Sinner survives, Fonseca fires and Saudi footprint grows

36:00It was just Belinda Bencic is back. Tennis moves quickly. you know, she's back to where she was. But this is a pretty remarkable season she has ended up having, albeit with, you know, a little bit of a lull in there, but obviously had a fantastic Wimbledon as well, right in the middle of the season there. What a comeback it's been in 2025 from Belinda Bencic. Totally. Yeah, it started at the back end the last year, didn't it? When she played some ITFs, you know, she took that route, which we also saw Alina Svitolina, take um after coming back from having a child and it you know it it does seem that that has been a sensible route sort of back into the sports to start at that lower level and and then work your way up and yeah Bengshik's brilliant at the start of the season brilliant at Wimbledon and and still going strong you know even after what's been a very very long season you know her her tennis has stood up her physicality has stood up it's it it's incredibly impressive and look in this in this final she played the big points so well um against noskova you know 6-2 6-3 looks incredibly straightforward on the score line but noskova had 10 great points there in this match and benchik saved them all uh really brought it when she needed to and had battled through a three setter over Mukovo as well earlier in the tournament.

37:29And yeah, I think she's still playing this week in one of the 250s. I think she's perhaps wants that top 10 finish. I think she can still get that. But no matter where she finishes, it's been a remarkable season. And, you know, to think as well, she played the Tokyo final 10 years ago to Bencic and lost it to Agnieszka Ravanska. you know there's real real longevity to Bengtjic's career even though I don't think she's even 30 yet is she you know she's really been around a long time at this sort of level for a long time and she's also won an Olympic gold in that in that stadium in Tokyo she seems to really like playing there so yeah it's it's going to be interesting to see whether sort of she can make another step next year and and you know probably do the one thing that she hasn't done yet which is win a grand slam title um you know she's kind of been there or thereabouts at at every other level of the sport um and just a word on noskova who again was was a massive beneficiary of the decimation of that of that draw she had a buy a walkover and a retirement on route to the final here in oscar but i do think just worth shouting out the season she's had as well because i i think she's made some nice improvements she's up into the top 20 now rising nicely but she's got a finals problem she's she's one and six i think now in in finals she sort of feels like she maybe should have a bit more out of her career than she's got in terms of number of titles but i'm going to be interested to see whether whether she can start sort of finishing these tournaments off next year.

39:19Yeah, you made a big Noskova prediction at our live show in Wrexham last week, or a medium-sized Noskova. I was asked for a big prediction and I made a medium-sized Noskova prediction. That is what the people of Wrexham wanted. They were already satisfied because they had a big backhand list announcement. In fact, a whole restructuring, which we probably don't have time for right now, but I can reveal that Victoria Mboko is now officially a backhand list member, despite losing out to Elena Rabakina this week. The week giveth and it taketh away. It was the wins over Leila Fernandez and Victoria Mboko in Tokyo that enabled Elena Rabakina to qualify for the WTA finals.

40:09And she made it clear that that was her goal, David, in going to Tokyo by immediately retiring, withdrawing from the tournament. What do we think of that? I mean, look, normally I would think, oh, that's not very nice, is it? But you can understand it from her perspective. She's been on this mission to try to qualify for the WCA finals. And it was a bit of a long shot a while ago, you know, and she's managed to catch up all these points and she knew what she needed to do going in. I think a lot of people probably would have done the same in her position and give herself that little bit of extra time to be fresh for the finals.

40:53I don't hold that one against her if indeed that's what happened and it seems fairly likely that it is. Taking advantage of the luxury that maybe Lorenzo Mazzetti won't have access to. in Guangzhou the ATP 250 event there Anne Lee won the title she beat Lulu Sun 7662 in the final so that wraps up the week in terms of events and titles and trophies there was a lot of news though last week on particularly the ATP side of things and the announcement of a new Masters 1000 event in Saudi Arabia upcoming in 2028 caused a lot of ruffles, a lot of ripples around the tennis world. And that is what we'll be discussing with The Athletic's Charlie Eccleshare in part two.

41:49Welcome back to part two of The Tennis Podcast, where we are joined now by The Athletic's Charlie Eccleshare, making our composition of podcasters that are on holiday during this recording 50%. Charlie, thank you very much for interrupting and gave him Monopoly to be with us. Yeah, I'd just lost, so I need to pick me up, so it's fine. Yeah, that green set is just a poison chalice, I tell you. So expensive to build on. Was the age of competitors that you lost to, the average age? No, they were actually, all the youngsters were out the way. So it was just me. Adult Monopoly. Yeah, it was very much Adult Monopoly, and my sister got sidetracked by her baby.

42:31my mum doesn't play with us anymore because we're too ruthless and brutal so it was me my dad and my brother old-fashioned uh going head to head uh and yeah I went out first but you know they're they're still at it so I at this point we don't know who's won I remember my parents banning monopoly yeah at one point when um my brother and I were were younger I think because I couldn't handle the consequences of my inevitable defeat. Yeah, my brother once stormed out of the cottage we were staying at. It's tough. There's always one, isn't there? There's always one. Right. Charlie, you've joined us to talk about a very important, very big news story that broke over the course of last week in the world of the ATP.

43:21A story that you and Matt and James have covered extensively and brilliantly in The Athletic, the news that Saudi Arabia will be hosting a Masters 1000 event in the future, the worst kept secret in tennis. The ATP and SURJ, am I allowed to call them SURJ? S-U-R-J? I'm going to go with SURJ. They are the sports division of Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund, or PIF, which is an acronym that we're all very familiar with now in the tennis world. I'm sure we'll be really familiar with Surge soon. It even fired me to St. James' Park on Saturday as I was watching Fulham lose. I also had Piff branding around the stadium.

44:07I wasn't going to mention that. Can't get away from it. I was going to spare you. Oh, dear. So the ATP and Surge confirmed last Thursday that there will be an ATP Masters 1000 event held in Saudi Arabia from 2028. It will be a week-long, non-mandatory event with a 56-player draw, most likely held in February between the Australian Open and the Sunshine Swing. It is the latest in a long line of big swings from PIF in the tennis world, including, of course, the three-year deal to host the WTA finals and, of course, the Six King Slam, which saw its second edition this year. just a couple of weeks ago.

44:54This announcement came less than a week after Holger Runa's horror injury in Stockholm and all the concern that sparked from players and commentators about the length of the season and the demands on players. It also came in the same 24-hour period that three of the four quarterfinals in Basel ended in retirement. I genuinely, when this story broke, Charlie thought it was satire, only to then very quickly remember that it's 2025 and we live in an age where satire is dead because satire is now real life and that's where we are. In terms of timing of this announcement that's what it feels like to me.

45:38Yeah, I mean for me satire was dead with the Saudi Maternity Fund announcement earlier in the year. That was the kind of point at which it felt like all bets were off. I mean, this has been rumbling on for ages. And I first got wind of this in April. I think it was during Madrid. And basically, the details haven't really changed since then. You know, it was the same thing, same size of draw, non-mandatory, week long. I mean, obviously it goes way further back. And if you think back a year or so when, you know, there was talk of the Saudi Masters, the talk then was that it was going to be in January and then the Australian Open weren't happy about that.

46:18And that prompted the whole premium tour discussion. But yeah, this iteration has been in the works for a long, long time. I think they wanted, ideally, to be making the announcement with confirmation of when it was going to be. And, you know, to be able to say we've got this brand spanking new event. It's going to be here. It's going to be great. Obviously, that hasn't happened. Those negotiations are too complicated. So instead, it was announced with it's going to happen. We don't yet know when it's going to be. February seems the most likely. And they're slightly framing it as the ATP or anyway, you know, don't think of it as an additional event.

46:54it's going to be part of this whole calendar optimisation, I think is the phrase they use, you know, where they work out, OK, how does the calendar work? And this is just a part of that. And they've got until the end of next year before they need to finalise, I think when it is, because it's not going to be until 2028. But yes, the timing of it is not great from an optics perspective, vis-a-vis player welfare and that sort of thing. as you say this this is the latest iteration of you know saudi arabia have signposted for a long time that this is what they want this is their intention i think in spring of last year it sounded like the plan plan a was to have a combined atp yeah wta 1000 event slotted into the calendar before the australian open um what's changed why is that not what's happening well i think there was a lot of pushback certainly from tennis australia and you know the grand slams um and i think they they had to be realistic about what they could do because as it stands i believe they can do this event within one week so you're only talking about one week of the calendar that's a lot more straightforward than you know obviously for them they would love to just make it a two-week thing but there is there's very little wiggle room and everyone doesn't really want everyone everyone thinks and this is human nature i guess but everyone thinks well why should i be the one to have to sacrifice why should i be the one to have to move throw in as well the fact that we're talking about in that february period it's uh dubai it's doha qatar um and these are not nations necessarily that really want to be pandering to saudi arabia um you know there's a lot of friction there and so i think it got to the point where it was like well this is this isn't really going to happen um and so they've had to you know this is a you know you could phrase you could frame it as a bit of a compromise really because as you say Catherine it was ideally going to be this big combined 1000 all single dancing kicking off the season it's not quite that but it is still a very significant moment in the kind of entrenchment of Saudi Arabia in tennis and what I think is the most rewarding thing is how now and this exact is exactly what one of the purposes of this sort of thing is how normalized it is to the point where I feel like the human rights concerns now barely make a ripple.

49:18Galdensi and Danny Townsend, the surge representative, they weren't asked about this in the briefing call, which I think speaks volumes because, and it's exactly the same, Matt, you mentioned Newcastle United there, you know, remember this was a huge deal four years ago when the PIF bought out Newcastle. Now, four years on, there's kind of fatigue about this sort of thing and people, you just shrug your shoulders and like, wow, this is what it's like now. And that's kind of the whole point. Yeah, maybe that's why they've gone with this timing. They've gone, OK, if we can make this controversy about the length of the season and the number of the events and the demands on the players, that's a preferable controversy to human rights abuses.

50:00I mean, I'm sort of being glib, but maybe I'm not joking. I mean, it definitely, yeah, that's definitely kind of the way it's played out, because I do think of course those I mean of course those are totally legitimate concerns but yeah there is a much bigger picture here that goes beyond um you know the tennis calendar and the kind of jostling for position which of course is really important to people like us but yeah there are far wider issues about how deeply embedded now Saudi is within the sport I mean it's pretty huge not just the tournaments the strategic sponsorships uh and now you know we're talking what a week before the WTA finals um that goes back there and so there's a huge you know that's kind of the flagship WTA event and I do wonder as well how much the ATP and I and I really don't think this should be the case but I wonder if it's unconscious or otherwise that I think the women's event because most people are aware of the issues uh the human rights record towards women and so a WTA event gets even more attention whereas the ATP maybe on some level people don't make such a big deal out of it.

51:07But yeah, I just I do think that that how sidelined that as a concern is has been pretty striking to me. There's going to be massive impact, isn't there, Ron? I mean, you mentioned the other Middle Eastern events, Doha, Doha, Abu Dhabi, Dubai as well. But I mean, David, you mentioned Rotterdam last week, like there's going to be massive consequences for so many events during that portion of the season. Charlie, you did a great piece with Diego Schwartzman talking about the impact specifically, the potential impact on South America that I want to talk about. But David, there are going to be so many events affected here and it sounds, I mean, as Charlie said, they've announced this before the fine print has been finalised.

51:59Negotiations are still underway, but it sounds like there's going to be some sort of financial compensation made available by Saudi Arabia to kind of mitigate the fallout and hopefully sort of quieten the consternation from those other events. Does that sound about right? I mean, I think one of the points is that the idea is that the ATP is still saying that this is part of their calendar optimisation. It is not just about welcoming a 10th Masters series event in and taking Saudi Arabia's money. Although the degree to which the red carpet appears to have just been laid down to come on in is quite startling to me.

52:48Maybe it's been naive to think of anything else would be happening. But I've just been reading Ben Rothenberg's newsletter in which he's interviewed Carl Hale, the tournament director of Toronto. And they're talking about a buyback fund where it seems that there may be as many as five ATP events that are effectively bought out so that they can be removed. And those are 250s and 500s. Now, I assume those tournaments are okay with that. Otherwise, that then becomes very, very awkward. I'm not quite sure how you do all of that. But I mean, to my mind, the existing Master Series events are diluted somewhat by having a 10th one come in.

53:38And they're already struggling to get players to appear, the very top players. Sinner and Alcrast didn't play in Canada this year. I think that sort of thing is only going to get worse, particularly as we've seen, they're quite happy to do a three day exhibition in Saudi Arabia, take an absolute wheelbarrow full of money for very little effort and time and energy and not worry about some of these events if they want to create a bit more of a gap. I mean, it just seems to me, Charlie, that it just throws another element into this calendar that we already have a massive problem with and players are speaking out openly to say so.

54:20Yeah, I mean, Gaudenzi was talking in this conference call, which I couldn't attend because, yeah, I was on holiday, but I've listened to it. Monopoly. Yeah, I was on this Monopoly marathon, Monopoly camp. but yeah he was basically talking about the fact that there are going to be he sees it as in February now it's kind of two swings that he was talking about the sort of Middle Eastern swing which obviously Saudi Arabia Masters will be the kind of headline of and then the South American one which yes as you say obviously leaves American tournaments and those like Rotterdam either peripheral or non-existent and also clear I mean what's going to be the biggest swing is it going to be the South American one which has all the pedigree the heritage the fan fervor or is it going to be the one that pays the players a huge amount of money and you know he was asked about prize money and you know said it's well you know it's in line with with ATP events you know I'm sure it hasn't been confirmed at this point but I would be stunned if there weren't vast vast sums of prize money involved in the same way as there are at the WTA finals and look you know a I'm sure the players will be saying, finally, an event that gives us the proportion of revenue that we want and that we deserve.

55:36And they're going to be very hard sums to turn down, I would have thought, because money is not really an object here for the PIF and surge. it's um it's a it's a confirmation of the the shift in the economics of of tennis and and the atp in terms of you know it used to be a big part of mandatory being being a mandatory tournament which the 1000s with the exception of monte carlo up until now have have all been that is part of what those mandatory tournaments pay their huge license fee for, for being guaranteed to get those top-level players. That's been a positive, valuable thing. For Saudi Arabia, for this tournament, they want it to be non-mandatory because that permits them then to pay appearance fees, doesn't it?

56:31And guarantee getting those top players, which being a mandatory event doesn't anymore. That's been proven by Al Kraz putting out a Shanghai. What happened in Canada with a paltry field for a 1 ,000 mandatory in terms of those top players is pretty toothless now. And what the ATP have created is a system where really only money talks, is what it seems to me. Yeah, and they become even more toothless when you've got an event, as you say, that comes in like this and can pay vast sums. because then, you know, there might be the odd player who thinks, well, Indian Wells, even Indian Wells becomes a little less of a priority because it might be, well, I'll go and do this one where there are far more sums on offer and for only a week's work, crucially.

57:20So you can see why it's going to be really appealing. But yeah, just to go back as well on the South American point, I mean, when I interviewed Diego Schwartzman, it absolutely wasn't, you know, with this in mind, this wasn't even known at that point. It was a kind of general interview, but that was the thing that was most striking when we spoke, was about his fear that South American tennis was already being sidelined and that this was going to only compound it. And it's hard to see how that won't be the case, really. I mean, I guess, you know, it's already not somewhere where you get all the top players, that's true.

57:51But the eyes of the tennis world will be on Saudi Arabia, especially if, as seems possible, if not likely, that they'll be able to attract Al-Khraz and Sinner. Because as we've seen, despite their pack calendars, their fitness concerns, they'll go and play the Six Kings Slam. Now, as you said, Charlie, the sports washing of it all isn't going anywhere as much as the ATP and PIF and Surge would like it to. And I know we repeat ourselves on this, but the aim of sports washing is to normalise. The playbook is to ride out the initial wave of backlash until everyone grows tired or feels like they've done their bit by pointing out the issues in the first place and everybody can move on and pat themselves on the back.

58:41But nothing has changed in terms of Saudi Arabia's human rights record. In fact, some organisations suggest the restriction of freedoms there is worsening. This is from one of your pieces this week in The Athletic, Charlie. Saudi Arabia received a score of 9 out of 100 in this year's Freedom of the World report by non-profit organisation Freedom House. That is the same score it received in 2022 and 2023. It ranked 132nd out of 148 countries on the 2025 global gender gap list. Human rights groups, including Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, have criticised Saudi Arabia's record on freedom of expression, including the criminalisation of same-sex relationships, the personal status law, and the personal status law which requires women to obtain a male guardian's permission to marry.

59:34In November, during the first of the three WTA finals to be held in Riyadh last year, Saudi nationals and experts said the crackdown on dissenting voices was stricter than ever under the de facto rule of the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, which began in 2017. Thousands of political prisoners are under arrest in Saudi Arabia for speaking out against the absolute monarchy and government. In the US State Department's most recent annual report on human rights practices for Saudi Arabia, It lists what it calls credible reports of various human rights violations, including arbitrary or unlawful killings, arbitrary arrest and detention, crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or intersex persons.

1:00:26And I guess, Charlie, you're going to be heading out to Saudi, aren't you, for the WTA finals? I guess we're going to have to buckle up and prepare ourselves to hear a lot of well-meaning top WTA players telling us what a great experience they're having of the country. Yeah, I'm not actually, I went last year and then Matt's going this year, we're flipping it, so I'll do ATP finals, he'll do WTA. But going last year was an incredibly eye-opening experience for me and I came on and spoke to you guys about it after. It really, yeah, I found it very sad and challenging. I mean, in a very different way from, because the thing that the argument most people make is you've got to go there to find out for yourself, which is a really, really short-sighted argument because going there as a white Western journalist, yeah, I was treated incredibly well.

1:01:23Of course I was. Do not judge a country on how they treat white Western journalists. That is not how you judge it. what what you should do if you want to learn about it is speak to people who live there or have lived there and no longer can or have relatives there and look some people love the fact that now it has opened up in inverted commas in the sense that um you know there are things like rock concerts there's this incredible uh football league that you've got cristiano ronaldo and you've got starbucks and women can drive and all of these things that's come at a huge cost because as you said a lot of those people i spoke to last year said the crack down is kind of more brutal than it's ever been and there's a murderous dictator who runs that country and bs there's no Mohammed bin Salman there's no getting away from that um and nothing has really changed um and I found it really not surprising in some ways but it was quite depressing because obviously and that's the thing as well it's like oh but uh you know the only way we can make change is by engaging with these countries but you know the people who were then asked about it, i.e.

1:02:25the players, are on the payroll of that country. Are they going to speak out? I wouldn't have thought so. If they're in a country where they're earning millions of dollars and now on the WTA side, they're having their maternity leave paid for by that country, would you speak out against that country that was paying you that and was sort of securing your livelihood in some respects? Again, I wouldn't have thought so. It seems very unlikely. I mean, I'm curious even to So, you know, as I said before, with the lack of questioning and talk about it on the ATP side, will it even be asked to the same extent at the WTA finals?

1:03:00I hope so. But like you said, that fatigue sets in. And I thought, you know, Coco Goff was a really good example of this last year, where she was the only one really who engaged on these topics in the opening, the sort of pre-tournament press conferences, talked about it and said, you know, if there isn't real change, I wouldn't come back here. well firstly there hasn't been any real change and she's going back and that's fair enough I'm not you know I'm not calling her out but you know and especially not her because she was the only one who really engaged on these topics but by the end of the tournament which she'd won her quotes were all about how amazing a time she'd had um and you know she couldn't have been hosted better again it does not surprise me one bit of course those players were hosted incredibly well and also there's that context of that the year before had been this complete disaster at that event and suddenly they're in somewhere where they're really well looked after facilities are good etc etc that will be the case with the the Saudi masters uh men's event as well I'm sure and I will be keeping a very close eye out I hope people are as well you know who's going to be doing the building of all this infrastructure that needs doing in double quick time and in what conditions because we saw that with the Qatar World Cup there have been reports with infrastructure projects in Saudi as well of pretty horrendous conditions for migrant workers because it's an incredibly ambitious country.

1:04:17We hear about Project 2030 where this whole point is to diversify their economy away from oil. And so there are lots of these projects popping up. They're going to host a Football World Cup. And I wonder even how much by then, by the time of this event in 2028, how much of an issue will be then and how much the players will be asked about it. I think for them, the priority will be the fact that they'll feel they're most probably getting paid what they feel they should and that the other events don't pay them. And it's for that reason going to be a hugely popular event, I would have thought. The very top players will.

1:05:04But, you know, is Sebastian Baez going to get an appearance fee in Saudi? But I think the prize money will be will be really good. um yeah you know that it there's no reason why it can't be across the board really good as i say like money's no issue so you want this to be for them just you know the best event it can possibly be um and it just builds that that sort of goodwill um towards the country of like we're so well looked after here you know there should be more of it you know i'm sure a lot of the players will come waiting there should be more events here because nowhere else are we this well looked after or are we this well paid?

1:05:42And if that can be across the board, then all the better for them, I think. Important final question before we let you get back to spectate the end of the Monopoly game. Does this spell the end of the Six Kings slam? Do you think we've seen the last of those AI-generated images of what I can only assume was supposed to be Yannick Sinner and Friends. That's the real tragedy here. I mean, what a shame that would be. We might be gaining, but look at what we're losing. Yeah, exactly. It does put it into context. I don't know. I mean, I guess we'll have to see on that. I mean, there'll be at least a couple more iterations, won't there?

1:06:30Because this won't start until 2028. But don't underestimate or don't ever put a cap on kind of the ambition because yeah I mean if money's unlimited I suppose yeah I mean you can have it all kind of yeah and you can and with something like the six king slam you can sort of curate it as you want you can guarantee the big names um so yeah like they and tennis as well and this was put to me by an expert on Saudi Arabia it's like tennis like golf is such an appealing sport for a country like Saudi Arabia because it's such a kind of boardroom sport it's a lot of very like wealthy individuals are into tennis and golf and they're a lot of the people who might be dealing with Saudi Arabia or might have you know considerations about whether to deal with it and so the more you can legitimize it the more for them it just becomes and we should say as well because you know most countries including our own have no scruples about having big trade agreements with Saudi Arabia and I should say as well I think shouldn't underestimate I mean you guys know about this far more than I do but the live golf thing in a lot of the conversations I've had people have said to me you know don't underestimate the live golf aspect all of this because I think tennis power brokers across the board did look at that and were really spooked by well what if they just come in and basically take over the sport far better to work with the Saudis because you know this this investment into sport is clearly a big priority for them much better to sort of cooperate and we can work together um rather than risk you know a sort of live golf situation in tennis and so I think that's partly why they have been so cozy with them and like you say David sort of rolling out the red carpet um because that that's very much the choice that tennis across the board both tours throughout really has has taken um so i think that's like another factor to weigh into all of this gosh it's fascinating um a lot of it's pretty grim but it is fascinating um and i really appreciate your your time on it charlie no anytime keep up the good work thank you yeah and thanks for having me on welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where there is a lot of tennis to look ahead to this week i've just glanced up at my tv screen and grigal dimitrov is is on a tennis court hitting balls as we speak um just before we come on to that some sad news this week um john John Beddington died at the age of 83.

1:09:17John enjoyed a long, successful career in tennis administration. That included a lengthy stint as executive vice president of Tennis Canada between 1979 and 1995. He co-founded the Masters Tennis event at the Royal Albert Hall in 1997. and it was there that, well, I mean, I met him as well, but David spent a lot of time with him at that event over the years. He raised nearly£2 million for charitable causes within tennis and he staunchly believed that tennis could be a force for good. He was also a great ally of tennis journalists. And, yeah, David, you knew him quite well. Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, an absolutely lovely man.

1:10:03and when I left the ATP in 2002 I'd spent three or four years as part of my role there working on the Champions Tour traveling around and the culminating event of that Champions Tour was the one at the Royal Albert Hall which John was the tournament director of and was the real jewel in the crown really of the Champions Tour and I always got on well with him always admired how he his ambition to put on a great event and to to really make it special he was he was as enthusiastic as as all the fans who came from the door through the doors to to watch and and that melded perfectly with me really and when I left the ATP he he was good enough to to give me a job we worked at the the Masters Tennis there for for many years you and I Catherine and I just used to love being around somebody with that degree of enthusiasm for the sport and that manifested itself everywhere you went and and he was friends with a lot of players a lot of people behind the scenes and a lot of journalists and that is rare you know it's there's often a lot of uh caution and suspicion around with tournament directors towards journalists and John wasn't like that he understood the value so So I'm biased because of that.

1:11:18But generally speaking, I just really wanted to pay our respects to him and pay tribute to him and to his friends and family who've lost a wonderful man. Yeah, thanks, David. Lovely, lovely tribute. Looking ahead to tennis this week. In fact, let's look a bit further than that. First up, I mentioned earlier the big Yannick Sinner news for the Davis Cup finals and the slightly less big, but potentially even more shocking Alejandro Davidovic for Keener news. The Davis Cup finals teams were announced this week. Alcaraz is in. Alexander Zverev is also in. He's playing the finals for the first time.

1:12:03Having said, I think, albeit a while ago now, that he wouldn't play the Davis Cup in its new format. Well, here he is. He's going to play the finals in Bologna. Which, you know, in terms of attracting top players, Matt, is a big deal for the event. Especially in light of the massive body blow inflicted by Yannick Sinner's announcement this week. I mean, look, Alcaraz being in is huge. He does seem to be pretty committed to that event, which is fantastic. But given the new location of this event in Bologna, in Italy, this is, would it be fair to say, devastating for the Davis Cup? Yeah, I think so.

1:12:51If they could have had one player there, you know, I think that would have been Yannick Sinner. You know, the biggest name in the country that's hosting the finals. And look, there were myriad reasons why the Davis Cup changed format, you know, back in, I think it was announced in 2018. It changed the first time in 2019. Lots of reasons. But one of the reasons was to try and get the top players to play it. And I would, I don't know the stats on this. I would be interested in the data about whether more top players, maybe you make that cut off as top 10 or whatever, are playing the Davis Cup now compared to previous years.

1:13:37I think we have seen quite a lot of top players at this event over the last few years. However, if you're not getting the biggest name there, then something is up. Because as David said, there's not an injury here. As much as Yannick Sinner can say, it's about his preparation for the next season. It hasn't impacted his season in terms of the fact that he's won the Australian Open the last two years. It's not a priority for him. That is the conclusion here, that the Davis Cup, even in Italy, when they're the defending champions, is not a priority for Yannick Sinner. and that is pretty damning for an event that is self-branded as the World Cup of tennis you know if it was the real World Cup it would be the priority and I think so I absolutely am disappointed in Yannick Sinner you know I really really am and maybe that's hypocritical you know we're asking for players to take breaks and have rest but I am disappointed in this decision by Yannick Sinner even if it's a responsibility he didn't necessarily ask for in terms of Italy hosting the Davis Cup finals.

1:14:54I think without injury, he should be stepping up and playing for his country, certainly putting himself forward in the initial team. But it does speak to the fact that the Davis Cup, even with this change has not become a premium must play event in the tennis world even one it doesn't really have that much cut through outside of tennis you know like very few casual sports fans are gonna really register what's happening in the davis cup finals in a few weeks and that that in itself i think is the biggest damning criticism of of the new format you know like we've lost so much in terms of what the old Davis Cup have had we at least needed to get something back and what we needed to get back I think was prestige and grandeur and cut through and all of that and it doesn't feel like we're getting that and Yannick Sinner not playing it is is another indication that we haven't gained all that much and it's yeah it's just sad because I love the Davis Cup and Yannick Sinner being there, potentially playing Carlos Alcaraz in an environment like of which we don't get at tennis, you know, with loads of fervent home support would have been extraordinary.

1:16:21And there's no chance of that because Yannick Sinner is not playing because he doesn't think the Davis Cup is a must play event. And yeah, it's just a bit sad, really.

1:16:34this week in tennis we have the lesser spotted one week long masters 1000 in paris as i said grigol dimitrov is inexplicably making his comeback in the final week of the season i can only assume it's because he's been champing at the bit and he's missed it so much but the timing does seem a little bit odd anyway here he is taking on giovanni and peshi perikar you just Mr. Return. Everybody's back where they belong. The event has moved to the La Défense Arena for the first time, a sort of improved facility. The centre court at Bercy was great, but the facilities outside the centre court were severely lacking.

1:17:18I think this is a massive upgrade in those terms. They still have the bizarre low camera angle, which really foreshortens the court, which I find very odd. I always assumed that was a consequence of some sort of structural issue about the venue, but maybe they consider it a key part of their identity. We have a potential for Rindeknesh against Vashiro in round two. And I think Rindeknesh has done his bit and one is round one match. So we're halfway to a Rindeknesh-Vashiro rematch, which I would very much sign up for. We've got Shapovalov, Fonseca round one. Jaume Munar against Daniel Medvedev.

1:18:02Talon Greekspor against Gabriel Diallo. And we've already had a win for Flavio Caboli over Thomas Mahatch. Al Graz is the top seed. He's in the top half with Felix Auger-Eliassime, Kasper Rude, Taylor Fritz, Alex Duminor. Yannick Sinner is the second seed and he's in the bottom half with Musetti, Medvedev, Zverev and Shelton. Are we looking forward to this week? How much energy do we all have for Paris? How pumped are we? I do like this tournament a lot. I think mainly because it is the one week. I mean, I think they do put on a great event. They get atmosphere. They get fans. There's such a fervent love of the sport in Paris.

1:18:52in France generally, and it's a slightly different crowd as well. So I'm looking forward to it. But I'm afraid the sheer amount of tennis now is becoming ever more a problem generally. People just seeming like they're on their last legs, or some being okay and others not, and you're not necessarily seeing skill levels decide who wins. And I hope we go a week without quite the number of retirements we've had in Basel, for instance. But I don't hold out a great deal of hope. Well, maybe that's good news for Grigor Dimitrov because he's on his first legs. I mean, not big picture. That's what we're looking at.

1:19:38Sort of in the context of his career, probably his latter stage legs. Last time we saw him. You know, in terms of the last few months, brand new legs. and that's a good draw isn't it Pesci Perry Carl first match for your comeback let's be real about this can't return well he certainly shouldn't expend that much energy in that match you wouldn't have thought who's going to win Paris Matt little Paris prediction I mean probably Sinner or Alcraz right I mean I think I think the last five events that they've both been in the draw of they've ended up meeting in the final. And there was also a week where they played different events, Beijing and Tokyo, and ended up winning in the same week.

1:20:26Look, I want to see Sina Alcaraz. I want to see some of these Sina bits of variety that he's been trying to deploy. Is Medvedev in the same half of the draw as Mute? That's my new Sina Alcaraz. I want to see that in Paris. Right, yeah, that's a good shout. Mute is playing Apelka. despite the fact that Pelka gave a walkover in qualifying. He then got a lucky loser spot. Probably will have the audacity to be sort of pissed off about Paris' organisation or something. Lucky to be there, mate. Lucky to be there. The WTA still has some 250 events this year in Hong Kong, Zhangji and Chennai. But of course, the WTA finals starts this week on Saturday in Riyadh.

1:21:14We will have a preview show on Friday once the draw has been done and the groups have been announced. We know the pots, the pots that sort of determine what happens with the draw. So we have pot one, Saovalenko and Svantec. So we know they'll be in opposite groups. Pot two, Goff and Anisimova. Pot three, Rabakina and Pagula. And pot four, Paolini and Keyes. Matt what's the dream group for you for Amanda

1:21:49interesting question I haven't hadn't actually thought about it I know people think that I think about these things all the time but I do have a life people in Wrexham definitely think that you think about these things all the time I'll come back to you with a definitive answer on our preview show on Friday. The key line is, and this is Mova's proven, she can beat everyone. So there is no dream draw. She can handle anything coming at her. Touche, touche. In the doubles, the eight qualified teams are Siniakova Townsend, Irani Paolini, Dabrowski Routliff, Kudimatova Mertens, Andreva Schneider, which is interesting because, of course, Andreeva, for whatever reason we still don't know, didn't fight for that last singles place in the line-up.

1:22:42We had talked about that and I'd overlooked at the time the fact that she was going to get into the doubles, so it was never going to be a week of rest. How ludicrous of me to think that rest might have been on anyone's agenda in tennis. So Andreeva and Schneider into the doubles field, Shea Nostopenko, Babosh Stefani and Asia Mohamed and Demi Schurz, which is a good doubles field. And as I say, we'll be back on Friday with our preview show for the WTA finals. So not long to wait until our next podcast. We have a mascot for this podcast. That mascot is Bianca. I know Bianca. Bianca's a three-year-old black and tan coonhound.

1:23:29owned by Mike Clary. She was born in Portland, Oregon. I think I know Bianca. We've met Bianca before, haven't we? Yeah, I don't forget a Bianca. I picked her up from her breeder, says Mike, at eight weeks and we are inseparable. She now lives in Calgary, Alberta. That is what A-B means, isn't it? Alberta. And she joins me in Palm Desert, California during the winter months. What a life, Bianca. That is really living the dream. She loves being in the desert during the BNP Paribas tournament in March. We will be there in 2026 and Bianca would love it if Catherine would pop by our house to take her for a walk.

1:24:11Oh, my God. Mike, I'll be in touch.

1:24:19That sounds fantastic. I'm looking at a picture of Bianca on the beach with, I think, a ball in her mouth. Very upright, happy tail. What a dog. Lovely, long, strokeable ears. And if you're watching on our YouTube, you'll be seeing a picture of Bianca. Lucky you. So thank you, Mike. And hello, Bianca and TBC on Indian Wells and the dog walk. Hello to our mascots, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, let's have some shout outs. We have Anna Bendo from Dublin, Ohio. Hi, Anna. Hello, Anna. A Dublin in Ohio. Fun. Well, Matt and I have been to the other Dublin together, but not this Dublin.

1:25:15Didn't know of its existence until Anna Bendo told us about it. like Anna Bondar and Anna Bogdan Anna Bogdan Anna Kalinskaya also came up quite a lot in Wrexham there's a lot of Annas Anna Kalinskaya is the WTA Davidovich for Kina isn't she yes she she struggles to win titles despite being very good yeah you're going to like this detail Catherine Anna says I finally get the dog person thing as we just got a new puppy for the first time last year. I've never had a dog in my 47 years. He is the light of our lives. A mini golden doodle named Miles. I'm thinking of getting a pet mascot slot next year, says Anna.

1:26:08Oh, Anna, please. Oh, I'm so pleased. I'm so genuinely pleased for you that you have this joy in your life now. That's wonderful. Thank you, Anna. We've also got Michael Gross, who says, why make a tennis reference when it's much more fun to reference instead Michael Gross of Tremors fame? That was lost on me. Should I know Tremors? What is Tremors? Talk amongst yourselves while I Google. Michael Gross. I assume it's some sort of franchise. that Michael Gross is part of. It sounds like something that might be related to traitors. Michael Gross, an American television actor. Tremors seems to be a film from 1990.

1:27:00David.

1:27:04Natives of a small isolated town defend themselves against strange underground creatures which are killing them one by one. The poster is absolutely terrifying. I have heard of this, yeah. Yeah. But I haven't seen it. I mean, genuinely, I'm going to have to get rid of that tab because that photo is going to return in my nightmares. Thanks, Michael, for that. Michael is from San Francisco, and he has just sort of described himself as a tennis player, left-handed, as tall as John Isner, as graceful as Federer after a few tequilas, and as tactically challenged as Taylor Fritz any time he plays Novak Djokovic.

1:27:46I think you mean Adrian Manorino after a few tequilas Michael that was very good very good thank you Michael and finally we have Andrew Blakey from Auckland New Zealand and Andrew says last year in my shout out I mistakenly referred to the tennis podcast as my guilty pleasure which Catherine understandably took umbrage at

1:28:17Andrew says what I was trying to say is that it's my comfort blanket when life's getting tough yes oh that's far better Andrew thank you for for coming back to set the record he says I always have the wonderful professional cheerful and friendly voices of the pod to make things more bearable cheers Andrew that is a man that's trying to make up for mistakes past and consider it done, Andrew. That was lovely. Andrew, like Andrew Barron-Murray. That's a good answer. Enough said. Thank you ever so much, Michael, Anna and Andrew, our shout out to this week and of course Bianca, the wonderful, wonderful mascot for this week's show.

1:29:04We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you to Charlie Eccleshare for his time. We will be back on Friday with our preview of the WTA finals. Thank you for listening. We will speak to you then.