French Open Day 9 - Sabalenka shines as Serena announces return

30:44I think we all know which is sort of least like a crime. No one was hurt in the making of Catherine's reaction to Arnaldi. the result means it's an all Matteo semi-final Arnaldi against Berrettini. Italy, how are they doing this? No Sinner no Mazzetti, no Darderi and they've got three men in the quarter-finals, guaranteed at least one in the semis It is crazy, isn't it? Like that match and Arnaldi winning it, there's two interesting phenomenons going on There's the Italy of it all, which, you know, we've talked about before, but it is remarkable how they've got so many men at the moment. But also this thing of great matches.

31:35And what I find so interesting, David, you brought up Francis Tiafoe's quote, is that this tournament really got mad in terms of these great matches when Cina went out. There weren't that many total epics in the first round on the men's side. But it just seems that that sense of opportunity that is hanging over this tournament has led to matches like this catching. And I don't know, players feeling it, players maybe fighting more in matches because they know they've got a chance if they can get through this one. The next one's easier. The draw generally is opened up. I don't know. You can't really quantify that.

32:17It's just the sort of sense that I have that Sinner going out, Alcruz not being here, Ben Djokovic going out, just busted the whole thing open and just changed the feel that everyone has. And yeah, Tiafoe was really open about it, talking about how he came onto court the other day and was so nervous and so tight. And yeah, I think there's something in that. I think there's something in that about why we've had so many of these matches from that Sinner defeat onwards. It's fascinating how the different players are dealing with it when asked about it, right? There's the Tiafoe that's totally open about, yeah, of course, like we all know what's happening here.

33:00Of course, my eyes are lighting up. There's Chippy Zverev that's like, I think I answered that question. And then there's the total denial, right? One match at a time. I'm not thinking about that. I'm just focusing on my game. I mean they're all thinking about it and aware of it right like yes of course they're doing their absolute best some of them I think are doing their absolute best to just then reverse and try to compartmentalize into this match and others I think are using as ambition and fuel to get more out of themselves and it's different for different people as well depending on what stage of their careers they're at right I was really thinking about that watching Rude Fonseca last night you know like this is a big opportunity for Fonseca but he's also what seven or eight years younger than Rude for Rude it must have felt even bigger because you know okay he's not he's not old Rude but he's got far fewer French Opens ahead of him than Fonseca and like depending on what stage your career you're at I think you can have a different experience of this tournament as well and he said that afterwards didn't he he was asked is this hurt more because of what the draw looked like and he said yes end of answer um and it's also interesting how how sort of it tells you something about the personality of players like how sort of vulnerable they're prepared to be about the nerves they're experiencing this is my i'm trying to find an elegant way to bring us on to flavio caballi telling caroline garcia and the philip chatria crowd and everybody watching on tv twice in the same answer that he is shitting on his pants.

34:50I saw it live and it still makes me laugh now. 6-2, 6-3, 6-7, 7-6 for him against American Zachary Schweider. I mean, yeah, Flavio's told us that he was so, so in control of this match. I mean, look, Schweider is a lovely player, very neat player. That's how you described him, Matt, but has no arsenal that can really challenge Caballi unless Caballi is coughing up a lot of errors. And for two and a half sets, Caballi was as Caballi has been. The guy that hasn't dropped a set all tournament, the forehand was taking a breath away, you know, Fonseca-like. And then what happened, Matt? Well, yeah, that start of the match made me think of our Tennis Relive that we did on Pietrangeli when John Barrett was quoted as saying that Pietrangeli made the ball talk when he played.

35:49And I was thinking, that's what Caballi was doing. I was popping off his strings and he was punctuating forehands with big grunts. He was everywhere. He was sublime and built that two sets to love lead. I think in the third, my sense was that he just dropped his intensity a bit. He'd been so on it for two sets. That's the Flavio I know. He just sort of went a bit missing. That's the ride I've signed up for. He just went a bit missing and the set just sort of drifted away from him. Then he put it so right in the fourth. He was back on it and he built this massive lead. five one up served for it twice and then lost five games in a row and was down in the score you know and it was like oh my god he's gone and he was looking quite stressed he was talking to his box a lot more Schweider was suddenly dictating some of the points despite not really having the power in the start of the match to trouble him and it was just all tail spinning and David was remaining quite calm for Caballi like David was like he's going to be all right he's going to win it in four i was i was less confident than that but david was right because he was all right and he did just about get it together in four but it was a it was a bit of a warning sign that yeah you can be feeling really good about farrio cabali and suddenly it can all go off the rails a little bit i went into elevator voice note mode Absolute comedic genius from Caroline Garcia In the post-match interview afterwards First question was, how did you stay confident?

37:30It was like she hadn't watched the last two sets Absolutely First question was, how did you stay so confident in the match? And Flavio said, all I know is that I shit on my pants He later apologised So then Caroline Garcia absolutely ignored the fact that he'd said that and followed up with a question about something quite technical and entirely unrelated to which Flavio replied with an apology to his team for shitting on my pants. It was incredible. He now plays Felix Auger Aliasim. He was the comfortable winner. today. 6-3, 7-5, 6-1 for Felix. Have we been sleeping on him a bit, David? Like, is he the man that we should be looking at as most likely to come through this top half?

38:32Yeah, I think he probably is. I don't think his top level has been as high as Caballi's. And until Caballi dropped that third set, I'd have been making Caballi the favourite to reach the final. And I think he's still well might because like I said, I think his top level is electrifying. And I think he's getting close to being ready now, like mentally. I know he had his wobble today. I wouldn't want to see, for his sake, I wouldn't want to see that again because you can't keep getting away with it, not as the levels get higher. I don't think that's going to happen to Felix Argialliassime. That's not who he is.

39:12He is, I'm not saying he doesn't feel nerves, but he's very deliberate in the way he goes about it. And I don't think he derails very easily unless he has the cramp that he's been suffering earlier this year. But he's been functional for most of the tournament. I think today he said afterwards that it was his best match of the tournament and he was comfortable. He won in straight sets against a good player in Alejandro Tabillo. I went to the press conference for Felix afterwards and actually he was asked about the absence of Sinner, who he's run into at Grand Slams, like at the US Open. He's run into Alkraz and Djokovic and Nadal in the past here.

39:55You know, he's had to deal with some people. He has beaten Zverev. And he said, I'm used to it now. When it first, when Sinner first lost, you couldn't help but go into the match being aware of it. But it's very Felix, isn't it? to just get used to it. I asked him if you could rank now clay amongst kind of the five conditions of tennis, indoors, hard, no, four, indoors, hard, clay, grass. You know, what would be your, where would clay come? And he didn't rank them. He refused to play my game. Again, very Felix. Yes, but he made it pretty clear that Clay probably, Clay and Grass are the worst too, but he also gave a really sensible answer as to why that might be.

40:53It's not because his game isn't suited to it. He says, I just don't play as much on it anymore. He said, when I was 18, my coach sent me out to South America to play Rio and to play play court events. And I played Lyon and I won a couple of these. You know, and he just said that that's why I was better at it then. But then when I joined the up-restlands of the tour, I'm playing on hard court all the time. So I'm better on those. He says, yes, indoor suits me because there are no elements to move the ball in the air and that sort of thing. So that's fine. But generally speaking, it's just logical, isn't it?

41:32I mean, nobody else has ever said that to me before. The reason I'm better on a surf is because I play more on it. And if I played more on clay, I'd be better at that. That's basically what he said. And the same with grass. Grass is too short a season, so I'm not as good at that. Yeah, from a grass perspective, all we ever find out is which players are naturally good on grass, right? The season is so short that even the players that invest in it the most, it's three events really, isn't it? I know sometimes people play three, back-to-back three weeks and then Wimbledon, pretty rare. Even doing two, you know, generally it's one plus Wimbledon, isn't it?

42:12Yannick Sinner, Novak Djokovic, it's none plus Wimbledon. So you don't ever really get to find out what would happen, who would be good if there was as much grass court tennis as there is hard court tennis. Whereas you obviously do find that out with hard courts and to some extent clay, but it's still not the same as hard, is it? Whereas Agassi used to say, the more I play on grass, the worse I get. Oh, okay. Well, that blows my little monologue there out the water. But the thing is, that's because of the type of player and character he is, I think. He is a natural player on a surface. And in his early years on grass, he used to warm up on a hard court for it because then he'd get his eye in.

42:57But Felix is not Andre Agassi. He's not that type of character or that type of player. He needs the reps. So Felix Caballi to face the winner of Berrettini-Arnaldi. I predict a Matteo in the semifinals. How many Italians in the semifinals are we going to get? That is asking you for a Caballi-Felix prediction, is what that is. Do you know, even though I think Felix Ogierle-Assim is the most qualified to reach the position. I think it's going to be two Italians. I do think Caballi's going to take him out. I do as well. I assume you think so as well. You haven't shaken on Caballi. A little bit. He hadn't shat on his pants when I made that prediction.

43:55But I suppose that was very much, it was very possible. I should have accounted for that. Yeah, I guess I just trust the Caballi acceleration that he's got. I think he's got that more than Felix. His top level is so high, Caballi, like serious tennis. But then he does shit on his pants sometimes. And his level then drops alarmingly. Yeah. Two good semis there, I think. Lots of intrigue. I mean, there is intrigue wherever you look. That's what's been so wonderful about this tournament is we've had so many incredible matches. I mean, the sheer number of final set matches we've had in this event has been incredible.

44:42And then just because of all these names, everybody's got a story and everybody's got an opportunity. It's just, oh, I love it. And it's interesting for Berrettini winning today in straight sets. He was struggling physically in this match by the end. I think he probably could have kept playing at that kind of intensity for a while. But now he gets... Okay, so he beat one-man well-sundelo today who just played the longest match of the tournament. Now he gets Arnaldi, who's just finished at one o 'clock in the morning and played five hours, 20 minutes in one of the most gruelling matches of the tournament.

45:19Like, Verrettini might be the favourite over Arnaldi. because of the match that Arnaudis just has. Like the recovery from that is going to be tough. And Berrettini has at least got like his serve and his forehand that he can simplify. More time as well. I mean, Arnaudis finished his match. Right. Gone one in the morning. Totally. So I think that was big for Berrettini to squeeze through that third set today because he probably should have lost it. You know, like Sarundolo had his chances there. There was three set points in that third set tie break. A couple of them were very funny. It looked quite a lot like club tennis.

46:01It did. It was slow motion for a while. It was slow motion. That was it. Berrettini's return position was so extreme because he knew that Sarundolo couldn't kick it out to his forehand and catch him. So he was standing all the way over on his backhand side, on the deuce side, to make sure he got his forehand into play. And then this one rally developed on the set point where Berrettini was up at the net, left the whole cross-court available for Sir Underlay to pass it. And Sir Underlay tried two passes up the line. It was so Champions Tour. It was. I mean, basically, for a short period of time, you had two players at the same time shitting on their pants.

46:41Neither of them were able to play. And then Berrettini, when he got back from 6-3 to 6-5 down in that tie break, then you could see in his eyes, I was on the court at the time, And you could just see him decide, OK, I've had enough of this. He's going to get the hammer forehand for the rest of this tie break. And if it goes in, it goes in. Oh, what a fun day. Jib will have an explicit tag on this podcast, please. That's it for part two. We'll see you for tomorrow's order of play and some big, big news in part three. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we have made the executive decision to suspend Muscatare of the Day for one day only, partly because we've got a big story to cover, a big Serena Williams-shaped story to cover here in part three, and partly because Diane Parry lost today and I didn't have the time to trawl through the doubles results to find a Muscatare.

47:37So for one day only, Muscatare of the Day is gone. It'll be back tomorrow. I'm sure you'll be clamouring for it by then. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. We do have an order of play for tomorrow. All the singles action coming from Chatrier now. We have Mira Andreva against Sarana Kastea to open things up. Second on, Alina Svitolina against Marta Kostchuk, the Ukrainian battle. Third on, in the day session, Rafael Hodar against Alexander Zverev. And finally, at night, not before 8.15, although probably starting around 8.33 with Faf, Jakub Menchik against Joao Fonseca. Do we anticipate any upsets tomorrow, folks?

48:22So an upset would be Kosteja over Andrejva. Yeah, Kostiuk over Svitolina, Khodar over Zverev. And I guess you'd call Menchik an upset, but debatable. Yeah, I think that does feel very close on paper. I think Kostya over Svitolina is the one I'd be looking at I think Kostya could trouble Andreva as well I haven't actually made my prediction for the newsletter tomorrow yet but I very much intend to after this has finished recording so I need to hold fire a little bit because some of these are quite close I think Yes I agree I feel like Kostya and Andreva is a lot at 11am Do you know what I mean?

49:10Like there's gonna be a lot going on in that match, which I'm really looking forward to. And then Kostiuk-Svitolina is so tight. I would lean Svitolina, but I agree with David. Like Kostiuk could well win that. I think Zverev will beat Hodar and I think Fonseca will beat Mensik.

49:37But I think the two women's matches could definitely go the way that you're describing as upsets. What even is an upset at the 2026 French Open, quite frankly? It's great, isn't it? It's great fun. It's a great order of play. It is. It's a great order of play. Every match there's real intrigue in all of them. What are you trying to say about today's order of play, Matt? People heard part one too and how into it we were. Let's just say that Matt picked a good day for his hit the wall day today. Yes, it happened. and I wasn't mad that it fell today, especially because the best part of the day was Sauerland-Cursarco, which was the end of the day.

50:15And you were fit and firing by then. Absolutely. Right, on to the big story of the day outside of Paris, a seismic story, quite frankly, even though it's been rumoured for a long time, I think a lot of people didn't quite believe it until they saw that it was confirmed. And it was confirmed today. The worst kept secret in sport, that 44-year-old, 23-time major champion Serena Williams is making a comeback at this stage in doubles at the Queen's Club in a week's time where she'll be playing doubles with Victoria Mboko. That's been confirmed by Queen's Tournament Director Laura Robson on TNT. But we do understand that doubles is just the start of her plans with more grass court tournaments and US hard court tournaments to come over the summer with the intention being to request singles wild cards in due course who would like to go first with their thoughts and feelings about this news well i'm excited i gotta be i gotta be honest i'm very excited that serena williams is coming back because she's if she's not the greatest tennis player of all time she's absolutely right up there and this is to me the stuff of my imagination my what-ifs because I'm always thinking about what if somebody came back and uh one of the greats and and played against the current greats and I realize she's she's only been out of the sport for four years it's not that long um but Serena Williams she's got so much presence and charisma and and she's got so much success behind her and I'm just fascinated like I am so curious to see what her game looks like because it does sound to me like she's taken this seriously you know she's entered this anti-doping protocol a long time ago in order to be able to play this year.

52:23And from what it seems like, she spent a lot of time on the court. And I'm just really, I couldn't be more fascinated to see what that looks like when she's out there. Does it matter to you how competitive she is in singles? Do the results matter to you? I mean... Like, how much would it bother you if she does this and she's not competitive in singles, which I think is a scenario. Yeah, I think I'd be, in the end, I would be, I would probably find that quite hard watch if she was really terrible. Like if she was, I remember when Thomas Mustard tried a comeback and he just couldn't win any matches at all.

53:06I don't think he won one. And he got himself super fit, granite fit. He got himself ripped the way he used to be. Bjorn Borg did the same and they just couldn't handle the game as it had moved on I think that the difference to me is that Thomas must have never had a game of power it was always built on being able to grind people down and the game younger people were able to grind him down and out hit him Bjorn Borg was using a wooden racket 10 years after nobody else was using them Serena I can only speculate because we haven't seen it yet but she was the most powerful player I'd ever seen she had the best serve she had the best serve women's tennis has ever seen and one of the best in either tours men or women ever I don't think you lose that ability unless your shoulder's gone you don't lose the best serve in the world so she's already she's gonna have power I don't think it's like a boxer who they might not be able to move like they used to but they retain their punching power they can still knock people out i'm just fascinated so i don't think it's going to be i don't think she i don't think she puts herself through that i don't think she'd bother coming back if she was really really injured for instance and couldn't play she wouldn't want to humiliate herself like and i think there would be a danger if she was just totally uncompetitive that she could feel a bit embarrassed or feel not like she wants to feel on the tennis court I don't think Serena Williams would do that and take that risk because, you know, she's proud.

54:42She wants to be good. And I think she will be good. I don't know how good. Matt? Yeah, look, I will be watching. And I preface everything I'm about to say with that. Like, I know that when the time comes, I will be tuning into these matches. And, you know, in that sense, I think, I think it's, you know, Sabalenka used in her press conference, good for the sport. I think in that sense that it will get eyes on, on tennis. And I, yeah, I'll be watching. I'm not excited. And I would say I'm less curious than David. Like, I'm curious about what peak Serena would look like in this era and bringing that back.

55:33But I don't know. I guess I'm just not as into the idea of what Serena now in her mid 40s, having not played for so long, is going to look like. Because I think I know roughly what it's going to look like, you know. and yes she might win some matches and that will be amazing and it will be inspiring for some and all of that kind of thing and it will be great moments no doubt but i really don't think she's going to be competing at the latter end of the biggest tournaments um because well i just don't she will be i think but the speed of of of the sport is such that i think it'd be very very hard for even someone as great as serena williams to to deny you know the time that has passed there um so so i'm sort of curious about how it will develop i suppose and whether part of this is wanting to sort of find a way to help venus maybe retire as well and whether they might play a lot the doubles together going forward that i think i would like to see i'd be i'd be quite into that be excited for that i think especially if they maybe target la olympics something like that that appeals to me more i think um so yeah those are those are kind of the the thoughts and feelings on my mind um but it's serena so she transcends the sport in a way and there will be this buzz I'm sort of drawn to Serena, whatever she does, right?

57:19So you will be drawn to her in this phase of her career on court as well. She will be the big story. And that, I suppose, is interesting as well. Yeah, look, there's a part of me that's excited as well. Certainly, I share your feeling about more so doubles than singles and certainly the Venus element of it. that's interesting. And look, I love a story. I love drama. I will be seated. And, you know, I will love gathering with you two. When it happens and talking about it, that'll be really cool. But, goodness, my feelings on this are so complicated and hard to process, really. They're kind of all over the place.

58:09I read the excellent comment piece by Matt Futterman and Charlie Eccleshire in The Athletic today, their opinion piece on it. I know you two did as well. And Matt Futterman made the point brilliantly in that, that Venus and Serena not only represented, were provided representation of black athletes on the biggest stage of a predominantly white sport, but they also did it in a totally non-conformist way. Their braids, their fashion statements, the stand they took on not playing Indian Wells for all those years, one of the most universally beloved tournaments in tennis. And if Serena is going to be able to add further to that representation and help create more Coco Gough's and Francis Tiafos in the future and make more people from non-traditional tennis backgrounds feel like this sport is open to them, then that is obviously a brilliant thing.

59:09And the thing is just her being there will likely be enough to do that. Personally, I have very serious doubts about whether she can be competitive in singles. But she will get spotlight and attention and cut through regardless of her results and there will be a positive impact from that, no doubt. I would say, though, that Suna represents a lot of important things to different people, and that's a measure of her greatness just as much as her Grand Slam haul is. I can tell you what she represents to me, most importantly. I grew up and fell in love with the sport right plum in the Serena era, which obviously was like 20 years long, but the most important thing Serena has represented to me is body positivity, and she's won the hardest things in the hardest sport at all different sizes.

1:00:05I so vividly remember her 2007 Australian Open victory and how openly fat-shamed she was at the start of that tournament and how she then proceeded to steamroller her way through the draw. She showed with her achievements and her words that skinnier isn't necessarily healthier or better, that health and fitness and strength and beauty can look different on different people. And I can't tell you how powerful and radical a message that feels for women and girls. And when I saw her promoting the GLP-1 drug brand, which her husband sits on the board of during the Super Bowl ad breaks this year, my heart broke a little bit, honestly.

1:00:53And I'm not trashing GLP-1 meds. For a lot of people, when properly prescribed and monitored, they improve health, fitness, quality of life. That's a great thing. I absolutely don't want to add to the stigma around that at all. But the marketing of them preys on women's insecurities in what I think is a very sinister way. And to see Serena Williams be a part of that, I find very unsettling and quite sad, to be honest. And it does seem that, could be wrong about this, but it does seem that she's positioning the weight loss medication as a big part of her story in coming back to whatever success she might have.

1:01:38And I'm bracing for that to feel quite hard to take, honestly. And part of that probably is that I'm British and not American. In the UK, celebrity promotion of medication of any kind is illegal. So, like, my starting point, I guess, is that promoting a medication for financial gain feels unethical. And I realise that's normalised in the US in a completely different way. So, like, I'm very conscious of that. But I don't know, to try and sum up the very complex feelings that I'm having, like, I feel excited for the buzz of the story. and there are many positives that I'm going to try and hang on to.

1:02:27But for me personally, the prevailing feeling is one of deep unease, honestly. I don't want to feel that way about it. I feel like I'm a downer about everything, but that's how I feel. Well, that's how you feel and it's to be respected. um yeah i i i can't i can't deny that that i have some unease not to the degree that you've described there because i hadn't i haven't thought about it as deeply as that over the years it doesn't affect me in quite the same way of course um but but it does i do have some unease about about it i've listened to what the way she's talked about it and she seems happy about about it and and as though it's it's given us something extra in in life and and in terms of how she feels about herself and um and her confidence and i don't i don't want to dismiss that but i also you know it's it's just a very sensitive subject um and i do understand where you're coming from.

1:03:42Matt, are you looking forward to being on a flight to Chicago during Serena Williams' much anticipated comeback? Can't wait. Yeah, that's going to be weird, isn't it? Yeah, got a friend's wedding in Chicago after the French Open, which is going to be great when I'm there.

1:04:04Praying for that upgrade for you. Yeah. Let's say hello to Bashir for the night. With all the chaos of the draw so far, Vicky says, Bashir is very much hoping his favourites reach the latter stages or he might just be hungry. It's hard to tell. His blue, blue eyes are watering looking up at me. Truly the handsomest boy, the most photogenic cat I have ever seen. He's just absolutely stunning. Thank you, Bashir, for the content that just keeps on coming. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodhi. Hello, Maisie. Hello, Roger. Hello, Totop folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:04:52We have Rebecca from California. Hello, Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca. Who says, my nine-year-old lab, Sammy, loves watching Grand Slams with me. Aw. That's a nice image, isn't it? Yeah. Rebecca like Rebecca Marino, the Canadian tennis player. Very good, David. I think she made a comeback, didn't she? Yes, she did, yeah. That's very apt. Yeah, that's right. Hello, Rebecca, and hello, Sammy. Yeah. We also have Noonie Tao from Israel. Hello, Noonie. Hi, Noonie. Noonie says, I've been listening to the Tennis Podcast almost since day one. What a trooper. That's going back a bit. And Noonie, like Matt Futterman, is a big fan of our Q &A episodes.

1:05:40Noonie does not describe them as kind of random. Thanks, Noonie. But says, I learn a lot from them. To be honest, so do I. My mum's into those shows as well. Yeah, my dad loves them. It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, the feedback we get from different parts of the content, in a way, that some things appeal to more than others. I mean, we get a lot of feedback about Tennis Relived, I feel. But I like it when somebody picks out something else and is into them. Thanks, Noonie. And finally, we have Eliza Neset. Oh, hello, Eliza. Hi, Eliza. From Atlanta, Georgia. and Eliza says, I used to work reception at a tennis centre so I was watching six plus hours of tennis a day and fell in love.

1:06:32Wow. That's a lovely thought. And Eliza got to go to the US Open last year and spent all day dragging her exhausted friends to watch every match possible for three days. Eliza. That's how to live, Eliza. Yeah, good stuff. Tennis Elizas? I think we might be stumped. Yeah, I think so. Any Lysas? Any Lysas? How wide do I need to cast this net, folks? Raymond. Very good. Please, please accept our one o 'clock in the morning efforts, Eliza. I was just about to say Liesl Huber, but that doesn't quite work, does it? Well, neither does Lisa Raymond, so... Two crap efforts together makes one mediocre. effort.

1:07:22Eliza Noonie and Rebecca, thank you ever so much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow.