Davis Cup Finals - Can Italy Threepeat without Sinner?

0:00Hello, folks. This is Catherine from the Tennis Podcast. It is 11.30 at night here in London. We finished recording our Davis Cup finals preview pod a couple of hours ago. Nice early night for us. Got the upload done just moments ago. And what lands on all of our phones? But the news that Carlos Alcaraz, unfortunately, has had to withdraw from the Spanish team ahead of the Davis Cup finals. That news just broken by Angel García Muniz on social media. As you can imagine, Carlos Alcaraz did form quite a large part of our preview of the Davis Cup finals. And that rather puts a different complexion on the week ahead.

0:46David's already gone to bed. Matt passes on to me that he would like to change his prediction to a Czechia victory. all I can say is please bear in mind that obviously the news hadn't broken at the time that we recorded I promise the show is still worth listening to it's not entirely out of date there's still a very timeless rant from me about tennis players and suits that I assure you is completely unmissable we'll be back on Thursday with our next show and yeah we'll hope to have all of the salient up-to-date information for you at the time of recording So sorry about that. Al Karaz out. Here's the podcast.

1:38Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. We are back less than 24 hours after we finished our last tennis podcast. We've had a whole day without tennis. We miss it. we're raring to go David live from Solihull how you doing I spend so much time campaigning for the season to be shorter and a longer off season and in the last few hours I've having having sort of rebounded from the ATP finals concluding and thinking I'm never going to get into another one of these events and now suddenly finding that I am into the Davis Cup finals I've stuck to think oh no I'm not looking forward to the off season very much when there's no tennis so yes it didn't take me long after that pretty good final really two sets between Sinner and Alcaraz but after that I did think oh you know no Sinner in this no Alcaraz Sinner final am I really going to be that into it and then I started to look at the lineup of the quarterfinals and and remember what it's actually like when it gets going and thought yeah I am into this so let's have it.

2:44David's going to be a UTS guy in December. He's going to miss tennis that much. Live from Bologna, Matt Roberts, how are you doing? Very well, thank you. I did wonder what I was doing when I was at Heathrow at 6.30am in the dark this morning. It's bad when it's dark, isn't it and you're in a travel situation and the sun hasn't come up yeah it's bad yeah you know the feeling but delighted to be here in Bologna uh yeah kind of got a spring in my step actually a new venue for these Davis Cup finals which I think sort of helps helps give the event a bit of fresh impetus and yeah I've had a nice day on site familiarizing myself with the venue and now back at the hotel talking to my favourite people for the podcast and raring to go for the first quarterfinal tomorrow.

3:44Viewers on YouTube being treated to a little glimpse of Matt's hotel room in Bologna looks very nice. Nice soft furnishings, a little bit of low lighting. Yes. You happy? Well I got here and it wasn't ready so I had to dump my suitcase and then went straight to site and I've only literally just got back to the hotel so I've spent you know only about 10 minutes in the room but no it looks it looks pretty nice there's a slightly complex system which I'm a bit worried about in terms of do not disturb it's not a physical do not disturb sign you have to you have to press a button oh yeah oh very modern Matt quite modern Modern hotel.

4:31Yeah, although some people I've been working with saying it's not a great system and suddenly they find themselves with someone in their room unexpectedly. Oh, like our old Airbnb host that snuck in and didn't realise I was napping. Oh, Paris. On the subject of hotel rooms not being ready, this is bringing back a Champions Tour event I went to in Italy where my hotel room wasn't ready. and it had been a bad travel situation and I went to sleep on a sort of soft bench in the lobby and I got woken up by Thomas Enquist. So there we go. Just underlining your ability to sleep anywhere. Yep, yep. I was just right in front of the revolving doors making my point.

5:23I thought the threat of a sort of dishevelled girl sleeping in their lobby might hurry them along with preparing my room. Tactical sleep. They were fine with it. They were like, that's worse for you than it is for us. Matt, your impressions, your day one impressions of, look, I know it's early days, but of the city, of the new venue for these Davis Cup finals. How have you found it all? yeah well i haven't uh seen much of the city yet at all i literally have just been to the hotel briefly and the site uh what i will say is that some colleagues i'm with here are a little disappointed about the slight lack of sort of branding all over the city you know when we were in malaga the last few years you knew the davis cup finals was going on you know there was posters everywhere and branding everywhere it doesn't quite seem like bologna has replicated that they did have an event in the town um yesterday i think that was a sort of welcome event where players sort of walked along a carpet and posed for photos and i think there was a bit of sort of fanfare around that but otherwise it does feel a little bit more low-key um so that's something to sort of keep an eye on I suppose as the as the event starts whether whether that whether that feeling will grow at all in the city and it's pretty small city so you would hope yeah they will get behind it if that is the case that is a shame because that is one of the best things about a big event being held in a smaller place the way it feels like the biggest thing that's happening in that place.

7:12You know, Turin feels like that with the ATP finals, the way they totally embrace it and lean into it. But interesting. Now, Bologna has been used as a city for the Davis Cup group stages. When we had those in this new revamped Davis Cup, Bologna held group stages in 2022, 2023 and 2024. however then it was played at the Unipol Arena but that was deemed not big enough for the finals and also Radiohead are playing the Unipol Arena I think four nights there this weekend and started this week so we're in a new venue so for anyone who did go to those Davis Cup finals in Bologna in 2022 to 2024 we're not there we're at a different venue uh in the bologna fiere which is like a sort of massive exhibition center in the kind of businessy district of bologna and there are basically a lot of vast buildings on this space and four of them are being used by the davis cup finals over this next week The main stadium court is in what they call Pavilion 37.

8:41And there's a... That sounds like the title of a dystopian novel. It's giving Hunger Games, isn't it? Yeah, set in a dystopian future. Yeah. Where aliens have taken us over. Yeah. Yeah. Great. but there is already a temporary stadium there which is where the Virtus Bologna basketball team play and that is where the Davis Cup finals are being held they've slightly altered the seating arrangement to make it better for tennis viewing and all told there's going to be about 10 ,000 seats and I must say it looks pretty impressive I think I was lucky enough today to be able to go right courtside. And it's a different vibe to Malaga.

9:34Malaga was sort of quite steep. This is much more shallow, but the court is really surrounded by seats. And I think if it's going to be full, and I think ticket sales have been pretty good, we should get a pretty good noise inside that 10 ,000 seat arena. And this will be the venue for however long the finals are held in Bologna. I can't quite remember the length of the contract. It's not like once Radiohead are gone, they'll go back to the other venue. This is not a Radiohead-specific situation. No, I think it's more to do with the fact that the other arena could host a group stage, but it couldn't host the whole finals because the other thing that they've got, there's another pavilion next to pavilion 37 there's pavilion 36 and that's where the media center is it's where the press conferences are going to be and it's also where the teams have their locker rooms the gyms the practice courts and it's a massive massive building so it's a big site that we're on you know if i if i want to go from my seat in the media center to my seat on court you know it's a it's a 10 minute walk it's a commitment yeah so that's the kind of scale that we're talking about um but as i said the stadium looks good uh i think a lot of the tickets were actually bought by locals you know we sort of know how much italy likes its tennis especially at the moment but we're very hopeful as well that because we've got seven european nations here we're hopeful that there will be plenty of traveling support as well for the teams you know we don't have usa or canada or australia who are obviously you know giants of the sport and real mainstays of davis cup and great davis cup nations but with the with the finals being held in europe as they have been for the last few years typically those nations have not had lots of support and their ties have felt, you know, maybe not quite traditionally Davis Cup.

11:44I think just with the spread of teams this year, because seven are from Europe and the other one is Argentina. And, you know, I don't think Argentina has ever played a sporting event without having incredible support. I think there's a there's a general feeling and hope that, you know, we should have some pretty good atmospheres this week inside that stadium. okay sounds good you um you went to some press conferences today who did you stumble upon uh the well i went to the italian press conference to end the day uh that was at that was at seven o 'clock local time quite late for for a press conference i think the italian team had been on site for quite a long time as well they were they were quite weary i would say It wasn't the most dynamic press conference you've ever been in.

12:38But... God, and these are the last ones standing. These are the least weary of all the Italian men. Right. And look, there's a big... Supposedly. There was quite a lot of Italian journalists there. I'm sure more will be coming over from Turin when Italy play, which is on Wednesday. But what I just thought was interesting about that press conference is how different the dynamic is without Yannick Sinner. Yannick Sinner so clearly the leader of that team over the past couple of years. And now without Lorenzo Mazzetti as well, there was a real like, who's going to step up here? Who is going to be the leader?

13:20And that question was... Would you think Berrettini? Well, it was put to Flavio Caballi. I mean, the only clear answer for me is not Flavio Caballi. Flavio Caballi agrees. Right, yeah. He knows himself, I think. Despite being the highest ranked player, he just gives off an energy of little boy, really, does Caballi. And he said, I'm the highest ranked, but I'm the youngest. And he was very, very keen to sort of downplay any kind of leadership role. And he basically said, what I think is true, we're all pretty much level now you know uh he didn't he didn't reference yannick sinner but i think he was you know he was sort of saying it basically in between the lines everyone has to be a leader in this team now and i think you're right matteo berrettini given what he did last year in this competition given his sort of general pedigree um i think he he will probably be looking to step up so it's just it's just interesting and it obviously means that the captain felipe Povalandri hasn't had to make too many decisions, really.

14:35I suppose he's had to pick his number two and he's had to put Sinner into the doubles. But he's known that Yannick Sinner is his number one and his go-to guy. It changes the role of the captain, I think, when you don't have such a sure bet. They've got Berrettini here, they've got Caballi and they've got Sonnego. All who could play singles are all in slightly different patches of form, I would suggest. So, you know, he's got options there to play with. And the difference is they're playing Austria in their opening tie. And that is pretty much the kindest draw they could have got. And even without Sinner and Mazzetti, I think they're very, very heavy favourites in that one.

15:18That's the second quarter final. So that's Italy against Austria on Wednesday. talk me through the Austrian team who have we got there Filip Misalich is a name I'm pulling out and I'm going to say Sebastian Ofner no where's he from they've got Yuri Rodionov and Filip Misalich as their two main singles players is Sebastian Ofner not Austrian I think he is Austrian where is he at he has not been part of this team if he's in the Maldives that's a joke we will inquire after after Sebastian they are captained by Jürgen Meltzer and there's quite a nice little link there because Meltzer beat Valandri who is the Italian captain to win his first ever ATP title back in Bucharest in 2006 so those two go back right wrist right wrist injury Sebastian Ofna he's off the hook the the mainstays that the guys who've got them to to this position if you look at the the qualifying rounds that they played in in January February and then in September are um Rodionov and Neumeyer.

16:46And both of them won both of their singles rubbers. And, I mean, they beat some serious players as well. Neumeyer beat Vertanen, who we've obviously seen a lot of in the Davis Cup in time gone by, in a 4-0 win against Finland. And then they beat Hungary 3-2. And they beat Marijan and Fuchovic, respectively, did Rodinov and Neumeyer. I mean, those are good wins. and they were like proper close ones. They were 7-5 in the third and 7-6 in the third. So those were pretty dramatic scenes and then they eventually had to go all the way to the fifth rubber. So they were 2-0 up. Then they lost the doubles.

17:28Then they lost the reverse singles. So it's 2-2. And then Rodionov beat Fuchovic 6-2, 6-1 to win the whole thing. And yet, David, they are heavy, heavy. underdogs against Italy. Even those heroics would be put in the shade by being able to pull off any kind of upset against Italy, let's be honest. I mean, there are two members of the Austrian team I fully haven't heard of. Lucas Meadler and Alexander Erler. Could we pick those two out of a line-up? Good luck to them is what I say. good luck against Andrea Bavisori but I do love that heavy favourites to come through there and they won their doubles another epic against Finland 4-6-7-6-7-6 in the doubles in the first round the first qualifying round did Erler and Miedler but you know I'm fascinated by this I knew Jürgen Meltzer a bit as a player I remember he reached the Wimbledon Boys final the year after, he won the Wimbledon Boys final the year after Federer won it, so in 1999.

18:49And obviously he had such a long career as a player, and he always felt like that sort of underdog character, a little bit like Paul Harhouse, a little bit sort of the guy who ends up beating somebody that you really don't expect. I mean, he's the one who beat Djokovic, wasn't he, over five sets, wasn't it? from two sets to love down he was the guy um pretty amazing frank show open 2010 i think yeah i think he'll revel in that underdog sort of system but at the same time i mean just rankings wise they are up against it and if italy do defend their title again they would become the first team to win three consecutive Davis Cup titles since the challenge round was abolished in 1971.

19:43Now, obviously, I think it is a slightly different and slightly less of an undertaking now to win the Davis Cup compared to what it was like in the old format where you would have to play all year long and home and away. It is different, but that would put into some perspective, I think this era of Italian tennis and dominance that we're in right now. And look, Sinno and Mazzetti not being there definitely weakens them. But, you know, home crowds, often players play even better. And they're on quite a good side of the draw, really, I would say. So I do think they've got a hell of a shot of winning it for the third time in a row.

20:27We are always talking about the depth of Italian men's tennis, aren't we? I mean, they've obviously got Yannick Sinner at the top there, but, you know, we're always joking during Grand Slams that there are just Italians crawling out of the woodwork. I mean, this is a really interesting test of that depth. If they can win the Davis Cup without Sinner and Mazzetti, that's a heck of a statement about Italian men's tennis. And just incidentally, in terms of the interest in the number of locals that have bought tickets, did you see the viewing figures that have come out overnight for the final last night in Turin in Italy?

21:06I haven't got them in front of me in terms of concrete numbers, but my jaw did drop to the floor because, you know, TV doesn't get viewing figures anymore, doesn't it? Nobody's watching linear TV all at the same time, with the exception being sport. But the numbers were similar to what the Italian football team get in major tournament matches. Something like 30 % of the population were watching Yannick Sinner against Carlos Alcaraz last night. And we were talking seriously mainstream sporting numbers here. It's mega. So that's Italy against Austria on Wednesday. We start tomorrow, Tuesday, with France against Belgium.

21:52Now here's a David Law coded team for you. France is it's Corentin Moutet. It's Arta Rindeknesh. It is Giovanni Mpesci Pericard, who's a late call up, Matt. He's the one that's come in for Ugo Mbair, is that right? So Rindekinesh Moutet Mpeshi Perikar, Benjamin Bonzi, who had a really fantastic middle part of the season, just kept on beating Daniel Medvedev, didn't he? And then in the year of our Lord 2025, Pierre Ougherbert. What a mixed bag of people that is. Well, imagine my shot when I walked past Richard Gasquet earlier. Surely he's not playing in the year of our Lord 2025. five well genuine is he just why is he there is he a mascot i think he must be part of the backroom team or something you know he was all in his french track suit just can't give it up david how high are your hopes for team france pretty high i mean they were the best dressed i thought at the uh the suited and booted event that they went to that that is all over the Davis Cup website.

23:10They've almost done like a carousel of photos of each team lined up in their respective outfits. And I personally think that they are comfortable winners in the coolest outfit look. Not that I'm any great shakes when it comes to knowing about the fashion. But I do think Czechia with their sort of turtlenecks, I'm not so sure. um on that on that one and then you've got germany you've only got the four players including the captain because vera's not turned up yet um but um france i i like the vibe of it i mean rindy kines has obviously had the season of his life so has muté they are not the most obvious selections i think if you you know you've got used to these big names really from french tennis whether it's songer or or yeah i mean gasquet is an ever present you've got monfils players like this from from years gone by and i think if in the first in the first tide that played against brazil in the qualifying it was feats you know and he was having he was the the main name and then of course his injury has forced him out but but it's it's really quite impressive i think the way mute and uh rindikanesh then stepped up you know and and managed to to kind of come through their tie against Croatia in Croatia you know that's not easy to do then to Oziak in Croatia which would have been pretty pretty good atmosphere for Croatia they've got um Marin Cilic playing for them at the time they'd got Mektic and Pavic in the doubles as well and and but France won all the singles you know they won they won the whole thing um they didn't even play the last one because they won it 3-1 Mute getting the the decisive win over Marin Cilic And I know Cilic isn't necessarily what he was, and he may have been feeling it physically, but he is also a guy who beat Jack Draper at Wimbledon.

25:12And, you know, I think that that is a great effort for Mute, who also beat the young lad Dino Prismic in the first rubber in that tie. So I'm a bit surprised at what a team player he appears to be at the moment, You know, because my sense has always been that France as a tennis nation, if you if you maybe would have spoken to some of the elder statesmen or the teammates, I'm not sure they would have thought that Moutet was going to be their guy for a Davis Cup. But he is really bought in and he's shown that he is that guy. And he speaks well when you hear him speak. He sounds really up for it and he sounds really proud to be part of it.

25:57And I guess maybe there's a maturing element to it. And I think that they're a cool team and I think that they'll be really into it. I mean, it's interesting that their captain is Paul-Henri Mathieu, who obviously we remember from the Davis Cup of that horror show against Mikhail Yuzhny when he was two sets to love up and he was multiple breaks up and he's about to win the Davis Cup. This is his redemption arc, David. imagine his emotion if he manages to lead France to victory yeah yeah and I mean quite a redemptive I do think it's a good tie though them against Belgium is a good time and I think I think France on paper are favorites but then so were Australia against Belgium you know they've been talking about teams that that was the feature of the whole qualifying round in September was countries going away to really big nations that have won the davis cup lots of times australia united states croatia and beating these smaller teams in many in many cases beating the the big nation on their home soil and i mean what belgium did going to australia to beat dim and all you know that is seriously impressive um so i i think we're in for a really interesting tie because belgium have obviously got zizu bergs who's who's you know done a lot of of of solid stuff over the last year or two but then they've got the the guy uh collion who's just just played absolutely out of his mind in that time and seems to be a real kind of frightening prospect for a lot of these teams and alexander blocks who we might not we might not see play but he's a he's a name that is on people's radar as a talent for the future he's 20 now i think but he was a very talented junior he's he's on that he's in that transition phase trying to uh transition from the the juniors into the seniors and they've got they've got a good solid doubles team that play together a lot have the Belgians, Gilles and Vliegen.

28:11Just quickly, Matt, before we get your thoughts on this tie, David has teed me up to volunteer one of my potentially unpopular tennis opinions, which is I don't ever want to see tennis players in suits. At their wedding, they can wear a suit. Fine. I hate it. The ATP finals photo shoot. You've got all these young, cool, most of them, hot guys, a lot of them with fashion brand deals. And they're just there wearing a sort of corporate ill-fitting suit looking like they're in a uniform. It's so shit. Looking through the Davis Cup photos, you've got the carousel. And, you know, you go through the teams.

28:58the Spanish team I mean I bet Al Krause is glad he managed to swerve that photo shoot they all look like they're dressed as line judges and then you're scrolling along and then David Haggerty pops up and it looks like he's just wearing the same as the teams, they should not be dressed like David Haggerty it's just let them look cool for God's sake I hate it Turtlenecks. Actually, controversially, David, think as much as I hate a turtleneck on a man generally, I actually think that's the best look because it's a bit different. They don't look like they're about to offer me a glass of champagne.

29:45Which I would gladly accept from any of the Italian team. Matt, serious takes on this first quarterfinal. well David's outlined you know the respective teams and all of that really well I think the thing that jumps out to me is how absent these two nations have been from the Davis Cup finals you know like they played a Davis Cup final against each other as as recently as 2017 did France and Belgium. And yet... I was there. And yet with the new format, they haven't really bought into it. You know, like I think they absolutely could have done better in this competition, but they have sulked a little bit at the change of format.

30:36And look, I think a lot of us understand where they're coming from, you know, but I think it has probably affected their performance. And what's interesting is now, you know i think david's right this sort of slightly new look team has maybe given france a bit of a fresh feeling and a bit of fresh impetus in this competition and there's a sort of togetherness there um plus you've got pierre hugebert who actually i thought spoke very well on the format today he said the new format has been challenging for us in france i think especially for me because I felt like something a bit died in this competition but then he said I can say though that this year I felt something growing something that's a bit different from the past years and he's referencing there the fact that they had the two rounds of home and away you know it felt like they were in this competition on the road together like they used to be and he said I rediscovered the love a bit for the competition so he's he's kind of prepared to give this final eight a proper chance so i kind of liked that perspective there from erbert recognizing okay it's not what it was but there's still something something here and something to be enjoyed um and then you know as i said belgium they were led by david goffin for so many years weren't they in in in that period when they reached two finals losing to to great Britain of course and France you know very impressive little period there for Belgium but haven't had the same success and now it is the likes of Collignon and Berg's who are who are going to try and get over the line for them I think it's I think it's quite it's quite an open one this like I think France would probably be slight favourites but Collignon has a win over Casper Rude this year you know like I think he can play up and I think it's possible that he could get Belgium off to a good start and then suddenly Rindner Kanesh, it's all on him to keep France alive.

32:38I think they're two tight singles matches and then who knows for the doubles. So yeah, I'm quite excited for that one to kick things off tomorrow. Yeah, me too. I think that's a fun tie to start with. My phone offered me an on this day in 2017 video yesterday and I clicked on it and it was La Marseillaise being sung around the stadium in Lille to open that Davis Cup final. And it gave me chills. Incredible moment. So we'll get the Marseillaise tomorrow to kick off these Davis Cup finals. That is it for part one. Join us in part two and we'll chat about the second two quarterfinals. Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast.

33:25Moving on to Thursday, which is a double header. pray for Matt Roberts on Thursday. It starts with Spain against Czechia. And now Spain, obviously captained by David Ferrer, led by Carlos Alcaraz. They also have Jaume Mouna, Pablo Karenja Busta, Pedro Martinez and Marcel Granoyes. And Team Czechia is led by Yurila Hetschke. They have Jakub Mensik, Thomas Mahatch, Vítka Priva and Adam Pavliszek, who should be requesting a new photo on his Davis Cup website bio because I was shocked to click on his photo and discover he was 31.

34:13Talk us through this tie. I mean, look, it's so kind of, this is so all about Alcaraz, isn't it? but yeah talk us through it Matt who you expect to play is Thomas Mahatch going to get a match is Thomas Mahatch a Davis Cup guy I mean he has been in the past he has been he's played well for Czechia in the past but I think what's interesting about the Czech team is that you know the dynamic of it has changed over the course of the season you know because I think at the start of the season it would have been probably Leheksko and Mahatch as the two first-choice singles options. But Mensik, with the season he's had, certainly the first half of the season that he had, has kind of, you know, usurped Mahatsch, certainly in the rankings.

35:04And if they line up in rankings order, then it would be Lehechka and Mensik. And, you know, I think when they face a Spain with an Alcaraz, there is perhaps a sort of tendency to maybe overthink things in that Czech camp. You know, you sort of think, oh, can, you know, have we got an option to try and beat Carlos Alcarez? And therefore, do you think maybe Mensic's your best chance? Well, that means you have to play Mensic against Alcarez, which means you have to play Mahatshaw in the number two. It means you have to leave Lehechka out altogether. And I think that's probably overthinking things.

35:36I think they should probably stick with Lehechka against Alcarez, who, you know, he's got a win over Alcarez, hasn't he? I know it was in Doha. It was a tight match at Queen's that they played. I thought Lehechka played well at the US Open against Alcarez, but still lost in straight sets. But I think you go Lehechka as your number one, and then you make a choice between Mensik and Mahatsch as your number two. And I would probably, despite being at one time chief leader of the Thomas Mahatsch Best Player in the World fan club, if I were Thomas Burdick, I would probably be leaning Jakub Mensik in this situation.

36:17Especially as he won the decisive match, didn't he, for them against the US. He won the fifth match there. You know, he's played with that pressure very recently in this competition. But great that Czechia have had their strong team the whole year. You know, all of these guys have made themselves available every round. And I think, you know, I spoke to Thomas Burdick in the press conference today and he was pumped about that. I think he really senses that there's a chance here for Czechia to win this competition again. He won it as a player. And this is kind of the first time since then that they've got a group of players that you can really look at and think, actually, they could do some serious damage and are contenders to win this competition.

37:02So that's Czechia. For Spain, well, let me first of all say just as well that Alejandro Davidovic Fakina is not in the team. because if he didn't like playing at 11am on tour earlier in the year, he would have had to have started at 10am on Thursday. So perhaps David Frere has played a really long game there and thought, nope, he's not a 10am guy. Therefore, he's not on the team at all. I think what's actually happened is some slightly, you know a slight bit of in team aggro really you know I think Spain were expecting Alejandro Davidovic Fikina to play in the previous round in that qualifier and he didn't and I think David Ferrer has wanted to reward the people that did play and got him through What do you think of that?

37:58What do you think of that captaincy? Is it letting cutting off your nose to spite your face letting your pride get in the way? And of course it's not totally consistent because Carlos Alcaraz didn't play either. Right. And he's happy enough to bring him back in. But, you know, there is a difference between Carlos Alcaraz and Alejandro Davidovich Fakina. Like, should you be treating them in the same way? He'll be asleep, but fit. He said he was arriving in a van from Turin to Bologna and he was not lying. Yes, if you're not... He literally did arrive in a van. He arrived in a van, got out of the van, did some adorable interaction with a baby, looked thrilled with life, like we're so back.

38:41Yeah.

38:44Yeah, what do we think of that decision from David Ferrer and the reasoning behind it, David? I do think from listening to Ferrer at least, he seemed to be making out that it had happened multiple times as well, that he'd asked him to play and he'd sort of kind of let him down multiple times. Which I think if that's the case, then I think I understand it. And there is a bit of X factor to Davidovic for Kina. I think he has a higher upside than probably Djamé Mouna and all the other players that aren't Carlos Alcaraz on that team. So I can understand the temptation to just go with it anyway. But if he does, I think he probably gets on fine with all the other players.

39:33I've never noticed any issues with the other players generally when you've been out on the tour. That's not been my sense. But I think if they are all putting their hands up and Ferrer's pissed off with him for not doing so, I think you do risk disrupting things. And especially if there is, it sounds like there is real animosity between Ferrer and Davidovic Fikina just directly. and I can't remember anybody ever falling out with David Ferrer so that does feel like something that you probably do need to make a stand on at some point I mean I am when we get on to Germany I'm going to be quite interested to see what it's like with Zverev the way that he's sort of made out like it's not that big a deal and he's doing it for Struffy and he's doing it for the team which maybe that will get them over the line but if he will he will probably his competitive instance will probably come out and he'll probably play well but I do think team spirit matters and like what Thomas Burdick has said there about Czechia I think it's a real thing I think that that makes them greater than the sum of their parts because they've been in it since month one I think that they are going to be a formidable prospect because of that as well as their individual skill so i i back for air on that one and it's been an odd time i think for the spanish davis cup team because they've obviously hosted the davis cup finals for a number of years in a row and they and they won the one in madrid didn't they in in 2019 when rafa nadal was incredible and you know one of the one of the most remarkable things i've personally ever witnessed was was what roberto bautista agoo did that week you know going back after the after the death of his father and and coming back and playing a tie it was incredibly moving and emotional and you know pretty extraordinary really so they had that success in 2019 but then they've had a series of slightly odd davis cups since then you know there was one year they didn't qualify for the finals and then obviously last Last year, they were playing the Davis Cup finals, but what they were actually doing was a vehicle for Rafael Nadal's retirement.