BONUS - AO Re-Lived: Andy Murray’s Near Misses

49:05He'd only dropped one set before the final. That was against Marin Cilic in the semis. He beat Rafael Nadal in the quarterfinals. OK, that was via a Rafael Nadal retirement. And look, that looks a one-sided scoreline in the final. It's three straight sets. He did have five set points in the third set versus Federer. And I remember certainly the coverage that I was watching, David, all the commentary was, this would be the turning point. You know, he's still in this. He can come all the way back against Roger Federer. But he couldn't convert any of them. And I'm looking at this photo here of giddy boyish Roger Federer with the Australian Open trophy in hand and Andy Murray's sort of semi-silhouetted in the background, hand on hip.

49:59And of course, that was the speech, the ceremony where Murray delivered the line, I can cry like Roger. It's just a shame that I can't play like him. Yeah, this is the first of two years where I didn't attend the Australian Open because my kids were being born. And so I watched this one on TV and listened on the radio, same as you, back home. But it was interesting to follow the coverage. And it was also interesting to look back on it and see the pressure that Federer kind of heaped on him just before that match with his post-match interview after the semifinals. I think that was the one where he says, I think Britain's had a Grand Slam champion for, what is it, 150 ,000 years or something like that.

50:51and you know that was i think those things did get to to to the opponent certainly to murray i think he would have heard those things um but you know he again you you start the match off with the hype i mean there's there's there was boris becker on bbc one i was looking up the the sort of live text commentary on the bbc sport website which is still available you know 16 years on and becker comes into the match saying, I'm going for Murray. I'm listening to my stomach. And it tells me there could be a changing of the guard today. Federer then breaks immediately, wins the match. And then Becker at the end goes, we know he can get to semifinals and finals, but he still expects opponents to lose.

51:37And I think that that is quite a significant quote, really, about styles from Murray. You know, he just, I don't, I think that's harsh. But maybe when you get to the absolute level of Federer, and I think you see in years that follow, I mean, when we watched, I watched another Federer match from some four years later, and then when he's playing Djokovic, when he's under Lendl, it is a different court positioning. You seeing a different, just approach to the sport from Andy Murray. And that's what you've picked out here, Matt. I'm sure you read a lot of coverage from this match and all the matches that we're talking about here, but you've picked out this brilliant line from Kevin Mitchell in The Guardian, writing at the time, he said, On the big night, Murray did not fully trust his talent.

52:36His conservatism sucked the life from his gifts. yeah and as you said there was there was a number of years where the criticism of Murray was too passive too conservative and it really showed up in this final because actually you know I was one of those people who yes you know I'm a Brit but I was I was definitely rooting for Federer in this match and as a Federer fan I was scared of Murray Murray knew how to play Federer he had won six of their 10 meetings at this stage going into it and if you think about our interview with Murray just a just a few weeks ago Murray talked about how he had studied Federer's game and therefore he came out the blocks early in his career knowing how to play him and looping the ball up to Federer's backhand and you know he was comfortable in that matchup just from a pure tennis perspective but Murray did talk about how he found the aura of Federer hard to deal with when they met in those Grand Sam finals early on especially and they'd obviously already met in a US Open final at this stage and Federer had won that in straight sets and now he wins this Australian Open final in straight sets and as David said Federer is not giving the impression before this match that he's scared of Murray going into a grandstand final because in that interview with Jim Currier he is joking around and yes he gives that line about the 150 ,000 years he also like looks directly in the camera and talks at Murray and says Andy if you're listening I'm gonna slice it you're gonna lob me I'm gonna hit it through the legs like he's being really really playful about the matchup and kind of just there's a sort of comfort there to Federer that I think he knows that in a big match he has got such an advantage over Andy Murray and will be able to like impose his game on it and if you watch this match Murray does target the Federer backhand but he doesn't go into it with anywhere near enough pace and actually Federer's backhand in this match ends up looking amazing and incredible and he hits so many brilliant backhand winners off it.

54:53And yeah, you kind of see the gulf in the context of a major final. You know, on tour over the last couple of years, Murray's not that far off, but in the big, big matches, Federer is able to play his game and Murray is still in this era of being just a little bit too passive and kind of allowing Federer to play that game. It's obviously far easier said than done. Federer is an absolute master. But yeah, for those two sets, the first two sets were not that close in this one, especially the second save, and that was 6-4. That was actually a really comfortable set for Federer, and it just felt like, oh, it's over.

55:34And yes, Murray rallies in that third set, but you just can't afford to go two sets of love down against Federer. I love Matt talking about his deep, deep sort of peak big three nerdiness era. I love to imagine like young, younger Matt being like, so like the way you remember those matches. Like I was working the sport at the time and I watched all of these and I've, I've remembered them, but I mean, you, you remember them like it was your family playing. Oh yeah. And the thing is I would do that thing of rewatching them, you know? So I've not just seen, I've not just seen these matches once I've seen them many times You can recite them the way I can recite I'm Alan Partridge How did it play out with people you knew that I imagine the layperson amongst your peers, your friends your family maybe are supporting Murray and you're there cheering for the other guy Do you know like my family would always support Nadal, like Nadal would be the person they would want to win the most.

56:50My friends were not that into tennis. Like they would play tennis, but they were not into it. They didn't really care about the results of these matches all that much. Which I needed the barge. I needed the podcast. That's why like two years later, I was listening to the podcast on the school bus because no one else would talk tennis with me. So I would listen to you two. No one would re-watch Big Three matches. I know, right? Big Four. Young Matt. By the way... Is it a big four at this point, Matt? What's the adjudication on that? It's big two, isn't it? Yeah, big two, I would say, at this point.

57:25Yeah, okay. Which I think also... Sorry, just if we want to stay on the 2010 final, but I do think that will lead into why the 2011 finals felt so shocking to me. Even at this stage, Murray is not that far behind Djokovic at all. He's kind of right there with him. Obviously, Djokovic's already won an Australian Open, but they're kind of tethered at this point, Marion Djokovic. So yeah, I would say very much big two in the 2010 times and 2011 Australian Open as well. And he got, I think I'm right in saying he got wins over Federer later that year in Canada and Shanghai finals. So he's winning finals, but a major final is still different.

58:07That is very clear. And just finally on that, interview with Jim Currier the on-court interview that you've talked about the Roger Federer did with Jim Currier after his semi-final where he's looking ahead to the Andy Murray final which by the way Matt was able to produce a link to suspiciously quickly dropped it in dropped all of them as well yeah it's just a perfect example of like Federer just used to get away with everything you know it's just and I'm not saying that's wrong like it's just that that go and watch it Matt can you can drop a link to it in the show notes Matt like it's it is a demonstration of the power of charm in the world because like those words out of somebody else's mouth you're like you smug arrogant twat but it's Roger Federer and it's like aww he's being a bit playful he's confident but he's got the goods to back it up so it's fine it's just it's extraordinary yeah and he did that's the story of his career and his life isn't it like he did say some pretty if you read them written down now some things you said you read transcripts and you're like I can't say that okay just on the subject of these post-match comments I think this is the first day that the world warmed to Murray as a human being because he showed emotion I don't remember him showing emotion after a match before this one really, not in this way, not crying certainly not that sort of vulnerable emotion to say I can cry like Roger he always emoted on the court didn't he but it was always frustration or yeah that the anger that's it vulnerability i can cry like roger it's just a shame i can't play like him great amazing line to use on court and and i think there's certainly in britain where there is so still so many people who are thinking yeah well he's good but i don't like him and this i think a lot of people were okay with him losing because they started to like him Definitely.

1:00:31This was a point where I was fully in on Andy Murray. I felt like I could always see that human being in him. I felt like I always got him in a way that the British public didn't, certainly not at this stage of his career. This is real me finding myself being an Andy Murray apologist in every tennis conversation I found myself in era. That was how I was experiencing tennis in the wider world at this point. And can I be clear, I liked Andy Murray. Like if Federer wasn't going to win, I wanted Andy Murray to win. It was a Federer thing. It was all upside for Matt Roberts. Yeah, it's a great day.

1:01:20OK, well, let's fast forward then to 2011 and the second final, a second Australian Open final that Andy Murray would reach, making it back-to-back finals. he comes into this tournament ranked at five in the world and he loses this final to Novak Djokovic and he loses it handily 6-4, 6-2, 6-3 and Djokovic had beaten Federer in the semi-finals he had won the Davis Cup at the end of 2010 this was new Novak Djokovic, David at the start of the 2011 season Yeah, this was the year that he did become part of a big three, where he just moved himself into another stratosphere altogether. You know, what was the streak at when he finally lost to Roger Federer?

1:02:21I mean, it was in the 40-something, wasn't it? To win the first 40-something matches of the year, you know, is just... And it was ended by the Roger Federer finger wag. Yes, at the French Open. So he's not lost a tennis match until the French Open. And he's played everything. And he's won everything. And he's beaten all of his contestants. He's beaten them all. And absolutely astonishing. And to win this final against Murray 6-4, 6-2, 6-3, I think was really jarring because we didn't see that coming. Because this is at the start of that run. You know, you might have got used to that by two or three months down the line, but this felt very 50-50 going in to this final to me.

1:03:08And I was commentating on it. I would have been doing the second set and the fourth set, but there wasn't a fourth set. So I had a 6-2. But I mean, you know, it's like it was just a nothing match. You just didn't get going. Yeah, that's what I remember about this, because Marriott won his last three against Djokovic, all of them on a hard court. And as I said, at the time, you know, you can a little bit more write off the 2010 final because it's the great Roger Federer. But at the time, yes, what we know now is that Djokovic had already probably ascended into a level, maybe a few levels above what Andy Murray would reach.

1:03:53But at the time, they felt so level, did Murray and Djokovic. It really felt like this should be close. Like this is a chance. Finally, he's playing a Grand Sanfano and he's not playing Roger Federer. And yet it is so one-sided. This match is bad. like really not a good Grand San final at all. It's 6-2 that second set as you said it was 5-0 to know about Djokovic at one point in it like he is all over Andy Murray and Murray is flat you know and I just watched Murray at the 0-2 play that incredible match against Nadal at the end of the 2010 season which I think is a really all like underrated big four match and it just felt like Murray was there like with these guys and finally he's got another opportunity in a slam final to show it and he he just lays a bit of an egg really and this is now a problem in grand slam finals he's reached three of them and he hasn't won a set and in all of them he's been too passive and not been able to impose his game and really not come close to winning any of them albeit against great opponents You know, always think the other members of the big four had their first Grandstand finals against people who hadn't won majors, you know, and Murray in his first Grandstand finals kept coming up against players.

1:05:21He had a hard path kind of into it, did Murray, but he just wasn't really at this stage stepping up in these biggest matches. Kevin Mitchell in The Guardian wrote after this final This was one of the Scots' poorest displays in a long time He moved with the bounce of a sloth Served meekly and lacked any of the vim that had carried him this far He did not like the tension in his racket or in his soul He was leaden, sullen, beaten He blinked, tugged at his leg, shouted at his mother Swore at the seagulls and whatever conversation he was having with himself would have been a very black dialogue indeed.

1:06:04But his passion was misdirected. It was not his team or the Seagulls who were losing this final. It was him. I remember this Australian Open for lots of gluten chat, David. This was the Novak Djokovic. What are you doing differently? differently how are you such a different proposition to what you were just a few months ago and I remember it being partly but put down to that Davis Cup win at the end of 2010 sort of the proverbial springboard and partly he had got come into 2011 gluten-free and it had changed his life and all the media were going gluten-free wondering what it could do for them too well suddenly it was It was the thing.

1:06:53Murray said he decided to have a go at it as well at some point. I don't know how long afterwards, but he says, I couldn't do it. I didn't like it. But he was in a slump. This was the start of a slump, this match. Because, you know, I looked up his results. He went on. He didn't win another match until the clay court season. And he lost to Donald Young and Alex Bogomolov Jr. year both ranked outside the top 100 in the sunshine double um and then then he got things going again on the clay but he was sort of perennial semi-finalist in everything really he got to the semis uh Wimbledon and the US Open and he had a good clay court season he had some results there he was doing some work with Alex Correcha that year but he he finished with Miles McLaggen the year sort of six months earlier before this Australian Open in 2011 but he was It felt like he was treading water a bit.

1:07:52You know, he'd reached Grand Slam finals already and he's not kind of moving it along any further. There was kind of only one place for him to go from here, right? He'd done everything else. It was, okay, you've got to win one now. Yes. And anything else you do is, the box is already ticked. And I think for him that caused a bit of a slumber. You've had Roger Federer do the old, in his final speech the previous year, do the old, the tennis-relived classic of you're too good. Don't sweat it, Andy. You're definitely going to win one. But everybody was starting to sweat it at this point, not necessarily because he'd lost these three finals, but because of the manner of the defeats.

1:08:43He was not playing his best in the biggest matches, and that is generally considered to be the mark of a champion. People were wondering whether there was that chip missing, I think, around this time. I was going to say, also, you've got the picture suddenly looking even harder because of the step up that Novak Djokovic has taken. It's no longer wait for Roger Federer to get old and then you're neck and neck with Novak Djokovic and you've got Rafael Nadal to contend with. It's now, well, hang on a minute, Federer's not getting old. Nadal's obviously still a problem. And now Novak Djokovic is playing like this.

1:09:30It's suddenly really, really, really hard to win a major. And yeah, as you said, enter Ivan Lendl. Enter Ivan Lendl. David tell me you must remember the Ivan Lendl appointment you know it was very clearly here's a guy that's been in the shoes that I'm in now he's been brought on board to to get Andy Murray over that Grand Slam finish line it was a it was massive news because even Lendl had been one of those that had just disappeared from view once he'd retired. He was on the golf course. I remember you and I came into touch with him, Catherine, at a Champions event, I think, in Paris. And John McEnroe played against him and was just reveling in beating him.

1:10:25But the truth is, in terms of serious tennis, he wasn't anywhere to be seen at all. And yet here was a guy who had, in my youth, dominated the sport rankings-wise. He was the number one. He didn't win Wimbledon, which is, I guess, what I measured people against at the time because that's what I knew. But he'd won everything else, and he was world number one. And then as we drilled down into it a little further, he'd got exactly the same route to Grand Slam success that Andy Murray was trying to plough himself. which is lose several finals and then finally crack it and and it was it was really interesting I mentioned now I think maybe a Brad Gilbert could have come on and and had a super coach impact um but actually I think Lendl might have been very specific for Murray he needed to he wasn't necessarily hearing jaw-dropping advice that nobody else had come up with but it was Lendl saying it it wasn't anybody else and and andy roddick's talked about how when jimmy connor said it it had more credibility to him than than when other coaches had said it you know because he knows and he's done it um and i mean it there are some players and and i'm looking at alexander's very who i think is sufficiently uh arrogant that he's that that doesn't have an effect on him you He had won Carlos Ferreira.

1:12:00It didn't seem to make any difference to him at all in that regard. But Murray did, and he bought into that.

1:12:09And he comes into this Australian Open 2012, ranked four in the world. He's lost in the semi-final of the three previous slams, so the French Wimbledon US Open at the end of 2011. He's got Ivan Lendl in tow. So he's won Brisbane, his warm-up event prior to the Australian Open. It's all there. It felt like the pieces were falling into place here. And he makes it to the semi-finals, having dropped just the one set. He was absolutely purring, David. The hype must have been unreal at this point. Yeah, the hype's unreal, but it's still like, until he does it against one of those guys at a big match, is it actually real?

1:13:02You know, we've seen a lot of pretty deflating performances in certainly that one the previous year. And it's interesting that he didn't reach the final in this tournament, and yet he comes out of it with so much more optimism and hope than he did when he reached the final the year before. and that's because I mean in the words of the Guardian what would Lendl bring raw aggression and I think what we all remember it for whereas the 2007 the Dal match was the backhand cross court with Lendl coming on board it was the forehand cross court it was this sudden sledgehammer Lendl like forehand that we'd just never seen before you might see occasionally in a sort of spectacular, I'm going to go for broke shot.

1:13:46But suddenly Murray was doing it all the time. And he was starting to bully opponents. But could he do that against one of the top guys? Well, against Djokovic, I mean, this is nearly five hours. And I mean, he did go, I watched highlights of this this morning, he went 6-3-2 love downed Murray in this match. But he starts to crowd the baseline all the way through. He's just, he's not taking any backward steps. And they're just toe to toe knocking lumps out of each other really but he's it felt like murray was getting the better of it a lot it's it's one of djokovic's great wins i think because murray was really coming on strong but there was it was a loss for murray in the end seven five in the fifth but it felt like a win that i was watching at home i wasn't there at the time that was it was my my baby boy and my two-year-old daughter at the time um but i remember watching that and thinking okay we've got it's heartbreaking but actually now I do believe that he has taken another step here it is his first I'm getting closer moment not the Wimbledon I'm getting closer but the the Australian Open I'm getting closer yeah I I remember hearing hearing chatter among the journalists.

1:15:10This semi-finally played against Novak Djokovic was four hours and 50 minutes. I remember the discussion being Andy Murray could bear, he was sort of seen the next day, I guess, at the airport or whatever it might have been. And he couldn't walk the next day. He was hobbling. We all know what Andy Murray hobbling looks like. That's something that we're very used to. And Novak Djokovic came back and won a five-hour, 53-minute final against Rafael Nadal, the famous one with the bleeding feet and the chairs that had to be wheeled out during the Kia speeches. Just absolutely unreal back-to-back wins for Novak Djokovic.

1:15:58hmm yeah if if i think if in i don't know 20 30 years time i had to sort of show someone a a weekend of grand slam tennis that sort of defined the big four era i would i think i would go with the australian open of of 2012 because the other semi-final was fedor and nadal and it was playing on the Thursday I remember that match made me feel ill at school following the live scores that I took the day off the next day I convinced my parents let me have the day off so I could watch Murray Djokovic because there was no point me being at school because like I wasn't paying attention it wasn't it wasn't good for me I was so stressed let me just watch the tennis please and I did watch Murray Djokovic I think maybe it was the first time I'd stayed home like on my own during a school day my mom and dad were both at work my sister was at school I had the house to myself I was watching this fine uh this semi-final and honestly it's it is the first time Murray like joins the party at a slam in terms of playing a match that feels like it's pushing the sport forward against his very best rivals you know like this is an incredible match and David's talked about the rally from a set and a breakdown the thing I remember the most is the rally in the fifth set it because it feels like Djokovic has got him Djokovic is he's won the fourth six one and I think he's five two up in the fifth it feels like this match is over and yet Murray brings it back and he gets it back to five all and he has break points in that five all game to serve for it but isn't able to convert and oh I couldn't agree more This was such a moment of, well, Murray said it, I think that gap, I felt like I closed it tonight.

1:17:54And yes, he lost. Yes, it was only the semifinal, not the final that he'd reached in the previous two years. But this was Murray showing that he can go toe to toe with his biggest rivals in the biggest tournaments in a way that he just hadn't before. It was remarkable. It sounds like sort of Ferris Bueller's day off, but instead of sampling the cultural delights of Chicago, you just sat on the sofa watching tennis. Yep, pretty much. So Andy Murray is getting closer and we move on to 2013. 13 and it's another loss in the final. Spoiler alert, it's Andy Murray losing in the Australian Open final for the third time.

1:18:48This one is also a loss to Novak Djokovic, but a very different one to his first final defeat to Novak Djokovic a couple of years prior. This one, the score 6-7, 7-6, 6-3, 6-2. He came in as the world number three, did Murray. He'd won Brisbane again. It's all set up again. It feels like the pieces are falling into place. He gets to the semis without dropping a set. In those semis, he faces and beats Roger Federer in what Simon Briggs famously dubbed the five set thrashing. and in the final what we all remember i don't know if this is what the the less nerdy general public remember but i think we all remember this match as the feather match david yes um i i was sitting in the photographer's seats for this final i wasn't commentating on it i was being given a role to be court level and courtside, which is something I've never done before or since at a Grand Slam final.

1:20:02And absolutely incredible vantage point to watch. And in the first set, he is delivering the Lendl blueprint and going toe-to-toe. And he's hurting Djokovic. He's comfortably having the better of this match, even though it was only a tie-break win. He looks like the harder-hitting player from courtside. one of the great things you get from being courtside is if you just concentrate on one of the players you get to see all their facial expressions and there's a there's a there was real tension in the face of Djokovic and and it's going on throughout the second set and honestly if you look at what's been happening Murray has just come off having won the Olympic Games he's just won his first Grand Slam title at the US Open outlasting Novak Djokovic in in a five-hour epic he's just beaten Roger Federer in the semi-finals over five sets it feels like Murray is the guy at this point he is ahead of them in in in just feel and so it was quite a surprise if somebody told me that he's not going to win it when we entered that second set tie break I'd have been really surprised he's a setup you're in a tie break it's two points all in the second set tie break and he misses his first serve Murray and then just as he's about to wind up into his second serve a feather drops out of the sky from one of the seagulls that swirls above and I'm courtside watching this this come this sort of fall down and interrupt his his um service motion and Murray goes and picks it up throws it behind him winds up into his second serve and hits it long, double fault, 2-3 down in the tiebreak, and he was never the same again.

1:21:48I mean, and look, it's more a question of fine margins. What it is, is that that was enough for Djokovic to get that little edge in the tiebreak, take a lead, win the tiebreak, one set all, suddenly everything has changed. Murray returns to his seat, he's throwing off his shoes, he's looking around for others, he's got problems with his feet he's got blisters basically um and this was an example i think of the pack hunter theory that matt has with the big three suddenly you know murray's found a way past federer and actually should have won more easily in simon briggs's word the five set flashing you know he shouldn't have been in five sets suddenly he's at one set all after two grueling sets and there really isn't enough left in the tank and suddenly that stress that i referenced about djokovic's face you saw it lift you suddenly saw his features facial features relax and he really won pretty handily from there afterwards in sets three and four i've i've always thought of this one as the one that got away and maybe a little bit in my research I've come to think that maybe 2015 should, in terms of like the actual match, is maybe even more of one that's got away.

1:23:11But I just think, as Dave has described, in this period of his career, I think 2012 and the first half of 2013, obviously culminating in the Wimbledon title, I think that's the best tennis Murray played in his career. I know he got to world number one in the back end of 2016, But this Murray is so aggressive, so like able to impose himself on the other great players. And he's doing it. He's doing it in this match, as David's described. And yeah, it just it all goes wrong in that in that second set tie break. But I had I had forgotten a little bit how how one sided sets three and four were and how hampered Murray was.

1:23:53And, you know, as David's described, maybe on reflection, even if Murray does win that second set, like, OK, maybe Djokovic doesn't relax to quite the same degree. But does Murray have it in him physically to to win another set here? I don't know. But yeah, like you, I do remember this for the feather a bit like I remember that US Open match against Nishikori for the for the gong that went off. Like these are niche bits of Andy Murray lore. Yeah, I didn't know the feather had happened at the time. It's sort of, it's watching it back and speaking to you two about it, that the feather looms large in my mind, because my memories of experiencing this match where I was working at the Australian Open at the time, I was moderating press conferences for them and doing sort of comms behind the scenes.

1:24:51And there wasn't an awful lot of that to do during the finals. And I remember there were a pair of tickets that the comms team had that were being used for a set at a time, sort of handed around the team, everyone taking it in turns to watch a set at a time. and my time came at the start of the third set. The previous person came back. I was tagged in the relay and I thought, oh, incredible, a set all. This couldn't be a better time to be handed my ticket. And I remember feeling pretty confident that not only was I going to see a finely poised, excellent tennis match at its most dramatic point, but that I was also going to see Andy Murray en route to his first win.

1:25:44I remember feeling not like I wasn't counting Djokovic out, but I felt good about Andy Murray, especially after he'd won that first set. I remember it just being a total balloon pop when I sat down. I could feel it as soon as I sat down, like the atmosphere of that match had changed and it felt, even though it's a set all, it felt like a bit of a procession at that point. Like my feelings about it, all of my hopes disappeared so quickly of having in any way a pleasurable experience of watching and I thought it was going to be super competitive, you know, and it didn't feel it from that point onwards.

1:26:34And yeah, OK, so that's three down, three final defeats down. We still have a ways to go, folks, but not 2014. 2014, Andy Murray comes in ranked four in the world. He gets to the quarterfinals where he comes up against Roger Federer and he loses in four sets. This is the era of Roger Federer where he started playing with the bigger racket, the bigger frame of racket. I don't remember this particular defeat that clearly. I think I know some people that probably do, though. David, Matt, over to you. I don't remember it enormously. I mean, I remember that Murray had been injured the year before, I think, or at the end of the year.

1:27:31Yeah, I mean, both of them are coming in off some doubts, really. Obviously, 2013 is seen as kind of the great Murray year, because that's the year he wins Wimbledon. But actually, the second half of that season, he was injured and he hadn't played a lot. And obviously 2013 was a real slump year for Federer. And that sort of prompted him to go to the bigger racket and the bigger frame. And yeah, so I think neither really felt like, you know, they were coming into the tournament with like huge hopes of winning it. Obviously, when they're in a Grandstand tournament, they're always amongst the favourites.

1:28:07But I think certainly Djokovic was ahead of them and Nadal was ahead of them. and obviously this was the tournament of Wawrinka breaking out and winning it. But yeah, this quarterfinal, I remember it mostly for Federer being able to really express himself with that bigger frame. I remember he'd already beaten Songa in this tournament, having lost to him the previous year at the French Open. It felt like Federer was back a little bit in this tournament and he was playing his aggressive tennis again. And yeah, he was definitely the better player in this match. And what I remember is it hyping up the semi-final for Federer and Nadal.

1:28:51Suddenly we were going to get that again. And actually that was a bit of a dud. Like Nadal absolutely crushed Federer that day in straight sets. But this one, yeah, kind of the odd one out year, I suppose, in this run of Murray getting to the final or really being a contender. This one is just a little bit undercooked, I think, coming into this Australian opening and gets a little bit shown up by Federer in the quarters. So fast forward to 2015. We're back into final defeat territory again. I'm looking at another heartbreaking photo. This one isn't Andy Murray doing a death stare behind Novak Djokovic.

1:29:32This isn't Andy Murray looking to the heavens behind Novak Djokovic, who's kissing the trophy. it's still heartbreaking just a slightly different genre of heartbreaking thank you Andy for mixing things up for us so it's 2015 Andy Murray is coached by Amelie Maresmo he comes into the Australian Open ranked at 6th in the world he reaches the final and there he faces his old Australian Open nemesis Novak Djokovic we had the incredible match against Grigel Dimitrov in the fourth round. We then had the straight sets win over Nick Kyrgios in the quarterfinals. And then we had the very famous semifinal victory over Thomas Burdick, David, which is, of course, best remembered for Kim Sears being caught saying, fucking have it, you Czech flash fuck.

1:30:34and this and this comes off what i believe was burdick having some words with murray on the court um you know there was some aggro um during this match and that just played into murray's hands perfectly because this was you know a close four set match that he turned around and i I think he turned it around because he just got wound up by Burdick. And yes, that moment of Kim Sears being lip read on the screen led to an extraordinary moment a couple of days later when the final was taking place. And she is wearing a T-shirt that says parental advisory, explicit content on it, which is wonderful self-awareness of realizing that she's been up in lights because she's let her mouth get away.

1:31:40That's why they all covered their mouths, these footballers, isn't it? And, you know, she's wearing that. And I always remember it as the great scoop that I didn't get because I was down in the player gathering area outside where they're looking at screens of the matches and where they book their practice courts and they're milling around. And of course, it's deserted by then because it's final day. All the players have gone. But I'm stood there to get a little bit of colour content for BBC Radio's live coverage of this final and the build-up to it. It's a big deal. Murray Djokovic, you know, we've cleared the airwaves.

1:32:22BBC Breakfast has been taken off the air because it's the big Murray match. And obviously this story about what Kim Sears has said has made a lot of noise, but nobody's expecting any follow-up whatsoever to it, really. But I'm down in the area where they're all gathered and past me walks Andy Murray's agent, Matt Gentry, with Kim Sears, with several other team members, all of whom I know a little bit, you know, and I say hello as they're walking by, and I do not notice that she's wearing this T-shirt. And Matt Gentry, I always remember the agent, has got this big grin on his face because he's aware of what she's wearing and he thinks I've clocked it and I haven't clocked it because I'm too busy saying hello to bloody Jess Green or whoever else it is who's on the team.

1:33:15So I could have had the scoop live on the radio, and I didn't. Instead, she walks out, takes her jacket off, and stands up. I remember she stood up so that everybody could have a good look and get their photo and capture this moment, and it was a very funny line.

1:33:37and murray had very much you know i think probably as he should sort of defended her hadn't he in in the press conference and actually um done one of those things of blaming the media again for creating drama because it was it was danny valvedu who was in the in the verdict coaching box like that was that was part of the source of the tension obviously valvedu who'd been very close with Murray for so many years was now with Burdick in this head-to-head in this big Grand Sam semi-final. And yeah, I remember that being so fun. I remember loving that. I thought like Kim walking out in that T-shirt jumper with that on was iconic.

1:34:21It was. It was absolutely just 10 out of 10, no notes, right in the sweet spot. Brilliant. I also remember that Burdick semi-final for Andy Murray very pointedly and very deliberately in the on-court interview afterwards, paying tribute to Emily Maresmo and everything she had brought to him and his success. and that felt important at the time because I remember this was the time, David, that we were still doing a bit of work with the Champions Tour. I'd been to a couple of Champions Tour events the previous year around the time that Andy Murray had appointed Emily Maresmo or soon afterwards and, you know, naming no names.

1:35:12But I heard a lot of the sort of stuff that Andy Murray has referenced, has talked about having been shocked by in terms of how his appointing a female coach was received by the locker room. That was very, very real. And that was very much on my mind throughout this tournament. It felt like he was, you know, playing for something more than his own success. Obviously, by this point, he's a two-time Grand Slam champion, isn't he? He's not got that point to prove, OK, he hasn't got over the Australian Open hurdle. But this tournament felt so much to me about the Amelie Maresmo of it all and the point that shouldn't have needed proving, but that did need proving and that Andy Murray knew he was aware of that.

1:36:12Yeah, I kind of learnt about that element. Maybe I should have known already, but I didn't realise it was quite that pronounced and I didn't realise how he had to win to prove her worth in the eyes of many. And it was a tough scene, that was, at the time. And yeah, he was very aware of it himself. He was very sensitive to it. He was very pissed off about it. Years later, he would refer back to it. And yeah, I think he was never more dangerous in a way than when he got something else to play for. And actually, again, a lot of it, I end up just thinking, God, Djokovic, what a player he was. What a competitor.

1:37:06because even with Andy Murray having something to rail against and fight for, couldn't take him down at the Australian Open, just couldn't do it. Yep, because yet again, Andy Murray loses to Novak Djokovic in the final. Again, he doesn't go a set up in this on Murray, but it's a set apiece. And again, the third and fourth sets are fairly one-sided in the direction of Novak Djokovic. and after the match there were accusations of gamesmanship directed towards Novak Djokovic from Andy Murray. He said the third set was frustrating because I got a bit distracted when he like, and you can hear this in Andy Murray's voice, can't you?

1:37:53When he like fell on the ground after a couple of shots, it appeared that he was cramping and then I let that distract me a little bit. The follow up question then is, is it a legitimate tactic to make your opponent think you're injured and then come back flying? No, it's not legitimate. Like, I have no idea what the issue was. He obviously looked like he was in quite a bad way at the beginning of the third set and came back unbelievable at the end of that set. Then obviously the way he was hitting the ball in the fourth and moving was impressive. So, yeah, I don't know exactly what the issue was for him.

1:38:35I'd love to think that they, you know, got this transcript out and had a good old read of it together at some point when they were working together this time last year. Funny thing is, you know, that what separated the two of them from Federer and Nadal was this stuff, because Federer and Nadal never did this at all. You never saw them. I mean, I think you sometimes heard Nadal talk about how many injuries he'd had. But in a match, you would never get any sign of weakness from them at all. Vulnerability. I think Djokovic and Murray both took some comfort from being open about how they were feeling.

1:39:24And when they'd got an energy low, they would be quite dramatic with it. Certainly Djokovic was very dramatic with an energy low and cramp and so forth. But I mean, Murray did the same for years. He was clutching at a leg. Or, you know, remember when Tommy Haas and Virginia Wade had a go at him years ago, calling him a drama queen and so forth. And I see it with my son when he plays sport. It's emotional. It's emotional. I'm losing. I feel bad. I'm going to let you know about it. And I think that that's what happens. The difference between them, though, in how it's in a lot of people's minds, and this could be this could be totally unfair, but I don't think Murray was ever accused of it being dastardly, of there being sort of malintent behind it, of him creating something tactically.

1:40:27Yeah, he would absolutely make a meal of it and let you know about it. But Djokovic has been accused, potentially unfairly, of creating mountains out of molehills as a tactic. I would suggest... And that's kind of what Murray's doing here, isn't it? After being led to it by a question from the media. that's the difference Murray didn't you didn't get questions to Murray's opponents about it in the same way I don't think it was framed here is it a legitimate tactic to maybe make your opponent think you're injured and then come back flying okay so we've accepted that that's a fact that that's what he was doing then is it no it's not I don't accept that I don't think Novak Djokovic is purposely trying to make You think he's dead on his feet only to come back flying.

1:41:29I think he's letting you know how he's feeling. And he's being a bit, I mean, a bit over, it's a bit overdramatic for my taste, but that's how he's coping. It's a coping mechanism. And yes, then he suddenly feels better because he's won a couple of points or he gets the sugar rush again and he's flying. Well, it's your fault for you letting him get in your head then. and yet us British journalists on behalf of Andy Murray want to have a go at the nasty man from Serbia because he's suddenly flying again. I don't buy it and I think that that is a bit media created. I think intent is also like intent and motivation.

1:42:17It's not necessarily a binary thing. Is it it's not necessarily someone stroking their chin and going, I've got a plan here. I'm going to fake an injury to throw him off his game and then I'm going to come back flying. Like it's not doesn't necessarily work like that, does it? An awareness of the impact that those situations have had in the past to his benefit could have consciously or unconsciously fed into decision making. Who knows? But that's not the same as sort of stroking your chin and coming up with a sort of cartoonish evil master plan. No, but I would imagine we would probably defend Andy Murray against Tommy Haas' accusations of doing the same thing years earlier.

1:43:09Yeah. Yeah, we'll never know. And I think personally that they're just kind of two peas in a pod. So I actually think they'd probably relate to one another personally. I think that is the only time that Tommy Haas and Virginia Wade are grouped together, isn't it? Calling Andy Murray a drama queen. yeah look I mean I tend to fall down on the side of Djokovic was always feeling something in those moments and his way of expressing it as you said was quite dramatic but I think maybe over the years there was as you say Catherine and the sort of cumulative effect of him knowing the effect that it would have and like not making stuff up, but also very much knowing that he didn't need to hide it and actually exaggerating it would be an effective way.

1:44:11I remember the 2019, was it 2019? No, sorry, 2020. Dominic T, the team one. The team one in 2020. like that that that's like a classic example of Djokovic like using that experience over the years like he wasn't I think he was genuinely struggling at big points in that match but rather than trying to hide it he knew that the more effective tactic would or maybe tactics the wrong word but more effective way would be let this guy know I'm feeling like this and then suddenly he's got a whole new thing to have to deal with in this grand slam final against me Like, I think that was there. I do. But I never thought he was making any of it up.

1:44:50Like, there's no need for him to just completely, like, totally make it up. And as much as Murray does say that, he does also, he is incredibly self-critical after this final. Like, he knows that it was also on him to deal with that situation. And he didn't really, you know, and he's he's crossed with himself after this final because he is toe to toe with him. in his first couple of sets. And as he said, he lets it distract him and loses his way a bit. And yeah, it ends up one-sided in that fourth set. So fast forward one more year to 2016 and what would end up being Andy Murray's last Australian Open final and his last Australian Open final defeat.

1:45:40This is the one of the famous picture where Andy Murray looks most grizzled behind Novak Djokovic, who once again is clutching the trophy. It looks extra shiny somehow, the trophy in this one. It's really gleaming in the foreground of the photo. Djokovic is speaking into the microphone. Andy Murray's head is protruding from the shoulder of Novak Djokovic. he's sort of very illuminated Murray and very sad and angry, I would say, because this was not a good performance in the final. He was ranked number two in the world at this point. Obviously, he would end this season as the world number one, but there was an awful lot of context as to why this final had the scoreline that it did.

1:46:336-1, 7-5, 7-6, obviously a big part of that context is how unbelievable Novak Djokovic was in this match and in this period of tennis. But you also had the fact that Nigel Sears, Andy Murray's father-in-law, had collapsed while coaching Anna Ivanovic during Ivanovic's match against Madison Keys. Murray was on the court playing his own match at the time so he didn't know as it happened um but it was obviously a a big part of his experience of this Australian Open went to see him in hospital thankfully it turned out Nigel Sears was was was fine um but you know they wouldn't have known that straight away it would have been a source of great great stress and anxiety and and unsettlement plus Andy Murray's wife Kim Sears daughter of Nigel Sears was very heavily pregnant back home and in the press conference after this final Murray kind of led it all out he revealed exactly how close he was to leaving the Australian Open to to pulling out of the tournament and leaving and going home he said I've been held on flights for it feels like five days.

1:47:58I've been held on almost every single flight. So the first one out of here, I'm leaving. It's at 1am, I think. I've never been in that position before. So it's as close as I've been to leaving a Grand Slam. I don't really know how close that is. But yeah, it was a tough, tough couple of days. Thankfully, he's fine now talking about Nigel Sears. He says, yeah I just want to get home and at the time David it felt like okay that all makes sense that that final it makes sense this is Andy Murray he's still on an up projectory in his career he you know in the words of Roger Federer don't worry about it you will come back and you'll you'll win one of these eventually yeah and and he would go on to to of course win Wimbledon again later that year um but I mean I think it does show you that whole situation just what a what emotional character he is and he was carrying that around and I mean he I I knew Nigel Sears very well at that point because I was commentating on BT Sport with him and I remember how scary that was um and exchanging messages with him and he was really keen to try to put murray's mind at rest all the way through this um and and enable him to perform but you know the problem is i mean you're doing incredibly well to get there i remember he played milos raonic in the the semi-finals and that was the first time that i that we'd had a new commentary position on the court you know court level and and experience what it was like trying to face raonic's serve I mean, it was just extraordinary, the power.

1:49:41And it looked for a while like Murray was going to lose that match. And it was an incredible achievement from Murray to reach the final. And Djokovic was in a period where he was routinely dropping 6-1 sets at the start of matches on the big three. It was really shocking to witness it. In the semifinals, Djokovic won the first two sets 6-1, 6-2 against Federer before Federer made a match of it. but it was like he didn't just want to beat them he wanted to absolutely destroy them all of them um and he was doing it and and that and murray lost the first set of this one six one he actually did really well i think to make sets two and three close um but that's that's the environment that murray was was trying to perform within very tough yeah i haven't got a lot to add really i i agree i I think this is absolute peak Novak Djokovic, like the best tennis he ever played.

1:50:41Maybe the best tennis I've seen from anyone in terms of a sustained period. He was absolutely in his prime. And given all the circumstances Murray had been dealing with, I remember thinking that this match was going to be completely one-sided. And actually, as David said, for Murray to get those second and third sets as close as he did, I think he did pretty well. But yeah, this was one that never really felt like it was going to go Murray's way, to be honest, unlike 2013 and within the match 2015 as well. Yeah, I remember, David, I can't pinpoint exactly when this was. And obviously I have a policy of never going back to listen to very old podcasts because it's too excruciating, certainly not any pre-MAT.

1:51:32But obviously this year, 2016, was when Stan Wawrinka won the US Open and ended up getting to three quarters of the way to the career slam. And I remember us being asked on a Q &A episode of the show, who is more likely to complete the career slam out of Stan Wawrinka and Andy Murray? And technically Stan Wawrinka was 50 % closer than Andy Murray because he had three of the four and Andy Murray only had two. And obviously that's how they've ended up, barring something pretty wild happening in 2026. And I remember approaching this answer weirdly logically for me. And I said, well, I cannot imagine that Andy Murray won't win an Australian Open.

1:52:26so therefore I'm treating this question as what is more likely Stan Wawrinka winning Wimbledon or Andy Murray winning the French Open and Andy Murray had reached the French Open final that year by the time we were doing this show and you know Stan Wawrinka never did anything at Wimbledon did he much as he well is he employee Richard Krychek one year to give him? He was a Wimbledon, yes. He never did anything. Well, bless him for trying. But Wimbledon was never on the cards of Warrinka. So I said, look, it seems pretty simple to me. Murray at the French or Warrinka at Wimbledon, it's Murray at the French.

1:53:06Andy Murray not winning the Australian Open. It didn't occur to me, but it just felt like, of course he's going to win the Australian Open. He's reached five finals and he's now better than he was. When he reached those five finals, the following year, David, 2017, he comes in as the world number one. Yeah, but he would never play fully fit again at that tournament, as we didn't know that, of course. By the way, side note, Stan Wawrinka at Wimbledon, his return must be so bad. He's played really well at the United Cup this last week. Apparently he hasn't broken serve once in all of these matches that he's been really good in.

1:53:48anyway um but but yeah i mean murray at the the 2017 he's won a lot of tie breaks yes murray at the 2017 australian open yeah he did he came in we were really excited he's world number one um he's he he's surely playing out of his mind i think he ended up having shingles at that uh at that tournament you know ill health and he was served and volleyed off the court by mishazverev um and i remember when that match was was set up i remember thinking he's going to destroy mishazverev because because he just handles serve and volleyers so easily with his return of serve and his lob and all and lefties yeah um and and that you know it was extraordinary to watch him getting kind of ambushed like that um and not having any answers But yeah, like I say, ill health.

1:54:41But as you explained to us the other week, the hip's starting to go. And we just we didn't really know that. And of course, the other context to the Misha Zverev loss and why it felt like an opportunity lost is that Djokovic was out. Djokovic had lost to Denis Istomin. To Denis Istomin. Yeah. I remember. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Matt. Well, I was going to say, obviously, again, as the tournament developed, you ended up with Federer and Nadal in the final. And it wasn't like a massive opening because, OK, I don't think either of them were at their absolute peak. But they were playing well and they played a good final.

1:55:25It wouldn't have been easy for Murray to win that at all. But at the time, Djokovic going out, he'd been the roadblock, as we've discussed. And Murray's the world number one. like this is it this this can be the Australian Open that Murray wins shortly and then Zverev comes along and like it was ridiculous like he kind of a bit like David as you said right at the start he suddenly runs into a player playing the match of their life and he's he's the one having to respond rather than the one being aggressive and yeah Misha Zverev serve and volleyed 119 times and won 65 points at the net which is just like not something that anyone did or does in like the modern game and he absolutely destroyed Murray's second serve you know Murray's second serve always been probably his weakest shot a bit predictable a bit short in the box and Zverev just jumped on it and broke him eight times and and came in off it and yeah he got ambushed he got absolutely ambushed and yeah it definitely if you try and rank the ones that got away I do think the 2017 one maybe sits there maybe even above I don't know maybe above 2016 to be honest I know I know he got to the final in 2016 but with so much going on and as I said going into that final I never thought he was going to win it it felt like a chance in 2017 and yeah he would never never be in that situation again because of the hit.

1:57:01I was working for Eurosport, that tournament in Melbourne. I remember it just being so catastrophic and deflating that Andy Murray had lost that match. That was the first Grand Slam we had gotten to cover, David, as broadcasters with Andy Murray, a Brit, as the world number one. This was, you know, the stuff of dreams for us. And I remember having to do this piece to camera this live piece to camera for the broadcast and feeling like I've have this is too sort of sad and deflating I've got to scrabble for some kind of positive here and I remember throwing out there but Federer and Nadal are still in and they're on opposite sides of the draw and they could meet in the final and obviously that was the one in 1000 and time that that ended up looking really good.

1:57:58And I remember we asked Jury Sport for that clip for my show reel. That's right. We did. Absolutely. I was all over that. Catherine, the unbelievable soothsayer. I felt like I wanted to put a graphic on the clip in the show reel. She said this after the fourth round. The fourth round. Well, you did have a really good sort of comeback from the studio from Rob Curling who said, well, that is a particularly enticing thought. And of course, we ended up... Rob Curling. We ended up as well with the Orr-Williams sister final as well. So it's always been... For anybody that's new to us, we do have a relived episode dedicated to the 2017 Australian Open.

1:58:48So check that out in the archives. That was even longer than this show, I think. yeah we should truck I mean the next few we are reaching the end because while while the previous while many of the previous editions of the Australian Open took up sort of a whole a whole page in the agenda the last five editions don't don't take up much space 2019 is of course the famous tearful pre-tournament press conference from Andy Murray in which he admitted that that tournament could be his last and that he was considering hip resurfacing surgery just to improve his quality of life and reduce day-to-day pain for things like putting his shoes and socks on that was you know I mean it's very well documented it's it's in the Andy Murray resurfacing documentary he he has to leave to compose himself in in the early stages of this press conference and he clearly makes a decision like yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna put it all out here I need a moment but I need to do it and I had I had been out there a few days and I'd seen the Andy Murray Novak Djokovic practice match and I'd I'd raised the red flag after watching that Matt you were on a plane and you landed to the news that you know how it was presented at the time was basically Andy Murray's retiring.

2:00:25It was such a weird feeling because that was the year where we needed to raise enough money to send me to the Australian Open and my flight was a bit later than both of you. And so, yeah, I was on the plane when this news dropped. and it was the first time I'd ever had a credential to cover a Grand Slam tournament. It was the first time going to Australia. I cannot describe how excited I was. And I landed and I wanted to send the messages being like, woohoo, let's go, Australian Open. And you know that thing when you land and suddenly all your texts arrive at once and it's so overwhelming. and all of the texts I had was everyone in a terrible downbeat mood.

2:01:20And you'd already done a podcast, I think, about this press conference. And it was like, oh, my God, like, what have I come into? Everyone's – and I'm down now. Like, I'm sad. Like, you know, because this was so sad. Yeah, it was a very, very weird 24, 48 hours or whatever. Yeah, and then there was the Roberto Bautista-Ragu match, David, and the famous awkward retirement video. yes there were yeah I mean where Caroline Wozniacki asked him to be her coach. The Australian Open does a lot right, but my word, did they jump the gun on that one. I mean, that was classic them wanting to just get in there first.

2:02:13I mean, look, yes, he had sort of said that he's... It's classic Andy Murray as well, sort of telling you he's probably finished and then finding some science and some example in Bob Bryan that he could follow as somebody who could rebuild his hip and make him competitive. But anyway, I mean, they're footnotes really, aren't they? But that was, I mean, if you did get that out and then realised that, what, five years later, he's still there playing in the tournament.

2:02:51Yeah, yeah. I mean, not unbroken. Obviously, he doesn't return for some time. There's a pandemic in there. 2022, he comes back. He's got a new hip at this point. He beats Nikolaus Baselashvili in five sets. That match was on Hisense, whatever it was called at the time. I mean, I remember talking to Simon Briggs on the way out of the stadium from this. Matt, maybe you were there too. And him just saying that was the most brainless tennis performance I've ever seen. Like Basilashvili maybe has a brain outside of the tennis court, but on it, zero brain detected. And you're kind of thinking, okay, you know, Andy Murray making you feel like totally improbable things are possible.

2:03:48Like, yeah, I can get on this train again. And then he loses in straight sets to Taro Daniel on the same court. and it was flat as a pancake that match, Matt. Yeah, I remember not going out there, like taking that decision. I think you went out there for the start of it and I think I was a bit like, oh, I'll come and join. And then as it was going on, I was like, no, I don't need to see that. Not much to say. It was extremely bad. and you're kind of thinking, okay, how much longer can he go on for? Well, 2023, folks. 2023. This is kind of, this is the last sort of big one to discuss, I think, isn't it?

2:04:39Round number one, he draws Matteo Berrettini. And Matt, it was really all about one backhand. The backhand that Matt thinks about every day. yeah on uh on match point for berrettini uh he all he needed to do was get it over the net really and and he didn't and i remember thinking about that backhand when we were still there at five o 'clock i don't know in the morning a few days later thinking this is all matteo berrettini's fault if he'd if he'd just made that backhand we wouldn't be here right now and yet i'm also kind of pleased that he did miss it because what Andy Murray gave everyone in in those first few days like his his career at that point had been reduced to searching for moments like that you know where he could upset a top player maybe or do something extraordinary and defy the odds and come back from two sets down as he did against Kokanakis in in the middle of the night you know those little moments where he got like a glimpse into you know kind of Andy Murray and his old his old self battling hard and you know making you feel things and be invested in his matches and this Australian Open was an absolutely absolutely peak example of that of what the Murray latter years were like like and his level actually against Berrettini was genuinely really good he played really well in that match probably the best match he played in in in the last few years of his career and then obviously kokanakis was just extraordinary what he what he pulled off and then he had to come back and poetically of course it was roberto bautista agoo waiting for him and we'd all seen the match in 2019 and he just thought how on earth is marie gonna make this competitive having barely slept with his having played 10 sets already you know like it just feels impossible task and i remember the first hour or so of that match it feeling like murray was so stiff and so sore and so slow and it was so sad but he did actually loosen up a little bit as the match went on and and did manage to make it competitive but was never in with with a chance really of of winning it and progressing any further like that was that was his limit yeah as you say like looking back now as much as there was the odd time when we well i'll speak for myself we allowed ourselves to believe that andy murray could maybe pull off something that was obviously completely ludicrous like his career was reduced to being about moments and feelings post 2019 well post 2017 really and you know if there's if there's one moment that sums all that up and makes it all worth it for certainly for me and I hope he feels the same it is that Cockanakis win in the middle of the night and the on court interview that feels like it was a fever dream and John Fitzgerald made a joke about the size of his penis and do you all remember that?

2:08:07Was it John Fitzgerald who made the joke or was it Murray who made the joke? Didn't Murray say you've got to ask my wife for something? Yeah John Fitzgerald sort of set him up for it He said something like, you know, Andy Murray could have. Yeah, he says away from it, but he took the bait. He said something like you've got a big heart, you've got a big everything. And then Murray said something like, you'd have to ask my wife. Yeah, it was all so surreal. You know, we don't have to ask your wife because you did accidentally post an x-ray a few years ago, Andy. Yeah. And then there was the car park press conference.

2:08:47And then we then we did a podcast at 7 a.m. And I've got a glass of red wine in my hand. What what was all of that, David? And then I'm sorry. Then I remember waking up and Murray was back at the Australian Open, having to like stretch and warm up like I hadn't got out of bed. I hadn't played. Murray had played and he was back at the Australian Open before me. It was insane. I think it was my first year back after the pandemic because I'd missed the 22 year. And I remember because I was commentating that match and, you know, I was still struggling with long COVID. I mean, I still am, you know, from time to time.

2:09:35But, I mean, I was really struggling more often then. And I remember having quite an outbreak of the symptoms sort of midway through that match. and then coming off it feeling like um i'm dizzy and i and i i'm almost seeing double and but i can't go to bed because we've got to do the podcast oh and andy murray's doing a press conference in a car park at 4 a.m and i went down there and i remember sort of just feeling like i'm i hope i'm not embarrassing myself here because i don't really know what i'm saying but i remember when the press conference was going on i remember think getting angry almost at the hour and having to ask him the question about these late finishes and then he just got angry and then he was off to just rant about it so I in my own I mean I'm sorry I've ended up bigging up my own question there but but but I am kind of it kind of was surreal because I was almost like in a fever dream of my own and and and it felt like so was he and and it ended up being quite good content it was it was good it was look that was a that was a great night for content simon briggs's laptop died i've got some incredible photos from that night just we really managed to capture it i think in with our facial expressions i remember we watched some of it from the which didn't we watch the early stages from the press room matt and it was like oh are we gonna head out there like you know we don't want to you know got to be smart about these things like you with taro daniel like tennis matches can be can be long yeah i was i remember being part of the sort of wave of brits that decided okay this might actually be happening let's go I have a memory of watching like the epic point I feel like there's a point where Murray does some Connors-esque defending of smashes I think I watched I think I watched that in the press room and then was like I'm heading out there yeah yeah that's it and then of course you have 2024 Andy Murray's final Australian Open when he lost to Thomas Martina Chiaveri in straight sets I think that one was on the Kia Arena and it was just really sad and yeah there's not much to say about it he was really flat wasn't I remember the press conference where he was like I can handle not playing well I can handle you know everything that comes with a metal hit but like being flat and not being able to get up for a match like that Like, I can't really handle that.

2:12:27And he was really kind of bemused by it. And that really felt like, OK, this is it now. Except it wasn't, because the following year he was back coaching Novak Djokovic. And for now, for now, sitting on the court, being hugged post-match by his greatest rival, Novak Djokovic, that is where Andy Murray's Australian Open story ends. For now. but watch this space yeah I'd love to see him win it as a coach because that would be just a heck of a story yeah get that Lendl winning Wimbledon as a coach moment exactly definitely be surprised if he's not back as a coach in the future so that was your Andy Murray trauma train we've reached the destination I have quite enjoyed it I very much enjoyed it sad as it is me too and yeah I will be posting a carousel of all of those incredible photos on our on our Instagram to accompany this show which by the time you're listening to this David and Matt will be hopefully landed and with me in Melbourne we are coming to you from the future certainly on the way at the very least from the past Yeah, I really hope Matt and David are on the way to Melbourne by the time you're listening to this, if not in Melbourne.

2:14:00If not, something has gone wrong and wish us luck. But I've really enjoyed this show. So thank you to the David Law Mind Palace. Thank you to Matt for your incredible research. Thank you to David's insomnia that allowed him to watch all sorts of videos in the middle of the night last night and do lots of. extraneous research for this show. Didn't expect Alex Bogdanovich to come up, but I could not be more thrilled that he did. I loved it. And we have several more of these Relived shows coming for you in 2026. We've planned them. We know what's coming. We love our Relived planning meetings. Every year I think, oh, maybe we're out of ideas.

2:14:48Of course we're not out of ideas. we were having to kill our darlings weren't we? Well not kill them but save them for 2027. I was going to say we've already got three in the can for 2027 We've already got a 2027 shortlist, that is how abundant the ideas were for 2026 so it's going to be an excellent year for Tennis Relived and we hope you're looking forward to it Thank you ever so much for being a friend of the Tennis Podcast. We have lots of your show, lots of friend shows coming your way of course we will have an Australian Open review show a couple of days, a few days after the Australian Open, which sounds crazy to be mentioning now because it feels so far away because it's a whole Grand Slam away.

2:15:31But obviously in terms of time, it's not that far away. So you can look forward to that. And you can look forward to 18 daily tennis podcasts between now and then. David's nodding with enthusiasm. That's what we love to see. And tennis podcast meets which yes obviously we're always relying on actually getting getting the interviews but hopefully we'll pull that off have we put the requests in? how did that go? we will no okay right well let's go and address that situation thank you for being friends with the tennis podcast we will speak to you very soon depending on when you're listening to this but I reckon I reckon unless you're listening to this you know decades into the future there's another tennis podcast coming your way very soon.

2:16:18Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you then.