BONUS - Wimbledon 2025 Review Show

28:02Catherine Whitaker:And that's good.

28:05Jannik Sinner:Six events happening this week. Not good. Six. One of them is in a place we've never heard of. An event we didn't know existed. It's all very tennis. Right, let's hear from our next contributor. It's an old fave, folks. It is the comforting, familiar sound of The Telegraph's Simon Briggs. good morning tennis podcast it's Simon Briggs here sorry if I sound a bit bleary I was supposed to do this last night but I ended up playing two sets of doubles and then having two beers which as with David is pretty much my capacity these days I was going to talk about Wimbledon off the court because it was pretty eventful so eventful in fact that I ended up doing a piece that look back at other anarchic Wimbledons.

29:02In the course of that I mentioned 1995, which of course was the subject of a brilliant tennis relived podcast episode just before Wimbledon, and also at 2013 when so many players fell over on what was called Wacky Wednesday. And I found this quote, for a sense of Wimbledon's painstaking preparations, consider that they will not introduce a new fertiliser or piece of machinery to the outside courts until they have trialled it for at least two years on the practice facility. From there, it will gradually creep towards centre court, but only after regular checks and measures, which I thought was interesting in the context of electronic line calling and how erratic and hitch-filled this first year had been.

29:44The club weren't happy about the coverage they got. They became quite defensive. The errors mounted up. Obviously, we remember the one where in Sonny Kartal's match against Pavlyuchenkova, the ball flew long but wasn't called. There were other incidental hitches along the way. There were wheelchair doubles players who were constantly being called for foot faults even though they didn't think their wheels had crossed the baseline. It just seemed like it hadn't maybe been war-gamed to the extent you would normally expect from Wimbledon. And it wasn't as if the players seemed very confident about it either.

30:22Now when it was announced this was happening I felt like it was the right decision. But having seen how much doubt there was, having spoken to so many of these officials who say that there's a difference between the way Hawkeye performs on a hard court and a natural surface, I do now find myself wondering if perhaps we'd be better off with the old system, especially as at Wimbledon, you don't have that level of engagement from the crowd that you see at the US Open, say, and the old system of Hawkeye challenges was one thing that would reliably get people involved and get them clapping and yelling and make the whole place come alive a little bit.

31:03So much to my surprise, I thought it was disappointing, and I would think that in another world, we might almost slip back to the old system, except that that would involve a loss of face, And I suspect that's the one thing that Wimbledon could not put up with.

31:21Jannik Sinner:A bleary Simon Briggs there, bringing a very different perspective.

31:28Matt Roberts:I have to say that electronic line calling just isn't something that... Electronic line calling versus human line judges isn't something that sort of interests me gets me going as much as I realise it does. Some people, I find it, I'm broadly in favour of technology. I realise the argument here is less about the principle and more about whether the technology actually is sufficiently good yet. If the technology is good enough, I think we should be having technology. I personally didn't miss line judges, but of all the things to get hit up about in sport, and I don't need too much encouragement to get hit up about things.

32:16Matt Roberts:Like this just isn't one of the things that gets me going.

32:23Jannik Sinner:But I do realise, Matt, that for some people it really does.

32:28Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, absolutely. I was the same really. You know, coming into this year's Wimbledon, I was reading a lot of the coverage and seeing that it was a talking point. You know, the first Wimbledon with electronic line calling. I suppose I've just been so used to it happening on the tour now that I kind of just thought, right, we're in this era now of electronic line calling. Fine. But as the tournament went on, it crept up on me. And actually, it was becoming quite a big talking point. And a lot of players were being asked about it. A lot of players didn't seem to trust it. And not just in an Ostapenko sort of amusing sense.

33:07Catherine Whitaker:There did genuinely seem to be players having a lot of problems with the calls that were being made. And of course, there was that big error that Simon referenced in the Kartel-Pavlyuchenkova match, which was a sort of dark day for electronic line calling at Wimbledon. And really interesting to hear about it being different on a natural surface. I didn't realise that coming into the tournament. um the big thing for me the in-person stadium experience is i still think and i think this on the tour generally there needs to be a more obvious visual cue i think for these calls when it's electronic line calling because very often you can't actually hear it because of the crowd eruption and previously you would look at the line judge and they would be making the in or out signal and that and that would sort of immediately tell you what's happened now as far as i can tell the only visual clue that there is is a very small light on the umpire's chair which goes green if it's in or red if it's out and the amount of people that know that very small the amount of people in the stadium that can see that even smaller and it's just not very satisfactory That was my main experience of electronic line calling, being surrounded by people and myself not knowing whether the ball's in or out.

34:33Catherine Whitaker:And that's just not great, really. I think we need to, as a sport, improve that with some sort of visual element if we're going to go with electronic line calling. And I take Simon's point as well about they're feeling like a slight lack of life in some of those stadiums when, you know, we don't have Hawkeye and all that kind of thing. Personally, that's not enough of a reason for me to go with line judges over electronic line calling if the technology is good enough. But it's going to be interesting. They're going to need to improve it, I think, because another year of it being like this with some errors, with players not trusting it.

35:12Catherine Whitaker:And I think suddenly Wimbledon would have a problem. As it is, I think. Probably got away with it this year and there'll be a sense that it hopefully will get better. But yeah, I think Simon's right to mention it because it got a lot of coverage and a lot of players were asked about it. And, you know, when someone's doing the tennis relived on this year's Wimbledon in 20 years time, they'll read through the newspaper clippings and be like, wow, electronic line calling was a big talking point because it was.

35:44David Law:yeah I often think of my kids who miss the the heartbeat sound and the Hawkeye graphic and all that sort of thing or they used to I mean they went to Wimbledon this year they didn't mention it they enjoyed the matches I actually thought the outlier was the French Open not having anything and I thought that looked faintly ridiculous in this in this era of technology and I think that there were probably more mistakes there than there were here. And just on the point of going back to the hybrid model of having Lion Judge and Hawkeye, I do miss elements of it. But that isn't going to make the accuracy improve, because it's still the same technology.

36:29David Law:And if you're deferring to the technology over the Lion Judge for an appeal, then you've still got the same chance of it being wrong. I just think, look, it's the first year. Of course, there were going to be issues and they're going to be worked on and the technology is going to improve. That's progress and that's, you know, adjustments along the way. I suspect it'll in a couple of years, we will wonder what we were banging on about.

36:56Jannik Sinner:So that's Simon Briggs' hungover, slightly left field take reflection on Wimbledon. Here is an even, well, a less hungover, but an even more surprising take on Wimbledon 2025.

37:15Matt Roberts:We knew when we asked Matthew Olarawadu, our incredible camera operator and all around vibes guy,

37:26Jannik Sinner:to do a voice note for this show. We knew he would surprise us. But he surprised me in the way that he surprised us. Let's put it that way. Here is the one and only, our very favourite person, Matthew. My most impressive performance from the two weeks at Wimbledon 2025 is Lloyd Glasspool and Julian Cash winning the men's doubles. This was impressive for me because winning tournaments before a slam can be a blessing or it can be a curse. Whereas you're in form but have you peaked too early and there's a lot of pressure going into the slam because you're winning. No one wants to be a safina and win Rome and Madrid but lose in the finals of the French where it really matters.

38:19and this was my fear for Glasspool and Cash. They had a hot streak, they reached the final in Hertogon Bosch and they won Queens and Eastbourne but as I said did they peak too early? This also reminds me of Agassi's Sum of Revenge which I read in this book. In 1995 he lost the semi-finals of Wimbledon to Boris Becker and after that he went on a US hard court tear. He won five tournaments in a row and during the US hard court swing and he called that the sum of revenge and then he reached the US Open final and he lost to Pete Sampras and it took him a long time to recover and this is my fear for every player who have a tear, who have a hot streak leading up to a slam and when it matters you lose so I didn't want that for Glasspool and Cash.

39:19I was actually working for Babalat doing social media content during the during the two weeks and Cash and Glasspool they use Babalat racket so they came to the Babalat house and they did some social media content and Cash rode in on the motorcycle and Glasspool was a little late he walked in But they seemed too relaxed for my liking. Too relaxed. I would have been a nervous wreck. But they seemed locked in from day one in their matches. But when they played their quarterfinal match with Patton and Helio Vara, the defending Wimbledon champions in the quarterfinals, they pulled off a Carlos Alcaraz and saved three match points in a row.

40:05and once they did this and I saw their eyes and I saw their look I knew they are not losing this Wimbledon championship they are not going to throw this away they've got through these three match points in a row and yeah they played the final they had a slight wobble they had a lead in their second set but they got broken back and they had to play a tie break but we all knew that they're not going to lose the tie break and they won two brits winning the men's championships is historic this hasn't happened for many many many many many years so it might not be the outstanding win of the championship but for me it's really impressive because they had the hot streak and they kept it up and they didn't falter done i don't know about you matt but i just had

40:55Jannik Sinner:no idea that poor old Matthew was carrying around all of this anxiety about Julian Cash and Lloyd Glasspool for the whole fortnight. I'd have cut him more slack if I'd have known. When I woke up to a text from Matthew saying, I'm going to talk about the doubles, I thought he was having me on. Really, I did. Then he sent me three voice notes of all about four seconds as he kept cutting himself off while sending it and then eventually he puts together this absolute masterpiece of a voice note linking it back to the 90s which I knew David would love and that's the thing about Matthew he just has all of this tennis knowledge and all of these tennis thoughts that are just waiting to come out and I just you just have to prod him a little bit and then suddenly all these takes come and they are sensational and I loved it.

41:55And he's revealed there his double dipping that he was doing during the tournament for Babalat as well and a bit of insight into what Glasspool and Cash are like behind the scenes. Oh, perfect. It doesn't take much prodding for him to reference Dinara Safina winning Madrid and Rome and not winning the French Open, does it? It's always there. It is his favourite clip. We watched it one night. It's just a guaranteed laugh. The whole press conference is so good. Yeah, Serena, of course, being asked about not being number one because Saffrona was number one and she tries to be magnanimous and say, well, she won Madrid and Rome.

42:38And then she bursts out laughing. It's an incredible clip. but he makes a very

42:47Matt Roberts:well a very interesting and a very salient point for this for this particular Wimbledon David which was a running theme of our shows and which is are we all making too much of the lead up events does anything actually mean anything I think I said that on one of the shows didn't I it turns out nothing means anything and tennis podcasting is actually totally futile. And of course, it's our business, it's our trade. We have to try and draw conclusions from Queens and from Hattogenbosch and from Halla and from Eastbourne. But actually, maybe it's all nonsense and nothing means anything. Or maybe it means everything in the case of cash and glass pool.

43:38Like, what are we supposed to do?

43:41David Law:yeah i i think the truth is trying to establish cause and effect isn't going to be possible that i don't think there is enough data really because there's too much contrasting data it doesn't mean nothing but it doesn't mean everything it's and it's it's great fun to talk about and it's part of the tour i'm i'm fine with it but it's it's been a tough year for people in the position that I used to be in promoting Queen's, which was a brilliantly run tournament this year and fantastic that they had the women's tournament that showed that that should be an absolute certainty for the rest of time at that venue.

44:23David Law:But, you know, in trying to establish cause and effect, I don't think it was a great year for people who want to big up the pre-tournament builder. but you see I think the beauty is that some of it meant something and trying to work out what it was is what's interesting right Amanda Nisimova played great on the grass carried it over to Wimbledon

44:50Matt Roberts:you were erasing the Berlin tank no the Bad Homburg tank no Berlin Berlin it was Berlin she'd had enough she had absolutely got the matches she needed on the grass get me out of berlin and get me to wimbledon where i'm going to reach the final like it worked um what was the other one i was going to say igor svontek having the week on grass leading up to wimbledon turned out to be absolutely massive as well and of course some of it didn't you know tatiana maria lost in the first round um public jessica begula jessica begula like public beating sinner so it's it's kind of like trying to work out what matters and what doesn't, what's real, what isn't, what's going to carry on, what isn't.

45:38And of course, we can't know, but we can have an idea by following it,

45:45Catherine Whitaker:which is what I find interesting. I feel like it does inform us as we go into these slams. Sometimes it misleads us, but sometimes, like, I think for a lot of people, Amanda Nisimova would have been a shock finalist at this year's Wimbledon. you know just your casuals watching watching on the telly but she wasn't really I mean in terms of like getting to the final it was it was a surprise but we said it semi-finals were well on for Anissimova as soon as that tournament started and that was because of the grass court season that she'd had and the form that she was in so I kind of think it's our job to try and try and cut through it and try and make sense of it as best we can and obviously we're going to get some massive misses along the way.

46:29Catherine Whitaker:But we'll take the wins when they come.

46:34Matt Roberts:Thanks, Matt. And Taylor Fritz as well, I suppose, is an advert for form in the lead-up events translating into form during the tournament. Yeah, OK. Thank you. Thank you. We are... Our job is safe, is what I'm saying.

46:50Jannik Sinner:Our job is safe until AI comes for it eventually. Great. Let's hear now from, well, I feel like I'm saying the one and only before everybody, but they are all the one and only. It can only be folks. We have to hear from her. It's Pam Shriver. Well, Wimbledon 2025 was really special, both on court and off court. First, the off-court. I loved that my Wimbledon 2025 was bookended by the podcast team. I showed up on the Thursday before Wimbledon, straight from Los Angeles, did a little bit of unpacking in the flat, and then headed off to the Shoreditch Town Hall. It was just so much fun, again, to see a live show, see the interactions with people on the barge and then obviously got ready for Wimbledon and seeing all the action we saw and then I ended up being a guest as I usually am actually after women's semifinals and this year it was after the mixed doubles and it was fun heat wave and all bugs and all unexpected visitors going around the picnic table and to finish my work at Wimbledon with you all was great.

48:19The other really cool thing for me off court is the last about 10 years I've had my girl twin Kate come with me to Wimbledon but this year her brother Sam came as well so the twins actually got to watch matches on center court sitting together. Sam and Kate went to Phantom of the Opera on the West End, Kate's favorite play. Sam got to see it with Kate. And they helped me celebrate another birthday at Wimbledon on July 4th. So that was terrific. And while we're on family stuff, I realized a few months ago that this Wimbledon was going to be 25 years since I met their dad, George Lazenby, who played the second James Bond, and he's Australian.

49:07And, you know, while we got divorced, he's been, we still remain one family. So Simon Briggs helped me tell the story of the 25 years, the roller coaster ride. And, you know, it was really rewarding to see that the story was really embraced by the readers. and it became the most read article published by the Telegraph in any sport this year. So that was pretty fun to share our story and have it be relatable to so many people who read it. Maybe it's people who also care for an aging family member with dementia or how in time when, you know, relationship is broken and is in disrepair, that it can be repaired in time.

50:04And that's what's happening in our family. Anyway, on to what happened on court, because it was, as any major, it's extraordinary from, you know, all the upsets in the early days to, I think we all actually on draw day, one of the names, we all threw out there is like, having had a pretty good part of the draw was Amanda Anasamoa. And I want to focus on her journey, touch on obviously her long journey of being a phenom, somebody who all eyes eight years ago, seven years ago was this is a player with the ball striking skill and the overall talent to make it to the top of women's tennis. and their setbacks in life that were incredibly impactful.

50:57The loss of her dad, dealing with expectations of being that stamped with the phenom label, such an early on. She was, after Naomi Osaka, opened up the whole mental health notion that many players were suffering from mental health issues and needed to take time away from the tour. And Amanda evidently just made the most of that time away from the tour. I'm going to throw in my favorite word. Did the big reset. And it's been building back in the last year with her ball striking skills intact. And I think what we saw was she was in a good part of the draw. She made the most of it. She showed off why her backhand is on the backhand list.

51:48And, you know, obviously the highlight for her was, for Anna Samova, was that win over Sabalenka. And that put her on the final weekend, right? Final weekend. Obviously, the women play on the Saturday. And she's accompanied in the singles final by these three players. Iga Shiantek, who've been undefeated in major finals. And then on the Sunday, it would be Alcaraz undefeated in major finals against Sinner. One of the rescue cats wants to be let out. Okay, Keono. Anyway, so Anna Samova, with her lack of experience, like no experience playing in major finals, was obviously a very impactful thing.

52:35But it was also because she was playing against someone, Shviontek, who only had great memories and tremendous experiences in her previous major finals. Only, you know, struggling in one, winning the others very easily. And then, obviously, the Sinner Alcaraz match, we knew that their past experience of major finals would help them produce a great final. And it did. But I kind of identified with Anna Samova because when I look back at my one major final in singles, and I hope Anna Samova has more than one, but when I look back at my one, the three other players that were in the singles final was Chris Everett, Jimmy Connors, and Bjorn Borg, and then the 16-year-old Pam Schreiber.

53:28And I can remember going into that singles final. One of the things I remember the strongest all these years later was how scared I would be if I went out there, froze and lost love and love. I literally I had an extra day to think about it because I beat Martina on the Friday. Chrissy had a rain delay and she didn't finish her. Semi went over Wendy Turnbull, the rabbit on Saturday. That's why our singles final was Sunday. And so it was like a doubleheader. Everett, Shriver, and then Borg, Connors. And then I kind of did a lot of thought like, oh boy, I'm so happy I was able to hold my opening service games and settle in.

54:21And I think my final could have been very different had I not started with a good service game. and I ended up losing, I think it was 7-5, 6-4. It was really good. It was sort of like Bagula-Sabalenka quality of a straight set final. It was a good one, and it turns out I'd never get back. But anyway, let's turn it back to Anna Samova. While she did obviously start incredibly nervous, kind of froze a bit, But Sion Tech was perfect. So it was the perfect storm for a six love, six love major final, which I had seen one other of when I was at Roland Garros in 1988, when Groff was on her way to winning the golden calendar year Grand Slam.

55:07So I loved the way Anna Samova walked off the court, came back, gave a great speech, and the emotions were all fine. and then also spoke so well in the press conference. And we'll see where her journey goes from here. But well in 2025, obviously, everybody always remembers the singles champions the most. And so here's to Sinner and Svantec.

55:38Jannik Sinner:Not everyone, Pam. Matthew is thinking about Julian Cash and Lloyd Glass, and sorry Matt I know you're trying to forget Saturday but there's Pam to make you relive it all but also give some hope and some perspective

55:59Catherine Whitaker:and it's so interesting to hear Pam talk there because she's been in that experience that Anissa Mova was in and I hadn't really appreciated the point Pam made there about who the other names are alongside you at finals weekend. They're the players that you're seeing in the locker rooms and on the practice courts, and you're just sort of surrounded by them, and it must be intimidating knowing their records compared to yours. Yeah, look, I am trying to forget that final. the one question I would have for Nisimova I don't know when the right time would be to ask it I don't really want to keep bringing that back up but like why didn't she go off court after the first set is something that I keep thinking about you know you see so many players go off court now after a set and far less harrowing sets than that one I just think maybe going off court and trying to have some sort of reset, she might have been able to come out a bit better in the second set.

57:16Catherine Whitaker:Maybe not. Maybe all was already lost. But that's something I've been thinking about since Saturday. Because if you think about, you know, the way that Pam said there, how she went off court after the match and how that had such a transformative effect and, you know, how brilliant her speech was. We didn't really shout that out on the show on Saturday, but it was fantastic the way she took her time to thank the people in her box and in particular her mother. And I thought it was really important that she got out ahead of that story as well. And I know we've had the 2008 Australian Open relived, haven't we, where Songa has said subsequently that he wished his mother and hadn't come in for the final.

58:06Catherine Whitaker:you know it's of added added to the pressure of it but i just think you could tell that anisimova was glad that her mum was there for that final for that moment she obviously hopes to be back in that situation but she wasn't blaming her performance on on her mum being there she actually talked a lot more about fatigue didn't she and how tired she was post that sabalenka win in in the heat and look i am worried about the public perception of what what people in this country will now just associate Amanda Anissimova with that which I think is a terrible terrible shame I'm choosing to focus on first slam final biggest win of her career in the semi-final top 10 debut and yes I'm not not kidding myself that that final was a was something that you can just get over I think it will take a bit of time but I do believe you know she's gone back she's clearly spending a lot more time with her family at the moment she's as you described earlier she's got this team now around her which I think is in place for more sustainable long term success and with that talent I think she is going to be back at the latter end of a Grand Slam and whether that's a final I hope so but I certainly think she's going to be back in quarters and semis more regularly and with her game I think that's where she belongs and she's shown that this season and that's what I'm choosing to come out of this year's Wimbledon thinking about for Amanda Nisimova, not the final.

59:45David Law:I just would say that I do think that she's going to reach a final again and I don't think that this is the end point. I think this is the start of something. I believe in Amanda Nisimova's game and I actually believe in her mindset too. I think that there are good things going on there.

1:00:06Jannik Sinner:And we'll always have Thursday, won't we? We'll always have that incredible, well I'll have that incredible moment with Matt sitting next to him when Anisimova beats Abelenka but just the incredible experience of that match, the occasion, the drama, the backhands. The blonde!

1:00:29Matt Roberts:and it's not an anomaly that much women's semi-finals day at grand slams is has consistently been a round a day in grand slams that you can bank on is delivering something not necessarily both great matches that's that's pretty rare on i think both the men's and the women's side of the draw but you can you can pretty much bank on something good happening on women's semi-finals Day at slams in this current era. And that is something that our next voice note contributor has picked up on. And I'm very glad he did. This is a voice note debut from a brilliant journalist and a friend of the Tennis Podcast, somebody that's been very active on the barge for a long time, but that we met in person in Paris.

1:01:20Matt Roberts:And I'm very pleased to say has become a friend of ours and a real companion at these last two Grand Slams. It's been a great privilege getting to know him.

1:01:29Jannik Sinner:It is Itamar Katzier, who works for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, and this is his voice note. Hey there, fellow friends of the Tennis Podcast. What an honour to record this voice note for you, and what a treat again meeting Catherine, David and Matt, the truly nicest people ever, and meeting for the first time the legend that is cameraman Matthew. So hi there, Matthew. Look, maybe by what I'm about to say, I'm only trying to compensate for the fact that I had to miss the first couple of rounds. We seemed like the best fan ever. But I genuinely think that my favorite Grand Slam day, and for a while now, is the second Thursday, aka Women's Semifinals Day.

1:02:14I think it's just a sweet spot of Grand Slam tennis in terms of quantity and quality. Think about the last five women's semifinals that we've had. Starting with Wimbledon 2024 and the match of the year between Vekic and Paulini and also Krejcikova upsetting Rybakina. Then at the US Open, there was this comeback win from Jessica Pegula against fan favorite Karolina Mukova. The Australian Open this year brought us the match of the year on the women's side so far with Madison Keys beating Igash Vyontic in an epic final set tiebreak. And at the French Open, it was Sabalenka dethroning Svyontek with the third set bagel playing amazing tennis on the clay.

1:02:55And then came this year, this edition, that in a matter of probably about two hours, flipped the script completely on an entire tennis season. Going into it, I think it was obvious that Irina Sabalenka was having the better season while Svyontek was having the roughest season of her life. I mean, Sabalenka is the number one in the world. She was the favorite to claim the title. She could have reached a third Grand Slam final in a row. While Sviontek was still, it seemed, recovering from her doping ban and the emotional toll it caused her and had no finals to show between her title in Roland Garros in 2024 and the final in Bed Homburg on grass just one day before Wimbledon started.

1:03:41Going out of it, it was a completely different story. Sobalenka lost to Amanda Nisimova, playing the tennis of her life in the match of the tournament, in my opinion, with all due respect to Alcaraz and Sinner, and was denied yet another Grand Slam title while coming as the favorite. On the other hand, Sviontek figured out grass, made it to yet another final, steamrolled through Belinda Bantic in a really persuading manner, and generally seemed like she was having fun on the court again and probably also off it. I mean, that's the beauty of this day. Suddenly, for Sabalenka, it's somewhat of a disappointment, while Svyontek, even before playing the final itself, and let's leave, for Matt's sake, the women's final out of it, was recovering.

1:04:27So I think that highlights the amazing place that women's tennis is in right now. You have these three main characters at the top in Svyontek, Sabalenka, and Goff, oozing of main character energy. But you still have the space for other great personalities, storylines, narratives to emerge. Think about Madison Keys, think about Amada Anisimova, Belinda Bencic, Laura Sigmund, Louise Boisson, remember her? And I think that's the beauty of women's tennis right now, that anything can happen, anything can change in a minute. And that is also truly, truly a sweet spot.

1:05:11Jannik Sinner:can't believe he snuck Laura Siegmund in there I see you Laura Siegmund and Lois Boisson as a duo what a doubles team

1:05:26David Law:I'm looking forward to seeing Lois Boisson again, I'm actually looking forward to seeing Laura Siegmund as well, you know, it is one of those things, that's what Grand Slams do especially when you have two back to back like this and both have generated stories and this I'm over isn't it going to be interesting to see the hardcore season start properly and in a way not having the Olympics as wonderful as the Olympics was and I loved it last year but I I am quite pleased that I feel like the tour will be able to pick up with some storylines that we've we've been following and everybody can start again and there will be a lot of fresh people around it'll it's going to be great and as such a good point

1:06:09Catherine Whitaker:for me tomorrow i think on on women's semi-finals day i've often i've often thought it and i think i've articulated it in terms of like as as it says sweet spot for just like the amount of tennis like two best of threes one after the other most likely containing some top players because it's the semifinals it's just a great amount of tennis to be able to like digest in one sitting and for people to enjoy there's none of this split session nonsense that the other slams have going on for the men's semis like it's just two best of three one after the other but i think the point that he makes is a great one about like how the whole narrative can just shift in a in a night you know Like thinking about Australia, we were so ready for Sviontek Sabalenka to finally meet in a Grand Slam final.

1:07:02And we didn't get that.

1:07:04Catherine Whitaker:And yet it was fine because Madison Keyes was so incredible. In Paris, the narrative shifting was Sviontek not winning Roland Garros. It just changed on women's semifinal day. And here again, it was Anissa Mova stepping up and beating Sabalenka this time. and yeah, kind of paving the way for Svantec to, I was going to say get her season back on track, but it wasn't even that. It was like elevate it into a great season because anytime you win a slam, it's a great season. And especially for Svantec winning Wimbledon, just coming as such a surprise really, but she was absolutely the best player in the tournament.

1:07:43Her serve was so good. Her movement patterns have got better on the grass. Her forehand's holding up better. like her approach to the sports better on grass it all came together for her and I don't think I

1:07:56Catherine Whitaker:was I thought after she beat Collins she can win Wimbledon but it was only after semi-final day where I thought I think she's going to win this year's Wimbledon and I know I kept saying I've got my feeling for Nisimov but obviously Svantec was was the favorite for that final and yeah things shift things happen on women's semi-finals day and we're in a period now where Sabalenka's reliably there Sviontech or Goff or both are kind of reliably there and a kind of wild card story as well whether it be a Boisson or a Samova or a Keys and the beauty is like who's going to be the next one and that's what I love about where women's tennis is right now and I think Itamar has really nailed that and how it all comes together on that women's semi-finals day Yeah

1:08:46Matt Roberts:I agree and it's such a contrast to where men's tennis is right now. I'm not saying men's tennis is in a bad place. Like it's hard to look at Sinner and Alcaraz and say, wow, men's tennis is in a bad place. Like that's not the take, but there is a debate there. Like there is this contrast and some people will prefer one situation and some will prefer the others. And that is exactly what Charlie Eccleshire

1:09:09Jannik Sinner:of The Athletic has picked up on in his voice note. Here is Charlie. Hi everyone. It's Charlie Eccleshire here, reflecting on this year's Wimbledon, which, yeah, felt like a really good one with the kind of thrilling, upset-heavy start, but then the strong finish at the end. And it's kind of the end, well, the last weekend where I really want to focus. I thought Catherine posed a really interesting question on the last pod about kind of the situation at the top of men's tennis. and whether it's kind of a good time because we've got this great rivalry or not so much because there's such a gulf between those two and the rest.

1:10:02I mean, where I tend to fall on this is I think the thing you don't want, there are two situations. One is the same person winning all the time because whoever that is, that gets a bit boring. And on the other extreme, you don't want it to be so many winners that you can't really get your teeth into it because there's a different person every time and you know on the ATP side we've had more of the former I'm thinking mainly Djokovic there were periods where he was kind of winning everything and that got pretty boring and predictable and on the WTA side you know we've had periods where it did seem like no one could really stay at the top for that long so I do think on the men's side

1:10:48it could really do with an injection of someone else getting anything close to their level and you know the sweet spot I always think is the big four era and the big three because that was kind of the perfect balance of you didn't really know who was going to win the tournaments but you knew you could feel pretty sure that you were going to get some blockbuster semis and finals and I think there is a little bit of a risk that when you've only got two as well, you are a bit at the mercy. If one of them goes out early, as happened at the US Open last year, then who's going to then stop the guy that's left?

1:11:33And it's interesting as well because we're in a situation with just two as well that does leave the risk that one of them could just dominate for a period and then it gets a bit boring. and obviously we're now in a situation where Sinner's won three of the last four he's held championship points in each of the last four he goes into the next two Grand Slams as the overwhelming favourite really so there's a reasonable chance we're talking about him having won five of the last six and I talked about on Saturday's show kind of you know it would be good for Sinner to beat Alcaraz to keep that personal rivalry in the head-to-head interesting I think now we're at a point where you know i think most people in the interest of keeping competitive would probably want alcaraz or someone else to you know kind of end center's complete dominance on hard courts for the fear that then that makes half of the grand slams each year pretty predictable um who's that person going to be well i just wanted to quickly touch on novak djokovic because i despite um sharing everyone's thoughts really and his own about how often he is compared to Sinner and Alcaraz I'm not so convinced he'll be as despairing as some you know I think there'll be a part of him that thinks were it not for Grigor Dimitrov getting injured then he would have been in the Wimbledon final Novak which is almost certainly true you know he who I don't think anyone who was left in that part of the draw would have knocked him out and then he'd have been in a final against Carlos Alcaraz, a guy who he has kind of spooked the last couple of times they've played, especially that Australian Open match.

1:13:12I still think he thinks, give him a Grand Slam match against Alcaraz, and he's got a pretty decent chance. So, you know, then there's Sinner, and yes, Sinner's a big problem, but could someone do a Dimitrov? So I don't think Novak is, you know so to be written off and look that's probably coming partly from a position where you know I've been following him for 20 years and you kind of learn never to write him off even though now he's in many ways as far as he's been but he's still the best of the rest he's still in a position where if he was playing you know Berrettini in Grand Slam finals and Nick Kyrgios and Stefanos Tsitsipas, as he did for those few years, you know, 21 through 23, he'd be winning Grand Slams.

1:14:02So he's, and, you know, Sinner obviously is a huge, huge obstacle. But the US Open is, in a way, I know Wimbledon felt like his best chance in many ways, but then Alcaraz is great on grass. Whereas I think you go to the US Open and, you know, Alcaraz hasn't been great at the hard court slams since he won the US Open three years ago. And the US Open is the one where mad stuff happens. Just finishing as well, obviously thinking about, okay, so that's where the men's is. And in my kind of imagined sweet spot of having three or four people who are kind of getting to the latter stages. Well, I really like the look of where women's tennis is right now at the very top.

1:14:46I mean, you look at the last eight grand slams, Sabalenka's won two, Shviontek's won two, and Goff's won two. And then Keyes won one of them. And I think Keyes is in a position where, you know, she should be getting to the latter point of slams reasonably regularly. And then obviously Krejcikova won the other. But that to me is really nicely set up. And Sheviontek won her sixth Grand Slam. And that's quite an exciting spot to be. And I was thinking about that of kind of like, why does that feel so exciting? And we're on the women's side. It's been ages since someone got to that mark. The last person to win a sixth major was Venus Williams in 2007, just before her and then won the French Open to win her sixth.

1:15:30Both of them ended up winning seven. But yeah, otherwise, really, in the last coming up to 20 years, it's been, you know, obviously Serena winning loads and loads. But lots of players winning, you know, two, three, maybe. Osaka got four. But, you know, not getting beyond that and getting to the point where you're thinking, where are they going to be? are they going to be a kind of all-time great and Sviantek you know winning her sixth and obviously going for the career slam next year in Melbourne as is Alcaraz and you've got Sinner going for his career grand slam it does feel like we're at a point we were kind of in the mid-naughties when obviously on the men's side you also had Federer and Nadal getting to those sorts of numbers so yeah very exciting times I think there and yeah apologies that it's such a kind of top-down look at the sport but I think sometimes that's where one's focus is certainly at the end of Grand Slams and I think you know as much as we acknowledge that sometimes there was a disproportionate interest in the big four, big three, Serena, Venus, Sharapova.

1:16:40It is those players right at the very top of the sport who take a lot of the burden to an extent. So yeah, right at that end of the sport, some very exciting narratives developing. So thank you very much. Thanks to you guys. It was great to share it with you as always, especially sitting next to you in the press center, made it even more enjoyable. And look forward to seeing you soon. Roll on New York. Bye.

1:17:10Jannik Sinner:Roll on New York indeed. Although, and look, I don't do this lightly because I do think Charlie has some magic going on with his forward-looking takes and his predictions. Obviously, he can dine out on Vondroshova forevermore. and he was the guy that picked that Carlos Alcraz would not win this Wimbledon when it felt overwhelmingly likely that it would, that he would. But I would be so shocked if Novak Djokovic won the US Open. So shocked. I was shocked to hear that take from Charlie. Discuss. Yeah.

1:17:59David Law:I'd be very surprised. But what I would say is my first reaction to Novak Djokovic's loss is will he play the US Open? And Novak Djokovic's first reaction was I'm aging. I haven't got any energy at the end of tournaments. But he does do that sort of knee-jerk reaction in a press conference quite a lot. And I fall for it quite often. so counting him out especially when he is a comfortable number three in terms of the most likely I don't see who else it is if it's not him makes me think that that is a fair point that he makes you know if you took Sinner out of the equation I mean aside from Alcrest who is the who is the likely finalist who is the who is the likely one to come through?

1:18:56Well, I mean,

1:18:57Jannik Sinner:Taylor Fritz reached the final last year. Novak Djokovic lost second round to Alexi Popper.

1:19:02David Law:10-0, Catherine. Yeah, I agree.

1:19:07Jannik Sinner:It's interesting, the sort of clear number three thing. Like, yes, he is, but this issue of having nothing in the tank when he gets to that stage of slams. Like, he'd be a clear number three in round one. But is he a clear number three in the semifinals when he's got five best-of-five-set matches in his legs? I don't know. He's telling us that maybe he's not. And while I do agree with you, and I am more of a sucker than you for falling for knee-jerk, in-the-moment reactions to things that they don't really mean. I'm a total sucker for that. and maybe this is me falling for that again. But I got the impression that Djokovic, after that sinner defeat, was confessing confirmation of a theory

1:20:06Matt Roberts:that he's had for a long time rather than reacting to that loss in the moment.

1:20:12Jannik Sinner:I feel like that loss and the manner of it was confirmation of something he's been thinking for a long time and wasn't just emerging in the heat of the moment after that defeat. That was my feeling anyway. What do you think, Matt? I agree. Look, we basically did a show writing him off, didn't we? And then like a few days on and it's kind of like, oof, why have I written off Novak Djokovic? But I know how I felt in that moment. I know what I saw in that press conference. I know what I've seen for 18 months now. And the one exception is the Alcaraz win in Australia because that was over the best of...

1:20:59David Law:What about Sinner at French Open? That was pretty close.

1:21:02Jannik Sinner:It was a straight-set defeat.

1:21:04David Law:But he lost in straight sets. A very close straight-set defeat against Yannick Sinner. It's not like he's lost to some duffer. And then he would have had Carlos Alcaraz to play two days later.

1:21:14Jannik Sinner:It was still a straight-set defeat. He's beaten twice in the last year. absolute best and the and the win over Alcarez at the olympics was absolutely astonishing but it was a year ago now and it was best of three and it was conditions that he will never have again in terms of needing it more than anything he that was like the last match you play and then it's the apocalypse like it was just astonishing What about the Australian Open then?

1:21:46David Law:When he beat him with an injury? Right, and then he lost. Then he retired. Over the best of five. And then he retired in the next round. And then if he'd got through that, he'd have had to face Yannick Sinner. But it wasn't like an energy loss, was it? It was an injury. But it was a loss in terms of condition. And that keeps happening. The evidence is there now that these things keep happening.

1:22:06Jannik Sinner:And this was an injury, David. This was the injury he sustained in the quarterfinal with that fall. and he was the one that said, but it's because of age. Like I'm feeling these injuries the way I am. I'm not able to recover from them the way I am. I'm more likely to sustain them all because of age. And I think you can't write him off completely because I agree with you, David. If something happens and Sinner loses early or Alcarez loses early, I still think Djokovic is the most likely to pick up the pieces because, yes, he's struggling in these latter stages, but I think he's really struggling because he's having to face a Sinner or an Alcarez and that's taking so much out of him.

1:22:57I think latter stages of a slam, if his route to the title suddenly looked like Fritz to play Zverev, I think if he's not had to face Sinner, he's not have to face Alcaraz. Yes, he's feeling it a bit, but I'm probably still backing him because of his experience and his talent and what he can still do, what he would have in the tank. So like you can't write him off completely, but in the slams that we've seen recently where the fields are holding up and Sinner and or Alcaraz are getting there at the end, I think it's gone.

1:23:33Catherine Whitaker:I think that has gone for Novak Djokovic in terms of being able to beat both of them in the latter stages and that now is what it feels like he has to do and that to me is where the shift has been and that's to me what he was saying in that press conference I think he still thinks as Charlie pointed out if Dimitrov takes out Sinner suddenly it's all looking a little bit different and he's maybe hanging on that and he can he can maybe hope that one of those happens in the next year or so, which is possible, but at this stage feels quite unlikely.

1:24:10Jannik Sinner:It's also a problem that the one he feels, and I think rightly so, that he has more of an in with, and that's Alcaraz, is the more likely not to be there. He's the one that's more likely to... I mean, I think that's fading a bit, the sort of feeling of uncertainty in Alcaraz and like he might get Bertic'd. But Sinner feels, it feels like something astonishing would have to happen to Sinner for him not to be there. And Sinner is such a problem for Djokovic.

1:24:45David Law:And yet it is only a week ago that it was two sets to love against Grigor, 33-year-old Dimitrov.

1:24:53Jannik Sinner:You think he still would have won that? And you think he wouldn't have been two sets to love, Dan, if he hadn't fallen?

1:25:00David Law:I don't know I mean I definitely You said on Sunday you think he probably would have still won that I think he probably would have done but I mean the evidence is two sets to love that's the only evidence we have so I whilst I think he is the most reliable bet in the sport right now Yannick Sinner I'm certainly not I don't think he's Djokovic impregnable from the heyday of his career put it that way

1:25:35Jannik Sinner:Do you think Djokovic is comfortable accepting that it's out of his control, that he's relying on a picking up the pieces situation, is he willing to hang on and put in the work that he's having to with this this date he referenced a database didn't he of sort of his how he keeps track of his physicality and all the things he's doing to keep himself in shape it sounds like an all-consuming task to try and maximize his his body how long is he willing to keep doing that just to be in a position to pick up the pieces if something goes wrong for the other two yeah it's

1:26:20David Law:it's a great question uh i don't have the answer because my initial reaction was upon seeing him in that match looking so short and so and so old really was that why would he want to keep doing this you know um but i do wonder about whether he was injured um based on that fall i do realize that it's sinner but then again sinner a few weeks earlier he was competitive i know that he didn't win a set but he was competitive um i don't know what sort of fire burns left um i could very easily see him just ditching it all for the rest of the year or knuckling down and thinking i'm going to give it a give it a roll of the dice and maybe something will happen you know i don't know where that belief system is though catherine that you reference against Sinner particularly.

1:27:16David Law:Like, does he in the heart of hearts believe that he can beat this guy? That's where he must be shaken right now because all evidence suggests that that has gone now. But, you know, the thing is, sport isn't what happened last week. It isn't just that. Anything could happen. Sinner could fall over. Sinner could run into the wrong player. a sinner could have a a bad day in his personal life and just not be the same things can happen that that can change how you feel and change how you look at it and change how it ends up being and that's what what did we talk about at the start of this podcast upon listening to hannah's voice now turning up if you don't turn up you definitely ain't gonna win it yeah and yet the only certainty is time aging yeah that is certain and when is that that's a that's an interesting one that will be fascinating to find out over the

1:28:21Jannik Sinner:course of it maybe he'll win the mixed doubles with Olga Danilovich get his name on one last on a roll and mic drop retire a trophy's a trophy um that's what olga will be saying uh right by the way let's have by the way while we're on that um amanda nissimova's ranking now i think would be high enough to get her and holga runa in for direct entry into the into the uso for mixed doubles how is how is he piggybacking off Amanda Anissimova's Wimbledon run. It's what he does. What was your word for Amanda Anissimova? Unbecoming. Playing with Holger Runa. Yeah. And like, Runa, get a job, stay away from her.

1:29:17Right, let's get some Italian vibes. I often reference the Italian media and how sort of exhilarated, but also totally harassed they are all the time because of just the extraordinary success

1:29:33Jannik Sinner:their players are experiencing and like the depth of it. Obviously, Yannick Sinner is doing what he's doing and Jasmine Paolini, but like go down the draw

1:29:45Matt Roberts:and it is Italians everywhere and new ones emerging. Like they are bursting at the seams with Italian talent. So here is a returning tennis podcast contributor from the Italian newspaper Corriere della Serra.

1:30:04Jannik Sinner:It is the wonderful Gaia Piccardi. Well, what can I say? It's been a remarkable fortnight for Italian tennis and us, Italian sports writers. I was lucky enough to be in Tokyo on August 1st, 2021, when Marcel Jacobs won the Olympic gold medal in 100 meters, first Italian sprinter in the history of the Games. And I was again the right lady in the right place on Central Court on Sunday, July 13, 2025, last Sunday, when Yannick Sinner from Italy became the first Italian man on green moon, as I called him on Corriere della Sera, the newspaper that I'm working for. What a time to be alive. Besides Yannick, his three easy rounds in the tournament, his luck to survive Dimitrov, the ability to beat Shelton with an injured elbow and then Djokovic who was injured himself, and more than the match point with Alcaraz on Central Court, I think I remember forever seeing an incredible rise from Paris' disappointment to London' triumph.

1:31:2136 days from Roland Garros to Wimbledon to regroup, reset, make history. Well, if in two years I'll be able to witness an Italian boat win in the America's Cup, which is the only sportive event in the world older than Wimbledon, by the way, I think that I can declare that I am an unhappy journalist. See you next year, Wimbledon. We have a beautiful cup to keep in Italy, the replica at least. Bye. What a vibe. She's so cool. What a time to be alive.

1:32:00David Law:I love Gaia. I will listen to her all day. Every time I see her in the press room, I just want to start a conversation just to listen to her. she's wonderful I love the reminder there that like it's not just tennis like we're doing good things in in other sports we're having a good time generally and like it's so true it's seven seven slams in a row now where there's been an Italian in the final because the you know the two that Sinner missed Jasmine Paolini got there and like as you said there's them but like sustaining them through the week there's also a coccureto beating pagula there's a cabali having a great run mozzetti's had a great year like there's just so many players and i really love that you get the sense that gaia is appreciating the moment of being a journalist at this time

1:32:56Catherine Whitaker:covering the sport and it's just really really special the way that the way that she talks about it and yeah I you know we talk a lot about Novak Djokovic comparisons with Yannick Sinner and Hannah's written a fantastic column saying you know he's not Novak Djokovic 2.0 he he absolutely it's a different feeling to watch him play his power is different everyone should read that column it's it's absolutely magnificent i see this as a very djokovic kind of win for yannick sinner one of the one of the most amazing novat djokovic slams i always think that he won is the 2015 wimbledon title where he just had that loss to stan wavrinka in the french open final finally he'd beaten nadal at roland garros finally it was his time to win the career slam and he got hit off the court by Wawrinka.

1:33:55Catherine Whitaker:And, you know, he would go on to win several French Opens. It wasn't the one and only moment. But at the time, it might have well felt like that was his chance to win Roland Garros, given that Nadal's grip there was so strong and he was likely to be back. But then he just went and won Wimbledon. And then he just went and won the US Open. Then he went and won Australian Open and the French Open. And like that resilience and that ability to come back from disappointment, I think, is something that Sinner is displaying in his in his career right now, whether it be being able to play on through, you know, doping positive tests, whether it be having to get rid of his team on the eve of a tournament or whether it be coming back from holding three match points in a row and not winning against his greatest rival.

1:34:48Catherine Whitaker:coming back and just winning in the final a month later. I thought it was an extraordinary effort from Yannick Sinner. And look, as much as I think people can probably tell that we get like the biggest buzz out of Carlos Alcarez, like he's the guy that I think we all like watching the most. And we've, you know, we're not hiding that fact. But I really have got a lot of pleasure out of watching Yannick Sinner play in the last year, particularly watching him live. I think, again, Hannah's column really points to why that's a special experience. Just watching him hit the tennis ball is different.

1:35:29Catherine Whitaker:And in this one, the fact that he beat Alkraza in the final, to me, elevates it above his other slams, you know, where he's beaten Fritz or Medvedev or Zverev. Like we hadn't seen him up against his biggest rival in the final and winning it. And we got that here. And I don't know, to kind of go to Charlie's point, I'm not feeling like we need a third one right now. Personally, I'm getting a lot of joy out of this Alcaraz-Sinna jostling right now and the rivalry that's developing and forming. I don't feel like right now we need another one. I think I'm loving this rivalry, and I can't wait where it's going to take us over the next year, two years, and more.

1:36:19Catherine Whitaker:I think it's so interesting how they match up against each other. And yeah, Sinner winning that final on Sunday just changed the narrative a little bit, and I thought he was a joy to watch. and I don't think I got quite as much joy as Gaia out of it, but still plenty. Yeah, I definitely would point anybody in the direction

1:36:46Matt Roberts:of Hannah's column that hasn't already read it. It really helped me appreciate even more Yannick Sinner's achievement of winning that final and the turnaround from the devastation of losing in Paris, those 36 days, as Gaia pointed out as well. Just incredible. And just a final thing I wanted to touch upon is that we've got these two champions, Yannick Sinner and Iger Svantec. Both of them have served doping bands in the last 12 months. Imagine being told 12 months ago at last year's Wimbledon, after last year's Wimbledon, that at next year's championships, Two players will win the title that will have served doping bands in the intervening period.

1:37:37Matt Roberts:And it won't even be a talking point. I think Itamar mentioned it briefly in his voice note. But it's not a talking point. And I'm not saying it should be. But it is pretty crazy, isn't it? Like how much that has faded into the background. I know there'll be tennis fans out there. It divides opinion. For some people, it will always colour their view of these players. But in the general discourse, it's not really a feature, despite the fact that they both lifted the trophies at this Wimbledon.

1:38:19David Law:Yeah, I was a little surprised it didn't get a bit more mention. I think it has been talked about obviously a lot when it was happening, but I think most people just accept that there was the findings of the case. I think that some of the timing of it and when they were able to not play, i.e. when the suspensions were, was a tough one to stomach in some regards. And, you know, the fact that you can, if you've got the money, you've got the legal team that can help you fight these situations. But I think the fact patterns and the amounts involved just felt like they didn't make any difference to the fact that they won these titles for most people.

1:39:17David Law:So I suspect that's why we are where we are.

1:39:21Jannik Sinner:And I do wonder, this is unanswerable, pure speculation, but that recovery from losing in Paris.

1:39:31Matt Roberts:I mean I do think part of that is just the incredibly well adjusted person mentally that Yannick Sinner is and also what an incredible compartmentaliser he seems to be but if he hadn't had those three months off and hadn't been coming into the spring summer part of the season when it's so intense and so hectic with his canister, his tank refreshed would he have had the requisite resilience to recover from what happened to him in Paris and bounce back for Wimbledon we'll never know but I certainly don't think it hurt I really don't um yeah it's it's fascinating and it brings us to our final voice note contributor we are reverting to the rule if nobody should have to follow Mary Carrillo.

1:40:26Matt Roberts:And that includes us. These will be our final words for a few days. We will be returning, don't you worry,

1:40:36Jannik Sinner:to talk about the six events that are happening in the tennis world this week. What's the name of that event that we'd never heard of before, Matt? I've already forgotten it. It's somewhere in Romania that I actually think Andreeva might have won it. last year but it's a combination of mostly vowels is it yasi that sounds right yes it is a lot of vowels yasi yes it had passed me by that that was uh that was on the calendar look i'm sure our listeners are absolutely hanging on our yasi takes and our star takes our los cabos takes Borstad Hamburg Iassi and folks the Hotman Cup that seems to be returning this week David's got the face of get me to Portugal

1:41:34David Law:yeah I'll leave you with those but folks don't worry we won't be abandoning you we will be back I've just looked up the honour roll at the Iassi Open and oh yeah women's singles Anna Bogdan, Anna Bogdan, Mira Andreva. It's a backhand list haven. I should be all over this tournament. Right, Matt will be back on Monday to bring you his EASI takes. Until then, we will leave you with the incredible, wonderful words that we're so lucky to get of Mary Carrillo.

1:42:13Matt Roberts:Thank you to Mary and thank you to all of our contributors to this show. Thank you to you for being friends with the Tennis Podcast, for making all of this possible.

1:42:21Jannik Sinner:And we'll be back with you very soon indeed. Here is Mary. Among so many things that Novak Djokovic is famous for are his long, thoughtful answers in press conferences. And he gave them again after he lost in this year's semis in a match hobbled by age and injury. Now, some great athletes have been able to explain Novak's plight a lot quicker than he could. Like the Hall of Fame baseball player Reggie Jackson, who said it this way, I'm still Reggie, but not as often. Or the Hall of Fame hockey great Wayne Gretzky, when he said, It's like suddenly they say, give me your skates, you're done. The football Hall of Famer Johnny Unitas said, They tell you things change, but they don't tell you how much.

1:43:08And then there was that great transcendentalist, Ralph Waldo Emerson, who observed that, quote, the best tunes are played on the oldest fiddles, unquote. Now go fuck yourself, Waldo. Who let you in? Which brings us to yet another one of my, for no good reason, and no one asked for it, tennis podcast film reviews. In this episode, we bring you the 1968 classic, The Lion in Winter. Now, in my tennis brain, Djokovic is that lion, that aging monarch, struggling to keep power. But in the film, it was Peter O'Toole. He played King Henry II to Catherine Hepburn's Eleanor of Aquitaine. She's the wife he's kept in a dungeon for 10 years.

1:43:54But what marriage doesn't have its problems? They each want a different one of their sons to one day take the throne. And though it's not historically accurate, there's no doubt that back in 1138, 1738, verily, this was one crazy-ass royal family, with plenty of overarching cruelty, intrigue, backstabbing, a hallmark of Middle Ages households. The script and the acting are spectacular, and the film's director, Anthony Harvey, was a lover of the long-revealing continuous take, my favorite filmic trope. This movie is beautiful. Anyway, Old King Henry says some very true things, like when he intones, there's no sense asking if the air is good, if there's nothing else to breathe.

1:44:41The king, loath to give up the throne to any one of his flawed sons, decides to, what the hell, stick them all in the royal dungeon instead. Henry was one of those big dungeon guys, so there they are in the dank dark dungeon with a good sense that things are not going well for them. Forthwith, they hear footsteps. And one of the kids, Richard the Lionhearted, played by Anthony Hopkins in his screen debut, says, He's here. He'll get no satisfaction out of me. He isn't going to see me beg. It's so much better when Anthony Hopkins says that. His brother Jeffrey replies, My, you chivalric fool. as if the way one fell down mattered.

1:45:28Anthony Hopkins says, when the fall is all there is, it matters. Oh boy, when the fall is all there is, it matters. Novak says he plans to play at next year's Wimbledon. It still matters to him, and he didn't like the way he fell this year. The lion believes he can still roar, even if we're not sure he can. I'll give Ralph Waldo Emerson the last word because he had a lot of good things to say that Novak would appreciate right around now. Like, trust thyself. Every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events.

1:46:19Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. Nothing can bring you peace but yourself. It would be nice to see Novak finally at peace, wouldn't it?