BONUS - July Q&A!

0:10Hello friends and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is a very big pleasure to be with you here tonight. We have missed you, we have missed one another. We have missed David Law who, quote, about 90 seconds ago said, I'm too relaxed, I've had too good a holiday that is the David that you are seeing tonight yeah, and I can't laugh because it hurts my back every time I laugh because I've injured my back so lots going on, but I'm back Artifice is back, we're both back I was with him at one in the morning last night, it was fantastic you're both back and you've both had back injuries yes, I've had a sympathetic back injury with Artifice yes David is rating his holiday 10 out of 10 despite ending it writhing in agony on a golf course correct so that that is how relaxed you find David Law tonight Matt David's got a artifice back injury like I like when I fell ill on the day of the Wimbledon final when Amanda Nissimova lost love and love there's a just all too much there's just something going on in the universe there gosh yeah that feels like a long time ago doesn't it thankfully yes hey imagine how long ago it feels since artifice was tearing it up at ralangarros and when we were on the front row how did he look david i this was sooner than i was expecting to see him back as somebody that, you know, worries about back stress fractures.

1:48Are we concerned? Is he OK? Is it too soon? I think it's too soon to know. But he is back sooner than I thought, too. I mean, if we're honest, 2025 Pablo Carrena Busta maybe isn't the worst draw in the world to sort of, you know, get yourself back into the groove um he i thought he looked very good uh surprisingly good i didn't there was if if i didn't know he'd had a stress fracture to the back i would have thought he was fine um okay but but the thing is that at given the the the last time we saw him playing jamme Munar and Court Susan Longland with 15 ,000 singing La Marcia. This was Court 68 with about 12 people watching.

2:39You know, that kind of very quiet little ripple of applause you get when you just hit an amazing shot. It was that kind of vibe. Matt, you look as distracted by Marta Kostiuk as everybody in the chat seems to be. I'm actually distracted by Lorenzo Mazzetti. He's just saved triple match point. One of them with a backhand down the line. That's very 2025 of him. I know, but that was another match point for Mickelson. But I've also got FOMO because I know that Kostiuk Kasikina's been great. I was double screening, but I've got Meredith Schofield. I'm using my other screen for this. Kostiuk and Kasikina in a deciding set tie break.

3:23I'm very surprised you haven't got eyes on that, but... Yeah, well, it was on this... Yeah, it was on this screen and you know now we're doing this should we try and do a podcast despite the fact that all three of us are distracted by different tennis matches as is everybody in the live chat should we give it a go lucky Paul Lynch getting to be guest editor of this shit show but Paul is thrilled with what he's hearing so far are you with us live Paul he was trying to join hating on us so hopefully Paul, Paul is here he says thanks Catherine, David and Matt so pumped to be back as editor we're going to try and up our games Paul, I promise it's great to have you back as editor you have curated a great show some great questions from you and some great questions that you have selected from barges as well, I love that we get so many questions on great questions on the barge it just constantly renews Nobody runs out of questions.

4:28It's like over a thousand on there, on that thread. Imagine how many there'll be now the US Open has announced its matchmaking shit show.

4:43Just WTF over and over again. What are they doing? We'll cover that on Monday. David, do you have any idea what I'm talking about? I've seen the screenshot. I've seen your Instagram. All they needed to do was fix their draw. Like, yeah. Will it get Gen Z in though? That's what they're thinking, isn't it? It just smacks of boomers trying to figure out what Gen Z want and failing. Anyway, I've promised Paul a better show and I'm going to try and get this thing back on track. So let's start with a first question from Paul. He asks, from inconsistent drug suspensions to problematic tournament scheduling, it appears tennis is in need of a commissioner.

5:34Yes, Paul. Do you agree? And if so, who would you nominate? Paul, my answer is yes. And Mary Carrillo. I cede the floor to my co-hosts. I've got the same answer. It's a bit rubbish, isn't it? I promised Paul a better show. Someone step up. Matt Roberts. well I had Mary as well but I would also nominate Pam Pam and Mary together I feel like you need someone who obviously we're biased because we love Mary and Pam but like has the perspectives that they have right been players understand that side of things understands media understands the importance of how to sell the sport but also like has a deep fundamental like care for the sport and you know thinks about it ethically and morally as well and you know i just can't think of anyone else who who ticks all those boxes like like mary and pam do and they and they would do it in different ways i'm sure they would have slightly different priorities but you would just feel you just feel in such good hands generally aside from kind of the pie in the sky thoughts about who it might be in a dream scenario fun as that is do you think a commissioner a single person ultimately responsible for the sport is a good idea the thing is i feel like there's so much to untangle now that with the sheer number of associations and the stakes that they've all got in the game i don't see how you would do it without it just dragging that person down and like these people that we are mentioning where it's it's this utopian view isn't it stick them stick them in charge and make the important decisions oh okay and then suddenly they just run into all these roadblocks of stuff that's been going on for the past 40 years and um i i was i i'm reading as you as i've talked about before i've been i was reading the the john feinstein book hard courts about tennis in 1990 and it's so fascinating and it's it's it's amazing how similar the problems still are 35 years on and and having enjoyed that book so much and John Feinstein passed away earlier this year, great friend of Mary Carrillo's.

8:14I then decided I was just going to buy his entire works. And I mean, you know, I've probably got about 25, 30 books to get through in total. I bought the first eight that I could sort of, I thought I'm going to start with golf. So I bought all of his golf books. And I've been, while I was on this great holiday, I was reading this book, A Good Walk Spoiled. And the last 40 pages have been talking about, I don't think he was a commissioner. Maybe he was, maybe his title was commissioner. But there's a guy in there and his name escapes me off the top of my head. But This is going back to 1993. So it's 32 years ago.

9:00And he has just taken the dollar at every single turn. And there were events of great affection on the golf tour that one was named the Cosby. and it was a tournament of Pro-Am organised by Bing Crosby in, I don't know, in the 70s, 80s. And it was very popular, very successful. Suddenly they sold it to, I don't know, Cadillac or whoever it was. And every single event that had a name became a corporate blue chip instead. And the original names were disappearing. and he would literally pay for everything or take every payment that was going. And I just thought, well, at what point is that? Are you losing the soul of the sport?

9:59You're creating this enormous amount of money and you will hear people within tennis who will just excuse everything because of money. and the one person who stood up against that at the time was Steve Simon if you remember and we lauded him for it when he stood up against China and then a year and a half later he just caves in and stays in the job despite going back on everything he'd said and I don't know I just find it dispiriting and I don't know really whether somebody that we would care about no matter how good their ideas were whether whether they would just get ground down by it okay not not the optimistic David Law I thought would be returning from Portugal but but I mean I look I agree I unfortunately I agree but but that's why it should be Mary Carrillo right I can't think of many people in the sport that I think wouldn't would maintain integrity and care and would always put the sport's best interests first I mean obviously we're talking utopia here like none of this is ever going to happen but if Mary Carrillo were commissioner of tennis she would leave the sport in a in a better place than than how she found it when she took the post without question even in spite of the the difficulties and obstacles that that she would find in her way.

11:32And that goes for Pam as well. Lots of people in the chat suggesting Hannah would be a great commissioner of tennis. She has declared that her first act would be to ban Cam Norrie. So you can decide yourself if you think that would be a good thing. On what basis? Just because of not fun? Yeah, she doesn't like Cam Norrie as a concept. Paul, would you have Hannah? Let's Paul cast the deciding vote. It's Pam, it's Mary or it's Hannah. Cam Norrie's future hangs in the balance here. While we wait for Paul's verdict on the live chat, let's take Paul's next question. He asks, who is more likely to win a major first out of Jessica Bagula, Amanda Anissimova and then on the men's side Ben Shelton or Holger Runa.

12:32I think Pagula is the safest bet of the four. I don't think Ben Shelton or Holger Runa are winning Grand Slams.

12:46I feel sad to say that if I had to pick one of the two of them I'd probably pick Ben Shelton right now. Now, I should be picking Holger Runa. I think his potential is far greater, but I think he's an absolute disaster. I mean, the latest Holger Runa news is that he tried to slide into Veronica Kudomatova's DMs without checking whether or not she was married, which she is. I mean, that's not giving future Grand Slam champion, is it? So I'll go Ben Shelton and I'll go Jessica Bagula. And if I had to pick between the two of those, I would go Jessica Bagula. Who next? Matt I will go for Ben Shelton as well in that head to head I think for Runa you know when he came through in like 2022 was it Paris 2022 like I thought like his upper level was so good and I just think over time we've seen that there were players with a better upper level and also So he doesn't, particularly at slams, he doesn't seem to be particularly made for those in terms of the best of five, the physical issues he's had, I think the concentration issues within matches.

14:07Whereas Shelton plays his best tennis at the slams. He's shown that over the last couple of years. And I wouldn't pick Shelton to win a slam, but I still think there's a world where, in particular, there's an open US Open that he wins. Like when maybe Al Karaz and Sinner have been going back and forth all year and suddenly one of them's out in New York and there's a bit of an opening. I could see Shelton filling that one year, potentially. and Amanda Nisamova, obviously. Do you actually believe that? I think in the head-to-head with Pagula, I would say Nisamova. I think she's got time on her side.

14:55I think she's a lot younger than Pagula. What I would say is that if she maximises in a way that Pagula has maximised, I think she'll win a slam. I don't necessarily look at Pagula's game and think there's definitely a slam in there. I do look at Anissimova's game and think everything coming together, there's a slam in there. And I think, you know, she's shown that by the way she can, you know, go toe to toe with... But then I look at Bruna's game and think everything coming together, there's a slam in there. But I don't. Everything coming together is such a big thing that I don't think he will ever do.

15:33Sure. I don't think he'll ever pull anything together. Sure. But I mean, Anissimova's been much closer to winning a slam than Runa has. There's less of that pulling together to go, I suppose. I agree. Between Runa and Anisimova, I'm going Anisimova all day. I just don't want to minimise the sort of... No, absolutely. It's a big thing. Unquantifiable... I just think she's getting there. What Greg Ruzedski would call it. Right.

16:06Hashtag analysis. David. I wrote my answers last night before going to bed and I wrote down in answer to this the only one of these that I think wins a slam is in a sumover we're going blonde folks I did wake up slightly thinking I'm doing it again with Jessica Begula you know I'm doing that thing that I always do I'm just dismissing her because I don't think her top level is as high as all the others. And by that I mean Sabalenka, Svantec, Goff even. And one or two others. And then there's some overs on that list. She's got a higher level. But then you think, well, Pegula beat Svantec on the eve of Wimbledon.

16:56She's reached a grand sum final. and I still don't quite know how sort of well it was a big surprise to me when she didn't do better at Wimbledon put it that way uh given how how great she came across in her pre-tournament press comments you know and maybe maybe I just read too many things into those sort of things so I did wake up slightly questioning my own assertion and then I went back again and I thought No, Amanda Inisimov is the only one I think who's going to win a Grand Slam out of those four players. It's quite interesting how Pagula's suddenly got a decent record against Svontek, as you said.

17:36She's won a few of their more recent ones, whereas Inisimov has been able to beat Sabalenka historically and obviously recently. It feels like it's different people in their paths a little bit more. It's a good question. I hadn't really thought about it. that much it's a great question I do with with anisimova for me there is the unknown quantity of getting over that Wimbledon final and I mean that in a very specific way like I think emotionally she is going to be okay she's probably okay already I don't mean in terms of sort of crying herself to sleep all night or or at night or you know not finding a a peace with it I think she's okay but you can be okay and it still hold you back from crossing over that line in future I wish I'd looked up the exact words but Hannah said something about Yannick Sinner going into the Wimbledon final against Carlos Alcaraz which you know it turned out the scar tissue from Paris had been hadn't been too deep or had been surmountable or whatever it certainly didn't hold Yannick's in her back in the Wimbledon final but it still in principle could have done and she had this brilliant Turner phrase about how it can still you know you can genuinely mind and body be feeling and saying internally I'm okay I'm over it I've I've I've metabolized it you know I've made sense of it it's okay but it's just in your in your cells somehow and I think that is still a big unknown quantity with Amanda Anisimova which I don't know I honestly don't know which way it will go but I do know only one other person has lost a Grand Slam final love and love it's no joke and it'll be in there somewhere in her tennis DNA now that is part of her tennis DNA and I don't think we should kind of minimise that as much as I don't want it to be a chain around her neck for her whole career.

19:56It's in there. So we'll see. But I want Matt to go blonde so I want the answer to be Amanda Onisimova desperately. I've got the dye. Is it coming with you to New York? Yes, to every slam now. Yes. It's the only thing that's already packed. I've got a suitcase just with that in. I liked the comment that came up there that Vicky put up of Biscuits in terms of Biscuits' name on the barge, on YouTube for anyone who isn't following the live stream. We love Biscuits. About sort of how Pagula maybe is, like she's not going to become a different player now like we know who Pagula is I think the others all still have that time to maybe try and evolve I'm just not sure that Runa will I'm not sure that Shelton necessarily has the has the game to to to go with just how high like Alcaraz and Sinha can take it and that is that is the bar that you have to get over and look maybe anissa mova doesn't have the game either to get over the sviontek bar you know like there's obviously a long way to go but i just think that you know the changes to her team her back on tour i think we're just i do think we're scratching the surface in terms of anissa mova in terms of being being a contender really and i just don't i don't feel like you can say that quite about the others That's why she just stands out to me a little bit more.

21:43That's a great point. And Hannah's pointed out in the chat that Wimbledon final defeat could end up being an asset, a huge asset for Anasimova. She says literally the worst thing that can happen has already happened to her on a tennis court and kind of off a tennis court as well. She's been through the worst in both areas of her life. So no matter what's happening, when you step out onto a court from now on, like the worst has already happened. You're playing with house money. And I hope that is how it ends up being metabolized in her body. I really, really do. It's just until we kind of see her going forward, we don't really know.

22:26Great question though. Thank you for that, Paul. I haven't had a, unless I missed it on the chat, still yet to get a verdict from Paul on the future of Cam Norrie. Let us know. Next question selected by Paul is from Cat Duffy and Marion on the Barge, who both asked very similar questions, which is, who will be the first to win a career grand slam out of Sabalenka, Shontek, Alcaraz and Sinner? And sub-question, do you think any of the four of them won't win a career slam? Paul is in, by the way, to say keep cam. Sorry, Hannah, you are not the commissioner of tennis. So we have Sabalenka, who is a Wimbledon and a French Open away from a career slam.

23:12We have Shvantec, who, of course, is just an Australian Open away from a career slam. We have Alcaraz, who is also just an Australian Open away. And we have Sinner, who is a French Open away. So Shvantec and Alcaraz will be the first to have a go, first to put their coins into the penny falls. if you like, in January of next year. Who's going to do it first and will any of them not do it? Is this just a race where all four of them will get over the finish line and it's a question of which order? Or do we think some might fall before the finish line? David, I'm coming to you. I think they'll all do it.

23:56And I think it'll be a dead heat between Alcaraz and Sviante. You think they're both winning Australia next year? David is so back yeah do we give it to Svante because she plays the final first ooh yeah I think you have to there have to be some benefits of the women always I was going to say I was going to say that would be harsh and then I thought actually about bloody time that just being a woman gets you somewhere god that would be a fun slam if we had two of them completing the career slam I mean PS this is generally extremely fun that we have oh it's great i know sabalink is two away um but you know i think general consensus is she will get you know at some point pretty soon she'll be one away and this is just a really fun place to be with them all on this quest for the career slam and like who who gets the next go to complete it i love it wouldn't it be wild if they all did it Think of the legends of the sport that have not done the career slam.

25:05You know, there's a long list of players who are like all-time greats who didn't manage to do it. If we get all of these four in this era doing it, to me it seems a long shot that they all do it. But then I suppose we had Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Serena and Sharapova all doing it in the same era. I just think, you know, four of those were literally the four all-time greats in my eyes. I'm not sure Sabalenka will. And it's fascinating how Wimbledon has changed things and like how things can change so quickly. because I probably, going into Wimbledon, I would have said, well, probably Sabalenka's more likely to do it than Svantec in her career.

25:58Svantec getting Wimbledon is such a massive, massive step to the career slam. It feels bigger than just getting one more. It feels like she's won her least likely one, I think. um sabalenka i think she's just not got a great like conversion rate in terms of when she gets deep into majors going on to actually win it and she's keep going to keep getting there but just like we've seen the stress that she feels in these big matches i could imagine just like the stress of trying to complete a career slam for example would be would be a lot and i just think the French Open for her feels tough. I know she beat Svantec there this year, but that was not Svantec at her best.

26:52If Svantec's back to her best over the next few years, that was her window. You said it prior to this French Open, this is her time. Felt like it. And even though that can still have been true, even though she didn't end up winning it, right? That was her time to win it and she didn't take it. Now, other windows can open up but it's hard to imagine that there will it's not a question of it doesn't feel like Alcaraz in Australia say where it's hard to imagine a scenario unless he's injured where we're coming into an Australian Open and he's not one of the favourites one of the two favourites or if not the favourite it doesn't quite feel that way with Savalinkan and the French Open somehow and also she's got obviously she's the only one with two slams still to win but they're two slams on two different surfaces and that feels that feels significant and she's older

27:52will Sabalenka do it I think probably if I had to say yes but it's not a given I agree And I think, I think I would go for... The thing is, if Alcaraz doesn't win Australia, I think Sinner will win the French Open. I mean, he might anyway, but I think Sinner's probably going to win the French Open next year and do the career slam there. He's so thorough. Yeah. I think if it weren't for the fact that Alcraz is having his go first, I would be going for Sinner in the race. But Alcraz has got this shot to get it done first. He's got a long way to go in Australia, you know, in terms of what he's never been to the semis there.

28:54Is that right? He's had a couple of quarter final exits. I feel like Alcraz is a guy who I've just assumed is going to do the career slam. And that is crazy. But there's never really been a moment where I've thought he won't do it. If Sinner can assert hard-court dominance, which he has generally over the last couple of years, on tour, at the slams, if Sinner wins the next couple of Australian Opens, suddenly becomes like a thing. Can Alcarez do the career slap? Yeah. And it's never... Suddenly it really is Djokovic. It's never been a thing. I think he'll do it. I do think Alcarez will do it. But it's interesting how, again, like how the narrative can just change.

29:45For what it's worth, I think I'd go to Fiontech, like David, that thinks she might come out and win the Australian Open. she's got the first chance so that's a logically great bet but then you know again she's not been to an Australian Open final I do think the you know pretty quick conditions there sometimes can work against her it's pretty cool how she's changed her story around in the last incredible few weeks if you think of a year ago when when she was so obsessed at the Olympics and things didn't go her way there. And then over the spring of this year, the way she just looked lost, lost away completely and was just, seemed so doubtful.

30:41Yeah, I mean, Vicky's just pointed out on the chat, you know, imagine what the answers to this question would have been six months ago. Yeah. I don't think any of us would have been picking Svantec would be. well because Wimbledon would have been such a well exactly yeah and actually Sinner like the way like go back not that long ago and Sinner had you know hard court slams and look at look at what he's done this summer he could have you know he's been the closest to winning that fourth than any of them in terms of you know he had literally a triple match point at the French Open you know and I wouldn't have I would have just always thought Alcras because Because I always think Alcrap.

31:26Yeah, it does put a stop on you there and realise how powerful recency bias is. But it also makes you realise, how silly is all this going to sound in another six months' time when, I don't know, someone else is going to come along and maybe Joe Fonseca will win the French Open, David. Don't be ridiculous. Imagine if Goff comes out and wins Australia then we suddenly got you know another player who's trying to do it a fun situation yeah that's plausible yeah although she does seem to have quite a Wimbledon right feed it all into my veins it's just fantastic yeah Gough seems even if Gough had an Australian Open right now Wimbledon feels a problem for it doesn't feel only a matter of time for Goff and I know we would have said the same about Svantec with Wimbledon until this year but I do feel like technically there's a bigger hurdle there to overcome for Coco Goff yes like Stan Wawrinka do you remember one year Stan Wawrinka employed a didn't he employ Richard Krojcik to be his coach just for Wimbledon and he lost in like the second round he gave it a whirl anyway next question and I love this this is from Paul himself and it is almost entirely directed at you David because we didn't get your thoughts on this on Monday's pod Paul asks while Arena Sabalenka's fans will always lament her 70 unforced errors in the French Open final versus Coco Gauff is Yannick Sinner's rehiring of Umberto Ferrara as trainer the single biggest unforced error of 2025 the floor is yours no no i i think look i think it's a strange call in you know when i think of the fact that all that stuff happened and the spray and the suspension and and everything else that that went on i i and then and then even firing him and then bringing him back it is a strange call but i i don't think yannick sinner cares i just don't think he cares at all what i mean in his his eyes why should he care he he doesn't think he's done anything wrong and he thinks it's all a big mistake and a kind of that people should be sensible about it in his eyes if he didn't care why would he fired fired them in the first place i think he i mean it's interesting listening to what matt futterman said about that the other day and i mean i think it's it's hard when you're in the storm he was in the eye of the storm in new york um he was facing this whole situation i i think that pr wise i mean it was interesting matt seeing the other way matt futterman suggesting that actually you make yourself look a little bit as though you've done something wrong if you fire the people that have got you in trouble when actually he's saying I didn't do anything wrong you know I think it's unfair that I'm getting suspended I think some people would say from a PR perspective oh you know you need to get out ahead of this and and distance yourself from these two people and acknowledge their wrongdoing but it's not your wrongdoing you know it's it's them who messed up um so and and his words in the press conference with we all attended was i need some clean air around me um and so i think that that was his attempt to establish a detachment and a new beginning but i i genuinely don't think he i think he's at peace totally at peace with with his own actions and he thinks well i'm going to hire whoever the hell i think is going to do the best job for me and that's what he's done i i'm actually more interested in why he's sat the others the more recently oh i'm still interested in that i'd love to know the real story behind that

35:55yeah it is it's interesting now in light of this new knowledge going back to that timeline which we found curious at the time the fact that he waited until it was public before because there was obviously that quite long period of him knowing about this case hanging over him and the provisional suspension that he managed to get um temporarily lifted and obviously we found out about just before the US Open it was the day after he won Cincinnati wasn't it that was when it became public and he knew it was going to be becoming public that day but it had been months behind the scenes of him knowing all of the details of his this case you know in his own words we knew straight away what the source of the contamination was there was no investigation process they were like huh must have been must have been that spray if it was that obvious why are you using the spray um but it is interesting that he didn't fire them straight away he fired them he didn't fire them once he knew he fired them once we knew yeah which definitely supports the theory, your theory that he was not pressured into firing them somebody advised him to make it look a certain way or it does look a certain way, one of your options is this and I think he chose that one.

37:28Do we think Naldi is annoyed that Ferrara's got his job back and he's still lying there under the bus, flailing around like me at the start of this podcast? I mean, I think I'm right in saying that Ferrara has basically said it was Naldi's fault, you know, in terms of... I think Ferrara knew that... He knew what the substance was and he knew that it shouldn't be going anywhere near Sinner, but he gave it to Naldi to use. Yeah, Ferrar is a pharmacist, isn't he? A trained pharmacist, I think. Right. He gave it to Naldi to use. And Naldi obviously ended up giving Sinner the massage. But I still find it weird that he knowingly had a substance that was on the banned list.

38:22or, you know, contains a substance on the ban list, you know. And, you know, he's made a... I think that's a massive mistake. I don't think Ferrara should have that on him if he's around Yannick Sinner, you know. But I suppose from Sinner's point of view, does he think that kind of massive mistake, you know, does it make it less likely to happen again? You know, like, I suppose you're always... You're always risking it to some degree in terms of surrounding yourself with other people. does the fact that he's made that mistake, Sinner trusts him, he believes him, he thinks, well, it's even less likely to happen now, and he is the best guy for me, and as David said, I don't think Sinner cares about what anyone else thinks.

39:05He's brought him back. I still find it odd that he would go back, but I'm trying to sort of work it through, and given what Matt Futterman said, which I found really interesting on Monday's pod, you know like just trying to think of the logic behind it and i suppose i can see some but yeah it was it was shocking to me yeah i think maybe i'm i'm maybe my the picture i have in my head of the the fitness trainer marketplace is wrong like my initial in my instincts are the same as yours Matt of like okay like he was really good and you and you liked him and that's great and it was a real shame that you had to fire him but like there must be really a lot of excellent fitness trainers that you also like and could trust out there like does it have to be him but maybe there aren't maybe there aren't as many as as I sort of just lazily assume that there are and and people do like top players often do stay with their you know fitness trainer for like a long time it is it's a it's a thing that changes a bit less regularly than coaches i suppose so maybe they do feel this this sort of fit and i think knowing your body someone that knows your body is is a big big thing david's got a physio that he his very loyalty.

40:37Yep. Knows my body. Nursing him back to health. At the top level. Yep. We're very grateful that this podcast might not be happening if it weren't for what's his name David? Should we give him a shout out? Paul Dillon. Paul. He's actually known and this is a real shout out his company name is The Ultimate Physio. um she's you know they're always called something like that aren't they yeah physio for life i mean frankly the podcast very nearly didn't happen anyway just because i messed it up at the start you're making up for it with punchy predictions david uh next question comes from Laura Aitken.

41:27Laura asks, I've heard you all say that you no longer have that fandom since becoming members of the tennis media, yet all three of you still have particular players that you follow and enjoy. That sounds like being a fan to me. So how would you define being a fan? And what's the difference in your fandom now versus before you began your careers in tennis media? I saw Matt earlier. we took Billie Jean for a little walk on Richmond Green, walked past the Ted Lasso shop. Had some tapas. And we had some tapas, lovely afternoon. Billie Jean hid under a bench in order to send the message, no more ball.

42:16And we were talking about the questions for tonight's show and you mentioned this one, Matt, as one that you were particularly interested in. So go ahead. Yeah, I think it is a good question because it is something that I really think about because I, you know, personally, I went from fan to working in the sport, you know, literally with a sort of click of the fingers. You know, there was no sort of period in between. I had to sort of, I suppose, learn how to try and navigate that invisible barrier that there is. And I think what I would say is that we have not lost our fandom totally. There are big parts of what we do that being a fan is absolutely fundamental for why we're able to do it.

43:15you know in terms of like if i didn't love tennis i would not be doing a podcast about it at three o 'clock in the morning and you know getting getting so out of whack with your sleep cycle and your routine and abandoning all other aspects of your life for this you know for this thing like we do that because we you know we bloody love it like we are fans of the sport so we haven't we haven't lost it in that respect but I do think there are it's not a sort of binary you're a fan or you're not you know I think you've got to have some of that fandom in you I think I do you see a lot of people in the press room who I think you know like they're they're burnt out by it they have lost their fandom they're no longer enjoying it you know there's a lot and I understand it I get it but I think it's a shame and I really don't want to ever lose that.