BONUS: The Tennis Podcast Meets - US Open 2026 Edition

0:10Hello friends, with us going to the International Tennis Hall of Fame over the last couple of days for the inductions of Maria Carrillo and Roger Federer, we've not really had as much time as usual to gather interviews for the Tennis Podcast Meets, But thanks to the invaluable help of Catherine Sneddon from the WTA and one of our favourite tennis relived contributors, Steve Flink, we do have what we think will be an insightful and enjoyable lesson for you. First up, we've got Tatiana Maria, 39 years of age, owner of one of the most unorthodox game styles in the sport. And she's a mother as well to 12-year-old Charlotte, who very much intends to turn pro herself.

0:53so lots for Tatiana to talk to about and my word is she a good talker. Then it's Sarah Bailick almost half Tatiana's age but coming off the most wonderful week in Cincinnati where she's just beaten three Grand Slam champions in Arena Sabalenka, Madison Keyes and Barbara Krachikova. I do have to apologize to Sarah though, I kind of did in the interview as well and I apologize to you, dear listener, for believing the internet a little bit too much in my research for that conversation. We live and learn even when we're in our 50s. Finally, you'll hear from Steve Flink, a member of the International Tennis Hall of Fame due to his contributions as a tennis journalist and author.

1:38He talks to us about the Mary Carrillo he knows and his new book, Immortals of American tennis. I'm sure you'll enjoy it and the other conversations starting with Tatiana Maria. Tatiana, lovely to see you. When you saw your draw, Jelena Ostapenko, what did you think? No, I thought it's not an easy draw, of course. I mean, she's a really good player, really aggressive. Yeah, I have to be there from the beginning till the end. Every point will count, but I'm yeah I play two times we know each other well so it's like it will be a fight but I'm ready you see when we see that draw we're all our eyes drawn to it we picked out four or five matches that were the matches the first round and that was definitely one of them because of your differences in in style are you aware of that that your style is so different to hers yes of course I know that my style is different.

2:40We played on grass two times. I guess that's a little bit different too, even that the courts are pretty fast here and I feel well too. But I know that it will be my game that can be different for all the players, not only for her, but I have a different game style, what is, I guess, my bonus a little bit. and I have to stick to it to be ready to fight for every point and I think anyway in every tournament everything can happen. Has your game style changed much over the years? I know you went from you changed two-handed to one-handed but has it changed in terms of philosophy almost over the years or have you always sort of had this as your game your base game and developed it?

3:28I mean it was always my base game the only difference I didn't accept it really at the beginning. So it was a little bit harder for me to accept it, to play different, to stay different and to accept my game style because when you come on tour and you're the only one who plays like this, you know, sometimes people, they don't want to really practice with you, even that I practice in a different way, but it's different. But I have to say now as older as I get, I accept it more and more and now I'm completely inside and we really try to to figure it out to go to the net to be aggressive in my game and I'm really happy about it.

4:05When you say about practicing do you ever have any issues with finding practice partners now I mean you just said I practice differently I mean does that mean you practice differently to how you play in a match? Yes pretty much but I have to say I don't practice anymore a lot with the other girls because already of this because otherwise I would not play how I play in my matches if I play only slice during the practice most of them they don't want to practice with me so that's why I started to play to hit normal balls when I practice with other girls but otherwise I try really to stick always sparring partner of course with my daughter every day so I stick to these people and I can do what I like to do what I have to practice for the matches and I feel much better about it.

4:53It's pretty cool that you can call your daughter also a sparring partner in each day I mean I guess but I mean and actually that that makes me wonder where you are in your career now because I mean these days players do play until they're 40 and and over 40 and you're nearing that now I just wonder how you see your career at the moment is it does it tend to be sort of one year at a time where am I that kind of thing yeah I mean it's one year at time to be honest I am I'm really I mean I'm enjoying it my body feels great what is I think the most important because now in my age it's pretty much that you have to stay healthy to play still but my goal is still to be on tour when Charlotte starts to be on tour so I have to be fit I have to practice I have to stay there so I really try every year to stay to stick around to to play all these big tournaments because I think that's that's important and I would love yeah to play the doubles when Charlotte starts so that's my goal it's a lovely goal I mean I think she's about 12 or 13 12 13 the end of December and and she is that determined that she wants this as her career as well yes I mean I don't know it you know sometimes I was asking her you really want you yeah yeah i want this i want this we're gonna you know the last two days ago we watched three hours the mixed doubles and we were like she was so into it she she really loves to be i mean for her it's completely normal she grew up here she this year in wimbledon it was her 10th wimbledon and we were like oh my god 10th wimbledon already and you're only 12 so it's it's really nice for her it's the routine and we're gonna keep going we're gonna travel with her uh later so we're gonna stick to the same routine I guess for the next I don't know how many years because the little one is playing good too so let's see do you have a sort of time frame in your mind as to what she should do when I mean there's a junior circuit then the there are opportunities if you know I don't exactly know but yeah I mean we have a different kind of things in our head so normally she will not play the juniors.

7:10We are really making her ready to be on the professional tour right away. So we don't want to lose the power in the juniors because nowadays you can play so long. I mean, she has time if she's 14 and you can play only like five pro tournaments. You have so much time to improve. And I think 14 to 18, it's only the time to figure it out, to play some tournaments, to get better, to practice on the stuff what she has to do and to be ready when she's 18 19 20 you have time i mean like i me my first title came after i got pregnant so i mean nowadays everything can happen and anytime some they're faster some they need more time she's young she has time we don't put any pressure on on on this on the time um you're a tennis parent as well as being a tennis player it's a very unusual sort of thing we often talk about tennis parents do you do you have a sense of of what role you want to be with her as the years go by the mom only the mom i mean i'm doing school now with her so i guess i'm i will stay always a little bit the teacher too but otherwise the mom i don't my and my husband the same he's for the moment he's the coach but at one point we would like that she has her team we are the parents we're going to be there all the time that's for sure but as mom and dad and like a family and I think it's it's important to have this relationship too and now of course it's a different my husband is our coach and it works super well but I think for her in the future if she has her team around and we are there like really like her parents I think this will be a dream it's a wonderful story and we really look forward to following it with interest with the tennis podcast so we follow tennis year round and we will absolutely follow this story just one final question um we remember very warmly your win at queens and this year they're not giving you a wild card and this year at the u.s open stan vavrenka came back here 10 years after winning this title and he didn't initially get a wild card they've changed that decision just wondered we often discuss wild cards on our show and how they should be used and whether they should even exist i just wonder what you think the role of the wild card should be i think if you if you were a champion i think automatically you should be able to get a wild card i mean you know maybe the time frame maybe 10 years is a lot i don't know but you know this here for queens it was the year after so i think the year after i think you should have so much respect to to give wildcard to the champion from the year before after i i don't say in five six years if i come back and you never know what happened in this five six years and to say oh i was a champion i i won the wildcard it's maybe a different story but i think the years after i mean especially the year after i think it should be normal to get that the champion if he doesn't is not in the main role to get a wildcard.

10:15I think that's the only thing. If we need wildcards in general, I don't know. I think for the tournaments it's nice because if you play sometimes tournaments in countries where they don't have really players to give the player from over there a wildcard, it's a little help. So I think it's still important to have something like this. Tanja, it's lovely to speak to you. Thank you for talking to us. Thank you. Well, Sarah, very nice to see you. How do you feel coming in to the US Open, obviously the final Grand Slam tournament of the year, and after such a great run recently? Yeah, I feel great.

10:51I came to New York with very good vibes and emotions, so I'm really looking forward to that. I was just looking at your run in Cincinnati, some incredible names, even right at the start. And when you came into that tournament, did you feel a little different? and tell me a little bit about how you found that sort of form. Yeah, we came from Toronto to Cincinnati and since the first day there I felt very good. We had very good vibes in the team and we were enjoying every day there. So it was, yeah, the vibes around the team were kind of different but yeah, we didn't know how it's going to end. So it was a little bit different, but yeah, I still had to play and had to compete.

11:42I would imagine you go into each one of those matches as kind of the underdog, as the player not expected to win. Is that a position that you enjoyed being in? I imagine it frees you up a little? I don't really know. Depends on my altitude and on my mentality. but of course it's a little bit easier because I have nothing to lose in that moment but still I wanted to win so yeah Did you, when the matches were going on and you were having those successes I mean, were you believing from the start of each match that you would win or that you could win or did you surprise yourself? I didn't really think about it.

12:32I just were going on the court that with mentality I'll do my best and let's see how it's gonna end. Yeah so that was the only mentality I wanted to have in my head and I didn't want to have any expectation and that's it. I just wonder when you were coming up and trying to become a tennis player for the first time you see a lot of players and Many of them are 1.85m or taller. You're not as tall as those players. Did you have to sort of convince yourself that your height would not be a problem for you, that you would be able to compete with anybody with what you've got? Not really. I always believed.

13:15I always believed in myself and I was trying to compete with them. I didn't really think about it. I mean, also a lot of people are around, they are talking about it, but I always was like, yeah, I'm going to try my best and I'm going to compete and let's see how it's going to look. What do you think your biggest strengths as a tennis player are? I think my movement, probably, and the smart game. Yeah, well, you certainly showed that last week. I was reading that you like heavy metal music. Is that right? No? No, no. Okay, well that's a mistake. I don't know where you find it, but no. Okay, what do you like music-wise?

14:06Depends on my mood. I literally listen to everything but not have a metal note. Okay, you should try it. Okay, well that's a website that was getting a little bit imaginative. Is it true, though, that your parents own a winery? Is that true? That is true. That is true. Okay, phew. Yeah, my brother owns a winery, but without the heavy metal, no. Is that something that you have shown an interest in yourself? Have you visited the winery and that sort of thing? I don't know if I can speak here. I mean, I'm not 21 yet, so I'm not going to speak about this. Fair enough. As a final question, you're coming into the US Open, the first round.

14:55How have you found your last few days here in New York? Yeah, I had a couple of days off here in New York and I came back on courts on Wednesday. So we are practicing, working and I'm really looking forward to my match. I will do my best and let's see how it's going to end. We look forward to it. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.

15:19Well I'm here sitting inside somewhere I've never been before, the International Tennis Hall of Fame in Newport, just a couple of hours before the great Mary Carrillo and the great Roger Federer are inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. And it feels like the most fitting time and occasion and place of all to speak to a man that's also and already been inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. one of the great writers in the sport of tennis, one of the great historians of the sport, a man who has just released a new book that we want to talk to him about, and that's Steve Flink.

16:01Steve, this is a place that you know well, I think, but this is completely new to us, the International Tennis Hall of Fame. What does it mean to you as a place when you walk in? It means just about everything. I think of coming here for the first time in 1977, and being flown up on a plane with Arthur Ashe and his wife. The Hall of Fame wanted a bunch of us insiders, inside the sport, players and writers, to see what they were doing. And that was almost the embryonic stages, even though the Hall of Fame started in 54. And then it's come to mean a great deal to me. I've gone to all the ceremonies since 95 when Chris Everett went in.

16:39Lucky enough to be inducted myself in 2017. So the annual trek to Newport is always a joy. And you can see that, The excitement, I mean, I think maybe it's even elevated a little bit because of the fact Roger Federer is being inducted this year. We're here because Mary Carrillo is here and she's somebody that means so much to us, both personally and professionally. And I'm sure that's the same for you, isn't it, Steve? You're somebody with a lot of history with Mary. No, absolutely. No, I've known Mary since 1977 when she made a splash at Wimbledon and nearly upset Carrie Melville-Reed. and that was the year she won the French Open mix with John McEnroe.

17:20And I know, I mean, she's, I'm so happy for her. And to me, it's overdue. And I've been around her a lot the last couple of days and it's all sinking in. And she's remarkably humble about the whole thing because to me, once she was on the ballot, it was a no-brainer. But I'm very happy for her. And she's the only one, I think, who could have shared the stage with Roger and not only held her own, but been on level ground. Wow. It says everything, Quitty. doesn't it? Why do you think, why is she being inducted? Why do you think she means so much to so many people who love tennis? You know, it reminds me a bit, she's not identical to Bud Collins, but there are some similarities and each of them are big, powerful personalities with great sense of humor and tremendous devotion to the game and appreciation for the sport.

18:10And I think Mary, you know for decades now when she found her true calling had to quit playing because of the bad knees and started commentating in 1980 it just was it's been such a natural thing and i think people have felt that she was a unique figure in the booth because she was such a great journalist and because of her of her humor so we just the public hasn't seen anybody quite like her across all these years and to be inducted at the same time as roger federer i think most people will understand why he's been inducted with his incredible achievements. Can you remember seeing him for the first time?

18:47Can you remember wondering whether he might become a significant figure? I mean, I know your book is about the immortals of American tennis, but he's an immortal of the global game of tennis. When were you convinced that he would be maybe in a position like this? I'd say I was not quite convinced, but getting there very fast when I saw him beat Pete Sampras on the center court because people need to remember that Pete had won it from 93 to 95 at Wimbledon, lost to Krychik in 96, and then he'd also now won it in 97, 98, 99, 2000. So seven of the last eight years, he'd been the Wimbledon champion.

19:25Here's Roger playing him on the center court and beats him in an epic five-setter. And even though he lost to Tim Henman, and that was the round of 16, he lost to Tim in the quarters. I still felt he's on his way. He can't miss. And And frankly, I was a bit surprised. I thought it might happen even faster. I thought it might happen in 02. Instead, he got his first Wimbledon in 03, and the rest was history. You know, he became one of the greatest players in the history of the sport. But that Sampras match was a very strong indicator. And Pete himself is one of the figures that you cover in The Immortals of American Tennis.

20:03I imagine that was a no-brainer, really, wasn't it? I mean, again, somebody that came on the scene early, won a U.S. Open, then had a little bit of a lean time and then started to clean up. And that seems to almost be a feature of greatness. It doesn't automatically just go in a straight line. No, as you put it that way, you're right, because you think of Roger had to go through his growing pain. So did Pete, because after winning the Open, the youngest ever at 19 in the summer of 1990, toppling the likes of Lendl, McEnroe and Agassi in order to take that title. He did have some tough times in 91 and 2, and he was back in the final in 92, lost it to Edberg.

20:46And he said so many times and he spoke very eloquently about it when I interviewed him for both my book, Pete Sampras Greatness Revisited and for the Immortals of American Tennis. That one was where the rubber hit the road, as he put it. In other words, he had a hard time looking himself in the mirror, felt that he had, he didn't feel like he'd given up, but he felt like he'd given in. And maybe there's a slight distinction there between those phrases. And, but he was never the same again. Losing that final to Ed Berg when he had a chance to go up two sets to one and got beaten in four, it just scarred him.

21:18And he just didn't want to taste, have that taste in his mouth ever again. As it turned out, he lost a couple more majors, three more major finals. But in the end, he was 14 and four. And I think Ed Berg oddly did him a favor by beating him that day because Pete realized then who he wanted to be and what it was going to take to get there. When you decided to embark on this book itself, The Immortals of American Tennis, what was, I mean, as you said, you've done multiple books before. What was the sort of goal for you? What was the inspiration behind it? Why this? Well, why this was, I think it was an Australian publisher, Gelding Street Press.

21:58And in Australia, they were doing a series of books on American sports, American golf, boxing, different sports. So they decided they were doing tennis, and they found me online, and we had the discussions. I don't know whether I necessarily would have thought of it, David, because I wrote a book called The Greatest Tennis Matches of All Time. That was my preceding book to the Sampras biography. and there were some similarities but some distinct differences, serious differences as well. And so I was just happy that they put the idea on the table and that I could then pursue it. Of course, there were difficult choices to be made, but as you said, in Pete Sampras' case, that's a no-brainer.

22:37I mean, he had to be among the immortals. And there's only 19 immortals in the book, 10 men and 9 women, so it's a very elite group going from Tilden and Wills Moody all the way up to Sampras. Agassi and the Williams sisters so I was just glad I was happy that they approached me and that I had the chance to put this together because it was a joy. Did you have any difficult decisions to make about who to omit? Because as you say 19 immortals of American tennis there have been so many great champions were there any that felt like they kind of could have been there if you'd have had more. Oh, absolutely.

23:16I mean, Jim Currier wins four majors and he came, he's an honorable mention. Andy Roddick, last American to win a major and to be at number one at the end of the year, 2003. I didn't even get him into honorable mention. There were very difficult choices. Tony Trabert, who had one of the great seasons of the 1950s, winning three of the four majors in 55, he went into honorable mention. So yes, there were tough choices all around. Jennifer Capriati and Lindsay Davenport, who had great careers, won three majors each. Lindsay had four season-ending number one rankings. They went into honorable mention, but I put Tracy Austin in because I thought her impact was greater.

23:57So yes, decisions like that were plentiful along the way, and I had my lists, and I ripped them up, and I drew up new ones, and I ripped those up until I was finally satisfied that I had it right. When people open this book, what are you hoping that they find, that they discover? Well, the main thing I hope they discover is what an embarrassment of riches American tennis has had over the decades. People over across history, because people are yearning to see another man win a major title, with Roddick being the last 23 years ago. So at this point, and we have a cluster of guys, including Ben Shelton, that just might fill that gap.

24:35but I want them to look back on the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Connors, McEnroe, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith, so on down the line back to Tilden and Budge and Kramer and Gonzalez to realize what an incredible history America has played in the sport. And same with the women, Wills Moody, Maureen Connolly the first woman to win a Grand Slam. Maureen in 53 did it and Don Budge was the first man to look at people like that and understand what monumental figures they were. When we research our episodes of Tennis Relived, which are our own historical looks and journeys into the great world of the past in professional tennis, we always find something that surprises us that we didn't know happened or a different angle.

25:29And I just wondered, when you're researching this, I realize there's a lot of it that will all be lived experience for you, for those whose careers you did live through and are living through. And there will be many that you've researched in the past. But did you uncover anything that even surprised you in this journey? No, I mean, mild surprises, but it was more the surprise of certain comments made to me by these players. Martina Navadilova, for example, talking about how she didn't give herself, allow herself vacations when she was in her prime and regretting it now and thinking had she done so, she might have even lasted longer at the top, which is, it's pretty hard to imagine, you know, somebody winning Wimbledon nine times, but that's how she looks at it.

26:14So that was interesting. Tracy Austin talked a lot about things that happened to her, crystallized everything that went wrong for her after her great illustrious start in the winning two U.S. Opens by the time she's 18. And so it was certain, and Billie Jean King, my favorite was Billie Jean King, because she talked about, we asked her about Jimmy Connors and how he had always stressed that the best 11 days of his career was the 1991 U.S. Open at 39 as semifinalists. And I remember thinking at the time, how could he say that? It was a great run, but this is a man who won five U.S. Opens on three different surfaces, and he's going to cite a run in the autumn of his career or nearing winter that he did this at the Open.

27:00And I brought that up to Billie Jean, and she said yes. And she talked about losing two Wimbledon semis in 82 and 83 when she was 38 and 39. And she said, look, don't give me the semifinals or final stuff. It's about winning the title. And I love that. I love that because, as you know, Billie Jean often will, in interviews, she has a lot that she wants to get across. All players do. She has some preconceived thoughts, but that was a very kind of, that was a moment of stark candor, I thought. And I loved it. And she wasn't knocking Jimmy. She just was saying, no, that's not how she looks at it.

27:34Yeah. And I imagine, I mean, as we find with Tennis Relived, and particularly for yourself as somebody who's such a tennis historian, that this must be a quite joyous experience to be able to continue to do it. When did you first get the bug for wanting to look at the history of the sport the way that you do? You'll like this, given your background and the country in which you grew up. But it was 1965. I was just about to turn 13. My father took me out to Wimbledon. I had seen the 63 and 64 Davis Cup finals on television, and it left an impression on me, and I'd played tennis already. But going out to Wimbledon for the first time, going out to Court 3, watching Rafael Osuna, who had won at Forest Hills in 63, playing Ingo Booting of Germany on a cloudy afternoon, sitting there with my father, in the days when you could easily find a seat out on Court 3 or any outside court.

28:29It just from that day forward I was reading every newspaper, checking the results. I was back at Forest Hills at the end of summer because I had parents living on both sides of the ocean going to Forest Hills every day and I was hooked. So I would say it was just that incredible first day for me at Wimbledon in 65 on the edge of my 13th birthday. That's when the fascination developed and never stopped. That's great stuff. And here we are in Newport, in Rhode Island, on the eve of the induction ceremony. It's a huge deal for us because we've never been here. It's going to be a huge deal, I think, for everybody who's here, isn't it?

29:10This, I imagine, will be a very special experience today. I think so. Listen, we talked about Mary, and Mary is a beloved figure in the world of tennis broadcasting, the world of sports broadcasting, we should say. And so it's going to be a great day for her and for her to be rewarded for all of the great work that she's done in tennis. And the best tennis journalist we've probably ever had in a broadcast booth. But then, of course, Roger Federer will be front and center. And one would think, people would be mistaken if they think that Roger, with all of his honors, including the eight Wimbledon titles and the 20 majors, would take something like this for granted.

29:51And having been around here the last couple of days, I can assure you he's not. And I think he's concerned about whether he might break down crying in the speech. I think he's approaching the speech the way he might have once approached a major championship, that he must do his very best work. And maybe he realizes he did that speech at Dartmouth that got great reception a while back. and it traveled all over the internet and it was a really beautifully delivered speech. This will be a different kind of speech and a more important one. And I think he has such reverence for the Hall of Fame himself that he wants to be sure he does it justice in his remarks today and just doesn't treat it like yet another honor among his many accolades.

30:37And the other thing that's great, David, is this is bringing in sports fans. Obviously, all tennis fans are thrilled to see him. they were waiting for this day and they knew how inevitable it was. But sports fans are going to be looking at this. And I think that I can only imagine what the ratings are going to be like on Tennis Channel or anywhere else in the world. So I just think it's a unique day in the history of tennis. And whether we can, in the years to come, we're going to have Serena Williams at some point soon and Rafa Nadal. but can any of them quite match what Roger has meant to tennis and the affection that the public, they can come very close.

31:18Whether they can equal it, I have my doubts. Well, we're thrilled to be here. We're really looking forward to it. I'm going to now have a wander around the museum that we have just a few steps away from us where we sit here, Steve. And I, and I dare say many of our listeners, will be also enjoying your book, The Immortals of American Tennis, which is available now, I think, and you can get it on Amazon? Yes, you can get it on Amazon. It's been out since the 4th of August. And people should realize, David, that they can, so they're like separate compartments. If somebody wanted to start this book and begin with Pancho Gonzalez, jump up to Andre Agassi, go back to Helen Wills, Moody, and Tilden.

31:58It need not be read in order, although I think that might be preferable. But either way, they're separate compartments. and I tried to do justice to all of these great immortal American figures. And I can honestly say I enjoyed writing this book probably more than any of my previous books, and that's saying something because they were also labors of love. That's wonderful. Steve, it's been a pleasure to have you with us here on The Tennis Podcast. Thank you, David.