French Open Day 6 - Djokovic downed as Fonseca comes of age

21:42Catherine Whitaker:Big for David.

21:44Matt Roberts:It will be moving. I've got fans galore, David. We're set up.

21:51Catherine Whitaker:I don't need the air conditioning as much as Catherine, to be honest. But like, you know, it's unlikely to be 30 degrees for a whole week like it has been here. and that will help, I think, as well, Novak Djokovic. Yeah, I totally feel good about Novak Djokovic going into Wimbledon.

22:14Matt Roberts:What about Fonseca then, David? You seem, I mean, high on Fonseca generally long-term, but you're clearly limiting expectations, maybe even hope, for how much further he might go in that tournament. Is that because you feel a kind of responsibility, you know, for this 19 year old kid that is now going to have all the casuals paying attention to him and going, well, he's beaten Novak Djokovic. She's probably going to go on and win the French Open. You know, look at what Guga did back in 1997. He was way lower ranked than Fonseca. This will be a breeze for him, right? Everybody else is lost. Like, are you kind of trying to a little bit correct for that hype?

23:02Do you know what I mean?

23:03Matt Roberts:Because I think there's a part of you that thinks he can win this.

23:07David Law:Oh. I mean, the truth is, Catherine, we're now at a stage, I keep having to look around and remind myself that Yannick Sinner isn't here and Novak Djokovic isn't here and Karna Sarkaraj isn't here. That changes the equation for everybody. because it's when you did your intro, like Matt, you really have to almost, did I hear that right? That there's going to be a new major champion at this tournament. We're not even halfway through. You know, we know that that is the case. So logically thinking, my brain goes, well, Joao Fonseca's really green still. He has made significant strides. I think as an overall tennis player the last year, even though he's maybe not as exciting as I thought a year ago when I thought he could actually win this tournament like a Boris Becker or somebody, but he's actually developed as a player.

24:09David Law:He's actually become a much more consistent player. Loved talking to him today in the press conference. He's such an analytical guy and very considered. so I think he's improved I also have to think well he's also come back from two sets to love down twice in a row when's that catching up with him surely it will um in in my logical mind and then I think well yeah but without those three around now why not him you know and that's the I feel like that about quite a few really and he's also now going to take on somebody else

24:44Matt Roberts:in the next round who's had his own pretty circuitous route to get there and has expended a lot of energy. Okay, has a lot more experience, Kasper Rood, but he's deployed an awful lot more energy than he would have wanted to getting to this stage. I guess, look, there was a big question mark over the physical bounce back for Joel Fonseca. He's never been in this position. We don't know. He doesn't know, I don't think, about the bounce back. There's also the psychological and emotional bounce back, isn't there? How on earth do you sort of tell your nervous system that this isn't the summit of the mountain, that beating Novak Djokovic with all of that Brazilian support in those circumstances and all of that adrenaline, how do you tell your nervous system this isn't it, this isn't the top?

25:33There's maybe four more of these to go.

25:38David Law:And also, even just physically, we've seen it now. We saw it with Lander Luthe, didn't we, yesterday, when he went two sets down and he won three games. And he came back and won because his body seemed to be so stiff after his exertions.

25:52Matt Roberts:Wait till we get on to Jakub Menchik, David. Well, exactly.

25:54David Law:You know, it's almost like players are losing a first set, 6-1 or something, before their body wakes up after these sort of matches.

26:01Matt Roberts:Well, Ruud and Fonseca can't both do that in the next draft.

26:05David Law:No, but Ruud is used to this. his body is weathered in that regard. You know, he knows what's coming. He knows he's had two of those matches. I just, that isn't really a question mark in my mind. Even if Djokovic had won in three sets, I don't think I'd have been thinking, oh, Rude's played five sets again. You know, I expect him to come out in two days and be fine physically. Fonseca's going to have to knock him off the court or play him off the court. I think that's a big ask.

26:34Matt Roberts:But regardless, even if he loses in the next round, what you've learned about Joel Fonseca tonight is enough to make you feel as you did a year ago about his prospects?

26:50David Law:I don't know about as high as that because I think I was being a bit silly a year ago. But I'm really impressed with him because the other thing is I'm impressed with him as a human being because of people like me and all the hype and all the stuff he has to, as lovely as it is to have all this Brazilian sport, it is a lot. And he handles it so well. And actually, I don't think that's going to be a problem. I don't even, the nervous system thing you mentioned is totally logical. I actually think he's going to be all right with that. I think the danger is hitting the wall physically and knowing that you've got to be able to live with a guy like Kasper Rude, who's not 39 for best of five sets.

27:33Catherine Whitaker:I think for me, what this win does is it just quietens down the counter noise that had risen up in response to the Fonseca hype. There'd been quite a lot of people saying, oh, he's overhyped and he's not that good and his ceiling's not that high, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think this match today will just make that go away you know because you see you know ceiling is incredible of of the game and he's done it under the biggest pressure against you know one of the all-time greats like he's just answered so many questions there and i think people now will if they didn't already realize what this guy's got and how special he he could be you know like that was that was very much novat djokovic's point in the press conference he's got everything he needs he seems to have a really good work ethic and team around him a lot of talents and you know all of that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he's going to become a world number one and win multiple majors and all that kind of kind of stuff but he's doing the right things and that's that's how i feel about fonseca and it is special that it's that he's had this moment at rodon garros because of the guga connection like the brazilian connection to this tournament like you know if he'd done that at any any of the other grand slams it would have been amazing but it wouldn't have sounded like it sounded and looked like it looked you know it was so special

29:15Matt Roberts:a match that reached its conclusion just before 9pm, just as Caspar Rood and Tommy Paul were getting going over on Longland on the other side of Roland Garros. And little did we know that the evening would end up developing into a sort of mini version of Australian Open Men's Semi-Finals Day. It felt like, well, we've had our fun. We are totally overstimulated, but at least we can catch our breath now. Enter Caspar Rood and his own fight back from Two Sets to Love Down against poor old Tommy Paul. David and I came back to the apartment to order the galettes before all of the restaurants closed.

30:01Matt stayed on, on site to watch the end of this live on Longland,

30:06Matt Roberts:came through the doors of the apartment after walking home and said, Tommy Paul is going to have nightmares.

30:16Catherine Whitaker:yeah i stand by it you know um he'd built this two sets to love leads he had a couple of match points in the fourth set that tommy paul didn't take those i think rude played them really well and then closed that game with his own fonseca style back-to-back aces and took it to that fifth and you know there was a point at the start of that fifth set where i actually thought rude might run away with it i think paul was thinking about those match points and the lead that he'd lost and rude went up a break and paul was pretty frustrated he he broke a racket and got a got a warning for that you know like it was it was feeling like it wasn't going to be a particularly close fifth set to me but almost like going three love down helped paul just reset and And then he started to play really well on his own terms, got it back level.

31:11Catherine Whitaker:And then at five all, Paul had multiple break points on the Rude serve that would have left him serving for the match. And the forehand, the Tommy Paul forehand broke down, you know, like these two players, Rude and Paul have got opposite. They've kind of got opposite ground strokes, you know, like for Paul. his reliable shot is his two-handed backhand it's money he hits it flat he can take it both directions it's brilliant but the forehand is a bit it's a bit flaky and for rude it's the other way around you know the backhand can be exploited but the forehand is such a weapon and in that kind of matchup men's tennis i'm kind of taking the guy with the bigger forehand you know the so much of men's tennis is one with four hands and rude's got a much better forehand than paul and paul's broke down you know error after error on those break points and then he's five six down and he's 40 love up he looks to be cruising to a tie break final set tie break the final crescendo of the evening and again it's the forehand that goes and costs him and rude comes up with some big shots of his own and gets it done and it's a it's an incredible win for rude you know i thought rude was out of this tournament a couple of rounds ago when he looked like a ghost on court and had no energy and was drained and then here again he looked down and out he he's living on the edge this tournament but i wonder whether that feeling might galvanize him and help him he played the big points well down the stretch today and look him and Zverev to me are pretty neck and neck in terms of favourites for this title, I'd give the slight extra Zverev because of his greater consistency generally but they've both got experience of three grand slam finals and they're both in the same half of the draw and it's a massive opportunity for everyone left in this draw but I think particularly those two.

33:32Catherine Whitaker:Rude and Zverev to me feel slightly separated from everyone else. So then what if I told you that there are bookies out there, odds makers, that have Rafael Holdar as the favourite for the men's title right now?

33:50Catherine Whitaker:I wouldn't agree with that. I don't think it's outrageous.

33:54Matt Roberts:No, I don't either. But I don't agree with it. But that is the case.

33:58Catherine Whitaker:I didn't see a lot of Hodder today. David, I know you watched most of this match against Mickelson.

34:04Matt Roberts:To be honest, I thought Hodder was gone after he dropped the second set. It was only a set apiece at this point. Hodder took the first on a tiebreak and lost the second on a tiebreak. But I was backing Alex Mickelson from that point on. The Hodder body language was bad. I was very worried about him physically. there was an incident with a ball kid that we'll come on to talk about kind of separately. But, yeah, I kind of thought he was as down and out as Kaspar Rude after going two sets of love down, you know, and it was only a set apiece. Like, I mean, incredible effort from him, aided a little bit by physical issues for Alex Mickelson.

34:46I mean, yeah, your assessment of Raphael Holdar today and how fanciful talk of him potentially winning this title is, David?

34:57David Law:Well, I think the first thing to say is if Tommy Paul's going to have nightmares tonight, I think Alex Mickelson will have some regrets. I don't think he will be as haunted as Paul will be, but I think he will feel like he probably should have won this match. I think he was the better player for the first two sets, in all honesty, and he only won one of those and then he won the third set as well um missed some chances we did see Hodder really put on the afterburners in the first set tie break he was too loved down he won the next seven points but at no point in this match and no real point in this this last two matches that I've seen has he looked like the player who raced through the Barcelona and Madrid draws and was just destroying the ball and really hurting everybody he was on the back foot most of the time against Mickelson who's got a sweet backhand I mean Mickelson really carries himself with some presence now he's he's clearly balked up a little bit in the shoulders I suspect he's he's just growing into his body a bit more I'm sure he's doing the weights and that sort of thing as well but he he has real presence out on the court and and he was bossing the rallies like the aggression more to me.

36:18David Law:Hodder was responding to it and showed great grit today. I did think this was a little bit similar to Fonseca. He learned something about himself. He learned that he could come back from two sets to one down, sort of last physically. I mean, this is well over four hours and just come back and win it in five. It was a real achievement for him. but I that's not what I was signing up to when I was thinking of him as a potential finalist at this tournament which I did think he was I did I did sort of look at that half the draw and Zverev's there and I and look he's due to face very in the quarters if they get that far and if if Hodal is okay to bounce back freshness wise and and and take on public arena buster and win that match without expending too much.

37:10David Law:I'd love to see him feeling fresh against Zverev. I think that would be fascinating because I think he's got the sort of game, certainly that I saw a couple of months ago, that really is not what Zverev wants to be playing against because he's got the weapons. But he just hasn't looked like that so far. This match reminded me extraordinarily of the one that Carlos Alcraz played against Albert Ramos Vinalas on the same court. I think it was four, five years ago. And it was almost identical scoreline. Two sets to one down, came back and one in five. And then played Zverev, I think, in the quarters, and Zverev beat him, beat Alcaraz.

37:54David Law:So I think it is fanciful, to be honest, Catherine, to think of Hodder as the favourite in this draw. When you've got Zverev and when you've got Kasparud, I think I definitely have them ahead of him at the moment.

38:06Matt Roberts:But he's in the mix.

38:08David Law:Yeah, he's in the mix.

38:09Matt Roberts:In a way that Fonseca isn't saying. I mean, there's people out there putting literally everybody in the mix at this point.

38:16David Law:But that is such an interesting, you know, it's not something we've talked about yet. But isn't it interesting? Who is in the mix? How deep is the mix?

38:23Catherine Whitaker:I was thinking we could do that tomorrow when we've got 16 players left.

38:28David Law:Yeah, I'd be fascinated to go through that with you guys about that. But I would say that Hoddan needs to rediscover the guy he was six weeks ago, who hits just winners galore. At the moment, in my mind, he's behind those other couple. And probably behind Felix Auger, I see him in the other half of the draw because he doesn't have quite as many players to get through. I mean, I'm worried about him physically in the same way that I'm worried about Fonseca physically.

39:03Matt Roberts:It's such an unknown quantity. It's incredible that he is fighting through these five setters, but it feels like there's a wall there looming somewhere. I don't know exactly where it is, but it feels like there has to be one. The difference is for Holdar compared to Fonseca is that, all due respect, he's got Pablo Grenier-Buster in the next round, which feels a significantly better situation than having Caspar Rude in the next round. But look, maybe Pablo Grenier-Buster's in the mix at this point. It's one of them tournaments. Just to say, I hinted at it a moment ago, there was an incident very much doing the rounds on social media of Rafael Hoda when he went off court at the end of that second set.

39:49It's a bit awkward on Simone Machaud. You have to sort of go off in the corner of the court. There's a ball kid positioned there. The footage is inconclusive. A couple of camera angles looks different from both of them. There is certainly one camera angle that makes it look like he sort of pushes the ball kid out of the way in his haste to get to the exit and get off court. The other angle makes it look like that is not what happens and the ball kid sort of happens to stumble, kind of as a result of clearly noticing that Hodder is, you know, charging towards her and getting desperate to get out of this door and there's definitely a sort of irritable swipe of the hand from him.

40:28He was asked about it in his press. He adamantly denies that he pushed the girl and I'm absolutely prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. Quite frankly, this is a young kid and there is not conclusive evidence, I would just say that there have been a few incidents of Rafael Holdar in the past few weeks being a bit rash

40:52Matt Roberts:with ball kids that I think someone could do with just having a word with him about. I think perhaps that's why this is blowing up quite a lot because he had gained a bit of a reputation and maybe people aren't as inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. he's extremely young this is his first go around this thing he's carrying the stress of people talking about him being a title contender I'm prepared to cut him a lot of slack but I do think he could he could do with nipping that sort of thing in the bud yeah I completely agree I felt

41:31Catherine Whitaker:like a video assistant referee looking at the various angles earlier and did Hodder where's Kevin Friend when he did. Did Hodder, you know, push the ball kid or did the ball kid trip? I need another angle, please. Another angle. Slow it down. But, yeah, no, look, I agree with you. I do think the ball kid tripped over the cover, the tarp, at the back of the court. More on that later. but I did also see some clips of Hodder, you know, being chippy around the ball kids and asking for stuff very quickly and getting a bit irritated with them and I totally agree with what you've said. He's young, he's learning but cut that out, I think.

42:21Just on a serious note about, well, not that it's not serious but just on a sort of tennis-related note, he's been asked about that in press. You know, this is a kid that's never done any of this before. I don't know how online he is, but I kind of hope not very online because there is a lot of negative stuff out there around this incident. And he had to defend himself in press and deny that he's pushed a young girl. Like, I don't know enough about him and his personality and temperament to know if that's going to affect him, but it certainly could. It certainly could, I think. Goodness me, still so much tennis to talk about.

43:02Let's rattle on through these results. So Hoda to face Pablo Kareña Busta in the next round. Andrei Rublev won today. Straight sets for him against Nuno Borges. Big opportunity for him to reach a first major quarterfinal in more than two years. He hasn't dramatically dropped off a cliff, Andrei Rublev, so it's just not something we've talked about. He's just sort of slowly stayed still while the game's moved on, although he is definitely trying to evolve his game. That is a project. And if he progresses in this tournament, then perhaps that's something we can talk more about because it is interesting.

43:41He's got Jakub Mensik in the fourth round for a place in the quarterfinals. A lot of weird things happened today at Roland Garros. I'm not sure much weirder happened than Jakub Mensik, losing the opening set to Alex de Menor, six love, winning just five points in the entire set, and then going on to win the match, 6-2, 6-2, 6-3. That is bonkers. I mean, I didn't see any of that opening set because all sorts of things were happening, but I immediately tuned in, having seen the school line, thinking, well, I assume he's going to retire. I'll tune into this and have a look and, you know, kind of a bit morbid of me, but, you know, wait and see when the inevitable retirement comes.

44:35I was not expecting three straightforward sets from that point onwards. And, you know, Menship was pretty upfront about it. Afterwards, he said it was super tough to turn my body on again today.

44:51David Law:We know that feeling. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, you know, being stiff when you wake up in the morning. And he said, I just needed time to get going. And I did. Very interesting Alex de Manor quotes at the end of the match, because this could not be less of an Alex de Manor scoreline. And he knows that. He's having a bit of an existential crisis. I get the sense. He said, I'm usually the dog with a bone guy. And today I took my foot off the gas and I let it go. and that's been happening a lot recently. He said in a very dejected way, he said, I feel like you only get so many opportunities in your career and you've got to be ready to take them and when you don't, it's gut-wrenching.

45:36David Law:Especially when Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcraz aren't around. I think that is that subtext there, you know, and that is, I feel like that quote could be, you know, could replace victoire par tient plus opinatre for the remainder of this tournament, you know, being emblazoned around court Philippe Châtrier, you only get so many opportunities, you've got to be ready to take them. That's the story of the remainder of this men's tournament, kind of, right? Who can grasp the opportunity and not make, not let the magnitude of it drown them? and it's interesting because that's an interesting insight i think into how dimanore

46:25Catherine Whitaker:views himself within the ecosystem of men's tennis you know like kind of no matter the tournament or surface takes you know and alcaraz out i think dimanore probably thinks he can he can win that event personally on clay at the french open even with sinu and alcaraz out i don't know i wasn't really thinking about alex dimon or partly because of the form he's been in and i suppose he's the way he's talking about there and the fact that this has kind of happened

46:58Matt Roberts:throughout the season it's the manner of the loss i think yes so not him yes um it's an identity crisis i think actually for him yeah it sounds like yeah but yeah look it is a it is a lost

47:13Catherine Whitaker:opportunity but i suppose i would i would be thinking more about dimanore if this had happened in australia right you know maybe even wimbledon on those on those surfaces missed opportunity for karen hashanov the 11th seed a guy that we've thought of in the past as somebody that pops up and performs at slams. Today, he lost to lucky loser, Jesper de Jong. 7-5, 5-7, 6-2, 6-7, 6-2. Jesper de Jong, David. Where on earth does this come from?

47:48David Law:Yes. I'm going to view it as more Jesper de Jong taking an opportunity rather than Karen Hatchinov losing it. Even though I think it's fair enough to see it like that. I mean, he played a five-set the other day against Trinjeliti. And, yes, but De Jong has been doing the same thing. I mean, my word, there have been a lot of long matches at this tournament so far. But De Jong is somebody that's often sparkled in defeat against big names. And he actually pointed out in the press conference, well, one of the reasons I'm doing better is because I haven't played Yannick Sinner, Carlos Alcres or Alexander Zverev in the second round.

48:30David Law:um but he's also put a lot of work in he said i've invested my money in a site in a psychologist in and also in a in breathing exercises um which which have helped him a lot um but you know this is a huge breakthrough for him huge breakthrough moment and what what fascinates me is if if somebody like him without any baggage, without any bad news might be the one to come along. But again, is he going to hit the wall? Because he's just, he should have won this match in four sets and he ended up losing it and then doing a brilliant job to reset and win the fifth. So yeah, I mean, I do, I can see missed opportunity for Hatchinov, but yeah, I I'm quite excited for Dion.

49:23He's got Zverev next. We just watched Zverev beat Conta Alice in four sets, was two sets up, seemed to be cruising. Alice got a bit of a, well, kind of a first wind, actually, of the match. He finally found it, didn't he? And was, you know, had Zverev rocking there for a moment. And given the sort of landscape of the day and the draw, you started to think, oh, hang on, like a weird thing could happen here because weird things are happening. But in the end, the match kind of followed the template that you would have expected.

49:58David Law:Yeah, and I think what Zverev's doing well is using his experience very professionally to get an early break when opponents are nervous. And Elyse just was always trying to catch up. And that's going to be the interesting thing for Zverev if he ends up playing Kasparud, who may not allow him that.

50:22Matt Roberts:Okay, that is it for part one. It is 10 to 2 in the morning. Just two parts to go, folks. How are we feeling?

50:29David Law:Feeling great. It's been an awesome day. Thank goodness for adrenaline. That's it for part one. We'll be back in part two in just a moment.

50:38Matt Roberts:Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. On to the women's matches now and some incredible fourth rounds that have been set up today. not least Marta Kostchuk against Iga Svantec. It is on. Svantec might be about to run the Ukrainian gauntlet that we kind of circled when the draw came out a week ago. Kostchuk today 6-4, 6-3 over Victoria Golubich and Svantec 6-4, 6-4 over Magda Lynette. I thought for Kostchuk today, I watched a lot of this one, by no means her best performance, And it's kind of the sort of match that she might have lost in the past. Quite frankly, one of those like, oh, she's so talented.

51:21Matt Roberts:Why isn't it quite happening? She should be beating players like this, but she's not. But I just had confidence in her throughout to win not on her best day. And I realised that we've adjusted to a new normal with Marta Kostya quite quickly because we didn't used to feel like that about her even quite recently. And it's nice. It's really nice feeling that way about Marta Kostiuk. I think that's great news.

51:48David Law:Yeah, I think at Grand Slams that for players like her, that is the key. That is the separator that she's been looking for all these years. Yes, it looks great, this game. And look at the athleticism and look at the match she's just won at a smaller tournament. But Grand Slams are different. You're not going to play great all the time. You've got to find ways to just be economical and get through. And here she is now. She's in the big match. This is when she needs her best stuff.

52:18Matt Roberts:And I loved her saying in the press conference afterwards how much she has been wanting to play Yiga Svantec for a while. I feel like she's like, I'm a different player now. I want to test myself against Yiga Svantec on clay. And I love the attitude towards this upcoming match. She was very, the message was, I'm the underdog. Like she was really positioning herself as heavy underdog, heavy underdog that has a chance. And she believes she has a chance, but also, you know, was keen to take the pressure off. She didn't love questions about her streak that she's on and being unbeaten on clay. It was very much, yeah, it's gone really well, but this is eager to take a role on Garros, folks.

53:06Matt Roberts:like winning Madrid doesn't necessarily mean anything here. And she actually gave some very good analysis of how different conditions are in Madrid to, in particular, Roland Garros and how slow it is here, even in these hot conditions, how slow it is compared to Madrid. But she said, although she way preferred the court speed of Madrid and the speed of the ball through the air, the higher bounce here suits her. So it's kind of swings and roundabouts. And I give her a chance against Viontech. Heavy favourite, but I give her a chance.

53:42Catherine Whitaker:I think the way she's positioned herself there as underdog, but feeling good about her game and with a chance, is about as dangerous as it gets, really. Because I thought today in this match against Golubic, she was on court for it, the first set. I was thinking calm down like you're pressing too much here she was the better player she had the she had the greater weight of shot she's got more game than golly bitch you know um and you know went up a break lost it fell down a break and I just thought wow she's playing as a favorite here and wasn't able therefore to quite free up but I do think against Fiontech that is different because she will be the underdog.

54:33Catherine Whitaker:She's on a 15-match win streak on clay and yet that pales in comparison to what Egan Svantec has done at this tournament and therefore Svantec will go in as the favourite and I think Kostya is going to relish that and I think she's going to play really well and I think Svantec is going to have to play better than she has done this tournament so far. I think she's done enough in the matches she's played Are you worried about her serve? Yes, I am. I've got a stat in the newsletter about her serving numbers, which, you know, just sort of compare the first few rounds of this tournament to when she's won it in the past a little bit.

55:15Catherine Whitaker:And, yeah, I am because players are breaking her, you know, and Kostya is such a great returner. She returns with such intent, likes to take the ball early, likes to attack. but if I had to pick I guess I would still just about go Sviantec. Wow that close yeah I really think it's close because Kosti is playing so well and I think she merits being talked about in terms of someone who can really push Igor Sviantec. You've been everywhere today Matt I feel like all of these matches I'm going through in this agenda, like Matt was there. How was Matt there? How is, how are you not a sweaty mess? Like you were at Teichman Mukova as well, right?

56:09Catherine Whitaker:Oh, I had a great time. Tell us about it. 6-1-7-5 for Teichman over poor Karolina Mukova and her blisters. Yeah, say that. I say I had a great time. I did feel very sorry for Mukova in this one. it felt like she'd been ambushed when i got out there to court suzanne longland she was a set down i thought how is she set down to tight man you know and yet as soon as i got there i thought oh this is how because tight man had a had a cheer squad she had a fan club next to the court You know, like she, there's big player boxes, player areas on Longland. And Teichman had filled hers up with her friends, basically.

56:57Catherine Whitaker:She said it was in the interview, in the press conference afterwards, she talked about how her brother's been here the whole tournament and had a little fan club going. But for this big match, all her friends flew in this morning and they had songs, chants, and they were going through them one after one. It felt like they were the away team at a football match winning and just going through their chants and mocking the home team that in this instance was Paul Mooka. I've seen that before.

57:25Matt Roberts:It was extraordinary. Would you do that for me? If I was in the third round of the French Open. Get some chants going.

57:31David Law:Would you fly in and script some chants?

57:37Matt Roberts:I'm all there. And get them going. I'm all there. David would just be shouting, Baggies!

57:43Catherine Whitaker:It looks so fun. Everyone in that box was having a great time. And they kept it going even when she was 5-1 down in the second set. You know, because Mukova did turn it around and start playing the better tennis. But it didn't feel like 5-1, really. Teichmann had had chances to break on a couple of occasions. And it was at 5-2 when Mukova had the treatment for her blisters. And from that point onwards, Mukova moved less dynamically around the court, started going for broke a little bit more on her shots and tight man just kept believing and she's got a she's a lefty tight man and she's got this forehand that can kick up to the muka of a back can and muka was having to slice it a lot of the time and not getting a lot on it and tight man was was really taking advantage of it and yeah it was i i didn't go over there expecting the vibes that I ended up experiencing and they were basically all coming from that Teichman box and she was whipping them up and getting them to support her ever more.

58:48Catherine Whitaker:But with a glint in her eye and a smile on her face she just she loved it. You could tell she was absolutely loving that moment and it did remind me of Billie Jean King cut Teichman from a few years ago which was. Where's she been? Where's she been?

59:02David Law:Well she told us. Yeah that was my question to her in the press comments you know it's it's four years ago when she reached the fourth round of Ronan Garros and she reached the semi-finals in Madrid she reached the quarterfinals in Rome I mean these are proper results in a clay court season and had that great uh results uh in Billie Jinkin Cup as well I said what has happened to you in the intervening four years and she says well it could take quite a long time to explain that but i'll do my best for you and the gist is she's played and loved tennis all of her life and then it all became a bit too much for her is what i got from it that trying her best to be professional every week and to wring out every last drop of potential in her game working hard um and not really getting the results that she wanted and and she was in the top 100 but she wasn't enjoying it in the way that she had and all the way that she wanted to so um I think it was late last year or earlier this year she just decided to stop altogether she just had a period of time not being a tennis player at all didn't hit the ball wasn't wasn't injured at that time in a way that would need to stop her but just wanted to get away from it all and and so she said i went surfing and i went skiing and i went to to berlin and saw a friend of mine for a few days and she's got most of her her coaching team from argentina you know and she's sort of she just wanted to live nor in a normal way for a bit and not be a tennis player so that when she came back to it her appetite would be there again a love for the game would be back there again you could see i felt that it is there i mean obviously it's easy when you've just had a huge win like that but i don't think it's a coincidence gosh what a story yeah it was

1:00:58Catherine Whitaker:really interesting she was so open and upfront about it wasn't she and yeah i i felt she was a sort of effectively describing burnout and and she said i gave myself time which you know tennis players you know they do have time for themselves but it's career focused you know and it's one tournament and then another especially at that ranking around you know around 100 on the women's tour it's not easy yeah you know it's stressful and i think just stepping back federation behind

1:01:34Matt Roberts:you you might not be making a living at 100 in the world on the wta right so just being able to

1:01:40Catherine Whitaker:stepped back from it for it was a few months i think you know we're not talking a sort of huge break here but but enough and yeah she seems to have come back rejuvenated and yeah it was it was brilliant to see as sad as i was for mukava teichman well shooting star i'm pleased that

1:01:59Matt Roberts:there's such a sort of positive side to a mukava going out early story which just sort of always makes my heart sink, especially seeing, I know it's only blisters, but seeing her get any kind of assistance from the medical staff makes me jumpy. Shout out the ball kid that held up a privacy towel, like a little privacy curtain around her feet while she was receiving treatment on the blisters. This is an important new development for tennis. We don't need to see the disgusting feet.

1:02:31Catherine Whitaker:Cosign.

1:02:32Matt Roberts:Yeah, no wicky feet for Karolina Mukova.

1:02:36David Law:Can I also just suggest, Catherine, that you maybe follow Jill Teitman around a bit because she's the first person I've seen at this tournament who has been cold. Yes. She had just come out. I can't hear about that. She had just come out of the ice bath and she was sitting there in the press conference room shivering, wasn't she?

1:02:54Matt Roberts:Actually, Andrei Rublev did that a couple of days ago as well and they almost walked out in disgust. I can't. like give me an ice bath

1:03:03David Law:I couldn't do an ice bath I could

1:03:05Matt Roberts:I could sit and sit and have my laptop at the moment if you converted my desk area if you plunged my seat into an ice bath I would spend the day in it

1:03:18David Law:I'm not sure that the old laptop would be looking too good after that I'd jump out my skin if I went in an ice bath

1:03:25Matt Roberts:I don't think they make them big enough so we're probably safe It's Mirand Draver next for Jill Teichman. She beat Buzkova today, 6-4, 6-2. Very drama-free run through this tournament so far, Andraver. I know bigger tests lie ahead.

1:03:41Catherine Whitaker:I think the biggest test might be Teichman's fan club. They could rile her up. They could make it a bit Lois Boisson.

1:03:48David Law:Well, and the rest, you know. She lost one at the US Open as well, an issue with the crowd going. It's been a tough scene for her the last year. But, I mean, it's a relatively small group. They just punch above their weight and their songs go, Oh, Jill Teichman, et cetera.

1:04:06Matt Roberts:You've got to have a name that fits into that melody, haven't you? They were happy to use it. I think mine's a bit long.

1:04:12David Law:It is a bit.

1:04:12Matt Roberts:I think you'd need to write something bespoke.

1:04:15David Law:Catherine, where'd you go?

1:04:18Matt Roberts:Okay, well, we'll workshop that. I think we've got time before I reach a Grand Slam third round. We'll work on some songs. to work on it.

1:04:27Catherine Whitaker:It was old Julia Pelka when she hit an ace. Which I enjoyed.

1:04:34David Law:How does a Pelka get in the ice bath? Anyway, move on.

1:04:39Matt Roberts:So, Teichmann against Andreva. We also have a fourth round of Saronica Steyer against Wang Ji-Yu. So, Wang Ji-Yu has come through qualifying and reached the second week. So, that's a six-match winning streak for her. Beat Yulia Starob Dubbedseva today 6-3, 7-5. Saranaka Steyer continues her utterly extraordinary retirement year at the age of 36. She beat Solana Sierra today. Six love, six love.

1:05:10Catherine Whitaker:Didn't see it. Was obviously tracking the score. Something Matt Roberts didn't see. I'll be honest, I didn't see the rest of the day's play. Everything else on this agenda is something I didn't see.

1:05:21Matt Roberts:Okay. Well, if anybody's still listening, let's carry on. Alina Svitolina's victory over Tamara Korpach, 6-2, 6-3. Did you see Tamara Korpach walk out at the start of this match, Matt?

1:05:36Catherine Whitaker:I did. She had the shades on.

1:05:38Matt Roberts:Yeah, she had Luciano Darderi shades on. I know that's her thing. She plays in them, but she was standing in this dark tunnel pre-match wearing the shades, and it was all...

1:05:48Catherine Whitaker:That's our Tamara.

1:05:49Matt Roberts:It was very Luciano Darderi. She's got a great dog, as Tamara Korpach. Great dog. That's what I learned. She's gone up in your estimation. She has a bit. I mean, I wasn't quite sure about the tennis today, but the dog was a 10 out of 10.

1:06:05David Law:I saw Catherine blank a dog today on the way back home.

1:06:08Matt Roberts:I was ordering galettes.

1:06:11David Law:That wouldn't normally stop you, though.

1:06:13Matt Roberts:But the restaurants were closing.

1:06:15David Law:Right.

1:06:16Matt Roberts:I was deadline Djokovic.

1:06:18David Law:The dog chased us and everything.

1:06:20Matt Roberts:Yeah, they know. They know I'm their people. They do, yeah. Yeah.

1:06:24David Law:Wow.

1:06:25Matt Roberts:It was a one-off. Very unique circumstances. Svitolina, I just, I mean, look, she was great today. It was all very, very no-nonsense. I saw Andrew Bettles briefly, her coach after the match, actually, and he was, you know, I was with Pam Shriver, name drop. But Pam congratulated Andrew Bettles and said, you know, you're doing a brilliant job. and he was like, well, it's easy when the person you're responsible for is Alina Svitolina. Like, yeah, she makes it easy for me to do a good job. She was stretching out her back a little bit in the start of the second set. She was fine, but it was only Tamara Korpach.

1:07:10Matt Roberts:Like, I've just circled that. I've just put a pin in that. Could be nothing. But she has played a lot of tennis. so I'm just cautiously mentioning that because she's got Belinda Bencic next and that is a step up. I know this isn't Bencic's preferred surface but she can play on it.

1:07:31David Law:This has certainly made a mockery of my Peyton Stearns to beat her prediction.

1:07:36Matt Roberts:Is that what you had today?

1:07:37David Law:I did, yeah. I've had a couple of shockers.

1:07:40Matt Roberts:Do you remember the guy in the chat of one of our live shows just over a year ago? I do. I was absolutely insistent that Peyton Stearns was going to win the French Open.

1:07:49David Law:Maybe he meant 20...

1:07:50Matt Roberts:No, she lost today, didn't he?

1:07:52David Law:2032.

1:07:53Matt Roberts:Oh, okay. Maybe. Maybe he's not wrong, he's just early. Like you with Fonseca.

1:07:59Catherine Whitaker:He was called Ghost of Geralitis. Yeah. Good name. Maybe he just hasn't got a clue. Yeah, I think that. She went out in the first round, didn't she, last year? Last bit of business to cover from the women's draw today. happened in the doubles early doors. Zeynep Sonmez, the Turkish player who actually I interviewed for Tennis Podcast Meets on the eve of this tournament, she went out in the first round in the singles but was in doubles action today and she had an awful fall at the back of the court, tripping over one of these sponsor advertising blocks that they have at the back of the court. They serve no other purpose than to display the name and logo of the sponsor.

1:08:47And, you know, we've discussed in other contexts this week the fact that a lot of these outside courts don't have as much space at the back of them as a lot of players would like. You know, they are making full use of the space and they don't want to be thinking about, you know, whether they could trip over something at the back of the court. and people have been doing that. We had Alexander Blocks tripping over the covers, the tarps at the back of the court. He apparently is considering legal action about that because his injury seems to be quite bad. Today we had Zeynep Somers tripping seemingly really badly at the back of the court and Katie Bolter picked up on this on social media.

1:09:31She clearly had a very near miss in her match against Potapova yesterday. and she said these things have to go in Cats. She said, I got lucky last night, but next time I might not be. And this was something that, you know, as a result of Katie Bolter and other players getting involved, did gather a real head of steam over the course of the day, such that the tournament responded with a statement earlier on this evening. They said the Roland Garros tournament organisers have taken note of some of the players' feedback regarding to the court set up. We have taken this feedback into account and are maintaining ongoing communication with the players and their teams.

1:10:11The stadium complex was modernised during the 2018-19 season. All Roland Garros courts currently exceed the international circuit minimum requirements regarding the distance between the baseline and the back of the court, which is set at 6.4 metres. However, the tournament's priority remains the wellbeing of the players taking part. With this in mind and based on our own observations, adjustments are currently being made to the area around the playing surface. So like a really sort of defensive paragraph and then a, okay, but we'll change it, which is totally the right outcome. Definitely the least funny of the two FFT statements that we're going to be reading out on today's show.

1:10:55That is a hint of what is to come in part three. We'll see you there. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. It's been another bumper one. Do you remember, David, on the little Instagram video we did on the walk-in today when you promised a calmer day? Oh, yeah.

1:11:13David Law:I can't get everything right. I'm offering you the option to ditch Muscatara the day today. Sure. There were no singles winners. We do have three doubles options. There's an Edouard Roger Vasselin. There's a Kiki Miladenevic. There's a Drogué Gaston pairing. Those are your options. or you can give it to Conte Alise for winning a set against Alexander Zverev.

1:11:37Catherine Whitaker:I have no strong feelings. Happy to ditch. Another opportunity missed to give it to a woman. I think Matt's showing his true colours. Yeah, we'll ditch it. OK, let's move on, shall we? Just before we get to tomorrow's order of play, a story that, again, gathered a real head of steam over the course of today. My jaw dropped to the floor when I saw this break in Clay magazine last night. Adolfo Daniel Vallejo, remember him? Got beaten by Moisa Kwame in five sets yesterday. Well, he had things to say after that match. Those things being that the match should have been umpired by a man because women find working with a demanding crowd quote, very difficult, quote, this sort of match needs to be umpired by a man.

1:12:35It's very difficult for a woman to do it. It has to be refereed by a man because it's a very demanding crowd and you need a lot of strength to go against the crowd. This has been very widely reported today. Not nearly enough of that reporting has mentioned the fact that Vallejo lost to McCartney Kessler in the one point slam in Australia earlier this year. Um, that feels like crucial information to me. Um, I mean, obviously like, absolute non, like what a moron. I mean, I wasn't going to cover this story except for the FFT coming in with the statement, which is the real piece de resistance here.

1:13:19Wait for it, folks. Uh, this evening, because this story was gathering ahead of steam, we had a statement from the French Tennis Federation, describing the comments from Vallejo as unacceptable and confirming that he would be fined for them. Brace yourselves here, folks. Hold on to your hats. Quote, the competence of an umpire is not determined by their gender, but by their professionalism and ability to officiate at the highest level. The outcome of a sporting event, whether positive or negative can never justify or excuse such remarks. Fine. Yeah, all good. They go on to say, the Roland Garros tournament strongly condemns all sexist remarks, regardless of who makes them, and offers its support to the match umpire, and more broadly to all the tournament's umpiring officials.

1:14:24Catherine Whitaker:The regardless of who makes them is bait. It really is. Yeah, they want me to take the bait, don't they? Oh, they do. Maybe I'll rise above on this occasion because there is going to be an Amelie Muresmo press conference at some point in this tournament, so maybe I'll keep it all in until then. It incidentally does remind me of some reporting by Ava Wallace earlier on in the tournament that we just haven't had opportunity to mention, given the volume of stories that have been unfolded, that the new WTA chair, Valerie Camillo, did meet, requested to meet with tournament director Amelie Ramirez-Moe before the French Open began in order to complain about, make her case, ask for explanations about the tournament.

1:15:23poor scheduling of women at this tournament, the poor treatment of women at this tournament. We don't know how that meeting went. You can probably imagine how that meeting went, but we don't have a transcript for it or anything or report on it. But the meeting did happen.

1:15:37Catherine Whitaker:Willing to bet the words holistic approach were used. Attractivity. Okay. Tomorrow's order of play, folks. Day seven of the French Open. we open on Chattere with a men's match, Flavio Gabali against Lerner Tien. I mean, it's so fascinating now with the two draws we have. You know, in the women's draw, we're used to almost every match feeling consequential, right, and really meaningful for the tournament. And we have, I think, five major champions still left in the women's draw and others who've been to semis and finals. like the women's draw remains stacked plus with that jeopardy that we're just so used to what's interesting about the men's draw is okay it's not stacked with the with the names but we do now have the jeopardy and a match like cabali tn third round feels like the winner of that could plot a path through to the final of this tournament you know like that's that's how consequential that that match is first up and that is pretty refreshing and exciting i know

1:16:51Matt Roberts:which of the two i feel is less likely to shit the bed

1:17:00David Law:yeah me too but caballi guy till i die uh second on chaturay tomorrow diane parry can't get off chaturay This is her third match in a row there. This time against Amanda Anisimova. Making her pitch for Muscataire of the Day. Yeah. And the fourth round.

1:17:21Catherine Whitaker:Still won't be picking her if she wins. Third on Chattare tomorrow, Coco Goff against Anastasia Potopova. I'm sure you're hearing here like, oh, that match sounds great. That match sounds great. These could all have been contenders for what the tournament calls the match of the day in the night session. What have they chosen for the night session? I hear you cry again. Hold on to your hats, folks. It is the big. Felix Auger Eliassime against Brandon Nakashima. I've had some laughs today, but this might have been the biggest.

1:17:57David Law:Yes. I don't know. I mean, if the WTA chief did meet with Amelie Maresma before the tournament, what on earth are they talking about? because they haven't had a women's match in the night session since 2023. How far down do you have to go? I wonder, you know, how many players have to get knocked out of the men's draw to get a woman in the night? I literally don't think, I mean, look, we don't need to get into this now. It is 20 plus two in the morning. If they were ever going to, it would have been Lois Brasson last year, right? In those circumstances with Prime asking for it, it didn't happen.

1:18:37I really don't think there's any circumstance in which they would put a women's match. They just don't. It's not something they even consider, I don't think.

1:18:46David Law:And no offence to Filius Ojeala's team. He's had a really good year. He's got himself to fourth seed. But, you know, there's some seriously big names in the women's draw there. And there's Osaka against Jovic. You know, there's bigger names in the men's draw. Loads of matches on. I'd be seeking a refund. Not everyone would be. but if that was I mean look I wouldn't buy a night session ticket right like I just think a session of of only one match is is silly um but in the universe in which I had and I discovered that it was all Jalea Seem Nakashima I'd be getting myself on StubHub um Longland tomorrow great matches Jovic against Osaka first up second on Sabalenka Kasikina third on and this is a bit of a stitch up.

1:19:35I mean, look, I love that this is on Longland. The atmosphere is going to be amazing. All other things aside, love the scheduling here of Moisa Kwame against Alejandro Tabilo. Kwame is a PSG fan. This is the clashing with the Champions League finals slot.

1:19:51Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. I mean, the Champions League finals starts here at six o 'clock. Is that right? He needs some quick... No, five o 'clock. Six o 'clock here. Six o 'clock here. Six o 'clock here. Five o 'clock in the UK. He needs some quick women's matches in order to not, you know, press and everything.

1:20:10David Law:And he needs to get himself going.

1:20:12Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Yeah. He played the longest match of the tournament last round. Right. What was the phrase that turned my body on? Took me a set to turn my body on. Let's see how that goes for Moisa Kwame tomorrow. After him is Francis Tiafoe and Jaime Farrier on Longland. Simone Mathieu opens with Maja Kowalinska against Maria Sakharie. Second on Matteo Berrettini against Francisco Comissagne. Berrettini having beaten Arta Rindeknes late last night. And reading a bit about that victory and seeing the post-match interview, it was only then that I clocked that this is Matteo Berrettini's first time playing this tournament since 2021.

1:21:03That is wild. I mean, look, we know he's a cursed player in terms of injury, but my God. Can he reach the final?

1:21:14David Law:I'd be surprised. I'd be surprised.

1:21:20David Law:But if he's ever going to. It's all to play for, folks. So Berrettini against Comissania is second on match here tomorrow, followed by Victorian Boko against Madison Keys. You've got Sarundolo, excuse me, I have to specify which Sarundolo. Francisco Sarundolo against Zachary Schweider is first on 14. You've got Kalinskaya Osorio there on now. The Collignon, really emotional scenes for Collignon after he beat Ben Shelton yesterday. And on court seven tomorrow, singles action with Diana Schneider against Oleksandr Olinikova. And I expect that to be very intense indeed, given Olinikova's press conference yesterday that we talked about on yesterday's pod.

1:22:06Incidentally, Kostiuk was asked about that today in her press conference, and she said, all power to Oleksandr Olinikova. I'm so impressed with what she's doing and how she's using it to propel her tennis and not impede her tennis. She said, I did that at the start of the war, and I cannot do it anymore. She said, I physically, I don't have the energy to do it anymore. I wish I did, but I don't, thank goodness, Olenikova is. And I think that just really shines a light on what a burden Olenikova is taking on by being as bold and brave as she is. So Olenikova-Schneider is on court seven tomorrow, as is Juan Manuel Sarangelo against Martin Lander-Luthe.

1:22:57and that is it is tomorrow going to be a calm day David no

1:23:04David Law:it's going to be another humdinger I sense you might be right that is the way the 2026 French Open is seeming to roll big day for Bashir tomorrow who as we know is on the Moisa Kwame hype train see our Instagram for evidence of that.

1:23:26Catherine Whitaker:Part of the Kwame army. Oh, fantastic. And Bashir is ready for tomorrow. He's been watching more tennis. His fashion-trained eye was very much into Naomi Osaka's glittering outfit. However, he was very confused by the fact that Hodder and Mickelson played five sets in the exact same outfit. Who is who? Bashir. Cosign. Preach. Your takes are bang on, quite frankly. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. No shout outs tonight because it is 2.25 in the morning, folks. But they'll be back tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow.

1:24:07We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. What a day. Thank you for listening.