Live from Wimbledon Day 13 - Swiatek’s dream day a nightmare for Anisimova

0:10Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast live from Wimbledon on day 13 of the championships, the day of the women's singles final won by Iger Svjontek to claim her sixth major title in the most emphatic possible fashion. Six love, six love in 57 minutes. I'm Catherine Murtica, joined tonight by David Law, Charlie Eccleshire, special guest from The Athletic, and plain old brunette Matt Roberts over here, just as we've always known and loved him. Yeah, there's an alternate timeline where this is a very different pod and my hair is very different tomorrow. But alas. when Charlie signed up to come on tonight he thought it would be vibes-y, that man would be blonde.

0:57Yeah, I did have very different, you kind of have a rough sense of it and you know initially we were going to come and do it straight, we'd all be buzzing off a great final yeah, didn't quite pan out I think it's better to say It's a really difficult one isn't it because like there is lots to celebrate here, Iga Shiontek being back to her best, seemingly being a force right at the top of women's tennis again putting in the most astonishing performance that deserves to be lauded and celebrated and analyzed and yet like there's just undeniably a sense of awkwardness and discomfort and sadness really that you just you just can't get away from so we're going to have to kind of just embrace all of those elements to today I think in equal measure David yeah I think so because that scoreline is the result of two things at the same time.

1:54One, Iguys Viantic playing out of her mind, doing what she does so well. There's nobody in the game today that can do that. She is talked about for her bakery for a good reason. This is not an isolated incident. It's been fewer and far between this year, even though her ranking and her race position have stayed good and she's put in good performances. We haven't seen this type of run for a while. And yet, as it was going along, it was all very familiar, if you just think about her other Grand Slam final performances. But I also think, had Amanda Onissimova come out and played as she can, and I know those two things are not in isolation, but she was capable of doing a lot better today, had she not, as in her words, slightly frozen out there.

2:50And it's a shame for the occasion, for the competition. It's been a brilliant tournament. Amanda Anisimova has provided some incredible moments within it, and she deserves to be remembered for those. And it's a shame on that level that you've ended up with this awkwardness. But you're right. I mean, the sheer brilliance of Shiontech must be celebrated too. it's not an easy one to sum up in a simple way. Yeah, this might be her first love and love Grand Slam final, but she's got previous for playing Grand Slam finals like this and making them a bit awkward. Yeah, her most recent one against Paolini wasn't dissimilar.

3:29I think the thing is, she is really the worst, the absolute worst player to play. I mean, even if you're playing Sabalenka, even if Sabalenka's peaking, she might just throw in a loose game or two where she goes for too much. you know she starts showing off almost or maybe she throws in a loose service game where she double faults a bit. Fionnick was so unbelievably dialed in to the point where she's like fist pumping in the last game and you know with a lot of players you'd be like that's almost mean and a bit sadistic but I think she's just so in the zone and taking so little for granted like even at that moment she's probably thinking next point next point got to win the next point and you're you know and you feel if you're on the movie must be a bit like come on like can I have a game I mean it was yeah it was a really tough watch and I think it's it's a strange one because if Siobhan Tech had won comfortably but with a sort of respectable scoreline she would absolutely be the story you know way much and it's a strange one because from a tennis perspective she is the story really this it's an amazing recovery and journey from where she was even as recently as the French Open but I think for the sort of casual fan they're they're watching that final today and all their thoughts right now are with Anna Samova because it's such a horribly relatable it's the thing anyone who's played tennis at any level dreads you know because tennis unlike a lot of sports has like a very obvious worst case scenario and it's always there kind of in the back of your mind this could happen and weirdly I said to Matt Fatima and I sat next to you, we were talking about the psychology of when you go into a final, do you prepare for the worst?

5:08Do you even give voice to the worst that could happen? Do you say to your player, what do you do if you go four left, five left down, don't panic? Or do you not even voice that because you don't want to make them think about it? Well, sports psychologists say that you shouldn't even allow the worst case scenario to be in your mind as a, you should never say to yourself, don't do this, don't miss this putt. or don't drive into the rough because all your brain hears is into the rough or miss the putt. Apparently that is very rudimentary sports psychology, but I just don't know how anybody does that.

5:43You sit down at Six Love Down, a Grand Slam final. I know these are elite athletes that employ sports psychologists and all the rest of it. How any human mind can not go, bloomin' heck, just don't lose this love and love. I just don't know. how that doesn't pop into your mind. And I did want to ask her that actually, but I was going to ask, that was my question, but then she talked about not feeling fit and having a mischievous, and I just wanted to, I used up my question clarifying exactly what she meant by that, but my question was going to be, at what point did you start thinking about the love and love?

6:15And I'd be curious, and maybe she wouldn't answer that, I don't know. What point did you start thinking about love and love? At love too. Really? No, seriously, because honestly, the very first point of the match was a warning sign. She put in her first serve, but it was a slow first serve. She didn't hit it properly. She didn't strike it well. And then the return came back at her and she shanked a backhand. Immediately, I was like, okay, this is... We didn't see that in the opening stages against Sabalenka, for example, which was another huge match. So immediately, I was worried in that first game.

6:50I wasn't thinking love and love. But at love too, when that was the only game she had game point in and when she couldn't get over the line in that one and lost it and went down a double break I was thinking about it because of Iguis Fiontech like against anyone else I don't think I would have been because as Charlie said there's there's a chance of there being a poor game or a lapse in concentration or something but we've seen how ruthless and I use that as a total compliment Iguis Fiontech is she's she's relentless in her brilliance and you could just tell that she was playing well she was putting the returns deep she was middling the ball she was finding a high percentage of first serve she was doing all the things she needed to do and down the other end Anissa Mova was frozen with nerves as as she said and as we later found out from her press conference as well she just said she had no energy she was tired she was fatigued she was she was burnt out by kind of everything that she's done these two weeks and and that combination plus her opponent honestly I was thinking about it early in this match and I was just so desperate for it not to happen not your best day Matt you called it David I know you didn't you didn't want to be right but you did foresee this maybe not love and love but you did you did foresee a version of this as a likely-ish scenario certainly one of the two really I mean, I guess there's three because there are two other scenarios whereby Anissimova wins and Svantec wins a much closer match.

8:29But I definitely thought, I mean, I can't remember who won the toss at the start of the match because the moment that Anissimova was serving first, I was a bit anxious for her because, you know... I had the exact same thought, yeah. I sort of thought she might be better off... Because if you think about it, I think when she won the Sabalenka match, she had to receive for it in the end. And she lost her serve trying to serve it out. And it's very fashionable these days to elect to receive, even on grass. I remember when I'd be in the studio with Greg Rzedsky in Amazon days, whenever anybody would elect to receive on grass, he'd go, what are you doing?

9:02But actually, these days, it's very common. I watched it on TV. We have one centre court seat. I watched it on TV with the sound on, listening to the commentary. And there was a moment towards, I think, the end of the first set, or maybe the start of the second set where Tracy Austin and John McInerney talked about whether you have that conversation before a match. What if I'm six love down? You know, what mindset you need to have? And neither one of them seemed to be able to entertain that idea. They didn't feel like that that's something you could do. But to get back to your question, I mean, I said I thought there's a possibility it could be a 50-minute match, and it was 57.

9:45and I don't take any enjoyment about that being the case, but I've just seen it too many times with Svantec. She's the master of it. The only other player I've ever seen like that is Steffi Graf. I mean, Martina Navratilovi used to get results like that, but the era wasn't as competitive as it is now, I don't think. There were a lot of weaker players. I mean, Anissa Mova isn't a 6-love, 6-love against player when she's playing well. but Svantec has that ability it's the single mindedness that Steffi had and it all goes so fast she's you know the worst feeling of the lot must be in Anisimova's shoes occasionally she hit a good shot you saw her hit one of those shots and Svantec just dealt with it and that must be a horrible feeling to see one of your better struck shots just come back and it's in Anissa Mova's case it's out of the way of you and you've got to move to it and she doesn't have that.

10:48There was a point wasn't there in the final game of the first set which ended up with kind of both of them at the net and Anissa Mova somehow ended up losing it and her body seemed to say like I mean this isn't my day but I mean yeah I feared a comprehensive win but I thought that would look sort of like a one and three or something like that I think you know that's so extreme and I think there's an additional fear Wimbledon there have been a disproportionate number of really bad women's finals here I don't think I don't feel like that happens so much the other slams I know if that's a grass thing and it can just sets can suddenly go really quickly but we have had a few I wonder if it's what Matt is always saying about like the atmosphere of a final well you were always making the point about grand sum finals just feeling different but that is particularly exaggerated here isn't it like so much yeah ceremony and things it's so quiet still or it freaks me out if you were designing a situation to make somebody feel anxious and yeah it would be exactly like create an anxiety dream scenario you would create this and honestly i thought it would be a long time before we did a podcast about a match that i found as tough to watch as the Ons Djerber when we were in the final from two years ago and here we are.

12:07Just one other little thing I wanted to say on just how brilliant Svantec was and you know obviously watch a lot of Amanda Nisimov and this wasn't obviously anywhere close to Pika Nisimov but even in the rallies where she did get into it as David's described the thing I noticed about Svantec was her ability to still get to the ball and break the sidelines with her shots. You know, in particular on the backhand, okay, Anisimova was not striking her shots well today, but Svantec's ability to be in the right position and get width on her ground strokes so early in a rally is something that I just don't think anyone else in the tour can do, really.

12:47I talk a lot about how Sabalenka's improved at that in terms of generating width on her ground strokes to go with power, but Svjantek at her best does it better than anyone and that was absolute kryptonite for Anisimova whose feet weren't really moving today because of the nerves and she just wasn't in position and Svjantek just exploited that just expertly. And there was a double thing on that because often she was doing it to the Anisimova backhand which felt sort of counterintuitive you're going after the player's strength but it moved her out of position and it was also quite an alpha move of the like when we've seen Sinner do that sort of thing before I'd be like oh you like your backhand yeah i've got a not bad backhand myself and i'm gonna back myself it was a message to matt you like that backhand yeah exactly let me rip it to shreds yeah i read that in your piece actually i thought that was fantastic i also saw the the line a portrait of nerves in action and i don't know were you were you we were all just in the anisimova press conference just now and look she didn't claim she wasn't nervous she wasn't backing away from that at all But were you surprised at all about the extent to which she put that performance and scoreline down to physicality?

13:55I think the way I read that is that it's physical things are easier. There are quicker fixes for them. And so I think if you're trying to process, it's far easier to be like, I wasn't feeling physically great. Next time I'm going to feel physically better. And I thought there was a bit of that with Jack Draper earlier in the tournament. You know, he went really, really heavy on just like, it's not a mental thing. It's not about pressure. This is a tennis thing. And I totally believe him. But I also think that's just because that like. Make it something within your control. Make it something you can control and that it's easier to make improvements on.

14:32So, yeah, because I think we all went in there expecting her to kind of pour up, not pour a heart out. She's not that kind of player necessarily. but certainly for us watching it it's hard not to put a huge amount of stock on the psychological the mental element but i think yeah that's a a way to help her kind of process it i was just going to say as well i think again to try and bring all of this back to giving sviontek the credit that she deserves as well like just her ball is just a nightmare i think to face if you're not feeling the racket well like that heavy spin I remember there was a point when we were watching Shontek against Bencic and obviously you were riding high on Anisimova just having won that incredible match against Sabalenka but we were watching Shontek demolish Bencic you know we shouldn't forget that Bencic only got two games in the last two matches 20 games in a row she's won to win it's wild you pointed at the screen and you said that is what she's going to do to Anisimova and that's going to be a problem.

15:40Like, this isn't just a story of Anisimova freezing on the big stage at all. No, I think Anisimova could have started like that today against other players and been able to slightly work her way in and find something, get a lift from the crowd somewhere, but there was just nowhere for her to go because Fiontek was sublime. And what a point to finish it as well. like really great one I was kind of pleased it did at least end on a on a Svantec winner yeah she she was awesome it's crazy isn't it that we're here with Igor Svantec Wimbledon champion after the year that she's had the clay court season that she's had I mean like she's not going to be looked upon it's very strange to talk about a former world number one a recent world number one, a five-time major champion, as a really surprise winner of Wimbledon.

16:38But honestly, if a few weeks ago you told us that Igor Shontek was going to win Wimbledon, we would have been really shocked. Especially when she was losing, what was it, one-on-one to Coco Golf? Something like that. My mind goes back to the pre-tournament press conference with Jessica Begula, when she was describing the surface and how you can suddenly kind of have it. on this surface. And she pointed to Vondrusova and Krachikova as players that had shown no real form and suddenly won Wimbledon, you know? And it's kind of similar here. Yes, Svantec did have more form on the eve of this tournament getting to a final on grass.

17:20But, you know, those last two performances, I don't think that they were brewing all the way through the tournament. I don't think she did well. But she lost a set against Katie McNally, I think, along the way and she was very good but yeah it's it clicked for her the last couple of days and uh i mean breathtaking i was looking at the the only other six love six love final that any of us can remember is the steffi graf natalia's vareva match which was 34 minutes long in 1988 in the french open final she won six six love sets that that fortnight but three in a row from shantek to to culminate in the tournament is something else.

18:01I think she's the first player in the Open Era to win a slam, first woman in the Open Era to win a slam with a six-love set in the semi and the final. It's extraordinary. I mean, as soon as you, yeah, Vareva's name being mentioned is like a tennis bogeyman. You could sort of like, and you... And you don't want Anisimo to come that. Exactly, exactly. Her name doesn't deserve to be synonymous. She won, I think, 20 doubles titles across women's and mix. She was a former one, number five, but ultimately, that is what most people know her for. And I was thinking it's a weird thing in sport that in many ways, if Anna Simova had lost 7-6 in the third to Sabalenka, we'd all be saying, what a tournament.

18:38And, you know, can she kick on at the US Open? Because she's shown us she can go toe to toe with the very best. Well, she beat Sabalenka. And yet, you know, there's a fear. And the press conference did ease that fear a little bit. But there is a fear that she comes off this. And there's a bit of a rebuilding job that needs doing, which, you know, there shouldn't be in many ways. She's just achieved this incredible thing. I think on Shviontek as well, what's interesting, you know, now we've had, what, nine different winners in the last nine Wimbledon's. Is she just another one of those nine? Like, does she slip back into being a, oh, remember that year when Shviontek was great on grass?

19:15Because she's very different from all those players, obviously. She's not a Vondrosseva, she's not a Krojcikovic. They were kind of bolts from the blue. She's not that in a wider sense, but in a Wimbledon sense, she is another shock winner. She is another player who never got beyond the quarters or really looked like a natural on it. And also, like, if this is a return to champion Svantec, we're expecting her to win the French Open next year. And would she have won Wimbledon if she'd won the French Open? Like those, I know it's days, but like in a five week long season, days are critical. Practice days are critical.

19:51And those seem to have been very critical this year in eager Svantec's success. Now, maybe she won't need them next year because of what she's accumulated on the surface this year. But can, will the Yiga Shontek ever do the channel slab and win both? Well, I think this year almost reinforces how hard she thinks it is to do. You know, the way she was talking about it after the semi, she was kind of like, I just don't really know how you do both. Was pretty much the sentiment, you know, and it makes think of what Alcaraz, which we'll get on to, is trying to do to do it back to back. Ibiza, Ibiza.

20:23Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Is that just the answer? I'm finally on board. That's the common thread there. But yeah, and I mean, you know, she's now won as many Grand Slam matches this year as Sabalenka, Sviontek, you know, which again is kind of feels mad. And I wonder, obviously we can never know. I just wonder how that final would, like would Sviontek have gone out and just destroyed Sabalenka? Or would that have been a really close? I mean, obviously we don't know. I'd love to know Sabalenka's thoughts on that. I bet she's in Ibiza. No, Mykonos. Mykonos is her thing, isn't it? Does anyone want to speculate on that completely ludicrous sliding doors?

21:05Would Fiontek have done a version of this to Sabalenka? Would it have been a completely different match? I think completely different. I think the way we've seen Fiontek play this tournament, I would have to say she likely would have won it. I think she was playing better than Sabalenka this tournament. but I think it would have looked completely different Sabalenka wouldn't freeze and understandably so she's used to these occasions I also think just comparing Zvereva who I do remember watching and Anisimova I don't expect Anisimova to kind of be remembered only for this I think she will have other moments I think she will reach other Grand Slam finals I really do You're telling me I should keep, like Matt brings his Breathe Right nasal strips to Grand Slams.

21:54I should bring the blonde hair dye to every slam. I should bring Matt. I bought it. It costs£3.49. Every Grand Slam, that is going in your luggage. So, yeah, to be clear, we're extending the pledge to any slam. Oh, excellent. I was trying to get you to commit to that yesterday. I said to Matt, are you happy for your look to be dependent on a pack of dye that costs£3.49? He was like, yeah, OK. My concern would be, because her game is so complete, OK, maybe movement aside, the rest of it's so complete. And Zvereva was never that. She's, as you say, a great doubles player. This was a bit of a surprise that she reached the final.

22:36I would worry for what happens the next time Anissimeva is in a Grand Slam final. He would. How do you not, how do you, I mean, for her sake, I hope she isn't playing Svantec next time, that she gets somebody that allows her to establish her feet in a match. Well, look, I would love Amanda Nisimov and Madison Keyes to have a chat, because we were talking about how much is Nisimov going to do a Keyes this weekend in terms of the Australian Open, where she beat Svantec and Sambalenka back to back to win it, which was what obviously Nisimov was having to try to do here. Well, if this was reminiscent of any Grandstand final in recent memory, it was very reminiscent of Madison Keyes' first Grandstand final, the 2017 US Open.

23:27Good point. The total freeze didn't show up. And look, it took many years for Madison Keyes to eventually win one, and it was absolutely no given that she would. And as much as I'm a believer in Amanda Nisimov, but it's not a given that she wins a grand slam title but it was also interesting I think to hear her talk about her serve you know she said I got to the women of final with a mediocre serve an average serve and honestly yes like I've been saying it all week like she's not been serving that well generally it's not a particularly brilliant shot for her she doesn't strike it as as cleanly as her ground strokes, for example.

24:08But it has improved kind of until this tournament, to be honest. I think she's been serving better this year than she has this tournament. So there's definitely an area there where she can still improve. And, yeah, like, I'm absolutely going to be the one who stresses, like, this is a tremendous positive tournament. You know, she started out on court 15. And she went to court 12. she went to court three you know she worked her way up from from those outside courts all the way to the final you know that's that's amazing and i bet there's definitely going to be some some scar tissue from this i'm not i'm not thinking that you just click your fingers and move on from experience like that because that was chastening and sickening and brutal it was horrible but i i do think time will will help her here and i do expect to to kind of see her back in in these sorts of moments again and just when i was at a low ebb robert mcnichol he popped up in whatsapp and said if you need a boost yvonne goulagon lost six love six one in 38 minutes to billy jean king in 1975 five years later she won the title it's gonna make me cry thank you robert Reggie popped up, being the spirit of Wimbledon just when he needed it.

25:32Oh, yeah. What a man. I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, if you're thinking as well about little warning signs, as well as the serve, I mean, from the nerves perspective, how she closed out the quarterfinal and you could argue the semifinal. You know, this isn't a player still who's kind of immune to nerves in big moments. She said that as well. Exactly. And I mean, she got through those matches, but, you know, it was pretty shaky. and again hopefully she kind of learns from that and I think yeah the final thing is so interesting as to whether as you say that you know when she gets hopefully she does get into another one whether you're thinking well that's good she's had experience but when something's like overwhelmingly a negative one how helpful that is I tend to think it still is helpful and like in my own life when I f things up I often say to myself well you were probably going to make that mistake at some point now it's happened you're not going to make it again and i think she probably you know that's healthy yeah well as long as it's not like totally catastrophic do you know what i mean and i guess but you know what i mean so i think she she's probably her way of processing it is like well whenever i played my first grand slam final this was probably a distinct possibility and i wonder if i don't know if she and coco goff are friends but i wonder if you know listening remembering what Coco Gauff had to say obviously the French Open this year wasn't her first major title but after winning it she was reminiscing about the first Royal Garros final that she played wasn't she and sort of revealing how she said I was beaten before I stepped on the court yeah and that wasn't what we heard at the time exactly was it that's quite interesting it was quite a big reveal from her I wonder if she striked me as a sort of person that would probably reach out.

27:19Yeah, exactly. And it's almost like you just need to get that first one out of the way then if that is how you're going to be. And it's different because some players say, well, actually the first one I felt less pressure because it was kind of a free hit. But clearly that wasn't the feeling today. I mean, I don't have a champion's mindset, but my attitude in Anastasia Mova's shoes in my next Grand Sam final, which I will hopefully reach, so that the£3.49's worth of hair dye doesn't go to waste would be, well, it can only be better. It literally can't be worse. It literally can only be better, like total free hit.

27:55Yeah. Could be 56 minutes, I guess, but realistically it will not be better. If you keep going, he's going to feel better. That's my sport's psychology for the day. Also, I thought we'd hired a professional. I didn't tell you this because today's been an all-around low ebb, but she was actually, she became unavailable. It was going to be me. Oh man, I wish that had happened so much. It's good that you didn't know. As if your anxiety wouldn't have been high enough. Today has not come up Matt Roberts. Wow, that might be why it happened. She's not been very well today either. Imagine if she'd won and the professional hair colourist wasn't available and you suddenly found yourself with me in a£3.49 pack of hair dye.

28:38I've done it before. I back myself. I back you. Thank you. That's not what your face 15 seconds ago was saying. Yeah, no, same. Almost as big a winner as Igor Shontek today. Potentially the guy that published an article before the final with the headline, tennis wants Grand Slam finals to be epics, so why is women's tennis not given the space? Good timing, Charlie. Yeah. I mean, it's... yeah just I mean yeah basically the article I wrote was uh yeah on basically the cap that's put on women's grandstand finals it was hooked on the fact that it's 20 years this year since the epic Venus Williams Lindsay Davenport final and it occurred to me you know it was just like that was I think it's the longest women's final ever still two hours 45 Davenport had a championship point served the match but I mean it was about as dramatic and epic as a final can be and yet it's never it's not in the pan you know it a women's final can't really be in the pantheon it just can't because five sets the length the undulations you don't get that and so because initially i wanted to do a piece just to kind of you know 20 years since let's remember this final but it felt like a good jumping off point to have that discussion and i think a final like this that we've watched today is kind of in a way supports both arguments because the critics will say well you know would we have wanted to watch another set of that like it was terrible but I think that the format really contributes to a match like this because there's an anxiety so much more quickly from a player like Anastasia Mo being like oh my gosh this was my dream and it's getting away from me and as Matt said there was a fear from about two love three love that it could be six love six love and I've got no time and you can feel it from the crowd the crowd feeling like oh my god I paid a lot of money for this and I'm this going to be done less than an hour it just adds to the pressure and anxiety that you're already feeling, that there's no time to turn it round.

30:36The reminder in your piece that Carlos Alcárez lost the first five games of his 2023 final against Novak Djokovic, that I just don't believe, this is unprovable, but I just don't believe that final would have panned out either in result or in epicness in the way that it did if they were playing best of three set. Yeah, exactly, because he knows at that point if I get broken early in the second I'm on my way to an all-time drubbing basically in a final in the same way Anna Simova would have felt that rather than feeling okay it's a set I've got I can kind of get my way back into this but yeah just bigger I mean I mean we've had these discussions before but it just is it does feel a little bit of one of those moment where you're like you need to take a step back and in a sport like tennis the idea one of the most in theory equitable sports and where you've got the biggest superstars that we're telling Serena Williams and Irina Sabalenka and whoever, you have to play a smaller format.

31:36You know, if they're talking to a women's footballer, the women's footballer would be like, yeah, that's like telling us our matches are 70 minutes or something. It's wild, isn't it, in a sport with the rich history of relative equality that tennis has, Billie Jean King and the original nine, that they play different formats. It's wild in other sports that don't have... it's just it's unthinkable in sports that don't have anywhere near the history of yeah but it's because it's basically saying like let's stick with rules set in the 19th century when women didn't have the vote i mean like that's the time period by which we are still sticking to these rules and i think tennis might almost be a victim of its own success because it established itself quicker and those formats took hold as being kind of sacrosanct in a way that in other sports maybe they didn't and they could build them from scratch a little bit more And I think if we were playing, look, my argument isn't get rid of best of five set tennis.

32:35I think the ideal is best of three sets for both first week, best of five sets for both second week from quarterfinals onwards, maybe fourth round. I don't really mind about the details there. The most important thing to me is that both sexes play the same format. but given the way tennis has evolved and the length of matches sort of going from first principles imagine you're an alien dropping from earth and you haven't seen any tennis previously and you watch an epic best of three set tennis match in a final I just don't think anyone's mind would go God I wish there was another couple of sets and another two and a half hours of this I just don't think that would be the case obviously we're conditioned by everything that has come before but I wish there was more of like a let's come at this from first principles with a clean slate and fresh eyes and do this differently.

33:30I mean it was a reminder as well because I spoke to Lindsay Davenport for the piece for her memories of that match but also about this three and five set argument and she you'll remember David the WTA finals final was best of five from 84 to 98 so she's actually played a couple of best of five matches I think her defeat to Martina Hingis in 98 is the last five set women's match. So it's not this, you know, there is some precedent for it. And I think, you know, and she said in a thing, a lot of players will say, well, a change of format midway through could be problematic. I just don't really see why necessarily, given that you can have wild undulations in match length, especially on the men's side in a tournament anyway.

34:11And you have, if you're a man and you get to the final of a tournament the week before a slam, you're jumping from a three set match to a five set match. in no time but it's hard because as you know I asked a number of the leading players about this there's very little appetite from the women players and I understand that because for them they're already mentally and physically exhausted and so saying to them do you want to do more of that doesn't really appeal but that's why it shouldn't you know it's not necessarily they're not necessarily the best people to ask on it because yeah I get from their perspective they're playing enough tennis they don't want to play more but but it should be a sort of conceptual practical question above and beyond what any individual exactly that happens to be playing at that moment in time should i mean eager shantek et al are only playing best of three now because of as you say customs that were set 100 you know 100 years ago like it's but in the set Olympics until 1984, the biggest distance women were able to compete in was 1 ,500.

35:18I mean, how crazy is that? Or that where we are at Wimbledon, until 77, I think, there couldn't be ball girls, couldn't be ball boys, and it wasn't until 85 they could be on the centre court. I mean, these things all sound ludicrous, but you would hope in 50 or 100 years it will sound as ludicrous to be saying, well, women played three, they played a different format. I mean, why? That would seem, I think that if you actually step back, it does seem crazy. I don't know what you all think about this. I personally, as much as I desperately want change, the one thing I don't want is for anybody to go, okay, we'll have a best of five set women's final.