Grass! Donna Vekic, Emma Raducanu and Ben Shelton enter the chat

0:11Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast, our first pod of the grass court season. The tennis never stops, folks. We're here to cover titles for Donna Vekic, Ben Shelton, Robin Montgomery and Camille Mejershack, plus a look ahead to the coming week's events and a deep dive on the tennis. some interesting announcements from Wimbledon this week including a hotly anticipated one on prize money. I say we are here. That we is myself and David. David how are you doing? I'm okay. In fact I'm very okay and it was interesting to arrive back in the UK from Paris and think you know what I'm all tennised out now.

0:53I've had enough for a bit. I'm gonna just you know have a good rest and be a normal person without tennis in my life for a minute oh oh this looks like a good grass court match oh um and on it went and i was hooked within about three hours and i'd got the ipad on in the kitchen for the remainder of the week and when it was raining i was annoyed because there was no tennis on so what can i say i'm on the right podcast we all had queens on within like two hours of getting home and including Matt who had a lot of washing and unpacking and repacking to do ahead of his trip to Chicago which is where he is right now and he actually is in actual Chicago right now I think and not in Bloomington, Illinois which is where he spent the majority of the trip so far.

1:46He's running around Chicago, he's back tomorrow I think and he will be on our next pod on Thursday. So you don't have to miss Matt for long, folks. And if you do want to check in on him and see how he looks in a wedding suit, then Instagram is the place to go for that, folks. It won't disappoint. We are going to start talking now about the tennis that has happened this week on the green, green grass starting at Queen's and the WTA 500 there. Obviously, they introduced the WTA event at Queen's back-to-back with the men's last year. The inaugural champion was Tatiana Maria, who controversially was not awarded a wildcard to defend her title this year.

2:32She did qualify. She won through a round. She put in a valiant effort against Elena Rabakina and had a few things to say about not being given that wildcard. The title was won by former Wimbledon semi-finalist Donna Vekic, a lucky loser from qualifying. She lost, did Vekic, to Anna Blinkova in the final round of qualifying. She gets in as a lucky loser after Marta Kostiuk's withdrawal. She finds out the day of her first match that she has got the place as a lucky loser. She hotfoots it across London. She gets to Queen's. She starts her tournament. She finds herself in the final, which she wins 6-love, 7-6 over Britain's Emma Raducanu, who also had a sensational week.

3:19And David, if I was writing a film script about this week at Queen's and the two eventual finalists and champions, I think that the hook of it would be two players returning to past coaches and trying to recapture something of what they had with those past coaches. I felt like the parallels between them on that I found really fascinating because, of course, we've known for a while that Radhikhanu is back working with Andrew Richardson again, who she worked with when she triumphed at the US Open in 2021. on Donna Vekic this week had David Felgate courtside who was her coach when she first burst through onto the tennis scene at the age of 16 which was quite a long time ago now.

4:15Yeah if you think she's 29 now and if you go deep back into the archives of the tennis podcast in I think 2013, March of 2013, when Vekic was 16, there were back-to-back episodes where I interviewed Donna in Miami, who was new on the circuit, and then her coach at the time, David Felgate, who, in Donna's words, in the aftermath of today's win, raised her as a tennis player from the age of 12, and for many years after that too. And David, obviously, a vastly experienced coach who's worked with tim henman had a similar kind of raising of him you know and all into the the the the pro ranks and he's worked with other people like savia malice and dan evans and many others over the course of time but i think he always hoped that she would have all of her best results with him there and and obviously the way things tend to go that didn't happen you know they they They broke and now they're back together.

5:19And I don't think it's an accident that players play their best stuff when they're with somebody that they feel comfortable with and who obviously has to have great coaching ability and has to understand the game and they need to be on the same wavelength. But you could see in Vekic and Raducanu just how comfortable they are with the people that were there from the past. And I mean, I think there's definitely an argument to suggest that Raducanu should never have split from Richardson. Who knows how that would have gone, but just in terms of the vibe between them, it just seems to work. And I think Richardson's absolutely in it for the right reasons, always has been.

5:59And so I'm a big fan of that collaboration. And yeah, I think that they both look, and it's health permitting. Raducanu took a nasty fall a couple of rounds ago and I worried for her on that and let's hope that that is okay. She looks okay to me. I thought she just got outplayed for a setting a bit today. But these are two players that have the games to really make something happen at Wimbledon. They fit on grass perfectly. And I think they're both a great story. I mean, you know, I'm biased, I'm British and I've got a Croatian family and my wife's Croatian. And so I loved sitting in front of the TV, seeing a British player and a Croatian player doing battle in the final of Queens and being up in lights, being celebrated like that.

6:50And I think that they could both make things happen the next few weeks. I'm going to need you to be more specific, David, about make things happen. Because, look, I watched that first set of the final. I mean, I watched all of the final, but the first set of the final. And look, Raducanu was, she was clearly nervous and nerves can make your feet stuck in the mud, can't they? And she was also, she had played two matches the day before. They were blighted by the weather earlier in the week. And Raducanu had to play both her quarterfinal and her semifinal match on Saturday. And as you said, she had sustained that injury in the first of those two matches.

7:32It's incredible, really, that she came back and put in the performance that she did in the second match against Evie Jovic, who on paper I would have had as a pretty strong favourite for that match going in. Actually, I thought that was a stunning, stunning win from Raducanu. And look, she was. She wasn't a huge opposition in that first set to Donna Vekic. I do realise that. But that tennis from Vekic, I was like, oh, she's going to win Mumbledon. like this this tennis is absolutely unplayable obviously I know it doesn't work like that David seven matches you know keeping it going anybody can play well for a set but if if she could find that level at Wimbledon that top level on grass really is close to unplayable it was it was breathtaking at points during that final today I thought yeah I see I don't I don't think Raducanu was playing terribly in that first set she was playing fine you know it was not as good as as yesterday and it wasn't as good as the second set but there was there was nothing wrong with it you know it was sort of against most players you'd be on serve probably or or you know maybe maybe four three in a breakdown or something like that um and Vekic is not a player I think of as a mover on on the court she she she gets about it fine but she's she's not fleet-footed the way Raducanu is she just got there in time and then once she was there she was destructive and it was forehands and backhands and then she also has one of the most difficult to read drop shots on the circuit you know she can go from all-out power to feather-like touch in an instant and you don't see it coming i am always surprised by that drop shot it's always on the backhand she hits it i'm like oh yeah and then i'm like well of course we all know she has that drop shot and yet i'm surprised every time she never hits it on the forehand it always seems to be a back and struck shot but it works a treat for her but it all comes off the serve and you know as usual in this situation i would tip my hat to pam shriver because she was in was watching this match she was she was tipping us off she was saying look the serve is working and therefore it frees up the rest of the game and she said she's in the zone right now you can see it and look she won the first seven games of the final and i actually think radicana did incredibly well to establish a foothold and get into a position to win that second set i mean look vekic's level did drop because the first i mean i don't like you said i don't think you can sustain that level i mean She was just hammering good ground strokes from Raducanu.

10:26She was hammering for winners. Like they were nothing. And yeah, she dropped her level a bit in the second set. Raducanu really lifted hers, led 5-2 with a double break and didn't win the set. I think we've got to note that. Because yes, Vekic dug in and hit the zone again. but I still don't think you should be losing the set when you're 5-2 double breakup. And she has had issues with serving things out in the past, Raducanu, and therefore it can become a self-fulfilling thing. I think she knows she's had issues serving things out in the past. She would far rather break to win a set or a match, I think, than have to serve it out.

11:13But yeah, it's almost like the more it's a thing, the more it becomes a thing and it definitely is a thing now yeah i i don't think she has one of the strongest serves around but it should be okay certainly on grass a bit like look she served out the u.s open final but that is a long time ago she needs to build some she needs to build momentum really and it's um i think she's done that this week i think i think if she could get a half decent draw at Wimbledon, she could get momentum. She's a real momentum player. So to answer your question about what could they do at Wimbledon, there are a lot of examples of players that I've seen look amazing at Queen's.

11:58And if they're not one of the top players, they don't necessarily carry it into Wimbledon. Tatiana Maria, I think, lost in the first round at Wimbledon. Feliciana Lopez lost in the first round at Wimbledon after winning Queen's. I mean, he's a lot older. But that sort of thing does happen. Even Cilic did once, didn't he? Yes, that's right. He lost to Guido Pella. Do you remember that? I mean, he felt almost like the joint favourite for the title when he lost that match. And he was two sets up in that match. I think he felt the pressure of suddenly realising, jeez, I'm one of the favourites. And he couldn't really handle it.

12:37These two, I don't think, will go in thinking that. it's really do they stay fully fit and do they get some rhythm because they've also got to kind of get a foothold in the draw before they run into somebody really high ranked you know and they could do because their own rankings they could end up playing a sabalenka or we're back in a fairly early and i don't i i think you've got to think i mean i know we're back in a loss to katie Bolter at this tournament but I don't read her future into that match she is gonna be better at Wimbledon she'll have peaked by then and I think that I definitely feel like Raducanu and Vekic have got the ability to have deep second week runs like and draw dependent but I could see both of them capable of reaching the semi-final I could see both of them going all the way if it if they played this level and it all fell their way and they didn't.

13:34But the likelihood is they're going to run into Jessica Pegula or Coco Goff. I mean, I know Goff's not that comfortable on grass or Sabalenka. Or, you know, there's so many great players in women's tennis that the chances of you not running into somebody who makes life really tough for you are a lot slimmer than they are at Queen's, say. And they've got some tricky decisions to make now. it's quite an awkward week to have a great run, isn't it? If you are somebody that's thinking in terms of wanting to peak at Wimbledon, having this great run two weeks before Wimbledon is actually not hugely convenient.

14:14Next week is the best week to reach a final. Easy. You've got maximum number of matches you could possibly have got in. A week isn't long enough to kind of lose your momentum. You can keep that up. You can also really settle into it to the Grand Slam and the practice courts at Orangi and all of that. This week, two weeks is too long to keep up momentum. But going on and immediately playing next week, you know, Emma Raducanu is in the draw in Nottingham. And Donna Vekic is in the draw in, I can't remember actually which of the two it is, but she's in the draw somewhere. And they're both going to have to make very difficult decisions, I think, about whether they press on and play those two tournaments.

15:06Because I don't think you can just not play now or certainly wouldn't be wise to just not play now before Wimbledon. Especially if you're in some form, you don't want to sit on the sidelines and lose that. But I don't know. I think... Yeah. I mean, I find it tricky because I would, I just, I would never be a play the week before a slam person. Never. Like I'm a get to the, get to the airport really early, settle in, have some food and a drink, like contemplate the flight ahead. And, you know, I just, I can't, I find it quite hard to get into the headspace of somebody that would want to, like, arrive at a Grand Slam the day before it starts and not feel, like, settled into it.

16:04But I obviously do, like, objectively recognise that some people are like that and it suits them. Those people are Casper Rude. And Martina Navratilova back in the day. Yes, look, I know. See, I wonder whether if you'd have been sort of following her progress when that was the norm. She would play Eastbourne, win that, play Wimbledon, win that. And that was the most normal-seeming thing in the world. It's only more recent years that that started to feel not the best idea. I mean, I definitely think the last 20 years or so, People have tended to want to do this arrive for the week before thing.

16:48And maybe for Edekanu, David, Spawn is the play because it's a good event, very valid grass court preparation. I think she'd have a good chance of going deep there. And it's still a British tennis event where there would be attention on her. But most of the attention is on Wimbledon at that point. and she gets to avoid all of that. If she went deep at Eastbourne, she'd still have to do pre-tournament press at Wimbledon, but it might not be on the big pre-tournament press day. She might be one of those stragglers that comes in even once the tournament has already started. She could just stay away from it all a bit, maybe.

17:32There's something so in it about Eastbourne. Like it is a part of the grass court season and there are so few events in the grass court season that every one of them is almost kind of elevated in status on it, on what it would be within another part of the tennis swing. but it's also so like quaint and out of the way and like not feeling like a big important tennis tournament. Like it feels like a village fair, doesn't it? Yeah. The thought that year that Serena Williams played, like just conceptually Serena Williams at Eastbourne, it's like when Beyonce played the Stadium of Light. where did she stay where did she go out to dinner it's it's really popular i mean it always gets full crowds and they and it feels like it's got bigger but it still maintains that that feeling i agree with you it's lovely really uh eastbourne but but i do think listen i i don't feel qualified enough to judge about next week in a really confident manner.

18:49But I did feel worried about Radakana, the way she felt, and the way she's had that strapped up. I wouldn't be bursting to go up to Nottingham straight away and play that event. Personally, if I were her, I would be more inclined to play Eastbourne, have a week now, and actually have a week now and make a call. Make a call on it. sort of see how you feel. The problem, and this is where Raducanu's situation differs to Vekic, is Wimbledon seeding, right? Like next week is the week that can impact Wimbledon seeding. She's currently 31 in the live ranking. So if seedings were done tomorrow, she'd get in.

19:30And probably, you know, high 20s might get you in because there will be dropouts, but that could change a lot in the space of a week. she could very easily just miss out on a seeded position. And that could be the difference between a semi-final and a first round loss. Like that is a big deal for somebody like Emma Adekane. But it's also very difficult to plan around, I think, and maybe not necessarily healthy to plan around. Vekic has, despite the 500 points today, no chance of being seeded at Wimbledon, which is a nightmare for everybody else, David. Can you imagine, you know, Sabalenka drawing Don of Ekich in round one?

20:16I mean, it's very fun. And if Matt were here, he'd be salivating at the thought of the velvet pouch and the draw. But yeah, I mean, she's, regardless of what happens in the next two weeks, the definition of a dangerous floater, right? Yeah, and yet I think I'd feel more concerned for her than them because if she's not being seeded, the chances are she's going to play really good players. And some of them, like I wouldn't fancy her chances against the Sabalenka or Rebecca and her personally as well as she's playing. I just feel like they do what she does and even a bit better. So, but look, I do love the fact that she's found form because I thought that we'd seen the best of her really after the Olympic final run, after the Wimbledon semi-final run, after she parted ways with Pam, it didn't go very well with Sasha Byen.

21:15But David Felgate is a really smart move. You can see it's had a similar effect to what I feel like Pam had in that way of just, OK, right, the real Donna Vekic is here now. um so i know and i'm and i'm really chuffed to see radicana playing like this it's it's i feel like she could absolutely rip through wimbledon um kind of the way she did at the us open if she i know not everybody agrees with me about that and sometimes i think maybe i want that to happen because i do i want to see her have a run at wimbledon i think she's she lights the place up you know people love it she she loves it um and and i do think there is a danger that you can get a bit carried away with how her game looks against less powerful opponents and then when you see her against the real power hitters it can you can suddenly get a bit of a reality check but on grass i think if she can get a bit of flow going she's a heck of a player and she's going in a lot as well i like the fact that she's sort of hitting that forehand that's how she turned it around against Vekic hitting the forehand down the line and following it in really sort of hitting it almost on the move whilst going in there's definitely more conviction in that forehand than I have seen for a long time and more clarity more clarity about that game I still think that potential to be overpowered is probably always going to be there for Raducanu but there's definitely something different about the way she's playing in terms of clarity and and intent and And yeah, like she'd lost the first seven games of the match.

22:53And then suddenly she holds serve and she does this laughing celebration to the crowd who get behind her. And suddenly she's on a roll. It's there, you know, six games, six games in a row. Like these are both momentum confidence players, aren't they? Like that was the story of this match. Like it came in waves, didn't it? It was also a slightly pleasant reminder that actually is as horrible as the world is out there to Emma Adekano at times and it really bothers me there's actually huge support for her as well like she is really loved in this country by a lot of people you can get you can get swayed by the people in the comments section or the the hate that is out there and the jealousy that's out there but when you see when you see her having a good run you see the numbers the live numbers on the BBC Sport website tracking her matches they're like multiples more than everybody else um and you hear it in the stadium so yeah i want to hear and i want to see that at wimbledon yeah and i hope that she has that if she needs it i hope that she has that same sensation of like oh there's thousands of people here rooting for me to do well like putting their heart and soul into that and like man on the internet is not the people.

24:18It can sometimes feel like it, but it's not. A few other points of note from Queen's. Great week for Katie Bolter. Biggest win of her career over Elena Rabachner, 6-4 in the third. That was on Friday, the day that she and Rabachner had had to play two matches. I found it very tough to follow it up against Donna Vekic the following morning. But yeah, absolutely huge, huge win for Katie Bolter and a big run for her through to the semifinals. It's been a tough, tough time for Katie Bolter results wise. And it feels like there's quite a lot on this on this grass court season for her. So, yeah, big deal for her to reach that semifinal.

25:06Amanda Anisimova, David, tough week for her. She beat Laura Siegmund easily. And like I'd circled that as a real danger match for her. She breezed through that and it really, well, it settled my nerves on her behalf. And then she played this three setter against Evie Jovic, who is, she's a tough out Evie Jovic. And I think for a young-ish American to play a younger American is a tough thing. You know, like, I mean, I think any kind of intergenerational like, oh, you're the new big thing, aren't you? Like, I just think that's a tough dynamic. And I always thought this could be tough for Anisimova.

25:56Like, she's so, she's got that low central gravity over it. She's so strong. she handles the low bounce really well as I said I thought it was a cracking win from Raducanu to get the better of her as she did but Anissa Mova David looked so stressed to me so so stressed I know she's out of Berlin next week which suggests that maybe this wrist injury is still recurring and that is a worry and I'm sure feeding into the stress but I also just I'm worried for her with how the feeling of defending all these ranking points is weighing upon her I feel like she's another one who I mean obviously physical issues are a separate point and they feed into the the problem that I identify of not having momentum she is a A little bit like I feel with Raducanu.

26:54She needs to start getting some wins in a row to feel like she's getting somewhere, to feel like this is on autopilot. It doesn't feel like it's on autopilot the way it was last year. And her game on autopilot is absolutely devastating because she's got power on both sides that most people don't have. But yeah, Jovic is so quick, so tenacious, asks so many questions. and for a while Nisimov had answers to them but there's not really room for being off it and it's just not quite there at the moment Jovic I think is just going to keep getting better for the next couple of years, I don't know what her ceiling is because I don't know how much power becomes a factor for her that maybe she doesn't have but what a competitor and Anisimova needs to be absolutely bang on it to win that sort of match and she just wobbled a bit late on she sort of you could see the doubts you could feel the doubts.

28:01Yeah and you know quoting what Pam said to us about Dona Vekic about how a positive mindset is that this serve is the most important shot from a mindset perspective you know I've got these kind of mental mindset concerns about anisimova and the serve is a problem at the moment. And I'm sure that's both chicken and egg. And I think big picture, it might be a situation of she realises the serve isn't where it needs to be. She's trying to make some changes to it. The ball toss looks very high at the moment. Sort of my heart goes in my mouth when it goes up and I'm like, is that ever coming down? and it might be a two steps back for one step forward situation with the serve, which it so often is.

28:46It's so hard to make technical changes to a shot while you're on tour and competing. It's kind of bonkers, really, but the schedule is stuff that that's what you have to do. So, yeah, I think it's just a tumultuous period for Amanda Enesimova and just her situation of all these ranking points suddenly to defend made me think of, I'm reading the audio book for Matt Futterman's book that is going to be coming out at the start of August, which is a tremendous honour to have been asked to do that. And I really hope that I'm doing an okay job of it because it is such a wonderful book. And I don't want to spoiler at all what's uh what's in there but there's a passage which i just read in my latest um recording studio session about how you know anybody that's you know done any sort of self reflection or therapy or whatever it is will know that like the the most unhealthy thing you can possibly do as a human being is compare yourself to a past version of yourself like it it made me think of it this week when Emma Raducanu very understandably was asked, is the old Emma back?

30:10And she gently rebuffed that concept. She said, no, this is a new me and she's great. You know, like, let's not compare me to 2021, Emma. And that is the healthy mindset to have. But the way that tennis operates and the way the rankings operate, the rolling 12-month system, it is trying to force you into comparing yourself to the past version of yourself, to the 12 -months-ago version of yourself. It is designed to force you into this vortex of deeply unhealthy self-think. And I think it takes a tremendous amount of work to try and not be defined by that, I suppose. And I really feel for them with that struggle, I suppose, is all I'm trying to say, as well as the fact that the book is excellent.

31:09And I think all our listeners would enjoy it. And some tough news from Queen's with Victoria Mboko. Obviously, she was kind of in the headlines going into the week because who she was partnered with in the doubles. And that was a huge story at the start of the week. All eyes were on Serena and Mboko playing their first round doubles match against Nicole Melikar Martinez and Erin Routliff. It was the end of the day on Tuesday. Full crowd in. it had been I think I mean most of the days earlier in the week were kind of wet and miserable at Queen's but the sun had come out it was one of those glorious Queen's evenings Serena Williams and Victoria Mboko were victorious I mean I think Melikar Martinez and Erin Routliff kind of shat themselves a bit about who was at the other end of the court and I think that could happen quite a lot for Serena Williams on her comeback and it was just you know it was just an incredible scene, really.

32:13Serena had her husband and children on the court and was clearly absolutely thrilled to be back. And then Victoria Mboko takes to the singles court the following day. And she suffers this awful looking fall, which immediately looks bad, immediately. And she has to retire from that match against Pliskova, withdraws from the tournament, withdraws from the doubles. So that run with Serena ends with a whimper. And then we hear the news that Victoria Mboko is out of the rest of the grass court season, including Wimbledon. And it's just such a bummer, David. Yeah, it really is. And it was such a joyous scene, really, with her and Serena.

32:56And, wow, Victoria Mboko just reminding everybody what a talent she is, even in that doubles match, I think. You know, the way she moves, the way she hits. And she was one of the players I was really looking forward to seeing over the next month or so. Devastated for her, really. At the same time, you know, that was a very good-looking Serena Williams performance considering the woman hasn't played for four years. And I am fascinated to see her. I mean, she's playing Berlin now. Do you read much into it in terms of if there is singles in the offing? well i think she did it make i think oh she could because my i always think well of course she can hit the tennis ball well like she'll be able to do that when she's 90 and we know we know she's been training very hard from this for this and we know that service technique is so good that she'll kind of always have that serve i don't know i for me movement is the whole it really yeah i agree singles and you don't really see that's not i thought she was getting around the court well in a limited manner because you you're not asked the same questions absolutely but there was there were some crossings over where i thought wow you know she really still bounds around a tennis court um at the age of what is it 44 um so amazing um i think she will play singles again absolutely um i don't know whether it's too early and i and she sort of intimated that for wimbledon to to not play any singles and then play singles at wimbledon wow that's that's quite a quite a thing to do i still wouldn't put it past her i would not be surprised if we're talking in a few days time about serena williams getting a wild card for wimbledon really wouldn't be surprised kind of hope we are personally um but um yeah it's it's that bittersweet feeling because that day was pretty joyous and the crowd looked like they couldn't believe the luck and victoria mboka looked like she couldn't believe her luck and yet she's the one at 19 years of age who's going home and can't play now it's just terrible um but um yeah it certainly it certainly makes next week's wildcard announcement interesting yes i feel like i don't know just like hindrance calls and uh uh puking is on the rise watery shits are on the rise i feel like sort of a big deal wildcard or controversial or headline wildcard announcements are also on the rise.

35:47Maybe that's recency bias perception, but that is how it feels to me. Before we move on to the men's, so Toggenbosch, WTA 250 and an ATP 250 there this week. A huge bummer today for them over there. There was no singles final because Barbora Krejcikova had to withdraw ahead of it with illness, which handed a first WTA Tour title to Robin Montgomery. Now, Robin Montgomery is a name you might remember from a couple of seasons ago. I remember her from Madrid a couple of seasons ago. We definitely talked about her on this pod. She qualified there and won a couple of rounds, including a win over Katie Bolter.

36:32And then she played Irina Sabalenka and gave her a run for her money. It was an electric match. We were both, we were all really, I've erased Matt. He's gone. He's dead to me. We were all really taken with Robin Montgomery's tennis. 6-4 in the third, I think it was, against Sabalenka. And it hadn't really occurred to me that we just hadn't heard from her in the past year, David. She's only 21 years old. But she didn't play between June of last year, when she had reached a career high ranking of 95 in the world, until April of this year. She was out with a wrist injury for that time and has had a really terrible time in these formative early years of her career.

37:22She won the Orange Bowl in 2019, then a pandemic hits. You know, I'm always kind of fascinated by these players that were hit by the pandemic at that formative early turning pro stage at their careers. I think that's just been such a huge setback for them in particular. and here she is, David, coming out of nowhere, beating, well, qualifying for starters, then beating Dario Kazekina, Grip Minnan, Darius Sniger and Ila Tomljanovic en route to this title. And okay, these aren't, you know, the biggest names in the sport, but they're all sorts of different players and they're players that know their way around a grass court and they're all players that probably would have been the favourite ahead of world number 484, Robin Montgomery.

38:14David? Yeah, I do tend to forget people, I'm afraid, in that situation. We had it with Katie McNally recently, didn't we? When you suddenly realise, wow, where's she been? And oh, goodness, she's had an injury like that. That's horrible. And actually, I was reading Chris Clary's tweet about Robin Montgomery. he said grass is a good fit for her big often sliced lefty serve you know and i was suddenly thinking yes now this is coming back to me you know that that she's a left-hander with this sort of game and and yeah another another one's to sort of throw into the mix and make you feel like the grass quarters are alive and well that they can impact people with that that sort of game and he was saying that she's the lowest ranked player to win a WTO title since Alina Svitolina who was 508 when she won Strasbourg in 2023.

39:16Yeah, it's a false ranking. She's gone up a good couple of hundred places after this. So, yeah, it's great to see somebody, obviously shame for critique of her, but it's great to see somebody like this who's had a real rough time with their luck and their ranking is deflated as a result, suddenly get somewhere immediately and can get back into the conversation. She's definitely a dormant volcano, Kroj Chikova, isn't she? Absolutely. I was very relieved to see that it was, obviously get well soon, but illness rather than injury that kept her out of this final because in terms of a potential eruption at Wimbledon, she's got time to recover from an illness and be an interesting factor at Wimbledon.