Has women’s tennis served its purpose for Saudi Arabia?

16:02Catherine Whitaker:They had a bit of extra fizz, a bit of extra life in them and sort of helped his power. And there was an absolutely blockbuster rally in this one for him to break at the end of the second set, back and forth. And Mazzetti finished it with an incredible backhand cross-court winner. And yeah, he was a little bit rusty to start with, but he shouted out his mentality in his on-court interview afterwards. And I thought I noted that as well. I thought he could have got down on himself playing Moutet, who was whipping it all up. But he focused and that's just what he needed. I think a couple of matches and a couple of wins.

16:36Catherine Whitaker:And yeah, can't wait for Fils-Mazzetti, 3pm UK tomorrow.

16:42Matt Roberts:Yeah. OK. That's the bottom half of the draw. So top half of the quarterfinals, Ryblev against Mahac. Majedovic, Borges. Majedovic got the better of third seed Alex de Menor a couple of days ago, 7-6, 6-4. I know it's not his best surface, Clay, for de Menor, but is he on your... Are you... How many... Are we amber flagging Alex de Menor? Just the polish, the sheet, I don't know, just doesn't seem... the vibes aren't quite right

17:15Catherine Whitaker:no I know

17:16Matt Roberts:I think we often

17:17Catherine Whitaker:I think we often have this though with Dimon Orr like he often comes out the blocks of a season really good United Cup Australia playing at home he tends to tends to do what you expect of him there and perform he's got a terrible record in the Sunshine Double Indian Wells Miami he's never really played particularly well in didn't again this year and as you said the clay doesn't really suit him I think his eggs that he gets in movement is slightly negated because people are sliding into shots and maybe reaching more balls than they do and his flat hits don't really penetrate the court so much I'm not waving any flags yet

18:01Matt Roberts:but

18:02Catherine Whitaker:it has been noted that yeah he's definitely not he's definitely not playing as well as he was at the start of the season or end of last year hasn't got much

18:11Matt Roberts:to defend on grass has he? Because he had a dip, had a tough time on grass last year, didn't he? He said he was suffering from burnout and historically does really like grass. So there's gains to be had for him there a bit later in the season. Nuno Borges deserves a bit of a moment, doesn't he? Underarm serve winner on match point for him against Thomas Martin Echeverry. Prompted a whole article from the athletic a real like you know one one for the indie deep cut tennis fans this article i really enjoyed it um yeah if you like pablo cuevas yeah absolutely do you remember like when pablo cuevas like built your reputation is like the trick shot guy he was like the Algoraz of his dead.

19:04Matt Roberts:He won shot of the year.

19:05Catherine Whitaker:Yeah.

19:06Matt Roberts:Pablo Cuevas. Yeah, Nuno Borges. And I love how underarm serves just really expose people, expose the pearl clutches. Like, if you've got a problem with underarm serves, like, you are the problem. Yeah.

19:31Catherine Whitaker:Like, there was booing. People booed him. Why are we still booing people for doing underarm serves?

19:39Matt Roberts:It's a binary sort of idiot.

19:41Catherine Whitaker:And well, Etcheverry did not enjoy it. He gave him a very cold handshake. I can kind of get it from an opponent's perspective of being pissed off about it, of being like, I've been caught out there. But I think what happens is that mostly they're...

20:00Matt Roberts:Come on. Like, you would be, though, wouldn't you? Well, Tsitsipas did it, didn't he, at the US Open last year? Yeah, especially on a match point.

20:06Catherine Whitaker:On a match point, you would be annoyed by that, I think.

20:10Matt Roberts:It's not fair to be annoyed at your opponent.

20:14Catherine Whitaker:Agreed. You should be just annoyed that it's happened to you.

20:18Matt Roberts:Or, like, that's such a lame reaction.

20:22Catherine Whitaker:Absolutely. And I was thinking about this, And I don't actually think people have got a problem with an underarm serve per se. Like if you're a fan of a player and the player that they're playing is going to underarm serve against you all the time, you'd think, well, that's great. That's a really good thing. It's the being caught out by it. It's the element of surprise that people seem to think is like against the rules or against the code or all that kind of thing. But it's not. That's the beauty of it. That's the tactical element of it, especially on clay when people are returning so far back and leaving all that space.

21:02Matt Roberts:On clay or against Daniel Medvedev, it's a stunning tactic.

21:05Catherine Whitaker:And it's not easy to hit a good underarm serve. Like you have to execute that really well. And Borges, who was kind of injured, did it. And he kind of followed it in. I think he was going to underarm serve and serve volley. Yeah, it was wonderful. Loved it. All power to you, Nuno Borges.

21:26Matt Roberts:Absolutely, Nuno. You keep doing you. Just last bit of business I think we should touch upon from Barcelona from way back the start of the week. First match I watched in Barcelona, I think, actually, just after recording the last pod. Jack Draper against Thomas Martin Echeverri. Poor old Jack Draper, cannot catch a break with his body. Retired in the third set with a knee injury. So this is a different injury to the arm injury, the bone bruising that's kept him out for that six-month period. But also, he said, caused him to skip Monte Carlo semi-precautionarily. But obviously an indicator that that injury isn't completely in his past.

22:17Matt Roberts:It's a worrying picture, Matt, for Jack Draper. A really worrying picture, I think.

22:23Catherine Whitaker:I'm pretty concerned for him yeah me too his um Instagram post was pretty sad the wording of it and the choice of black and white photo it just it just it just painted a very somber picture really and yeah like I remember that for a long time it was the story wasn't it Jack Draper just can't stay fit. You know, it was often fighting his body. And then he had a real period where I thought he'd kind of overcome that. And then obviously the arm injury is the big one. And, you know, part of me was relieved that it wasn't the arm. And actually I did think the start of this match against Echeverria, okay, took him a little bit to get going, but he was really swinging aggressively at the ball and he wasn't playing with the sleeve.

23:16Catherine Whitaker:He had a nose strip, but no sleeve um and i thought okay maybe that's a good sign nose strip i'm in right i've got some of those at hand if he wins the title i can i can do the pod in a nose strip um so you know part of me was relieved but then if you're relieved about it being one injury and not another like that's just that's still not a good yeah sign is it and like We do seem to be really back in that unfortunate period where he just can't catch a break and can't play without injury at the moment. It's a worry.

23:59Matt Roberts:OK, we wish him well, obviously. Heading to Munich now in the ATP 500 there where the quarterfinals are also set. We have top seed, Alexander Zverev, top of the draw. he plays Francisco Sarundolo again, a matchup that we used to think was really tricky for Zverev, but latterly hasn't actually been tricky at all for Zverev. He's totally turned that matchup on its head.

24:31Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, big time. They played seven times and Sarundolo won the first three and Zverev's won the last four. interestingly all of Sarundolo's wins have been on clay and all of Zverev's wins have been on hard court like it's tipped as the surface has changed but I don't know there's just been something about the way Sarundolo has played Zverev recently where it's been very unconvincing you kind of used to think he was a guy who knew how to play Zverev and would show up against him and actually that has been not the case at all he's had a lot of those matches where he's not been feeling the ball and they've been they've been pretty tame losses

25:13Matt Roberts:really he's got he's got a big he's one of those big gaps between floor and ceiling players sarindolo sometimes he can look like and you can tell he's got no feel on the ball at all

25:26Catherine Whitaker:yeah yeah there's no hiding it yeah and sometimes as you said he's really dangerous and the forehand And when it's firing, it's one of the biggest on tour. Zverev had to fight through against Ketsmanovic in his first match, 7-6 in the third. Absolutely outrageous tweener volley that Zverev hit at 4-1 in that final set tie break. It clipped off the net cord and he adjusted really well. And at the last second, pulled off a sort of forward tweener volley. It was kind of the only shot he had and he made it. and the crowd were up with him. But David kind of called it. He was watching this one. He was saying that Isveriv can get through that against Ketsmanovic.

26:13Catherine Whitaker:He's played him tough. And it was that part of the week in Munich where it was cold, like really cold. Everyone's wrapped up.

26:22Matt Roberts:I was rowing back on all of my roof agendas. Get this indoors. Yeah, put this clay court tournament indoors immediately. what on earth are they playing at it looked it was making me feel cold just looking at it

26:38Catherine Whitaker:in my bones

26:39Matt Roberts:tennis shouldn't look like that no

26:43Catherine Whitaker:but like it just seemed like a match that's where I've had to get through in those conditions against the tough opponent he did get it through and David was like he'll probably be kind of locked in and fine now had it last year against

26:54Matt Roberts:Greeksport didn't he

26:56Catherine Whitaker:and he's he's thrashed Diallo today and the sun was out and it looked like a different It looked like a good place in Munich today.

27:04Matt Roberts:Yeah, banish the roofs. So Zverev Sorondolo to face the winner of Kabaly Kapriva. Very, very difficult match for me watching Kabaly beat Berg's. My two guys, my two new signings and my fantasy team. Well, not, I mean, my whole fantasy. I don't think I've got any returning players from last year's shit show. But I'm a Kabaly guy and I'm a Berg's guy. I feel a lot of affection for them both. But it does look a bit like Caballi's having one of those weeks where he's good.

27:37Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Yeah, he didn't need a very dramatic tie break this time to beat Berg's. Of course, I was excited for this match because the last time I saw it, it was one of the best matches I'd ever seen.

27:49Matt Roberts:Yeah, that was when I decided, right, I'm having both these guys in my team next year. Yeah. It was the match that, I mean, maybe it had been percolating in his mind for a while, but I feel like it was the match that precipitated the Hulk tattoo. For sure.

28:05Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Yeah. That was when he could justify it. After all his gym sessions.

28:11Matt Roberts:The premature Hulk tattoo. So the Berg's match precipitated or preceded the Hulk tattoo and the Hulk tattoo preceded the loss to Jack Pennington Jones. That's the sequence of events. Yeah, exactly.

28:28Catherine Whitaker:with some watery shits in there as well.

28:34Matt Roberts:It's a real rollercoaster being a Kabbali guy. But yeah, sorry, I interrupted you. He's looking like one of those weeks that you've got to savour as a Kabbali guy where he looks on it. And if it does end up being Zverev Kabbali in the semis, you know, Zverev's favourite for that. But on the basis of what I've seen so far from Kabbali, I would be interested in that much.

28:59Catherine Whitaker:and when I watch, you know, Munich at the start of the week and it's so cold and damp and everyone's wrapped up and then you go to Barcelona and it looks pretty glorious. I'm thinking, why, you know, why as a player would you go to Munich over Barcelona? But then I did see last night that Caballi and Shelton went to the Bayern Munich-Real Madrid game together and saw an absolute classic in the Champions League. So I feel like that's probably justified the decision.

29:30Matt Roberts:You see, Alcaraz went to the Rosalia concert. Yeah. I loved that. I've been trying to get tickets to see her at the O2. Anyway, I'm sure Alcaraz had the same ticket master woes that I'm constantly facing. Bottom half of the draw Denis Shapovalov against Alex I'm having a Rublev moment again Alex Molchan the winner of that to face the winner of Joel Fonseca against Ben Shelton that's the matchup that's jumping out of the quarterfinals for sure right

30:11Catherine Whitaker:And it's jumping out to Shelton I enjoyed his interview where he was like yeah we're both entertainers. I think that's going to be a fun one. He was excited to play him, I think. And another interesting match for Fonseca. We've said it, you know, he keeps running into big names at the moment, which I think is a sign that he's playing well, right? He's not losing to people that he, you know, should be beating. And he's, okay, he's lost these matches that he's played against Alcarez and Sino and Zverev. I do think Shelton on clay is probably his best chance yet to score one of those big wins.

30:52Matt Roberts:I watched a bit of him against Rinderkinesh. Obviously, he played Rinderkinesh in Monte Carlo, and I think that helped. But he looked really comfortable to me against Rinderkinesh. I was pretty convinced by him. He was getting a lot of cold conditions. He was still getting a lot of work on the ball. You know, like his shots, I mean, obviously the forehand, but still just penetrating so much and the kick. I mean, Rinder Kinesh is tall, like really tall and gangly. And he was still able to get his spins rearing up on Rinder Kinesh. So I'm really, really pumped for Fonseca against Ben Shelton. I feel like we should touch upon the first round loss for Stefanos Tsitsipas, loss to Fabian Marajan, 3-6, 7-6, 6-4.

31:53Matt Roberts:In the live rankings now, Matt, Stefanos Tsitsipas, who, as we covered on our Tennis Relived show for friends yesterday, was one match away from world number one in 2023, three years ago. He is now down to 78 in the live rankings. He's below Marco Trunjaliti. It's a really sad state of affairs currently for Sitsapass and it doesn't feel like this is the kind of hitting rock bottom before the inevitable rise back to somewhere near the top. Well, that's certainly not how it feels to me. No, to me, neither.

32:42Catherine Whitaker:You know, he lost to Surundalo in his first match in Monte Carlo and match point was a swing and a miss on the backhand return, air shot. And against Marajan, match point was a backhand shank out. And you just feel like these are kind of symbolic points in the big six-pass picture of decline, unfortunately, and lack of improvement in some key areas just in his game. And then you see the box in Monte Carlo, and his dad's there talking nonstop. His mum's there talking nonstop. Patrick Mortoglu's there talking nonstop. like how on earth are you meant to sort of concentrate and build a build a sustainable career with all of that going on and i think in past seasons there have been little moments where i've believed that maybe you know the good tennis is still in there and and he could piece it together often it's been monte carlo or you know it was dubai last year and And the experimentation with the new racket, that felt like, OK, he's trying something and maybe that can lead to something.

33:59Catherine Whitaker:But right now we just seem to be and he seems to be in a really tough spot of it not getting better, it getting worse. And because of where his ranking is, getting tough draws, you know, like Surundalo and Marajan in your first matches in tournaments is tough. They're not the worst losses in the world. But like if you're ranked there, it could be even tougher.

34:21Matt Roberts:I feel like he could get Carlos Alcaraz round one at Roland Garros. That's where, yeah.

34:27Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, it's brutal. It is.

34:31Matt Roberts:Yeah, yeah. Tough scene for Stefano Sitzapas just at the moment. Okay, that is it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the women. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. let's head to Stuttgart and the WTA 500 there, which is in so many ways such a great event. I know the players love it. I think it consistently gets voted like the best WTA 500. I know from friends of mine that work for the WTA, players love this event and it looks great on the TV, even as a hater of indoor clay and indoor tennis in general. they make a great show of it they get great crowds it's brilliant and yet also it was like 6pm on Thursday before Coco Goff played her first match people had played two matches before Coco Goff had even taken to the court for the first time like I could think of this event as one where the weekend is brilliant like Friday, Saturday, Sunday I'm expecting to be great.

35:44Matt Roberts:But I do find the first few days of this tournament really bizarre, quite frankly.

35:53Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, and it's buys, Catherine. It comes from the buys. You've got a 32 draw and you give four players buys. So they only have to win one match, as Coco Goff has done, and they're in the quarterfinals.

36:06Matt Roberts:I just don't understand. And I'm quite sure there is a big reason for that that I'm missing. And please, please let me know, you know, answers on a postcard. But I don't see how that's good for the players. OK, it's some guaranteed ranking points. You have the safety net of...

36:25Catherine Whitaker:Guaranteed money of getting through a certain round.

36:28Matt Roberts:Guaranteed round two ranking points and money. But, you know, for a player ranked 50 in the world, that's a massive deal.

36:35Catherine Whitaker:for Coco Goff and Iger Svjontek.

36:38Matt Roberts:Like, that shouldn't be that big a lure for playing an event. And, like, for the event, it's... They should be desperate to get these top names that I'm assuming they're paying an appearance fee to because it's a 500 and it's non-mandatory to not get them playing for the first few days of the tournament. You want them playing, you want them on the schedule as much as possible for ticket buyers and for sponsors. I know there's something I'm missing. There must be a reason why it is this way, but I just can't see how it works for anybody. No, me neither.

37:24Catherine Whitaker:I can't imagine a world where all those players are saying, oh well I'm not going to go to Stuttgart then if I have to play in the first round the next match I can't imagine it's the bye that is that is the reason they're going right right and and

37:40Matt Roberts:it's also not then it's not that they get to arrive it's not that it's not like oh I get to spend some extra time at home I can arrive on Wednesday they were all there at the weekend for media day like media day and you know all the sponsor jazz that they do before the tournament that's a big part of their jobs and particularly at tournaments where they're getting paid appearance fee that's a big part of what they're being paid for they will all have had to be there at the weekend and then had to kick their heels for four days yeah it's weird but anyway we have finally now seen every player in in the draw in Stuttgart well done Stuttgart and our quarterfinals are pretty much set all but one.

38:25Matt Roberts:We have Elena Rabachner against either Elena Fernandes or Zeynep Sonmez. That match is just getting underway on the screen in front of me. The winner of that to face the winner of Igor Shontek against Mira Andreeva. Then in the bottom half we have Alina Svitolina against Linda Nozkova and Karolina Mukova against Coco Goff. It is a great quarterfinal lineup Matt

38:52Catherine Whitaker:yeah so good where should we start

38:58Matt Roberts:it's it's either Shontek Andreva or it's Mook of a goth isn't it those are the match wise those are the two that that jump out

39:07Catherine Whitaker:okay well I'll go I'll go Shontek Andreva then because Shontek was the player I was most excited to see this week having you know not seen her since Miami and a lot's changed in that time. You know, she's been rubbing shoulders with Rafa Nadal in that time and has changed head coach. Francisco Roig was in the box. Like just, I don't know. I just always find it exciting. It's like, can't I start the new season? Yes, in very sort of 2023 vibe on colours. I feel like they've kind of brought in more colour in their fits recently. But this was back to the sort of black and white. vibe yeah yeah um it was nice it was but you know and i thought she played well laura siegman's not probably she's not a lot of things matt she's not someone you would pick i don't think to play in your in your first match in a new era on a new surface um i think the serve still looks a bit ropey for Shiontek if I'm honest like and of course it does you can't just click your fingers

40:22Matt Roberts:and change that way not ropey in a yeah it's not like there's changes here and it's going to take a while to bed in it's going to get worse before it gets better it kind of looked like the same the same stuff for Shiontek on serve to my eye anyway yeah I think

40:38Catherine Whitaker:I think the action is a little different but not vastly and it's just sort

40:44Matt Roberts:of it's something with the elbow that's different yeah she's dropping the elbow a bit more it's just

40:49Catherine Whitaker:sitting there still a little bit the serve you know and looking ahead to a potential you know she's got a tough match against andreva but i think the real test would be if she does play rebach you know you know that's that is going to be fascinating but i thought she was good from the baseline um and she'd have probably been pleased to see andreva beat ostepenko to be quite honest because, yeah, Andreeva's been a tough matchup for her. She's one and two against Andreeva and has lost the last two, but she's 0 and 6 against Ostapenko and we know how that match goes and looks.

41:25Matt Roberts:Unusual for Ostapenko to lose knowing there was a likely Shontek in the next round because that's what she lives for.

41:33Catherine Whitaker:That's her entire personality. Yeah. Yeah. And she won the first set here, Ostapenko. It was a set where Andreeva was kind of the better player for most of it, but Ostopenko just caught fire at the end. And kind of like we were talking about for Andreeva and Linz, just good composure that she showed to get the second set. And then she was down in the third set, Andreeva, but still managed to come through. And she credited the title and the matches that she had in Linz for building the confidence and feeling like she could still come back against Ostopenko. So those were really good vibes. Ostapenko, by the way, takes a big points hit there, having won Stuttgart last year.

42:17Catherine Whitaker:She's now, I think, 40 in the live rankings. Could well be unseeded at Roland Garros. I mean, imagine how quickly I'll be walking to the orangery at Roland Garros with the potential for unseeded Ostapenko to come out in a fun section of the draw. Like, yes, please. but I think what's really interesting me about this is I was thinking I felt like it had been a long time since we've seen Andrava in a big matchup and I felt like whenever I've watched Andrava recently in my mind she's felt like the favourite in most matches she's played and okay she's played like an Mboko where it would be pretty tight or an Anissimova would be pretty tight but I was trying to think I don't feel like she's played one of the game's biggest players in a while.

43:08Catherine Whitaker:And I look back through her record. She has not played Goff, Pagula, Rabatkinna, Sabalenka or Sviontek since Rome last year when she lost to Goff. It has been such a long time for her to have, you know, almost a year. Been an underdog, basically. Exactly. Because those are the only players that she would be a definite underdog again.

43:34Matt Roberts:yeah yeah

43:36Catherine Whitaker:everyone else she's either the favourite or okay it's Mboko and there's some over Svitolina we've seen her play those sorts of players and I think she's a bit I don't know I just have a feeling she's a bit more dangerous in a matchup against Fiontech where just that pressure is off maybe slightly and the vibes were good today with Conchita Martinez she sang happy birthday for her as she does and she took took the mic yeah it's just it's just I can't relate but I enjoy it. Yeah, so really long time not seeing Andreeva in that sort of match and I'm excited to see it again and a good look at Chiantic as well.

44:18Catherine Whitaker:So yeah, can't wait for that one.

44:22Matt Roberts:Rabakina indoors, looking good, shocker.

44:27Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, just almost got tricky against Schneider. She was like, I think she was 3, 4, 15, 30 down and just comes up with big plays when she needs them. Slams the door and then break. You know, like that kind of thing from Rebecca. It's what she's been doing all year. It's so impressive and sort of undeniable right now. And yeah, I think she'd definitely be the favourite against Fernandes or Sommez, whoever she faces. So I think very likely that she's in the semis here.

45:03Matt Roberts:Speaking of Sommers, by the way, who's currently 4-1 in the first set against Leila Fernandes, as we record in her opening. No, well, her second match, Paolini's first match, Sommers beat Jasmine Paolini 6-2. 6-2, a very, very tough watch from a Jasmine Paolini perspective. somebody who we like rely on for vibes like if we're having a tough day at a grand slam we're like oh let's go and watch a bit of jasmine paulini you know she'll she'll cheer us up and maybe that kind of pressure of being that person maybe that's too much for anyone you know remember when onstribur pitched herself as the minister of happiness like that's a lot to put on your shoulders because even the happy people have tough times.

46:02Matt Roberts:But seeing Jasmine Paolini in tears on a tennis court was a very affronting, difficult thing to process seeing that. I'm very worried about her on all the levels, on tennis level, because it is not not happening at all, but obviously on a human level as well. And it feels very spirally right now.

46:37Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, it's really tough for her. I think she's nine and eight for the year, I think. You know, sort of, yeah, basically winning a match, losing a match. And that is not the record that she's had in the last couple of seasons. and I think the clay she would probably still say is her best surface and favourite time of year and when you're coming into that period off the back of such tough form and probably a lot of self-doubt and questioning and it's just not happening and yeah, brutal, brutal seeing her in tears. I think it was the start of the second set, wasn't it? Against Sommez, just yeah, really tough right now for Paulini.

47:21Matt Roberts:yeah we'll we'll watch closely obviously she's got she's you know Madrid first but she's going to be defending title points in Rome in front of her home crowd I mean maybe that's exactly what she needs the uplift of the Rome crowd but also I'm I'm worried I'm worried about Jasmine Paolini I feel like we should just touch upon Coco Goff Matt she's got Carolina Moukovo in her quarterfinal. Just watched her win against Ludmilla Samsonova. Very tight first set, 7-5, but came through 6-1 in the second. She didn't look happy with that second set. I mean, Samsonova was really poor, I thought, in that second set.

48:06Matt Roberts:Koko Goff looked, I mean, look, this is her first match, isn't it? And she's had to wait till Thursday evening to play it. Maybe, I do think that's pretty tricky. But she looked to me not thrilled with how she'd played in that match. Some lack of confidence on the forehand, I thought. But, you know, Samsonova's tricky.

48:37Catherine Whitaker:She is. I mean, I looked at this matchup and thought Goff will win that easily because I just see Samsonova as kind of one-dimensional. The only way I thought Samsonova could win is if she just went for everything and everything went in, but that happens, you know, rarely. I thought with Goff's movement, she'd be able to extend rallies and break her down. I think that's absolutely what ended up happening. She got off to a rough start, Goff, three love down, double break. She looked rusty. But I actually thought she played really well. I thought she was good here, Goff. I thought in that second set in particular, I don't have the numbers to hand, but I would be very surprised if she wasn't extremely positive on the winners to unforced errors.

49:22Catherine Whitaker:I thought she was soaking up Samsonova's power well, some nice drop shots.

49:27Matt Roberts:I agree, but don't you think she looked not thrilled with it? I didn't think she looked, you know, upset or anything. I thought she was just sort of, you know.

49:45Catherine Whitaker:I think for her, it's not a big deal, really, is it? Beating Sam Zoniver in the first match of a tournament. Like, she's got bigger fish to fry, I suppose. She served pretty well. A few aces. She did, yeah. I think, and 70 % first serves in, only a few double faults, not many.

50:06Matt Roberts:The holding my breath test on the serve. I wasn't clenched.

50:10Catherine Whitaker:No. And she loves playing Mukova.

50:17Matt Roberts:Yeah, it's tough that Mukova does have these match-up issues against a few of the, you know, obviously Shontek, the most glaring one. She just doesn't get anywhere near Shontek. But similarly, Coco Gough.

50:29Catherine Whitaker:She doesn't get near Gough.

50:30Matt Roberts:6-0

50:34Catherine Whitaker:I think Goff's ability to, in fact it's one of those matchups where Goff's forehand comes into its own, or it has done in the past her ability there to just loop the forehand up the line to the Mukava backhand seems to negate a lot of what Mukava wants to do with the ball on the backhand side because she's either take it early and come in off it or sort of slice with it she can't really do either of those things all that easily against Goff. And Goff's movement, I think, negates a lot of Mukova's attack. Yeah, she's just played really well in that matchup before. But Mukova played a very odd match today against Mertens, where she was 6-1, 2-love down and kind of heading out of the tournament.

51:21Catherine Whitaker:And then her forehand just absolutely caught fire, Mukova. And she was coming up with outrageous shots and angles. Mertens' serve sort of fell apart on her. It was a very strange match. I think Muka ended up winning 12 of the last 13 games in this one. But given the head-to-heads, as strongly as Muka finished against Mertens, given the head-to-head, I think you would have to favour Goff in this match-up. She's just proved it time and time again.

51:53Matt Roberts:Sitalina Nozkova?

51:55Catherine Whitaker:Another good one.

51:56Matt Roberts:Mook of a Goff to face Svitolina and Oskova. Yeah, it's good stuff, isn't it? 2026 Svitolina match. She's no joke.

52:03Catherine Whitaker:No joke. Yeah. I feel a little bit hard to gauge the levels here for these two because they both had such blowouts. Like, Lise did well to come back and beat Bedossa. She was down in that match. She just started swinging and managed to win. But she's come back from injury, Lise. It's been a tough period. And then Svitolina just blew her off the court. But then Noskova blew Alexandra off the court, who has not had a good season so far. Alexandra, after kind of a career best season last year, she seems to have slumped a little bit.

52:42Matt Roberts:Matt, it's a great time for people that had her in their fantasy team last season and dropped her like a hot potato in 2026. Things are working out just great.

52:53Catherine Whitaker:so maybe Svitolina and Noskova are both playing incredibly well or maybe they both played opponents who didn't really put up all that much resistance I'm not quite sure how to read those scorelines but I think Noskova and Svitolina I feel like Svitolina's been sort of a top 5-ish player this year and Noskova's been a top 10-ish player this year do you know what I mean? like they're both having good seasons

53:20Matt Roberts:but it also feels like Noskova if she hits it She does have the ability to hit.

53:25Catherine Whitaker:She's got more firepower.

53:26Matt Roberts:Svitolina off the court, yeah. Okay, well, look, shaping up to be a, having slagged off the early few days, I am absolutely seated for the final few days in Stuttgart. Incidentally, just on Stuttgart, props to the negotiating team at the WTA that got the Mercedes, that figured out the Mercedes Porsche situation because obviously Mercedes have come in this year as this headline sponsor of the WTA, multi-year massive deal that by all accounts is a total game changer for the WTA and their status in the sport and negotiating positions on loads of different fronts. Like it's a huge deal. And obviously, you know, Mercedes getting a lot in return for this at every other event on tour, branding everywhere.

54:32Matt Roberts:Obviously, it's a massive conflict, Mercedes and Porsche. and there is not a trace of Mercedes anywhere at the Stuttgart event, at the Porsche Open. And someone somewhere or a team of someone somewhere has negotiated that carve-out in the Mercedes deal and I can imagine that was incredibly tricky and that's good going, I would say. I hope that, yeah, I hope that that's a stable situation because obviously Porsche had been a big backer of women's tennis and this particular event long term. And I can imagine they were really pissed off at Mercedes being the ones to come in with the big bucks. But look, they seem to have found a way to make it work and long may that continue.

55:30Matt Roberts:I feel like there was an event

55:32Catherine Whitaker:earlier this season as well where Mercedes was missing

55:37Matt Roberts:where there was a big existing car sponsor I think it might have been

55:40Catherine Whitaker:Indian Wells with BMW and I think as you said they've obviously done well there there's a couple of big events and they've done well to still get the deal through and hopefully not not piss off too many people yeah like impressive

56:00Matt Roberts:Yeah, absolutely. OK, Rouen, the last event to cover from this week, the quarterfinal line-up almost set there. We have the top seed, Marta Kostiuk, into the quarterfinals. She faces, who could have seen this coming, Anne Lee. Anne Lee in the quarterfinals. Matt, how are you feeling about that?

56:26Catherine Whitaker:I'll be honest, I did not expect to still be alive on Thursday's pod. I think she went set down.

56:36Matt Roberts:I think you're avoiding humiliation. Absolutely. I think I've totally avoided humiliation. You've avoided humiliation. Yeah, we've made it to this pod. This is not a Kizmova situation.

56:45Catherine Whitaker:No, she's halfway there. Like, you know, she was a set down, I think, to Kasikina before I'd even published the show on Monday. But, yeah, a couple of three-set wins. I do think the fact is indoors in Rouen. Probably does help Anne-Lee. Yeah. Yeah. In my mind, she was kind of, you know, she was my pick, but she was also representative of an unexpected finalist.

57:12Matt Roberts:Didn't you predict that she would play Kostiuk in the final?

57:17Catherine Whitaker:No, Kosteja.

57:18Matt Roberts:Kosteja, OK. Of course you had looked at the draw. Right, OK. So you effectively predicted the big Anne Lee to upset top seed Marta Kostyuk results that we may or may not see tomorrow. OK.

57:32Catherine Whitaker:I didn't want to pick the top players at everything. And I thought Rouen felt to me like it could be the week of an unexpected. Why not Anne Lee? And she's won a couple of matches.

57:44Matt Roberts:Why not Anne Lee? We might find out the answer to that question tomorrow. Winner of Kostiuk and lead face the winner of Irina Shajmanovic and Tatiana Maria. Then in the bottom half of the draw, we have Veronica, Ukrainian player that frankly, I know very little about. Veronica Podrez and Katie Bolter. That's a quarterfinal winner of that to face the winner of Saronica Steyer against the winner of the match currently on court between Oleksandra Olenikova and Anna Bondar. Well, Bondar is currently a breakup in the deciding set of that one. So as you might have guessed, it was Olenikova to win the much anticipated first round match between Olenikova and Lily Tagga, which I'm guessing you watched, Matt.

58:35Catherine Whitaker:No, I missed it because we were recording Tennis Where We Lived. Kind of everything with the scheduling gods.

58:44Matt Roberts:Too many pods. OK, that is it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about a bit of news. Amelie Maresmo has been holding a press conference in Paris and there's some big movement on the Saudi Arabian sport front. OK, welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we have some potentially quite significant bits of news to cover that have broken in the past few days, starting with some reporting in The Athletic that is part of a wider picture of news that has been coming from Saudi Arabia in the past few days, most notably in the golfing world and reports that live the breakaway Saudi Arabian backed rival tour to the PGA.

59:35Matt Roberts:reports that live is essentially heading for dissolution and that the Saudi Public Investment Fund that has become so heavily enmeshed in various different sports over the past few years is backing away from golf and potentially backing away from sport in general. In terms of tennis, the reporting from Matt Futterman and new to the Athletic Ava Wallace, brilliant reporter formerly of the Washington Post, new to the Athletic's tennis team. She and Matt have reported that the WTA is definitely not going to be extending its deal to host the WTA finals in Riyadh beyond the existing deal which ends after this year.

1:00:30Matt Roberts:Portia Archer, the chairman of the WTA, had been clear only a few months ago that the WTA had wanted to extend its current three-year deal to host the finals in Riyadh had the appetite been there from the Saudi public investment funds. But to quote the Athletics article, the WTA finals has outlived its usefulness to Saudi Arabia's wider tennis ambitions. the event costs 25 million dollars to stage this as reported in the article with license fees and prize money and obviously infrastructure costs and that money can now be recouped and I'm sure will come in handy given that they will they being the the public investment fund the the Saudi Arabian state essentially will be building a brand new complex to host the ATP Masters 1000 event that we know will be commencing in 2020, 2028.

1:01:33Matt Roberts:Or that is certainly the current plan for that ATP Masters 1000 event to be starting from from 2028. Also reported in this piece in the Athletic One WTA official has has told them that cities in the Americas are in contention to host the WTA finals from next year onwards. And national media in Poland and in the Czech Republic have reported that Gdansk, Ostrava and Prague are also all interested in hosting the finals.

1:02:09Matt Roberts:It's not a huge surprise to me, Matt.

1:02:17Matt Roberts:And depending on sort of how micro or macro you want to look at this, sport is a means to an end for the Saudi Arabian state. It's a sports washing tool. And tennis is a means to an end within that. And on the most granular level, the WTA is a means to an end beyond that. They've bought themselves some legitimacy. They've bought themselves two years of PR. of all of the world's top female tennis players coming to Saudi Arabia and saying, well, I've had a good experience. It seems to be great for women as far as I can tell. And they've bought themselves the exposure and legitimacy of being the hosts of the WTA finals, and that doesn't...

1:03:03Matt Roberts:And that will deliver very diminishing returns beyond the three year deal that they've already signed. So it doesn't surprise me at all that this is the case, but it is pretty depressing. I mean, sort of not depressing, like I'm thrilled that this tournament isn't going to be in Saudi Arabia beyond this year. But in another sense, very depressing.

1:03:29Catherine Whitaker:yeah i think um that feeling of the wta being kind of used as a bit of a pawn and as a means to an end for saudi arabia's bigger ambitions which was to to get a a piece of the atp map i think um you know i would say that the wta did get something out of saudi arabia you know it wasn't all one way you know i think that it was a pretty desperate financial situation that the wta were in and as you as as as depressing as it is that they turned to that money they needed they needed money at that time and they needed a host for this event so the wta did take something from it as well but mostly it felt like they were sort of being used in this in in this exchange i suppose um and i think the the thing that strikes me is those quotes in the in the piece from from matt and ava uh quoting a lot of the players talking about this in charleston and in particular pagula talking about how she feels that wta finals is so inferior over the last few years to the atp finals from a marketing perspective and from a feel perspective and that is absolutely how it come across and you know i don't i absolutely don't think that the wta took the finals to saudi arabia with the intention of trying to reach new people and um you know build the sport in that area that was one of the things they would talk about as a sort of side benefit of being there but i just don't think a big event the flagship event of the tour should be taken to a place without a already established level of support and fandom.

1:05:29Catherine Whitaker:And that is what the ATP has hit on in the last couple of decades, really, with London and now with Italy. Like, they've been able to send the event to these places where they knew that there would already be fans and then grow it from there. And they've turned into these giant events. the ATP finals is a big event on the tour. It's not necessarily my favourite event, but there's absolutely no doubt about it that it's a popular event with tennis fans and it feels glamorous and there's a real prestige to it. The WTA finals has felt like such a poor relation in the last few years with uncertainty about where it can be and then, okay, it's been hosted, but it's been hosted in a venue of about 3 ,000, three and a half thousand compared to a 20 ,000 seat a venue for the ATP finals and personally I am encouraged by this list of potential hosts of the WTA final but I have to say particularly the ones in Poland and and Czechia are the ones that are really jumping out to me I think that I think those would be fantastic venues to host the WTA finals it makes so much sense.

1:06:44Matt Roberts:From what I can

1:06:46Catherine Whitaker:bid like prague always up for it yeah they just didn't and i believe they were in last time around

1:06:52Matt Roberts:they just obviously weren't able to offer the the money that saudi arabia were offering and i don't you know i'm not so naive as to you know wish for a world where money simply weren't a factor like obviously it's great that the the prize purse was so big in uh saudi arabia and you know matched and I think exceeded the, you know, the equivalent, the equivalent tournament for the men like that is a desirable outcome. I don't believe the means by which that were achieved were justifiable. And I believe that the cost is far too high. And in the end, you know, I believe that the net outcome in terms of equality and gains for women and women's sport were negative.

1:07:44Matt Roberts:very negative on this front but you know I'm not that's not nothing um but like the appetite is always there from Prague they're always there and up for and committed to women's tennis and maybe now with the with the Mercedes deal in place and the situation looking that bit desperate as I say like their position at these negotiating tables I think Mercedes has changed that and I just hope that it changes it to the extent that one of these one of these countries that has always been there showing up for women's tennis and that has the has the appetite for it I hope that's I hope that's where we end up

1:08:30Catherine Whitaker:so yeah I think the piece from Matt and Ava said that a decision is expected in the summer and this is obviously for 2027 onwards isn't it that we've got one more year uh in saudi arabia but yeah this is for for 2027 onwards and yeah but as you said it does it from an atp perspective it does this you know piff potentially rolling out of sports does really make you the make you question the decision to sort of go all in on a Masters there. And it's not like they're doing that without losing anything. You know, they're sort of killing off and buying off a load of traditional established events in the calendar.

1:09:19Catherine Whitaker:And if they do that, and then...

1:09:22Matt Roberts:They're kind of trying to kill off a whole swing.

1:09:24Catherine Whitaker:Right. If they do that, and then a couple of years into it, suddenly the money's not there anymore. Like, you've done some damage.

1:09:32Matt Roberts:I mean, look, there's two years before that event is supposed to be held. And, you know, from all the reporting I've read of this, you know, this Saudi situation with other sports, PIF are selling Al-Halal, the sort of flagship football soccer team that has been established in the Saudi Arabian League. You know, so much money has been poured into that over the past few years. this golf situation. It sounds, you know, look, as I say, sport was always a means to an end for Saudi Arabia and for PIF, but it sounds like the kind of acceleration towards that end, like it's foot to the floor. And I'm sure the geopolitical situation in the region is a massive part of that.

1:10:25Matt Roberts:But I imagine there are some squeaky bums on seats at the ATP right now, I would have thought. And we'll keep an eye on all of it and bring you news as we have it. We had an Amelie Maresmo press conference today, Matt. Don't we love those? What could possibly make an Amelie Maresmo press conference worse? The answer, folks, is Microsoft Teams.

1:11:02Catherine Whitaker:yeah mind you it was one of her better ones i would say

1:11:10Matt Roberts:talk us through it why was this one of the least uh offensive amelie morales very press conferences you've you've attended albeit virtually

1:11:22Catherine Whitaker:well she didn't trash women's tennis so that was that was a that was a great start it wasn't about that to be honest you know it was she was asked by Charlie Acoucher of The Athletic about whether the scheduling will be the same this year at Roland Garros on Chattray for the night session and the first match of the day and well she just didn't go there she said nothing's set in stone it's going to depend on the draws

1:11:50Matt Roberts:on the attractivity of the matches yeah

1:11:56Catherine Whitaker:it was a classic you know a month or so out let's announce everything new and fun and good that we're doing this year at Roland Garros to make it you know the best edition yet and as far as I'm concerned it's going to be a lot of ceremonies Catherine there's a lot of announcement of ceremonies Guillaume Monfils is getting one of course he's also getting his own night before the event starts in opening week there's going to be a Gael and Friends yeah for charity look I'm all for that that sounds great absolutely

1:12:30Matt Roberts:it's not for me but people will love it and it's not hurting anyone in fact it's great I will totally ignore it I will try to pretend it's not existing but like kids day

1:12:41Catherine Whitaker:I support it existing

1:12:43Matt Roberts:don't want to know anything about it it will make my teeth itch

1:12:48Catherine Whitaker:Caroline Garcia is getting a ceremony in between the women's semifinals. It's going to be a celebration of her career. And then the little thing that they...

1:13:00Matt Roberts:Again, I support that in principle, but I know what's going to happen, Matt. I'm going to be sitting there. The first semifinal will go really long. It's going to be faff-friggin-tastic, isn't it? I know I'll be annoyed while it's happening.

1:13:15Catherine Whitaker:And the little thing they snuck in there is that Stan Wawrinka is going to be getting a ceremony, which obviously means he's going to be getting a wild card because, yeah, because it said a ceremony after his last match. You know, it wasn't just one that they were just going to do. I mean, can you imagine not giving him a wild card and then giving him a ceremony? No, they're not going to do that. They're going to give him a wild card.

1:13:37Matt Roberts:Do you know? If anywhere was going to do that, Roland Garros. They did that shit ceremony for Dominic Thiem in qualies. Remember that? And he lost in qualies. having not given him a main draw I mean I suppose that's true they didn't specify it would be a

1:13:55Catherine Whitaker:they didn't specify it would be a main draw match for Wawrinka I suppose no they have no he's getting a wild card he has to

1:14:06Matt Roberts:I feel 90 % sure he is

1:14:09Catherine Whitaker:and he's a former champion but there's still that 10 % that says team isn't of course yeah I still think team should have got one but it is different still with Stan. What else? A fine dining area, a chef's garden by Court Simone Mathieu.

1:14:26Matt Roberts:So I was struggling to be let into this Microsoft Teams meeting. So I was texting Matt saying, what am I missing? What's going on? What's the news? And every reply of Matt was about fine dining. Yeah.

1:14:43Catherine Whitaker:There's just, there's just, there was a slide on with just a load of chefs and they're apparently all going to have stations or something by Port Simone Mathieu it sounds nice I think great

1:14:54Matt Roberts:yeah good I like food great prize money

1:14:57Catherine Whitaker:is up 9.5 percent and I think probably probably the most interesting thing was the fact that they're going to be allowing certain wearable devices on court and they're going to not have cameras backstage they're going to respect the players privacy of course that's interesting because it's a direct response to two of the big talking points from the Australian Open where wearables were not allowed and cameras were everywhere and the Rangar is taking a different approach and I believe it was also said that the holistic approach always I believe it was said that the other Grand Slams as well will be allowing certain wearables.

1:15:45Catherine Whitaker:So it sounds like the other slams are aligned on this and Australian Open has been a little bit of an outlier this year.

1:15:52Matt Roberts:I think it's for commercial reasons, isn't it, right?

1:15:54Catherine Whitaker:Yeah.

1:15:55Matt Roberts:Because I think they're hoping to sign a wearable tech sponsor. It's my read on the situation. I mean, it's always money, isn't it? That's not a big take to say. I think it's because of money.

1:16:10Catherine Whitaker:it's always money anyway and then there was one last question uh where craig tiley's uh comments about women potentially playing toss five sets were put to amelie maresmo and this was where i was braced i was thinking oh god like it's been it's been a fine press conference please don't Please don't ruin it with a PR catastrophe. And she didn't. I think she spoke quite sensibly about the subject, saying you don't think you can change that format overnight and go from best of three to best of five. It's not overnight, though, is it?

1:16:51Matt Roberts:Because she first mentioned that to me four years ago.

1:16:57Matt Roberts:So three years ago, four years ago. yeah I suppose many years ago like you know yeah um but I suppose it hasn't really you know that

1:17:07Catherine Whitaker:was so out of the blue wasn't it like no one was really no one else was really it wasn't on the

1:17:10Matt Roberts:table really so was then moving to October like if you want to do stuff you can do stuff yes I learned I learned that from Roland Garros Matt in 2020

1:17:24Catherine Whitaker:I mean I think it would be madness to just suddenly say oh women are playing best of five at my tournament and at no other tournaments because they're not training for any of that sort of thing I think you're going to do it

1:17:38Matt Roberts:you've got to do it properly and sensibly I agree I'm not saying I want that I'm saying I think that this nothing is set in stone yeah I think this I just I think it's I think I think nothing is going to happen I agree I don't believe these conversations are really happening behind the scenes I think Emily Moresmo wants to look like she is an advocate for women's tennis in some way and for some sort of progression on the women's tennis front I think she knows just enough to know that she's she's done some damage and she doesn't want that to be her legacy in women's tennis. I think it is going to be her legacy.

1:18:28Matt Roberts:So I think she wants to sort of kind of have it both ways. You know pay some lip service to wanting potentially wanting this potentially cool thing. Not everybody would see it that way. I just don't believe anything's happening or ever will happen. the thing is there was there was definitely there was definitely a version of her answer that i

1:18:52Catherine Whitaker:think she might have given in the last few years where she's oh no women can't play best of five

1:18:55Matt Roberts:that sort of thing you know i think there's god that's the bar is it that's the i mean don't you like weren't you braced for that sort of answer from from i mean she's she's said i think i actually think i wasn't on this one because of at her at the absolute lowest amelie mares moeb which was that whether it was three years ago or four years ago I can't remember when she'd given the the attractivity press conference and we had talked about it and then she'd invited me in for the the weird damage limitation meeting because she was she was talking about women playing best of five then actually don't I don't think I was braced on this one I think that's her sort of um it's her shield throwing the the oh but i i believe i believe women are physically capable of playing best of five you know right and she sort of cited her own career saying that she just missed out on the little period where they were um playing best of five at the at the

1:20:02Catherine Whitaker:end of year masters and she said she said she wanted to she said she wanted to to taste those

1:20:07Matt Roberts:sensations she you know she sort of knew just like i'm sure you know might want to taste the night session they might want to taste the night sessions i mean they probably don't because the night sessions are shit but you know if if you're pitching them is this great experience maybe the current players would like to taste those sensations um in god it's april and we're

1:20:29Catherine Whitaker:already worked up by amelie maresmo we are losing this

1:20:35Matt Roberts:she is winning i know i'm getting it out of the way now i'm getting it out of the way now i'm not not i'm not gonna let it derail the french open um in in in extraordinarily unironic news uh not announced in the press conference so that she she did this press conference and then a press pack was released, a hard copy press pack was released in conjunction with the press conference. And in the press pack headline, a new exhibition dedicated to women's tennis at the Tennesseum, which is the French Open's tennis museum. Throughout the tournament, the Tennesseum will host a new exhibition entitled Serving for Equality.

1:21:29Matt Roberts:which traces the sporting, social and cultural history of women's tennis from the 19th century to the present day. A focus, there'll also be a focus on wheelchair tennis, underlining the sports drive for inclusion there. The exhibition also highlights modern day challenges, media coverage, motherhood, gender-based and sexual violence, racism, etc. etc. It'll feature previously unseen objects and archives. The exhibition will run until the end of March 2027. And if Roland Garros would like to contact me or us for our submissions about tennis's journey towards equality and the role that Roland Garros has played in that, then I'm available.

1:22:18Matt Roberts:Right, final bits and bobs of news, sort of a random collection of things from the past few days. Five-time Grand Sam Doubles champion Jamie Murray has announced his retirement. Obviously, his career does deserve the fanfare of an announcement and the ending of it being acknowledged. I feel a bit unmoved by this because in my head, Jamie Murray was very much already retired. I literally commentated with him earlier this year. He's the tournament director of Queen's. He has like 12 other jobs that aren't being a professional tennis player. So, yeah, it's now official, folks. Andy Murray did a little video.

1:23:07Matt Roberts:We've already seen Jamie Murray at the driving range. The post-tennis golf content begins. I think it was the same driving range we went to a few weeks ago, Matt, that I've tried to erase that experience from my mind because I was so bad. But yeah, maybe we'll see Jamie Murray on a driving range one day soon.

1:23:35Catherine Whitaker:And I heard him talking on Five Live about how it became clear to him last year that he knew he wanted to retire when he was a bit ill and he couldn't play and he had some time off and he just realised that he did not miss it at all. He talked about how in the last few years of his career he had quite a lot of anxiety on court related to his serve and actually the sport hadn't been all that enjoyable for him in the last couple of years. So I think it may have been a little bit of a relief for him to sort of come to this decision and step away. As you said, he's already, you know, he's already sort of doing other things.

1:24:15Catherine Whitaker:But yeah, like I think a pretty significant man in British tennis, not only as Andy Murray's brother, but also the first British man to reach number one in doubles and, you know, that partnership.

1:24:28Matt Roberts:It's funny that that feels so like sort of now we're like, oh, right, another British man's reached number one in doubles, have they? Well, quite. He's sort of... It's just a conveyor belt, but he...

1:24:38Catherine Whitaker:He sort of ushered in that era, really. Absolutely. Yeah, you know, the role of...

1:24:43Matt Roberts:He and Louis Caim.

1:24:43Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, they sort of roll off the tongue, the British doubles players since then. there's just been so many um but yeah um and and that and that partnership with bruno suarish was always you know a fun one and when we were working at queens they were always good for you know social media content and and all that kind of stuff it was fascinating how they made

1:25:07Matt Roberts:that work so i don't think it was that they didn't get on i think they got on but they weren't best mates you know they were very different people um but yeah it it worked they

1:25:22Catherine Whitaker:yeah they were a vibe and and there was a nice note from uh david saying people tend to think of the first time andy murray publicly showing emotion was after the 2010 australian open final but the first time i saw it david said was when jamie played his 2007 mixed doubles final at Wimbledon alongside Yankovic and Andy joined the BBC Radio 5 live team in the commentary box he was so nervous and tight and emotional when Jamie won and then there was that image of him leaving the box to catch Jamie's eye and he was seen arms aloft with a huge smile on his face it's a nice anecdote from David there and it was always interesting how they couldn't do it at the Olympics, they had some really early losses together at the Olympics, didn't they?

1:26:09Catherine Whitaker:But of course, their doubles partnership, the Murray brothers, was absolutely crucial in helping Britain win the Davis Cup. And OK, Murray was, Andy Murray was the main figure in that team. But that partnership was big and Jamie more than played his part in it.

1:26:28Matt Roberts:Roberto Bautista-Agui today announced, not quite his retirement yet, but that 2026 would be his final year on tour. Didn't quite get in there in time for Amelie Muresmo to add him to her list of ceremonies. I'm sure he'll get a ceremony somewhere. He's worthy of a ceremony.

1:26:50Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, I'll say.

1:26:51Matt Roberts:Where will Roberto Batista Agu get a ceremony, Matt?

1:26:59Catherine Whitaker:Madrid, maybe. I think in Spain would make sense and honestly like that okay it wasn't that tournament but it was that venue the Magic Box that hosted the 2019 Davis Cup finals honestly one of the most extraordinary things I've ever been at which was his father died mid-tournament he went back home and then came back to be part of the Spanish Davis Cup team and won his match in the final against Auger Aliasim, I think it was, and set Spain on their way to victory. And he was incredibly emotional. The whole stadium was, everyone knew what he'd been through that week. It was quite extraordinary, really.

1:27:44Catherine Whitaker:And I always think of that 2019 season as his best season. It would be a fitting place. Wimbledon semi-finalist, Roberto Batista-Agu. I mean, look, Queen's last year, he played some incredible tennis. And he was interesting because his worst surface was clay, even though he was Spanish. He was a flatheader of the ball, liked the quickest surfaces. Beat Djokovic a couple of times, I seem to remember. Yeah, really good, solid pro. Good guy, I think. Bautista were good.

1:28:16Matt Roberts:Yeah, always went through that period of wearing the rainbow laces, didn't he?

1:28:21Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:24Matt Roberts:Last bit of random bits and bobs of tennis news. the Rafael Nadal documentary has been announced. We knew it was coming. The trailer is out. It will debut on Netflix on the 29th of May. From a scale of the Naomi Osaka documentary on Netflix, I'm calling that a zero to, I don't know, what's a 10 on the tennis documentary front? Some sort of mythical 10 where there's an actually interesting tennis documentary where are you on the excitement scale here Matt?

1:29:02Catherine Whitaker:Oh right down the middle

1:29:08Matt Roberts:I don't think we'll learn anything new will we but it will be a nice we'll get to relive some nice moments assuming they I'm interested to see how much how what rights they have to the match footage like that is expensive I mean I hope they've spent I hope they've forked out for all of the match footage that you need to properly tell the Nadal story but yeah be interesting

1:29:38Catherine Whitaker:yeah I mean dropping during Roland Garros makes sense it's just before his birthday isn't it you know everyone will be thinking about Nadal it's kind of Nadal time of year so you know I'm sure it'll be very popular with his fans but But I do think the one that, of course, Noah had, and this was something that I saw James Hansen tweet, the tennis editor at The Athletic, is that from the trailer, it very much looks like it's all about Nadal, the fighter and the gritty guy. and you don't want Nadal's tennis brain and the way he helped change the sport with his top spin to be erased from tennis history.

1:30:25Catherine Whitaker:I'm worried that the Nadal narrative gets narrow and it just becomes about him as this tremendous hard worker and gritty competitor, which he obviously was and is a standout feat to battle through injury and big rivals and all that sort of stuff. but let's not forget like what an incredible like actual like tactician and tennis player and all that was and that may well come out in the documentary it just doesn't come out in the trailer so that would be like the one note of caution I would have but yeah

1:30:58Matt Roberts:yeah like if you're expecting this documentary to tell a full and well-rounded yeah

1:31:07Catherine Whitaker:what's an all it's not a story

1:31:09Matt Roberts:of Raphael Nadal Yeah, it's not going to. So I'm going to try and limit my expectations. I expect to have a nice experience watching this. Me too. I love Rafael Nadal. I don't think he's an obvious choice for a documentary. I don't think he's not great at reflection. He was great in press conferences. I'm not saying he's a bad interviewee. He was the number one on the list of must-go-to press conferences. But in terms of self-reflection, the self-reflection that's required to be an interesting and revealing documentary subject, I personally would be surprised if Rafael Nadal proves to be

1:32:03Matt Roberts:particularly good on that front. But happy to be proven wrong. That's why we'll watch, yeah. I hope his being a hoot comes across. Comes across, yeah. I hope that Nadal that we got in press comments, particularly latterly in his career, I hope that we get that. Yeah. We will find out on May the 29th. Maybe we'll do a little screening at Tennis Podcast Towers Paris. Yeah. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. Yeah. Okay.

1:32:39Catherine Whitaker:Keeping Nadal at Roland Garros alive another year. Yeah.

1:32:43Matt Roberts:Yeah, absolutely.

1:32:44Catherine Whitaker:We can't do Roland Garros without Nadal.

1:32:48Matt Roberts:This has been a fun show. We'll be back on Monday with our next one to review all these tournaments that we've been talking about today and to look ahead to, well, Madrid. It'll be, won't it? Madrid that'll be getting underway. It's a two-week Masters. Middle of next week. So probably Tuesday for the women and Wednesday for the men. And then the players that you've actually heard of will start playing at the weekend. So, yeah, join us for that on Monday. We recorded a show yesterday for Friends of the Tennis Podcast, our latest edition of Tennis Relived on the history of the rankings. It was absolutely fascinating.

1:33:28Matt Roberts:My dad, Matt, has rated it a 10 out of 10. Oh, pleased to hear that. He loved it. So what more encouragement do you need, folks, to become a friend of the pod to get access to that show?

1:33:45Catherine Whitaker:And he would say if he didn't think it was a 10 out of 10.

1:33:47Matt Roberts:Oh, I had lunch with him yesterday, during which he gave me much feedback on other shows. But this one, no feedback. He enjoyed it very much. And we also have a live YouTube show next Wednesday. evening 8pm UK time for Friends of the Tennis Podcast so if you can't get enough of us then become a friend of the pod and get access to extra us, David included, he'll be back on Monday's show. The link to become a friend of course is in our show notes. Hello to our mascots Bodie, Maisie and Roger hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg Chris and Jeff shout outs and mascots will be back on Monday because we need David's tennis brain frankly for the shout outs for everything really we look forward to David's return on Monday we of course are part of the Athletic Podcast Network thank you for listening and we will speak to you on Monday