was decided upon long ago. It was his anniversary year, the last Australian man to win the title here, 76. Lovely. but it was a bit weird that Nadal was sat there on the front row, metres away, sort of staring them down and they both, I mean that was both the sort of main feature of both of their speeches, wasn't it?

27:18Catherine Whitaker:And as you said, the way they were, you know, the way it was kind of organised, they were literally looking at Rafael Nadal when they were giving the speech and there was just this incredible scene therefore that you had, like Nadal in the stands having retired, Djokovic still going, but kind of bridging the gap between Alcaraz and Nadal, and then Alcaraz standing behind Djokovic for the first speech. It was a real scene, a real moment, actually. And I don't know, it just is very special to me every time the big three are together or two of them are there together. Like, they've just shared so much history.

27:55Catherine Whitaker:And I thought Djokovic's whole speech during that ceremony was so, so perfect. Yeah, he did so well. He really recognised that it was Alcaraz's moment. So he didn't, you know, he didn't want to steal the spotlight there. But he also made sure to, you know, really recognise how special it was to have Nadal there. He was funny. You know, he talked about how he had a winner's speech and a loser's speech. and he had to pivot and go to his losers one. It was just a great speech from Djokovic, I thought.

28:30Matt Roberts:And now Alcaraz is going to get a little kangaroo tattoo somewhere on one of his legs. That's what he's told us. Yeah, David, I need to ask you about your theories. OK. Now, by my count, you had three Alcaraz theories on the go this tournament. If you have enough, one of them is going to come, right? Now, I'd say you've got to have a buzz cut theory.

28:58David Law:Yeah.

28:59Matt Roberts:Bad tournament for that one.

29:00David Law:Oh, I'm not sure about that. I think he wasn't as good as he was at the US Open, was he? No.

29:09Matt Roberts:No. But, you know, there's an argument that it's more impressive to, I mean, maybe this is a conversation we should, a debate we should have now, like more impressive to like winning in flow state for seven matches is one thing but

29:26David Law:winning this way listen it's fantastic and it's a wonderful achievement from him and i do i do love that he's you can't just win all the grand slams just by killing everybody but maybe you can if you have a buzz cut but no i i feel like he has had to prove different parts to his ability and his mentality. And he's done something new again here in that regard. But, yeah, obviously a bit of a joke, the buzz cut. But I also still think it would be a great statement. It would freak me out if I was an opponent. But every time he arrived at a Grand Slam, oh, no, it's that guy.

30:07Matt Roberts:But the problem is, whatever guy it is, like there are so many different versions of Alcaraz that can win these major titles.

30:16David Law:He's getting better. He's getting better with every passing year. Regardless of the haircut. They want to watch out.

30:23Matt Roberts:He hasn't won one blonde. No. That's next.

30:27David Law:I wouldn't put it past him. He could win with anything.

30:29Matt Roberts:Okay, so that's the hair theory. You're claiming a not defeat there, which I'll let you have, but whilst making a face. We can say that you debatably won. Yeah, you debatably won that one. great quote from Osaka. Thank you. Theory number two, Alcraz is going to lose in the semi-finals because he's not going to be the same without Juan Carlos Ferreiro. Definite defeat for that theory. It's pretty close, wasn't it? Yeah. But I am going to put a cross in that column. And he had cramp, you know, with the amount of cramping. Juan Carlos Ferreiro. David, I wouldn't argue this one too hard because it'll end up hurting you for theory number three, which I plan to give you a victory on.

31:12Matt Roberts:Okay.

31:12David Law:Now I take the L on Ferreira.

31:16Matt Roberts:But here comes the big win. Carlos Alcaraz freed up as a grown-up and allowed to become his full adult self without the parental figure of Juan Carlos Ferreira.

31:36David Law:Do you know, I actually, when I made that theory public in our WhatsApp group, it was at 3Love against Alex Dimenor. And I hadn't got this in mind. What I'd got in mind was I think it might release him from worrying about anything or getting permission to play ridiculousness by somebody. and I thought, oh my word, he's going to play at such a level that nobody can cope. And I still think he's going to win more Grand Slams where he plays like that, where he doesn't go through much stress at all because he's just that good, right? But he actually showed something that I thought we would see down the track.

32:27David Law:When Matt Futterman was on with us reacting to the Ferrero separation, I think we both thought and I think we all thought that in the long run you know Carl Sajkrais is capable of maturing into a player that doesn't need quite the the support that Juan Carlos Ferreira has given him and listen they might have stayed together and that might have just adapted as you go along like parents do with kids you know and you you maybe don't have so much say and they don't you accept that but the fact that they separated I did think long term we would we would see that maturing process and he might end up being better for it but it's happened instantly that is a huge surprise to me I got that wrong and I find that so compelling for the rest of his career now if he can stay fit because i mean he he's a grown-up out there and in training and talking about concentration with such pride and hard work

33:35Catherine Whitaker:you know it's all there for him now yeah it feels like it's kind of the last bit of his graduation you know and he's and he's done it now um being able to win without one carlos ferrero um and he he talked a lot didn't he he mentioned it in the speech even and then he talked about it in the press conference about kind of the doubters and the fact that there was a lot of noise around he didn't look at me it's all right i mean all of us really i remember on the day that we did our emergency podcast, we all basically concluded advantage Sinner going into the Australian Open. It felt like, you know, it felt like that was yeah, like long term, maybe this could be a good thing for Alcraz, but short term, I really thought it would favor Sinner.

34:28Catherine Whitaker:I just trusted Sinner to be able to produce his best, where I thought Alcraz might still be having some concerns. And I think we were right to at least point out the fact that it was a big thing. You know, like he's talked about that there. Like there was a lot of attention on him. There was a lot of noise suddenly about a decision that he's made. He's not really had that before in his career. And that could have destabilised him. But credit to him. Credit, I think, to Samuel Lopez as well. Like I think he's an underrated, important person in the Alcarez team. He was there when Ferreira was there.

35:03Catherine Whitaker:He's still there now. He's a good coach. I think Alcarez kind of communicates well with him on court. We've seen a lighter Carlos Alcarez in a lot of big moments this tournament on court. So, yeah, hats off, because I really did think that the Ferreira thing could destabilise his start to the season. And the opposite has happened. And it's so impressive.

35:29Matt Roberts:Yeah, and without explicitly naming Juan Carlos Ferraro or the situation, how it unfolded, he's referenced that quite a lot in his post-win interviews in the press conference, in some TV interviews he's done. He called it an unusual situation for me in the offseason, something the likes of which he's never had to deal with before. He's never really had anybody doubting him like this before. And while David, the answer to your question, which was, did you use those doubters as motivation? He said, no, no, no. Like as the tournament was going on, it was just match by match. You know, did work really hard in the offseason.

36:12Matt Roberts:Wasn't thinking about that. But then he ended that answer by saying, but now I've got it. I'm very happy to prove all the people wrong. and that's another facet to Carlos Alcraz we haven't seen before like a defiant up yours to the haters Carlos Alcraz it was like when Coco Gauff said that in her US Open speech wasn't it it was like oh okay you've been hearing all the haters have you and using that as fuel like yeah like we think of Novak Djokovic which is that kind of character. And obviously Andy Murray was so fueled by doubters, wasn't he? And that is, you know, that's a variety of champion.

36:57Matt Roberts:I didn't think that Carlos Alcaraz would be that guy, but here he is being that guy too.

37:03David Law:Yeah, I was actually thinking, I don't think I've worded this question that well because it's not that great an answer. And I thought he was just trying to bat it away. And then he dropped that in at the end. And I thought, well, great, because at least we know how you feel, that you are proud of it. And, I mean, generally it was quite interesting that Ferrer really didn't get a mention aside from that. Do you think he watched? I would have thought so, but I don't know. Obviously I don't know for sure.

37:38Matt Roberts:Must have been very tough for him.

37:40David Law:Yeah, I would imagine so. I imagine it's a bittersweet feeling. I would imagine mostly he's proud of the work that has gone into helping, because there's no question he's been a massive influence in a positive way. He's a huge role in his development as a player and as a young man. But it must be a bit of a knot in the stomach feeling as well, that you're not part of it anymore. and whether you decide whether it was your decision or not. Because I think he probably always expected to still be part of this journey. And I suppose, and I can't speak for him for sure, but I certainly think it would be a natural emotion if you felt a little bit sad in a way that, oh, crikey, they can do it without me.

38:38David Law:On the other hand, maybe he's proud that he's helped him prepare so he doesn't need him anymore. I don't know. But these would be natural emotions.

38:46Matt Roberts:Well, he's going to get more sleep tonight than he would if he was still on Team Alcaraz, I think. Do you think they're going to go to the club in Melbourne? I'd have thought so.

38:59David Law:I think there's a fairly good chance of that, actually. Maybe the barge. Definitely a really nice dinner and then on to somewhere,

39:08Matt Roberts:I would have thought. Maybe the barge. Or a barge. There are multiple barges. The barge? We've outlasted the barge. Yeah, we have. Most of this tournament. We've walked past the barge home and it's been shut down. I think you could probably get them to stay open, rent out the barge. At least we're cold for the barge. It is. It needs to be an indoor venue.

39:27David Law:It seems to be sponsored by Novak Chokovic's clothing company at the moment.

39:32Matt Roberts:Yeah. What barge have Nike got? Okay, folks, that's the match and the achievement and the immediate aftermath. Of course, we have to talk about what it all means and what now. And we will do that in part two. But first, one last time, folks, from the Australian Open, a word from our wonderful sponsors, Steve Urgel's International Tennis Tours, the premium hospitality and experience provider. It's your last chance to come with me on this because Steve Fogles is also an official ticket and travel package provider for Roland Garros 2026. I'll take it. Where, how motivated is Yannick Sinner going to be to go for his career slam at Roland Garros?

40:23David Law:Oh, massively. I'm fascinated to see his bounce back after this.

40:27Matt Roberts:Yeah, big time. Me too. And you can be there with Steve Fogles and you can do it the official way. And that means you're guaranteed peace of mind and a faff-free experience at what is truly one of the most beautiful sporting events in the world. And Tennis Podcast listeners can save 10 % on their Roland Garros ticket packages. And you can also add premium hospitality options as well. All of it secured the official way. Go to toursfortennis.com forward slash podcast. That's tours4tennis.com forward slash podcast and save 10 % with the code PARIS10. We'll see you at the next Grand Slam. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, our 15th and final daily tennis podcast from the Australian Open.

41:17Matt Roberts:It's actually our sort of 19th, isn't it? But 15th and final day of the tournament. And David, today makes it two out of 12.

41:27David Law:Yeah, for the 12 in a row. that I predicted. We're back at two. At Wimbledon 2023 in the aftermath. What has he managed? Five of the next 10. I think we're up to, which is not bad. But not 12 in a row.

41:45Matt Roberts:But 12 in a row might happen still. Okay, here's the question. Can four in a row happen? Well, no, sorry, hang on. The actual question is, can five in a row happen? I'm asking the calendar slam question. Yeah.

41:59David Law:It can happen. It can. I still think it's a huge ask because of the competition. Yannick Sinner. Novak Djokovic has proved here that he has a level that can hurt Carlos Alcaraz. It would have been interesting if they'd have played the other way around, I think. And he'd have played him in the semifinals when he hadn't got four hours in his legs, Djokovic. That would have been very interesting. We know that he's beaten him before. and Sinner is going to bounce back and come again and push. Zverev was very close to beating Alcraz this time. I think he's finally figured out how to play big tennis in big moments.

42:44David Law:And then there's a question mark over health and form, I suppose. There's a lot of question marks. But would I make Carlos Alcraz the favourite for the next three Grand Slams, one at a time? Probably. So if that's the case, then he can win them all.

43:05Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. And he was asked in English about goals. He said, I hate lose. I hate lose. That's my motivation.

43:15Matt Roberts:I hate lose. And I've always thought of him more of an I love win sort of guy. But it was, again, that different side of him was nice to see.

43:26Catherine Whitaker:But then in Spanish, he was asked about goals as well. and he talks more directly about the calendar slam. And, you know, I think the thing with Alcaraz is coming off the back of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer, like for him to find unique things or things that they haven't done is going to be difficult because they've done almost everything. But obviously this achievement tonight, becoming the youngest to win the career slam is something that he's got now. and also you know the calendar slam is something that none of the big three did so that's that's something that would like separate him and mark him out and he talked about how yes it's absolutely a goal for him but it's also one of those goals that you could only actually achieve if you take it one step at a time like you you just cannot get ahead of yourself with that sort of thing You can't have the mindset of, well, I'm going to win all four.

44:26Catherine Whitaker:You can't be thinking like that because that's what will trip you up. But he's so good, I think, at recognising what he needs to do to achieve it, but also putting it out there as a goal. And I genuinely believe it is a goal for him. And I take David's point there about how difficult it is going to be. It absolutely is. I do look at Alcaraz compared to the big three in their prime and think that actually the path for Alcaraz, to me, seems a little clearer for him than it ever did during the big three, big four era. Because, you know, Nadal was such a roadblock at Roland Garros. Like, he won that pretty much every year.

45:13Catherine Whitaker:Like, even for Novak Djokovic starting the season with the Australian Open all the time, you never really thought about the calendar slam because Nadal was probably going to win Roland Garros the very next slam Federer had the same issue and for Nadal he wasn't he wasn't as strong on all the surfaces like Alcaraz is so quickly in his career you know David and I were talking the other day we have no idea what Carlos Alcaraz's best surface is I mean genuinely I think you could make a case for any of the surfaces

45:43David Law:a year ago we would have said grass

45:44Matt Roberts:We would have done. Or maybe... We definitely wouldn't have said hardcore. It's a tough scene for Yannick Sinner that he's won two hardcore Grand Slams in a row now, isn't it?

45:54David Law:We ended up arriving, Catherine. I'm curious to see what you think about this because you were out at the time when Matt and I were talking about it. We ended up with grass at number three. And a year ago it was number one. Only because he lost the Wimbledon final. Yes. One match. It was ridiculous. But he's won the big matches on all the other surfaces over the last year or so. Like it's maybe there isn't maybe doesn't have a best surface because he's equally good on all of them.

46:20Catherine Whitaker:Maybe that is the answer. Maybe we're trying to force it.

46:23Matt Roberts:Has there ever been a player where and maybe it will be very clear by the end of his career. Hopefully we're a long way away from that yet. But has there ever been a player where you wouldn't be able to say what their best surface is?

46:35David Law:Not between all three surfaces like this. I might have said in Federer's heyday, well, is it hard court where he's won how many US Opens in a row? Or is it Wimbledon where he's won how many Wimbledons in a row? Is it for Djokovic, grass and hard court? I think you could make a very strong case. Agassi won them all. But I think Klay was clearly the least favorite. And it was the same for Sampras and McEnroe. they didn't win the French Open you know, Sampras and Mekin I always kind of felt like Serena like, yeah you would definitely have said

47:17Catherine Whitaker:Klay was number three but also you'd have said well at her best, she's the best on Klay you know what I mean? because she was just the greatest and it yeah, it's staggering how adaptable Alcaraz is to all the surfaces and yeah like he's reaching finals regularly and he's got a good record now against Sinner. So these are the things that are going to be really stopping him from doing it. You know, will someone trip him up early? Well, he's got the consistency now. And what's his record like against his biggest rival? And he's kind of got that. Obviously, he's not totally because Sinner did beat him in that Wimbledon final.

48:02Catherine Whitaker:but it feels it feels on sitting here right now I'm not predicting it but it's by no means ludicrous the sinner

48:13Matt Roberts:are you actually

48:15David Law:yeah I certainly won 12 in a row

48:17Matt Roberts:you also row back on that at every possible opportunity

48:21David Law:I mean I do say I was drinking at the time and it's true I was

48:25Matt Roberts:you're predicting the calendar slam

48:27David Law:yeah the other thing that I think keeps it kind of keeps it simple to him is that he's got what Federer used to have, which is an absolute love of what he's doing for a living. He thinks this is great.

48:46Matt Roberts:It was so heartening and nourishing and reassuring hearing him talk about how he was going to make sure he took the time to enjoy and appreciate this. He said the bad part of tennis is we have tournaments week after week after week. And we don't... Tennis wants to not give us the chance to stop and appreciate what we're achieving. And he said... I mean, I think it's a tough scene that you kind of have to break tennis's rules to do this. Like, it's actively discouraged to get off the treadmill and stop and appreciate it. But he knows he needs to do that. And I'm so relieved to hear him talking.

49:29Matt Roberts:this just go and enjoy it Carlos don't go to Dallas I mean I know he's never gonna go to Dallas but you know whatever his equivalent of Dallas is like make your own schedule you know screw the

49:42David Law:rules you've got the financial power and the ranking power and the the fame and importance

49:47Catherine Whitaker:to do whatever is best for you do that yeah I remember seeing last year Jim Currier like mapping out what would be a sensible schedule for Carlos Alcaraz in in 2026 and his key point was like trying to find three week breaks you know like that's that's a actual rest and reset and you get to have some time away and do some training look after Wimbledon like once he had a bit of

50:14David Law:time off exactly he went he went and practiced he wanted to make sure he got his own back and And look what he ended up as.

50:23Catherine Whitaker:Just on the calendar slam thing as well, obviously I've mentioned there about the big three. Obviously the thing I haven't talked about there is how close Djokovic did get to doing it once he kind of had a bit more of men's tennis to himself and obviously that incredible 2021 season. I think what feels different for Alcaraz compared to that is that, yes, obviously Djokovic has kept up a remarkable level since then and is still competing for Grand Slam titles. But at the time, it felt like, well, this is his last chance to actually win the calendar slam, right? Like he was late into his career.

51:00Catherine Whitaker:And that added pressure, I think, as well. Almost a little bit the same for Serena as well. Like when she went for it in 2015, there was this huge weight attached to it because it felt like this is it. This is the one time. And obviously Djokovic as well had the Olympics that year that he was going for and he'd never won before. It was just a lot. Whereas Alcaraz is, as we know, young. And so early into his career, I think there could be a bit more freedom to him trying to get that achievement if he gets close compared to where Serena and Djokovic were. Do you know what I mean?

51:37David Law:Yeah, he's got time. And by the way, he's just won the same number of Grand Slam singles titles as John McEnroe and Mats Valanda at the age of 22. Yeah, like we've lost sight of how many seven is. Exactly. Absolutely. I was thinking that today. Somebody mentioned 22 to him in one of his TV studios and he battered that away. He said, it's so far. And he's right. Seven is so many slams. Yeah. He's already so high up the Wikipedia table.

52:11I saw so many people looking up that Wikipedia table in the press seats as that match was nearing its conclusion. Novak Djokovic, folks. Turns out number three was up for grabs.

52:27Matt Roberts:Novak Djokovic has taken it.

52:33Matt Roberts:Look, it's been a while since we've seen him do a Grand Slam ceremony speech and he said in the speech, he said, I didn't expect to be doing another one of these and clarified in his press conference afterwards that he always believed he could reach Grand Slam finals again, but he'd stopped expecting it a couple of years ago and that was the shift. But in that speech, he gave it a lot of great lines. Same in the press conference. It was a really great press conference. And it's like in these moments now with Novak Djokovic, it's like Taylor Swift albums, isn't it? You are looking for the Easter eggs.

53:10Matt Roberts:What are you not saying? What lines should be reading between here? He didn't say, I'll see you next year. He said, God knows what happens tomorrow or in six months. He said, it's been a great ride. I love you guys.

53:27David Law:Yeah, I think this is exactly what he should say, because I don't think he knows what the future holds. I genuinely don't, because I think he's loving this. he's proved to himself again just how good he is he's beaten the hannock sinner for god's sake in a fifth set he's pushed alcaraz it's it's astonishing to i mean to me and just just to round up generally him and alcaraz i feel like they have both burnished their own legacies today and djokovic comes that winner really here because he is even greater than he was a couple of days ago in terms of I think how I will remember him and how other people remember him um but in terms but but in other ways he's obviously declining because he's getting old I mean obviously he's 38 he's going to be 39 in just a few months time so I still feel like he should do a lap of honor Stan Werenka style at one point and get because I think he'd enjoy that and I think that's a really high possibility but he's also playing so well and he will surely only be feeling more fuelled in his belief that he can do this that one day the chips might fall and he might win another one because he got so bloody close but I don't think he knows when and if because I still think it's more likely that he declines more but we'll have to wait and find out.

55:04Matt Roberts:I feel in such a weird place, kind of big picture with Novak Djokovic because he's proven me very wrong this tournament and showed me a level that I doubted that he still had and I believe he can produce that again but I still think having to go through two of them is a barrier that is, I mean, on the basis of the evidence we've had is an insurmountable barrier for him and isn't going

55:36David Law:to get any less and this was with all the help in the world this was with all the help in the world

55:41Matt Roberts:and okay one one of them could fall over or something or you know get in whatever but basically the challenge is going to be getting through both of them and i i still don't i don't think that challenge is achievable for anybody in men's tennis right now and um we were we were appearance on the ABC show Offside is that I did this morning that Matt you watched and there was a quote that came up which apparently originates from Burt Reynolds

56:14David Law:Oh yeah, Burt You know him do you? Burt Reynolds? From Cannonball Run? And from Smokey and the Bandit? I have not seen these films

56:24Matt Roberts:but I am aware of These are references I'm not getting I'm afraid Do you know Toby Keith? because apparently Toby Keith wrote about this line in a song. No, I don't. No, okay. Well, anyway, the quote is... I don't know him either. No, anyway, we're all learning and growing today. The quote is, I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. And I think that's where Novak Djokovic might be right now.

56:53David Law:Yeah.

56:54Matt Roberts:But once is unlikely to be enough.

56:59Catherine Whitaker:yeah it's got to be twice it's got to be twice

57:02Matt Roberts:and that is a lot more than once yeah like as you said like

57:08Catherine Whitaker:this is a win for Novak Djokovic this tournament I completely agree with what David said there adding to his legacy people will be talking about that Yannick Sinner match when they reflect on Novak Djokovic's career and the fact he's reached another final he's taken a step up and he's done that That, you know, obviously everyone gets older, but he's done that, like getting older. Like I didn't think he could take steps up now at this point in his career, and he has done. And yet I agree with you, Catherine, the overall picture still is that everything lined up here in terms of the fourth round withdrawal and the quarterfinal only having to play two sets.

57:54Catherine Whitaker:And these are his favourite conditions to play in on that court in that night session and he came bloody close but he still had physical issues in the final against Carlos Alcaraz and it's just very hard now to see that not happening again and again and again as he pushes to try and win this this number 25 so like my overall sense is that I'm much wearier myself of like not writing him off because of what he's shown this week but I still think it is really hard for him and he is gonna need help like I kind of feel like Djokovic would benefit from a third guy coming along yeah and taking like like a third guy that form he

58:42Matt Roberts:needs to form an alliance with somebody like like you take him out I'll take him out and then we'll play in the final.

58:49David Law:Or he needs to find somebody who one of those two really struggles with. Exactly.

58:54Catherine Whitaker:That's what I mean. Not a third guy because obviously that makes it harder overall. But not a guy

58:58David Law:that Djokovic struggles.

58:59Catherine Whitaker:Exactly.

58:59Matt Roberts:He doesn't struggle with many of them. He needs Bursic van der Zanskjold to come good.

59:04David Law:Maybe it's a Grigor in flow state again. I'm not sure. But one thing that I did feel like I learnt a little bit today is that he is enjoying the process. even we keep wondering and we did at the outset in the pre-tournament press conference when he looked a bit he looked a bit down he looked a bit tired and so forth but I think overall I mean I think sometimes people have a bad day don't they I think generally he's loving the process of trying to figure out if it's possible can I figure a way to do what people genuinely think is impossible to go through these two at the age of 38, 39.

59:47Matt Roberts:And look, he's out there on the court tonight with Rafael Nadal there watching him in the front row. And I'm not getting the violins out of Rafael Nadal. He seems to have a lovely life. He's been paid to come to Australia just to receive a bespoke Kia. Lovely. He's got a beautiful family. Seems very happy with life. But I do think, you know, Djokovic has been confronted there with what's on the other side. and I don't think he's looking at that going I can't wait to get there. I can't wait to be receiving Kears and sitting on the front row watching Carlos Alcaraz play.

1:00:24David Law:I think it comes back again to the stuff Andy Murray talked to us about. I think he'll be alright with it when it's over.

1:00:33Matt Roberts:That's waiting for him. The Kears are waiting for him whenever he's ready but he's not in a flipping rush, is he?

1:00:39David Law:He wants to make sure that he's rung every dropout. Yeah, absolutely. Does Wimbledon still remain his biggest chance or does the fact that both Alcaraz and Sinner have now won there sort of change how you feel about Wimbledon

1:00:58Matt Roberts:being the one if there is to be a one for Djokovic?

1:01:01David Law:It's interesting because I don't feel like he looked that comfortable there this last year. It was a heavy defeat he had in the end. But look, he still won it all these times. He's still a favourite against the vast majority of players, as things stand right now. So he could put himself in a position. So I'm still not going to write the bloke off completely. No chance.

1:01:31Matt Roberts:I'm not sure anybody will after today, after this week, but predicting it?

1:01:36David Law:No, I'm not predicting it. I'm predicting calendar slam for Carlos Alcaraz. And thus concludes our Carlos Alcaraz and Novak Djokovic discussion.

1:01:48Matt Roberts:What a ride it has been these past two weeks with them. I mean, they have ensured that we won't remember the 12 days of duds. we will remember this tournament as having been exhilarating and life-affirming. And it really wasn't the case for 12 days.

1:02:09David Law:No, we probably will have a few chuckles about the first 12 days at some point. But you're right, I do kind of forget that now. Yeah, we'll focus on this stuff in our Australian Open Review show. I mean, Matt might focus on Elsa Giacomo. but yeah they've given us stuff to talk about for the review show folks that's it for part two we still have a bit more business to take care of in part three welcome back to part three of today's final daily tennis podcast from the 2026 australian open we have our junior champions for this year we have ksenia eframova the third seeded 16 year old french girl she beat katerina Tupitzina 6375 she will become the junior number one in the girls come Monday I know she's been somebody

1:03:03Matt Roberts:that's been tipped for success for a long time there's an interview doing the rounds of her from I think 2021 when she was 11 saying that you know she wanted to achieve great things and be world number one so here she is potentially on the way and France are very excited about her. And the junior boys title was won by the Slovenian Ziga Sesko. The seventh seed, he beat Keaton Hans of the US, 4-6-6-3, 6-4. So those are your two names to circle and look out for in the future. Folks, we have one last sensation of the day to award and we have two contenders, two strong ones to end on. I was so sure for so much of today that the recipient of the final Sensation of the Day award would be John Blom, chair umpire of the men's singles final, who in the second set, I think, after a very vocal third set, after a very vocal call-out from an obnoxious man in the crowd, said, ladies and gentlemen, if you call out during the points, you will be sent out and that will ruin your night.

1:04:25Thank you. Umpire sass on the rise. It is on the rise, definitely. The more the better.

1:04:32Matt Roberts:And then later in the match, he said, I know you get excited, but please don't call out during play. I mean, honestly, even without the sass, he was the front runner for Sensation of the Day because, you know, big. It was always, regardless of the result, it was always going to be a win for John Blom. He's been up front through most of the tournament, hasn't he?

1:04:53David Law:He's been having plum gigs. Yeah, it's all that Red Bull.

1:04:58Matt Roberts:So, yeah, John Blom was the clubhouse leader. I had basically given the award. I'd written him in the agenda. But then we meet Elena. we get doorstepped by Elena in the aftermath of Carlos Alcaraz's victory as we're leaving the Rod Laver Arena and lovely Elena has three beers she has a non-alcoholic one for David she has one each for me and Matt and she says I've come to make a last gasp bid for sensation of the day and I don't know if I can deny Elena me neither it's incredible so thoughtful the alcohol free element of it

1:05:37David Law:is the winning moment for me. And it's not like John got us around him. Exactly, and he had all tournaments.

1:05:43Matt Roberts:Yeah, we have seen him at lunch basically every day. We always do.

1:05:47David Law:He hasn't got a clue who we are, so... So I think my only question is, does Elena get it out right, or do we award two for the last day? No, we're denying John. I think John's got work to do still.

1:06:00Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, he's got honourable mention, but for me... It's Elena. Elena. Yeah. Okay. I'm happy with that. And also, like, she knew that John Blom was the leading candidate. She called that. She said, I suspect you're going to give it to John Blom. Yeah. But here are some beers. I just love that mindset. There was no entitlement at all for Elena. He just assumed he'd go.

1:06:29Again, all that Red Bull. Have we got a sensation of the tournament? Oh. Oh, God. That's for the review show. Okay. Very good. That's a good tease.

1:06:41David Law:You can't drop that on us. I know, but that's the beauty of the review show. We do that in, what, four days' time? I think we should do that, though, Crown and Sensation of the Tournament. Yeah, I absolutely agree. I feel like I mentioned Jason Kubler a lot. We'll see. That's just off the top of my head. A couple of other bits of business before we wrap up. Firstly, can we have a word for how professional Matt is being, given that he's got Fulham on his screen right now. And we're losing.

1:07:08Matt Roberts:Yeah. It's not over yet. Fucking hate man, you. Oh, they've just scored again. They've literally just scored again. Kunja's doing his stupid celebration. Well, that's going on.

1:07:22David Law:Please VAR it out. There was absolute VAR nonsense on the first goal as well.

1:07:29Matt Roberts:Okay. Well, he was professional up until 30 seconds ago. we conceded against Man City live on the pod and I went, oh, they've scored. And it's happened again. Yeah, sorry, Matt. It's happened again. For fuck's sake. Look, comebacks do happen.

1:07:45David Law:No, not this time. You're going to have to put an explicit on this now as well. A couple of other bits of business. First of all, a correction from yesterday. I said, and I do this a lot, actually, I get my Wimbledon's a bit jumbled around the pandemic. I said that Rabakna had won her Wimbledon title in 2021 and I led David astray with that of course she won her Wimbledon title in 2022 last bit of business from this tournament before of course our Grand Slam our Australian Open Review show coming to you later in the week for Friends of the Tennis Podcast a story that dropped today very widely because Craig Tiley the tournament director of the Australian Open and the CEO of Tennis Australia, has been speaking to a lot of media today.

1:08:34He's spoken to Matt Futterman from The Athletic. In fact, Matt Futterman was writing up this story when we were at lunch earlier on today, like the true professional that he is. And as always, Craig Tiley is thinking very big picture, even in what might be the last days of his in this job, in these two jobs that he has. He is rumoured to be leaving Tennis Australia and taking the big job in the US at the USTA. That has not been confirmed, but it also has very much not been denied either. But if he is going to go, he wants to go out with a bang and he wants to go out letting people know what his vision is for this tournament that he has shepherded over the last 20 years.

1:09:22And there's a number of very big visions. He says, as a sport, we need to evolve. And I think the biggest headline here is that he wants to see women at the Australian Open play best of five sets from the quarterfinals onwards. And he's talking about doing it from 2027. And look, if we've learned anything, it's that Grand Slams can do whatever the fuck they want.

1:09:50David Law:Yep, if they make up their mind. Yeah, if they want to, they can do it. Now, we said that there would have to be a lot of consultation with players to push this through, and that makes me think maybe this won't happen because, look, I want women and men to play the same format of the sport regardless of what the players think about it. Like the players are going to push for whatever suits them best and gives them the best chance of winning. I don't personally think that is what's particularly significant in terms of weighting, whether this is the right thing for the sport. I'm sure there would be some initial turbulence and there would be some things that would feel unjust or, you know, it would impact players differently to others and that would be something that would be a big talking point.

1:10:46And I'm not saying I wouldn't have sympathy with that. I'm just saying this is about so much more than that. So I fear that this vision could end up falling on that stumbling block. But I like that he's sort of pointing out, do you know what, if you want to do this, we can just do this stuff.

1:11:10David Law:you know and also he's the first person in a position of power who's aired that idea um at grand slam tournaments i haven't heard anybody else say that i mean i i share your view it needs the formats need to to be the same across the board that's the thing and i don't think it making everybody play best of five sets all the way through the tournament is remotely possible or sensible. I think it needs to go the other way. I think they all need to play best of three sets until the quarterfinals, or at least until the fourth round, personally. But still, I've long felt that women should get the same stage as the men in the latter stages, absolutely.

1:12:00And it is in the latter stages that that disparity has the biggest impact impact and you'd so notice just how much more oxygen the men's tournament takes up I mean it literally takes up so much more court time to in our final podcast we don't have a women's match to look ahead to so the men you know the men's final gets our whole show on the on the final day all of these things add up to just a picture of total inequity really is as hard as as hard as you might try and swim against that tide to to correct it it's very very difficult um he's also talking about expanding the precinct as they call it here they love a precinct in australia um expanding into other nearby areas to ease the burden of the...

1:12:58It's a subtle recognition, I think, that maybe they have gone a bit too far with overcrowding. But I don't think there's... It's also an admission that they're probably not going to row back on the revenue they're receiving from it. So the answer is to expand rather than to say, actually, we're going to let fewer people in next year and earn a bit less money. He wants to get rid of lets. He wants to get rid of everybody on the court. He wants courts to be completely clean and not have any human beings or furniture on them. What do we think of that vision?

1:13:31Catherine Whitaker:I don't love that. I like the character that comes with having some other human beings. You want John Blom there. You want Greg there. I do, yeah. He wants to put the umpire in a bunker or something and have them come out to deal with situations. I don't know. I don't love that. But, you know, it feels like he's saying a lot of things at the moment. I'm not actually sure any of these will necessarily come off. It is giving, tossing a grenade on the way out, isn't it?

1:14:08David Law:And also, what I do like about Craig is he's prepared to say stuff. and then everybody has to talk about it. Yep, absolutely. And questions will be asked to the other Grand Slams. Are you up for this? And I think that's good. Oh, God, we're going to have to go to another Ironly Maratly press conference. It's one of those things where, like, I really applaud

1:14:28Catherine Whitaker:and appreciate someone who, like Craig, is having ideas and wants to make the sport better and all of that kind of stuff and is prepared to take some risks and all of that. At the same time, I do look at it and think it's yet another frustration that wouldn't this be so much better if tennis as a whole was talking about these things rather than just one person putting it out. I think I would like to see it trialed maybe, which feels like the wrong word to use at a Grand Slam. But I would like to see what it's like if the women play best of five from quarterfinals onwards. But I think it would be weird then if it was just at the Australian Open and then we went back to it.

1:15:13Catherine Whitaker:Like, that makes no sense to me. Like, why is the sport doing that? I think it would always be better if everyone was more on the same page. And so I applaud Craig for putting it out there and being prepared to say these things. But the actual, like, process of it coming in doesn't feel like it would be particularly satisfactory to me if it was just a slam. giving it a go. Maybe that's what you need to get the others on board. Maybe there needs to be someone who goes first. But I don't know. I just would always prefer more collective action. Hashtag Tennis United. What a note to end on. Except it's not the end because I have some very important thank yous.

1:16:01First of all, to our Australian Open mascot, Gus. Now, I'm glad I read these words from Renee, Gus's owner, earlier on when I was going through the agenda. And I'm not reading them for the first time now because I did actually tear up reading this. But Renee says today is Gus's final day as a tennis podcast mascot. And her human parents want to say thank you to David, Catherine, Matt, Hannah and Vicky. These three weeks at the Australian Open, her favourite Grand Slam have been incredibly special. Gus, unfortunately, has terminal cancer, and this is likely her last year with us, which is why getting to share her with all of you in this way has meant so much.

1:16:42Being able to take daily walks with her mum, listening to her shout-outs on the podcast, has been one of the happiest parts of this time. Thank you for being the soundtrack to Gus's life. That is so lovely. And it has been an absolute joy to have daily photos and updates on Gus. You and Gus have done us proud, Renee. And I hope whatever time you have left with her is incredibly warm and special and that there's lots of cuddles involved. So thank you from all of us. And thank you also to Vicky, Hannah, Gorona and Jib, our incredible team behind the scenes, without whom, and I really do mean this, we could not this show would not be on the road don't quite know where it would be but very much off road and we've had Vicky and Jib both completing their career slam for us

1:17:45Catherine Whitaker:as well, so fitting that Alcaraz did it to make it a big three this time last year we didn't have Vicky or Jib 12 months ago and I don't know how we were functioning, maybe we weren't anyway life is better now with them involved and Gorona and Hannah too like it's just it's an incredible team we have David's diamonds we call them there's also David's duffers but we don't talk about them I mean we do talk about them just not publicly

1:18:14David Law:you two are part of the diamonds as well yeah David has a remarkable skill at finding diamonds

1:18:20Catherine Whitaker:and it's particularly amazing here because so much happens when we're asleep yeah oh god you wake up and things are just done Things are done. It's amazing. It's brilliant. Yeah. And folks, if you like what we do, the best way to support us is by being a friend of the Tennis Podcast. Friends get a minimum of 25 bonus podcasts per year, including monthly live Q &A shows, eight editions of Tennis Relived, our deep dive history series, Tennis Podcast Meets, where we interview players players that we want to get to know, players that we're interested in, players that we think you might be interested in.

1:19:02And you also get four Grand Slam review shows with voice notes per year. And the first of those is coming up in just a few days' time. And the voice notes have already started coming in. Incredibly. Yeah, we've already had Pam's. Thanks, Pam, you legend. Thanks, Pam. Yeah, she just couldn't wait. It was amazing. You also get a listening experience with significantly fewer adverts in all of our episodes, both Friends specials and our weekly and daily Grand Slam shows. You also get access to The Barge, which is our community chat platform and a tonic for tennis fans looking for a place to talk about the sport without the toxicity of Twitter or other online spaces.

1:19:46Hannah is our captain of The Barge and it's a joyful place. It really is. it's something very special to us. So maybe it could be special to you too. You also get access to Hannah's column and her incredible writing and an archive of more than 100 Friends shows from the past four years. That is all for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. The link is in our show notes. As always, if you'd like to get on board the Friends train and we'll pop it in our newsletter as well. So do subscribe to the newsletter. One more stat to come in the newsletter, Matt. Have you got one more in you? Sure. I haven't done it yet.

1:20:26But, you know, the night is young. It's only 2.30. Full of a 2-0 down. I'm in a great mood. Well, how do you feel about some shout-outs? Yes, let's do them. I've definitely got them. Go for it. We have Teresa. Hello, Teresa. From Tulsa. Hi, Teresa. Tulsa, Oklahoma. Indeed. Teresa says, I've been listening to you for years and enjoy it so much. Thank you for all you do. Oh, thank you, Teresa. Like, there is a... Teresa Valantova! Catherine Whittaker, you are a diamond. That I interviewed for Tennis Podcast Meets what feels like a million years ago, but it was actually two and a half weeks ago.

1:21:15David Law:Yeah, I'd completely blame her on that. And she's destined for big things. I think so yeah Theresa thank you very much we also have Sam Wood hello Sam hi Sam Sam we know Sam Sam is is is from from where I'm from grew up down the road from Catherine there we go in Wokingham yeah Sam's a barger that's my neck of the woods woods big barger yeah is she a Reading fan not sure I think she'd probably mention it if she was wouldn't she probably but

1:21:52Catherine Whitaker:what I do know is that Sam hangs out with barges at Wimbledon and they've already got their barge a day at Wimbledon planned and organised and Sam's going to be part of it

1:22:04David Law:lovely love it Sam like Sam Stoser yeah and Sam Schroeder yeah good work there we go I'm doing this all by myself here folks I know well I'm just backing you up just you know go on Catherine Thank you, Sam. And finally, we have Trevor Anderson, who is from Brick, New Jersey. Yay! And his favourite player is a Mandarinisimova. Has to be. Oh, good work, Trevor. And is that because of New Jersey? Or would his favourite be a Mandarinisimova even without the New Jersey connection? Do we know that? We don't know that. But I'm going to say that even without the New Jersey connection, Amanda would be Trev's fave.

1:22:57I've called him Trev. Trevor like David's dad. And Anderson like Kevin Anderson. Have they ever been mentioned in the same breath before, David? No.

1:23:07David Law:Kev will be delighted. There we go. Trevor, Sam and Teresa, thank you ever so much for being friends of the tennis podcast. The leaf blowers have started. It's our sign. It's like them starting to play the music in the Oscars speeches, isn't it? It's time for you to go. Not before saying hello to our wonderful mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. We love you. If you want to find out where our final standings are in the Australian Open predictions, then subscribe to that newsletter. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. we are part of the athletic podcast network thank you to Charlie, Matt and James for their incredible work their contributions to this podcast and just being tremendous company at a Grand Slam they really enhance our experience so that's been great that's it that's the Australian Open 2026 until the review show if you're a friend of the pod we'll be back in a week We sure will.

1:24:16I just, it just popped up that people are playing tennis in Abu Dhabi. There you go. Leila Fernandez was on court when we started this pod. How's that possible? What is going on? What a ridiculous sport. We love it though. The Davis Cup. Yeah, the big Jack Draper comeback. Go on, Jack. I'm pumped all of a sudden. It's, look, it's been a joy. I can't believe we get to do this for a living. and I can't believe you all listened to it. It's an absolute pleasure to do this. Despite 12 days of duds, it has been a joy. And we're very grateful to you for listening because if you weren't, we'd just be shouting into the void, which is what David and I were doing for the first sort of two and a half years of this show.

1:25:03So thank you for listening. One last time from the Australian Open 2026 and the Media Centre's Creator Lounge. It's over and out. you