BONUS - November Q&A!

0:10Hello friends and welcome to the tennis podcast and our November live Q &A show a little earlier than usual in order to make sure that we're done in time to free you up and ourselves up to watch. hopefully Annex in a absolutely tonking Alexander Zverev David, that's the plan Yeah I mean there's no notes really there that's the general plan but yeah it's we're actually coming off the back of a fantastic day in Turin yesterday we have been buzzing really haven't we about what it was like yesterday which you know I don't always feel like at this tournament but that was a proper day of tennis yesterday.

1:00No, not at all. I mean, Alcaraz-Fritz was an incredible match but yeah, in the words of Vicky in the chat a few minutes ago, I feel like we need... It's odd having a Q &A when I feel like we need to chat about Muzzetti immediately. Yeah, Lorenzo Muzzetti and his ongoing Shakespearean nightmare, Matt, is just so, so much at the front of my mind. I can't believe we have a tennis schedule today with Lorenzo Mazzetti not on it. I don't know what to do with myself, quite frankly. I'm just counting down to the next time the remains of Lorenzo Mazzetti take to the court. He's probably thinking the same, to be honest.

1:44He probably doesn't know what it's like to have a day off at the moment. But yeah, what scenes? It sort of made the whole thing worthwhile, really, didn't it? The whole nightmare that he's lived since Wimbledon trying to get to Turin to have that moment in Turin was everything. And yeah, it was extraordinary. He started beating his chest and he leapt over the advertising hoarding and went full Mondo DePlantis and kissed his girlfriend immediately. It was like just... It was incredible. It was extraordinary how he found this energy in this tennis. Yeah, it was really something. Yeah. And look, that's probably...

2:31That will probably be the peak of it, right? He's got to face Alcaraz now. He does have the opportunity to seal Yannick Sinner's year-end number one and the continuation of his own nightmare all in one match. But a match in which Carlos Alcaraz will be the heavy favourite. But it will all have been worth it, even if it was just about yesterday. It will all have been worth it, I think, I hope. I think so. Yeah, I think so. So that's just your little taster of the Mazzetti chat, of which there will be more in our next main feed podcast coming on Friday. Today's show is, of course, a Q &A show, guest edited by two of our absolute faves, a father-daughter duo, no less.

3:24It is Dave and Rose Cortine. We love Dave and Rose. Yeah, absolutely. Welcome, Dave and Rose. Thanks for coming back. Welcome, Dave and Rose. I don't know if they're here with us live tonight. I do know that Rose is in her first year of university this year. And so she and Dave had a FaceTime, Matt, is that right, to do some editing and decide upon their questions, which is a very wholesome scene to imagine. That's right, yes. Their first choice is a curry together when they're in person to talk through potential questions, but they couldn't be physically together this weekend, so they had a FaceTime and went on the bulge, looked at all the questions, came up with their own.

4:18It's just wholesome stuff, isn't it? It's lovely, lovely stuff, yeah. Dave, of course, is the organiser of the tournament in Wrexham, which we went to a couple of weeks ago and did a live show. Dave was there, Rose were there. They both helped out tremendously with the evening. And yeah, they're two of our absolute faves. And they're returning guest editors tonight. And they've, well, they've chosen some belting questions and it's on us to give some belting answers. So without further ado, let's start with a question selected by Dave and Rose from Michelle B. A very prescient question. Michelle asks, how coordinated do you think the recent comments by players about scheduling and payment issues have been, including your interview with Jack Draper?

5:12She's done a lovely emoji in there as well. Does the effort that led to the group letter to the slams and the meetings at Roland Garros and Wimbledon explain the public statements that normally more reserved players have made. How much influence do you believe these players' efforts can have? Well, look, I think we can share, given this is a French show, I think we can share a bit of background we have from Jack on this, which is to say that it's not a coordinated effort at all. It's obviously not a coincidence that all of these players are speaking up at the same time because they're all experiencing the same thing.

5:55And I think a breaking point has been reached. But this isn't a situation where they've all had a roundtable and decided, OK, you do this. You do an interview with The Guardian. You do an interview with The Tennis Podcast. You put an iPhone note statement out on your Instagram or whatever. it's not been coordinated like that David it would be fair to say and you could say that's the issue that it just isn't nearly coordinated enough it's the lack of the coherent players voice and union really that's costing them and ultimately the sport I think. Yeah certainly in the case of Jack Draper I definitely believe that to be the case that he he wasn't put up to this and um he and but but at the same time i think you know he i think i do think one one example can lead to another and that's sort of what he's hoping he's hoping to sort of lead by example by making himself available in a long format conversation like the one he had with us and i hope that others are prepared to do the same and more to the point eventually get in front of the atp and make a tangible change i i don't know about sinner um unless you have any other knowledge i i the the thing is he specifically spoke about the prize money and the welfare and the grand slams it's the larry scott involvement isn't it david that makes you think that this that sinner speaking to the guardian as he did last week or it certainly came out last week that makes you think that his speaking out might be part of something more coordinated.

7:47Perhaps you should explain a bit who Larry Scott is and why his involvement makes you think that. Yeah. Well, Larry Scott was the chief operating officer at the ATP when I joined the organisation in 1998. and he is a very accomplished mover in those circles. And I like him. I've always liked him. He is very smooth and, you know, you'd never catch him off guard. And I used to think, I wonder whether there's much substance to him and Mark Miles, who was his boss at the time at the ATP. Well, Larry, I think, has proved that there is a lot of substance to him over the years. And he joined the WTA as their CEO not too long after that.

8:38And he was in position working specifically with Venus Williams and Billie Jean King in the effort to push Wimbledon to finally agree to equal prize money. And, you know, he explained that on the Friends of the Tennis Podcast Tennis Relived show that we did a couple of years ago, the journey to equal prize money. If you go and listen to that, you'll listen to an interview with Larry that I did on that day. And he remembered me enough from our ATP days to agree to that interview. And he was very clear that they got to a point where all the diplomacy and all the conversations, all the politics weren't getting there quickly enough, maybe weren't going to get there at all.

9:22And when Venus Williams did her incredible speech in the committee room in front of the committee at Wimbledon, where she asked all the people there to close their eyes and tell her that she wasn't worthy of equal prize money um when that didn't do the job he then said to to to to them right it's time to start putting the pressure on now and that means speaking out publicly often he got the prime minister of great britain involved at the time tony blair um and got him to speak out op-ed in the times wasn't there yeah there was an op-ed by venus an incredible letter by venus williams and he is the sort of frankly mover in those circles that i think can make differences could you know he can he can make things happen and and i think that players he's representing the top 10 players on both tours right now not exactly sure how that's working what's in it for him david well i mean in what capacity is are they sort of paying him a my guess is my i mean listen i'm i there is i have asked one or two questions on this subject uh with colleagues and nobody seems to really know they're not being up front to put it that way about exactly what this organization is because obviously you've got the atp with its player council then you've got the Professional Tennis Players Association that Novak Djokovic started off, which has currently got legal action on going against the Grand Slams.

10:59That's another separate organisation. And that legal action seems to be standing in the way, from what we can gather from that Guardian article, seems to be standing in the way or certainly being used as an excuse for lack of movement on things that other players are pushing for. They're saying, well, we can't listen, Yannick, to what you and the other top 10 players are asking for. from the slams because we've got this ptpa lawsuit going on that we need to deal with first and it's like that's it so then you've got the top 10 players on either tour who are being represented by by larry scott and a small group there which have written letters to the grand slams twice now wanting answers and movement as to why they are not getting a greater percentage share of the of the of the revenue generated by the grand slams and welfare issues um and they haven't really got got what they wanted um so yeah i i do wonder whether yannick was put up to that i i don't know that for sure at all but but that's my suspicion um but in terms of where that's being funded i wouldn't mind a guess that larry would say look if i deliver i get a percentage of what you get or something like that i mean i don't think he's short of of money i mean he he after the atp and the wca jobs he he worked in american college basketball heading up that so i don't think he's struggling or anything but you know he is it possible david excuse the terribly naive question is it possible that he is the unicorn figure of somebody that genuinely has tennis's best interests at heart and is working in that interest because that's what's missing here somebody with power that also is ultimately motivated by what's best for the sport i do think he cares i don't i don't i mean i don't think i'm not i'm not sure he's about to go and do it for free put it that way but but but but i do think he cares i mean the fact that when he worked for the tours i think it i think he did get a an affiliation with them and i think it pisses him off really that the players aren't and and having worked in the other american sports i think that he thinks well hold on this is how it should work because this is how it works everywhere i do remember many years ago going back to say 2006 the the atp was taken over by a guy called etienne de villius he became the new ceo i think after mark miles who was there when i was there So he had a long time in the job.

13:39And Etienne came in from Disney and he really was evangelical and sort of ambitious, but in a kind of naive type way. Sort of it was idealistic. He came in and he just wanted to make a difference. He didn't need the money. He just wanted to come in. I mean, not say he wasn't getting paid, but he didn't need the money. right and he came in and he just thought this needs changing this needs changing this needs changing and he came in and he just tried to do those things and then he got hit with massive lawsuits immediately and that was to get rid of he wanted to get rid of the masters 1000 status or the super niners it was known status of monte carlo and hamburg and there was this massive outcry about the monte carlo move and then hamburg hit hit the atp with a lawsuit and so this thing just went nuclear and you know that's what tends to happen you somebody comes in with big ideas and you just run into a brick wall a lot of people on the chat sort of saying why not the players council you know why and this was something we we we talked about with jack before the the interview and I think look fundamentally the answer is like the current levers and mechanisms of which the players council is one are widely perceived now just not to be not to to work to not be fit for purpose and there is this fundamental opposition at the heart of the ATP which is that it it was established to represent both players and tournaments.

15:24It is the union that represents the players, but it also represents the tournaments and those things are increasingly in opposition.

15:37So yeah, I think that's probably the blanket answer about the player council. It requires a lot of time and energy, I'm not saying it's not a totally unworthwhile thing to do, but I do understand why there's a sort of, why is that a worthy thing to invest my valuable time in when I know it when to achieve anything kind of an attitude. Just on the last aspect of the question, David, how much influence do you believe these players' his efforts can have. I mean, Matt, feel free to weigh in as well. I just feel like it needs to be more and it needs to be one after another. And I do think it needs to be coordinated, to be quite honest with you.

16:30I mean, I think I really laud Jack's attempt here. And, you know, I'm glad that he came to us. I think we were able to give him a good platform to say what he wanted to say. but but i just feel like you know you need you need somebody pushing them and and setting up things and them all to do it um at once and make a massive stink i don't think that's happening in the way that it would need to i i think people should be more boycott trigger happy that's my that's my take here I think we're too boycott shy in this sport you know Jack kept on making the point that the biggest asset this sport has is its players and take away the players you haven't got anything wouldn't take I'm not saying it's something to do lightly but nothing would make action happen more quickly or make people wake up more quickly than a boycott.

17:42And I think this on all sorts of things. I mean, I could not boycott quickly enough if on, you know, equal prize money issues and all the rest of it. Give me an opportunity. I'm all, you know, organise a march. I'll be there. But that's the problem. There is no union unless there is a union and you have it at the end. There have been NBA lockouts and all sorts of things where they have just withdrawn their labour and their product. and their TV platform. I mean, if the top 10 boycotts one event, and I think everybody would, I think action would happen pretty quickly, but I mean, it's just never going to happen, is it?

18:24And I think Djokovic did say it quite well when he spoke recently on it and said, like, as a player, you either have to be very prepared to put in the work and that means constantly you know constantly talking about it even when you're in competition mode it means constantly trying to get other players interested in it and talking about it or you've kind of got to sort of sacrifice something yourself and that and that suppose in the short term would be sort of what uh you know what a boycott would look like um i also think the other little point that jack hinted at in the uh interview that didn't sort of say out loud um is that you know he i i think we'd all been a little bit resigned to well the masters 1000s can't change you know they're 12 days 30 year contract he's clearly spoken to someone who has seen that contract and he he is under the belief that there is some room for maneuver within that contract when we don't quite know and how we don't quite know but i think he's he's sort of seen an opportunity to to sort of pounce on there and think actually maybe something can be done and i think that was a big reason why he did want to speak out because he did genuinely see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel if enough people do speak out about it but i completely agree it as as grateful as i was for jack for approaching us i i do think for genuine and change it does need to be so much more coordinated.

20:06It's so hard to be optimistic about any kind of change, no matter how obvious and sensible it seems. When you've just done a show about Bud Collins and you've got extracts from his book from 1989 about what's wrong with the sport and what could so easily and sensibly make it better, that could have been written today. It just makes it so difficult to be optimistic about anything changing, really. And it's, you know, ultimately, this is a... It's a labour class that is unrepresented in terms of an effective union that is being exploited in their view. And in those circumstances in the working world, what would happen is you'd try and unionise and ultimately the biggest lever you can pull is to strike.

21:11It's awkward to put it in those terms because we're talking about multimillionaires. But the principles are the same. And striking, it's extreme, but it is the most effective lever to pull. But yeah, you've got to put your money where your mouth is and be prepared to accept the costs and the consequences of that. That's 20 minutes on the first question. So buckle up, folks. Will Yannick Sinner have tonked Alexander Zverev by the time we finish this show? It's a race. It's like Andy Murray versus Simon Briggs' laptop battery.

21:59Who won that race, actually, Matt? Andy Murray won that race. Simon Briggs' laptop died in the fifth set. At 4.15am or something. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was also... I can't remember whether I'm mixing up my Simon Briggs laptop stories, but there was also a tournament where... I think it was that tournament where like his H wasn't working or something on his keyboard. And he was having to find some very inventive ways to type sentences without quite a key letter of the alphabet. The umbrella story is Simon Briggs, tennis correspondent for the Daily Telegraph, really should have a better laptop.

22:41Yes, he was having to not use the letter H. Or was it even K with Kokinakis? I can't quite remember, but it was something disastrous for poor Simon. Hoping to avoid Mikhail Kokushkin matches. OK, next question. This is a heck of a question. We've got to try and not spend 20 minutes on this, or I feel like we easily could. This one's from Liz C. Is it better to have a high floor and a low ceiling or a low floor and a high ceiling? my umbrella answer to this Liz is it depends what kind of career you want to have and therefore what kind of person you are I imagine if you asked Alex de Manor right now he would sacrifice a bit of his floor for a bit of extra ceiling I don't know if everybody's seen the quotes that came out from him last night Obviously, everybody was viewing that match through a Mazzetti lens, and rightly so.

23:50But by all accounts, Alex de Minholl was absolutely devastated by that defeat. And it's having a bit of an existential crisis, generally, about his record against fellow top 10 players. And basically, his ceiling at the moment is just sort of a couple of millimetres too low, isn't it? like he always delivers he always brings it he just is hitting up against that ceiling um i don't know i i think i i would want to have a high floor low ceiling career because that sounds that sounds fun i'll i'll i'll take the cost of the lows for the the highs of the highs but i think that's just my personality um I don't know Matt what do you think it was funny because like if I applied this question to so many aspects of my life I would take the high floor low ceiling I think that's kind of to some extent always been the sort of approach that we've had with the podcast that we're not chasing that that one big interview or that one mega episode that that gets us you know a million downloads or something you know that's that but we are looking for consistency and always showing up and all of these sorts of things I think are very very important I apply a lot of those in my in my daily life and I you know I hope that our ceiling can be high um but i but i'm really about the high floor you know and like if i i don't want to do something badly i never want to do something bad i always want to do it well even if it's not like a hundred percent however if i if i think of a tennis career i am more drawn to the high ceiling low floor careers you know the the one slam wonders you know i i think i think it gets a bit different when you sort of apply it to a tennis career and maybe that's totally from the outside maybe if i were a tennis player i would feel differently um but that that's kind of how i view it from the outside like i if i'm assessing people's careers i'm sort of taking a marion chillish over a tim hemman or i'm taking an osteopenko over a tim hemman you know those one slams i'm placing so much value on those osteopenko is probably the best example isn't she sort of if the floor ceiling gap i think so you're challenging me to want to be an Ostopenko

26:38well are you I do want to be yeah I would I would in sports I think that you make a very good point about I think the thing with um with podcasts is you just can't get away with it you can't get away with winning big ones and actually having much to show for it whereas you can in this you can you can live off one grand slam for the rest of your life in some ways and maybe not financially but i mean maybe you can if you if you become famous enough but i mean that just the thought of knowing for the rest of your life that you're a grand slam champion yeah what i would say is i think in the high floor low ceiling scenario it would need to be grand slam champion for me or Olympic gold I won't accept I feel like I always do this on friends shows I drag Greg Rzatzky but like I'm not taking Greg's career I'm not taking a Grand Slam final no do you know what I mean would you take I'd take Rios's I would take would you take take Greggs over Dimonors

27:58well Dimonors hasn't played out yet okay Perez probably not no probably not I probably wouldn't take Greggs over Dimonors no okay no but I would take would you take Del Potros oh over knowing even though he's had all those injuries. Yeah. Yeah. I would take Del Potros. Yeah. It's an interesting sort of this very, it takes you very existential this question because I think tennis players have to reconcile themselves with failure. Most tennis players, every tennis player, even Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcoraz lose a lot. Like lose, okay, those two, it's not quite most weeks that they play, but it's still quite a lot of weeks that they play.

29:04Like they end up ending the tournament losing. Most tennis players, it's every week. Poor old Lorenzo Mazzetti. it's been every week for the last however frigging long like whereas sort of I'm the same as you Matt like I don't I have a I have a real sort of deep seated you know I'm working on it but a real deep seated fear of failure still and fear of doing things wrong that I actually don't think tennis players have in the same way because you just can't um so i think tennis players is probably i think if i were a tennis player i would be better equipped to deal with the lows just because of you know the the exposure therapy that you that you go through um but yeah we're all taking Yelena Rostepenko's career over Alex de Menor's.

30:04Is that what we're saying? Even you, Matt, our resident Alex de Menor guy. Yeah, I won a French Open.

30:18Yeah. Okay, next question. I was just going to say that that does speak to the immense power of the Grand Slams. Right? Would you take an Olympic gold? Yes, I think I would. Would you take Bencic's career over Dominors? Yes, I think I would. I think I would. Obviously, I would. But I would definitely take... And I know we had this conversation before, but I would definitely take one major over one Olympic gold, personally. Oh, so would I. So would I. they're just they're just everything Olympic gold Catherine can you hear what you're saying it depends what the rest of the career was like if it's Elena Dementieva's career that's different to

31:22Monica Puig's it's really hard to do this without totally throwing someone under the bus. But they can, any time they want, they can just sort of look in their drawer and it's there, their gold medal. Catherine. I think, I just think of something about slams where like, Just put it on. Slams are, when you're a tennis player, when you're a tennis player, slams are what you are striving for. You know? That is true. You've built your whole life around trying to win one of those things. And yes, an Olympic gold is magical, but it's not quite that, I don't think, for most tennis players. It's not what you set out for.

32:10Like, I personally have a... I get very romantic about the Olympics. And yes, David, I thought about having one in my draw, except it wouldn't be in my draw, David. I would be wearing it about my person at all times. You'd have it on for every life, yeah. It's the safest way to keep track of it. You'd be like René Stubbs, you'd have it in your bio.

32:37Would I be a person that had OLY in caps in my bio? I actually like to think I wouldn't be. I would wear it all the time, but I don't think, I hope I wouldn't be that person. If you were, you'd be like Leander Pays, who gets away with it. Yeah, because I'd be so... Because he's so earnest about it. It would be my whole personality. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my earnestness about the Olympics. The big one is if you went up to Monica Puig or Nicolas Massoud and said, you can either have the gold medal you've got right now or a Grand Slam. Which one do you want? They're the ones to ask. Number one, I don't think you get an honest answer.

33:26yeah I don't think so I think I think Zverev would swap his gold medal for a slam yeah I'm sure he would that's not happening is it

33:40but Matt is right that Olympic gold is not what a young kid growing up giving everything to try and turn pro and achieve their dreams in tennis, that's not the thing that's at the end of the tunnel, is it? No, I don't think so. Okay, that's another 15 minutes on question two. That's a great question. Next question from Rose. Who is most likely to break up the Sinner Alcaraz domination in 2026? Is it a current top 20 player or is there a next gen? Rose hasn't used the hashtag next gen. But is there a next gen player coming through that we have yet to fully appreciate?

34:37Matt. It is pretty much the most interesting question, I think, in men's tennis right now. and maybe people are sick of the discussion and maybe we're assuming there's going to be a third because it was like that for the previous generation. We might be looking for something that isn't there. I think that's very possible here. It was interesting watching Taylor Fritz yesterday against Alcaraz, the Sky Sports tennis team. We're going very big during that match on sort of this question. You know, we've been looking for the answer to that question and maybe the answer is right there in front of us.

35:22Maybe it is a Taylor Fritz who's already there. And watching him play like that in those conditions, it seemed quite a compelling case. You know, he was excellent and he hasn't got sort of miles to go. You're not sort of banking on loads of potential, untapped potential. you're more banking on whether he can just slightly improve and slightly get over the line I just think though that the match ended up demonstrating the challenge that he's got because I just don't think he can play better than that and these were conditions which absolutely suited him over best of three and even if he'd won he wouldn't have won the title he'd probably still have to go through Sinner a couple of rounds later you know like it's such a big challenge so like I'm not sure the answer is Fritz here Hannah says Fritz lost is kind of the key point right like I did think I did think they went quite early with that discussion on Sky like after a set I kind of thought well maybe have that discussion at the end if he wins but they sort of were having it during the match I was thinking I still sort of think players are a little bit vulnerable on grass you know just thinking about the surface and when I say trying to you know I'm taking Rose's question trying to break up the Sinner Alka as dominance I'm really taking that to mean win a major off them you know and if you look at it you know Tiafa he's not my answer by the way But he really pushed Alcaraz at Wimbledon a couple of years.

37:10I think that's almost the closest Alcaraz has been to losing at a major in the last couple of years in a match that he has ended up getting through, you know, against someone that isn't Sinner. I was going to say, put respect on Bertic's name. And then Sinner this year was two sets down to Dimitrov. You know, like, I think Wimbledon has low-key been in the last couple of years, a little tournament where there's been threat to the top guys. So I was trying to just think, who is it on grass who could maybe do something like that? Oh, my God. Are you going to say Mazzetti? Well, I have. Are we that high on Mazzetti?

37:51No, I was going to say Draper, actually. I think the Wimbledon element is a complicating one for Draper. See discussion that we had with him on that interview and the pressure. I think playing on grass and playing at Wimbledon are quite different things for Jack Draper. I think his game does suit the grass, you know, that lefty serve, his willingness to, you know, take it on. But at the moment, Wimbledon feels a little bit inhibiting for him.

38:25So then I did think, well, what about Klay and Mazzetti? because if you're looking at like who the next best guy is on the surface, I do think it is Mazzetti on clay. He's adding a coach next year, isn't he? Jose Perlas to his team, who's worked with Moyer and Costa and Correa. I think Juan Carlos Ferreira actually as well. I'm interested to see what Mazzetti's ceiling might be on the clay, I suppose, with that in mind. So he might be ruined forevermore. Or made by yesterday. I think yesterday was so helpful. I hope so. I just have in my mind, you know, the end of the 2016 season where we now know that Andy Murray was grinding his hip into oblivion when he was playing every week to try and get number one.

39:24Like I have that trauma in my mind when I'm watching Lorenzo Mazzetti. But that's my baggage. I sort of think that maybe the most likely way that someone wins a slam other than an Alcres sinner is a kind of Burtick situation happening rather than someone actually becoming. Is your answer Burtick van der Zinskul? Rather than someone actually becoming part of the pack with them, it's almost like taking advantage of a potential dip. Like a dip to me feels more likely than someone actually getting up to their level. And maybe that's where a Fritz comes in. I don't really think Fritz is going to beat one or both of them at a slam, but I think he might be likely to capitalise on a freak event, you know, where one of them loses.

40:22and that I think but that's not really in the spirit of the question I don't think in terms of like breaking up their dominance it'd be taking advantage look honestly I think Sinner and Alcraz are probably splitting the slams next year there are players that I really rate and back to make improvements and maybe position themselves to be there to maybe make it a three or a four or whatever in 2027 who knows a year is a long time in tennis but right now i think i would be surprised if those two didn't split the slams david well i i i feel like that that actually they're just better than everybody else so you know i think the answer is nobody's going to do that um the the two players that i actually think are best equipped to to disrupt them maybe maybe not be certainly not be a Djokovic amongst them uh to Federer and Nadal but but somebody who I actually think could take grand slams away for them by beating one or other of them in a specific year need to be bloody healthy and the problem is they're not and that's jack draper and artifice and i genuinely believe they have the physical capabilities and the firepower to hurt those guys but do i do i think that they're going to be fit enough to be to be able to do that i think there's a massive question mark isn't there i mean you know feast was feast and draper they were both getting quite well they were getting right into the conversation six months ago playing every week being in the quarterfinals of the masters 1000s feast nearly beat our crowds in monte carlo draper's won indian wells and then they're injured and they're injured for a long time and even when they get fit how long does it take to build yourself back up again and actually get to where you were before it's and these two have just been getting better so and they don't get injured do they I mean not not like those two do so I so in the end I just don't really have any faith that any of them are going to get close um yeah I mean I think there could be freak events they could get the odd injury they could get a serious injury I really hope they don't but my expectation is 12 grand slams in a row between them I mean I've said it for one of them it's not far off between them well hang on what are we on we're on well we're on eight so is that right yeah I mean it's total domination of two people next question also comes from Rose we loved seeing the coach player partnership of Andreeva and Martinez yes we did Rose what a vibe they were so are we left wondering why there aren't more female coaches, especially in the women's game?