Off season intrigue grows

0:10Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, our penultimate tennis podcast of 2025, our final tennis podcast before Christmas. How festive are we feeling, David Law? Oh, seven and a half out of ten festiveness at the moment. But, you know, thought I'd get this out of the way first and then I'm going to go the full nine. Get this out of the way before I let myself feel festive. That's a real that's a real incentive for everyone to keep listening. Matt, let's have some let's have some vibes. Well, big of you to say and sort of guarantee that it's our penultimate podcast of 2025 in the week of an emergency episode.

0:57episode. I'm feeling very on alert at the moment for emergency tennis news. Stuff does seem to be trickling through right now. But I'm feeling pretty festive. It's our last podcast. It's our penultimate until Andy Murray announces that he's coaching Carlos Alcaraz and then we'll see you on YouTube. All bets are off.

1:24That's probably where we should start, isn't it? kind of pick up where we left off from our last emergency podcast talking about the shock news that Juan Carlos Ferreira and Carlos Alcaraz would no longer be working together. For anybody that didn't hear our podcast at the time of recording, we had some reporting. Matt and David had been speaking to Spanish contacts. So there were bits and bobs of substance, but Frankly, that podcast was a lot of speculation, kind of educated speculation. We had Matt Futterman of The Athletic on the show, educated speculation based on what we know about that relationship, what we know about Carlos Alcaraz and his team set up and the involvement of his family.

2:17And also what we know about coaching relationships in general, particularly ones that are formed in childhood and have to go through a kind of evolution process as the child grows into an adult, and in this case, an adult superstar at the top of the game. Well, we now have some more solid reporting to go with that speculation, some of which renders the speculation utterly redundant and some of which somewhat confirms some of our speculation. I would say. Yeah, I think so. It doesn't strike me as like there's been a huge rift between Carlos Alcraz and Juan Carlos Ferreiro. You know, I think that was pretty evident probably in the statements that they both put out.

3:15You know, there was a lot of love there for each other in those statements. I think the reporting is hinting at more tensions between Ferreira and the Alcares camp more generally, obviously of which Carlos Alcares is very much part. But the wider Alcares camp seem to be the ones mostly sort of implicated here. reporting from Angel Garcia Muñiz who's a very prominent Spanish journalist This is why I had Matt do this section Yeah, mine would have been an interesting pronunciation, wouldn't it? Sorry Matt, go ahead He works for COPE, the radio station in Spain and I've also seen some of this reporting backed up in Clay magazine as well Carlos and his team have made significant efforts recently to establish Murcia as their operational base promoting the Alcaraz Academy where we've seen Alcaraz training this week with Flavio Caballi Caballi seemingly giving Alcaraz piggybacks around the court has been some content that I've seen dropping out of the Alcaraz Academy this week sort of pushing for that to be the base and for Ferreira to kind of relocate his team over there rather than the other way around and also kind of as Matt Futterman very much suspected a few economic expectations in this in this contract that apparently he was sort of unwilling to meet with you know I suppose the Alcraz entourage probably wanting to give him slightly less than he wanted um so that seems to be the picture that there was some disruption there uh there was also some reporting in marker that ferrero only had 48 hours to actually sign the contract that was given to him um and honestly all of this kind of reporting makes me feel worse about it you know Like, I think I think the I could kind of get my head around it if it was kind of what we were speculating in terms of Alcaraz has decided that he totally needs a new guy for this next stage of his career.

5:46And Ferreira been brilliant to get him to this point. But now he needs to kind of, you know, cut loose from that sort of father figure in Ferreira and go to someone else. And, you know, if it was sort of part of Alcarez really growing up and making that decision the best for himself, I could have understood it, I suppose. I think part of that is in here, because I think it does strike me that maybe Alcarez really, really would have fought for Ferreira, you know, if he did desperately want him to come on and if he had the power to do so. But this sort of situation, this sort of falling out with the team or tension with the team, maybe falling out is not quite right because a lot of Alcaraz's other coaches and physios and trainers are attached to the Ferraro Academy and they're staying on.

6:40So there's not been a sort of total breakdown of relations. But this element, Juan Carlos and the team and economic problems and logistical problems, I kind of just think surely you can work some of that stuff out if you're still the best guy to be the coach. So, yeah, I'm not feeling great about it a few days on. I was really shocked at the time, but trying to explain it and reason it. And now, yeah, it's not leaving a great taste. Yeah, I don't know what you think, David. I had exactly the same thoughts as Matt. After our emergency pod on, when was it, Wednesday, sort of my shock was slightly tempered by some reassuring thoughts from Matt Futterman in particular about how this might be actually a very, although sort of turbulent in the short term, in the medium to long term, quite a necessary healthy step in terms of Alcaraz's maturing from boy to man and him taking agency of his own career.

7:52You know, I'm always sort of slightly irked out by the shadowy figures in the background that seem to be pulling strings, particularly, you know, I feel more uncomfortable with female players when it's invariably sort of older men in the background. But still, you know, the men are still sort of young men with minimal experience of the world and sort of shadowy figures in the background pulling their strings always feels a bit uncomfortable to me. And I had thought, I thought it seemed really plausible that this was a step away from that sort of situation and Alcaraz taking more control of himself.

8:32But this reporting, as Matt's laid out there, kind of suggests potentially the opposite. OK, it's his father that seems to be playing a big role who, you know, that's sort of slightly different in terms of a shadowy figure. But I still instinctively see sort of overbearing parental involvement in tennis players' lives and careers as a red flag, even if the parenting question seems untoxic and unproblematic. I don't know. What do you think? Instinctively similarly, I feel. But at the same time, I do think you can read the decision in two ways. I think you could look at it as him not just wanting to go along with what Ferreiro is demanding and continue training at his base.

9:26He wants to train at his own base. He wants to train where it suits him. You know, yes, there may be influences there that are overriding Ferreiro's, but perhaps in the end it is Carlos Alcraz's decision. And he's decided, no, this is a red line for me. um it's it's an interesting one the fact that he hasn't ended up going with ferrero i think in itself is is some sign of potential strength um and an independence of of decision making i i i don't i've seen enough of them on the court over the years to think well you seem pretty reliant on this guy to me um and and i would be wary in the short term about expecting an upturn of results i mean look you can't go that much of an upturn can you given how well he's been playing 12 in a row david well that is true um and listen listen i still feel like in the long term he could he i do think he needs to be able to develop as a as a as a young man and and as a human being and be able to be more independent from Ferreira.

10:40I do think that at some point that was going to need to happen. This just feels like a wrench, like he's been wrenched out of that situation, whether it's through his own decision making or precious or whatever. And I think in the short term, we may find that he has a downwards trajectory for a bit. There is reporting, isn't there? By no means confirmed that he is looking for a direct replacement as head coach. And it's not just a case of Samu Lopez stepping up and everybody sort of taking a promotion. Victor Barber becoming the hitting partner. Here comes Pablo Carina Busta. He's still waiting by the phone, David.

11:31Which is interesting. And the other interesting thing that occurs to me about this situation is Alcaraz isn't playing a warm-up event for Australia, which, you know, fine. Nor is Yannick Sinner. But he's so much better than everybody else besides Yannick Sinner in men's tennis that this could provoke a crisis in Carlos Alcaraz. And we might not really know it until the Australian Open men's final. Because he can beat everybody else in crisis. Certainly possible. And equally, he's had runs to Grand Slam finals that weren't like that US Open. And Juan Carlos Ferreira was there. So I don't think we're going to just be able to establish cause and effect immediately and that sort of thing.

12:27But we're going to be trying. We'll be trying. That's our trade. We'll be doing it after every other day on the pod. I'll be at the front of the queue, Catherine, don't you worry.

12:40Yeah. David, I've got on the agenda here just while we're on Alcaraz, David's hair advice for Alcaraz. I don't know what that means. Please, please explain. I'm excited about this. It's been in the agenda for about five days. One day I just opened it up and that had appeared. This show is always one of our most random of the year, isn't it? Our last one before Christmas. I mean, there always ends up being enough content because tennis be tennising. But it's like straggly content. It's random. It's really hard for me as a presenter to segue from one agenda item to the next. Well, well done. this is one of the easier ones David yeah look this just dropped on me late one night I was lying in bed and it suddenly occurred to me that Carlos Alcaraz should be making his US Open buzz cut a non-negotiable at the start of every Grand Slam tournament from here on until he loses one because I find him terrifying when he does it.

13:5512 buzz cuts in a row. Yeah, I find it a terrifying look when he first does it. I think it would be the most incredible statement to the rest of the field. Here we go, lads. I'm ready. Let's go. And, I mean, look, he was as awesome as he's ever been at a tennis tournament during that US Open. I really believe that it was a great sort of marine-like statement that I am ready for battle. and I think it got in his own head and he enjoyed it. And if I were him, I'd be just doing it. Like Tiger Woods putting on a red shirt for the final round of a major, telling everybody you are about to be defeated.

14:35I'd be doing the buzz cut at the start of every Grand Slam. Well, you might have persuaded me with the Tiger Woods thing. My counter to you, David, isn't the beauty of it and potentially why it worked so well is because it was organic. and, quote, an accident the first time around. Oh, that made it entertaining. So to try and recreate it in a very confected way. Oh, I think it's an awesome statement. I genuinely think it would rattle the opposition. I think people would get used to it. Matt, do you have any thoughts on this while I prepare my next segue? way um it's okay if the answer's no i i like i like david's thinking i don't think he will do that well no and then he'll lose and then he'll wish he had anything this is this isn't making it any easier for our peril the perils of trying to establish cause and effect in australia is it we've got another thing to throw into the mix.

15:45Exactly. So it's just as important. If 2025 was the year of David asking players about vegetables, can 2026 be the year of David asking tennis players about their hair? Hashtag journalism. It's a single-use question, isn't it? So was, are you all right with carrots? Well, I mean, it needed asking. this does need asking as well to be fair but I'm not sure I'm going to be doing it we'll see okay moving on to a vaguely related topic we're going to stay with breakups Grigor Dimitrov and Danny Valvedu have parted away after 8 years together Matt I think you and I had a similar reaction to this where have those 8 years gone?

16:39It's been pretty part-time, I suppose, hasn't it? Has it? Because of Griggle's injuries? But also, Valverdeu was also working with Wawrinka a bit. That's what I was thinking. Surely Valverdeu has worked with other players in the last eight years. Del Potro, even, I think. Right. But that's what the announcement said. We've had eight years together. I was like, have you? I mean, it was at Valverdeu when I asked that, because I could imagine that he might want that to be the narrative, in a way. He's suggesting he's lying on his LinkedIn profile about his time with an employer. I know that Dimitrov has really had the feelers out looking for a big new coach.

17:21And I think I'm quite pleased about that because I think there's quite a statement to it that he doesn't see himself as in the final throes of his career. it'll be interesting to see who he ends up with because you know I don't think he's reached fruition certainly with the with one or two of the ones that I think he approached but um yeah I I think he needed I think if he's going to make another push he probably needs a another another big statement coach but no I mean to me I mean I know I know they were dividing time but But, I mean, Jamie Delgado was also coaching Grigor Dimitrov, and I didn't sort of see a big announcement about that as such.

18:06But, yeah, I mean, look, if you have been part of the team in a way, I suppose you do. Obviously, he's friends with him and cares about him. But, you know, I don't think of, oh, big news. Eight years has just ended. That's not what occurred to me.

18:25do you think he he does have a last push in him david he only needs one no i mean listen i think mary carillo thinks somebody might quote squirt out a slam could it be could it be grig or dimitro the thing is that i think he showed in the last year that his game hurts still i mean what he did to to sinner you can't erase that from memories for two sets at Wimbledon at a grand slam he's just he's taking him down um but his body is taking himself down time after time that is not I know that this was that might be slightly freakish to get that kind of injury but to keep on getting hurt and retiring from major tournaments tells you that when he pushes his body to the absolute limit something breaks down if he could sort that out I do think I do think he's not too old um but well the body would tell you otherwise depending on how often it's breaking down I don't think he's sort of declining as a tennis player I think he's he's he's a real threat still but you know and I and I think I think it would have been good for him to it it will be good for him if he gets a a coach who can really establish a direction and And I feel like Delgado and Valverdeau, certainly the last couple of years, got the best out of him using his slice.

19:54He had the best identity to his game that he's ever had. And I actually think that there was room for more improvement there, certainly with his serve. But at the same time, I don't have any faith in his body at all, I'm afraid, because the evidence suggests there's no reason to.

20:15sorry matt but i just i want more of david's takes me too i'm enjoying it this is what happens when david is quote overslept uh before before we came on air david explained that it had too much sleep last night and i genuinely don't think i've ever experienced a david law in our 18 years of knowing one another that has had too much sleep so i i just did not know how this pod was going to go, but it's magnificent. Yeah, and I would say I've underslept, so the learning here is sleep is good. Yeah. Well, you have been telling me that for years. We balance one another out. Next and final split on our agenda, slightly different one, an extremely surprising one, certainly for me.

21:07This was reported by Ben Rothenberg in his sub-stack Bounces. Naomi Osaka is leaving the agency that she co-founded with Stuart Duguid. The agency has evolved. If you're thinking, where have I heard that name recently? They are behind the promoters of the Battle of the Sexes. They also represent numerous tennis players. formerly Naomi Osaka of course Irina Sabalenka, Nick Kyrgios it was, I'll repeat, co-founded by Naomi Osaka this was her agency alongside Stuart Dugard they left IMG to form this agency it's being reported by Ben that she's returning to IMG we don't know why, Matt but leaving your own agency feels pretty dramatic to me.

22:08Yeah, very, I would say. And, you know, again, trying to draw cause and effect, like, you know, this is a time where that agency has obviously been in the spotlight more than it ever has been. It sort of garnered attention at the start of the year when they got Sabalenko, as you said. But right now, around the Battle of the Sexes and the controversy that that has provoked. You know, the timing of this decision by Osaka doesn't feel sort of totally unrelated, certainly from the outside. But at the same time, I did see reporting from Jessica Schiffer in her sub-step Hardcourt that Nick Kyrgios' podcast is moving from YouTube to Tubi, is that how you pronounce it, which has a distribution deal with his podcast production company, Hana Kuma, which is still owned by Naomi Osaka.

23:16So if you sort of think that this is a sort of Osaka totally distancing herself from Nick Kyrgios or wanting to, I'm not sure that would be entirely true. You know, there are still very much some sort of ties there, but it might be a first move. It might be totally unrelated to The Battle of the Sexes. I don't know. It's just the timing of it. Give it a year and we'll be big on Tubi. I might have learned how to say it.

23:47David's big on TikTok.

23:52Imagine when overslept David hits TikTok. they won't know what's hit them what will be clipping up is Danny Valverdeau takes and TikTok will be getting them I like Danny Valverdeau what takes have you got on this David? actually he's a lovely player he's clearly a good operator but yeah I just don't think of him as we're back on this do you? I mean I just don't i need a sarka evolve takes from you now david please well yeah i mean i that was i suppose that is immediately where my mind went you know just in terms of the the potential cause and effect um with the battle of the sexes but even so you know that is that's patrick Moritoglu and this agency that she's separated from in the last year.

24:50And that does feel quite significant on both counts. And my sense is that it's probably a good idea. But I don't, you know, I mean, look, she's obviously made an absolute fortune with this arrangement. But I think she probably would have done anyway. I think she's the most incredible athlete and person that brands want to be associated with. So I don't think there's any issues with making money. It's how you make it, I suppose, and what you want your setup to be. It's usually the other way around these days. It's usually the player breaking away from the big agency and establishing their own thing.

25:36but yeah this is this is quite interesting it does take me back to when I when we interviewed Max Eisenbud from IMG you know how little they panic when somebody leaves because they always feel like they're going to come back eventually or that that you know that they've got confidence in themselves but yeah it'll be interesting one to follow I bet Max Eisenbud and IMG are feeling pretty smug about this whatever went down like this is a massive feather in their cap isn't it massive okay that's it for part one and our breakup segment we'll be back in part two to talk about a hookup

26:22welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast and some more bits and bobs of news we are of course going to talk about some live tennis that has been happening this week. It might have escaped your notice, but the Next Gen finals has been happening. David's watched some highlights such as his diligence as a podcaster. So we will cover that, don't worry. We've also got a backhand list update and most importantly, a one point slam entry list update. But as promised, we start with news of a significant get-together in the tennis world. The announcement that Mercedes-Benz are to be a, quote, long-term sponsor of the WTA Tour.

27:10And now the WTA are using very pointedly that wording, long-term partner. Others are reporting that this is a 10-year deal and a hugely significant one financially for the WTA. We knew they were looking for a new premium partner. I think it was pretty widely known that Hologic weren't going to be continuing with their partnership. My understanding is that Mercedes-Benz are putting more money in than Hologic, as much as Hologic seemed like a very natural fit for the WTA and came along at the time and they really needed them. I think that partnership would be broadly considered a success. my read Matt on this announcement is that this seems like different gravy for the WTA this partnership yes I saw some reporting from Molly McKelvey in her substack saying that her logic was four years and worth 20 million dollars annually whereas this is thought to be worth upwards of 400 million over 10 years and you know some people are describing this as the biggest deal in women's sports history you know like this is this is a different level altogether and i think um you know a few years ago the wta laid out their plan didn't they to to award equal prize money at the combined events by 2027 and i think this kind of deal makes that much more possible and probable and that's a really and a really really encouraging thing um i think it's going to be february before we see the mercedes uh branding on on the wta events um and there's obviously there's a few wta events that already have car deals you know like stuttgart has porsche and i think lexus is is involved in quite a few wta events so um i think there's got there's some working out to do in terms of what happens with those tournaments a little bit uh but yeah we're gonna we're gonna start seeing mercedes everywhere and mercedes is a big you know i do associate tennis with mercedes as well and mercedes with tennis you know it's had that long deal with the atp didn't it very much your sort of time at the atp i think david wasn't it late 90s used to be called the mercedes super nine yeah what it used to be called that was great branding wasn't it the mercedes super nine that really had teeth like that stuck people were calling it that for a very long time very visible after it wasn't actually called that anymore that mercedes star really pops out of the net and just became something you thought of as the net yeah and look you know i'm sure i'm sure they'd have gone with a different partner if they were sticking up that you know i'm not saying they they this is a sort of necessarily a consideration But like the the kudos of that brand wanting to back the WTA in this way, I think means something and sends a real statement.

30:37And it is cool. And the look, I know there are kind of negotiations ongoing for the sort of partial merging of the ATP and WTA tours. it's all really knotty and very a lot of the sort of language around it is very corporate sort of they're starting off by merging their their marketing arms that you might hear talk about WCA and ATP ventures that's the that's the the merging element at the moment it's seen as a first step towards you know the final destination being the eventual merging of the tours although that feels a pretty long way away and the the path to that isn't is by no means fully mapped out But this first step along the path was supposed to be mapped out, I think.

31:22And the WTA are now in a very different negotiating position, a very different position of strength to the one that they were in when the terms of that deal would have first have been talked about when they were in a position of relative weakness to the ATP. And I do wonder if that'll change things. You know, the WTA can come to the table with their chest puffed out a little bit. Yeah. And just on from a Mercedes standpoint, I can't know exactly what the deciding moment was for them to decide to commit to the sponsorship. I think it's fantastic that they did. But it does occur to me that what what an amazing story to be part of.

32:07if you were the company that got them to equal prize money on the tour, even just cynically as a kind of positive PR move, why aren't more companies thinking like that? And if they are, kudos to them. Good for them. Stick your money behind something that makes a real positive message change. And so, yeah, I hope that that's where we are able to end up in a couple of years' time as a result. absolutely ATP announcement they're introducing a heat rule don't know what's taken them so long but they're doing it 10 minute breaks there will be during best of three set singles matches in 2026 incredibly similar to all intents and purposes pretty much identical to the WTA heat rule which was established 30 years ago but you know men are strong and women are weak yep I remember when the Australian Open introduced it the Australian Open in my first year there, maybe they did it because I was there and then they thought he looks like he needs heat rule 2003 the wet bulb globe temperature was talked about I remember all the chat about the wet bulb yeah I still don't really understand it.

33:37Anyway, here we are, 22 years on, and the men have seen the state that those players were in in Shanghai and various other tournaments and just thought, OK, well, now we're going to do something. Not before time. Does a wet bulb mean that humidity is factored in and it's not just raw temperature reading? That's what a wet bulb is? Yeah. OK. wasn't expecting to say wet bulb so much on this pod but there we are okay uh what should we talk about now what would you like from this there's there's no obvious segue to any of these next agenda points oh i think take your pick i think there is katherine staying with the atp should we stay with the atp okay staying with the atp then let's talk about the next gen finals how Had you forgotten they were happening?

34:35Yep, me too. They have been happening in Saudi Arabia. It's final year being hosted there in Jeddah. I believe they are looking for a new home for it. I believe that nobody quite knows what that new home will be. I thought the ATP might see Jeddah not wanting to renew their hosting of this event as a sort of opportunity to quietly put the next-gen finals to bed. But apparently not. It's going to be continuing. So in a year's time, David, you'll find yourself also watching highlights of a pointless tennis event for the sake of podcasting. Tell us everything you gleaned from your highlights. Well, I can tell you that it got me quite pumped for tennis again.

35:27you know I wasn't really expecting that David's a Fast 4 guy now we all are after the mixed doubles remember yes I do think that that has changed my outlook a bit on Fast 4 you know I now look at it slightly differently but yeah I do think the timing of this event is one of the things that is problematic in that it's just... Well, I believe it is moving next year. The plan is, if they can find a host, it's moving back to the plan is, I don't think this is announced, but the plan is for it to move to be prior to Turin next year. There's more sense to that to me. I mean, I realise it's so crowded in there, it's difficult.

36:12And look, I'd rather than move the whole thing forwards. But yeah, I mean, it's nearly Christmas. It doesn't... You're in the off-season. Yeah, I haven't been seeking out these matches to watch them live and I feel slightly guilty about that as a person who's co-hosting the tennis podcast but I need a break from the sport really in terms of watching it to get the appetite back but when I put these highlights on and saw Lerner Tien who's who's who's always a great watch you know he he's got to the final and he did actually lose his first round robbing match so he ended up having to go through the the most extraordinary of calculations in order to get there, but he did.

36:53And then he's going to face the Belgian player, Alexander Blox, whose highlights I watched several of. Because I don't know that much about him. I feel like I know who Lerner-Tien is. He's been on our screens a lot over the past year. He reached the final a year ago against Joao Fonseca. So we kind of knew a little from him there. He's had a real breakthrough year. blocks is is still outside the world's top 100 and has actually played most of his tennis on the challenger circuit he did he did qualify in cincinnati uh earlier this year so he's he's he's kind of had a couple of tour wins and lots and lots of challenger match wins but i sort of thought you know i don't think i've really seen much of him play you know i just like to i just like to watch a guy away from the results and just get a sense of who they are as a tennis player and I mean, he's 6 '4".