Canada - Did Swiatek, Shelton just enter the US Open mix?

36:37although the feel of that match I think was rather more competitive. This was destructive tennis from Ben Shelton to defend this title, David. This is the best tennis I've ever seen from Ben Shelton all week. I think the closest to it I've seen was the US Open last year before he hurt himself and he got that really bad injury. I thought he was excellent for the first part of the Australian Open and then the weather changed and indoor tennis came around and he just didn't look quite the same potent force. And obviously he ran into the annex center, which is also a problem. But this was just next level.

37:18I mean, he won this title last year. He didn't play anything like this. He kind of won ugly there. He played fine, but he basically just scrapped his way to the title a year ago and all power to him. but this was clean devastating tennis he was hitting his backhand confidently and cleanly he was he was just waiting to pull the trigger on the forehand you know he he wasn't panicking and just trying to go for it all the time when it wasn't on um and when he was stretched out wide quite a lot of the time when when the opponent was in charge he would then unleash I can only describe as like a sort of Pete Sampras style running forehand to just end the point and that was happening a lot he was in some of the athleticism I mean when it's no it's no nothing new to talk about the athleticism of Ben Shelton but it's it's the intensity with which he was using his energy and with she was using his athleticism to kind of get to a ball even quicker to finish a rally at the net, maybe with a volley, good touch.

38:25I mean, these were straight sets, destructions. I thought Jakub Menshek was going to win this tournament, and I know he was a bit disappointed in that match against Shelton, but he just wasn't given a chance. It was unbelievable. And then I watched the highlights of the Lerner-Tien match, straight sets. Tien had been playing well, and Tien just couldn't seem to get in his head. He was trying his slice game and his angles, and when he came up with them, Shelton just said, it's all right, you have a slice back as well. And then eventually he pulled the trigger and started dominating. And Brandon Nakashima, best tennis I've ever seen from him as well this week.

39:02And I think he hit four aces in the first service game to win it to 15. But he just couldn't get to Shelton enough. And I think this was really exciting in performance and I think Shelton now needs to figure out a way to peak again for the US Open and hope that this wasn't the peak that he can't reach at the US Open but he was awesome this was the Ben Shelton I was expecting to see earlier in the year during the number threes up for grabs era when Alexander Zverev was was unconvincing and struggling with the back injury and okay we had Alcaraz and Sinner and they were apart but yeah we were constantly saying number three is up for grab folks someone come along and grab it I thought you know the most grabby of the contenders was probably Ben Shelton I had my question marks about his game but I didn't have my question marks about about the grab and and he was so disappointing during that period but maybe he was just biding his time and he's timed it just right and actually this is a better time to to grab the opportunity because Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz are both now big question marks Matt yeah he's had a strange season hasn't he because he's won four titles you know this is his fourth title of the season he's won a title on every surface and now I didn't an outdoor hard court one as well to go with an indoor hard court one so in in that sense you could say he's sort of expanded some of the limits of his game and he has done quite a lot of winning in that sense but at the big events he'd been really disappointing i think indian wells prior to this week was the only thousand event where he'd he'd won a match and he obviously had that second round exit in paris first round at wimbledon and it was really disappointing you know really disappointing Tight losses he had, but in those fields, he absolutely needed to be making it deep into the second week, I think.

41:17But I'm really impressed by the way he's bounced back from that and not let that linger. And I think he's realised that, OK, that's in the past, can't know anything about that, but it's still my time. And as much as the season is long, I still think Shelton sees this time of year, the North American hard court swing heading into the US Open as his time, his best chance to do something big in this sport. You know, last year, obviously won Canada as well, was playing so well, gets the injury at the US Open. It's like he's just trying to run it back this year without the injury. But I agree, I think he's playing better.

41:57I think he's more convincing in this tournament than he was last year. 12 sets out of 12. Only three of those sets went beyond 6-4, which to me the big thing is he's breaking serve. The number of sets he's had there which weren't particularly close is a good sign for him because he's getting into people's service games. Backhand held up, as David said. Forehand was doing damage, played big moments well, was excellent. And it just depends what the US Open looks like, right? You know, in a Grand Slam field where Sinu and Alcaraz are at their absolute best, I don't think Shelton can play like this.

42:36I don't think those players allow him to. They're too good. And I would say Shelton not in the mix. But a Grand Slam field where one of them is out and the other's in and there's a chance in one half of the draw, Shelton should absolutely be in the conversation. A Grand Slam where neither of them are convincing and we don't know what state they're going to be. We don't even know if they're even going to be in the draw. Then Shelton is in the mix at that slam. And that's kind of all he can do, I think. He has to do everything he can do and he has to not worry about Sinner and Alcarez and kind of see how it goes.

43:16He's got a bit of a Zverev problem, Shelton, hasn't he? As many lefties do. I mean, that is a tough, tough matchup. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the dark, I suppose. Don't think I didn't notice there, Matt, that you seem to slip in a new... So you had... You went not in... One scenario not in the mix, one scenario in the mix, and then there was a middle scenario. I used conversation, didn't I? You said in the conversation. Yeah, that's not a thing. I apologise for that. The problem is... Maybe it is a thing. Maybe you're making it a thing. The thing is, there's this genre of Grand Slam that we can get now.

43:54We've had it, you know, two in a row, where you get the Sinner half and you get the other half. And it kind of depends which half you're in. Because if you're in the other half, are you in the mix? No, because you've still got to get past Sinner probably in the final. But you're in the conversation because you can get to the final. Do you know what I mean? What you're saying is don't ask me if Ben Shelton is in the US Open mix because it's not a fair question. Well, until the draw comes out, and we will be talking about the draw on the US Open stage. David, I can rely on David for an outlandish prediction.

44:30Is Ben Shelton in the US Open mix? At this moment, knowing what we know, I know how many unknowns there are. I know it's a nonsense question right now, but I'm asking it. I don't think it's a nonsense question, and my answer is an emphatic yes. And I think the reason is because we don't know what we're going to get from Sinner at this tournament. We don't even know if he's going to be in it. And even if he is in it, we haven't seen him play since Wimbledon. He's got a knee injury that's kept him out of the main warm-up tournament for the US Open. So to my mind, there's no telling that he's going to be normal Yannick Sinner.

45:09And Carlos Alcraz, well, it's so long since we've seen him. How can you put any kind of confident take out there about him? Other than it'll be a hell of an achievement if he managed to do anything. I think that Shelton is right there. I mean, I do think Zverev's a problem, but I also think Zverev hasn't played very well at the US Open in recent times. Last year, he lost to Felix Ogiali-Sima, and he said, I struggled to get a feel-all tournament. I know he's playing a hell of a lot better this year, but, I mean, he lost first round in Canada. Cincinnati feels quite big for him. I think it's right there for Shelton to have the best slam of his career and maybe do this one.

46:04Well, yeah, I think he's got a really decent shot at that given where things are right now, and I realise we haven't seen the draw yet. We don't know whether his form will carry over. We don't know how he'll be physically because last year of what happened to him. But I'm very encouraged by what I saw. Should he play Cincinnati? I think probably yes. I think so. I think so. But losing mid-tournament wouldn't be the worst thing in the world? No, I mean, it's interesting. Last year when he won Toronto and he won that, as I said, with a struggle. I mean, he showed great tenacity and stamina to outlast everybody and win it.

46:49And then he played really badly, I remember, in Cincinnati. He lost a one-sided match and that felt like, okay, the guy's hit the wall. I don't feel like he's expended loads and loads of energy. He just looks fresh. He looks ready to go. Now, I realize he's still got another month of this And I realize these tournaments are longer than they used to be, but Andy Roddick did this. He went on his run in 03 and won Canada and just kind of kept on rolling and used that. And Shelton is... I don't fear for Shelton's cardiovascular fitness or his freshness or his excitement levels. Do you fear for his shoulder?

47:33I absolutely feel for his joints, you know the stress that he's putting on his body because he's such a a powerful mover um it's it's an inexact science isn't it you can't know what's the best thing to do but i think he needs to just keep on pushing and hope he gets some fortune with his body not breaking down got any nakashima takes for us today david bloody impressive bloody impressive all week long and I said to you the other day I was talking about Wayne Ferreira and I always think it's hard to know how much of an impact a coach has had but I mean come on I don't think it's coincidence that he's playing he's reaching new level I think Ferreira gets to the nub of things so quickly with a player by being so direct and blunt and I think he makes a player like Tiafa or Nakashima just not cruise, not coast, not think there's tomorrow, there's next week.

48:38I think too many of these players, I could imagine Nakashima being such a consistent performer and such a sort of level-headed guy that I think he can probably rationalize when things don't go too well and build again for next week. Ferreira's not interested in that. I think he wants he wants these guys to just stand up and take on the best in the world and believe they're going to win not just play okay um so and i think he's back it backing it up he's playing beautifully he's he's one of the most he like i haven't got stats to back this up but he comes across as one of the most accurate servers in the world i mean like it's not going the fastest stats do back it up i think yeah right and he just looks like okay well if he hits the spots he's going for you you haven't got much chance and he hits them a lot there's the the brilliant match was at the semi final when he when he played beautifully and then he sort of kind of choked at the end and yeah and just the hodda match incredibly yeah it got incredibly tight by the way hodda looked like he hit the wall i think part of that was just geez you know i've played this well to beat art a feast and looked like he was going to do it all.

49:54And then Nakashima has just kind of kept him at bay the whole match with the accuracy of serving. And at the end, oh, watching the human struggle of trying to get over the line of something you really care about, that was great from Nakashima and he got the job done. Unfortunately, he is going to have to return to this tournament next year and it is going to be in Montreal, which might be tough for him. No, Toronto. Sorry, Toronto. No, Montreal, no problem at all. He's won them over. He explained that he doesn't like. He explained multiple times in his speech. He just kept going. At first, I thought it was a, you know, a nice little semi-joking quip to win over the crowd about how much he prefers Montreal to Toronto, which is still a risky thing to do, I'd say, but, you know, fine.

50:47And then he kept saying it. Yeah. And, like, no one asked him. He just did it. It was so random and out of the blue, and he offered no explanation as to why. But the thing is, the thing with Nakashima is that there's been no Nakashima law, to my knowledge. This is it now. This is it now. He's the pissing off Toronto guy. We now have a piece of Nacoguima Law. It's his whole personality as far as I'm concerned. Which I'm thrilled about. It's nice to have something to go on for a player. And I loved Shelton's reaction. He was giggling through the speech and then when it was his turn to speak, he was like, make a speech by the way.

51:33Mate, this is a terrible PR misstep, but I am enjoying it. I mean genuinely quite excited about what the reaction will be in Toronto next year. Will they remember? Because I really don't think that will have gone down very well. There's quite a rivalry isn't there? Wanted to mention here that all four of the semi-finalists went to US College. Raphael Hodder and Brandon Akashima both went to Virginia. Virginia Tech, is that what it's called? Matt Futterman will text me and let me know. Ben Shelton went to Florida and Leonard Tien went to Southern California or Southern Cal. I don't know whether that's a nickname or its official name.

52:16But yeah, it's on the rise, isn't it? And I'm sure, you know, results like this from players that have taken that route will only boost the popularity of that route further. I think it's a great thing. you know experience some life experience some personal human development i want those two things to be possible yeah um at the same time and and it's obviously not going to be for everybody but you know it proves that it is possible even at elite elite level yeah i I mean, I look at some of the players, some of the stars, like Nadal and Alcrast, how young they came along and had great results. And I wouldn't want to change that.

53:08But there are a lot of stories I wish we could change from the past where players have played too young. And I just wonder how their lives and careers might have worked out had they not been 14, 15, 16 and become players. I just instinctively, my feeling is that it's a positive to do it this way. I was talking to Matt Futterman this week and he said he'd been talking to Hodder's coach and his coach said apparently that like Hodder worked really hard in college and like was getting really good grades. like the kind of grades that you wouldn't normally do if you're going to immediately go and make it on the pro circuit.

53:56It's almost like it's been a bit of a surprise to him how quickly it's come on the pro circuit as well. I think he was sort of planning to sort of show up for more than just a semester or two at college, you know. It sounded like he's been as surprised by this rise as maybe we have as well, which I thought was nice insight. In the doubles in Montreal, Orlando Luth and Rafael Matos became the first all-Brazilian pair to win a Masters 1000 title. They beat Marcelo Aravalo and Matej Pavic 5-7, 6-4, 10-6 in the final. It's their third title of the season, and it takes them into eighth in the race to Turin, which is very much hotting up, folks.

54:46That is it for part two from us. We will be back in part three to talk about Cincinnati, Jack Draper and injuries. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast where Cincinnati is already underway. I think Rigo Dimitrov has just lost, if my live scores are accurate. In terms of the draw, we have a top half on the women's side that features the top seed, Irina Sabalenka, Barbora Krejcikova, Madison Keyes, Alina Svitolina, Coco Goff, Ivi Jovic, Marta Kostyuk and Mira Andreeva. And down in the bottom half, we've got Linda Nozkova, Alexandra Eala, Amanda Anisimova, Jessica Begula, Iga Shvantec, Maja Vilinska and Elena Rabakina.

55:36In the men's draw, the top half has top seed Alexander Zverev, Tommy Paul, Rafal Khodar, Flavio Kaboli and his new hair, Novak Djokovic, Jakub Mensik, Arta Fice, Arta Ferry and Alex de Mino. and in the bottom half, Taylor Fritz, Joel Fonseca, Caspar Rude and his new hair, Daniel Medvedev, Ben Shelton, Lorenzo Mazzetti, Lerner Tien, Francis Tiafoe and Felix Auger-Aliassime. Who has the worst hair out of Caspar Rude and Travio Caballi? Who's made a bigger mistake with the machine there, do we think? I think Rude for sure. It's really bad, isn't it? I'm sure it's really practical. I don't think Caballi is that bad.

56:26Do you not? No. Hasn't Caballi gone... I mean, it's not politically and culturally insensitive, which is great. Hasn't he just shaved it all off? Yeah. It's a bit... It's slightly longer than, like, the Alcaraz buzz was, for example. Well, that was a clear mistake. I don't think he's that guy. Yeah, Caspar Rude is... It was a shock to the system to see that, let's put it that way. A more important question, who, men's and women's, is Cincinnati biggest for?

57:07I think on the men's side, I would say like all the guys who were in that third is up for grabs conversation who haven't grabbed it, I suppose, you know, like Medvedev, like Fritz did well in Washington, so maybe not him. Tiafoe, Orjali Asin getting back to fitness you know these guys I think if one of them could have a big week and win it we might be talking about them in the same way we've just talked about Ben Shelton for example with an open potentially US Open coming up given the state of Sinner and Alcarez I also think it's interesting that Djokovic is playing for the first time in three years he's talked about how his body felt good after Wimbledon.

58:00He said it was the best he's felt coming out of a Grand Slam in a long time. You've also got to think that he's thinking about the state of Sinnoh and Alcaraz and his eyes are widening and he's seeing another chance to potentially get 25. And I think Cincinnati, a couple of matches for Djokovic, like a couple of wins and then getting out of there and getting ready for the US Open would be perfect, I think. I don't think he really wants to like fully scrap for six matches in the in the heat going into a grand slam but if he could use Cincinnati to just brush off any rust and find his form and his timing and hit the ground running in New York I think it could be big for him as well and he was kind of outside of that third is up for grabs conversation because he sort of legacy is outside of that but he's sort of part of it as well I suppose so it's all those guys I think on the men's side it is it is an interesting tournament from that sense he's uh he's in the top half of the draw Djokovic has Tarante in his opening match Tarante won through yesterday didn't he so yeah Tarante in Djokovic's opening match David who needs a big Cincinnati oh I think Irina Sabalenka um I think she needs to just gain a little bit of confidence and feel and rhythm and she's usually so sure of herself and for once she doesn't look that and uh and that's a it's quite a quite an unsettling thing to watch let alone imagine how she's feeling about it so i mean i i still think she could not do well in Cincinnati just win a couple of matches in New York and find it she's good enough but I think if she could if she could really rediscover herself in Cincinnati I think she could come out of there with that strut and with that stride and and also just a little reminder to the rest of the locker room by the way I wasn't just talking about it at Wimbledon when I said let's see if you can back it up i i meant it because i'm going to be coming for you it's a she's on the cover of time magazine isn't she this incredible cover and that's that's like a huge thing for her and for tennis to be on the cover of time magazine that's still you know even with sort of fading legacy the fading power of legacy media that's still a big deal thing with a lot of cachet and a lot of heft but it's it's slightly weird timing isn't it because the results aren't resulting at the moment for for Sabalenka I mean she's still totally deserving of that she's the world number one tennis player but it must I don't know you want that to be coming out at a time when you're at peak swagger on and off the court I think and it It must just feel like slightly odd timing.

1:01:13But, you know, there's no bad time to be on the cover of Time magazine, I'd have thought. As we discussed, Cincinnati already underway. They've been very affected by the weather, by rain and thunderstorms. It's now incredibly hot and humid over there. First round matches have largely, I think, been played. obviously all the top seeds receiving buys through the opening round. We saw Jack Draper back in action following his loss to Terence Atman in the opening round in Montreal. This time we saw him up against Martin Lander-Luthe and it was just as tough a watch as his match in Montreal. Okay, we didn't have the on-court tiers that we had in Montreal which were obviously so upsetting and arresting to see.

1:02:07But what we had was a performance where he looked a shadow of his former self, quite frankly. He had led 5-2 in the second set and had six set points and ended up folding quite cheaply at the end of that match and losing it in straight sets. And you might have seen and read some of the quotes from him afterwards. Tomani Carial of The Guardian and Matt Futterman of The Athletic were both there to speak to him afterwards and the quotes are circulating but we wanted to play the audio or some of the audio quite frankly because honestly when we heard it we decided it was quite difficult to convey what you hear in Jack Draper's voice in this audio so we sought permission to play it we've got that permission and look it's a tough listen but here it is uh you know it's not not not my uh dna on the floor it's not who uh who i want to be and it's the same last week the way i'm i'm usually able to um fight for every ball and conduct myself um it's it's it's just missing um and you know after after last week i put in a lot of hard work um to to play a bit better this week obviously the conditions and and all the things that i'm sort of changing is very hard to manage but i think from a from just an internal point of view it's um a difficult place to be right now my body isn't isn't perfect um you know my knee and my arm but that's you know there is a part of it where i'm making changes so that's difficult on serve and um also with my my racket setup and going to something completely different hard to manage um but it's more uh yeah the emotional level that i'm able to bring isn't isn't i and it's yeah it's got to a point with me where you know it's taken probably one of my biggest qualities which is you know my my fighting spirit what are you battling are you battling doubt or concern about like further injury or I mean obviously the I think it's the fatigue and in my mind and my body from a long period of setback and struggle and kind of isolation and just trying to get back all the time and I think the the level of my fall almost from where I was last year and the amount of things I'm having to to change in my tennis and yeah the mountain seems very big.

1:04:58There's a level of chronic pain that's always with you you know that's that starts to go away but obviously the arm is linked to the elbow, it's linked to bicep tendonitis, it's linked to so many nerves around that area, so when you have an injury to that area, the whole arm is kind of lit up. It's like kind of getting like someone doing a blood what's it called, a blood pressure, you know, and your arm just and when you've got that on your playing arm, and this is my life, this is my career, you know, It's tough enough as it is to play such an intense sport and the amount we have to give to it.

1:05:45And when you've got an injury that is tough to come past and tough to understand, there's many challenges, there's many obstacles. For a normal person, they'd go and probably have six months off and it might recover and heal. but the truth is I'm playing tennis and so it's not as simple as take time off and it's going to go because it doesn't. I've tried it. Are you going to get a world card? I don't know. I don't believe I will. Hey, hang in there, Jack. Yeah, I mean, I think Matt Futterman kind of echoing what we'd all want to say to Jack off the back of hearing that, right? like hang in there somehow um it's such a tough listen isn't it david like in some ways it was a good listen in that it shed some light on the details of what's going on it was quite tricky for us last week we obviously wanted to talk about what we saw in montreal but didn't want to assume or presume too much he he's told us in quite a lot of detail there what's going on, mental, physical, the interaction of the two.

1:07:01He did also talk in that press conference. We didn't play it there, but Matt Futterman asked him, you know, what support do you have? Do you have a sports psychologist? And he said yes, he did. And, you know, he does have lots of good people around him, but you know, even with the best people around you, David, there's some things that just fucking suck. and he's experiencing one of them right now. Yeah, yeah, it really makes me sad to listen to it. I listened to the whole thing last night and I don't think I've ever heard any player sound quite like that. There were bits of Alex Dimonor, I think, after Wimbledon that sounded like that, but obviously he's not dealing with something that he doesn't really have any answers to.

1:07:55I think he can play the sport. He might not get to his goals, but he can play the sport. Jack just can't even play the sport properly anymore. I mean, it makes me want to cry just listening to him, really. And he's such a lovely fellow. And it was only just over a year ago that he contacted us. And we spent quite a lot of time with him. And he was still so buoyant and determined. as hard as the, you know, he'd have months out then, but he was so determined, you know, and he was so convinced that he was going to get back and he was going to fulfil all of his ambitions. And he just, he sounds so different to that now.

1:08:37I mean, I realise this was quite soon after a loss, but it was such a similar kind of loss to the one the week before. He was subdued on the court at the end. He looked like he didn't know what to do, though he just didn't have the energy to fight anymore you know and that's the thing it's I've had mental health struggles of my own in my dream job at the ATP when I just couldn't quite cope or I couldn't quite do it and I had to I had to end up admitting defeat and it was it was horrible I mean I came back and did the job but I had to take time off I had to sort of get away from that job and just allow myself to recover and and I don't know what he needs to do I don't I don't want to sit here and tell him what he should do but I certainly don't if he doesn't play the US Open or if he doesn't try and qualify or if he I certainly don't judge him negatively in any way if he does that I think that might be better for him to just try to release release the the drive for now you know um just because it sounds like he can't take any more just at the moment and that's okay you know given what he's given what he's put in and and how little he's managed to get back for it um whatever he decides to do i wish him the best in the world um and if he decides to take some time out and and eventually try and come back at the bottom and work his way back up and get enjoyment out of that then then great you know i i know the responses voris come on board and they've given him this big contract and these things, they've got to not be the motivation.

1:10:31They can't be the reason. He's got to do whatever's best for him to feel better. Yeah. Must be so tough for him to even contemplate taking a break though because he's feeling like, well, I've had a year's enforced break. I've had a year sitting on the sidelines watching tennis happen without me. he's just sort of ravenous to get back there. But the reality of it is soul-destroying. Hearing him talk about his loss of identity, how the last year has eroded that,

1:11:13it's incredibly tough to hear. Yeah, and you both used the word loss to describe how he sounds. and I think that's it. He's between this rock and a hard place because he's tried taking time off, that didn't work and now he seems to actually be trying a bit of a different approach and talking about it a little bit differently in terms of not actually having rest and trying to make modifications and come back that way, different serve. He's hired a biomechanist who Arthur Ferry worked with and when he had his bone bruising, he's he's using a different racket i believe not a dunlop one it's blacked out now the one he's using a more flexible racket meant to be better for the arm he's using a different string he's trying all of these things this seems to be his new approach but the thing is as well like you know he took that time off but he didn't take six months off that would have got him the protected ranking so that's gone as well and it really would be if he does take the time off now it really would be coming back from the very very bottom which might be the thing he has to do but i can also understand why he doesn't that doesn't sound very appealing and all this tennis happening without him it must just be must just be really really hard to take and accept and yeah i echo what you said just really feel for him and and hope he has the support he needs and and can get just get through this uh it's it's it's horrible to to see him going through it like this and on the subject of injuries david david mentioned in the last show that he had contacted the atp um to see you know whether they had any official or background comment on what appears to be a trend in men's tennis we did have the professional tennis players association the PTPA this week putting out some data about injury trends off the back of all the withdrawals and injuries in Toronto now I don't know the sourcing on this and you take it with however much salt you want to said that the work includes collection and analysis of injury data from more than 30 ,000 professional matches spanning the past eight years across all levels of the sport.

1:13:45And they say the evidence is clear. The season is too long. Recovery time is shrinking and injuries are occurring earlier and becoming more severe. 2025 is the first season with seven of the nine ATP Masters 1000 formats expanded to 12 days. they say that upper body injuries are up 42 percent in the first quarter of 2026 arm injuries up 112 percent match ending injuries up 53 percent and re-injuries up 55 percent and yeah look not taking all of that as definitive scientific fact but confirmation bias here that that does play into our perception and I think most people in the sports perception of a trend that it feels like is occurring.

1:14:46Now David has been in touch with the ATP. we've received the following official statement they say player health and well-being are fundamental priorities for the ATP and we recognize the concern when players are unable to compete through injury professional tennis is physically demanding and injuries are rarely attributable to a single factor every case has its own context shaped by factors including a player's medical and injury history match and training travel surface transitions recovery and playing conditions The ATP's calendar and format reforms have been developed through extensive consultation with player and tournament representatives.

1:15:21Players have the flexibility to shape their own schedules, while the calendar must serve the needs of the full player group, from those consistently competing deep into tournaments to those playing fewer matches and seeking greater opportunities to compete. We continue to monitor trends across the tour and work closely with players, tournaments and medical experts to better understand and support player health and recovery. And David, you had a background chat with ATP as well to flesh out the bones of that quite sort of corporate statement, not unexpectedly so, but yeah, what have you learned?

1:16:00Yeah, I mean, it's not surprising that the statement would sound like that and they would point to the fact that we've only been hearing this a couple of years, You know, we've got to give this a proper go and sort of see how it goes. Because this was popular amongst a lot of players at the start because it brings money in. You know, it's at a time when a lot of people made the point of how difficult it is to create a living unless you're ranked such and such. This was a way to expand that field of players who could earn that living. More players are getting to play these events. um you know uh a lot of those players though have changed their mind and i think that that that's that can't be ignored stefanos was on the actual adverts for this thing at the start and he he now says i don't believe what i said initially uh i i it's not just about money i i don't i don't like this format um you know on the subject of injuries they would they would point they would have data they they point to data that say that more top players are playing these events than in the past it doesn't feel like it i have to say and and certainly these recent injuries feel very very jarring these top is the impression you you get that they don't consider there to be a a problem a trend i don't i don't i mean look it's they said in this they said in the statement itself you know injuries are caused by a lot of different things and there isn't any uh kind of specific data that suggests like there are more people not playing these events than before

1:17:57but you're losing some of the very biggest names in the world at the moment now not every injury is caused by the formats of the tour you can't just put put every like a a a a holgeruner achilles rupture and say oh it's because there are two wheat masters maybe maybe they do factor in i don't know um i mean i think i think one of the biggest problems is that these tournaments are really quite boring because they just drag on so long you've taken away the the usp of these of these events david law's priority is not the health and well-being if uh if it's all professionals i mean look obviously it's it's it's huge but i know i'm with you david i really i'm really bothered by this line in the statement about players can control their own schedules yeah but isn't that isn't the idea that you want all the very best players in the world to compete at these events and what what you're actually saying i mean the bloody canada tournament's finishing on a thursday because you can't fit them all in what yeah i mean fuck is that seriously yeah i mean reading between the lines of that state i mean not even really between the like reading you know just filtering for jargon they're saying there isn't a problem and if they're even if there were it's not our responsibility to solve it the players can do that themselves like that's pretty that's pretty alarming we'll tell you what we have seen i kind of understand why they can't just say right now after two years of it oh yeah we're gonna change back you can't there's too much too much gone into this though it's been all voted on and there's also loads of players i think that like it because they're the lower ranked ones who are getting loads more money right who need the money the top players don't need that money funny funny though given that they're now also boycotting media things at Grand Slams because they want more money.

1:19:53Anyway, you know, so I can understand why they can't just knee-jerk, just change all this, right? They've got to give it a good go. But Matt Futterman reported a while back in The Athletic that he believes, he understands that there is kind of a revision point after I think about five years of this where something could be done if people want it to be done. I haven't had that confirmed. Can't they say we're reviewing it? I haven't had that confirmed. What's wrong with saying we might have made a mistake? If Max's reporting that, well, I think they've got to give it long enough, but I'm telling you, I'd be amazed if changes didn't happen because the market, the players, the tournaments, I think already after two years, people are not enjoying these, and there are lots of downsides.

1:20:51And you don't hear one top player anymore say, oh, I really like these two-week matches. Nobody does it. Nobody. So unless something changes in the next two or three years, that is going to be just keeping on coming at them and may get worse. I think in the end, I don't think it can change completely back, but I think it won't be like it is now. That's just my feeling. I've got no source telling me that that's the case but that's my feeling. I mean, part of the problem here is, I mean, as always, it's existential. The ATP represents the interests of parties that have completely conflicting agendas and interests.

1:21:38you know tournaments and players have conflicting interests and agendas top ranked players and lower ranked players completely different priorities agendas as you say david there are lots of players out there i'm sure think two-week masters are brilliant because they wouldn't have even been playing in them two years ago now they're playing in them and picking up their paychecks and the exposure accordingly we're not hearing from them though because they've got no platform no one cares what they have to say like and that's not that's not to say that their opinions don't have value and aren't value aren't valid but you know what yannick sinner has to say about it is obviously going to going to carry a lot more weight both with the public and with the authorities but like existentially it is it is it's just all so fucked like it's just not possible for the somehow there are seven governing bodies in the sport and yet they the atp and and others still have these tremendous unresolvable conflicts at their at their heart they both conflict with one another and they have sort of civil warfare of conflicting within themselves it just

1:23:01it's very tiring that's well said yeah look I don't have much to add really like there's so many there's so many parts of it of what could be causing injuries like there's so many different things that come into play like even even to the point of like i watch because i always do this i watch highlights of the big three playing and honestly like some of those some of those rallies are starting to look a bit slow to me if i watch like nadal and djokovic and then i'll put on the cine alcaraz highlights and i'm like oh I never thought at the time that Djokovic-Nadal was slow. It was like the best it could possibly be.

1:23:53But maybe that was like what it, that was as far as we could push the sport and the technology and everything. And now we're hitting the ball harder, but we're still expected to play as many matches as we used to play. The tournaments are longer. The balls are worse. The world's getting hotter. The conditions are harder to play in. and all of these things have come together to produce an environment that yes we're sort of no one's thinking of the big picture like that you're putting you're putting plasters over one thing and but not looking at it as a big picture and that that to me is the frustration that i have from that that kind of statement from the atp they should be they should care for the sport yeah and i i just sort of feel like not enough for the governing bodies like you you can't really get the sense that they massively do they care about themselves and it's tough there are those competing interests which you've laid out well but yeah it feels like such a long way to to get to where we want to get um but we plow on until this potential revision deadline in the in the uh atp masters 1000 contract and then see where we are.

1:25:132028? 2029 I think would be the five-year point. Oh my God. That is so far away. Based on match reporting. God. Well, 2028 is an Olympic. 2028 we've got the Olympics starting two days after Wimbledon. Yeah, I can't wait until then. Break the sport. Slop Canada into that then. what day of the week will the Canada finals be on in 2028 sweepstake Canada will start on middle Sunday at Wimbledon okay folks let's uh let's call it a day for now we'll be back on Monday uh with our next pod to talk about what's happened over the weekend in Cincinnati and any other existential drama that tennis throws at us in the meantime.

1:26:04We have a mascot for today's show. What a name. I mean, what a dog, but what a name. This is Songbird. Songbird is owned by Barbara Courtney and rescued from the streets of Taipei nine years ago and flew to San Francisco to become I'm a California girl. She's an indigenous Farmerzan mountain dog. Farmerzan. Gosh, a new dog breed. What a treat. An indigenous Farmerzan mountain dog, meaning she is super agile and smart. Songbird loved tennis balls from the first introduction, but she's also quite the snuggler. Well, that's the dream combo. Snuggler plus loves chasing tennis balls. Wow, gosh, she's like a perfectly formed dog.

1:27:03Look up dog in the dictionary. There she is. I can tell she's smart. Oh, gosh, rescued from the streets of Taipei and flown to San Francisco. What a glamorous origin story for Songbird. Absolutely amazing. Thank you, Barbara, for bringing Songbird into our lives and onto today's show. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And we'll go to Matt for some shout outs. Just hearing that Songbird likes to chase balls and snuggle reminded me that Elway had no interest in chasing the tennis balls. that Egos Fiontech was throwing for her and just wanted belly rubs.

1:27:51I really enjoyed that. I think Elway is of an age where I suspect there was a time when Elway did enjoy chasing tennis balls, but that time is no longer now. There was a great moment when he was like, no, I'll decide when the belly rubs are over. Which it was very Billie Jean-like. She's like, excuse me. More? We're not done here. Yes, Matt, sorry, shout outs First shout out is to Elway Of course, yeah And second shout out is for Catherine Koyser Oh, hello Catherine Hi Catherine Same pew Let's face it, it is the best pew And Catherine would also like to Shout out her tennis team From Creekside In Mount Pleasant, South Carolina and also wants to let us know that she went to Wimbledon this year with her husband.

1:28:53Oh, Catherine. Creekside in Mount Pleasant. That makes me think of Dawson's Creek, which is the place of my childhood dreams. And I think they filmed that in South Carolina, actually. I don't know why I'm saying I think I absolutely know they filmed that in South Carolina because I definitely tried to plan a trip there with a friend. Never quite happened. Didn't happen then, no. No, couldn't persuade the family to go on a pilgrimage, a Dawson's Creek pilgrimage to South Carolina. Still time. But that sounds lovely, Catherine, and what a name you have. Hope you enjoyed Wimbledon. We've also got Adam Booth, who is originally from Manchester, but has been living in Australia for the last 20 years.

1:29:56Now in Newcastle, New South Wales. Hello, Adam.

1:30:04Like Adam Helfand, the former ATP chief executive. Adam Pavlasek as well. Correct. who's always sort of unexpectedly Adam to me. Always a surprise that he's called Adam. Adam Walton, the sensation. Not to be confused with Darren Walton. We're not to be confused with him again. Who's a tennis journalist from Australia, one of our colleagues and a great bloke. He sends a good email to Darren. anyway he's been on the pod yes for friends good stuff yeah what else do we know about this Adam Adam has written a lot of very lovely things about the pod and which is too embarrassing to read out but know that we've seen and read and loved and appreciated Adam.

1:31:14Adam says he's been listening since the student mat days. Oh, those are a long time ago. He's a homeowner now, Adam.

1:31:26And one thing Adam does say, which is very nice, is that he thanks us for speaking out on important issues in the tennis world. He says, I learn a lot from you all, in particular when I talk to my nine year old son and 11 year old daughter about sexism and the patriarchy, which comes up surprisingly often, Adam says on the school run. I often hear Catherine's voice in my head as I think about what to tell them. Your voices are important and valued. Never stop. That's really lovely, Adam. Thank you. Appreciate that. Anyone else? Finally, we have Ted Eckers from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hello, Ted.

1:32:08Ted Perry, he says. Right, Ted. I thought we were going tindling. Ted Perry's around here somewhere. Keep telling us about Ted and I'll grab Perry. Ted, we have a very appropriate shout out this week because Ted is going to Cincinnati. He says, I'm bringing the rest of my family to their first tennis tournament in Cincinnati because it's conveniently on the way to drop our son off for his first year of college in Ohio. that's not Ted oh there's Ted alright Billy Jean Kevin's returned with Billy Jean and Ted aw what a duo they're sort of the same size it's a great duo this is where anybody who hasn't hung around for the shout outs then regrets it when they find out that Billy Jean was on

1:33:02it's like movies that put a scene at the end of the the credits isn't it like Ferris Bueller's Day Off thanks for being a friend Ted you find quite annoying when that happens

1:33:20well we're doing it so we're the prize it'd be like doing it after the music right okay I expect we'll still be listening to the shout out do you remember when we did that when that other dog was it Magnus pooed everywhere do you remember that's Billy Jean's brother you're talking about well I know but it's true isn't it did he poo live on the show I think he did didn't he I think it was during I think it was when we were doing like pandemic pods like Wimbledon Relived or something it was around that sort of time on the daily yeah I think so too it was July 2020 20 that Magnus came to stay with me and other than that there we go without that glorious week with Magnus I probably wouldn't have Billy Jean now so cheers Magnus thank you Ted for allowing me to say that trip down memory lane thank you Ted Adam and Catherine for being friends of the tennis podcast if you'd like to become a friend of the tennis podcast and get access to all of our bonus content and free listening and of course that upcoming incredibly niche episode of Tennis Relived, which we are very excited about, then the link is in our show notes.

1:34:45Folks, that's it for today, except for me to say happy birthday, Dad. I'll see you tomorrow. He stays to the end of the show. He never misses a Billie Jean cameo. So happy birthday, Dad. I'll see you tomorrow. You will see all of us on Monday when we'll be back with our next pod. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining us live tonight, if you did do that, and we'll speak to you Monday.