Dan Evans - The party's (almost) over

31:22But for a guy who wasn't, as you say, it was green, that wasn't that simple for me to do. You just hit to the guy's forehand. The needed, like, and this is not a, what's the word? This isn't me saying he was wrong in what, he was right in what he was saying, but it wasn't just wasn't that simple you know there's obviously so much going on in my head you know a lot going on on the side you know everybody knew you could feel this while you're on the court yeah yeah it was it was apparent like what was going to happen like we knew if people lost if we lost this match there was yeah like it was it was just obvious like and and and again in the airport like when we were leaving the next day like nobody was talking like it was just and there was delegates there from the lta like there always is and that was sort of like my first experience i was like geez what like you know i didn't know that people from the lta came to watch davis cup abroad like i was like president etc etc and it was yeah that was my biggest overriding feeling there was like the panic i could feel from just a lot of british people who were there the dignitaries like lta staff you could feel and i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure i'm not i could you know you could feel geez we're losing this and i mean the head you know

32:52David Law:the headlines were horrific like because this i think again the point is that roger draper had put together this incredibly expensive package of coaches and suddenly britain is in what the equivalent of division three four and they're right but that was where britain was at the time in tennis like that's how ignorant we were as a nation like we think and how arrogant are we to think we should go over to lithuania away in davis cup and just roll them over that's how arrogant we were and how clueless we were as a country at that time and that's the bottom line is you go to any away match, you look now when we go away and play Davis Cup.

33:37Who did they play? They played Norway the other week and they're celebrating it like we've won the World Cup. That's how far we've come to realise Davis Cup, when you play away, it's an absolute nails match. Regardless who you play, they played absolutely nobody in Norway. It was borderline impossible to lose, but yet we're celebrating like, and that's how far that is what how hard Davis Cup is but that's where we were as a tennis nation at the time if you look back we had the arrogance we've got some good coaches and so we'll win this we'll roll them up the ball you've still got to play the game and you look now how many upsets there are if you actually look back it wasn't that big of an upset to beat me at the time wasn't a massive thing and I can't even remember who played the other match but I know Barankis played who was a like really good player at the time so it wasn't you know if you it wasn't a great moment for British tennis but there was plenty of arrogance about it as well to think we should be over there if I look back now and beat those guys there's an away there's an away tie there's an away fans quick indoor court it wasn't as simple as they made it

34:50David Law:a couple of years later you end up back in the Davis Cup team and you had some really good results you had win over Klisan Martin Klisan very good player you had the one against Evgeny Donskoy who was 80 in the world in the next tie and that helped Britain to set up a world group playoff against Croatia which you were also at I was there too but I mean like these were the second one of those I think the first one Andy was there with you and the second one he wasn't and it was kind of like you're so low down I think he was saying if they get us to a point then I'll join back up again and that's what he did in that Croatia playoff but I mean did you have any reservations about playing again after the experience you'd had against Lithuania?

35:45I really enjoyed the team event like all the players there was nothing wrong with the team environment or the staff on the team they was all good it was just a situation we was in at that time wasn't wasn't ideal and i think as you said like it's just compounded that roger had brought in big names it made it a headline it really wasn't you know and again you go back there was plenty of arrogance about it to think we should just roll these guys so I was I was cool with it there was a new captain you know I'd seen they'd done really good work they'd won a lot of matches when I wasn't there because I wasn't good enough and yeah I started playing and yeah I really enjoyed like the start with Leon it was it was really good and I had some good results like that that's you know that's the main thing is if you can sort of add some points on the board for the team, you feel that it's all worth it.

36:54And that's what Davis Cup was always about, really just helping the team. And yeah, it's been an unbelievable sort of part of what my career and probably the best part, to be honest, those weeks were the best part.

37:11David Law:And I mean, it seemed as though that it was feeding in to what you would go on to do on the tour. I mean, the big breakthrough moment really, I think, was the US Open run you had in 2013. Yeah. You qualified, you beat Kane Ishikori, you beat Bernard Tomek. I mean, these are top players. I mean, the next year, Ishikori went and reached the final of that tournament and you lost that brilliant match against Tommy Robredo. I mean, my sense, I was commentating on these matches for BBC Radio and there was real interest in you at that time. you know could you could you sense that at all no not not like not really I you know I just I was just loving playing playing in New York like it was like I didn't have a coach at the time I was there alone I think Leon was actually helping me went at the US Open I just was there with a fitness coach who I'd sort of picked up along the way on the swing of the the challengers who was actually helping James Ward.

38:16And yeah, it just happened. And I felt it after the tournament when I was sort of 130.

38:32I don't want to say the LTA, but the men's side were pushing me a bit more then. They sort of gave me a coach. I wouldn't say we rushed, but I was I'd been there for like eight weeks we went to Croatia then I had to go to Asia and I come home from Asia I was just I didn't want to go there and I sort of said that but still then like professionalism wasn't where it should be you know like so I think Dave was a bit worried if I was home so it wasn't it wasn't an easy sort of

39:10trajectory, if you like, from 130 to... Well, I didn't get there, basically. I didn't get there until I was 25, and I was 23 then.

39:21David Law:Did you think you'd cracked it a bit after that? No, no, no. No, I didn't. I wanted to, but it was... Top 100 to me back then was still so hard. Like, it was really, like, a tough thing to get into. it wasn't like, no, no, I'll get there. It was like, no, no, when you get there, that's going to be some achievement. You know, like I wasn't... But, you know, because back then there was such a big thing on Top 100 in Britain. It was like, you know, no one had really done it apart from Andy, Greg, Tim, Martin Lee had done it. And only just. Yeah, James Ward hadn't done it by then. Yeah. It was like...

40:05And, you know, people, of course, people who work in that men's team, they want you to do it as well. It's not for them. They want it for you, you know, which that's great, but it's not all. Did you feel the pressure a bit? No, there was like, I just felt a bit rushed in that way. It was like rather than, you know, just set a plan out. and there's no like I didn't look back and have any hard feelings but it is what it was and then it become a thing like oh god and then I dropped a bit and then

40:45David Law:a year and a half later you're 772 in the world that's a bit so what I mean Tim Hemman had a pop at you around about then as well I think you know what I obviously had a bit of money then and I hadn't had much I obviously drank too much did whatever else went out a lot but that was you know I was sharing what I had like I loved it like it was with my mates it wasn't so you were going out with your mates and you were picking up the tab and like of course like no not just picking up but I was sharing like I wanted the good times with them and like it wasn't we didn't have the chance before you know like were you finding it a bit hard to be like right Dan Evans professional tennis player this is what you have to do all the time and you're not you know you're not supposed to do any of this i didn't i found it hard to be professional that that was that was hard i found it hard to be professional day in day there's no doubt about that and i was only 23 still still pretty young and then yeah and then probably you know after that it becomes becomes a bit of a habit you stop training i think i had a bit of like a knee issue but i sort of probably used that a bit too much you know and then yeah and then you get you just drop like if you don't play tennis you drop that's that's the bottom line i mean it's the the fluctuations in your ranking are incredible when you look at them if you actually look at the sort of the graph over the years.

42:23David Law:I mean, I've not seen too many like that. Ernest Goulbis is one who's had a few like that, but not many. 2016, you win 29 out of 32 matches and you actually end that year 66 in the world. So you've gone from 772 in the world, you've gone 130 at the end of 2013 to 772 mid-2015, back into 66 in the world at the end of 2016. So, I mean, you're basically proving that when you're playing often, the level's there. Is there a moment that something clicked there? I was, again, I was really lucky that in America I was there alone and I made the semis, I think, of Knoxville Challenger and Liam Brody was there with Mark Hilton and dare I say it, they was having a few issues, I think.

43:22And they left on the semis day and I'd known Hilton, Hilton coached me before and I ended up winning that week and it was right at the end of the season. Anyway, they split and then I think Leon said to me, would you like to try with Hilton? and Hilts lived in Nottingham I didn't want to be down in London and so Hilts drove every day from Nottingham to to Prairie and we practiced and there was just one condition that we practiced on Saturday that was it and he said like listen I don't care what time it is but we practice on the Saturday like six days a week you're not five days a week and I still sit here today and that is, and I'm sure that extra day got me to top 100 luck.

44:15That is what got me there. And we did it. Of course, there were still some days where I didn't turn up. There'd be the odd phone call a bit too late into the night where I can't come tomorrow. Yeah, I've got carried away or whatever. But...

44:36David Law:What was Hilt's way of handling you? well he got a day off no no we had chats about it and it was like if it come too and far between it was like come on but yeah we travelled loads yeah we just basically packed the suitcase and went and that was that and yeah if we was home we practised Saturday every it didn't matter what it was when it was 7 till 9 whatever it was yeah we did that and that's it really sort of like set me onto a good sort of bit of momentum and and how to like I was training then six days a week and then you know you eliminate Friday night you've got to be practicing Saturday you know you become and that's when I become a professional like proper professional I would say it's like putting a routine in that you then can't the temptations are removed a bit aren't they yeah and that that was like that's when I really learned like I started traveling with fitness I really invested in like my own career then and I was paying hilts myself I was paying the fitness and that's what really changed like the my career I think that's when I you know I think yeah that just sort of just pushed me like paying your own bills it makes things a lot different to somebody else picking up the tab and I think that's a big thing now obviously a lot of people are getting their tabs picked up you think that's a problem?

46:19yeah I think we're desperate for players but I'm not sure all players are doing the correct things as I wasn't and I lost that you know Leon was hard on me he was great for me but

46:36David Law:and that's that's what I think got me there do you tell young players do you ever tell them about your experiences no I mean unless I'm asked but it's not it's not for me to tell them like they've yeah it's times have changed you know like I loved it when Andy would speak to me Tim would speak to me like, but the young lads and the young girls, it's not like that anymore. They're all into themselves. The coaches are into themselves. It's very different now. Interesting. So, I mean, actually, in that spell, you mentioned you had your good US Open run in 2030. You had another one in 2016. You beat Zverev along the way.

47:21David Law:I mean, he was young, but he was a hell of a talent. and then you had match point in the third round against Stan Wawrinka. Yeah. And he goes and wins the tournament after that. Do you, I mean, I don't know when, you don't strike me as a regrets kind of person too much about moments, but do you have, is there any that stick out and you think, oh, imagine if I'd have won that one, that match point? Yeah. The 2013, the Rubrido match, like, you know, I was younger I was like but again like I wasn't really professional I didn't do the totally the right things in that US Open you know like I didn't know so that that was it's funny that's come up because I was saying that to somebody the other day that you never know when your best chance is and that was my best chance like he then beat Federer Federer was I think hurt it was like you know that could easily be quarter finals before you know it like that was sort of everybody goes on about the Stan one but I don't think that I was in the point in the match points I can't remember but I don't regret losing to Stan I don't remember it being a big opportunity I don't remember I had a short ball and I didn't take it on or anything like that so it couldn't have been but yeah it's all those all those matches or what you lose and playing the slams they're just they're so good at the time but you know when you go back and shut the door of the hotel that night it's it's dead silence and you want that's why you then go training a week later or two weeks you don't you want the the atmosphere again you know it's like that's what you play for it's not the points or the money like it's when you're out there in that moment it's like that's you can't you can't explain that to anyone and you can't buy that, it's just impossible to buy.

49:24And that's what... I think sometimes we... Players especially forget that, don't enjoy it. Like, when they're out there, sometimes you're just beating a good match. And I was against Stan. I remember he was just a bit better in the big points, but I'll never forget the atmosphere. It was nuts out there. I can't tell anybody how that feels because they just never know. and that's that's what part of the job you you love isn't it yeah um so i mean after that you

50:00David Law:you start 2017 incredibly well yeah you you i always remember being in australia you beat marion cilic you beat bernard tomic again i remember you having a better back and forth with him over his dad um you reached the last 16 i mean this is a great run um i remember a press comments you did um when you were talking about kevin peterson and running into him in a casino didn't he blow you off when you tried to get a photo yeah i wasn't it was walking out of a chinese in the casino like in the complex and yeah he he obviously just walked straight past me there when i asked for an order a picture actually as you know yeah um but you know so this is fourth round and suddenly you're in the top 50 in the world you know i mean basically you've made it you're playing all the biggest tournaments in the world you're earning good money and i mean i think as you would later prove when you if you're good enough and you get inside the top 50 you can kind of stay there with winning a certain number of matches can't you you know and that's what you did i mean you had some good weeks some not so good weeks but you you became a top 50 player in the world but you've already done that in 2017 and then this is what your wikipedia says evans was banned from playing professional tennis due to testing positive for cocaine in april 2017 evans claims that he took a relatively small amount of cocaine out of competition but but that some permitted medication he was taking was then contaminated by the cocaine because he accidentally put the leftover cocaine in the pocket of his washback thus testing positive in competition.

51:41David Law:Evans was eligible to return to the professional circuit on 24th April 2018, having completed a one year ban. What happened? Yeah, I mean exactly what it said. Yeah, as I said, I lived Why? I mean, again, you've made it, Dan. You've made it. You've all this journey going down to 700 in the world. Bans. you know going away to Loughbret doing all this stuff winning big matches getting inside the world's top 50 you've made it why you must have known that that was a possibility no I mean listen that wasn't of course that wasn't like the first incident of that as I said it was you know I wasn't professional at that point I was professional and I went to an event and all of that stuff had stopped, the drinking, everything, pretty much.

52:43And yeah, I made a mistake. I took, obviously took it. And yeah, and I was, you can't call yourself unlucky, but I went to a tournament a few days later and yeah, I tested and I tested positive. And that's all there was to it, really. It was, yeah, it's just, it's as it writes. it's not, what's the word, it's not, it's obviously regrettable, but that's what it is, isn't it? That's what happened. You can't look back and think, what if it happened? I'm not going to blame, a lot of people tried to blame other people for that. people you're around, but that's an easy way out, isn't it? Like, to blame your mates.

53:41Nobody made me do it. Nobody, you know, a lot of people at the time was like, remove yourself from these people. But it was nothing like that. It was on me, you know, and that was the worst part about it, is people were trying to blame other people about it, and it wasn't, you know, they were having a go at me for who I was hanging around with, and it was nothing to do with that. And then, obviously, your parents is the hardest one, but...

54:12David Law:What was that... I mean, where were you when you had to have that conversation, and what was that like? Well, I just told my dad, you know. By this point, you know, I was an adult, you know. I was 25. I just went in the house and told him. It was a conversation I had, and, yeah. But there's... What did he say? he carried on pressure washing the patio after I told him that's what he did he didn't say a word and then sort of come in the house but there's so much it's hard to explain there's so much which goes into a drugs case that's not just black and white I've been banned you're not banned straight away you're suspended you don't know how long so it wasn't like listen I've been banned for a year I need to tell you it was like listen this has happened I don't know how long it's going to be it was there was there was other there was you know I's to duck, T's to cross you know it wasn't but it was bad I knew it was bad straight away were you scared?

55:28no I'm not I wasn't scared I was I was I knew I was in trouble, but I wasn't. Tennis isn't life. That's one thing.

55:41David Law:But you've cracked it. You're making all this money. Money, being on the telly, doesn't do it for me. My family, my mates do it for me. That was never... My motivator was never being famous. I've never wanted to be famous. I've never wanted to... It wasn't a, you know, like some people's life is about their image, Instagram, money, that's never, I just loved winning, that was it. It wasn't, so I wasn't, I wasn't scared about it, I was just, I was more worried for other people than myself. It wasn't. Which people? Like my mum and dad, like, obviously, you know, they wasn't, I think dad had retired, you know, like it was, So, you know, when you, I was making a lot, plenty of money, so I was, you know, I had other dependents at that point.

56:37It wasn't just me. That was the worst thing. But yeah, it was, like, your parents are not bothered about that stuff in the end. They're bothered about their son, do you know what I mean? They're not, that was the biggest thing. you know they're not bothered if I took drugs okay everybody shouldn't be taking drugs they're bothered about their son as a person at the end of it all and then once the cloud of red mist if they got it when it was like right how's things going to carry on yeah and I'd obviously just I'd just started you know with with Alia at that point so it wasn't an easy sort of

57:23David Law:this is your wife yeah it wasn't an easy sort of in for her at the time like it was like six months in so I was like here we go like but everybody stuck by me my mates yeah and it you know I would never want my child if I to do what I did but you know everybody would react the same as my parents did it's not about tennis at the end of it. There's obviously other scarring from failing a drugs test. It was more than tennis in the end. It wasn't about tennis.

58:05Obviously, the obvious question is, have you got a problem with that sort of stuff? That was an obvious question everybody started asking. I was like, jeez, that isn't the issue. It was a mistake. and then then once that blows over you've got again i'll say it's just it's just sun at the end of the day it's not and and my mates were good everybody was good like it was it was all fine i

58:28David Law:remember um i remember when when you announced it we were at that press conference in the in the hotel in london i i came to it um and then you you sort of just gave a statement and then you left that was something like I regret I did like I was asked to do that and I think I was ill advised to do that in my opinion because I just don't think I should have done it a statement would have done it like I was yeah like it just wasn't it was more it wasn't such a big thing people were making it like a massive thing it was a big thing but it wasn't like, I wasn't that big of a name to be going up and doing a press conference about it.

59:16Just, it was, you know, I remember walking into the room, I was like, what am I doing here?

59:23David Law:But weren't you like the British number two? Yeah, but being the British number two doesn't mean anything. You just failed the drugs test, you're banned. Yeah, but it's not, yeah, I get I'm banned, but what you don't, I've got in my right to say, no, I don't need to talk to anybody. but I was asked to do it I was sort of advised to do it okay it's fronting up but I just don't think it was that necessary at the time it wasn't you know I could have if you think about I could have released a statement and moved on Wimbledon was coming it wouldn't have been spoke about but that sound bite I remember it it was all over the BBC news like me saying what I failed it just didn't in the end it didn't sit well with me some people might disagree or agree but in the end I just thought it was a bit of a PR thing for a few other people rather than You disappeared pretty much certainly from view and I don't think you were allowed to use any facilities, any tennis facilities or any coaching what did you do for the next year?

1:00:38Not a lot, really. Yeah, just lived. Lived normal life.

1:00:45David Law:I said earlier, were you scared? Were you worried that maybe you weren't going to get back to where you were? Not really. My biggest worry was if I would get the help to get back up. Because if you're remembering that, I don't really know what happened. But do you remember the ITF brought out ITF rankings? Yeah. And I didn't have an ITF, obviously, and I didn't have an ATP ranking. So I was like, well, when I started to get back, I was like, I'm going to need some help. And it wasn't forthcoming at the start, and I had to have a few stern conversations with a few people about what I'd done for them in Davis Cup, in other things.

1:01:30And Simon Timpson, I think, was the man at the time. and I remember, and I don't care who he works for now, I was sat with him and he looked at me and he said, you've got no chance, mate, of getting back up there. He put me in a bracket with two other players and I won't name the other two players. And I said, no, no, because I asked for some help in coach and he was at the NCL and never got it. He said, no, no, this isn't going to work for you. We're not going to support you. I'll put you in this same sort of bracket as these other two players. one was an older player and one was a lady actually and the lady's still playing and I looked at him and I said okay, and I said well in three months Simon you'll be gone from this job and this is just a stepping stone so don't worry about it and in three months he was gone so that was the sort of stuff that was more of the the stuff I had to put up with people who didn't know the sport sort of not helping very much and then again you know credit where credit's due leon coughed up the wild cards uh and i started doing all right you know like but to to qualies this is by the way to challenges so and then over the grass i did that was like march i think i come back was that

1:02:50David Law:right or april yeah you came back in april 2018 um one year after the failed test yeah i mean i I think, was there a bit of relief that it was one year? Because there was some talk about it being two at one time. Yeah, yeah and no. Like, I was, obviously now I was massively hard done by, by how it was all, how the recreational drug thing worked. In tennis now, I think, well, I had actually, a solicitor or a lawyer rang me like years after, to inform me I think it was three months now for recreational drug in tennis I don't know if that's right but it was a random call I don't know how he even got my number and uh yes just it was weird and I was like okay that was the end of the conversation but yeah at the time it was a bit yeah geez if it's two years I was in a bit of trouble I think and then yeah just I think I did pretty good over the grass that year you got you you come back in a first round qualifying match in glasgow yeah you played ed cory yeah um and you won a couple of matches i mean you know to give an idea of the difference in your world at this point you you won 885 euros for that tournament and you know 18 months earlier you'd won 100 grand for reaching the fourth round of the australian open so you know your world's a bit different when you when you arrived to to glasgow for that first match can you remember anybody's reaction to you like i mean that was like like when i was off i had like it was more a bit about like what people were gonna like at that time i don't think anybody had ever been banned for for what i'd been banned for so it was a bit how they would react because it wasn't like...

1:04:53And people were sort of insinuating that this could have helped me, a lot of people. And I was like, trust me, there's zero chance that can help you play tennis. And that was sort of the, when I was off, I was thinking, do they think I was cheating? And like, that was more...

1:05:12David Law:Okay, so people were wondering whether it was performance enhancing. A lot of people were sort of insinuating a bit of that. and obviously at that point Twitter was sort of coming into itself and obviously I was bored, I'd see stuff, I was getting tweeted and that was more of the... But everybody was pretty good, to be honest. I had a few run-ins with a few players, but no one to really write home about.

1:05:43Do you think...

1:05:45David Law:You say people were insinuating that maybe it helped you in a performance enhancing way obviously obviously you're saying not but do you think it maybe helped you in terms of this is the moment the penny drops because i look at your career thereafter you got yourself back inside the top 50 a year and a half after this return and you stayed there for four and a half years i mean like you are a proper professional then yeah like doing when i I was 25 with hilts. I was a proper professional. I obviously made a massive mistake. But after that, that is your last chance. I've not vowed, that's nonsense.

1:06:33But I'd said to myself, this is it. If you don't get there, but give everything you've got to get back and see how you go. And again, I had an unbelievable help. Dave Falgate was unbelievable. He got me back there.

1:06:54So, yeah, like, I just... I got back there, but even when I started back, I felt it wasn't, like, such a big jump, like, if that makes sense. Like, I think I lost to Chardy in the final or semi-final of Serbiton, and I was like, I should have won that. And he was maybe 50, 60, and he'd been playing well, and I was like, and people were saying, no, I have some perspective, and I was like, no, no, no, that's not right what you're saying. I'm right here. I probably could have won that match. And then I lost in the final to Dimonor, I think, in Nottingham, and I played really well that week. And I think I made quarters of Queen's the week after, and I played again, or first, I can't remember, But I won a match or two.

1:07:46And I played, like, tennis was like, I was playing really good then. And I felt like I'm doing all right. But then you go on the hard court. I hadn't done a bunch of fitness because I was playing, you know, on the grasses. And then you sort of move to a real surface, you know, like, one, you've got to be really fit and more people can play. and then I think the summer wasn't a great summer I don't think I was in qualies of the US I think I won Vancouver but I was like I was still in between being back in the top 100 or qualies and the summer sort of was quite difficult I didn't do that great but then I think I had a good end to the year and I did good in Australia I think I qualified and then I felt I was pretty much back up and running

1:08:40David Law:and like we were saying, once you get inside that top 50 and you're in the main tour events where there's a lot of points, you haven't got to win quite as many matches to stay there well that's the thing, you're getting obviously more bang for your buck with a win will get you 50 points where you've got to win 5 in a challenger or whatever it was and that was you know, when I was getting older as well it wasn't so easy to keep winning a bunch of matches but look I'm pleased to say we've reached the end of the period of your Wikipedia page where it's all doom and gloom and there's the ups and downs have gone and you're you're now you're now having a really great run of results yeah win some lose some but you've also I mean there's some of these things here you beat Novak Djokovic in Monte Carlo you know you you you played a really fun match against Roger Federer at the Australian Open you you played Carlos Alcaraz a few times and you won a set against him.

1:09:34David Law:You played Yannick Sinner, you were set up and in a tiebreak against him. I mean, these are amazing moments, aren't they? I always remember you coming off after beating Djokovic and saying you were slightly pissed off about him keeping you waiting before you went on and it helped you. Do you remember much about that? Yeah, like it's one of my pet peeves with the better players is they like to be late a lot to the call for the match. It's like some ego thing, which, you know, if you're late, it's just rude, isn't it? So, but that was all that was about. But to be honest, all of the guys you mentioned have been, we're all good, like on court.

1:10:23Yeah, I enjoyed playing all of them. It was, you know, not a pleasure. It sounds like I was on there for, you know, not to win but it's there i think what people don't understand is or people don't like to say it but it's the truth is that when you're 30 in the world you don't win a bunch or 40 in the world you don't and playing the world number one or world number two or rafa it's it's your day out like that is the fact like i don't care what you what anybody says of course you're going on the court to win but the bottom line is you're probably not so you've got to enjoy that moment to play him or fed or whoever like i think i knew my my place on the chessboard pretty pretty well and i think i i took those moments in more than some probably did i was gonna say i mean when

1:11:15David Law:you're playing federer and you you had two two tiebreaker sets i remember in australia yeah i I mean, people were so into that match because I guess the style you play. And even Federer, I think, said it's almost like playing me. Yeah. You know, which, did you, can you have any moments in there? I mean, this is a guy you would have watched when you were coming up, when you think, oh my God, I'm playing Roger Federer and I'm doing these shows. Not really, like, again, like, I just, I took them for how they were, like, with me. Like, I spent a bit of time around Roger training and practicing. well he took a bit of a he took a shine to you didn't he he invited you just a normal fella he wasn't walking around in gold slippers or a gold plated car he turned up yeah he was a normal fella and that's how I took him on the court I worked my nuts off and tried as hard as I could and that was it I wasn't scared to say come on against him or but I was never rude to those guys or people on the court full stop but I just enjoyed my games against them it was like I tried and I didn't beat it I beat one of them that was it and it was just a good day out I enjoyed it and I remember it as that but I enjoyed playing all of them like it wasn't that's what you play tennis for Well, that's what I think people don't get, is if you're 50 or 30, you don't get to play on the top courts every week.

1:12:56I could make semifinals of a tournament and not play on the centre court of a tournament. That's not the fact, but people think what they see on tennis TV, Sky Sports, but it's not that. There's two other courts out there where a man and his dog might be watching, but that is the fact of it. And so when you get your chance to play in front of those guys, those guys on the big court, you've got to go out there, enjoy it. There's no point in, it's not easier said than done, but freezing and not taking your chance. That's your chance to perform. It's your chance to show everyone what you've got.

1:13:33David Law:I mean, I realise they're all greats and styles make matches, but which one of them did you find the hardest?

1:13:44I get asked this so much. I think the one you couldn't beat when he was on or you didn't get a match was Roger. Like, you just didn't play tennis. It was like, the ball's there, it's gone past you, he's at the net. That was... But if you were playing good, and, like, I played Djokovic this year in Wimbledon or last year in Wimbledon, and I was playing good and I didn't stand... And I was playing really good and he was just way better and it was like God so that was like it was different and then you play Rafa and he's just relentless so it's like I think that's what makes them all so good they're all so different to each other and like styles make fights don't they you I remember

1:14:34David Law:when you were playing Francis Tiafoe in Vienna in late 2023 and you 4-1 up and your calf wins yeah and it was quite shocking to watch it at the time I think you were quite shocked that it happened to you, I don't think anybody who's done the calf I think could understand that, looking back do you think that that was kind of the beginning of the end for you yeah that was like really difficult because I didn't I sort of did my soleus as well which is like that retracted and my calf went so it was like nip and took if I needed an operation and that took forever and I was playing really good then.

1:15:20Yeah, it was probably the best tennis I'd played through the summer and then the Davis Cup in Manchester I was playing, just everything was good and then obviously that happened and it just took forever and I still have the problem now. That's what's still sort of been niggling away and sort of got back and obviously my ranking drop played the Olympics and I was like, you know, like, need one more push, really try it and then I broke my wrists, sort of last year in China, was sort of like, God and for someone who had never been injured, really, it was like come on, like two in a row here so that was That was like sort of the nail in the coffin, I think.

1:16:11The wrist was... I mean, breaking your wrist on it. I know it was my left wrist, but you can't do anything. It was like... I felt I was really playing good again then. So that was like... I sort of lost a bit of motivation then. And, you know, I didn't... I couldn't really do much. It was just... That was pretty difficult. I thought the wrist was probably like the... That was probably what sort of said, like, come on, this or that's that. If you can get through to Wimbledon, if you can keep going and the body holds up and, you know, obviously this year I'll need a wild card to Wimbledon. If they give me one, you know, I'll finish there.

1:16:54But if not, it won't be. And that was sort of my plan was to get through to there and try and get, like I said you know not have a day out but you know embrace it a few more times try and get a few wins and yeah say bye

1:17:11David Law:you mentioned that Olympics run yeah I think a lot of people that saw that will maybe have that as one of the memories of you as a player what was it like for you because I mean you had all those matches where you were match points down you're alongside Andy it's his farewell that was probably like probably the best part I'd say probably one of the best moments of my career the Olympics it was something I was a bit ignorant to before with tennis in the Olympics because you you didn't play them before I didn't play two of them yeah I was actually going to play the one in Tokyo but I got COVID and I didn't play in Rio but I wish now I had uh yeah but definitely the The time in Paris was a career highlight by miles.

1:18:05The atmosphere was different. There wasn't tennis fans, if that makes sense. It was sports fans who didn't understand so much of tennis went to what you're cheering for, if that makes sense. They were just supporting Britain or Belgium or USA. and obviously Andy's, you get more support when you're with Andy, you know, he's not just a British sporting icon, he's a, you know, world-renowned athlete and that was, yeah, playing with him was, winning the two matches were something that were mental, yeah, it was amazing, yeah.

1:18:45David Law:What was he like to be around at that time? And obviously I know you've known him for many years, but that is an incredibly intimate thing to be on the court with a guy who has given so much to the sport. And he was, unlike you, he seemed to be finding it quite hard to stop, really. Like, he seemed as though it was hurting him to have to think. I think he's at peace now. We had a great interview with him last year, and he seems in a good place now. But he was struggling for years, wasn't he, to try to keep going. and there you are, the only person on the court on your side. I think the weirdest thing about that is every day was close to his last one, which is like, we were sharing the same physio that week because that was our team.

1:19:40He'd be like, he's done this for years. It was a bit eerie, like this might be the last time he ever gets, you know, strapped or, and it was like, God, you're going to be the one going out with him. You know, it was like, I don't know, it was a bit weird that he couldn't then play again, you know, like it was like, yeah. And then after when we lost, it was, yeah, it was like, I don't know. It was, we all sort of just went and sat in like the, the, the, the caf where we all eat at rolling grass but it's not a caf for the Olympics it was just like a a seating area so we sort of just sat there and just like everybody just sort of said well done and it was like that's over it was it was the it was strange really like that he couldn't play tennis like I'm saying couldn't play but didn't but that was going to be it yeah and it was like yeah and like yeah it was it was It was hard.

1:20:42It took a lot after to sort of get back into normal routine. It was like the Olympic village, all of the... It was a bit like I imagined being in the Big Brother house. You've got to get back into the normal world. But yeah, I play in those matches with him. It was probably the best part of my career.

1:21:06David Law:What's he like on court to be a doubles partner with? I mean like I'm thinking I know what he's like as a player but as a bloke what's he like with the little chats you've got to have he was so positive like the whole time and like he would say sorry a lot and I'd be like what are you saying sorry for here you know like you're sort of setting us up a lot of the match and then he'd miss one and he'd say stop saying sorry was a bit of like but yeah a few times you know because you're playing with him it doesn't mean you can't help him is sort of what I took from it you know sometimes you'd get a bit frustrated and I'd be like it's alright next point and like you think to yourself jeez what are you saying here you're saying this to Andy and he's not shy coming forwards to tell someone to be quiet is he so yeah no it was he was an amazing partner to be honest and just how we won the matches, it ended up being unbelievable, yeah.

1:22:12And yeah, I was just thinking back, it's incredible how we won and how it all happened. And he was unbelievably grateful as well, which that's something I'll never forget, yeah.

1:22:23David Law:I was going to say, has it given you a bit of a bond? Do you think that? No, I mean, I don't know. We spoke a lot anyway, but he sent me a nice note at the end and that's, I'd say he was, he was happy that I was on the court. You went to his retirement party, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, we went, we went to his retirement party, which was, was an amazing, yeah, party, evening. So yeah, it was, it was pretty good. Good night? It was for me, yeah. A few of us had had a few too many, well, not too many, but had a few drinks, yeah. you did carry on playing as a singles player you had that incredible US Open match against Hashinov longest US Open match in history were you aware that it was getting silly at the time?

1:23:17no because I was obviously four love down

1:23:21David Law:four love down deciding yeah and I was just trying to hang in really but he was I could sort of see he was you know flagging a bit but yeah I didn't know and then when I actually got back to the locker or when I did the interview with uh I think it was Carthy did my interview she actually told me that it was and you know by by then I was I knew I'd been on a long match and I just wanted to get off the court and get out of there so it was um it was only until like the next like the evening and stuff you're seeing stuff online and yeah had like however many notifications or whatever and just yeah sort of but again like you're in the tournament still so like you almost by the end you're almost thinking well you shut up about yesterday like you know like no because you've got to play then like we can talk about this after the tournament yeah because you still you know tennis any tennis player tell you like you don't think about what you've just done you look ahead and then yeah so it was like it was good but it was it was a in the end I won the next match but it was a bit of a distraction you know like I didn't I didn't really want like I said at the start I didn't really want to be in that sort of limelight or I just wanted to win my next match you know so it was it was difficult but it was it was something I'm obviously pretty proud of you you played a couple of matches last year won some matches at Queensland Eastbourne I remember you getting quite emotional in the interviews afterwards why was that?

1:25:07well I just like I'd obviously been through like just the injury and stuff and I just wasn't sure if I was going to be able to to keep winning on the tour you know and I was obviously playing on the Challenger Tour I was trying to get back and you know I'd obviously say not I wasn't fortunate to get wild cards into Queens and Eastbourne but there was other options I'd imagine and other people probably saying you know he's 35 should he be getting one you know his rankings is where it is and when like I said like it it's just all for me winning a tennis match and then sitting on the bike after is like the two best things you can do as a professional and you speak to your team after you've won they're like moments when you stop playing you never get back and that's like you know I was never like fussed about you know walking out into the middle of the court saying thanks to the crowd that didn't really do it for me you know I know people love to take it in and you know during the match really like did it for me and then like playing winning points the reaction and then after with your team was the thing which sort of you know ticked my boxes you know like it was that's what it's about the eight minutes on the bike after you think like all the stress not stress that's the wrong word but all of like the pressure cooker of being out there all the decisions you've had to make and all the bad ones, all the good ones.

1:26:53You can talk about with your team, it's like, that's like the best thing about the tennis year.

1:27:01David Law:You've had a few things to say about doubles over the years. Yeah. 2019, you said, Jamie Murray thinks we should be celebrating six pairs of doubles players inside the main draw of a Grand Slam. So we're celebrating people who didn't make it at singles and people who didn't have the attitude to work hard enough to make it in the singles game. um jamie replied they're lazy comments to make it's ill-informed and dumb really to question the reason that we're on the double story is because we don't work hard enough as the single guys it's just total nonsense i've been playing the tour since 07 traveling the world working my off uh stay at the top of the game and making a living for myself to come from someone who really hasn't applied himself as much as he should and really has made a hash of his career with his decision making um i imagine you've you sorted that out quite soon afterwards yeah i mean again whenever you make comments about about a sport or or a part of a sport certain people might take it personally but it wasn't a personal attack on anybody it was just that was my opinion and I stand by a lot of what I said is yeah it was again it's all got to be in context it was against what we're celebrating as singles to what we celebrate the doubles and the doubles guys have done unbelievably well I'll be the first to take my hat off one of my best friends is Neil Skrupski I've got no issues with the doubles guys but first and foremost we need to start getting singles guys in the top 100 not number one in the world at doubles that's a great achievement it really is and they make a great living for themselves now but as I always say you play single we all grew up to be singles players and they make an amazing living after but they didn't start playing doubles they started playing singles and that was all my the comments about they don't work hard enough probably wasn't wasn't correctly in part but you know maybe some of them after their singles career where they wasn't working so hard then decided to work very hard at doubles would probably be more the truth I mean you just said yourself they make very good livings they do yeah and I know you You fancy yourself as a doubles player, right?

1:29:37David Law:You think you should have been picked in Davis Cup doubles teams at times.

1:29:45David Law:Why don't you become a doubles player now? Because I don't want to live that life. I don't want to be last on. I don't want to wait around all day. That isn't what I want to do. It isn't for me. But, and I'll say this to Jamie Murray, it's funny that me and Jamie had this this sort of two and fourth because Jamie Murray is the best doubles player this country has ever produced never mind his record whoever you like to say Julian Cash Lloyd Glasswell whoever whoever Jamie Murray is the best doubles player because how I rate a doubles player is what they can do at Davis Cup in front of 15 ,000, 10 ,000 4 ,000 he did it and that is why when he stopped I was in my opinion the next best option not Joe Salisbury not Neil well Neil was my partner Neil and Jamie were unbelievable at doubles at Davis Cup they they just got it and in Davis Cup you have to get it and that is why I had the opinions what do you mean get it you have to be able to play for your country that is how you are judged in my book as a double play.

1:31:01David Law:Like perform when the pressure's on. Not on the tour because half the time on the tour, it's not, and they will think differently, of course, but how I judge a good doubles player is how they play in Davis Cup. And that is why, you know, for me, as I said, it's strange, not strange, but it's ironic that Jamie went back at me because I actually think he is the best one we've ever had because of the Davis Cup and how he performed. I did Davies cut and that's how I sort of value my doubles players and that's why I put myself forward and I put myself forward many times but I never got picked but when I did it was in the toughest of conditions and I duly come forward and played in Columbia in altitude but that's that's what you do for your country isn't it did you ever talk to Jeremy like separately about any of this i get no no i've never like me and jamie get on unbelievably well like we're always joking around about stuff but yeah no never had the conversation how um i mean you've you've said you said what like you can't replace the yeah the moment on the court and the moment with your team afterward what so what does the future hold for you because you've got hopefully a lot living to do not not replace i think like replace is the wrong word like i said at the start it's not like tennis is just going to be different for me like i love watching tennis i love yeah i love everything about tennis it's but it's uh i think a lot if you if you see yourself if you see yourself helping people which i like to think people think i was quite generous in life throughout my career I like to help like it's not some people are not that way inclined which is perfectly fine they they're more about themselves looking after I've never been that way I've always wanted to you know sort of be around people help people like if I'm asked I'll give my opinion and I think that's what coaching is about if or coaching or whatever it may be is about I I look forward to it, but if that's what I'd like to do at the minute, but that can change pretty quickly.

1:33:30You know, like, you know, I really enjoy being at home. I might end up being a club coach and does his hours from 7 till 12 and plays golf in the afternoon. It doesn't mean because you've been a good tennis player you have to be a performance coach or, I hate that word, performance coach, but you know what I mean, like a coach on the tour. Or, you know, for the time being, it's going to be after Wimbledon, it's going to be helping Henry Searle try and crack the top 100. But at some point, you know, I'll need a rest. And that's just normal.

1:34:05David Law:Well, that's it because, I mean, you know, coaching is travelling, isn't it? Yeah. And you've done a lot of that. Yeah. Do you think he could reach the top 100? Do you think that that is it? I think he's got the game, yeah. but I'm lucky like the last year has not been so much travelling you know it's been it's been stop start with you know various things and that's that's why I sort of you know the last month and well last few weeks and then hopefully next month or two I'll give everything I've got and try and get myself into a decent position and and finish off well but you know if I'm not in a position to play I won't I won't play you know yeah Just on the coaching again, I mean, could you imagine yourself in the future having, like, either being on the tour with a player and would that give you a buzz?

1:34:58David Law:Would that be what you'd like? Or would you rather have, I don't know, some sort of academy or something like that that is yours? What is it you want? What do you think you'll want? I think helping the British guys get to where they should be is more of a motivation, if that makes sense. Do you think there are things that you would suggest or could offer that maybe aren't being done at the moment that would get them to where they, inverted commas, should be? well where a lot of them should be is is a hundred is i think the coaching in this country now for a for a few years has been not going in the right direction you know so why is that i don't know what that is but you know like obviously there's other reasons club coaching you can earn more money you know coaching players at that ranking you don't earn great money let's let's be honest you have to do it for the love and trying to get them there so I just think there's things I've learnt along the way which could help I don't think it's that complicated to get to top 100 is my honest take on it what's the key then?

1:36:22it's hard work isn't it? hard work, keep your game style a lot of practice if you want to get better at something you have to practice that sport it's pretty simple if you want your forehand to get better you have to hit more forehands you have to practice it more it's not going upstairs to look at some data about what the last match where you didn't really try that hard it's pretty basic to get to a certain level is my opinion on the game and know my player but he won't be doing all the other stuff until he does A, B and C, right?

1:37:02David Law:I suppose you have the... I didn't look at one piece of data in my whole career. Really? Never wore a heart rate monitor, never wore any of it, and I did all right. It's really not that complicated. You can make it complicated, but you can make it pretty simple as well.

1:37:26David Law:so it's nearly 20 it's 20 years since your first junior Wimbledon 20 years as a final final point how would you like people to think of Dan Evans in the future I mean I hope I tried hard on court yeah I think that's all you can the bottom line that's all you can do in tennis is try like it again I know it sounds simple but if you try hard and you lose what else can you do and that's what I think I did most days whenever I played at most tournaments I think I mean of course everybody has their off days and might throw the towel in every now and then but yeah I think I worked pretty hard and yeah I had the best thing about tennis is the life it gives all it's been you know like you've travelled everywhere towards the end I used to say like you know some some days like you'll we'll want to come back to this place but we'll have to pay like no it's true you know like when you're sat in a hotel room and you're like I can't be bothered to go out and you think in 10 years you'll want to come back to Tokyo but you're going to have to pay two tickets to get on the plane plus your hotel you used to go come on let's go out and walk a bit and that's what like it's it's an unbelievable job like to be out in all these cities New York like you're going there for free and getting paid it's like there's not a lot to be down about and that was that was the best thing I enjoyed it yeah I enjoyed like okay you have bad days jeez but I enjoyed pretty much everything about the tour I didn't enjoy much some of the players I didn't enjoy on the tour some of them didn't enjoy me but that's work colleagues for you isn't it well it's been fun watching following along thank you for the years and thank you for your time and well really do wish you the best cheers