Davis Cup - Italy vs. Spain final; Who needs Sinneraz?

21:07Catherine Whitaker:yes he i discovered a video yesterday when i was on tennis reddit of uh matteo berrettini and flavio caballi as as kids and i hadn't quite realized to be honest that their connection went back so long and it's it's such a sweet video you've got you've got berrettini who's a teenager at the time he's about 14 or 15 in this video and caballi's you know eight or nine years old you know kind of like he does still Berrettini absolutely towers over Flavio Caballi in this in this video and is a sort of literal big big brother figure and Caballi's sort of munching on a snack and he's he's quite sort of sweet you know Berrettini's sort of giving an interview to whoever's filming this video it's very very sweet So I realized that there was a connection there that that goes way back.

22:04Catherine Whitaker:And I asked Berrettini about it and he just gave the loveliest answer about how much he cares for Flavio Caballi. and he basically sort of told me their origin story, which was that he went to this club in Rome when he was a teenager and that's where Caballi trained and Caballi's father, Stefano, was coaching there and they would put on these tournaments and that's where this video stems from. And, you know, Berrettini said it's crazy to think about the time that's passed and now they're in a team together. and he actually mentioned what you just mentioned, David, about earlier this season when Caballi was in a funk and couldn't win matches and Berrettini said he spoke to him after Miami and Caballi was planning to go and play a challenger to try and get some wins and Berrettini put his arm around him and said, you don't need to do that.

23:03Catherine Whitaker:Your level is there. Train for a couple of weeks. Things are going to come. Don't worry about it. and then Caballi went and won Bucharest and kind of his season was off from that. But Berrettini really spoke quite wisely, I think, about the kind of advice he tries to give to young players in terms of not trying to rush everything and hope it all comes quickly. Sometimes you've got to take your time and believe in yourself. And he said he liked to get advice from older players when he was younger and now he sees it as his role to sort of hand out that advice. and he just believes in Caballi's talent and his game.

23:42Catherine Whitaker:And he said, I told him, don't you worry, child, which was just so sweet. And, you know, I think that was a big moment in Caballi's season, having Berrettini there speak to him and back him. And now here they are, all those years later, being the two singles players together for Italy without Sinner and without Mazzetti trying to win the Davis Cup. It's pretty, pretty magical. You know, it's kind of a reminder that, yes, the Davis Cup is mostly about playing for your country, but also those relationships within a team can be extremely important. And here's Berrettini and Kabbali kind of really playing for each other.

24:24Catherine Whitaker:And, yeah, it's incredibly special.

24:29Matt Roberts:None of these players would have been anything other than thrilled if Yannick Sinner had put his hand up and been playing for Italy in these finals. And yet, experientially, there probably is something different and potentially more special or certainly special in a different way about him not being there and then not being a superstar of that magnitude on this team. I mean, and let's not forget, I mean, you've both said it, but Lorenzo Mazzetti isn't there either. Like, neither Berrettini nor Caboli would be playing, most likely, if all of Italy's players had put their hand up and shown up for this tie.

25:13Matt Roberts:Like, that's wild to think that these two would just have been there being Lorenzo Sonnego in the background. And look, he does great clapping, does Sonnego. And he seems like a great vibe. And what I love is somebody in that role that doesn't seem chippy about being in that role. You know, Sonico seems fine with it and bless him. But like, up until three weeks ago, these two thought that that was their destiny most likely in this team to be cheerleaders. and they're potentially going to do something for Italy and for themselves that is totally career-defining in a way that it wouldn't have been if they'd done it with Yannick Sinner in the team.

26:00Matt Roberts:I mean, they have already done it with Yannick Sinner in the team, but this is different. And if they do it, it'll probably be better.

26:08David Law:Yeah, more special. I think that's fair. I think that's true. I agree with you. So, yeah, it's a heck of a few weeks for Italy when you think of it in those terms, if they actually pull this off, that, you know, Sinner's gone and won everything. And then Mazzetti's had his big moment at the HV finals and his big qualification. And obviously the women have won the Billie Jean King Cup and now these two come along.

26:35Matt Roberts:Crazy.

26:36David Law:And Vavasori. Vavasori Irani.

26:40Matt Roberts:Yeah, mixed doubles champions at the US Open, David. How can you forget?

26:43Catherine Whitaker:An official Grand Slam tournament. Reimagined. On the bloody roll of honour and everything.

26:49Matt Roberts:Do we have anything more to say about that first match in this tie? Berrettini beating Collignon 6-3, 6-4. I mean, you mentioned it there, Matt, with Collignon's post-match comments that kind of summed it up. He was not the guy that we'd seen in the quarterfinals in this match. Not by a long shot, really.

27:12Catherine Whitaker:No, although he did start slowly in the quarterfinals as well, against Mute. I think he was struggling a little bit there as well, but grew into it. He found it easier to grow into it in the quarterfinals, Whereas I think just the cacophony of noise made it harder to do that in the semifinals. It's quite interesting because he had been the guy for Belgium to get them to the final eight. It was him who scored the two singles wins, including upsetting Alex Dimonor in Australia to get them here. And I think also that was why I was speaking to a Belgian journalist and she was telling me, I think that was part of the reason why Berg's was so crushed as well in that he's, you know, he's the higher ranked of the two.

27:59Catherine Whitaker:And I think he wanted it to be kind of his moment as well, you know, like him to be the hero, whereas Collignon had been the hero before. I think he sort of was desperate for that moment for himself, obviously for the team as well. I guess the only other thing I would add is that I thought Berrettini looked a lot better in this one than he had in the in the quarterfinal. I thought he looked fitter. I thought his forehand was absolutely firing and he was using his slice to good effect as well. He looked like 2021 Berrettini, didn't he?

28:34Matt Roberts:It was a real roll back the years performance. Made me misty eyed.

28:40Catherine Whitaker:He gave an answer in press about how his slice got so good and he sort of laughed and said, well, it's when I was injured, when I was younger. I couldn't hit a two-handed backhand because I had a left wrist injury. So my coach just said, OK, well, let's just work on your slice then in this time when you can't play. And he really developed it and made it a weapon. And, yeah, he had that blend going on. And he used the crowd extremely well, I thought. And they all got behind him. So I had some real doubts about Berrettini coming into this event. Even after that first match, I wasn't convinced. But I thought he was excellent here.

29:16Catherine Whitaker:And yeah, I suppose that was probably my big takeaway from an Italian perspective on that first match.

29:24Matt Roberts:Bodes well, doesn't it, for the final for Matteo Berrettini. And we will look ahead to that final and talk about the other semi-final that's just wrapped up between Spain and Germany in part two. Welcome back to the Tennis Podcast, where we turn our attention to Spain's victory over Germany now in a decisive doubles. We had Pablo Karenja Busta beating Struffy 6-4, 7-6. We had an ill Alexander Zverev. He wants everyone to know that he was ill and he still beat Jaume Munar 7-6, 7-6 to take it into the decisive doubles where Marcel Gnoyes and Pedro Martinez did what's been impossible in Davis Cup.

30:11Matt Roberts:They beat Kevin Kravitz and Tim Putz. the undefeatable German doubles team, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3. And they're the heroes of this tie, really, David, Granogas and Martinez.

30:29David Law:Yeah, because, you know, they've split those first two rubbers. I mean, I'm very impressed with Pablo Carrena Buster getting that win over Stroffy. And then Zverev, you talked about got that narrow win over Munar. And then, yeah, I mean, I was pleased this came down to the doubles, but I really did think it was going to go Germany's way because of that record that you've just spoken about. And then suddenly, Grenoines and Martinez just burst out of the blocks and won the first four games, barely lost a point. I mean, they were just hitting it. It didn't matter what the Germans did. They were hitting winners off everything.

31:05David Law:And then when that first set, 6-2. And then the second set went kind of dramatically the wrong way for them as the first one went the right way. You know, they suddenly couldn't cope with the German combination, really. You can see how much they've played with one another. So you get into this deciding set, and I mean, I really thought the Germans would win. I thought that this is where they're just taking over. They're showing why they have this incredible record. And even though the Spanish team is strong, it doesn't feel as cohesive, generally. You know, they don't feel like they feel more like two players who have slightly different skills to one another, but not quite the team that the German team were.

31:48David Law:But they found some inspiration in the middle of that set. And I mean, Grenoy is some of the shots he was hitting. I mean, he's an incredible net player for a start. I mean, his anticipation, his interceptions and so forth. And then he hit one round the net post shot at sort of ankle height between the net post and the sort of block of a sponsorship block. The imagination to even think of it was astonishing. And then we when they were sort of trying to serve it out, we actually saw a kind of a bit of a choke from the German team with the overheads. and Tim Putz had not been, he doesn't, you know, he's got a great serve for a guy of his size, you know, and I think he's normally got an amazing overhead and he just fluffed a couple.

32:41David Law:And that was just at the nick of time because Spain were wobbling a little bit, trying to seal it, trying to serve it out and get over the line. But, you know, sometimes you need a little bit of that, don't you? And I thought that was quite an upset, but just a huge credit to Granoia's and Martinez. You know, you line them up on the bench and they don't get many questions in the press conferences but they're just quite happy to be a part of the team and play their part when they're asked to come out. And like you said at the start, Catherine, they've made themselves heroes today. Isn't that great?

33:22David Law:to just know that they're the ones. I think that must be a great feeling.

33:29Matt Roberts:We'll never know, but had Alcaraz not been injured and been in this team, he probably would have been picked for the doubles just because he's Carlos Alcaraz.

33:39David Law:How can you not put him on the court

33:42Matt Roberts:at every possible opportunity? And yet he's not a very good doubles player. I'm not saying that would be the wrong decision to pick Carlos Alcaraz, or I'd be strong enough not to in David Ferrer's shoes or that they necessarily would have lost. But on evidence we've seen so far, he's not that good a doubles player. And it might... I mean, ultimately, again, they would rather have Carlos Alcaraz in tomorrow's Davis Cup final. But in terms of this doubles and winning this tie, I don't know, maybe it didn't hurt.

34:17Catherine Whitaker:Well, look, we've got the case study from a year ago, right? When they did have Martinez on the team, they could have paired him up with Granolais in the doubles.

34:28Matt Roberts:It's so easy to forget that Martinez was on that team, Matt.

34:32Catherine Whitaker:Yep. Do you remember him in the enormous Rafael Nadal press conference with sort of all of the world's media there? He was just sat on the end.

34:41Matt Roberts:He was barely in the camera shot.

34:43Catherine Whitaker:He was fairly conscious, I think, by the end of the press conference.

34:47Matt Roberts:Why did I have to be here? I could have had a lie-in.

34:50Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, and yet he was on that team. They didn't use him and they went out with Carlos Alcaraz against a very, very strong doubles team. And Wesley Koolhoff that day was superb, but they were playing a very strong doubles team here in Putz and Kravitz. And, you know, it goes to show just how much can change in a year because, you know, Martinez has gone from literally not playing and just being on the sidelines last year to actually being a real hero for them this whole Davis Cup campaign. You know, he played the doubles that started the comeback of Spain's qualifier against Denmark. And he didn't play with Ghanoyes.

35:34Catherine Whitaker:Ghanoyes wasn't there. He played with Munar. And they won that doubles. And ended up winning that tie. And then he's paired with Gunnar Yeshira to win two deciding doubles. And he's actually unbeaten in Davis Cup this year in two singles matches and four doubles matches. He's been so good for Spain. And I just came from the Spanish press conference before coming here to do the podcast. And they said something which I found interesting. It makes total sense. but the key was that they both played well and kind of caught fire at the same time in the same games. It's kind of no good in doubles if only one of you is playing well and winning the points, for example, on return on the deuce side.

36:16Catherine Whitaker:If you then can't win the ad-court points as well, you don't really get anywhere.

36:21Matt Roberts:Or if you're on fire and your partner's fluffing all the volleys.

36:25Catherine Whitaker:Right, exactly. But what happened was it was Martinez on the deuce side. There was a couple of games where he just hit a brilliant return straight away and got them in the game. And then Granolles responded and hit a brilliant return as well. And they were backing each other up really well and matching each other's energy. And I think that was really important for them. And, yeah, it's a hell of a win because, you know, I thought they absolutely needed. I thought they were underdogs in all three matches today, to be honest, Spain. I thought they needed to flip two of them at least and that's what they did.

37:03Catherine Whitaker:I think maybe Kareno Buster, I sort of wrote him off too much. I think the class is permanent. It feels like maybe it's come in there.

37:15Matt Roberts:He's hit the ball so sweetly today though, like a dream.

37:20Catherine Whitaker:Absolutely. Look, he's not had the season he would have wanted. He's had some injuries as well, but he has in the last month or so got a lot of form on the Challenger Tour. He's playing matches again. He's winning matches again. And he was brilliant today. A really nice blend of attack when he needed to, also soaking up some of Struff's power. But even after that win, I still felt like they needed to flip one of them, you know, because Zverev was favoured over Munar and Kravitz and Pups with that record. I just felt like they were favoured as well. So for Granoyessen and Martinez to do what they did was pretty special.

37:55Matt Roberts:He had 6-1 in the second set tiebreak, Struff. Jan Lennart's too. I mean, Kerenje Buster was great, but it was a joke.

38:09Catherine Whitaker:Oh. It was a joke. Totally. Like, it's harsh to say, but you can't sugarcoat that. because what was odd was that he'd been really, I'm going to use the other sort of C word, the opposite word, clutch. He'd been so clutch. Yeah, don't worry, that C word. He'd been so clutch to save a load of Cronio Buster match points just before the tiebreak. He'd hit winners on all of them. And then he got into the tiebreak and he started it impeccably, Struff, just brilliant, attacking tennis. And I thought, right, 6-1, this set is over. We are going to a third and Struf's going to have the momentum. But it wasn't even like there was a turning point other than the fact that he suddenly had five set points.

38:58Catherine Whitaker:But he lost his game and he lost his nerve and he just became an error machine. And Kroenje Buster did well to keep the ball in play and make him play. And I think just the belief grew. As soon as he kept saving set point after set point with Ferrer on the bench there as well, suddenly felt like something was on. But no, Struve, unfortunately, a terrible choke. He lost, yeah, seven points in a row to lose the match, lost his five consecutive set points. And it was brutal because, yeah, it's just a massive choke.

39:35Matt Roberts:OK, I'm glad you've validated my take there, Matt.

39:40Catherine Whitaker:Appreciate it.

39:41Matt Roberts:OK, that's it for part two. Join us in part three for your old favourite. punchy predictions. Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast, where there's really just one punchy prediction that I want from you both, because there is just, well, there's more than one match, but there is one tie remaining in the 2025 tennis season. Who is winning the Davis Cup tomorrow? And since there is only one tie to predict, I would like individual match predictions from you both as well. David?

40:14David Law:I desperately love it to go to the doubles, but I don't think it will. I think that Berrettini will take out Karina Busta. I think Kabali will take out Jamei Munar. I don't think they'll be massively one-sided. I think, you know, Karina Busta's shown he can handle a big serve and he's playing beautiful tennis, actually. I still think the sort of presence of Berrettini and the relentlessness of him will hit through him eventually. You know, he's not going to, I don't think, make the sort of errors that Struff made. And then in the other match, I think you've got two players that are, again, quite similar in Munar and Caballi.

40:58David Law:They both move well. They both hit well from the baseline. They're both going to go for the shots. They're both going to bring loads of emotion. I just think Caballi's that little bit better. and you know with the emotion of it all I think he's going to be at his best and I don't quite think Moon Ark will stay with him so I think it'll be Italy in two

41:17Matt Roberts:compelling yeah Matt

41:19Catherine Whitaker:and we have not had a Davis Cup final in the new format or a Billie Jean King Cup final in the new format go to the deciding doubles they have all been won in the singles goodness

41:37Matt Roberts:that is a shame

41:38Catherine Whitaker:it is a shame you know I would love for this to go to the deciding doubles because I also think it would be compelling you know you've got you would have Granolles and Martinez in form we've seen that they've won two matches against good teams but taking on an experienced double team themselves in Balogli and Bavisori but they haven't played Balogli and Bavisori all week they've been sat on the bench What's their form going to be like? But they'll have the crowd, you know, so it would just be a fascinating cocktail of elements in that deciding doubles. I think I think I underestimate Munar a lot.

42:19Catherine Whitaker:So I think I'm going to go with some Davis Cup magic and say that we might finally get the doubles. There's a lot of me that agrees with what David's just said.

42:31David Law:You don't underestimate Jeremy Munar, Matt. You're always banging on about how good Munar is. You think we underestimate Munar.

42:40Matt Roberts:Is this the point at which we need to declare that Matt has got a citizenship application currently under processing with the Spanish consulate?

42:46David Law:Matt is a Munar guy.

42:48Matt Roberts:And Matt is a playing to the crowd guy. Matt is a guy that predicted Alexei Popperin to do something at the Australian Open during our Melbourne live show just to win some approval. Right So look, I'm just letting the audience know Take Matt's prediction under advisement

43:10Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, I don't want my Spanish citizenship application to fail Having had to ring my lawyer during my interview I really don't want it to fail on the grounds of underestimating Jaume Muna

43:27Catherine Whitaker:So you think it's going to the doubles? I haven't overall said who I think is going to win I think in the doubles, I think Italy might take it, which maybe makes no logical sense, because if it goes to the doubles, you've got Granollas and Martinez there in form. I just think Vavasori is unbelievable. We can't have seen the things we've seen this year

43:46Matt Roberts:and doubt Andrea Vavasori, though, can we?

43:50David Law:I'd love to see Vavasori and Granollas against one another at the net. Imagine those two.

43:57Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, I guess overall I'm going with Italy and the power in that stadium. So I do think Italy will win.

44:07Matt Roberts:And does that, maybe this is a discussion for tomorrow in our rap show, but would that kind of raise integrity issues for you? The fact that, you know, they are guaranteed to be hosting this thing for three years. They don't have to qualify. They get an automatic pass through to the finals because they are the hosts. And I understand that you want the hosts in the final, but integrity of the competition wise, it's not ideal. And it is a massive advantage to play this thing at home.

44:37Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Like, I really don't think there's that much of a conversation to be had about that. I think that is absolutely an issue.

44:45David Law:Yes.

44:46Catherine Whitaker:I felt it when it was in Spain. OK, Spain didn't take advantage of it. But yes, it's definitely an issue for sure.

44:56Matt Roberts:It would be weird that, again, maybe this is a discussion for tomorrow if this eventuality plays out. But it'd be a very weird thing for Vavasori and Boleli to win that trophy having never had the opportunity to play. You know, it's not like they weren't picked. It's not like they played and lost, but still made a contribution. Like they just never even got the chance to factor in. I don't know. I just think that's a weird place to be.

45:31Catherine Whitaker:It is, again, another potential issue with the format, right? Where doubles players come to the event and they can not play. You know, they can be here all week and not play. And, you know, the doubles is either the most important thing or it's not played at all. And that dynamic, you know, maybe you love that, but it is a bit of a problem like for the players, I think. You know, just coming here, preparing and just maybe not even getting a chance to take to the court. That must be really, really unsatisfactory, I think.

46:10Matt Roberts:And from another point of view, the scenario where, you know, let's say it goes to deciding doubles tomorrow and it ends up hurting Italy that they've won through to the final so easily without needing their doubles because it means that their doubles team are coming in cold and haven't had the chance to play. Do we want that to be a decisive factor in these matches? I don't know. Maybe we save that discussion for tomorrow once we know how this thing plays out. OK, so everyone's going Italy. I think I'm going Italy.

46:44David Law:Do you think we're going to get doubles, Catherine?

46:46Matt Roberts:Both made very compelling cases. I do think, I think, I back Berrettini. I really do. I think he's not letting this thing go. I just think Berrettini is a force of nature in Bologna this week. I agree with Matt that Munar is the one, if one's going to flip. It's Munar. But I'm a Cabali guy now, David.

47:12David Law:Yeah, you said cut me open, I bleed Cabali earlier today.

47:15Matt Roberts:Cut me and I bleed Cabali. You've always said that. So I'm going with David's prediction. I think, sadly, this isn't going to the doubles. I think Italy might do it in the two singles. But Spain won't even consider me for citizenship, so languishing with my Brexit passport. Right, we will be back with a live podcast at the end of it all. Plan A is for that podcast to be at 8pm, but tennis gods laugh at Plan A. So please keep across our social channels, sign up to our newsletter. We will send out alerts notifying you when we know what time the live show will be. subscribe to our YouTube channel and you'll get an alert when we're going live as well.

48:04Matt Roberts:That is the best way to make sure you know when our live show is coming tomorrow. But as close to eight o 'clock as we can, basically tennis permitting. Thank you, tennis. When does it all start?

48:18David Law:It's not an early start like it was today, is it?

48:21Catherine Whitaker:It's an in-between start. It's a three o 'clock local rather than four or twelve, which it's been every other day. They're really keeping us on our toes with the start times. Three o 'clock local is the start time.

48:35Matt Roberts:So if our predictions are right, David, then 8pm could happen. But if Matt's right, then 8pm starts to feel like a slightly more distant dream.

48:45Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, if we go to the doubles, it's a late night live show.

48:49Matt Roberts:Yeah. We'll put the link to the newsletter in the show notes. Subscribe to our Instagram. Subscribe to our YouTube. do all the things and that's the best way to be informed. And we'll be back to talk about all of it with a live show tomorrow to wrap the 2025 season. Of course, we've got more podcasts. It doesn't mean that the tennis podcast wraps the 2025 season, but in terms of live tennis to talk about, that will be it for a full five weeks, folks. Less if you count the next gen finals, which not sure if anybody does but there you go. Don't forget, you can keep up to date with the Davis Cup finals on the Davis Cup Instagram, TikTok and X.

49:35Matt Roberts:You can sign up to the free official Davis Cup newsletter at daviscup.com and you can follow all the action on the newly updated World Cup of Tennis app which brings together the Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup by Cambridge. Search World Cup of Tennis on the app store or Play Store to download for free. Thank you to our mascots. Hello, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Where do we stand on shout outs tonight, Matt?

50:06Catherine Whitaker:I can do them if you'd like me to.

50:09Matt Roberts:Huge news. Yes, please.

50:12Catherine Whitaker:Pumped. Great. So these are the shout outs that were meant to be on the last show, but I'm doing them now. And we have Lisa Toll from Clifton Park, New York.

50:26Matt Roberts:Hello, Lisa.

50:28Catherine Whitaker:Like Lisa Raymond.

50:30Matt Roberts:Lisa Raymond declined for the Tennis Hall of Fame, I saw this week. Ben Rothenberg published a really interesting graphic about all the players that had been put forward but not voted in. It's a far more brutal system than I realised.

50:50David Law:Sterling worked that by Ben, wasn't it?

50:52Matt Roberts:It really was impressive.

50:53David Law:You don't know that stuff. The number of people that had been put forward consecutive years,

50:59Matt Roberts:like some people three consecutive years and rejected three consecutive years.

51:04David Law:Brutal.

51:06Matt Roberts:Sorry, Lisa Raymond. Any other tennis Leases that haven't been rejected by the International Tennis Hall of Fame?

51:13David Law:Our Lisa is not being rejected as a friend and a shout-out.

51:16Matt Roberts:Very much accepted

51:18Catherine Whitaker:And our Lisa is an identical twin And says I can completely relate To the Bryan brothers Because I played with my sister And being a twin is a game changer It totally throws off your opponents

51:31Matt Roberts:I wonder if one's a lefty Or one's a righty They got in last year didn't they

51:36David Law:They got in the Hall of Fame The Brines I always have so many questions

51:42Matt Roberts:For identical twins

51:45David Law:But they'd be good at traitors

51:47Matt Roberts:What a fascinating Way to go through the world Knowing that there's an identical Another version of you But there's also not Like wild Science is wild Lisa Thank you

52:03Catherine Whitaker:Next we have Alan Al Who says Al pronounced as in Ouch like you hurt yourself It's really helpful Alan Cheers Alan Alan from Los Angeles

52:16Matt Roberts:Oh an American flavour on today's show Like the late great Alan Mills Very good David Lifting the covers his autobiography The referee of Wimbledon for so many years Very good Thanks Alan I just started watching a show called I Love LA There you go that's my LA connection Are you good? Hope home to Pamela Howard-Schriver. I'm enjoying it. I think you would hate it.

52:47David Law:Oh.

52:47Matt Roberts:So it's not a recommendation. Why would I hate it? But I do think it's good. It's not.

52:52David Law:I don't think it's your genre. We'll pick this up later.

52:56Matt Roberts:Look up the blurb and you tell me if you think it's something that would interest you.

53:01David Law:Sometimes I like the stuff you like. Sometimes I don't.

53:06Matt Roberts:Yes. I think this would be an example of the latter. Anyway.

53:10David Law:Okay.

53:11Catherine Whitaker:Good to know.

53:12Matt Roberts:Alan, thank you.

53:14Catherine Whitaker:And finally, we have Mark Latimore from Derby in the UK, but originally from Reading.

53:23Matt Roberts:Reading Berkshire, home of the Royals?

53:26Catherine Whitaker:Correct. Also a long-suffering Reading fan, Mark says.

53:32David Law:Oh, Mark.

53:33Matt Roberts:One all draw at home to Rotherham today. It's not glamour. It's not glamour down there in League One.

53:41David Law:At least you've got a good tennis name like Mark Woodford, Philippouces. Knowles. Knowles.

53:49Matt Roberts:Also rejected by the International Tennis Hall of Fame, I think.

53:52David Law:Was he? I know Daniel Nestor was.

53:54Matt Roberts:Oh, maybe it was Nestor. Yeah. And then maybe they thought we won't try with Knowles.

53:59David Law:Nestor more than once, according to Ben's grid. Oh, brutal. Yeah, the X is just brutal, isn't it? So, so, so. a Reading person.

54:12Matt Roberts:Is that the first? Have we had Reading people before?

54:15David Law:Yes. Yes. Have we? Oh, yes. People are very pleased when they can tell you that they're...

54:21Matt Roberts:From Reading?

54:22David Law:Reading people. I wonder what school Mark went to.

54:25Matt Roberts:Let me know, Mark.

54:26David Law:Cheers, Mark.

54:28Matt Roberts:Mark, Al and Lisa, thank you ever so much for being friends with the Tennis Podcast. Thank you all for listening. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will be back tomorrow with a live show at the end of the Davis Cup final between Spain and Italy. We'll speak to you then.