BJK Cup - Italy survive, but can they defend their crown?

0:10Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast, our second tennis podcast of the week, a four podcast week coming your way. We just cannot get enough podcasting. We're here to talk Billie Jean King Cup, which has concluded its quarterfinal stage and is moving on to the semifinal stage. And we'll be back to talk about those semifinals Saturday. Matt is here and he is sunburnt. Hello, sunburnt Matt. Hello. Yes, I'm sunburnt in a very small portion of my face after playing golf on Tuesday with the British tennis journalists and forgetting that I have new hair. I very diligently put applied sun cream to my face but forgot my new hairline.

1:01I don't usually have to put the sun cream up that high and I wasn't wearing a hat and now I've been confronted with various Zoom calls this week with our lights up for our podcast studios where it's become very obvious that I was an idiot and I have some comical sunburn on the top of my head. It's very tennis player coded to only have sunburn in like a very specific portion of your face that your sort of head accoutrement don't cover. It's very Stephanositt to pass off you. Whether or not you think that's a good thing is up to you. David, how are you doing? He's a Saudi king. Yeah. No one's ever been more thrilled to be a Saudi king than Stefan Osset to pass.

1:48Or Garuna, maybe. But anyway, I am neither a Saudi king nor a partially sunburned person, mainly because I haven't been in the sun. So, yes, but I did enjoy hearing about Matt's exploits on the golf course, which sounded like they went pretty well in my absence. So I've got some catching up to do. Yes, Matt, tell us about the golf. I think it was potentially the best golf I've ever played. I did need David's help in the bunkers. David has famously never failed to get out of a bunker in one go. And I turned the potential par into a quadruple bogey. And that rather ruined my scorecard, which was otherwise excellent.

2:38What a team you would have been. I know, I know. it was those windy conditions which I think catch you out with with uh sunburn as well I'm trying to I'm trying to justify myself like it was it was sunny but it wasn't hot because it was really windy and I needed three layers on and I just didn't think that I was getting sunburned but apparently I was but I played well so maybe it's worth it I can believe that I was on the driving range with Matt on Sunday and it was a really unfortunate meeting of one person playing the worst golf that is well both that they have ever played and that potentially anybody in the history of golf has ever played and the other person just just could miss Matt was just cracking away trying to not glory too much and how well he was playing while I was just air shotting all over the place.

3:36Then the rain started coming and Billie Jean started whining. It was, yeah, it was a whole scene. Anyway, very well played, Matt. Thank you for representing us so well at the British Tennis Journalists Association annual golf day. David will be back next year. It's a goal of mine to feel like I'm able to not embarrass myself at such events at some point in the future. So we'll see how we go. Turning our attention to Shenzhen and the Billie Jean King Cup finals. Our semi-final lineup is set with all four quarterfinals having been played. So it will be two semi-finals. The first of them tomorrow, Friday, Italy against Ukraine.

4:22And the second of them, Great Britain against the USA. those two ties, Great Britain's win and the USA's win having been played today Great Britain having wrapped up victory just over an hour ago we'll talk about that in due course let's start at the beginning, shall we? with the Italy-China tie that kicked off the whole week in Shenzhen what have been our initial impressions aside from this tie and the drama of it that we will we will soon get into but what have our general impressions been of these finals in its new venue and its new incarnation in in Shenzhen with this with this 18 format David well I think if you were turning on on day one your impressions would be pretty much wholly positive because I think the staging of it looks very impressive on tv anyway they've they've they've got a good arena there it's it just feels like it's been in that arena for years you know you can often see some pretty kind of worrying moments at the start of a new staging of a new venue where where things look as though that they need some ironing out and this wasn't that but the main thing was that there was a great atmosphere and too often certainly the season ending event that they had in Shenzhen and sometimes the other events that we've seen in Wuhan and Beijing sometimes lack atmosphere crowds and there was a great crowd on day one now obviously that was featuring the host nation and that is a difference maker I mean I think overall that there were good decent there were decent numbers watching Kazakhstan against the US today and that was a good atmosphere and and it hasn't been sort of terrible in in in all of them but but it's been quiet in some of the others through the tv at least um on on some of the others but on day one when you got the host nation playing it was fantastic and look china gave them a lot to shout about as well i mean that was that was a cracking tie and really they should have at least extended it into the doubles and they probably should have won the whole thing because they were ahead in in both matches and i mean huge credit to italy for for finding a way to win those two singles from behind but i'd be pretty gutted if i was the chinese players to have got that close i wouldn't have expected them to get that close in the absence of jung qinwen and yet they did and they still didn't win.

7:05Must hurt. Yeah, we're looking at a tie here that was won 2-0 by the defending champions and the team that were heavy favourites to win this quarterfinal. And yet that is so far from telling the story of the tie. Both matches were served for by the Chinese players that ended up losing the matches. Yuan Yui served for her match, the first match of the tie against Elisabetta Cotciareto twice. She was a set and five, two up, was you and you, she was four love up in the decider, ended up losing the last five games in the match. Was this a comeback, a choke or both, Matt? Can I hand that question over to David?

7:54Because I was on the golf course. And look, you can. I was here just to talk about your sunburn and your golf. Is that, your contribution's done now, is it? And the other three ties, which I've watched, but you've very specifically come to me on the one that I didn't watch. I thought you might have done some catch-up. I overestimated you. David? Look, I've watched the highlights, but I don't feel well enough informed to make an accurate assessment on the level of choking. Well, I mean, I really did watch every... Come back or choke. I watched every balleress. and I mean look it it wasn't just duty either this was really pulsating stuff I was riveted by by the action and look I'll be a bit smug about it I've banged on about knockout tennis and this is perfect example of it you could feel the nerves you could feel the deadline you could feel the the desperation and and how tight Cucciarati was early on I mean she just she just couldn't play properly and and the only way was was just on it and she hits a big ball i mean she really strikes strikes the ball well you know and and i don't know i just i just think how tight you only became when she was a set in five two up i mean you could just feel it coming you could feel this turnaround coming and then when and honestly when she got the first break back cocharetto i i said this is she's gonna she's gonna win this you know this this is over and I actually took I say I've watched every ball I think I took one short break at the end of that second set and I came back and suddenly it's 4-0 for you anyway and I couldn't see that coming at all that just didn't feel likely I thought oh brilliant you know this is what for her you know what an amazing comeback and this will this will likely extend the tie into the doubles because Paolini was coming up and she was obviously the favorite in her match and then this this comeback started again and it was just the same thing this tightening of of of Yuanuei and at the same time it was also Cotierreta just extending points extending rallies realizing what was going on down the other end of the court just not missing getting better as as it got tight and tense so I think you have to say it was a choke in terms of the tightness that that kind of happened out there but I also think you have to give massive credit for the Italian not not just getting down on yourself not giving in it would have been so easy to just think it's not happening I'm not playing well especially in the second set there and then when you lose your way in the third as well I think I think it really was both um because it wasn't like the ball was just spraying everywhere I mean these were extended rallies and you're watching it and you're thinking i'm almost willing you anyway to win because she's hanging in as hard as she can in these rallies and she just won't miss she cuts your just will not miss and eventually you anyway missed and it was pretty heartbreaking actually to see to see that and i thought brilliant contest um and then you know the second one started to go a similar direction it was just a it was a real surprise to me watching it Yeah, I think a lot of neutrals would have been rooting for Yuan Yue for a lot of reasons, but generally for the sake of the tie, because everybody knew what was coming was Jasmine Paulini against Wang Jin Yu and Paulini the very heavy favourite in this match.

11:39And yet she was second best for so much of this contest, David. Wang Jin-yu served for the match and Paolini ended up coming through 4-6, 7-6, 6-4, like by her own admission, very far from her best at any stage in this match. But a real example of, I think someone from the Italian team put it in terms of, you know, how just playing for the flag giving them that extra 10 but she she needed it in this match yeah she just had to dig so deep because she was kind of getting outplayed and she also wasn't playing well it was very similar match really in terms of feel and you know she would win long points and then just sort of getting from 30 all to 40 30 things like that and and just celebrating with a really guttural roar.

12:38And I thought, wow, you can feel how much the players that are there, the teams that are being represented, how hard they're trying, how much this means to them. I mean, I think those that aren't there and the teams that didn't make it, it can feel a little bit difficult to relate to, I think, unless you're one of the teams there or unless you really take the time to watch it. and if you do, my goodness, it's worth it. It just shows what team sport can do in tennis and makes me sad, really, that it's not on an even bigger stage and that there's not more people taking notice and that they haven't worked out a calendar yet that properly allows for this and gets behind it the way, say, the US Open decided to get behind its own mixed doubles.

13:27You know, this was fantastic sport. this tie was everything that I want in sport and particularly team sport and there was true heartbreak in that first tie and there was jubilation from Team Italy who've kept themselves afloat really when they were bang up against it. Yeah, that's kind of been my big takeaway of watching these few days is that, and look, for me, it's my first time watching the Villaging King Cup finals in its new form on TV rather than being there. So I'm aware that I'm having a bit of a different experience anyway. But my big takeaway has been that, yes, we can look at the crowds and we can look at the location and we can look at the calendar and all this kind of thing.

14:22And we can have, I think, valid criticisms of those aspects. but what always delivers is the matches you know like the players and the matches always provide drama which sort of adds to the frustration that it isn't an even bigger event as as david said there but like the number of compelling matches that i've watched at the billy jean king cup over the last few years has been so many and i feel like we've had that again already this week. Okay, like I think the four teams we probably expected to win all the ties have come through but many of the matches have been more dramatic and more exciting than we might have thought.

15:03Players have played better than we might have thought especially as you said Yuan Yui and Wang Jin Yu for China. Like they're bringing it and I feel like sort of frustrated that therefore the event isn't even bigger and these players aren't getting the even bigger stage and attention that they deserve but also kind of like i don't know strangely proud of the of the fact that like still they show up and they play these matches and they're really compelling viewing like every time and there is something about these matches that if there are tour level matches i might not be hanging on every ball but because they're belgian King Cup and they're playing for their country and the stakes feel big I am hanging on every ball and even in not necessarily a full stadium I know they were for these matches that we're just talking about that that drama and that tension has come through and yeah there's just there's just gold there to mine and and the sport isn't doing it and it's not the fault of the event the events trying but factors in its way I want to talk a little bit more about Paulini but I feel like we should be able to look ahead to the semi-final when we do that so let's talk about the other the other quarterfinal in this half of the draw Ukraine beating Spain 2-0 Marta Kostchuk and Alina Svitolina getting the job done here Svitolina winning an absolute thriller 7-5 in the third against Paolo Bedosa and Kostiuk somewhat more comfortable straight sets a tight first one 7-6-6-2 against Jessica Bouthas-Monero you're happy to talk about this this tie Matt?

16:51Absolutely. You've got some takes off you go let's have some takes. Well first take was 9am I think it was our time when the lineups dropped and Paolo Bedosa is in for Spain. You know, we weren't sure whether she was going to play or not. We knew she was in the squad, but was she healthy enough to play? She hadn't played a competitive match in 78 days. And here she is thrust into a pretty big one, which turned out to be one that she needed to win to keep Spain alive. Because obviously, Kostya could win for Ukraine in the first match, which was a kind of really dramatic first set where neither of them could quite get the momentum.

17:36It kept swinging back and forth. Kostiuk actually in her post-match interview called out her own bad tie-break record in 2025 and said she was worried about having to go to a tie-break because she's been so poor in them this year. But I think she won, I think only her second tie-break of the year, something like that, to win that first set and then was able to take a bit more control of the match. And she was impressive, you know, against Bufas Monero who's had a really good run of form recently. But then I found Svitolina Badossa just compelling, really compelling because Badossa, despite not playing for so long, came out playing brilliantly.

18:15I mean, that first set, she was so good and forced Svitolina to kind of override even this new version of herself, which is trying to be more and more aggressive. She took it to a whole new level and went even more aggressive than she has been playing in the last couple of years and wrestled control of this one. And I thought Badossa was starting to fade in that third set as Svitolina went up 4-1. But then Badossa's spirit and will and just refusal to give in and she just wouldn't go away. And she got it all the way back level again. And I thought we were heading for a deciding set tie break only for Svitolina to break and win it 7-5 right at the end.

19:01But I just thought it was a real, really compelling match with Bedosa showing a brilliant level of form and Svitolina a fantastic mid-match adjustment. And then both of them real fight and spirit and kind of showing off the absolute best of what they have and what this competition has. And just a really, really big win for Ukraine, you know taking them to the semi-finals of this competition for the first time ever and you know just a lot of really sort of inspiring quotes from particularly Svitolina afterwards talking about how you know the invasion of Russia has set tennis back in Ukraine you know like people have got fewer playing opportunities um because of because of that invasion and she said that everyone back home is watching there's a live stream that's free to watch and you know people people are gathering around to watch it and hopefully be inspired by it and and they feel that and it it it comes through when they play you know they are they are everyone there is playing with passion but those ukrainian players i think in particular and it's very moving actually to see them perform like that and win like that.

20:18And it sets up a fascinating semifinal because Kostiuk's got a winning record over Cocciaretto and Svitolina's got a winning record over Paolini. So if Italy can get it to the doubles, I think they'd be the favourites. But maybe on form, potentially, and also on history, it feels like Ukraine might have the age in the singles. So it's really nicely poised. Yeah, when I saw those performances and I read those quotes from the Ukrainian team that you've just laid out there, Matt, I kind of wanted to go back to Monday and revise my prediction or at least revise the amount of consideration I gave to Ukraine as potential champions.

21:08And I mean, obviously, I went down completely the opposite road of ignoring the whole, you know, this competition is traditionally about who can be greater than the sum of their parts. And I went with the sum of the parts and I picked Team USA. But I kind of wish I'd, I'm wondering now if I had my time again, I'd go down the opposite road and pick Ukraine who are just playing for something so huge, which is always a boost, I think, even more so in a team competition, even more so, I think, at this time of year, when everyone's on fumes, everybody's on fumes, everyone needs something else. to really give them an edge in a match.

21:59There's not much to choose between these players at the top of the game. You need an edge. I don't know. I've just got a sneaky feeling about Ukraine this week. Certainly Ukraine reaching the final and beating Italy maybe in this semi-final. And obviously those head-to-heads that Matt's laid out, David, from a tennis perspective, they obviously help with that feeling. This is a massive edge that Ukraine have in that respect on Italy, especially with Paolini not in fantastic form, seemingly. Yes, she found a way to haul herself over the line, but that was not an in-form Paolini that we saw against Wong Jinyu.

22:42Well, I've gone for Ukraine against the US in the final. So, you know, it's on. but actually what I love about hang on you went for the US as well you were my prediction buddy but I've got Ukraine in the final let's see if that happens but losing to the team that is potentially not greater than the South anyway it hasn't happened yet now I'm gloating early which you shouldn't do we've been here before haven't we yes I've laid out the rules of predictions versus gloating and we're not there yet first comes avoiding humiliation second comes answering your doubters and then third is answering your doubts and third is gloating gloating uh without even being skipped a couple of bases here being provoked um but but but what i do like is the fact that you've got those singles you've got that premium on those singles performances for ukraine because they're gonna be the underdogs in the doubles you know you've got to get it done in two most likely and maybe not maybe it maybe they will be able to pull it out in the doubles.

23:47It's quite funny, Ukraine. I would love to see them in the doubles because they've got the Kikshinok twins, but they don't play together. I mean, I know they have played together in the past, but they're not typical doubles partners. That's still a thing. And do you want Svitolino on court or Kostiuk? Or do you put the two singles players together in the last minute and say, you go and do it? It's pretty mouth-watering as a prospect. either way. I love that about the team selection possibilities. One of the Kitchenock sisters is a lot better than the other, certainly in terms of results up to this point, right?

24:27There's the one that plays with Jelena Osterpenko a lot. Ludmilla? Yeah, I think sort of historically they've had quite similar careers. But yes, I think it's Ludmilla who's won a couple of slams, I want to say. but you're right there's a reason why they're not playing together regularly I think they've won on the tour I looked it up I think they've won four tour level titles together but not that recently you know it's been they've had different partners recently so yeah it'd be really interesting and I suppose if it goes to the doubles that means that one of Costia Consvitolina has lost you know so then they've got to come back and play doubles which you know can be good points approve and all that kind of thing we kind of saw that with Pugula today but equally it requires a sort of pick-me-up and maybe then you partner one of the singles players with a double it's like that to me is the most fascinating element of the Billie Jean King Cup like and the Davis Cup what they do with the doubles and how they work out those combinations and I would I would I think this would be a tie that would that would really play into that because we know what the Italian team is going to be but Ukraine feel like they've got questions that they would need to answer and you know it would be fascinating to see Does Paulini have a Svitolina problem?

26:02Well she has had this year you know she lost to her in Australia she lost to her at Roland Garros the Roland Garros match was so good such a high level I believe there was an Amelie Muresmo press conference during the middle of it which was somewhat frustrating for us what a huge surprise but you look at that and it was kind of like well these two players are playing really well against each other it's not like Paolini's struggling to bring her best against Svitolina but Svitolina has powered through both deciding sets in particular in their matches is much more one-sided than you would have expected.

26:42And it seems that once Svitolina kind of cracks it in that match, she can kind of take over. And she has done particularly by being ultra-aggressive in the way that she was to help turn the match around against Bedossa as well. So I think going into it, I do make Svitolina the slight favourite in that one, considering the matches they've had and considering... do you think paulini looked a bit tired you know or or just out of form i mean it's it's it's an interesting one isn't it i i i didn't her body language is so up all the time that i never really think of it like that in the way that you can see on other players but i think the maybe the performance itself that she's trying her absolute damnedest out there but it is like Catherine said it's it's on fumes stuff she's getting the last dregs out I guess the other well the other question that occurs to me about this upcoming semi-final is whether Cotillareto will keep her place given that head-to-head against Kostrick I think three and one Kostrick leads the head-to-head now she's never she's never played Bronzetti so it's not like I mean she could have a Bronzetti problem as well but we just don't sorry Bronzetti could have a Kostiuk problem as well but we just don't know it yet but is an unknown better than a bad known I mean it would be brutal to drop Kostiuk after that incredible comeback in the opening tie but these are the sort of hard-headed decisions that the captains are there to make David.

28:25I do think Kostiuk is pretty heavy favourite against either one but I would I would be going Cotteretto I think given that she's the player who who beat Jessica Begula who hits that that sort of heavy top player ball you know and and she had answers to that and so I think her her top level is if she has a good day Cotteretto I think she could be a match for her um I was amazed really that Kostiuk managed to win that first set against both us many arrows she went and break down and and i thought in the first three games oh kostjuk's hitting the living daylight's out of the ball and yet she finds herself behind i thought she was going to get beaten in that match the way it was the way it started but she she's so gritty and you know her determination you you wouldn't thought she was tired i mean she doesn't look in remotely tired and actually i think that might be another factor is I think Svitolina hasn't had that many wins of late.

29:25Maybe there's a bit more fuel in the tank, really, on players that have... I know Kostya had a run in the summer, but for the most part, it was a quiet time from the clay onwards. So, I don't know, and it means so much to them. I think that they have got more energy in the tank and, yeah, I think Ukraine are going to win. Matt, Italy will be your picks for the title. Do you feel any differently now, having seen what you've seen? Or some of what you've seen, you know, golf permitting? I do feel a bit differently, actually. I do think Ukraine can get it done in the singles. But I'm not going to underestimate Jasmine Paolini.

30:14And I'm going to stick with it and think that she pulls it out of the bag. Oh, you're going to have it both ways. I see what you've done there. Yeah. I feel differently, but I'm sticking with my prediction. That's exactly it. A classic of the genre. Moving on to the bottom half of the draw, we have a semi-final between the USA and Great Britain. Let's start with the USA's 2-1 win over Kazakhstan, the only of the quarterfinals to go to the doubles. that because we had Emma Navarro saving two match points to beat Yulia Putinsaver winning 7-6 in the deciding set. We had Elena Rabakina crushing Jessica Bagula 6-4, 6-1.

31:01That took it to the doubles where we had Jessica Bagula and Taylor Townsend saving a set point in the second to beat Rabakina and Putinsaver in straight sets. Now a lot of this happened in the wee hours of the morning. But we do have a wee hours of the morning correspondent in David Law. Emi Navarro's incredible win over Yulia Putin-Saver. David, talk us through it. Yeah, I woke up at about 5 a.m. this morning and just saw the latter stages of this match. And it was so dramatic. I mean, Putin-Saver was just playing such a wonderful blend of tennis that was a nightmare to face. just all sorts of angles and spins I mean she's a player of variety most of the time but she took it to another level in this match short, long sort of high, low every angle you could imagine was coming at Navarro and again a little bit like the players from China she should have won, she should have won that match huge credit to Navarro for finding a way out of it and to win I mean, you know, the second of the match points was a long rally that Putin's ever had.

32:23And she's just kind of run out of gas in that rally. And I think you've got to give huge credit to Navarro for just sticking in there and winning that. Because, you know, the way the second rubber went, I mean, you'd have thought that maybe Pagula might come out with her teammate having won and just be flying in that next one. She didn't get a chance, the performance that Rebecca had put up. But I mean, you know, Navarro has basically got that team a win by being so gritty. I mean, obviously you needed the doubles team to come through, of which Pagula was part and alongside Townsend. But yeah, Navarro has come in late notice, replaced in Madison Keys, and she is delivered when, frankly, she was second best for most of it.

33:12is it a worry for the USA Matt that Pagula was so roundly beaten in the singles obviously they'll they'll likely if you know if they're going to go all the way and win this thing they'll likely be relying on Jessica Pagula's points in the singles as well as the doubles um was it a worry the nature of that defeat to Rabakina or was that just all about Rabakina and she can kind of do that to anybody on her day? I do think Pagula, to me, looked a little slow to get going. And she arrived in Shenzhen, I think, not with loads of time to prepare for this. I think the turnaround from post-US Open to this has been quite quick for someone who went all the way to the semifinals in New York and then had a bit of time at home and then on to China.

34:07Like, I think that's been a lot. And I think it's not a surprise if she's not at her best. I do think the US is built so that I think they can win it without Pagula winning a singles match. Like, I think if Navarro can keep coming through, I think maybe that might be more of a concern, to be honest. Like, Navarro's form. Like, I think they're obviously going to need a singles win, obviously but I think if Pagula's not at her best the US strength should be that their number two is so much stronger but I think Navarro maybe isn't quite at her best at the moment and if she were to come up against for example Akostyuk in a potential final that David predicted days ago then that might be a worry for the US because you know obviously Svitolina would be very strong there as well.

35:00So, but to go back to this match specifically today, I thought Rebecca was pretty much unplayable. Like in those conditions, indoors, she should be unplayable. With her serve, with her second serve, as well, you see a lot of players have their second serve attacked and Rebecca was attacking Pagoulas. The way Rebecca was hitting that second serve today, you can't even attack that ball. As soon as she gets the first strike in, it's over. Like she was just hitting the ball so cleanly, so powerfully. I think playing like that against someone who can't really disrupt her all that much, doesn't have loads of different spins and all that kind of thing, I think Rebecca Caner just was unplayable today.

35:49But I would have a little bit of concern about their form, perhaps. Yes, in the singles. They got it done today in the doubles. But I don't think they're right where they want to be, the US, if that makes sense. Yeah, and they've obviously had a bit of a rocky week in terms of their time in Shenzhen leading into this quarterfinal. This from reporting in The Athletic by Charlie Eccleshire and James Hansen. And a lot of you will have seen this online where it's kind of blown up a little bit, particularly in China. Taylor Townsend having to or choosing to apologize after posting a series of videos on Instagram in which she mocked a buffet in China.

36:41At a dinner with her teammates, Townsend posted a video of a buffet focusing on a bowl of sea cucumbers, which is a delicacy in China. And she said, this is crazy. This angle is effing nuts. This is crazy. I've never seen one of these up close, especially not to eat. Craziest thing I've ever seen. And people are eating this. I'm going to have to talk to HR because what the hell? Turtle and bullfrog is wild. Again, two dishes that are delicacies in China. She then posted another video on her story saying, I'm honestly just so shocked at what I saw in the dinner buffet. As I go back and I look, these people are literally killing frogs, bullfrogs.

37:25Aren't those poisonous? Aren't those the ones that give you warts and boils and stuff and turtles? And the fact that it's all stewed up with chilies, peppers and onions. And then you've got the sea cucumbers just staring there with the noodles. The only thing that we eat, all in all, I'd give this like a solid two out of ten so far because this is crazy. she was heavily criticized on well on all social media but particularly on Chinese social media she was I think the number one trending topic on on Weibo with Chinese equivalent kind of of Twitter over there accused of of cultural insensitivity which I I think everybody can agree is pretty glaring there.

38:09And she did quite quickly post a video with the following words. She said, I understand that I'm so privileged as a professional athlete to be able to travel around the world and experience cultural differences. There's no excuse. There's no words. I will be better. So she's obviously owning it completely. No specifics Fix in the apology, I think, is the only sort of glaring omission there. But she has got onto it very quickly. But this caught fire very quickly in China. And actually, there was a bit of a delay in announcing the US names on the team sheet for the doubles. And I was starting to wonder if Taylor Townsend maybe wouldn't even play.

38:54And she did in the end. And look, they got the win. But there was some hostility towards her from the Chinese fans. I saw a picture of somebody holding up a sign about her. It's not been an ideal week for Team USA, put it that way, Matt. No, absolutely not. Yeah, look, people probably don't need me to explain why what she said was wrong and why she needed to apologise, using, I think, particularly the phrase, these people, was extremely, well, condescending at best and, you know, describing people from China as though they're some kind of savages or something for eating what they eat was really quite nasty to hear.

39:52and actually as James pointed out in that piece on the athletic there has been a number of incidents of WTA players making again culturally insensitive at best comments about China over the last couple of years there's been incidents with Paola Bedossa there's been an incident with Magda Lynette as well and now this one from Taylor Townsend I think her apology yeah she didn't even use the words China or Chinese people in her apology she seemed to be very much sort of centering her apology on the embarrassment that she'd brought on the US rather than really apologising to the Chinese people and her comments very much played into a to a stereotype that we that we know exists um and you know she was viewing viewing chinese cultural delicacies through the lens that her views on food are more acceptable than than those of of of chinese people so it was a it was a deeply deeply regrettable video and series of videos that she posted um i think particularly it it sort of feels sort of heightened because it's taylor townsend and we've just had taylor townsend at the us open uh in you know be be the sort of victim of similar sorts of comments um in terms of their insensitivity and sort of racial undertones um i really don't want to do the thing that i've seen a lot of people and commentators doing sort of this sort of somehow justifying what osteopenko did and said like absolutely not let's let's not do that for a second these are these are separate incidents um yes i think good that taylor townsend deleted those videos and did a video apology rather than just doing a sort of notes app apology but i do think that there was that was still pretty short um of what would have been a you know a sort of better apology um and yeah just a just a really really horrible episode to be quite honest.

42:30Yeah and as much as damage limitation has been done and she took to the court today and they got the win like I don't think this is just going to disappear for Taylor Townsend and Team USA. I think it's going to be carried for the rest of the week and probably for the rest of Taylor Sanzan's career and future trips to China, to be honest. Their semi-final on Saturday will be against Team GB. That because GB beat Japan handily, doing it in the singles. Sone Cartel beating Inishibahara 6-3, 7-6. And Katie Bolter beating Muka Uchijima 6-2, 6-1. One of the best recent victories and performances I've seen from Katie Bolter.