Indian Wells - Sincaraz, Sabatek finals incoming?

22:25Catherine Whitaker:once the tide has turned that's it it's turned i think it's also something to do with i don't know like the style Alcarez plays, I think opponents feel like they've got a chance against him because he doesn't sort of strangle you in a way that like a Djokovic at his peak would do or a Nadal at his peak, even Sinner, you know, like the sort of relentless hitting deep and putting you side to side. He ends up in a lot of fun rallies and shot making rallies and the opponents feel like they're pulling off great things. it's just Alcaraz with his foot speed and his hand skills he's going to get there and do something that no one else can do to it so I don't know there's something in that I think that Alcaraz is right there in terms of people are sort of peaking against them but I don't know I think it's to his benefit because I think that match against Rindeknes really sharpened him up and by the third set he was playing kind of how he started the rude match It was so good.

23:29Catherine Whitaker:And now he's just in that form and he can keep it going better than he used to be able to do in tournaments.

23:37Matt Roberts:So Alcaraz or Norrie to face the winner of Draper and Medvedev. That's the top half of the men's draw. Bottom half of the men's draw. We've got Artifis against Alexander Zverev, the winner of that, to face the winner. of Yannick Sinner against Lerner Tien, a match that I'm very excited about. We should probably talk about Sinner's victory over Joel Fonseca, 7-6, 7-6, an absolutely electrifying match. I know you both watched lots of this. Unfortunately, it was happening in the middle of the night, our time. I kept seeing the stat going round. and look, I take all of these player rating things with a little bit of a pinch of salt.

24:29Matt Roberts:But apparently, Joel Fonseca scored the highest player rating for a player that ended up losing the match that the player rating system has ever seen. Now, make of that what you will. Take all the salt you would like to take with that. but that stat is also reflective of what we saw in that match David which was an awesome Joel Fonseca that had to bring out the best in Yannick Sinner in order for Sinner to win it.

25:02David Law:Yeah it was really good this. I don't know how much we will end up reading into it down the line in terms of progression for Fonseca but it's the first time I've watched a full match of his for a while especially against a big a top player and and he struck me at the start of it a little bit like how Yannick Sinner struck me when we were in Indian Wells three years ago in person when which is when I started just referencing Sinner's height every 10 minutes and and here Fonseca stood at the net for the photo with Sinner and I looked at him and thought wow he's grown a bit you know He doesn't look like he did a year ago.

25:46He looks like a man.

25:49David Law:He looks like he's kind of just grown into his body. He's filled out a bit. He's taller. He's got coat hanger shoulders. He just looks like he's ready physically a bit more here to take on a guy who's suddenly not taller than him. Not much anyway, three centimetres between them. And the way he played, we touched on it the other day. He's got the combinations right now, the balance right between the all-out power but he but but there's there's there's a point behind it it's not just thrashing at the ball which I do think he got into doing a little bit when he was getting on the back foot in matches he would suddenly just be hitting out and and I thought well this isn't really going anywhere for you because you're missing too many well he got himself to mini break up in both tiebreak sets in to get into the tiebreak he's he's leading the first set tie break 6-3 and he didn't win the set you know that was a that there's there are some lessons in there for Fonseca I think about what guys like Sinner are able to do to just keep you keep you close and then take over and then he led the second set tie break as well and and that was good going I thought from from Fonseca because Sinner did actually hold serve for the match and Fonseca broke back to take it into that tie break and I thought real strides being shown by Fonseca here and yet Sinner with the answers it it felt like the balance of where these two are in their career and what the potential is for the future that scoreline 7-6-7-6 just kind of told you and and I think that this is a this is another good news match for both players.

27:31Matt Roberts:Is he playing with a bit more shape on the forehand, Matt Yannick Sinner, to your eye, in a kind of preparing for the clay court season kind of a way?

27:44Catherine Whitaker:yeah possibly I think I think that would be fair to say I think what struck me in this match was that you could see that Sinner is capable of being the absorber you know like so much of the time I think of Sinner is likely going to be the biggest hitter on the court off both wings because you know he's so good at that but actually Fonseca's got a ball speed that is higher than Sinner's I I mean, there was an extraordinary stat that flashed up on the coverage that Fonseca's average on the forehand is 11 miles per hour higher than the rest of the top 50 on the ATP tour. Well, certainly it was in that first set.

28:29Catherine Whitaker:He was averaging 90 miles an hour, which is 11 miles an hour more than the rest of the top 50. That's absurd. That is absolutely freakish. and yet what Sinner was able to do was absorb that pace I felt really well and that's that's where I think Sinner is still quite a bit ahead of Fonseca with his movement and his leg strength and the ability to move side to side and I think some of that probably does come out a little bit as more shape on the ball rather than just like slashing at it he also had his I'm gonna use the word again he was clutch against Sinner you know like that that was the defining feature of his match against Djokovic at the Australian Open, how that had gone.

29:09Catherine Whitaker:And I know the pressure's different playing in a Grand Sam semifinal against Djokovic. But in this one, even before he fell the three set points down in the tie break, he played a lovely half volley to not fall four set points down. And he brought his level up when Fonseca had those set points. So that was a really, really good signs from Sinner. And yet I did feel like it was a kind of, proof of concept match for Fonseca right like he does have the weapons and hitting the ball that hard with that control and adding in a bit of variety is going to hurt top players and Sinner had to be somewhere close to his best to be able to live with it and I always take Indian Wells a little bit of a pinch of salt anyway because of the conditions and I think particularly at night I think it was when it's deader and slower I think it was easier for Fonseca to control the ball you know like i've heard andy roddick talk about indian wells in the day and it's like a bouncy ball and the ball is just bouncing all over the place and i think at night it just allowed fonseca to control it a little bit more um but i was again as david said impressed with both like coming out of that match and just super fun to see them meet for the first time and now and now we have an image of what that matchup looks like and yeah it was it was great can tian can tian

30:37Matt Roberts:sinner be fun tian alejandro davidovich for kina was fun let me tell you that was another one i stuck on in the middle of the night and cost me a bit of sleep um yeah it was yeah fun fun is the best possible word to describe that certainly the latter stages of that match and went to a signing set tie break which which obviously should feel like absolute peak jeopardy in tennis and yet it felt like the opposite of that because by that point Alejandro Davidovich Fikina had had match points and Alejandro Davidovich Fikina unfortunately is becoming the losing from match point up guy I just I just had this very strong feeling in the pit of my stomach that this is going to be another one and lo and behold lo and behold it was um so tn sinner can that be fun i remember them playing

31:34Catherine Whitaker:towards the end of last year and it was quite one-sided for sinner but i did feel like a big difference was the serve right it's not it's not it's not a new point but i do think tn's got a different approach on the serve this year he's trying to get more out of it okay he's making some more double faults but he's trying to up his win percentage on first serve up his ace percentage and i do think that's the right play it's high risk it might not come off but i think it's the right play and i do remember thinking from the baseline tn tn can hang with pretty much everyone he's so good at redirecting the ball and what is interesting to me now i feel like the atp is having a real moment.

32:21Catherine Whitaker:Like, I feel like we really were a bit down on the state of the ATP last year, but actually Feast and Draper coming back, I'm going to talk more about Feast, but them coming back in the fold and being at this level so quickly has invigorated everything, I think. Plus, you've got TN, you've got Fonseca showing what he did. Mensic beat Sinner a couple of weeks ago and now TN gets a shot at him. Like, it just feels like there's a little bit of momentum behind the pack you know like three is still very much up for grabs but it's finally feeling like this guy's gunning for it rather than oh it's just going to be no at jokovic do you know what i mean like i just feel like in this last month or so there's been there's been a nice shift from some of the other guys on the atp tour and we might still end up with a cine alcaz final and that will be absolutely fine by me because we've had fun along the way and that's kind of that's kind know what I'm looking for in these tournaments sustained fun and I just just feel like there's a group now who are bringing it and they're young and they're hungry and they've got interesting games yeah I've really been quite high on the ATP in the last few weeks or so and they're players

33:32Matt Roberts:that haven't accumulated sort of soul destroying baggage against Alcaraz and Sinner yet in the way that your Sitsapases have and your Zverevs have. They could. They very well could do over the course of the next couple of years. But at the moment, it feels like they do step onto the court to face those guys feeling like, oh, yeah, back myself here. I could have a go at this. Yeah, I agree. It's amazing how quickly things can change, can't it? And I think we were, we didn't, we wanted to sort of be cautious about how hyped we were for these Feast and Draper comebacks because, you know, to protect ourselves from hurt and disappointment.

34:20Matt Roberts:But that means that we've been really pleasantly surprised by it. It's, yeah, invigorated or reinvigorated is a great way of putting it. It feels like we're in a good spot just now. So Sinner and Tien, the winner of that, David, to face the winner of Artifis against Alexander Zverev. He is so back, is Artifis. Yeah, honestly, I'm not usually the one to hold myself back about getting excited for fear of getting hurt.

34:54David Law:I'm not usually that guy. but with Artifez and Jack Draper I am in shock that they are at this level this quickly it is as though they have not had a 7, 8, 9 month layoff which both have had for very serious injuries they don't seem to think about those injuries when you're watching them they don't seem at least so far and I really am touching wood saying this they don't appear to be having any ill effects after these matches that they're winning and if anything, certainly Feast, I think he looks a better player than when he left because he's made a couple of little technical tweaks. He certainly seems to have shortened his forehand take back.

35:38David Law:There's an interview with him by Charlie Eccleshire in The Athletic that I encourage you to go and have a read of in which Arthur is talking about that change and just how generally his comeback is going. But he got to the final a couple of weeks ago, got smoked by Alcraz in the final in Doha no no great surprise there at all but to come out here and and win comfortably in his first couple of matches and then play Oji Ali Asim in the manner that I sort of when I think of those two players this is what that match looks like Oji Ali Asim with a big serve a big forehand and great movement and a backhand that is just asking to be picked on and and Feast's backhand cross court is so superior and his inside out forehand now is so reliable that he was just fine in that backhand of of Ogielia Seam like how Paolo Berdosa was was fine in the forehand of Coco Gauff the other year it was it was almost cruel the way he was just picking on it and knowing that he was going to get errors from it and yet you end up in a situation where he's setting a break up he's serving at four three fees the match is won in terms of patterns and strategy and Oji Aliassim really having no answers and yet he breaks back takes it into a tie break and leads the tie break five love now some of that credit for that needs to go to Oji Aliassim he did come up with a couple of good shots to to take the play away but most of it is just the thing I've been watching Feast do for the last three years which is just loses his concentration, lose his focus, start blaming other people or other circumstances around the court and really being in danger of actually losing the set and then maybe losing the match.

37:30David Law:But at Love 5 Down, he gave this fantastic interview to Tennis TV afterwards where he said, you know, I went over to my coaching team and Goran Ivanovic, not there by the way in America, he's he's going to come back for the uh for the clay court season but he's been in regular sort of text contact with the team and with with our draft of matches but goes over to Ivan his his coach this week and he's complaining and he's moaning and and they just said just stop complaining just focus on one point at a time and he was like he was like he didn't want to hear it initially and then he said he said I thought to myself oh maybe I will then maybe I am complaining too much he Takes one point at a time, comes back from love five down to win the tie break by just going back to what he was doing before.

38:16David Law:And that really is what I see between these two players. I think Feast has a higher ceiling than Oji Aliassim does, even though he's only ever been ranked 14 in the world so far. And Oji Aliassim has been ranked very highly in the top 10. I think that's where he's going. The interesting thing is I'm still waiting. and I was feeling this about Draper last night. Is this too early? You mentioned it earlier on, Matt. Is this too early to sort of be able to dig out a win against a top player at this stage in your comeback? And I wonder whether, although I think Feast matches up very well against Verev in a way that Tiafoe really didn't and Tiafoe's got this 1-9 record against Verev because he can't hang with him from the baseline, Feast can.

39:05David Law:and he's beaten him twice. And I think him at his best will be beating Zverev, but I'm not sure that he's quite there yet. You know, it's so early.

39:18Matt Roberts:Was that a prediction?

39:20David Law:I think Zverev will win this match because I think that it's just a little too early for Feese. But then I probably would have said that about Djokovic and Draper last night. So, you know, I certainly think that Feese is capable of beating Zverev. And if he plays to his best level today, I think he will beat him. But I just think he'll probably have one or two many mental lapses at this stage. But Goran will get his teeth into him and that will change.

39:51Matt Roberts:OK, well, we won't go too far down the predictions road because a lot of people will be listening to this already knowing the outcome of at least some of these matches. because all these quarterfinals to be played today, including the women's quarterfinals. And we'll talk about those after the break. But just before we get to part two, let's talk Lever Cup, which this year in 2026 is going to be hosted in London at the O2 Arena, which of course was the host of the ATP finals for many, many successful years. Just an absolutely brilliant place to watch tennis. And this year you'll be able to watch the Labour Cup there and you can go courtesy of Steve Fergal's International Tennis Tours, the premium hospitality and experience provider.

40:44Matt Roberts:They can sort you out with ticket packages, accommodation as well at the oh so convenient Intercontinental Hotel at the O2. I have a very complicated relationship with that hotel because I stayed there to cover the ATP finals in 2020, which was when the country was in lockdown. And the O2 arena and the surround is sort of there's a shopping mall and entertainment venue that is all sort of part of the complex or precinct, as you would say, in Australia. and that was all closed down. It was a ghost town. The hotel was officially closed. It was just kind of being rented out by the tennis event and the players were staying on one floor and the broadcasters were staying on another.

41:34Matt Roberts:And yeah, it's a very surreal memory, but somehow quite a fond one as well. So yeah, you too can have your own fond, experience at the Intercontinental at the O2 in London you can also bolt on some brilliant hospitality options, there's the Legends Club, there's the Vantage Club and there's the Luxury Suite all of them sound great and you can also pair it all with a special London sightseeing tour and welcome dinner celebration and all of that comes with a 5 % discount code for Tennis Podcast listeners on all of these 2026 Labour Cup packages. So just go to tours4tennis.com forward slash podcast.

42:21Matt Roberts:That's tours4tennis.com forward slash podcast to get your Labour Cup package with a 5 % discount. The code expires on March the 31st. That code is London26. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where once again we have a women's draw where it feels like we're on a collision course to a final between Iga Shontek and Irina Sabalenka. And every time, seemingly, it feels like we're on that collision course, something historically gets in the way. Is that going to happen this time, David?

43:07David Law:I always get stung with this. And I always end up either writing off

43:12Matt Roberts:jessica bagula or elena rebakina and then i set you up to do exactly that yeah because look i i i

43:21David Law:do i do believe in the shriantex game as being overall the second best just behind sabalenka now rebakina fans would very understandably question that given some of the some recent results i do think in these conditions on this sort of surface where it's gritty and it's high bouncing and I do think it suits Shvantec down to the ground it really takes her ball and does stuff with it that some of the other players can't really match um so look I I think we are going to end up getting that that final but I've certainly said that before I would say though on Shvantec generally I think this has been one of the better tournaments so far for the balance that she's trying to find and the not just trying to blast away through opponents but have a plan B or at least have different kind of tones to her game and the flight she's got on the forehand it feels like I talked about the control that Alkraus seems to have off his strings at the moment that's what's been there for Svantec as well she has a bit more time I think maybe because of the surface in Indian Wales as opposed to, say, Miami next week.

44:40David Law:But yeah, I'd be very encouraged on her behalf. And well, Sabalenka just looks like Sabalenka. And it's another great, I think, endorsement for the break she's had of missing some tournaments. This is the best of the two-week tournaments that aren't the Grand Slams because everybody is looking fresh and ready and up for it. I mean it seems to just sort of ebb away as the fatigue comes in and as the boredom sets in of too many long events like this. But this one just works because everybody's new to it.

45:18Matt Roberts:Is it an endorsement of the break or is it an endorsement of getting a cute new puppy? Who can say? Igor Svantec I thought looked fantastic against Karolina Mukovo yesterday. I mean, the scoreline speaks for itself. 6-2, 6-1. This, you know, quite disappointing in terms of a competitive match. I really didn't think Muka looked herself at all. I thought, yeah, she looked sluggish and a bit out of it. And, you know, undoubtedly way, way off her peak. But equally, she does have an eager Shvantech problem, does Karolina Muka. But yeah, from a Shvantech perspective, this match, I don't know what you thought.

45:59Matt Roberts:It felt like, to me, a bit of a blueprint for what the Wimfocet project has been trying to achieve. Now, that doesn't mean the project is complete and she's doing it and she's going to do it every match and it's going to be successful because, frankly, she was never under any pressure against Karolina Mukova. I want to see her do it when she's under extreme pressure. But for sure, this felt like very encouraging signs for that Win for Set project, which she's really stuck with. And through quite a lot of questioning of whether that relationship ought to continue.

46:43Catherine Whitaker:Definitely. Yeah. and what I liked about it was how patient she was but also aggressive you know like as David talked about hitting with the margin with the with the spin on the forehand and and those forehands that you know you think are maybe going to go long and then they just dip at the last minute and she's got so much clearance over the net so much safety built into them and yet the opponent can't do that much off them because she's whipping them and they're they're bouncing up at them so that was really impressive she was also i think attacking the muka of a second serve really really nicely redirecting the ball off her backhand particularly well it was a really nice performance from shantek as you said how much of an acid test is it right because the conditions favour her and the opponent favours her.

47:40Catherine Whitaker:I think come up against a different opponent in trickier conditions and that's where we've kind of seen her have the most issues. But she's also sometimes just sort of inexplicably gone off in matches as I talked about the other day. And that didn't happen at all. She was just ruthless in this one. And that was the Igor Sviontek we all know and love and have seen dominate this sport. So that was really impressive. I also thought it was interesting that she said afterwards that Mukova is pretty much the only player, the only WTA player that she watches. And she said, so therefore I know her game.

48:18Catherine Whitaker:And I was kind of thinking, why don't you watch some other players then? And she was really talking about it as though she feels really comfortable in the matchup because she knows her. And she is famously someone who does give the tactics away to her team.

48:34Matt Roberts:Yeah, she outsources all of it, doesn't she? Outsources all of it.

48:37Catherine Whitaker:And maybe that has worked for her. But I do sometimes think that there should be a slightly higher level of tactical acumen there to her. Because she is a smart person. She's a smart tennis player. And we don't always see that. But we did against Mukova. She knows how to play her. Yeah, maybe I'm reading too much into that. But it was something that did strike me. I feel like watch more WCA tennis should be your sort of homework here, Igor Shontag.

49:09Matt Roberts:She's got Svitolina next, which is a matchup that would be very easy to dismiss on the basis of what we saw yesterday from Igor Shontag. But to quote Matt Roberts in our WhatsApp chat, I'm going to quote you to you, Matt. 2026 Svitolina is no joke.

49:30Catherine Whitaker:I stand by it. I mean, she's been so good this year. And I think probably the only match that sort of stands out in a way where you would talk about her limitations would be the Australian Open against Sabalenka. But to focus on that, I think, would be to detract from the season she's had generally where she's been winning so many matches, battling hard, beating top players, playing this more aggressive style than she used to play. She's a problem for pretty much everyone. And, you know, Svantec has dominated their head to head, but they've often had tight sets. And I do think Svitolina will ask some of those questions that you're talking about there, Catherine.

50:21Catherine Whitaker:She'll put Svantec under pressure, and then it'll be a question of whether Svantec can respond to it. I think she probably will, but you cannot just brush Svitolina aside, especially this year. She's playing so well.

50:38Matt Roberts:Svitolina won via retirement over Katarina Siniarkova in the previous round and on the subject of Siniarkova, in her previous round before that, she was caught in the crossfire, quite frankly. Well, no, headline. She scored one of the biggest single wins of her career. Well done, Katarina Siniarkova. Secondary to that, she got caught in the crossfire of Mira Androva's latest meltdown, quite possibly her most dramatic yet, Matt. I mean, really quite extraordinary scenes at the end of this in Indian Wells.

51:23Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, it was bubbling away the whole match. She's got an awkward game, Siniak, a lot of slice forehands, sudden flat backhands. And she's a crafty player. She has her own battles, I think, with sort of keeping everything in check on court. But she was causing Androva problems. Androva was not at her best. And she was also injured, Siniak. The fact that she retired against Vitolina sort of tells you that. she was not moving well particularly in the second set which she ended up stealing on a tie break and that i think just was too much for andrea to be able to cope with i think she thought she should be winning this match comfortably and yet she wasn't she was in a tussle and she kind of dismissed her team they came back but there was a there was a moment where michita martinez and the team left and they weren't there at the start of the third set they were there by the end of the match again um and in the end was just like you talked about memes catherine i mean i mean cinematic scenes at the end with the with the racket slam from uh andreva when she lost then a handshake booing from the crowd because andreva has has slammed her racket away sinyakova slumping in her chair exhausted pretty much in tears i think probably knowing that okay she scored this huge win but how much of herself has she had to give there and then andreva leaving the court mouthing off at the crowd and then the the camera person and the director chef's kiss to them for capturing this scene where you get andreva mouthing off and leaving the court and then zooming in on this woman in the crowd gasping at andreva and clutching her pearls scandalized the fact that andreva had dared to be rude she was yeah she just could not cope with this it was hilarious absolutely hilarious scenes but sort of unfortunately underneath all of that there is there is the more serious and more troubling i think aspect of this being a continued pattern for andreva i've barely seen her lose a match over the last nine months or so where this hasn't defined it in some way where there's been some sort of spiral whether it be with the way she's playing whether it be with her box whether it be with the crowd whatever it is it feels like she's really struggling mindset wise mental wise on on court right now and And I don't know, I think you...

54:13Catherine Whitaker:It's kind of like the Marco Silva question at Fulham. Like there's been so much good done by Marco Silva and yet people are starting to question it. And I feel like there's been so much good done by Conchita Martinez. But I do think you've reached the point now where you have to question that relationship. And I don't want the answer in either situation, by the way, Marco Silva or Conchita Martinez, to be, let's just get rid of them. I think they've done too much good work. like there's too much positive there but I do think there needs to be some kind of reckoning and some kind of okay what we're doing isn't quite working in terms of taking us to that next level and something needs to change I think in this because for a long time you could sort of put it down to her age and you still can to a certain extent she is still young and for a long

55:02Matt Roberts:time but it's the trend isn't it it's the fact that it's not getting better it's getting worse and I think end of last season

55:09Catherine Whitaker:I put a lot of it down to fatigue you know it just felt but now start of the season when she's fresh it's still there and I don't really have the answers but I just know watching that that something something does need to change I think soon

55:27Matt Roberts:so Rinder Kinesh compared to Federer and Kinshita Martinez compared to Marco Silva big big big week so Svantec to face Svitolina the winner of that to face the winner of Pagula against Rabakina both of whom David is writing off in typical style

55:48David Law:warning myself not to

55:50Matt Roberts:who are you writing off less out of Pagula and Rabakina

55:54David Law:well the thing is I still think either one of them could win this match and then go and end up beating Svantec because that does seem to be something that happens and it's my But I do fall into that trap and I'm really trying hard not to. And yes, I could still be doing it because I think overall I would still put Schvantech through. I don't think that either one of these players necessarily plays as well in Indian Wells or at least feels as convincing in Indian Wells as maybe they do on the surfaces that they're a little more lower bouncing and it's sort of in the hitting zone more obviously.

56:33Matt Roberts:Hang on a second, Rebacca is a former champion.

56:37David Law:Yes, that's very true. I mean, look, she can win on anything, can't she? If she's on, she can win stuff, doesn't it? I'm not as convinced by it as I am on lower bouncing courts generally. But she's also starting to play her way into this tournament. She had that rough one against Tadie Baptiste. Then she beat Marta Kostiuk. She's now beaten Sonny Cartel in a match that was ended in a retirement, but she was getting on top of that. Cartel, by the way, very good tournament for her. She'd beaten Madison Keyes from a set down in the previous round, the British player. I mean, that was an upset in its own right.

57:20David Law:And she's been battling a back injury all tournament, apparently, and then it was finally a little too much for her in this one. But it's a fascinating little bit of the draw because the last couple, Rabakina has beaten Pagula. Pagula has had wins against Rabakina as well. She's the one that I think that Pagula struggles to defuse. You know, when she's able to just sort of defuse the game of Enissimova and just drive her crazy, it doesn't seem to stop Rabakina. She just hits another one. It's like, okay, you got that one back, we'll have this one. And that's what... It never feels like her temperature rises in her head and she ends up getting down on herself or exploding in the moment.

58:11David Law:I would make Rebecca the favourite for it because I think she ultimately is the better player of the two. But, like I say, I'll be watching because I don't know. I don't feel that confident. I don't feel Yggish Vyantek watching Karolina Mookova confident of what's going to happen.

58:31Catherine Whitaker:I thought Pagula was fantastic against Bengshik yesterday. I hadn't quite realised the one-sided nature of that head-to-head. Bengshik had never lost a set against Pagula in four meetings. And Pagula, even in the World Feed interview, she gave it. She literally said, nobody beats me five times in a row. and she said and she was right i'm a better player now than the last time we played you know a lot of those meetings were you know i think it was a couple in 2021 and she said i've got more tools now pergula i use my slice better and i i don't know i've just had a little mindset change with pergula i always felt like i was focusing on her limitations and that was probably a me problem but i always felt like i was thinking oh but she'll she'll reach her ceiling in a tournament I'm starting to think about like the possibilities of her game more and seeing the seeing the weapons she's got you know like this one got tight she served for the match in to win it easily in straight sets got pegged back went to a tie break she just upped it a little bit and she gave a big reaction when she won it like she knew that that was that was a big moment finally beating Benchik I'm so impressed and yet I always underestimate Rabakina as well so that's a yeah really really intriguing match

1:00:03Matt Roberts:so that's the bottom half of the draw Shontek's Vitalina winner to face Pagula or Rabakina top half of the draw we've got Sabalenka against Mboko Sabalenka handily beating Nomi Osaka in the previous round of match that we were really excited about, disappointed that it got put in the vibeless death slot first on Stadium One. I mean, I thought this was just kind of an expose of the limitations of Naomi Osaka that Sabalenka once had herself and has worked so hard to not have anymore. And I don't, that probably sounds harsh on Naomi Osaka. The thing that she does, she does brilliantly still. She's still one of the best ball strikers on tour.

1:01:02Matt Roberts:But, and I, you know, I understand why she hasn't been able to develop her game and add tools to it in the way that Sabalenka has. You know, the period of time when Sabalenka was doing that with her game. Naomi Osaka was on maternity leave and before that she was having a mental health break from the sport and there does come a point in your career where it does make more sense to work on the things you've already got rather than to try and add to your game. Where exactly that point in your career is, it varies for everyone etc etc. So I don't mean for it to sound harsh on Osaka I more mean that the way Osaka was playing just underlined how extraordinary it is the way Sabalenka is added to her toolkit she is so far from a ball basher is Sabalenka like she's she looked like Karolina Mukova out there but a Karolina Mukova that can also bash the ball better than anybody it was so good from Sabalenka yeah it was I was having

1:02:14Catherine Whitaker:having similar thoughts because of course the last time they'd met was in 2018 and back then you you would have described Sabalenka as a ball basher you know a very good one but no refinement whatsoever to her game she was she was such an all-or-nothing player and you think about it now and I was thinking wow the sport's moved on since 2018 and then I was thinking no Sabalenka's moved the sport on you know like she has she's made it so that you now to be winning the biggest tournaments you she's kind of the bar you've got you've got to clear her you know like people we've seen win grand slams have often had to had to go through Sabalenka whether it be Goff or Keyes or you know Rabatkin herself and Sabalenka now is as you said an all court player.

1:03:04Catherine Whitaker:The number of times she was coming to the net in this match was impressive and the slices she'll throw in in defence is just a shot that Osaka does not have. Yeah, she was very impressive Sabalenka. And as you said, the dimension that Osaka has still very dangerous and did cause problems in that second set. But then Sabalenka met all those moments really well and responded to the pressure, be it break points or just a bit of pressure on serve and served away out of them what sabalenka is looking for is that kind of composure and that responding to pressure in some of these grand slam finals that she's lost because i think game wise she's got more than everyone else right now and she probably feels like she doesn't quite have the grand slam tally to to sort of reflect that But if she can get that meeting the pressure moments right in the Grand Sam finals that she had here, she's pretty much unstoppable.

1:04:08She's also got an excellent new dog.

1:04:13Matt Roberts:I would like to, I mean, I think Ash is already a Hall of Fame tennis dog. She's a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I'm biased because Billie Jean is half Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. But my God, she's adorable. She's, yeah, I mean, she looks like a teddy bear. She's just, I don't think I've seen her with her paws on the ground yet. Unclear if she does walk or if she just gets carried around. But she's, yeah, she looks like she's on some sort of sedative all the time, just sort of flopping in people's arms. She's absolutely adorable. So we get another look at Savalenka and Boko in the next round.

1:04:51Matt Roberts:And Boko demolishing our prediction, Matt, from the last podcast. Thank you very much, Victoria and Boko. Handily dismissed Amanda Anisimovas 6-4, 6-1. This match took place on Stadium 2 in the night session. And we mentioned in the previous podcast that Stadium 2 was getting extremely sparse crowds because of the change in ticketing policy for 2026. and particularly in the night session matches and it was so stark during Mboko and Anisimova. Okay, not in terms of a competitive match, it didn't quite live up to what we'd hoped but that is an all-star hot ticket match and it was empty. It felt like they were trying to create a physical metaphor for late stage capitalism with that match.

1:05:44Matt Roberts:It was a really dystopian, grim scene. And the Athletic pursued the story and they got the following quote from the tournament on that change to the ticketing policy to make Stadium 2 unavailable to grounds pass holders as it has been in previous years. The tournament said,

1:06:37Matt Roberts:I interpreted that David maybe this is overly optimistic as a quiet admission that they won't be doing this again in the future that they might be evolving back to their previous policy

1:06:52David Law:if they've got any sense they will be anyway is that how you interpreted it too yeah yeah I mean it's been a disaster it's been embarrassment I mean you've ended up with an empty stadium for huge tennis matches. I don't think that was your plan. And that's what's happened. So well done. Change your back. Great.

1:07:15Matt Roberts:Yeah. No notes.

1:07:16Catherine Whitaker:Yes. It's not going to take much careful evaluation to realise what a mess they've made of that. I did want to just say how well Mboko played. And, you know, I was I was feeling really positive about Anissa Mova. I felt like she'd found the sort of equilibrium that she'd been missing at the start of the season. I was reading her press conference transcript and she was talking about Alyssa Liu and the inspiration she's taken from her and watching her and realizing that she felt like at the start of the season she's been putting too much pressure on herself. And that was a shift from last year. And she needed to get back to kind of enjoying what she was doing.

1:07:57Catherine Whitaker:And I thought, well, that really marries up with this form that I've just suddenly seen against Blinkova and Raducanu. And it just felt like she was moving in the right direction. But I suppose this match was kind of a reminder that things are not always entirely, you know, a straight line with progress. You're going to have steps backwards. And I think we did see a bit of a sort of second set crash out again from Anissimova. And unfortunately for Anissimova, she's extremely funny when she's angry. and she sort of creates great memes as well. There was that one the other day where she was trying to stuff her racket in her racket bag after she'd lost.

1:08:33Catherine Whitaker:And this time there was the one where she was telling her team to sort of zip it and she sort of becomes a meme. But, you know, it's sort of relatable stuff. But, you know, it is the thing that I think she needs to work on the most. But I just want to say how well Mboko played and she's a bit of a shapeshifter, Mboko. You know, she can be the aggressor if she needs to, she's got real punch on her shorts. Or like in this match, she can really like say, okay, you want to go movement? I'll expose your movement. And the number of times she was exposing that element of Anissa Mova's game and getting her on the run and absorbing the pace and then packing a punch herself as sort of a line-hitting winner.

1:09:20Catherine Whitaker:She was great in this match in Boko and real control about her and composure about her, which was kind of lacking for Manisimova. Yeah, a lesson for me. Stop picking Amanda Manisimova for everything. And there's nothing like someone just absolutely dunking on one of your faves to sort of realise how good they are. And I probably have been a little bit sleepy on just how good Mboko is. And I hope she comes out against Sabalenka.

1:09:52Matt Roberts:she feels like she's getting better every week

1:09:54Catherine Whitaker:she does and that's what makes the Sabalenka match interesting right because we saw it a few weeks ago and there was a gap but Boko did cause some problems at the end of that match and if she can if she can start how she finished in Melbourne it could be a great one but then you know Sabalenka can also just raise it so yeah I can't wait for that

1:10:17Matt Roberts:I can't tell you how thrilled I was to hear Amanda Anasimova talk about Alyssa Liu. Look, I think every human being on the planet can learn something from Alyssa Liu, but there is so much in her story and essence that tennis players in particular, I feel like, could learn or take something. So yeah, it really made my heart sing to see those quotes. Just finally on the women's side, Sabalenka against Mboka, the winner of that to take on, Linda Nozkova or Talia Gibson. I mean, Nozkova seems on a sort of quite underrated, inevitable march towards the top 10, doesn't she? I mean, she kind of feels like a top 10 player to me in terms of her top level 6-2, 6-love against Alexandra Ayala in the previous round.

1:11:09Matt Roberts:Talia Gibson has qualified and now won three matches to make it through to the quarterfinals. her previous round win against Jasmine Paolini. And look, again, headline here is Talia Gibson, what a week, what a story, keeping sensation of the year alive, sensation of the day alive through until March. We thank you, Talia Gibson, very well done. And again, if this were a kind of isolated result for Jasmine Paolini, the story would absolutely be Talia Gibson. But the fact is that this defeat is part of a really quite worrying trend for Jasmine Paolini, Matt.

1:11:55Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, it is. You know, we talked the other day about how she battled through some three set matches earlier in the tournament. I think against Potapova and Tomjanovic. The truth was the game wasn't really there, but she was at least coming through tight matches. and sometimes you feel like that's a way to build some confidence. In this one, she didn't look bad to me. She just looked ineffective, you know, and in the two-year spell 2024 and 2025, where she was reaching slam finals, winning Rome, qualifying for the WTA finals, you wouldn't have described her game as ineffective. You know, she was...

1:12:37Catherine Whitaker:So many times we were caught by how much of a power player she seemed and stepping in and taking the ball early and changing the direction. And all of that's just sort of gone a little bit. The confidence has been sapped away. I don't know what it is. You know, she had a lot of coaching changes, hadn't she? Wenzel Furlan out, Mark Lopez in for a bit. Now this guy Danilo Pizorno's in. Irani's in a more official capacity. Maybe it's just been a little bit too much disruption there. I don't know. She was hit off the court. She was absolutely just hit off the court by Talia Gibson, who is in danger of sort of unsensationing herself.

1:13:17Catherine Whitaker:You know, she needs to be careful. She might be too good to be a sensation. She's playing so well.

1:13:24Matt Roberts:Jasmine Paolini's gone back to being a good draw and Talia Gibson is unsensationing herself. What a world.

1:13:32Catherine Whitaker:Honestly, she is a big hitter off both wings. She really does clock the ball. It's quite impressive. And yeah, she just dominated, especially that final set. Return winners, power off both wings. Really like what I saw from her. But yeah, it is a tough scene for Paolini just now.

1:13:55Matt Roberts:OK, that is it for part two. And I'll look ahead to the women's quarterfinals and the rest of the women's tournament. We'll be back in part three with a bit of calendar news from the ATP. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we just wanted to touch up on a story broken in The Athletic today, centering around the 10th ATP Masters 1000 event, the addition to the ATP Masters 1000 calendar, which we know is going to be held in Saudi Arabia. That is the extent of what has been announced so far. It is much rumoured to be an event that will take place in February after the Australian Open, but that hasn't been formally announced.

1:14:41Matt Roberts:Now, the story that's been broken today by The Athletic is about the ATP and about the Saudi Arabian authorities and the ways in which they intend to make space for that 10th Masters 1000 event, David, in the ATP calendar.

1:15:01David Law:Yeah, this is some seriously good reporting from Charlie Eccleshire and Matt Futterman and starts with the sentence, a shopping spree designed to reshape the calendar of the men's tennis tour is intensifying. because as well as trying to make space for that Saudi Arabian tournament that you referenced, they're also trying to sell it to the players as a calendar reshuffle to make the off-season longer. And obviously they want more money to be able to put it into players' pockets as well and all the rest of it that comes with it. So they're trying to do it in a manner that is acceptable to everybody.

1:15:42David Law:Now, one of the ways they're doing it is by using the vast riches of Saudi Arabia and the PIVF fund, the sort of sports arm of that, by buying back sanctions of tournaments. Charlie and Matt are reporting that they've already had offers accepted from the Chengdu Open, the Hong Kong Open later in the year. It's been recently announced that Brussels is going to be moving to the, the reporting is at least it's going to move to the middle of the year and be on grass and then I think the big headline elements of this story and I do encourage you to go and read the whole thing because it gives you the full background detail and all the various permutations but Buenos Aires and Acapulco in February which we've just had of course as part of the South American and Central American swing of tournaments that is so popular with players and so well attended, they're also being offered vast sums to basically disappear or at least relocate.

1:16:49David Law:Exactly what will end up happening, we don't know. But the idea is to create that extra space. It is going to cost a fortune. I mean, in the athletics article, it says hundreds of millions of dollars are going to be spent because not everybody wants to sell. Apparently, the tournaments in the Middle East, Dubai, Doha, they didn't want to move. They don't want to move. They don't want they're saying no thanks um so this is what's what we're left with most likely um and i mean it's where do you fall do do you think well i i want the the circuit to have this longer off season and to be fewer events and less uh cluttered okay well you can but you're going to have to accept saudi arabia's money to do so and they get a place at the table and we got to make room for them and they get you get masses of money but then you also don't get to have this amazing atmosphere in South America at one or two tournaments or or in Acapulca it's you can't have everything is the bottom line but you but they they are saying that they can get stuff done

1:17:57Matt Roberts:and it's going to cost it leaves me with the same feeling I had uh when they when the WTA announced WTA announced the maternity fund, the funds for which were being provided by the Saudi Public Investment Fund, this sinister Faustian deal with the devil, quite frankly. You can have this brilliant thing that nobody could possibly argue with being a good thing. But hey, here's where the money's coming from. And you can't have everything. So do you want the money or not? Nobody's going to argue that the... It's very, very canny from them. Because nobody can argue that shortening the calendar is a bad thing.

1:18:50Matt Roberts:And the players certainly aren't going to argue that. but yeah it comes at a it comes at both a very real cost in terms of you know the decimation of the the South American swing is potentially tragic really for for men's tennis and then obviously the sort of the moral cost of further intertwining yourself with with a state with the human rights record that that saudi arabia has um of which our views are are extremely clear um but yeah it's um it's fantastic reporting as you say david from uh from matt and charlie in the athletic and uh we will keep you updated as um as things progress And obviously there's the other element at the moment of, you know, further entrenching yourself with the Middle East.

1:19:47Matt Roberts:Feels like just not a brilliant thing to be doing on a practical level right now for any sport. But obviously that deal is already done for the ATP. OK, that is it for today's show. Feels like there's been a lot. I feel like I need a bit of a lie down. A lot of good stuff, a lot of really meaty stuff to get our teeth into. But yeah, I need, well, either a lie down or I need to stare at a dog for a while. And luckily, there is a dog available for me to stare at, and it's Goldie. I really love Goldie. Goldie is an apricot miniature poodle owned by Tracy. So if you put Goldie together with Ash, Irina Sabalenka's new dog, you get Billie Jean.

1:20:41Matt Roberts:What a joy. Goldie just turned 13 and she's big sister to our epileptic, Bach-loving, aria-singing Labradoodle, Gary. Absolutely obsessed with a Labradoodle called Gary. Goldie is a vocalist too, but not interested in classical music. Her insistent vocalisations start about an hour before each mealtime, a high-pitched warbling to let us know that she wouldn't mind an early bird seating. She has a friend called Ziggy, who, 12 years her junior, gives Go-Go the run, which I assume is the nickname for Goldie. Love that. Ziggy gives Go-Go the runaround, which she mostly grudgingly tolerates. She joined our family at eight weeks old and has licked away tears, celebrated dozens of birthdays, myriad graduations, endured the horrible pain of people going away to college.

1:21:35Matt Roberts:She still tries to get inside suitcases when anyone is leaving and pretty much continuously scavenged every trash bin for used tissues, which she tears to bits. We love her so, says Tracy. And she's absolutely gorgeous. I'm biased because she's got a bit of the Billie Jean about her, but she's wonderful. Thank you, Tracy. And thank you, Goldie. Hello to our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:22:09Catherine Whitaker:We have Ada Pesch in Zurich.

1:22:13Matt Roberts:Hello, Ada.

1:22:15Catherine Whitaker:We know Ada. And Ada says, I have a tortoiseshell rescue cat called Fang. And says, I haven't met Roger Federer yet, but his parents have come to the opera house where I'm the concertmaster. And I've met them. Yes, we know Ada's the Zurich concertmaster.

1:22:36Matt Roberts:Of course. I love the I haven't met Roger Federer yet. I love the confidence of that. Yeah. Haven't met Bruce Springsteen yet, Matt.

1:22:47David Law:Absolutely.

1:22:49Catherine Whitaker:Absolutely.

1:22:50Matt Roberts:Thank you, Ada.

1:22:52Catherine Whitaker:We've also got Barry Bobrow.

1:22:57Matt Roberts:Hello, Barry. Hi, Barry.

1:22:59Catherine Whitaker:Who is from Charlotte, North Carolina.

1:23:02Matt Roberts:That's an iconic name, Barry.

1:23:05Catherine Whitaker:and Barry says my wife Karen and I are huge fans of the pod, we go to the US Open every year and we keep walking by the press area underneath Ash looking for a sighting of you all

1:23:17Matt Roberts:Oh Barry keep doing it, you'll see us eventually, that is the right place to find us

1:23:24David Law:Yeah, if Matt can meet Bruce Springsteen one day you can meet us Yeah

1:23:29Matt Roberts:Ad is going to meet Roger Federer you're going to meet us and Matt's going to meet Bruce Springsteen these things are going to happen

1:23:36Catherine Whitaker:yeah just walk by the media garden between sessions day and night and chances are we'll be recording the pod

1:23:48Matt Roberts:Barry Cowan yep

1:23:51David Law:who's been commentating this week

1:23:55Matt Roberts:I said that as if we might have more Barry's but I think I think we're one and done with Barry Cowan there aren't we probably yeah Thank you Barry

1:24:05Catherine Whitaker:And finally we have a shout out From Karen Wooster For her new daughter-in-law Mary Claire Fisher Who's from Ann Arbor Michigan And Karen writes Matt delivered a surprise birthday Shout out for my son Ryan At the 2024 live show In New York I remember this Ryan and Mary Claire were married in December. They spent their honeymoon in New Zealand, Tasmania and Australia and capped off their trip at the Australian Open where Mary Claire completed the fan slam. So cool.

1:24:47Matt Roberts:Wow. Well, Ryan's chosen well, hasn't he?

1:24:52Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, well, Karen agrees. Karen says, Mary Claire is a journalist hiker and has a cat named Charlie. I couldn't be happier. She's a wonderful addition to our family.

1:25:03Matt Roberts:What a lovely, generous and kind thing to do. Karen's just gifting shout outs left, right and centre. What a woman. I love it so much, Karen. Thank you. And welcome to the shout out family, Mary Claire, already having completed your fan slam. Whatever next. That's absolutely lovely. so thank you Karen and hello Mary Claire so Mary Claire, Karen, Barry and Ada thank you very much indeed for being friends of the Tennis Podcast of course if you'd like to become a friend of the pod get yourself a shout out, an intro all sorts of things and access to all of our bonus content ad free listening, all that jazz, the link is in our show notes we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we'll be back on Monday with our Indian Wells review show.

1:25:57Matt Roberts:And that show is live on YouTube at 8pm UK time if you'd like to join us then. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you Monday.