Has Laver Cup won us over?

0:10Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast on this fine Tuesday, September afternoon, less than 48 hours after our last podcast. We're straying dangerously close to Grand Slam Daily's territory. But it's good to be back. Matt is here. Hello, Matt. Hello, yes, I think it was Arvind on the barge asked whether we're going to complete the podcast on every single day of the week in 2025 outside of the majors. And I think Tuesday is certainly going a long way to helping us do that. We were planning our schedule for the rest of the year. We've got one on a Saturday coming up. So I reckon we can do it with tennis's weird and wonderful scheduling.

0:57I mean, this might be us doing it right now. I feel like Tuesday is kind of the most unusual day for us to pod. But here we are, David, committed as ever to having an annual existential chat about the Labour Cup. No, I'm not going to have it. I'm going to talk about other things because I've done eight of them. OK, well, our first item in the agenda is Labour Cup, David. Fine. I'm going to avoid the existential chat bit. Well, what have you got then? What have you got for us? Entertaining, well run, seemed quite competitive. Saw a couple of amazing shots, particularly from Carlos Alcaraz. That's about it, really.

1:51okay team world defeated team europe 15 to 9 much to the delight of team world and its new captain andre agassi the tournament this year of course being held in san francisco allowing for the single use gag of carlos alcaraz visiting alcatraz island which frankly let's let's all be honest with ourselves, we all enjoyed. It was clinched, the title, by Taylor Fritz for Team World, the ultimate Lever Cup Team World servant. He beat Alexander Zverev, of course, to clinch the victory. If Zverev had won that match, it would have gone down to the deciding doubles because, of course, of how the points are structured and the ratchet system of how points are awarded with the most being awarded for wins on the final day of competition.

2:45David's dispensed his takes onto the people. Matt, what have you got? Well, it was funny. Labour Cup being in that time zone was kind of a test, I suppose, of how much I wanted to watch it because I think it was starting most days at about 9pm here in the UK. and I watched what was available to me before my bedtime. I didn't stay up specially to watch Leva Cup, but what I watched, I enjoyed. I have to say, as I always do, I always like the event in the moment. I think it looks good. I think the content that it produces is really entertaining. I find it quite frustrating that here in the UK We watch it on TNT now and they go to ads during the changeovers, which the best bit, you know, which for me are some of the absolute best bits.

3:47And then, you know, I caught up in the morning and watched, you know, highlights and and enjoyed what I saw. And what I saw was Pat Crowds, Carlos Alcaraz doing, well, mostly Carlos Alcaraz things. there was one moment where he got taken apart by Taylor Fritz in straight sets which was a very un-Carlos Alcaraz thing but he also was in a bit of a nose strip era and I think not feeling particularly well for the first couple of days of this event before sort of turning it on the final day And that cost the content a bit, didn't it? Because he was sort of separating himself a bit from everybody else because he was clearly a bit ill but that meant sort of less Carlos Alcaraz hanging out with other tennis players and being a vibe content, which is...

4:36Which was a shame. Yeah, which is a lot of what the Labour Cup's about. Yeah. I think I enjoyed the slightly freshened up nature of it with the new captains this year. You know, I think Agassi in particular was really into it and the bits of advice that I did see him giving I thought was really kind of insightful. Yannick and Noah had a different approach to captaincy, should we say. um taking it a little bit less seriously i think on the whole but you know i i think that was needed for the event to get those those new captains in to freshen it up um i also don't really want to go into the whole what does it mean thing i feel like we've done that chat to death i think it's a pretty unique event in the tennis calendar I always enjoy it and then I kind of move on from it and I'll enjoy it again next year that is that's kind of where I am with with Labour Cup yeah look I'm not desperate to get into it either and we're not going to it's only the fact that you sort of just inevitably by being on social media at all during Labour Cup time of year get exposed to the sort of very aggressive propaganda takes of people that are just desperate to convince you and gaslight you into how meaningful this is and that just it just riles me up and it makes me want to sort of pop back but we've had seven previous Labour Cup podcasts on which to do that and I don't it ends up me being kind of more negative about the event than I than I really want to be.

6:20I just don't think that Carlos Alcaraz losing that match to Taylor Fritz means absolutely anything in the actual sporting world. If you start speeding him at slams and on tour I'll eat my words happily. They might meet in the final of Tokyo this week, mightn't they? I did enjoy the moment, the clip that's been circulating of Carlos Alcaraz turning off the TV that was showing the celebrations of Team World on it after they won I really did enjoy that clip very relatable stuff from Alcaraz just one little tennis insight that I got from it kind of off the court was the news that Alexander Zverev had had injections in his back since the US Open and that doesn't sound great for him I mean he didn't win a set either and yes maybe he might put more in in certain other events he looked like he was trying hard to me and he just he's way short and and if his back's a problem then then that's kind of new isn't it in his career I mean he's he had that very serious ankle injury but usually he's a bit of a physical kind of monster really in terms of his ability to just keep on going but yeah that's not good I did see a stat about his first serve percentage being quite considerably down on his average which that would all check out wouldn't it and that high first serve percentage is one of the bedrocks of his game isn't it I don't think he's got enough else to fall back on that he can afford to afford to lose that okay well those are our those are our takes dispensed let's hear shall we from somebody who was there uh in san francisco taking in the labor cup and has sent us some reportage from the ground in san francisco it's a brilliant voice note from the athletics matt futterman hey there friends greetings from california sorry if i sound a little fuzzy i didn't travel with my fancy new microphone it's a little heavy and you know my rules about limiting myself to hand luggage only Anyway, we'll make do.

8:41I don't share a lot in common with Patrick Rafter. I mean, we both like a lot of the same things. Tennis, surfing, beer. He just handles all of them better than I do, I'm pretty sure. But we both came to the Labor Cup with the same attitude, I think. We traveled from opposite directions with the same level of skepticism. It was his first go-round as vice captain. It was my first go-round as a reporter on assignment at this event that is still searching for its identity. The Ryder Cup of Tennis is fine for PowerPoint presentations when you're trying to raise money. It's not great when you're eight years into a venture.

9:16Plus, I've been to the Ryder Cup. It's deadly serious business. Maybe too serious. But it is serious. This is not quite that. The day before the start of the Labor Cup, everyone involved, especially Rafter, had the air of the misbehaving boys at elementary school on a day when a substitute teacher is running things. Irreverent doesn't begin to describe it. It was just a bunch of goofing off. It wasn't clear if many of them even knew the rules, or how or when the lineups got selected. They were all acting like they were too cool for any of this, even to learn the rules. Rafter announced that his team wouldn't be selecting the matchups on Saturday, completely unaware that is supposed to be kept under wraps for strategic reasons until after play ends on day one.

10:01Oops. Frankly, I was wondering why I had flown across the country for what showed every signal of hitting and giggling. If they didn't care, why should I? Should I just bail? I went for a run on the San Francisco waterfront Friday morning. It's one of the most beautiful harbors in the world. There was the Golden Gate Bridge and the hills of Marin County. That helped my spirits. Then the ball started to fly at noon. Almost instantly, everything changed. Very quickly, it became clear that these players can't really help themselves, even when they feel like they're too cool for something. If there's something on the line, they compete It's like oxygen to them Suddenly they're flying off the bench Taylor Fritz and Carlos Alcaraz were hovering over their teammates Giving all kinds of advice I plugged in my headphones to listen to the constant stream from both benches It's one of the master strokes of this event Listening to players talk tennis with other players And pump each other up in real time And since they have to sit and watch most of every match It's not the sort of thing you can really fake for seven hours That was my gateway drug And it didn't take long before I was totally hooked And so were they They definitely weren't faking when they exploded off their couches When Alcaraz hit the most ridiculous drop volley in the history of drop valleys He drop shotted a guy standing at the net six feet away Alex Mickelson is long and pretty fast And never had a prayer of getting to the ball It's pure genius Look, I really wish this event had women in it I've always thought that was a big missed opportunity for Federer Who dreamed up the whole thing with Tony Godzik, his business partner Four men and four women on each team and mixed doubles would be really cool Other than that, I can't say I have a lot of negative notes on the Laver Cup I'm as surprised as anyone to be saying that I feel like they have made so many great decisions And seriously, who actually cares what I think?

11:58There were 18 ,000 fans paying a lot of money packing the Chase Center for five consecutive sessions. And it was packed, even during the day on Friday. This wasn't one of those sellouts where people buy tickets and only come to a couple of matches. Just like it did for the mixed doubles at the U.S. Open, the market speaks loudly in favor of some innovation in tennis. And I hope the folks who run the traditional tournaments are paying attention. I'm totally sold on best of three with match tie breaks for the third set. I want them everywhere now except the slams. But talk to me in a couple years, because I might want them there too.

12:35It's very simple. The tension gets turned up quickly and never stops rising, unless the player who wins the first set runs away with the second. In the traditional best-of-three format, there's a fight for the first set, and then there's really only one player with much on the line in the second. With a match tiebreak looming, the player who won the first set really, really does not want to lose the second. It's actually a terrible, terrible option, especially losing it late. And when that happens, it's game on. The whole thing is on the line in the next 10 minutes. There's no lull during the first half of any set, especially a third set.

13:13Also, at this level, anyone can win a set of tennis against anyone else. Then there's the tie break, which is basically a coin flip, unless Arena Sabalinka is playing it, of course. I loved it I was very aware that when I stepped away to do an interview Or grab food or go to the bathroom That I might very likely be missing something that felt important That's different I love the coaches on the court I want them there in every tournament Humans interacting with humans It just makes everything more dramatic Who knew? And as I mentioned before The ability to hear what they are saying is fascinating Even if they don't have much worthwhile to say Maybe especially if they don't have anything worthwhile to say.

13:56Early on, it was clear that the fact that Yannick Noah barely watches tennis and didn't even bother meeting with or talking to half his team before the week started was a pretty big handicap. He was at the top of the top of the too-cool-for-school list before the action got underway, and even on Friday when play started. He and Tim Henman seemed to spend most of the changeovers saying the same thing to every player. That's right. Every changeover, every player. Henman, first point, first point. Noah, take your shots. Thanks, guys. That's helpful. On the other hand, Andre Agassi gave every indication that he was completely invested in his player's success.

14:36He had so many little tips about positioning and shot selection. I've watched a lot of Alex Dimenor the last five years. I've never seen him use a tennis court like he did this weekend. I've never seen him attack returns like he did. I've never seen him attack the net like, well, Pat Rafter. He was absolutely ferocious. I was sitting with Federer at one point when Dimonor ripped a forehand. He didn't have that shot when I was playing him, Federer said. Likewise, Fritz didn't just try to hang in baseline exchanges with Alcaraz. He stepped in and attacked them when he saw a chance. He took the ball early and then chased his shot into the net over and over and over.

15:15Reminded me of somebody who was sitting on the bench, or a couple guys who were sitting on the bench. I even liked the thing I thought I would hate, the graduated scoring system. One point for a win on Friday, two for a win Saturday, three on Sunday. It seemed gimmicky. Then again, Ryder Cups when one team only needs to win one or two of the final day's matches are empty and over before they begin. Team World needed to win two of four matches to clinch on Sunday. Team Europe needed to win three to force a one-set doubles overtime match. Both seemed very possible with Alcaraz on the court seemingly all day.

15:53And with Zverev coming back late against Fritz in the final match and a suddenly on-fire Alcaraz ready to go out for a third time that day for the deciding set of doubles, Fritz getting over the line felt essential. Winning his first match point felt vital. As for those matches worth just one point on Friday, they felt important in their own way too, especially for the underdog team World Squad that had lost the first two matches and looked headed for a bloodbath. They needed a win for Team Psyche. They huddled around a very nervous Giao Fonseca on every changeover and helped him get what he needed to blow past Flavio Capoli.

16:30If you haven't seen a clip of them chanting Fonseca's name on those changeovers as they circled around him, you're in for the treat. That was in the middle of the match. And they did it a lot. I know I sound like I've swallowed the whole bowl of Kool-Aid. I promise I felt this way a long time. before I got the green light to sit with Federer courtside during the second set of Dimonor and Mensik on Sunday. I did enjoy that a lot. As Carlitos would say, I can't lie, I can't lie. I've had breakfast with presidents and Nobel Peace Prize winners. Having Roger Federer talk me through half a set of tennis was way better.

17:05But getting back to the matter at hand, who knew a tennis event could fit into a long weekend? Think about it. It's mid-September. There's two more months of tennis ahead. It already feels like it's been a very long year Much of the blame for that falls on those two-week Masters 1000 events And they really are two weeks once you factor in practice days and travel Laver Cup was done and dusted in three days Twelve matches, five sessions And did I mention all those sessions were sold out and filled to capacity? Yeah, I know I did It bears repeating because the phenomena Fewer sessions, more sellouts, better vibes are related every week matches take place somewhere in mostly empty stadiums and tennis.

17:49That's the market saying something about what tennis is offering. Again, who cares what I think? I'm just one sports writer in America. But sometimes there really is a wisdom of the crowds. Or the sport can just keep rolling out the same often dreary draggy format week after week. I'm not saying blow the whole thing up, but there's really no harm in some fan-friendly experimentation and innovation. I will throw Matt Roberts a bone and use that phrase that coaches used to use to describe Clint Dempsey, the American who played for Fulham. What made him good? He tries shit, they would say. Hey, tennis, try some shit.

18:27Some of it won't work. But sometimes you might end up with something like that Carlitos drop shot. That's all from the Golden State. Be well. Talk soon. Excellent voice note there from Matt Futterman. Thank you, Matt, for that. Apparently that's the effect of getting to watch half a set of tennis with Roger Federer. And the write-up of that is available now on The Athletic. Just below a piece that seems to be about Carlos Alcaraz's silver hair. Which, you know, read that while you can. Because that hair is growing out at a rate of knots. Matt, anything? He's thrown you a clint, empty bone there.

19:10Anything you want to react to? that boy Clint Dempsey scores with his left he scores with his right yeah love that guy love that from Matt Futterman that Carlos Alcarez drop shot was unbelievable and the reaction of his team I particularly enjoyed all sort of jumping up and looking at him as though he's some kind of tennis alien because they all know how how hard it is to be able to have such soft hands and drop shot a guy who was standing at the net yeah um i really did enjoy that that moment um look i think the point matt makes generally about tennis's need for innovation i think is is a great one you know we're constantly talking about tennis being a little bit stuck and whether the laver cup is your is your dream sort of innovation that you would want to see in the sport I think unquestionably you would you would have to say that as an innovation it has been pretty successful and I think it's also notable that Matt was covering the Labour Cup for the first time his first time going to the event in person and that is generally what I hear from people who go to the Labour Cup you know they enjoy it um and they have a good time and look none of us have have been yet to a labor cup i think it's in london next year isn't it so maybe we'll get to experience it ourselves for the first time and be be won over by it maybe a little bit more than we have been seeing it in person um but yeah i think to me i'm gonna go a little bit existential here and I apologise to David for that and maybe myself because I said I wouldn't but it's almost impossible to talk about the Labour Cup I think without getting a little bit existential to me there is room in the tennis calendar for an event like the Labour Cup I've always found the idea of as Matt said there trying to call it the Ryder Cup of tennis to be wrong really because by very nature they've come up with two teams, Europe against the world, that doesn't create any kind of sort of partisanship or rivalry in the same way that Europe versus the US or, you know, back in the early days of the Ryder Cup, I think it was GB and Ireland versus the US, wasn't it?

21:49So, you know, right there you had rivalry at the heart of it and you just don't really get that with the Labour Cup, which I think is a big problem for the event if it wants to be taken as seriously as the Ryder Cup. And also the scoring system is something where I disagree with Matt. I do think the scoring system remains pretty gimmicky. And again, if you want it to be ultra serious, then I think you would just have a normal scoring system. I get why they have it, but I think that scoring system is at odds with trying to call it the Ryder Cup. of tennis but i go back to something that i remember charlie equishare saying on a on a pod maybe it was last year maybe it was two years ago i can't quite remember but when he talked about do we necessarily need tennis to have an ultra serious event at this time of year you know and again this is where the comparison with the rider cup in golf makes it difficult because golf's majors take up 16 days you know there is room in that calendar for another big competitive all-in event I'm not convinced there necessarily is room for that in tennis when the majors are taking up what about 60 days and we already have our team events the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup I think where maybe I slightly differ from you two is that and I don't want to put words in your mouth but it's just my general sense over the years is that I don't find the Lever Cup to be so sort of antagonistic to the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup personally I think there's kind of room for both I would love to see the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup be even bigger but the fact they're not I don't blame the Lever Cup for that I think the Lever Cup's got a little window in this calendar, which, as Matt said, takes up three days.

23:46In the early days, it definitely had buy-in from Federer and Nadal, and therefore, I'm watching. Now it seems to have buy-in from Alcaraz. I'm watching. Could the field be better? Yes. Do I have some issues? I think a big one, I still find it uncomfortable seeing Zverev there at the event when some of those allegations against him were made and where we know that sort of commentators on the event were sort of told not to talk about those allegations in the past you know I find all that an uncomfortable element of Lever Cup watching it personally but I think there's the space for it in the calendar I enjoy it in the moment it doesn't like I'm not thinking about Lever Cup matches when I come to sort of review the year personally but people seem to enjoy it and overall I think it's a sort of well-run event but I do share your takes about please, please stop ramming it down my throat that this is like a mega important event in the tennis calendar because it's not and structurally I don't think it will be without some pretty big changes but the players buy in I think with their captains on the side and their teammates on the side I've never thought it was hit and giggle.

25:07Maybe when Guillermo Fiste was there and sort of he was doing a hit and giggle and that whole thing was perhaps a little bit uncomfortable. But generally, I do see competitive matches and players wanting to win. And I enjoy it, but it doesn't sort of move me in a big way, if that makes sense. David? Matt this was held the same week as Billie Jean King Cup so absolutely it affects Billie Jean King Cup now I realise that Billie Jean King Cup moved itself into this week but there might be physical room for these events but is there physical is there mental room for multiple team events if you want people to to really buy into the davis cup and billy jean king cup when you then look across the way at this mega rich lavish event which has got federer's backing obviously it's his event he can do whatever the hell he likes he's an entrepreneur but if you care about the sport and you see davis cup dying the way it is by comparison and you see Andre Agassi making out like this is the most important thing in the world and and saying to these players at the end you know if I pick up the phone if you pick up the phone to me the answer is yes before before I even answer okay well can you coach me year-round Andre I'm sure I'm sure the answer wouldn't be yes anyway um I see Yannick Noah when Yannick Noah was the captain of France to that title twice he spent the whole year planning every element of winning that thing just the way that Luke Donald is trying to go to Bethpage and spending two years of his life.

26:58As Matt said, he turned up to this, he barely even knew who the players were. I saw the press comments afterwards. They weren't bothered at all. They had a lovely week, which is absolutely fine. And I think that that is the way to view the thing. Team Wales were definitely more bothered than Europe, weren't they? Yeah, I'm sure. And I'm sure that was a sort of top-down thing from the captaincy. I do think you're right. The way to enjoy it is to just enjoy it and stop trying to look for meaning and comparing it. And fine, I'll ignore Tony Godstick or whoever it might be saying that it's the Ryder Cup because it's clearly not, right?

27:39But as Matt said, there's thousands and thousands of people turning up and having a lovely time. But I'm afraid it is not helping Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup, which are the important team events in tennis. And all of these people who are getting paid just enormous sums of money to turn up at this thing when the European team in Ryder Cup just turn up for free because that's the event. Now, I realise Davis Cup teams do get paid, not prize money maybe, but certainly some sort of appearance fee. Nothing like what the Labour Cup are paying. No, and listen, as I said, he's an entrepreneur running a business and he's got massive sponsorship good for him he's made something incredible and and it's thousands and thousands of people are loving it i just think that's a bit of a shame and and and it's really up to the individual as to whether they enjoy this i i enjoy it a bit to to an extent and i can totally understand why the tens of thousands that turn up enjoy it um but it's not really for me i don't i'm just not that i'm not moved by it and and and i'm i'm pleased for the people that enjoy it and i'm quite happy to move on i just wish something could help the davis cup and the billy jinking cup and you may well say well that's not roger federer's responsibility and it's not but wouldn't it be great if it is a shame though isn't it if you cared about tennis and and you could you that you just decided actually i think we should all get in a room and try and help help those events you know roger federer doesn't really get out of bed for anything in tennis that's not the labor cup and i know he does genuinely believe in it and and and in the value of it but that is you you can't disentangle that from the fact that he is commercially invested in it.

29:39And that does seem to be what he cares about. You know, it's access to Roger Federer, from what I can gather from people that are, you know, trying to get access to Roger Federer to promote other parts of the sport, you know, the ATP, whatever might be going on. It's, yeah, I'll only do anything or I'll only consider doing anything if there's promotion for the Labour Cup involved. And look, that's good, as you say, David, that's good business. If all he's interested in is business, good luck to him, that's fine. He can do what he likes, but I do find it disappointing and I do, I think, undoubtedly, the event is a tremendous success, but I kind of think whatever Roger Federer's value and sheen in tennis is so high and will continue to be so high that I kind of think whatever he was putting himself behind would be a success.

30:38Like, it's got the people and the sponsors and everything involved in it because of Roger Federer. And, I don't know, like, imagine if just a fraction of that was put towards something other than the Labour Cup. It just doesn't... Yeah, I find it a great shame from a... from a Federer point of view. Can I just come back on the Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup point a little bit? Because I take that point. It was in the same week as the Billie Jean King Cup finals this week. As you said, David, that was a choice from the Billie Jean King Cup finals to go with that week. They've not been in direct competition before.

31:21I think the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup, or Fed Cup as it was then, were in decline way before the Labour Cup came along, like way before. I really struggled to see the ultimate connection, really. I know they're team events, but then we don't talk like that about the United Cup. We don't watch the United Cup and say, oh, this is in direct contrast and attack it every year because of the Billie Jean King Cup and the Davis Cup. Like, to me, there are much bigger factors as to why the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup have been reduced in significance than the Labour Cup. I think one of them, Matt has touched on in his voice note, the two-week Masters events.

32:11I find them way more egregious and way more disruptive to the whole tennis ecosystem than three days of Lever Cup. You know, players are tired. And the incentive to play a big Lever Cup weekend where they get big prize money and it's only three days and it's a short format, I totally get why they're playing that. Totally understand it. It's also a different type of team event. You know, it's not country against country. It's star-driven. And I just don't see it the same way as you in terms of the competition between Labour Cup and Billie Jean King Cup and Davis Cup.

32:59I'm never watching Labour Cup thinking, oh, this is terrible for the Billie Jean King Cup. I mean, there isn't even a women's version of the Labour Cup. I agree with Matt, it'd be great if there was. I mean, you've got to say it was terrible for it last week. I know that that was Billie Jean King Cup's choice to move itself, but it was swallowed by the Labour Cup in terms of oxygen. It was. I mean, I went on the tennis channel website, tennis.com. I think they were showing both events and they had basically no coverage of the Billie Jean King Cup and total coverage of the Labour Cup. So yes, in that sense, but that was the Billie Jean King Cup's choice.

33:36They were all stakeholders in this thing. And just... Where does that, you know... For example, I believe... believe the reason that the schedule at this time of year, the reason that we're all here on a Tuesday and events are starting on a Wednesday is to provide time for players to get from Labour Cup to ATP events starting this week. Like that is, that's the tour moving for Labour Cup in a way that they don't. But is that Labour Cup's fault? Wouldn't you say that's the tour's fault for not buying into the Davis Cup and the finishing King Cup.

34:21Yeah, but I mean, I would say that, I mean, I think it's the Roger Federer effect. Like, I honestly think that he can just sort of click his fingers and get people to do whatever. And I just resent that some of that isn't going towards the stuff that really, really benefits tennis.

34:40And maybe that's not on him. but uh yeah no I I kind of feel in between the both of you um I don't oh no we've gone existential yeah I don't quite feel the sort of direct Laver Cup takes away from Billie Jean King Cup and is a and and Davis Cup and is a threat to them sort of in quite the same way you do David but I I also don't think that I mean there's just too much tennis isn't there it's just way too much tennis like any extra thing on the calendar is like there's just not room for and there's not room for the stuff we've already got like six kings go away anything that comes along with like loads of money behind it is going to take away from the existing tour tennis that we're trying to care about because there just isn't there isn't enough carlos alcaraz to go around for all this stuff.

35:36Good point about the two-week Masters 1000s, though, absolutely. It just feeds into an overall sense of frustration to me that the important stuff isn't really looked after. And then such a massive amount of investment is made in this. And again, it's his own product, but it's made to seem so much bigger than it is because the best photographers are being bought and paid by the event to put out as many pictures as possible. The best videographers are tired to put out as many clips as possible. Good luck to them, but it's just, it's a bit like PR against journalism. It's just not quite right to me.

36:23It's a shame. Okay, well, that was part one of the show, us not having an existential chat about the Labour Cup. Join us in part two when the plan is to have a chat about the tour events that have happened this week. Who knows what will end up happening, though? See you on the other side. Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast, where we're going to try and talk about tennis. Let's start in Seoul and the WTA 500 event that was happening there over the last week, won by Iga Svjantek. She beat Ekaterina Alexandrovich in a fantastic final. 1-6, 7-6, 7-5, hung right in the balance, right the way through to the end.

37:07It's her 25th career title, Svantec, and that is from 30 finals played. Finals, Igor Svantec, is an absolute beast. She had to play her quarterfinals and semifinals on the same day. They had a lot of rain in Seoul last week. I think she won bagel sets in both of them. Shontek including one over Barbora Krejcikova. Krejcikova herself had quite a week. She saved match points to beat Emma Adekanu in an extraordinary match in the second round. It was a fun week in Seoul, wasn't it? And it feels, David, like the eager Shontek assault on year-end number one is happening to me. And particularly now that I think Irina Sabalenka is not playing Beijing, which is significant.

38:01It's good going from Svantec to, I think particularly to kind of race through an event the way she did and then have this absolute scrap in the final. You know, that must be quite a gear change to have to go through to to to be winning the thing easily, kind of, and then getting in the final. And then suddenly you're on the receiving end of what you've been dishing out and you've got to find a way back into it. I think that's immensely impressive. and yeah I mean it was it was quite quite a nice sort of storyline as well that her father was was competing in the Seoul Olympics and and you know back in 88 and she wanted to to win at the tournament in that city you know and and and I I think that's really quite cool and she did it and obviously meant a lot to her and yeah a good final too what a great final i i thought alexandreva was was excellent i i sort of think i think she's she's got that little antidote to that bounding cross-court forehand of of svantec that hurts say in some over and so many other players because she just slams it down the line with the forehand and was really hurting svantec back but yeah got the job done and and as you said it's it's an interesting rankings race now it's funny you say like final Sviontek because to me this was like very different Iga Sviontek final to the one that we usually see from her like I know she's ended up winning it but I think that first set is the worst set I've ever seen Iga Sviontek play in a final it's the first time she's won a final from a set down on the tour you know normally she comes out is playing well and wipes the floor most of the time with whoever she's playing.

39:58I know she's had some close great finals as well. But she was so bad in that first set, overhitting constantly and just committing to overhitting, not changing anything up, just constantly coming up with the same unforced errors. And, you know, looking at the stats of this match at the end of it, an absolutely giant of a mental performance from Igor Sviontek. She hit fewer aces. She hit more double faults. She hit fewer winners. She hit more unforced errors. She had a worse breakpoint conversion rate. She won way fewer points than Alexandreva. And yet she won the match because she won the big moments, you know.