Davis Cup Final - Cobolli clinches cup, is he Italy’s next big star?

22:32David Law:And even in the practice stuff that was going on this week, you were worried about him. So for him to come through those three matches and to win today, I mean, I think that's great for him. And he played seriously well, didn't he? I mean, he's still got it. If his body can hold up, he can still perform at this level.

22:58Matt Roberts:I can't quite, was it Austria they played in the first time? His first match, I was concerned about him fitness-wise. It was a convincing win, but there was a golfing class between him and his opponent. and yeah, it still didn't occur to me to think, why are you playing the injured number 58 in the world ahead of the fully fit number 36 in the world who's just sat there being a cheerleader? Like, of course you play Matteo Berrettini if he's putting his hand up in the Davis Cup.

23:31David Law:It would have been tough to have played Mazzetti ahead of him, to be honest, the way things have ended up going.

23:38Catherine Whitaker:And also I was thinking, you know, if Sina were there, would they have played Berrettini still in the number two ahead of Caballi potentially even? Like, you know, like they would have had some real selection headaches there because, you know, as they say, they always say this team is long is their expression. There's so many, so many possible players. Like it is remarkable that they've just won the Davis Cup without their two best players. I mean, just, just crazy. And I know they, the way the draw fell, I don't think they played a top 30 player or certainly top 20 player. You know, like I think, you know, they had quite a kind path there.

24:27Catherine Whitaker:You know, there were, you know, there was Zverev was here and Mensik was here. You know, there were, there was, and Lehechka, there were some bigger names here that they didn't have to meet. But you just sort of think they would have still sort of risen to it because Gabali and Berrettini did show us something very special this week. It makes sense.

24:51Matt Roberts:It feels right for Italy to be the Davis Cup champions again because they are the force in men's tennis. This is not an accident. With all of their best players, they could have won this thing several times over. Like they are such an incredible force in men's tennis. You could fill three or four Davis Cup squads, each of which could probably at least have a chance of making the finals with Italian men alone. Of course, you know, they've been winning the Billie Jean King Cup as well. But they are, is it too much to say they're creating a dynasty? Surely not. I mean.

25:37Catherine Whitaker:No. three for three look there's a great uh there's a great line that they're the first non-grand slam nation to win the Billie Jean King Cup and the Davis Cup in the same season on multiple occasions it's quite a sort of wordy stat but they've done it in in back-to-back years now winning the Billie Jean King Cup and the Davis Cup and the other nations to have done that are the US and Australia. And Australia did it in the sort of 60s and 70s. And, you know, and tennis just looked so different, you know, like there wasn't the depth that there is now in terms of the other nations. And the US last did it in 1990.

26:18Catherine Whitaker:And, okay, I think they have been helped by the change of format of these competitions. I think it is easier now to win multiple Davis Cups in a row. You have, you know, it's just less of an undertaking. but we shouldn't take away what that says about the remarkable depth that they have, particularly on the men's side, as you said, so many players. And on the women's side as well, they've got real commitment out of Jasmine Paolini, obviously, and her improvement has allowed them to become Billie Jean King Cup champions. But she's been well backed up, whether it be by Cocciaretto or Bronzetti kind of in different years and Irani and the doubles.

26:57Catherine Whitaker:That's it. They've got doubles players as well. You know, so many teams maybe have a good doubles pair and nothing else, or they might have a good number one and nothing else, or they might have sort of strength and depth, but not, but no one really special. So that, so the number one position isn't great. It's, they've got it all. They've got one of the best players in the world. They've got doubles teams. They've got the depth, like they have absolutely everything. And now they have the Davis cup finals at home as well. And it, you know, that word you mentioned dynasty, it really does feel like it's It's going to take a hell of an effort, no matter what Italian team they come with to these Davis Cup finals, for someone to beat them.

27:35Catherine Whitaker:Because they're going to come with a strong team because they don't have a weak team. So, you know. Yeah, I mean, they could come and win it next year, Matt, with a player that we haven't currently heard of. Like every Grand Slam, new Italians emerge. Yeah. I've actually just looked up the world junior rankings to see if the pipeline, if the production line is continuing. They've got the world number five boys player, Jacopo Vasemi. I thought you were going to say Jacopo Berrettini then for a very brief second. When I saw the name Jacopo, I did think of Jacopo Berrettini. Bless him. Speaking of family members, Cabali's dad, being on the Italian coaching team and being there courtside.

28:23Matt, watching on the broadcast,

28:25Matt Roberts:we had constant cutaways to Flavio Caballi's dad and that was tugging at my heartstrings. He was in the unenviable position of having to be professional because he's there in a professional capacity and presumably being employed to be professional, but it's also his son playing the biggest match of his life. And Italians, obviously, you know, they wear all their emotions. So I was, yeah, I was feeling it through the TV screen.

28:58Catherine Whitaker:And I think his mum was here as well. She was certainly here the other day during the time break. Yes, he said basically everybody he knew was here. Yeah, his brother. Yeah, girlfriend. Yeah, there's a footballer who plays for Rome, I think, Eduardo Bove, I want to say, who was, you know, because Caballi was a very good footballer growing up, you know, and I think he's quite integrated in that world as well. I think, you know, he's quite close to a lot of the Italian footballers, especially the Rome players, because he's a big fan. And, yeah, I think one of their stars was here, and, you know, they're very close.

29:41So, yeah, like he's very popular, Flavio Caballi.

29:46Catherine Whitaker:You can tell like everyone is just drawn to him. It's a special quality he's got.

29:55I know this is a silly hypothetical. In fact, it's hypothetical on two separate levels. So bear with me. If Yannick Sinner had played, would he have played singles and doubles?

30:09Matt Roberts:Would Vavisori, would Balele and Vavisori have been divided in order to maximise the Yannick Sinner?

30:17Catherine Whitaker:I mean, it's a huge hypothetical because they won in singles without Yannick Sinner. They were definitely winning in singles if he was here. I mean... Right, I know. But I just, I want to know. I suppose... There's no need for Volandri ever to disclose any of this. I mean...

30:34Matt Roberts:It's like Alcaraz in the... Alcaraz, I think, would have played the Spanish doubles, even though that wouldn't have been the right decision, I don't think. But I also understand it being irresistible to play one of the world's two best players, you know, get them out on the court. And that's what Isley have done in the last couple of years, you know.

30:56Catherine Whitaker:In 2023, Sina played with Sonago, and in 2024, he played with Berrettini when they needed him in the doubles. And he was more successful than, he's got a better record than Alcaraz has in doubles. Yeah, and I mean, there was that day, wasn't there, where he beat Djokovic in singles and doubles. You know, it was an incredible day. And that was really when Djokovic was still the guy, you know, like he just won the ATP finals beating Sinner. And then Sinner saved the match points and then came out and took him out in the doubles as well. So I think probably, I think they probably would have gone with Sinner again.

31:33because how can you leave him out when he has at least shown that he can win matches in doubles?

31:42David Law:Today's the day I would have liked to have seen Alcaraz involved. I mean, most of it, I've just actually loved the whole story. Without them, it's been great. But today, you know, as good as it was, imagine if you'd have shoved Alcaraz in there to see if he can just turn the tide altogether. Can we play it again and just have the alternative reality dried out? Well, presumably Alcaraz would have been a heavy favourite to beat Caballi. That's what the match would have been. And then you're in the doubles. But then you get Munar against Beratini. Yeah, I was going to say, Munar could have beaten Beratini, potentially.

32:25Oh, yes, of course it changes the... Do you want to do the sliding doors of an Alejandro Davidovich for Kina? Well, I think we have to come back to that, right? Yes. You know, like that kind of remains the one big question, really, I think, around Spain. Because, look, Alcraz was injured. Alcraz couldn't play. He wanted to play. He tried. He came, but he was injured.

32:54Catherine Whitaker:And so he couldn't play. So sort of actually, I think the sort of maybe more interesting question is Alejandro Davidovich Fikina because he was the one who was not picked. And if you put Alejandro Davidovich Fikina in, then you get him and Munar playing in the singles. And Munar is your number two. That does make Spain stronger. Look, I know Kareño Busta got a win in that semifinal, but the level Munar showed this week, he would have been a very, very strong number two for them. And who knows? Alejandro Davidovich Fikina could have been an even stronger number one. I think his top level is probably higher than Munar's.

33:38Catherine Whitaker:So I think for Spain, they're obviously very much hoping that Carlos Alcarez will continue to commit and just be fit next time. But I would like to see the reintegration of Alejandro Davidovic for Kina because he would be a very fun element to add into that squad. I just I do think there's a lot of friction there between Ferrer and him. And I think I don't think Ferrer is going to go out of his way to pick him, especially now these guys have got them to the final. It's almost a vindication, right? I know not fully, because you could say with Alejandro de Vilicic, Fikina, they might have been able to win it.

34:19Catherine Whitaker:You could see it that way. But I think the way Ferrer will see it is, well, just bring in Alcaraz and these are my guys. So it's a tricky situation. It's being in the world number one and we're fine. That's...

34:36Yeah. Just on one element of this,

34:42Matt Roberts:I don't want to be a downer, but I feel it's important to mention the extra rest day that Italy got over Spain going into this final. That's inevitable due to the structure of this tournament. We ended up talking about it because it's the same cadence as the Billie Jean King Cup finals. And we ended up talking about it during our shows on that competition as well. it is an advantage and we don't have the other side of the coin to know how much of an advantage. Flip them around and Spain have the extra day of rest. But I do know that Flavio Caballi playing that 17-15 deciding set tie break the day before having to come back and play the final, he'd have been in even more of a state than he was for the first set and a half against Jaume Munar today.

35:32Matt Roberts:Like it's a factor that you don't really want to be. You don't want it to be a factor, really, in terms of the integrity of the competition.

35:43Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. And it does keep cropping up. You know, as you said, we do keep having this conversation. It does. It does feel like an element that's there. Also, Spain, Spain played Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. They had all of their tennis right at the back end and their first two ties went the distance. whereas Italy was spaced out. You know, they started a day before. They then had a day off before the final. Like, I think it's a factor. I do, no one mentioned it. You know, Ferrer didn't bring it up or Munar didn't bring it up. But yeah, it is a factor and a tough one to solve in terms of the current format.

36:27Yeah.

36:28Matt Roberts:And then you've got the fact that it's a home tie. For Italy, that is a significant advantage. They don't have to qualify for the home nation doesn't have to qualify for the Davis Cup finals. They get a direct pass and it's going to be held in Italy for the next two years, which on one hand you think, brilliant. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, Matt, Bologna seem to have been really great hosts for this event. But again, it just poses potential integrity issues. Yeah, look, I think it has been a good event. I think the first one in Bologna has been a lot better than the first one in Malaga, for example.

37:10I think Malaga sort of took time to grow.

37:14Catherine Whitaker:But I think the last one in Malaga was better than this in terms of the event feel and the infrastructure. You know, like the fan zone here wasn't great. and in Malaga, at least like with the good weather as well, they've got a nice outdoor fan zone. I think the vibes were just a bit better here as well. You know, it's a temporary stadium and it feels, it does feel temporary. And I know that that is something that used to happen in the old Davis Cup as well. You'd have to suddenly throw a stadium together to sort of host something. But I don't know, I think given the long-term planning, You sort of hope that it's all great when you get there.

37:56Catherine Whitaker:And, you know, such a long walk from the press area to the courts. And I know that sounds like a really minor detail, but it does impact your ability to do your job. Like things like that. A long walk with a really uncomfortable seat at the end of it, Matt. You are describing my nightmare. I'm not minimising the problem you described at all. Look, I think it's something that is going to change here in Bologna. You know, I think the plan is very much to go to a different venue in Bologna next year. So I'm hopeful that... The one, the radio head one. I actually am not sure it is that one. I think they might, I'm not exactly sure about this, but I think they might be building a new stadium for the basketball team.

38:45And then I think the hope is that it will go in there, which would be a more permanent structure. It's just not a particularly glamorous location, you know, the way I described it in terms of Pavilion 37 and Pavilion 36. I think that really does give you an idea as to what it's like. It's pretty just sort of dry and cold. To be honest, Matt, your backdrop gives us an image of what it's like. Right. It's not glamorous. And I think you want a bit more glamour. And I'm hopeful that will build over the years. And also the city, lovely city, Bologna, like so nice, so stunningly beautiful. But it's under construction at the moment.

39:29And there's, you know, there's sort of putting a tram line in. So that wasn't sort of great for fans, I don't think. And it's not quite the same sort of World Cup vibe in terms of if you can't just be outside in the sun. and I think Malaga did have that going for it. So, look, I think it has been a good tournament and particularly with Italy's participation and run, there have been amazing crowds and amazing atmospheres. But you do risk having a neutral final, you know, like we had in Malaga. And you've also got the inherent unfairness of a country hosting it so much and so often. There are these issues with the format that we're going to talk about every single year in this current format.

40:22It works, you know. Like, I think we've had good weeks. And I think people probably underestimate just how many of the teams did have their strongest players here. And in Davis Cup generally. Like even in the qualifiers, USA had a strong team, but they just went out. Australia had a strong team, but they went out. So we therefore were missing some big players here. But it's not like they weren't playing Davis Cup this year. People are playing Davis Cup. Obviously, Yannick Sinner's withdrawal is the very big caveat to that. I don't want to play that down. That was big. But people are playing. But also, I always think the lack of good, proper TV broadcast deals is a massive problem.

41:09You know, like Germany, I was hearing it wasn't it wasn't on TV in Germany. It was being streamed online by the Federation. And back in the UK, I know that I know that I know Britain weren't in it, but it was on Tennis Channel. But very, very few people have that. I just I don't get the sense that people know about this still. and even even within tennis it feels quite small but especially outside of tennis and that to me was one of the big reasons for changing it they wanted it to have the bigger reach because they they said you know france croatia in france is great for those two nations but what's the bigger cut through let's have a final eight where we've got eight nations more people going to be interested i don't really get the sense that more people are interested via the new format maybe Maybe people will throw, you know, TV viewing figures and online stats at me that will back that it is bigger.

42:06But it doesn't feel like it has more cut through than it used to have.

42:12Matt Roberts:I mean, anecdotally, we've had a lot of people messaging us on Instagram, for example, saying, I didn't know how to watch this thing in the UK. I don't even know who the rights holders are. and I'm not privy to why Sky Sports don't have the rights, but they're showing the ultimate tennis showdown in a few weeks. Why don't Sky Sports pick up the Davis Cup finals and put out the feed? It's a good world feed. Just put it out. You don't need to do any production around it. It seems like a pretty cheap way to have some more live tennis to broadcast. Maybe they want to and they can't because there's an existing deal with Tennis Channel International.

42:52Matt Roberts:I don't know. But it seems a shame to me that it's not. I think this is a very UK-centric point, but I think just it being on the de facto home of tennis in the UK would elevate its status. It would pick up some casual fans that like tennis and check out what's on Sky Sports Tennis or browsing through the channels and see, oh, David's Cup final, check that out.

43:22David Law:Especially if you've got a sense of what the occasion sounded like, felt like, and you could be part of if you're doing that channel surfing and seeing a clip here and there or whatever. It's just lost. It loses out so much. I mean, when you watch the coverage, when you actually watched the match today, it feels like the biggest thing. It feels like such a big deal. and then, yeah, if you go and talk to people that aren't really making their mind up to find it and watch it, people just don't even know it's on. They don't know it's existing, and that's a shame. Presumably that's different in Italy.

44:05Matt Roberts:Oh, yeah. Like, would everybody in Italy have known about this and been watching it? Oh, I think so. You know, as David said, when you watch it, it feels huge. It felt huge. It felt big today. It felt, you know, there was hype. There was, you know, the crowd were in and up for it and there was pre-max ceremony and people were here early and they'd lined up to be able to sort of really clap the players onto court as they made their very long walk. I'm going to keep stressing it, from the player area to the arena. Like they were lined up, there was enthusiasm, there was buzz, there was love for it because people do love this competition.

44:44There is a magic to this competition. And, you know, I had a great time. I loved it. But I'm trying to just look at the bigger picture, I suppose, as well. Did you see did you see them breaking the cup, breaking the trophy on the stand? I heard about it, but I didn't see it. It was it was great. The bottom came off. And I think it was Berrettini that fixed it like the like the dad of the group. It was all completely adorable, as you'd expect. David, Flavio Caballi, what is he going to do next year in singles?

45:32Matt Roberts:How much of what we've seen this week is he going to bring to the ATP tour next year? He's currently ranked at 22 in the world.

45:42David Law:Yeah, I think he's going to bring a lot. Where's he going to be this time next year? I think we're going to see him in semis, maybe fine Lover Masters 1000 next year. I think that we're going to see him push in top 10. Maybe not making it, but being in that 10 to 15 area. I think he's got more room for growth yet. And the thing is, I think he can play on anything. and he's going to start the year with no points to defend at all for like three or four months. He could have a really good Australia. There's no reason why not. I think a lot of it with him will be about, I mean, to some degree he does need to get good draws, I think.

46:35David Law:There are some people that would cause him real trouble and could knock him off the court. but if he can avoid them and if he can really believe in himself I think he could have a very good Australia I think he could be an Australian Open quarter finalist for instance that wouldn't be beyond him to me He's already been to a good these are not the outlandish predictions that I go to David Law for he's already made a Grand Slam quarter final I think he could be top 10 next year I think he could have a Mazzetti-like year. It does feel like the sort of lower end of the top 10, you could easily say, you know, Caballi could have a similar level to Shelton or Mazzetti.

47:26And I think there's a few other players as well. Felix. Felix. I think Felix is indoors.

47:31Matt Roberts:I know it's about consistency, isn't it? But he seems pretty physically robust, Caballi. He's not had a season of playing the number of matches that you have to play if you're a top 10 player. But so far, he seems pretty physically robust. He's going to the gym now. That seems like a revelation for him. He is ook. And he's got Berrettini as his hype man. I'm going big on Caballi next year. I think he's going to be in El Race to get to Turin next year. He might be, I think he might just miss out. But I think come the end of the season, he's going to be, he's going to find himself maybe in a Lorenzo Mazzetti-esque nightmare.

48:21Matt Roberts:And I wish that for him.

48:27Matt, what do you think? Similar, really. You know, I think we're on the same page. I remember during Wimbledon where he had that quarterfinal run, I remember there was a lot of talk about just how great his returns are. And again, that's something I noticed. He's able to, I think, pick up the ball very quickly and latch on to returns. And he's really improved his serve. He gets quite a lot out of his serve considering he's not a big guy. Again, he really throws himself into it. He's got a nice kick serve as well. Like, so... It's motions like Federer's, isn't it? And I... It's definitely been modelled on Roderick Federer's.

49:10And I think the reason I mention serve and return, which maybe sounds a bit boring, is because I think he needs to do that sort of stuff well. I think the thing with Kabbali is you're drawn to the excitement and the potential of it all and the shot-making ability and the athleticism. And this is all great. He needs to keep that. But I think in order to make the next step, get into the top 10, reach a Grand Slam semi-final, break new ground. It's very important to do things like serve well. You know, like think of Mazzetti, remodelled his serve at the start of the year and it's really helped him.

49:49OK, he had a bit of a doubt with it midway through the season. But something like that can be so fundamental to actually like making you a better player. But I think he is along the right path there, Caballi. I like the way he's trending with those things. So, yeah, why not? We should absolutely be high on Flavio Caballi after this week because, you know, he was so great. So I'm going to say he touches the top 10 next year. There we go. Great. I'm with you. I'm the sober guy.

50:27Matt, in the on-court interviews on the World Feed that we were watching, it was Arvin Palmer doing the on-court interviews.

50:36Matt Roberts:And he got invited to the after party by, I think it was Valandri, who's interviewing at the time. Arvin did. He said, yes, Valandri said, I don't know where we're going to party, but we will be partying, I'll let you know. So maybe you're in there. If they're dishing out those invitations willy-nilly. Well. Maybe Arv isn't willy-nilly. Maybe they're great mates, I don't know.

51:05Catherine Whitaker:Well, look, my flight's not till 6pm tomorrow, so I can go big. OK. How many sort of places are there to party in Bologna on a Sunday night, do you think? I think it's not that hard to narrow it down Yeah Okay Okay

51:30Matt Roberts:David Any more Davis Cup takes Before we let Matt go and Find the after party

51:36David Law:No I would just encourage Anybody Listening to go and have a read of Charlie Uckel Share's piece in The Athletic about the Davis Cup That he's been working all week And he put that out over this weekend which includes an interview with Ross Hutchins, who's the new chief executive of the ITF, which is responsible for the Davis Cup. And it really tries to get to the heart of what Davis Cup could do to become the event it so clearly wants to be. And you get the feeling that the players want it to be, but they are struggling to kind of prioritise. and we've been having this conversation for so long.

52:22David Law:Charlie's interview with him, it makes you feel like Ross at least is going to try to open every door and talk to every player and see what the will is. If there is a common will, the problem is you speak to 20 people, you can often get several different versions of what should be happening. I mean, I said to you guys not that long ago in my sort of idealistic world, you would just stop singles playing September. You'd have the US Open, you'd have the tour finals at the end of September and you'd call October your Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup month. And then you'd stop and everybody'd have two months off.

53:03David Law:But Charlie put that in his piece and he said, yeah, but that'll never happen. Basically, the bottom line is, and I know it won't. And that's the problem. but have a read of it because you hear from Sinner and Alcaraz and you hear from Ross and other people within the tennis world. Everybody loves the event. Nobody wants to see it die. Everybody wants to see it thrive. But who's actually going to give up stuff in order to make it happen? And should it be going every two years is one of the big elements of it. You know, we had Jack Draper on this show a couple of weeks ago saying, make tennis more scarce, make people miss it, you know, and maybe if it was every two years, maybe there'd be that sort of missing it and desire to see it next time more.

53:55David Law:I don't know, I mean, you know, but how would the ITF ever do that? Because they make such money out of it and the federations make such money out of it. There's just so much there that you'd have to unpack. But I don't think the sport should stop trying. I don't think there should just be an acceptance of this. There needs to be a Ross Hutchins or somebody coming in and saying, no, this needs to be the ultimate. And that's how Ross talks about it. And OK, well, let's make it that then, shall we?

54:28Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, I would agree with everything David's said there. I was trying to think about, you know, a potential solution while I was watching this, you know, and I was thinking this is this is amazing. But this is, you know, this is a home and away Davis Cup final here by by luck, by chance. OK, not not total luck, because obviously it's got such a good team, but it could have it could have been very different today. It could have been different. There was not a guarantee that we got that atmosphere today here. And I know the ITF are very committed to the final eight as a concept, but I was thinking of the current structure of Davis Cup that we have with the three weeks of the year after the Australian Open, which is now home and away, after the US Open, which is home and away again, and at the end of the season, which is now the final eight.

55:23It did strike me that is it the wrong way around? You know, should the opening stages be a sort of group element? element and you whittle the teams down in neutral locations and then you have your big matches

55:41Catherine Whitaker:home and away at the end of the competition so you always get semi-finals maybe after the after the us open which is home and away and you get a final which is home and away and i it just strikes me that i i quite like the balance we've got now of of the three weekends rather than the four that it used to be. I think it has taken some toll off the players. And I like that we've got some home and away again. I quite like the final eight as a concept, as I've described. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just thinking, could it be even better? And I just think maybe if you were to flip it, you would get that incredible atmospheres for the end matches guaranteed.

56:25Matt Roberts:That's quite similar to David's proposal of having a big, we can discuss sort of the details of what it might look like, but a big competition earlier on. Let's say that could be a final eight type thing with lots of nations in one location. The winner of that to take on the defending champions in a home and away final. Yeah. And look, a potential negative of what I've just said is that, you know, I think those opening rounds on neutral venues probably wouldn't look great. You know, they probably wouldn't get many people going to them. And you, you know, you're maybe taking away the chance for some of these smaller nations to host ties, which they can at least now do with the with the two rounds of home and away early on in the competition.

57:20You know, we had the draws today for the qualifiers next year. I think India is hosting a tie, like amazing. And if you sort of came up with the sort of idea that I've had there, that would be probably very, very difficult to do. But I just am so sold now having, I think this is the first time since 2019 where I've witnessed a Davis Cup final have the home team in it, you know. And it's magical. It's better. And we used to have that. And now we're not guaranteed it. And I would I would like a way where the final of the competition, the final should be the best thing. And, you know, I was just trying to think of an idea within the current framework without changing it sort of massively and massively overhauling it, because ultimately what David said is right.

58:14Catherine Whitaker:Like to get the ideal ultimate change, you have to rip everything up. And, you know, all the various all the various governing bodies and enterprises have to be singing from the same hymn sheet. And that just seems just seems like a pipe dream. But I think I think there are ways. And I think David's right about Ross Hutchins as well. Hopefully he can be the sort of figure that can listen to people. And, you know, to be fair to the Davis Cup, they have made some changes. You know, like we're not we're not got the same format we had five years ago. They are trying to improve and tinker. Some of it was enforced by by losing all the Cosmos money, you know, like but they are open to change.

58:54So I'm hopeful that we can keep trying to build something even better, even if it's pretty good as it is right now.

59:02Matt Roberts:The thing is, the ITF are both responsible for the Davis Cup and creating this elite World Cup of Tennis product that is maximally attractive to an audience, maximally attractive to sponsors, viewers, players, you know, this big, shiny thing. And they're also responsible for developing tennis in smaller nations and for growing the sport worldwide and for grassroots. And I believe in both those two things. But those agendas are quite often in opposition. And with the Davis Cup, you're trying to unite those two agendas. And actually, they're not as aligned as the competition kind of needs is trying to make them in its current structure, doing the grassroots thing and having ties in India, which is a brilliant, brilliant thing.

1:00:01Matt Roberts:I'm not advocating against that, but it kind of is at odds with making the thing as shiny as it possibly can be. Yeah, that's it. And I think when people and I would, you know, I'm sure I'm guilty of this myself.

1:00:14Catherine Whitaker:When we when we talk about what the Davis Cup could be, we're mostly thinking about the top end of it and the top tier of it. And I think it's, as you said, the fact that it happens every year is very important for the smaller nations in the sport. And, yeah, it's so hard. For every proposal you can have, you can come up with a counterproposal for something else. Like, it's hard. And I do think people are trying.

1:00:46Matt Roberts:Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's been a good week. I've really enjoyed it and I am not going to get to go to the after party and I'll still have considered it a good week

1:00:57David Law:so who knows how many marks out of 10 Matt Roberts is going to end up giving his vision me and Arvin Palmer will we get to hear him sing again maybe Matt will start the Argentine song again Arvin Palmer, Flavio Caballi in a broken Davis cup call it a night out yes bring your singing to the party, Matt. We have mascots for this episode. They are Holly and Margot, owned by Randy, Randy Whitmire. Holly and Margot. I see some doodles here.

1:01:35Matt Roberts:Yeah, they are golden doodles. Holly is a three-year-old and Margot is a one-year-old. We live in North Carolina, says Randy, but they are originally from Tennessee and they're actually cousins. Holly loves chasing frisbee more than anything. Margot loves chasing her balls too, but can be distracted more easily by a juicy stick to chew. They sometimes accompany me to the tennis court, says Randy, and are well behaved there. In general, Margot is the loud one who wants everyone to know she's the top dog. They both are very loving and loyal and we don't know what we'd do without them. Randy, that's all beautiful, but you haven't told me which one's which.

1:02:15Which one looks like a holly and which one looks like a Margot?

1:02:19Matt Roberts:We have a pale blonde one on the left and we have a more gingery, Billie Jean type coloured one on the right. What do we think?

1:02:31Catherine Whitaker:I think maybe Margot on the right. I was going to say the same, Matt. Randy, get in touch. Let us know. So lovely dogs, both of them, whichever one is which.

1:02:46Matt Roberts:We have our mascots, of course, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to you. We have our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, do we have shout outs? We do. We have Fiona McGregor from Edinburgh. I was going to say that's a Scottish name if ever I heard one. Hello, Fiona. Hi, Fiona. Fiona's been listening to the pod since 2016. Good effort. Wow.

1:03:17David Law:The year Andy Murray became world number one at the end of the year. Andy Murray, world number one days. That is a long time ago. Nine years.

1:03:29Matt Roberts:I think of 2016 as the year that David discovered how weird I was about the Olympics. Do you remember that?

1:03:37David Law:Yes, I do. I do. You didn't do anything else, did you?

1:03:42Matt Roberts:I remember your face going like, God, I knew you were into it.

1:03:45David Law:I mean, I thought I was into it. And then I realised I couldn't get a hold of you. Unless it was to do with the Olympics.

1:04:00Matt Roberts:Edinburgh. I always tell the story about the Champions Tour event with the roof that didn't fit, don't it? It's Vienna reference. No, no, but it just made me chuckle. I went to, as did David, go to the, I think you were there, David, the Glasgow GB Australia Davis Cup tie, the semi-final.

1:04:26David Law:Yeah.

1:04:27Matt Roberts:Where I insulted. Oh, God. What's his name? The one who's now a politician.

1:04:37In an interview. I think that is still on the internet somewhere.

1:04:44David Law:You had takes about his hair, which his teammates found very amusing. Fiona, thank you very much for giving us the chance to relive that. We also have Fleur Thomas from New Zealand, but living in Melbourne. We know Fleur. We went for lunch with Fleur at the Australian Open. Hi Fleur. And the Eccleshares.

1:05:12Matt Roberts:Fleur. That was one of the all-time Grand Slam days.

1:05:17Catherine Whitaker:It really was.

1:05:17Matt Roberts:I can't believe that was real. That was so nice. I was like, what is my life on that day? Yeah, incredibly lovely and erudite company of which Fleur formed a significant part. So thank you, Fleur.

1:05:31David Law:I'm struggling for other tennis Fleurs, though. I've got to be honest.

1:05:35Matt Roberts:It's a lovely name, Fleur. Yeah. But yeah, potentially unique in the tennis world Thank you Fleur Thanks Fleur Maybe we'll see you again in Melbourne this time And finally we have a shout out from someone who didn't leave their name However, Vicky has done some quite extraordinary detective work And figured out from all the various information That it is for Barkley Hughes Oh Barkley? Maybe Barkley didn't want their identity disclosed Maybe Barkley's a spy Why would you want to shout out if you don't want your identity disclosed though?

1:06:16Catherine Whitaker:Part of the reason Vicky managed to figure it out Is that we've given Barkley a shout out before And Barkley said, you've got the pronunciation right Oh well, I'm very pleased Like Barkley's the former sponsor of the ATP finals

1:06:30David Law:Like Ian Barkley, the former, well, the coach of Pat Cash when he won Wimbledon in 1987. We've done great work there, David, for Barkley. Matt's come up with nothing. Alison Hughes. Yep. She was here this week. Is that the second time she's come up this week? Yes. Do we know anything else? Presumably we don't know anything else about Barkley.

1:06:52Matt Roberts:Are we spelling it right? B-A-R? Yes, absolutely. And Barkley says, my only Grand Slam has been the ninth session of a US Open in the early 2000s that featured a young Leighton Hewitt and Lindsay Davenport. Wow. Barkley. Yeah. Good memories. Leighton Hewitt played a professional tennis match this week. Did you see that? He partnered Cruz, didn't he? He played Challenger doubles with Cruz. Presumably they played. Yeah, and they won Love and War or something. But then presumably they played more.

1:07:27Catherine Whitaker:I didn't hear the end of that tournament story for them.

1:07:33Matt Roberts:Yeah. Well, I was about to close the show by saying that's it for live tennis for 2025, but apparently Leighton and Cruz Hewitt are still going, so we shall carry on and bring you news of whatever it is they're up to. That is it for live tennis for 2025, but that isn't it from us. We still have plenty more podcasts coming your way for the remainder of the season. In fact, our podcast coming to you next Monday is a very exciting one indeed. I shall say no more, but refresh your feeds, folks. We've got a fun week ahead at Tennis Podcast Towers. And subscribe to our newsletter. Check us out on Instagram if you want to make sure you cross everything that we've got coming your way between now and the end of the season.

1:08:21there might not be live tennis, but there's always nonsense going on to talk about.

1:08:28Matt Roberts:Always nonsense in the tennis world. And of course, we've got end of year shows. We've got barge awards. We've got quizzes. It's not too late if you want to become a friend of the tennis podcast and make sure you get access to all of the bonus content that we have coming up between now and the end of the year. We still have one more Tennis Relived edition to go that we're going to be recording very soon. Indeed, David did a big interview for that this week. Fun times here at the Tennis Podcast. Thank you all for listening to this show, for joining us live. If you did, it was a very lively, fun chat tonight.

1:09:06Matt Roberts:Thank you, as always, to Hannah for shepherding that. Thank you, Matt Roberts, for your incredible efforts in Bologna this week. He even switched off a fridge for today's show to ensure perfect audio conditions. You've taught him well, David. Yeah.

1:09:25Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Very proud. Don't worry, I will be switching it back on. Everything just if not.

1:09:32Matt Roberts:Go and find that after party. You have owned it, earned it. And please send content so I can post it on our Instagram. And do follow us on Instagram, folks. I'll pop a link in the show notes. There'll be a link to become a friend in the show notes, to sign up for the newsletter, all of that, if you haven't already. Thank you ever so much for listening. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Hannah has just posted in the chat to say the Barge Awards nominations close tonight. Get yourself on the Barge if you're a friend of the Tennis Podcast and vote in the Barge Awards. Thank you for listening.

1:10:10Matt Roberts:We'll speak to you soon. We'll see you next time.